View Full Version : What ATG Heavyweights Do You Think A Prime Earnie Shavers Could Beat?


Southpaw16BF
01-16-2010, 03:17 PM
Is there any ATG Heavyweight you think Earnie Shavers could beat? Name him and give reason why you think Earnie beat's him!

Method Checker
01-16-2010, 03:31 PM
Floyd Patterson. He didn't have a good chin and Shavers would've taken advantage of it.

Southpaw16BF
01-16-2010, 03:36 PM
Floyd Patterson. He didn't have a good chin and Shavers would've taken advantage of it.

Great pick!

tuxtucis
01-16-2010, 03:42 PM
Maybe if was in L'Avana 1915, he would have beaten post prime Jack Johnson, like Jess Willard did...

Southpaw16BF
01-16-2010, 03:43 PM
Maybe if was in L'Avana 1915, he would have beaten post prime Jack Johnson, like Jess Willard did...

Did you upload Tiger vs Benvanuti on U Tube?

Floid Fan
01-16-2010, 04:51 PM
Anyone who moved forward as their primary way of fighting would get destroyed by Shavers. This includes Dempsey, Marciano, Frazier, Foreman, Tyson, and yes Patterson.

JAB5239
01-16-2010, 04:54 PM
Maybe if was in L'Avana 1915, he would have beaten post prime Jack Johnson, like Jess Willard did...

Nah, Shavers couldn't go 26 rounds in 3 fights let alone 1. :lol1:

Joey Giardello
01-16-2010, 04:58 PM
I think he would have a good chance against dempsey, if firpo can drop and hurt demsey shavers can keep him hurt

JAB5239
01-16-2010, 05:01 PM
I think he would have a good chance against dempsey, if firpo can drop and hurt demsey shavers can keep him hurt

At the same time, quarry blitzed Shavers and took him out quick. It wouldn't be a stretch to think Dempsey could do the same.

Joey Giardello
01-16-2010, 06:04 PM
At the same time, quarry blitzed Shavers and took him out quick. It wouldn't be a stretch to think Dempsey could do the same.

Of couse if i had to pick a winner it would be jack all day long, but the thread starter asked which all time!! great heavyweight earnie would have a chance against so i went with jack. I noticed some one put floyd patterson, floyd was a good fighter, but not a all time great heavyweight, and yes jack could do what quarry did to shavers, flip the coin and shavers could do what firpo did against dempsey only better! keeping dempsey down for the count

JAB5239
01-16-2010, 06:08 PM
Of couse if i had to pick a winner it would be jack all day long, but the thread starter asked which all time!! great heavyweight earnie would have a chance against so i went with jack. I noticed some one put floyd patterson, floyd was a good fighter, but not a all time great heavyweight, and yes jack could do what quarry did to shavers, flip the coin and shavers could do what firpo did against dempsey only better! keeping dempsey down for the count

I thought about this after I sent my post. Didn't mean to come of argumentative, as you have made valid points.

Joey Giardello
01-16-2010, 07:03 PM
I thought about this after I sent my post. Didn't mean to come of argumentative, as you have made valid points.

no problem dude

Sugarj
01-16-2010, 08:36 PM
Earnie would have a punchers chance against any heavyweight, ATG or not. We know that Ali and Holmes were seriously troubled by his power but prevailed, but these guys had amazing chins.

Earnie didn't have an amazing chin though and his distance stamina was a little suspect, obviously Jerry Quarry bombed him out in one, but he may well have won a return. Earnie was a bit green before 1975 in my opinion, for me he peaked in 1977.

I would say that many superior ATG heavyweights who could have been conceivably beaten by Earnie's sheer power (or a lucky right hand!!!) would probably have won return bouts. Joe Louis, Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Joe Frazier and Lennox Lewis fall into this category. All these guys were stopped by heavyweights with arguably less power than Earnie, some with single shots!

sonnyboyx2
01-17-2010, 12:13 AM
Earnie would have a punchers chance against any heavyweight, ATG or not. We know that Ali and Holmes were seriously troubled by his power but prevailed, but these guys had amazing chins.

Earnie didn't have an amazing chin though and his distance stamina was a little suspect, obviously Jerry Quarry bombed him out in one, but he may well have won a return. Earnie was a bit green before 1975 in my opinion, for me he peaked in 1977.

I would say that many superior ATG heavyweights who could have been conceivably beaten by Earnie's sheer power (or a lucky right hand!!!) would probably have won return bouts. Joe Louis, Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Joe Frazier and Lennox Lewis fall into this category. All these guys were stopped by heavyweights with arguably less power than Earnie, some with single shots!

i disagree with everything you say... Jerry Quarry had a chin made of granite and would have beaten Shavers in any return fight... when Quarry fought Shavers, Earnie had fought 50 fights so was well schooled at his trade and in his prime...Joe Louis, Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Joe Frazier and Lennox Lewis would all destroy Shavers, i dont give Shavers a hope of beating any of them... the same goes for Floyd Patterson who would completely destroy Shavers... Shavers had very little boxing abilty and a weak chin, his KO victories was over a bunch of tomato-cans... all the rubbish about Shavers being the hardest puncher ever, yet who did he KO?... both Holmes & Ali claimed Shavers was the hardest puncher simply because Shavers put them on the deck and was very overly respectful to them in the post-fight interviews..Shavers was on the level of Peter McNeally & Duane Bobick

mickey malone
01-17-2010, 12:38 AM
I don't think Shavers beats any of the ATG's tbh.. Holmes being one of them, recovered from his best shot.. We saw what he could do when backed up by Quarry and Lyle, and although he KO'd Young and Norton, none of these fighters fall into the ATG category..
As said a million times b4, Earnie had a great 'punchers' chance against any man put infront of him, but over a long and hard career against an abundance of quality, he always displayed serial stamina & chin issues, which in my opinion, takes him out of the equation on this one..

GJC
01-17-2010, 08:19 AM
Jerry Quarry had a chin made of granite and would have beaten Shavers in any return fight... when Quarry fought Shavers, Earnie had fought 50 fights so was well schooled at his trade and in his prime

Don't argue that Quarry had the measure of Shavers but would make the point that whilst Earnie had 50 fights he probably only had 10 fights worth of rounds if you know what I mean.
Don't think Shavers ever got too well schooled in his craft because the fights ended pretty quickly one way or other, he always struck me as naive at times in the ring, maybe as a result of this.


Shavers was on the level of Peter McNeally & Duane Bobick

Think that is a bit harsh Sonny to be honest

BritishBoxing92
01-17-2010, 09:01 AM
Is there any ATG Heavyweight you think Earnie Shavers could beat? Name him and give reason why you think Earnie beat's him!

jerry quarry maybe?? was easily cut by fighters like ali etc

TheGreatA
01-17-2010, 09:31 AM
Don't argue that Quarry had the measure of Shavers but would make the point that whilst Earnie had 50 fights he probably only had 10 fights worth of rounds if you know what I mean.
Don't think Shavers ever got too well schooled in his craft because the fights ended pretty quickly one way or other, he always struck me as naive at times in the ring, maybe as a result of this.

He had only fought one opponent on the level of Quarry at that point, Jimmy Ellis, and that fight only went one round. I don't think Shavers had even taken too many punches on the chin at that point, despite all his fights he was not yet prepared for a motivated Jerry Quarry.

You'd be correct that Shavers was never truly well-schooled. He had Archie Moore teaching him early on but then other trainers took over and focused on the one thing he already possessed, his strength and his punching power, not the skill or the stamina.

Late in his career Shavers developed a decent jab but he was already past his physical prime then.

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Sugarj
01-17-2010, 10:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugarj
Earnie would have a punchers chance against any heavyweight, ATG or not. We know that Ali and Holmes were seriously troubled by his power but prevailed, but these guys had amazing chins.

Earnie didn't have an amazing chin though and his distance stamina was a little suspect, obviously Jerry Quarry bombed him out in one, but he may well have won a return. Earnie was a bit green before 1975 in my opinion, for me he peaked in 1977.

I would say that many superior ATG heavyweights who could have been conceivably beaten by Earnie's sheer power (or a lucky right hand!!!) would probably have won return bouts. Joe Louis, Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Joe Frazier and Lennox Lewis fall into this category. All these guys were stopped by heavyweights with arguably less power than Earnie, some with single shots!


Sonnyboyx reply

'i disagree with everything you say... Jerry Quarry had a chin made of granite and would have beaten Shavers in any return fight... when Quarry fought Shavers, Earnie had fought 50 fights so was well schooled at his trade and in his prime...Joe Louis, Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Joe Frazier and Lennox Lewis would all destroy Shavers, i dont give Shavers a hope of beating any of them... the same goes for Floyd Patterson who would completely destroy Shavers... Shavers had very little boxing abilty and a weak chin, his KO victories was over a bunch of tomato-cans... all the rubbish about Shavers being the hardest puncher ever, yet who did he KO?... both Holmes & Ali claimed Shavers was the hardest puncher simply because Shavers put them on the deck and was very overly respectful to them in the post-fight interviews..Shavers was on the level of Peter McNeally & Duane Bobick'



My reply

'Well we cant agree on everything can we? ha ha'

To some folks it seems heresy to even suggest that an ATG might be beaten by so flawed a contender as Shavers. I dont think he is as good as any of the guys I've listed, but its dangerous to write off any one who can punch as hard as Earnie. I rate him higher than Gallento, McCall and Rahman who may be termed 'punch lucky'.

As for Quarry, I know you are a big fan so i can understand you being a bit heated at my post. Jerry was a great fighter, with alot of grit. For me he falls into the 'good contender' category. That said Shavers does too. Knockouts over Ellis, Young and Norton are hard to dismiss. He was far better in the late 70s than in what 72/73 when he fought Jerry. He certainly did much better jobs over Ellis and Norton than Quarry did. Also Jerry never looked remotely effective against Ali in two fights. The Ali that showed up for Shavers boxed very well, it was Ali's last great performance and Shaver's stamina held up well that night.

I guess we're just going to have to disagree on this one. Both good contenders for me.

GJC
01-17-2010, 10:23 AM
Quote:
The Ali that showed up for Shavers boxed very well, it was Ali's last great performance and Shaver's stamina held up well that night.



Agreed re Shavers stamina although I think he maybe concentrated on pacing himself too much and might have been better to go sh#t or bust

Joey Giardello
01-17-2010, 01:55 PM
All this talk of jerry quarry makes me think he belongs in the ibhf the guy was a hard nut back in the day, there are even stories he beat up a prime george foreman in sparring!

Sugarj
01-17-2010, 05:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugarj
Quote:
The Ali that showed up for Shavers boxed very well, it was Ali's last great performance and Shaver's stamina held up well that night.

GJC said
'Agreed re Shavers stamina although I think he maybe concentrated on pacing himself too much and might have been better to go sh#t or bust'


My reply
'I guess so. Ali properly kidded Earnie out of thinking that he wasn't in trouble in round two when he clearly was.' I suppose Ali's chin was so well tested that it would have been a big gamble for even a murderous puncher like Earnie. Bless him, he gave it a good go and got a title shot against Holmes for his effort...........nearly came punch lucky there too!