Tell me one fighter who actually beat Vitali....this guy gets no respect whatsoever. he was clearly beating Byrd before he had torn rotator cuff...he was clearly beating Lewis before fight was stopped for cuts...tell me one fighter who actually beat him.

does he look stiff? heck yes, he doesn't really look like a typical heavyweight champ...those nimble athletic fighters...but he is what he is: a technically sound fighter who fights with brain and power.

Is he the greatest heavyweight? no, but I think he is a pretty good champ at heavy.

the fact of the matter is that any heavyweight fighter can get in trouble with one punch...sure, Vitali looked shakey sometimes but I haven't seen a fight where he was losing yet.

some question his heart after quitting against Byrd...asking a boxer to fight with torn rotator cuff is like asking a pitcher to throw 95mph with blown elbow. it just is not possible.

I think Vitali will KO Williams in less than 5 rounds (yes, I was dead wrong about MAB v. Terrible but hey, we are dealing with different fighters here.)

oh have a day off mate with this constant spamming of your favourite fighters, he did lose to lewis check the bloody result.

then check the rules, then check the result again he lost.

he lost to byrd cos he retire in the 10th, he only had a round and a bit to go, a torn rotator cuff is not the most painful of injuries a boxer could suffer, trust me on this.

fighters have gone through much more and continued, Danny williams for one.

Vitali is a decent chap but please dont make out he gets no respect he gets plenty.

I'm a little sick of this nonsense about Vitali "not really losing".

He quit against Byrd (other fighters have been hurt worse than him, earlier in a fight, against GUYS THEIR OWN SIZE...& gone on).

His face was busted to bits by the FISTS of Lennox Lewis.
Tell me how that's "not real".

lewis dsetroyed him.

I agree with all three posts...how the **** is that possible? He has lost, but sometimes when you lose you really win and I think at least in the Lewis fight this is the case. I think Vitali is a decent champ, I think there is no question that he is better than Byrd or Ruiz...my hope is that Byrd, Ruiz, Rock, and all the other King boys are getting very tired of each other and know to be the true champion you have to beat Vitali...in the same respect Vitali needs to beat Byrd and Ruiz...these fights are only going to happen if King's kids get tired of fighting each other in his over hyped hw tourney's.

a torn rotator cuff is not the most painful of injuries a boxer could suffer, trust me on this.

fighters have gone through much more and continued,


You know nohing you limey ******! Quit trying to hype up a peice of **** Williams! Klitschko is going to detroy that British *******. He gonna hit him so hard Danny might start praying to Jesus instead of Allah :eek:

You know nohing you limey ******! Quit trying to hype up a peice of **** Williams! Klitschko is going to detroy that British *******. He gonna hit him so hard Danny might start praying to Jesus instead of Allah :eek:
Danny Williams is a muslim? If that is true then **** him, I hope Klitschko ends his career.

Tell me one fighter who actually beat Vitali....this guy gets no respect whatsoever. he was clearly beating Byrd before he had torn rotator cuff...he was clearly beating Lewis before fight was stopped for cuts...tell me one fighter who actually beat him.

does he look stiff? heck yes, he doesn't really look like a typical heavyweight champ...those nimble athletic fighters...but he is what he is: a technically sound fighter who fights with brain and power.

Is he the greatest heavyweight? no, but I think he is a pretty good champ at heavy.

the fact of the matter is that any heavyweight fighter can get in trouble with one punch...sure, Vitali looked shakey sometimes but I haven't seen a fight where he was losing yet.

some question his heart after quitting against Byrd...asking a boxer to fight with torn rotator cuff is like asking a pitcher to throw 95mph with blown elbow. it just is not possible.

I think Vitali will KO Williams in less than 5 rounds (yes, I was dead wrong about MAB v. Terrible but hey, we are dealing with different fighters here.)HAHAHAHAHAHAHA what a load of rubbish, tell me who he didnt get beat by, or who the fuk has fe fought that was good who didnt beat him...........rofl

Well he definetely lost to Lewis and Byrd. He had Lewis's number for 4 or 5 rounds but than doctor legitimately stopped on cuts(good call IMHO). So you cant say that he actually beat Lewis. Lewis had the opportunity to cut him and did so.Respect for Lewis.
It was not like one of the King type victories. In Byrd fight he quit and did the right thing.
You know its better to lose one day but than comeback another day than suffer a career ending injury. The only credit that Vitaly can get is that he looked good and fought his best.

I'm a little sick of this nonsense about Vitali "not really losing".

He quit against Byrd (other fighters have been hurt worse than him, earlier in a fight, against GUYS THEIR OWN SIZE...& gone on).

His face was busted to bits by the FISTS of Lennox Lewis.
Tell me how that's "not real".

I couldn't have said it better myself! So I won't.... :cool:

oh have a day off mate with this constant spamming of your favourite fighters, he did lose to lewis check the bloody result.

then check the rules, then check the result again he lost.

he lost to byrd cos he retire in the 10th, he only had a round and a bit to go, a torn rotator cuff is not the most painful of injuries a boxer could suffer, trust me on this.

fighters have gone through much more and continued, Danny williams for one.

Vitali is a decent chap but please dont make out he gets no respect he gets plenty.

Why don't you take a day off from spamming about how minor a torn rotator cuff is as well. I'm pretty sure I've already gone over this with you before.

I'm a little sick of this nonsense about Vitali "not really losing".

He quit against Byrd (other fighters have been hurt worse than him, earlier in a fight, against GUYS THEIR OWN SIZE...& gone on).

His face was busted to bits by the FISTS of Lennox Lewis.
Tell me how that's "not real".

Like who? Holyfield? A lot of good that did him. Now he can't even hold up his left arm or throw punches with it without being in tremendous pain. Try to use some common sense for once.

I am dealing with the same torn rotator cuff myself, although I did it lifting weights, but all the same, I have been dealing with it for about 10 months now, I just don't have the funds for the surgery right now, and I let my insurance laps last year because I never used it and thought it was a waste of my money!
It is a bit painful but nothing I can't handle....

I am dealing with the same torn rotator cuff myself, although I did it lifting weights, but all the same, I have been dealing with it for about 10 months now, I just don't have the funds for the surgery right now, and I let my insurance laps last year because I never used it and thought it was a waste of my money!
It is a bit painful but nothing I can't handle....

I guess you are just tougher than Holyfield and Vitali then. ;)

Like who? Holyfield? A lot of good that did him. Now he can't even hold up his left arm or throw punches with it without being in tremendous pain. Try to use some common sense for once.

Sorry, *******....

But Ty Biggs had his shoulder dislocated by a punch in the SECOND round against Jeff Simms.
He used only his left hand, & won a unaimous decision.

Jeff Fenech had both hands, & his cheekbone, broken by the SECOND round against Marcos Villasana.
Fenech not only went onto win a decision.....he threw an average of 100 punches a round.

Klit, quit. He only had a few rounds to go....against a SLAPPER....& he bailed.

Sorry, *******....

But Ty Biggs had his shoulder dislocated by a punch in the SECOND round against Jeff Simms.
He used only his left hand, & won a unaimous decision.

Jeff Fenech had both hands, & his cheekbone, broken by the SECOND round against Marcos Villasana.
Fenech not only went onto win a decision.....he threw an average of 100 punches a round.

Klit, quit. He only had a few rounds to go....against a SLAPPER....& he bailed.


Good post. Klit could have ran away for the last few rounds and still managed the decision if I'm not mistaken. I like Vitali but other fighters have eaten a lot more painful injuries and managed to grind out a win.

Good post. Klit could have ran away for the last few rounds and still managed the decision if I'm not mistaken. I like Vitali but other fighters have eaten a lot more painful injuries and managed to grind out a win.
That's true in fact Vitali's next opponent has done with a dislocated arm and still managed to score ko. If both guys injuretheir shoulders in the first round Williams is an overwhelming favourite :D

That's true in fact Vitali's next opponent has done with a dislocated arm and still managed to score ko. If both guys injuretheir shoulders in the first round Williams is an overwhelming favourite :D


Haha agreed. :D

in my view nobody can beat vitali and he is going to run over williams within 6 rounds

Tell me one fighter who actually beat Vitali....this guy gets no respect whatsoever. he was clearly beating Byrd before he had torn rotator cuff...he was clearly beating Lewis before fight was stopped for cuts...tell me one fighter who actually beat him.

does he look stiff? heck yes, he doesn't really look like a typical heavyweight champ...those nimble athletic fighters...but he is what he is: a technically sound fighter who fights with brain and power.

Is he the greatest heavyweight? no, but I think he is a pretty good champ at heavy.

the fact of the matter is that any heavyweight fighter can get in trouble with one punch...sure, Vitali looked shakey sometimes but I haven't seen a fight where he was losing yet.

some question his heart after quitting against Byrd...asking a boxer to fight with torn rotator cuff is like asking a pitcher to throw 95mph with blown elbow. it just is not possible.

I think Vitali will KO Williams in less than 5 rounds (yes, I was dead wrong about MAB v. Terrible but hey, we are dealing with different fighters here.)

VK, was doing good against LL but couldn't put him away, VK was done, LL was tattoo'ing that left side of his face, there was no way VK was going to make 2 more rounds. yes he was ahead on the score cards after 6 but remember a fight is 12 rounds, just ask McCline or Moorer.

oh yeah VK is underrated. he is a very good fighter and will do good, although i don't think he can get past fighters like Rahman, Toney, Ruiz and Brewster. yes i said brewster. now this guy is truly underrated

VK, was doing good against LL but couldn't put him away, VK was done, LL was tattoo'ing that left side of his face, there was no way VK was going to make 2 more rounds. yes he was ahead on the score cards after 6 but remember a fight is 12 rounds, just ask McCline or Moorer.

Cmon, that fight was 100% up in the air...apparently you did not watch Lewis go back to his corner in the sixth...if you did you would have seen that he was just as done as VK was. I am not defending VK, all I am saying is that fight was clearly on the table...it was anybodys fight. Lewis barely made it on the stool, sprawled out with his ass barely catching part of the stewl, he was not going to be able to fight much longer...neither was VK-they both were through which would have made for a very interesting finish!

But too say that LL was in control is not the truth, watch the fight again and if you already have watch it again...you are certainly missing the whole story. Great1 this is non negotiable, watch the ****in fight again!

I think Vitali is a little underrated right now but he needs to prove himself as champ... I think he will.

Cmon, that fight was 100% up in the air...apparently you did not watch Lewis go back to his corner in the sixth...if you did you would have seen that he was just as done as VK was. I am not defending VK, all I am saying is that fight was clearly on the table...it was anybodys fight. Lewis barely made it on the stool, sprawled out with his ass barely catching part of the stewl, he was not going to be able to fight much longer...neither was VK-they both were through which would have made for a very interesting finish!

But too say that LL was in control is not the truth, watch the fight again and if you already have watch it again...you are certainly missing the whole story. Great1 this is non negotiable, watch the ****in fight again!

I have seen the fight a few times, how can you jump on me for saying LL was going to win, but not comment on everyone who says VK was about to win. IMO i think LL would have pulled it off, VK couldn't see out of his left eye, and was getting tagged there, his whole left side even his lip was beat the **** up, I think LL was landing the harder punches, and no matter how many times i watch the fight i will still beleive that.

i cant see how anyone can say brewster is underrated... brewster lost to shufford and etienne, was getting his ass kicked by wlad and barely beat that BUM, meehan..... brewster is VERY lucky to have signed with king or we'd never hear from him...

I feel Vitali is also underrated actually. He definitely held his ground vs Lewis after many were saying he'd have no chance due to his awkward style. Though look what happened. Until that cut opened up, he was bombing Lewis and winning on all the scorecards. Being cut open by a punch regardless of whether it was directly by the punch or a piece of the glove that slit it open from the side, doesn't mean he was dominated ladies. It's a simple thing that can happen out of the blue when you least expect it. I don't consider Lewis landing 1 punch that might of caused the cut or not to be considered the reason why Lewis is so good. Get real.
About his heart. Do you think a man that was undefeated, winning on all scorecards, had 1 or 2 rounds to go, would quit just because he broken a nail? Get real, it had to hurt, he has a PHD, he knows what the result would be if he continued. Either stop now, and walk away with something that can be recovered or continue and cause further injury to end career. That's just something smart on his part whether you ignorant fans can understand or not. Of course the smart fans understand it as well.

i cant see how anyone can say brewster is underrated... brewster lost to shufford and etienne, was getting his ass kicked by wlad and barely beat that BUM, meehan..... brewster is VERY lucky to have signed with king or we'd never hear from him...

He beat Meehan, KO'd wlad as for etienne he his a good fighter with alot of heart just not a great chin. i mean the guy has only lost 2 fights, and most of his wins are by KO, heart goes a long way.

Sorry, *******....

But Ty Biggs had his shoulder dislocated by a punch in the SECOND round against Jeff Simms.
He used only his left hand, & won a unaimous decision.

Jeff Fenech had both hands, & his cheekbone, broken by the SECOND round against Marcos Villasana.
Fenech not only went onto win a decision.....he threw an average of 100 punches a round.

Klit, quit. He only had a few rounds to go....against a SLAPPER....& he bailed.

Since you don't seem to know much about medicine or injuries here you go. http://www.myhealth24.com

Torn rotator cuff (18 weeks): For serious injuries, the prognosis is usually good, some six weeks of physical therapy being required following surgery. Full recovery may take several more months. In some cases, the injury is so severe that it requires tendon grafts and muscle transfers. A severe injury is not repairable.

Dislocated shoulder (2 weeks): After the dislocation has been corrected, the joint may require immobilization with a cast or sling for two to eight weeks.

Broken Bone (6 weeks): It usually takes about six weeks for a broken bone to heal together.

And if scientific facts aren't enough for you, just take a look at their records before and after their injuries.

Biggs: before 8-0; after 21-10

Fenech: before 22-0; after 5-3-1

Vitali: before 27-0; after 7-1

Hmmmm, who has done the best since their injury?

He beat Meehan, KO'd wlad as for etienne he his a good fighter with alot of heart just not a great chin. i mean the guy has only lost 2 fights, and most of his wins are by KO, heart goes a long way.


exactly... he beat meehan, who the hell is meehan?nobody..... he lost to etienne, the guy tyson and fres killed... he lost shufford, the guy wlad and mccline KO'd... he did beat wlad, but in MUCH less impressive fashion then sanders did... brewster sucks

Yes he has 2losses, against Byrd he gave upp allthough he was whoping Byrds ass, had he continued the fight it could have ruined his carer.

Against LL he won 1,2,4 and 6 round.
LL collapsed on the way to his dressing room.

The thing is he has never been beaten upp ore been outboxed.

36 he has like 36 bouts and he has never lost by anything else than 1 injury caused by bad luck and on caused by cheating (yes i mean LL and no a forehead is not the same as a fist).

Untill someone knocks him out ore beats him by points he has my full support.

I have seen the fight a few times, how can you jump on me for saying LL was going to win, but not comment on everyone who says VK was about to win. IMO i think LL would have pulled it off, VK couldn't see out of his left eye, and was getting tagged there, his whole left side even his lip was beat the **** up, I think LL was landing the harder punches, and no matter how many times i watch the fight i will still beleive that.

All right I am sorry for jumping on you, but here's the deal, any VK fan who says he was going to win the fight is saying so because thats the result they want, same goes for people who say that LL was going to win. The fight was on the table, niether guy had the advantage...I too thought Lennox might have a slight nod going into the final six rounds until I saw him hit his stool, the guy was thru(so was VK). We may have very well seen a Rocky Balboa/Apollo Creed double knock down if the fight had continued...

Since you don't seem to know much about medicine or injuries here you go. http://www.myhealth24.com

Torn rotator cuff (18 weeks): For serious injuries, the prognosis is usually good, some six weeks of physical therapy being required following surgery. Full recovery may take several more months. In some cases, the injury is so severe that it requires tendon grafts and muscle transfers. A severe injury is not repairable.

Dislocated shoulder (2 weeks): After the dislocation has been corrected, the joint may require immobilization with a cast or sling for two to eight weeks.



Broken Bone (6 weeks): It usually takes about six weeks for a broken bone to heal together.

And if scientific facts aren't enough for you, just take a look at their records before and after their injuries.

Biggs: before 8-0; after 21-10

Fenech: before 22-0; after 5-3-1

Vitali: before 27-0; after 7-1

Hmmmm, who has done the best since their injury?

Boy o Boy looks like I may have to really step up my game with posts like this...****...research, I don't know weather or not too think thats gay or thats impressive....I will give you the benefit...I'm impressed. At the very least you have dug up some interesting information...this is one of those insightful posts that I would expect out of ToneyTucker, thanks for the history lesson your info if correct is intruiging.

I was thinking about saying something about Brewster, but I think enough has been said already. As for you idiots who think VK isn't the best heavyweight in the world... you're lying to yourselves. So he got cut by Lewis, yeah, he lost, and Lewis DID beat him. But where's the big Brit these days??? His tapout with that rotator cuff injury, we'll never know what kind of pain he was in, rotator cuff injuries are weird, the pain depends on where the tear is and how severe it is, so I'll give the 6 foot whatever 200some lb DOCTOR the benefit of the doubt when were talking clinical diagnosis of a sports related injury... Ruiz is the only man that has a shot at taking down the giant, and judging by the way he looked a few weeks ago, I forsee another Kirk Johnson type fight in the making. VK is one of the smartest, hardest hitting heavyweights around right now, mix that in with his long arm style of pummelling men into the ground, you've got an UNDISPUTED HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION OF THE WORLD.

Witter the Hitter!

i feel u on that

i feel u on that


Rick Reeno....please ban this loser.

He beat Meehan, KO'd wlad as for etienne he his a good fighter with alot of heart just not a great chin. i mean the guy has only lost 2 fights, and most of his wins are by KO, heart goes a long way.

Yeah, Clifford has tons of heart, and a bad temper too! You know, he actually went undefeated in prison, so his actual record would be something like 55-2-2 !

By the way, guys, I know my shoulder will require surgery, so says the doc, but I'm telling you, the pain is only bad in the mornings, and whenever I lift something wrong. There seems to be a point that during the lift I feel a stabbing pain on what feels like the top of shoulder joint itself. And as I type this, there is a bit of pain in the back of my arm in between the joint and the shoulder blade itself. -- O.K. -- my arm is pretty ****ed up -- I admit it. The doc said the tear will stay the way it is or perhaps worsen just a bit, but it isn't going to heal itself. Like I said I have had this thing for 10 months! It sucks....

Neuraxis....

Your numbers mean nothing to me.

One number does matter.....Round 2.
The fact that both the guys I noted sustained injuries THAT EARLY, yet fought their HEARTS out to win.....matters far more than the recovery time for each injury.

& please....don't ever dream to compare V. Klit to Jeff Fenech.
Fenech had THREE injuries, compared to Vit's ONE.
Fenech, is a great fighter. Klit, is just a good one.


All of your numerolgy, & talk of linear champs, shows me that you READ more than you think. Shows me don't really know the nuances of boxing.

Rick Reeno....please ban this loser.


:D

Anyway Vitali is not really under rated . . .infact he is getting a lot of respect but he needs to establish his dominance inside that ring over his opponents . . . accept it or not the guy was injured and it affected him . . . his performance . . . 2 or 3 dominating performance against top contenders should "pump his name up". We will see how his career will turn up and he will be accorded due respect.

Neuraxis....

Your numbers mean nothing to me.

One number does matter.....Round 2.
The fact that both the guys I noted sustained injuries THAT EARLY, yet fought their HEARTS out to win.....matters far more than the recovery time for each injury.

& please....don't ever dream to compare V. Klit to Jeff Fenech.
Fenech had THREE injuries, compared to Vit's ONE.
Fenech, is a great fighter. Klit, is just a good one.


All of your numerolgy, & talk of linear champs, shows me that you READ more than you think. Shows me don't really know the nuances of boxing.

Wake up dude. Ask any doctor which injury is the most serious for long term effects. Just admit that you are wrong.

I don't care which injury is more serious.

Fact is....all of them hurt, & hurt badly.

The big difference here is WHEN these injuries occurred.

Your hero could not operate through the pain. These other guys could.

I don't care which injury is more serious.

Fact is....all of them hurt, & hurt badly.

The big difference here is WHEN these injuries occurred.

Your hero could not operate through the pain. These other guys could.

You still don't get it. This is like trying to have a discusion with SDW.

you know, as bad as the heavywieght division is, imagine what it would be like without VK... what would the big fight be??? byrd vs ruiz???

even if you dont like VK, you have admit that he's the one bright spot in an otherwise dismal division... his fights with lewis, sanders and KJ were by far more entertaining then any fights of ruiz, rahman and brewster

You still don't get it. This is like trying to have a discusion with SDW.


No....YOU don't get it.


You are using something tangible, in a debate over an intangible.

Do you honestly believe it takes more heart to QUIT, with a single injury sustained late in a fight...than it does to repeatedly slam BOTH of your broken fists into a man's body & head, while taking punches & head butts to your broken cheekbone ?


You are hopeless....& still, the most limited poster on this board.

IMHO he is very underrated by some and definetely overrated by others. Some posters say that he is a noheart no talent bum that should not even be boxing but they dont give an alternative fighter who is better or more fun to watch(i mean right now). Others are trying to defend him and while doing so they get verrrry annoying. i think that next saturday
will answer a lot of questions(but not all of them) judging on how many people are favouring DW.

Neuraxis is in love with vitali, every time vitali is under scrutiny he jumps to his defense, we all will see just how good he is on the 11th, i think williams will definitly stand in there and test that chin!

Here is a sample of an article regarding Vitali and Lewis. Even though I like Lewis, after reading this I do have to question his ballsack a little bit.




[Klitschko overcame that moment of (mechanical) failure by earning a crack at Lennox Lewis in June of 2003. Thinking they knew Klitschko based on the worst moment of his career, most everyone gave Vitali no chance to win the title. Even though Lewis publically mocked Klitschko's ability, what slipped by the public perception was the reality that Lewis privately had broken three contracts to fight Vitali.

Today this crucially important, smoking gun of a truth is still not fully realized, so let me present the exact words of Peter Kohl to *************.com in December of 2002: "(Lewis-Klitschko) was settled originally for the 8th of December (2002)," Kohl told me. "And Lewis has the chance to change the fight to February. And that was his possibility. And he changed the fight to February. And then he came in December and said, Oh no, we will not do the fight in February. We will do it definitely in April. Adrian Ogun (Lewis manager) came to Hamburg and said the deal was done for April. And still Vitali was not fighting (he was waiting to fight Lewis). Then we get a letter saying Lennox would give a direct rematch to Mike Tyson in June (Tyson eventually rejected that opportunity). Lennox had four times to fight Vitali. And he didn't do it. And with your open mind - it's not the money - we have the signed deal. The deal was perfect. 52 times the contracts are changing from my lawyers to (Lewis's lawyer) Judd Burstein and back - 52 times! So the contract was done. But they didn't do it. Ask yourself, Does Lennox Lewis want to fight Vitali or not? Four times he could fight Vitali.]"

Lewis did not want to fight with Vitali...?
Probably Lewis only did not want to risk?

"oh have a day off mate with this constant spamming of your favourite fighters, he did lose to lewis check the bloody result.

then check the rules, then check the result again he lost.

he lost to byrd cos he retire in the 10th, he only had a round and a bit to go, a torn rotator cuff is not the most painful of injuries a boxer could suffer, trust me on this.

fighters have gone through much more and continued, Danny williams for one.

Vitali is a decent chap but please dont make out he gets no respect he gets plenty."


I agree totally. He gets plenty of props and a loss is a loss.

he is not underrated he is just the top of a really bad bunch. But the Sanders fights didn't suggest that he is underrated in any way.

By that logic, someone like Joe Calzaghe is really underrated cause he is the best in a poor division!

I Don't think he is underrated in the sense of the HW division not being very strong right now.

You know nohing you limey ******! Quit trying to hype up a peice of **** Williams! Klitschko is going to detroy that British *******. He gonna hit him so hard Danny might start praying to Jesus instead of Allah :eek:


Are you still here i thought id dealt with you via pm and your bigotry.


get a life you silly little man.