http://www.fitnessandfreebies.com/health/top18.html
http://life.familyeducation.com/weight-lifting/exercise/48807.html

I often though lifting weights just made you go big etc and tired you out quicker. But the more research i have been doing, how wrong I was.

There are so many benifets to lifting weights.

Is anyone still against boxers lifting them and if so state reason why you are against it.

every sport goes trough weightlifting

weightlifitng is good because it strengthens you.

to much weight lifting can cut your stamina out severely, even slow you down a bit.

that's only when a lightweight does it to try and put on 20 lbs of muscle.

You can tell guys like "houston alexander" of the ufc, they don't belong at 205, the muscle is a hinderance to them but they only care about showing off the tough guy image. We saw him on sports science, he punches like a girl multiple weight classes below him (not even kidding) and with out this magical "rage power" he used he had nothing.

We can even see the weight effecting Manny Pacquiaos stamina, however he's still to good for anyone at WW.

you'll get better results through calisthenics, you'll get more ripped, plus built a more athletic body

weight lifting is overrated and should only be utilized when you want to put more weight, for optimum performance, body weight is simply the best

There's nothing wrong with lifting weights... You just need a "purpose" for lifting the weight. I see a TON of guys who call themselves fighters (boxing, muay thai, even mma) with useless muscle. Even the pro's with useless muscle. It really just depends on your purpose for lifting weights.

I think people are against lifting weights because it simply sounds cooler to say "i dont lift weights" and have muscle and look completely ripped. They wont say it, instead they will have some dumb reason for it(like the guy above), but really thats all it is. Just my two cents.

I find it way more exhilarating and feel much better going through pull-ups or pushups, just feel like I've worked much harder than I feel after lifting weights, can't say I'm a fan of weights

There's nothing wrong with lifting weights... You just need a "purpose" for lifting the weight. I see a TON of guys who call themselves fighters (boxing, muay thai, even mma) with useless muscle. Even the pro's with useless muscle. It really just depends on your purpose for lifting weights.

I think people are against lifting weights because it simply sounds cooler to say "i dont lift weights" and have muscle and look completely ripped. They wont say it, instead they will have some dumb reason for it(like the guy above), but really thats all it is. Just my two cents.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4hymdWd0PiM&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4hymdWd0PiM&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

so you think you'll get a more athletic(body built for performance) through lifting some weights instead of just getting your body balanced out through calisthenics?
come on man, it's pretty simple stuff

but whether im gettin through to you or not, just enjoy the vid, starting at 2:29, the man has power

you'll get better results through calisthenics, you'll get more ripped, plus built a more athletic body

weight lifting is overrated and should only be utilized when you want to put more weight, for optimum performance, body weight is simply the best

http://i46.tinypic.com/wus6z8.gif

What are you reporting from the 1950's?

Get with the times and stop with the disinformation.

http://www.fitnessandfreebies.com/health/top18.html
http://life.familyeducation.com/weight-lifting/exercise/48807.html

I often though lifting weights just made you go big etc and tired you out quicker. But the more research i have been doing, how wrong I was.

There are so many benifets to lifting weights.

Is anyone still against boxers lifting them and if so state reason why you are against it.

not against it but most of those reasons have nothing to do with lifting fyi....

http://www.fitnessandfreebies.com/health/top18.html
http://life.familyeducation.com/weight-lifting/exercise/48807.html

I often though lifting weights just made you go big etc and tired you out quicker. But the more research i have been doing, how wrong I was.

There are so many benifets to lifting weights.

Is anyone still against boxers lifting them and if so state reason why you are against it.

that is the biggest misconception in boxing. Im glad you realized this, it always amazes me how ignorant some modern boxers and boxing trainers are on weight lifting.

low weights high reps.

low weights high reps.

http://i45.tinypic.com/esp010.jpg

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4hymdWd0PiM&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4hymdWd0PiM&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

so you think you'll get a more athletic(body built for performance) through lifting some weights instead of just getting your body balanced out through calisthenics?
come on man, it's pretty simple stuff

but whether im gettin through to you or not, just enjoy the vid, starting at 2:29, the man has power

Well I bet these ugly chubbas could do similiar and they are not muscular like that guy (and genetics is always overlooked as well). But anyway who gives a ****, what you wanna be able to do is box and knock out mother****ers no acrobatics
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9RAFtyE2OWo&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9RAFtyE2OWo&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Well I bet these ugly chubbas could do similiar and they are not muscular like that guy (and genetics is always overlooked as well). But anyway who gives a ****, what you wanna be able to do is box and knock out mother****ers no acrobatics
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9RAFtyE2OWo&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9RAFtyE2OWo&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

that was no acrobatics your fool :nonono:

the guy shows perfect balance, lets see how many weight lifters can do the types of pullups and pushups these guys do.....they would'nt be able to, because weight lifting will only work out so many muscles at once, calisthenics works out everything
it's better for boxing

that was no acrobatics your fool :nonono:

the guy shows perfect balance, lets see how many weight lifters can do the types of pullups and pushups these guys do.....they would'nt be able to, because weight lifting will only work out so many muscles at once, calisthenics works out everything
it's better for boxing

You're an idiot. Have you ever heard of Compound and Olympic Lifts?

oh and....

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z4Lq7Et_P5k&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z4Lq7Et_P5k&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uDUduI2t0Tw&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uDUduI2t0Tw&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


oh and how about Cowboy's Fullback Deon Anderson Styling on your stupid ass

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4A0ZiZwAgOM&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4A0ZiZwAgOM&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

did you even watch the video i posted? what the **** does that have on it you stupid mother****er? what the **** does being able to lift a big load of **** have on being atheltic, explosive and not being out of fuel in a matter of seconds? weight lifting is practically useless for boxing, it's only use is buidling muscles, your a ****in dopey ****er if you think otherwise, stupid cunt

watch the video i posted you thick ****, no watch all the videos on that guys page, go find another calisthenics page on youtube and watch those videos and see what a dopey retarded, useless piece of **** you are to this world and then off yourself for being such an ignorant, clueless bastard

did you even watch the video i posted? what the **** does that have on it you stupid mother****er? what the **** does being able to lift a big load of **** have on being atheltic, explosive and not being out of fuel in a matter of seconds? weight lifting is practically useless for boxing, it's only use is buidling muscles, your a ****in dopey ****er if you think otherwise, stupid cunt

watch the video i posted you thick ****, no watch all the videos on that guys page, go find another calisthenics page on youtube and watch those videos and see what a dopey retarded, useless piece of **** you are to this world and then off yourself for being such an ignorant, clueless bastard

I'm clueless? Riiight. You think the guy in the video you posted hanging off of those bars never touched free weights? Are you kidding me?

You have to be the most naive person I think I've ever encountered here in this section.

Do you have any evidence that weight lifting's only use is for building muscle or are you just talking out of your ass.

You seem to think that weightlifting= bodybuilding. Which is what is ignorant here.

Plenty of boxers lift weights, plenty of athletes (from numerous sports) lift weights, if volleyball players and javelin throwers can find use for weights, anybody who participates in an athletic even can find use for them.

Have you looked at Crossfit? I'd LOVE to see you keep up with those guys' routines. You'd be puking up your lung in a matter of minutes.

You obviously have no idea what you are spewing and your profanity laced tirade is only making you look even more foolish since you have yet to provide a single shred of evidence to support your claims.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4hymdWd0PiM&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4hymdWd0PiM&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

@ 4:00

what bodybuilder can do that?
you can use a little resistance while doin a body work out
it's still calisthenics
but if your lying on a bench workin your biceps, sitting on a chair working your calfs
this **** is useless performance wise, it's useless size, you have strenght alone and lose kinetic linking, your getting outta balance

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4hymdWd0PiM&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4hymdWd0PiM&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

@ 4:00

what bodybuilder can do that?
you can use a little resistance while doin a body work out
it's still calisthenics
but if your lying on a bench workin your biceps, sitting on a chair working your calfs
this **** is useless performance wise, it's useless size, you have strenght alone and lose kinetic linking, your getting outta balance


Again, let me replace your ignorance with knowledge.

You seem to think that the only purpose for weight lifting is building muscle. But that is anything but true and in fact it is ****ing laughable.

Again, let me replace your ignorance with knowledge.

You seem to think that the only purpose for weight lifting is building muscle. But that is anything but true and in fact it is ****ing laughable.

okay, what other use is it? are you gonna be faster? your gonna get stronger? oh yea, but your also gonna get slower, your also gonna get bigger, your also gonna lose some flexibility, so tell me man, what other use is it?

if i wanna be a boxer, not a bodybuilder, what use is me doin bench presses, leg lifts or w/e the **** it's called

if i dont wanna be a robotic boxer, what use is weight lifting, if i wanna build strenght on my arms, doin one arm pushups is gonna do alot more than bench presses, it'll work out my whole body, and it'll make my arms stronger, and i wont lose any of my natural speed

are you gonna be faster? your gonna get stronger? oh yea, but your also gonna get slower

Okay how contradictory is this? Really? You just killed your argument with this statement.

You can lift weights without getting bigger. How big you get depends SO much more on how much you eat, than how much you lift.



your also gonna get bigger, your also gonna lose some flexibility, so tell me man, what other use is it?

If you neglect flexibility entirely then yes you will lose flexibility, but in any case weight lifting can increase flexibility.

If you think bodybuilders aren't flexible, look at the 2009 Arnold Classic Champion, Kai Greene. He can do full splits and he's gigantic.



if i wanna be a boxer, not a bodybuilder, what use is me doin bench presses, leg lifts or w/e the **** it's called

Again, since you seem to have a thick skull, not all weight lifting means being a bodybuilder. But for a boxer, I think Oly Lifting would be very beneficial to a boxer.

if i dont wanna be a robotic boxer, what use is weight lifting, if i wanna build strenght on my arms, doin one arm pushups is gonna do alot more than bench presses, it'll work out my whole body, and it'll make my arms stronger, and i wont lose any of my natural speed

Being boxer, arm strength is irrelevant anyway. You aren't arm wrestling are you?

Bench Presses, specifically CG Bench will definitely strengthen your arms better than arm push-ups because you aren't restricted to using just your bodyweight.

I'm clueless? Riiight. You think the guy in the video you posted hanging off of those bars never touched free weights? Are you kidding me?

You have to be the most naive person I think I've ever encountered here in this section.

Do you have any evidence that weight lifting's only use is for building muscle or are you just talking out of your ass.

You seem to think that weightlifting= bodybuilding. Which is what is ignorant here.

Plenty of boxers lift weights, plenty of athletes (from numerous sports) lift weights, if volleyball players and javelin throwers can find use for weights, anybody who participates in an athletic even can find use for them.

Have you looked at Crossfit? I'd LOVE to see you keep up with those guys' routines. You'd be puking up your lung in a matter of minutes.

You obviously have no idea what you are spewing and your profanity laced tirade is only making you look even more foolish since you have yet to provide a single shred of evidence to support your claims.

Name some me, dude!

Hatton lifts weights...

moving up a weight class is an example of why to lift heavy, if youre trying to put on muscle.

you'll get better results through calisthenics, you'll get more ripped, plus built a more athletic body

weight lifting is overrated and should only be utilized when you want to put more weight, for optimum performance, body weight is simply the best

You know nothing, lets leave it at that since that point was blatantly clear when you brought BODYbuilding into this, as if it was the only reason to lift. Most athletes do POWERlifting based routines.

Body weight will make you more athletic, no.

Using powerlifting techniques will make you stronger, more explosive, etc. There really isn't a reason to do it unless you think sticking with outdated routines will make you 'teh uber l3git b0xorrrr.' There's a reason why things become updated and change.

power lifting routines will make you bigger and stronger. it will also make you faster for the very short period of time you are explosive.

light weights long reps will make you stronger and keep you the same size. it will also make you just about as fast as a power lifter exploding but at any time you want to be fast you dont have to warm up for it or gather your strength. if your fast on your feet and train with say jumping rope and running every day your going to be able to continually close the gap and put on pressure.

if you train with squats every day your going to be able to lunge at the guy and attempt a take down about 10 times every round.

i compare weight lifting to the sulfur in a strike anywhere match head. its not whats giving you the flame but it makes it a hell of a lot easier to light it.

an intelligent boxer would keep calistentics and boxing training as the meat and potatoes but add some weight lifting as bread and butter.

who ever said low weight high reps is all ass backwards.

High weights less reps with an explosive technique is 10x more effective for boxing then less weight high reps.

Most of you guys are very uninformed in this thread.

Weightlifting does not equal mass.

You gain mass more quickly from weight training if that is what you are trying to do but i have been at 190-200lbs for 3 or 4 years and reps and weight have steadily increased over that period of time.

I have not gotten bigger i have gotten stronger.

And through explosive workouts i have become quicker...much quicker.

Educated weight training is a wonderful thing.

who ever said low weight high reps is all ass backwards.

High weights less reps with an explosive technique is 10x more effective for boxing then less weight high reps.

Most of you guys are very uninformed in this thread.

Weightlifting does not equal mass.

You gain mass more quickly from weight training if that is what you are trying to do but i have been at 190-200lbs for 3 or 4 years and reps and weight have steadily increased over that period of time.

I have not gotten bigger i have gotten stronger.

And through explosive workouts i have become quicker...much quicker.

Educated weight training is a wonderful thing.

being able to be quick for more then 5 seconds at a time is pretty nice too.

Some great explosive weight training workouts:

Dumbbell snatch
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hxX2pp-PySU&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hxX2pp-PySU&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Hang Clean
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-sl1Gdveuz4&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-sl1Gdveuz4&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Rows
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-zMgbgj_wbE&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-zMgbgj_wbE&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

there are many more just search around.

BTW you should notice all of these guys are not huge. They are normal athletic guys.

power lifting routines will make you bigger and stronger. it will also make you faster for the very short period of time you are explosive.

light weights long reps will make you stronger and keep you the same size. it will also make you just about as fast as a power lifter exploding but at any time you want to be fast you dont have to warm up for it or gather your strength. if your fast on your feet and train with say jumping rope and running every day your going to be able to continually close the gap and put on pressure.

if you train with squats every day your going to be able to lunge at the guy and attempt a take down about 10 times every round.

i compare weight lifting to the sulfur in a strike anywhere match head. its not whats giving you the flame but it makes it a hell of a lot easier to light it.

an intelligent boxer would keep calistentics and boxing training as the meat and potatoes but add some weight lifting as bread and butter.

What're you on about, being explosive occurs in a movement, that movement is usually quick, being quick for that moment is all you need. I don't see how you can be explosive in non-explosive movements.

Light weights will make you stronger and MUCH MUCH slower pace and with high reps I assume you're talking up there like around 14 and such, which would help muscular endurance. I train low reps and heavy weight and I don't need to get warmed up for an explosive movement, I don't know where you got that from. Explosiveness is something you build, cardio is what you use to keep doing it. You can train high reps all day but you won't do jack in the long run w/o cardio. I do calisthenics for muscular endurance and weight lifting for strength, cardio so I can use what I've gained.

What're you on about, being explosive occurs in a movement, that movement is usually quick, being quick for that moment is all you need. I don't see how you can be explosive in non-explosive movements.

Light weights will make you stronger and MUCH MUCH slower pace and with high reps I assume you're talking up there like around 14 and such, which would help muscular endurance. I train low reps and heavy weight and I don't need to get warmed up for an explosive movement, I don't know where you got that from. Explosiveness is something you build, cardio is what you use to keep doing it. You can train high reps all day but you won't do jack in the long run w/o cardio. I do calisthenics for muscular endurance and weight lifting for strength, cardio so I can use what I've gained.

Im saying alot of people just lift heavy weights and run, at no point in time are they increasing lactic acid threshold or increasing atp re-synthysis as well they are actually decreasing the amount of oxygen able to be stored in the muscle at any given time by training it in the direction of a fast twitch muscle.

the people that do this screw over their entire upper body, any kind of continual non static movement (throwing 200 punches a round) exhausts any muscles involved in record time regardless of cardio. you can see this in mma when 2 people go into an all out punching match that lasts 30 seconds and ends up with the 2 guys forgetting how to punch half way through then falling on each other compared to boxing where it lasts 4 rounds and the 2 guys just step away and start to be more defensive.

not that you shouldn't lift weights just that you should train the upper body boxing muscles in the same way running trains your lower body. with things like 6 sets of 40 rep at 20-40% your 1 rep max. (not 14)

as well if you include once a week of training for strength and explosiveness with something like 5*5 super sets or whatever it will help you go faster and stronger in the rest of your training but since your going faster and stronger your endurance will drastically decrease so you should really only do these things once a week that way all the other training you do will keep you improving your endurance or stamina while the once a week weight lifting helps you continually get stronger at a much quicker rate.

and warm up was a bad word choice its more of a preperation where you build of your strength then explode.

weight lifting will keep building you up
you'll easily find your natural body weight through calisthenics

and doin squats with weights doesn't help for boxing, i'd understand if your a rugby player or somethin, add some resistance to yoru shoulders as you push a tire, yea, it'll get you ready to keep moving when there is huge amounts of pressure on you pushing you the other way

when is a boxer gonna need that?
and doin squats with weights defienetly does not help your leaping capabilities as broly puts it, actualy practicing leaping(calisthenics) will help you with your leaping/lunges....whtever you wanna call it man

Its quite amazing how much information some people can give on a subject that obviously they have no ****ing clue about.

Its quite amazing how much information some people can give on a subject that obviously they have no ****ing clue about.

So whats your opinion on weights?

weight lifting will keep building you up
you'll easily find your natural body weight through calisthenics

and doin squats with weights doesn't help for boxing, i'd understand if your a rugby player or somethin, add some resistance to yoru shoulders as you push a tire, yea, it'll get you ready to keep moving when there is huge amounts of pressure on you pushing you the other way

when is a boxer gonna need that?
and doin squats with weights defienetly does not help your leaping capabilities as broly puts it, actualy practicing leaping(calisthenics) will help you with your leaping/lunges....whtever you wanna call it man

is that why squats and lunges are usually the norm for most boxers most of which heavyweights

Mike Tyson had an extensive weight training regime, which he did A LOT of squats. He was also the epitome of power with speed.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cc1SuHNBetU&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cc1SuHNBetU&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

a squat will strengthen your legs so that when your skinny ass gets tapped on the jaw your legs wont get wobbly.

Squats are harnessed by all athletes including endurance athletes.

here at Miss. St. i see the track athletes in the gym doing leg workouts including squats. I dont think their very seasoned coach would allow this unless it helped.

WEIGHT TRAINING DOES NOT EQUAL MASS

STRENGTH DOES NOT EQUAL MASS

WEIGHT TRAINING=STRENGTH THATS IT!!!

just because most of the gym rats you see around are big lumbering dumbasses doesnt mean **** for an opinion because more than half the people who weight train dont know **** or how to do it right.


i have a weekly regime i change up every 2 weeks to keep balanced.

i havnt changed weight in 2 or 3 years and my reps and power have increased steadily.

My forty times have increased on top of my endurance.

Im not a boxer(no boxing gym near by) but i use alot of boxing training. when i first started doing intervals i could only last like 5 rounds shadowboxing. With correct weight training i now shadow box for 12 rounds. On top of that through EXPLOSIVE workouts i have increased my hand speed dramatically.

I also do alot of calisthenics but with the proper weight training also

is that why squats and lunges are usually the norm for most boxers most of which heavyweights

Mike Tyson had an extensive weight training regime, which he did A LOT of squats. He was also the epitome of power with speed.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cc1SuHNBetU&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cc1SuHNBetU&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

a squat will strengthen your legs so that when your skinny ass gets tapped on the jaw your legs wont get wobbly.

Squats are harnessed by all athletes including endurance athletes.

here at Miss. St. i see the track athletes in the gym doing leg workouts including squats. I dont think their very seasoned coach would allow this unless it helped.

WEIGHT TRAINING DOES NOT EQUAL MASS

http://www.halhigdon.com/marathon/advanced1/advanced1.htm

i dont really see anything about squats.

http://www.halhigdon.com/ultramarathon/schedule.html

nothing here either. what going on these are 2 highly advanced training routines used by endurance athletes and nothing about weights let alone squats.

you know that the greeks knew that the earth was round they even knew how round it was with in 1000 miles then along come the Christians and their flat earth for 1500 years.

i dont think you can argue that weights are bad for boxing.... before i started using weights i was considered a pretty weak boxer...... i started doing the big compound lifts and started getting stronger, i hit much harder although i am by no means a banger. i thik they are great, just as long as they dont interfere with your roadwork, as i beleive cardio is defintetely more important for boxing.

http://i46.tinypic.com/wus6z8.gif

What are you reporting from the 1950's?

Get with the times and stop with the disinformation.

Says the 21 year old KID. LOL

is that why squats and lunges are usually the norm for most boxers most of which heavyweights

Mike Tyson had an extensive weight training regime, which he did A LOT of squats. He was also the epitome of power with speed.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cc1SuHNBetU&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cc1SuHNBetU&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

a squat will strengthen your legs so that when your skinny ass gets tapped on the jaw your legs wont get wobbly.

Squats are harnessed by all athletes including endurance athletes.

here at Miss. St. i see the track athletes in the gym doing leg workouts including squats. I dont think their very seasoned coach would allow this unless it helped.

WEIGHT TRAINING DOES NOT EQUAL MASS

STRENGTH DOES NOT EQUAL MASS

WEIGHT TRAINING=STRENGTH THATS IT!!!

just because most of the gym rats you see around are big lumbering dumbasses doesnt mean **** for an opinion because more than half the people who weight train dont know **** or how to do it right.


i have a weekly regime i change up every 2 weeks to keep balanced.

i havnt changed weight in 2 or 3 years and my reps and power have increased steadily.

My forty times have increased on top of my endurance.

Im not a boxer(no boxing gym near by) but i use alot of boxing training. when i first started doing intervals i could only last like 5 rounds shadowboxing. With correct weight training i now shadow box for 12 rounds. On top of that through EXPLOSIVE workouts i have increased my hand speed dramatically.

I also do alot of calisthenics but with the proper weight training also

This is a bad example. The pre-penitentiary Tyson did not lift weights like this. We all know the difference between the two versions. One used fantastic movement to get inside the other walked forward like a thug.

Over the past 19 years I've been through phases of calisthenics only, weights only, and mixing both together. For me personally there are zero advantageous to doing weights. In fact I had to quit weights 2 years ago aged 37 because they were contributing to age related wear and tear injuries. At that point through necessity I went calisthenic only, and within a few months of this I honestly wish I'd never touched weights in the first place. Never thought I'd feel like that because weights were a big art of my life.

Now I'm 39. My workouts take less time and work me much harder. I look in better shape, feel in better shape, have much better stamina, hardly ever get injured, my injuries heal faster, and my boxing has come on leaps and bounds.

This may not be the case for everyone, but there is a way to find out what works best for you. During periods when I only did weights I did them explosively (best for boxing), working pyramids of 20, 16, 12, 8, 4, 2, and 1 reps. My bench press 1 rep max at the end of the pyramid was 220lbs (I was just under 200lbs at the time). My shoulder press 1 rep max was 130lbs. Now I thought that I was pretty strong for a man of my age/size yet I could only crank out 25 flat knuckle pushups, and a mere 3 handstand pushups. Switching to a calisthenic routine and 2 years later I can go a set of 80 flat knuckle pushups and my handstand pushup record now stands at 36 but I'm now down to a stable 175lbs!

What does this prove? Well in my mind the calisthenics involve more of the body and lend themselves better to real world activities like boxing. I don't see the point in benching 220 if I can only crank out a measly 25 pushups. And what's more impressive, hoisting 130lbs overhead or pushing up from a handstand 30+ times?

Who knows what I can bench now... but I can certainly get more weight behind my punches, snap them out faster, and hit the focus mit an awful lot harder.

Might not be the same for everyone though. Each to their own.

If you started boxing and when you started you did not include weight lifting into your training for the first year, then the next year you added weight lifting in you would be amazed about how much it helps. The differences are seriously astronomical.

You dont get really big with all muscles from weight lifting. You get really big with all muscles when you weightlift and eat alot of food and protein.

http://www.halhigdon.com/marathon/advanced1/advanced1.htm

i dont really see anything about squats.

http://www.halhigdon.com/ultramarathon/schedule.html

nothing here either. what going on these are 2 highly advanced training routines used by endurance athletes and nothing about weights let alone squats.

I don't see how you can pick two links for Marathon Runners and use that as your sticking point, and be serious about it. Tons of athletes do squats.

-Usain Bolt does heavy squats

-Michael Vick (a very explosive QB in his prime did Squats)

-Miles Austin a beast of a Wide Receiver does heavy squats

-Brian Cushing does Heavy Squats and he did the 3 cone drill at the combine faster than half of the wide recivers and has a higher vertical jump than most of them as well.

-Mike Tyson did Squats

-I'm sure there are plenty of boxers who do them as well.


-Crossfitters, some of the fittest people in the world do squats

and an I'll leave this with a quote from one of the best strength coaches around today

"There is simply no other exercise, and certainly no machine, that produces the level of central nervous system activity, improved balance and coordination, skeletal loading and bone density enhancement, muscular stimulation and growth, connective tissue stress and strength, psychological demand and toughness, and overall systemic conditioning than the correctly performed full squat" - Mark Rippetoe


Says the 21 year old KID. LOL

...And???

I don't know if anybody knows but there are better ways to train nowadays, we don't have to train like rocky anymore.

I don't see how you can pick two links for Marathon Runners and use that as your sticking point, and be serious about it. Tons of athletes do squats.

-Usain Bolt does heavy squats

-Michael Vick (a very explosive QB in his prime did Squats)

-Miles Austin a beast of a Wide Receiver does heavy squats

-Brian Cushing does Heavy Squats and he did the 3 cone drill at the combine faster than half of the wide recivers and has a higher vertical jump than most of them as well.


-Crossfitters, some of the fittest people in the world do squats

and an I'll leave this with a quote from one of the best strength coaches around today






...And???

I don't know if anybody knows but there are better ways to train nowadays, we don't have to train like rocky anymore.

the 2 marathon runner links were in regards to the the endurance athelets comment. not football players. sprinters, and im not quite sure what cross fitters are.

the 2 marathon runner links were in regards to the the endurance athelets comment. not football players. sprinters, and im not quite sure what cross fitters are.

You don't think Squats can build endurance?

You don't think Squats can build endurance?

not when the goal is to keep the sets and reps low and the weights high if you start off at 5 sets of 3 and build up to 5 sets of 15 over a few weeks that would be diffrent.

i would recommend jump squats to any one training.

not when the goal is to keep the sets and reps low and the weights high if you start off at 5 sets of 3 and build up to 5 sets of 15 over a few weeks that would be diffrent.

i would recommend jump squats to any one training.

Well in that case I agree. I also have had good succes with Jump Squats as well. Helped a good deal with my vert and box jump

weight lifting will keep building you up
you'll easily find your natural body weight through calisthenics

and doin squats with weights doesn't help for boxing, i'd understand if your a rugby player or somethin, add some resistance to yoru shoulders as you push a tire, yea, it'll get you ready to keep moving when there is huge amounts of pressure on you pushing you the other way

when is a boxer gonna need that?
and doin squats with weights defienetly does not help your leaping capabilities as broly puts it, actualy practicing leaping(calisthenics) will help you with your leaping/lunges....whtever you wanna call it man

I don't wanna hear bs about natural weight. People say such and such is a natural weight, they only base it on performance at a level.

Also pre-pen Tyson lifted weights, there is evidence he lifted during his stay at the all boys school/boarding school/juvie he attended, making bets with staff about how much he could bench.

I don't wanna hear bs about natural weight. People say such and such is a natural weight, they only base it on performance at a level.

Also pre-pen Tyson lifted weights, there is evidence he lifted during his stay at the all boys school/boarding school/juvie he attended, making bets with staff about how much he could bench.

holy****, obviously, that's the whole point, a weight class where you can perform to the best of your abilities :nonono:

and tyson lifted in school? did he lift during boxing training, BEFORE prison?

I don't see how you can pick two links for Marathon Runners and use that as your sticking point, and be serious about it. Tons of athletes do squats.

-Usain Bolt does heavy squats

-Michael Vick (a very explosive QB in his prime did Squats)

-Miles Austin a beast of a Wide Receiver does heavy squats

-Brian Cushing does Heavy Squats and he did the 3 cone drill at the combine faster than half of the wide recivers and has a higher vertical jump than most of them as well.

-Mike Tyson did Squats

-I'm sure there are plenty of boxers who do them as well.


-Crossfitters, some of the fittest people in the world do squats

and an I'll leave this with a quote from one of the best strength coaches around today






...And???

I don't know if anybody knows but there are better ways to train nowadays, we don't have to train like rocky anymore.

naturally a rugby player and a runner like usain bolt do squats, one's gonna have a heavy load on there shoulders and try to push through it
the other is gonna want a big boost to kick start his running
and those squats didn't seem to help tyson

still think it's pointless for boxing, sorry :dunno:

calisthenics=endured
proper weight lifting=strong

calisthenics+ proper weight lifting = endured and strong

its very simple.

if you do PROPER weight training in which you do not suppress your endurance or range of motion that there is only positive...

there have been so many advancements in weight training.

here are two more world class athletes who harness weight training who are ENDURED.

Lance Armstrong
http://www.livestrong.com/video/5189-lance-armstrongs-strength-training-workout/
Michael Phelps
http://outside.away.com/outside/bodywork/200801/wellness-michael-phelps.html




Ill be looking up more.

Please tell me those guys are not well rounded balanced athletes

"holy****" obviously you didn't understand my point. People will say blah is his natural weight class then when he moves up he suddenly gets a new natural weight class. I also don't even like saying its their natural weight class, because they cut to get there.

Well I'm pretty sure juvie is for young criminals, so then I would say yes if you read my post.

You're so narrow minded its not even funny...

You're one of those guys who ridicule others train of thoughts believing you are right when in fact you are wrong. Had an experiance like that this week based on law/business cases where I oppossed the popular consensus and factored in more probable information than whats on the black and white yet I got called narrow-minded and they felt they were right till my teacher told them I was being broad-minded and considering other possibilities. People just don't understand till a certain point I guess.

i am naturally 190-200

if i boxed i would fight at 175.

so is 175 my natural weight? no

so many of you have it in your skulls that:

Weight training= mass

True through natural hormones you get naturally a little bigger but if you keep on the proper diet and running you will keep weight down while you gain strength.

Explosive ablities not needed in boxing??? are you kidding me?!

Boxing is one of the most explosive sports in the business.

"get off quicker than your opponent" that is the epitome of explosive movement.

wait, so you two actually believe you can get the best most suitable weight for your frames through weight lifting? hahahaha, now i've heard it all

the natural weight for the frame of most people should leave them lean, ripped and strong
it's gonna be pretty tough getting that if all you do is weight lift

if you want heavy hands you can always use dumbells, but what im sayin is, one arm pushups are just as useful plus they work out your whole body not just your arms, so it's a fuller workout

and when did i say explosive abilities not needed in boxing by the way? can you point me to that? i said squats with weights, your not gonna get down far enough to be able to utilize that little kick start, plus it'd be pretty useless in boxing considering your not allowed to ram into people, you have to punch them

Your logic sucks...

You're telling me calisthenics by itself will leave you ripped and cut. Sorry sir, thats the duty of cardio. NOT RESISTANCE training by BODY weight or ANY means.

Bench press when done certain ways is total body as well. I will gain more strength benching and squatting then I ever will with push ups. Moving you're body up and down fast requires a bit of explosiveness.

You think old school boxing training can make you the best fighter you can be, haha now I've heard it all...

and when did i say explosive abilities not needed in boxing by the way? can you point me to that? i said squats with weights, your not gonna get down far enough to be able to utilize that little kick start, plus it'd be pretty useless in boxing considering your not allowed to ram into people, you have to punch them

Now I know you're an idiot.

wait, so you two actually believe you can get the best most suitable weight for your frames through weight lifting? hahahaha, now i've heard it all

the natural weight for the frame of most people should leave them lean, ripped and strong
it's gonna be pretty tough getting that if all you do is weight lift

if you want heavy hands you can always use dumbells, but what im sayin is, one arm pushups are just as useful plus they work out your whole body not just your arms, so it's a fuller workout

and when did i say explosive abilities not needed in boxing by the way? can you point me to that? i said squats with weights, your not gonna get down far enough to be able to utilize that little kick start, plus it'd be pretty useless in boxing considering your not allowed to ram into people, you have to punch them

Just stop! Your logic gets progressively stupider with every post!

Anyone who still believes that weight training isn't good for any athlete seriously needs to do their research and see how just about every major athlete uses weight training in some form in their training.

do what you like, go lift as much weights as you want and end up like a kelly pavlik, see how slow and borderline **** of a boxer you'll turn into

and i can't believe the stupidity and ignorance, is it that hard to believe that calisthenics(which will use your whole body aka all your muscles) would leave you more ripped than bench pressing and doin arm curls?

a little somethin from an expert


By Tamir Katz-
Let's move on to the bodyweight vs. free weights debate. Bodyweight exercises are superior for wrestling and other grappling and martial arts, gymnastics, and for those who want to join the armed forces. Weight training is superior for brute strength, football, lifting competitions, and many of the sports. However, when training for other sports, free weights should be combined with sprints, some bodyweight exercises, as well as sport specific drills.


Why are bodyweight exercises superior for grappling, combat, and gymnastics? For several reasons. First of all, in each of those activities one needs the ability to use a muscle group over and over again at high levels - that is, muscular endurance, which is developed very well by bodyweight exercises like squats, push-ups, sit-ups, etc. Second, each of those events requires body awareness.


I define body awareness literally as being aware of every part of your body at any given point in time in any given position. The problem with weight lifting exercises, even the good ones like snatches, cleans, jerks, or bent pressing, is that you use "weight awareness" - that is, you have to be aware of where the weight is at all times more than where your body is. As long as the weight is lifted and caught in the correct position(s), the body will naturally follow suit (or else the lift fails).


However, bodyweight exercises take the weights out of the equation. To successfully do such challenging exercises as handstand push-ups, one-legged squats, headstands, and bridges, you have to be focusing on every part of your body. That is why they are so good for wrestling, and other combat sports where your body is in many different positions during a match, and to be able to successfully recover and counter attack, you must have full awareness of where each part of your body is at all times. Similarly, in gymnastics, where you flip and end up in many different positions, body awareness is crucial.


Not all bodyweight exercises develop body awareness equally. Some of the ones I mentioned above such as handstand push-ups and bridging do a very good job, but regular push-ups on the other hand develop it to a lesser extent. The more a bodyweight exercise requires agility and balance, the more body awareness it develops.


Bodyweight exercises are also good for people always on the road, those without money to purchase weights, and those with very little time, as a set of push-ups or squats can be squeezed in at odd moments during the day.

Let's sum it all up. Use machines very sparingly. They have poor crossover to real life activities. Use a predominantly bodyweight exercise regimen when training for such activities as wrestling and combat sports in general, gymnastics, diving, acrobatics, and the military, where you have to use muscles again and again and need highly developed body awareness, or simply if you're always on the road or have very little time. Use a predominantly free weight exercise regimen for most other sports and activities, but include some bodyweight exercises, and no matter what kind of activity you're engaged in, sprinting in all its forms will enhance your athleticism and fitness.

there you go again, calisthenics INCREASES athletism

and when i say calisthenics i mean proper workouts, not just pushups/situps/pullups etc

i mean hand-stand pushups, one arm pushups, i mean **** like this
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OhE4dIEcyY4&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OhE4dIEcyY4&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

do what you like, go lift as much weights as you want and end up like a kelly pavlik, see how slow and borderline **** of a boxer you'll turn into

and i can't believe the stupidity and ignorance, is it that hard to believe that calisthenics(which will use your whole body aka all your muscles) would leave you more ripped than bench pressing and doin arm curls?

You are the ignorant troll in this thread, being so scared of weights thinking you will turn into a slow ****, this being untrue. It is hard to believe calisthenics will leave you ripped because it works your MUSCLE ONLY. Same **** with people who want 6 packs, you could have the strongest abs in the world, it doesn't mean **** if you eat McDonalds and you can't see em, "Abs are made in the kitchen." You also talk about calisthenics as if they are all one workout, this is not true.

and when i say calisthenics i mean proper workouts, not just pushups/situps/pullups etc

i mean hand-stand pushups, one arm pushups, i mean **** like this

I'm totally with you on this one. Those Barmasters guys are awesome!

Years of weight training made me good at... umm... lifting weights. Calisthenics are very explosive exercises which produce very lean, muscle that is rock hard when tensed and soft and supple when relaxed. The muscles I got from weights were poor quality in comparison, they always felt and looked slightly rubbery.

I'm stronger at 175lbs after 2 years of purely calisthenics, than I was at 200lbs after years of weight training.

Properly executed Calisthenics also provide an extremely intense cardio workout which is ideal for boxing. Doing a fast set of pushups to fail leaves me gasping for air. I NEVER got that with weights. The only other time I'm left gasping for air is when I'm boxing all out.

IMO the heavyweights we see now are too big and lumbering. The smaller heavyweights from the past would make mincemeat out of them. Ali, Frazier, Norton, Marciano, Charles, Walcott, Louis, Liston, Dempsey, Tunney, Langford, Johnston, Wills... none of those guys trained with weights, and they all fought at under 215lbs. Charles, Dempsey, Tunny, and Marciano all fought at well under 200lbs.

There is a whole industry that sprang up around weight training in the 20th Century. It sells equipment, supplements, and gym membership. It's big business which is why it's marketed so hard as being the "default" option. To train calisthenics you only need the floor, a couple of chairs, a pull up bar, and sensible diet. Total cost $20.

John E Peterson has never trained with weights and he did 57 consecutive pull ups without stopping on his 57th birthday. I'd like to see someone who only trains with weights pull that one off.

Weights are just needless gadgets.

I remember a TV show a few years back where a bunch of fit guys all attempted a special forces selection course. The gym rats were the first to fail. Calisthenic exercises and roadwork are the staple of combat soldiers the world over.

My apologies if anyone is offended by this post.

You are the ignorant troll in this thread, being so scared of weights thinking you will turn into a slow ****, this being untrue. It is hard to believe calisthenics will leave you ripped because it works your MUSCLE ONLY. Same **** with people who want 6 packs, you could have the strongest abs in the world, it doesn't mean **** if you eat McDonalds and you can't see em, "Abs are made in the kitchen." You also talk about calisthenics as if they are all one workout, this is not true.

strong abs are strong abs regardless if you can see them or not. though i dont think thats has anything to do with the point your trying to make.

Also pre-pen Tyson lifted weights, there is evidence he lifted during his stay at the all boys school/boarding school/juvie he attended, making bets with staff about how much he could bench.

Yes he was lifting 250 pounds at age 12 beacuse it earned him bet money. However as soon as he got to Cus that stopped and all the way up to when Kevin Rooney left Tyson DID NOT LIFT WEIGHTS and Rooney himself said that.
Cus trained Tyson for SPEED not brute physical strenght (as weights would do). Tyson was doing sprints and alot of calisthenics plus a special heavy bag regime - Cus would make him work on one bag until he could ˙˙kill˙˙ it so to speak then they got a heavyer one all the way leading to him working on bag's nobody else in the gym could move. Thats how he developed his power.
Mark my words: If Tyson got to any other trainer who would have him doing weight training we would never talk about his speed and explosivness in the way we are today.

You are the ignorant troll in this thread, being so scared of weights thinking you will turn into a slow ****, this being untrue. It is hard to believe calisthenics will leave you ripped because it works your MUSCLE ONLY. Same **** with people who want 6 packs, you could have the strongest abs in the world, it doesn't mean **** if you eat McDonalds and you can't see em, "Abs are made in the kitchen." You also talk about calisthenics as if they are all one workout, this is not true.

i think your the ignorant one, if weights does not slow you down it will cut your stamina in half, it's one or the other

learn to face facts, i've quoted from an expert, lets see you quote from some other expert suggesting weight lifting is required or even more boldly better than calisthenics for boxing, this i gotta see

I'm totally with you on this one. Those Barmasters guys are awesome!

Years of weight training made me good at... umm... lifting weights. Calisthenics are very explosive exercises which produce very lean, muscle that is rock hard when tensed and soft and supple when relaxed. The muscles I got from weights were poor quality in comparison, they always felt and looked slightly rubbery.

I'm stronger at 175lbs after 2 years of purely calisthenics, than I was at 200lbs after years of weight training.

Properly executed Calisthenics also provide an extremely intense cardio workout which is ideal for boxing. Doing a fast set of pushups to fail leaves me gasping for air. I NEVER got that with weights. The only other time I'm left gasping for air is when I'm boxing all out.

IMO the heavyweights we see now are too big and lumbering. The smaller heavyweights from the past would make mincemeat out of them. Ali, Frazier, Norton, Marciano, Charles, Walcott, Louis, Liston, Dempsey, Tunney, Langford, Johnston, Wills... none of those guys trained with weights, and they all fought at under 215lbs. Charles, Dempsey, Tunny, and Marciano all fought at well under 200lbs.

There is a whole industry that sprang up around weight training in the 20th Century. It sells equipment, supplements, and gym membership. It's big business which is why it's marketed so hard as being the "default" option. To train calisthenics you only need the floor, a couple of chairs, a pull up bar, and sensible diet. Total cost $20.

John E Peterson has never trained with weights and he did 57 consecutive pull ups without stopping on his 57th birthday. I'd like to see someone who only trains with weights pull that one off.

Weights are just needless gadgets.

I remember a TV show a few years back where a bunch of fit guys all attempted a special forces selection course. The gym rats were the first to fail. Calisthenic exercises and roadwork are the staple of combat soldiers the world over.

My apologies if anyone is offended by this post.

nah man, no one should be offended, you made alot of good points, and are sharing your opinion from experience, as am i, i've always been an active kid since i can remember

tehMatrix - Im assuming from this thread you implemented a weight training programme in the past into your boxing training, so please let me know what training you was doing and also at what part did you notice a reduction in stamina and quickness for the boxing side of things through lifting weight?

Thanks

All of these have there benifits. Personally I love lifting, though I don't just stick to bench, squat and curls like a few I know. I'm naturally thin and all the calisthenics in the world never seemed to help me. For the last 5 years or so I have been doing power lifting, balistic lifting, long hold isometrics and plyoimetrics. My speed and power have become phenomenal, with no real effect on my stamina.

With I bigger person it may slow them down, but thats debatable. With me I hardly gain any weight, just continue getting stronger at roughly the same size.

I honestly think more boxers should train like this, I have meet an opponent in my division in years that I couldn't simply physically overwhealm. It has made me a little lazy with skills training though. Lol

i think your the ignorant one, if weights does not slow you down it will cut your stamina in half, it's one or the other

learn to face facts, i've quoted from an expert, lets see you quote from some other expert suggesting weight lifting is required or even more boldly better than calisthenics for boxing, this i gotta see

You're a damn tard. Slow you down or drain stamina is all coming from your false point of you gaining a lot of mass. THATS WHY THERE ARE STRENGTH ROUTINES AND MASS BUILDING ROUTINES. I'm 5'7" 157lbs, I do 55m, 100m, 200m, 300m, 400m, occasional 800m, Long Jump, occasional Triple Jump, Cross Country, Lift Weights, and do Calisthenics. I have pretty good stamina (take note that fight stamina is also different). I also bench ~215lbs 1RM, Leg Press ~600+ lbs, and I am by no means slow. I never won cross country because my legs are not long enough to beat the leaders and I don't have the build but I always stayed at least in the middle of the pack and was ALWAYS able to have a sprinting kick at the end. In sprinting I'm one of the best on my team and decent in the area. Long jump I'm decent, but with better form could be much better.

Summary: If you lift for Strength/Power/Explosiveness you will not get slower

Maybe I'll try to look up some article later, but for now you can take this as a first hand account.

Learn to face the facts, grow up and face the change.

do what you like, go lift as much weights as you want and end up like a kelly pavlik, see how slow and borderline **** of a boxer you'll turn into

and i can't believe the stupidity and ignorance, is it that hard to believe that calisthenics(which will use your whole body aka all your muscles) would leave you more ripped than bench pressing and doin arm curls?

you dont know what your talking about

You're a damn tard. Slow you down or drain stamina is all coming from your false point of you gaining a lot of mass. THATS WHY THERE ARE STRENGTH ROUTINES AND MASS BUILDING ROUTINES. I'm 5'7" 157lbs, I do 55m, 100m, 200m, 300m, 400m, occasional 800m, Long Jump, occasional Triple Jump, Cross Country, Lift Weights, and do Calisthenics. I have pretty good stamina (take note that fight stamina is also different). I also bench ~215lbs 1RM, Leg Press ~600+ lbs, and I am by no means slow. I never won cross country because my legs are not long enough to beat the leaders and I don't have the build but I always stayed at least in the middle of the pack and was ALWAYS able to have a sprinting kick at the end. In sprinting I'm one of the best on my team and decent in the area. Long jump I'm decent, but with better form could be much better.

Summary: If you lift for Strength/Power/Explosiveness you will not get slower

Maybe I'll try to look up some article later, but for now you can take this as a first hand account.

Learn to face the facts, grow up and face the change.
are we talking about sprinting or boxing? i bet pavlik and froch wouldn't admit they are slow as snails

fight stamina is different? evidence that you probabley feel your gonna die after 3 rounds?

and for the record you don't have to be beefy to have weights cut your stamina, i know skinny(ripped but skinny) cunts that weight lift and will be out of stamina in a mere 10 minutes

tehMatrix - Im assuming from this thread you implemented a weight training programme in the past into your boxing training, so please let me know what training you was doing and also at what part did you notice a reduction in stamina and quickness for the boxing side of things through lifting weight?

Thanks

i lifted for a year, i don't have a notepad with my exercises and ****
i just go in and train till failure
when i started boxing(at 16) it was just calisthenics, i am very athletic(mother was a soccer player, father soccer player, soldier)
when i started off, everyone including the coaches couldn't believe i've never boxed before, i have the technique down to a tee

soon after i turned 17 i started lifting, after a year i stopped lifting because i really felt it was limiting my usual movement and i just couldn't do what i used to, so i quit using the gym upstairs(in the boxing club)
after another couple of months of just calisthenics i'm feelings back to my old self

but do what you like, i don't give two ****s, i'm just telling you(with expert advice that i posted) that calisthenics is better and weight lifting is near enough useless "IN BOXING"

I trained using weights from the age of 19 until the age of 37. Occasionally I threw in some calisthenics but it was predominantly weights. With 18 years of experience I feel that I'm reasonably qualified to discuss weights.

Mostly I used free weights as I felt that machines limit the motion too much and do the job of balancing the weight which is more productive if left to the core muscles.

I'd train weights in a manner to improve my performance at striking. To do this I used pyramid sets kicking off with high rep counts. For example in a flat bench press I'd go:

20 reps at 110lbs
16 reps at 132lbs
12 reps at 154lbs
8 reps at 176lbs
4 reps at 198lbs
2 reps at 220lbs
1 rep at 242lbs

The first 4 sets I'd lift explosively and lower gradually over 4 secs. Once I hit 198lbs it would be a struggle to lift the bar explosively.

I weight trained for an hour on Mon, Wed, and Fri evenings. Mon would be chest and back, Wed would be legs and abs, and Fri would be shoulders and arms. I'd typically train 4 exercises each session, 2 compound at 7 sets each and 2 isolated at 5 sets each. I'd train different a different selection of exercises each week on a monthly rotation. I'd train for 4 weeks then take my catabolic week off to recover.

From that you should gather that I am (on paper) an experienced and competent lifter.

At that time I was mainly training for MMA as opposed to boxing. The problems I had were with recurring injuries mainly to my joints. These problems first surfaced in my early 30s, but became more serious over time. I was having serious tendonitis problems in my elbows (my physio said if I didn't stop then I risked permanent damage), and blew out both my rotator cuffs, and injury that most lifters don't recover from. These type of injuries are not uncommon in weight lifters approaching 40. Yes there are older guys still lifting, but many more have quit due to recurring injury. In fact this is almost accepted as being normal.

I managed to rehabilitate both my elbows and my rotator cuffs using calisthenics. This was a lengthy battle that lasted several months. The calisthenics also kept me in shape. Around this time I switched from MMA focused training to boxing because I find boxing more deeply involving. I cannot directly comment on the effect that switching to calisthenics had on my boxing (as boxing was new to me), but pretty much everything about my fitness improved. My cardio was better, my flexibility was better, I was lighter on my feet, my speed and power were better, I was hitting the focus mitts a lot harder, my stamina was better and most of all I wasn't getting injured any more.

I also lost a lot of mass, but seemed to be stronger, and actually look more defined than before. I think the problem is that weight training can add a lot of unnecessary muscle that's some people may desire from an aesthetic perspective but which has little or no real world application. My osteopath was always telling me that my muscles were poor quality. She's say "too much **** muscle here". Since switching to calisthenics she has nothing but complements for me. I believe that this excess showy muscle can only slow down a boxer, and lugging round an extra 15-25 pounds of muscle just tires you out. It also seems to impede certain movements. For example I now find it much easier to pull my elbows together across my chest. I also find it easier to snap punches out and back, and am better able to intercept punches with my elbows. But most of all I can go a lot more rounds at a higher intensity before I get tired.

Now this may not apply to everyone. It certainly does apply to me, and no doubt there are other people out there who would be better shunning weights in favour of calisthenics. Arguably everyone aged over 40 for starters LOL. What I resent is the arrogant attitude that weights are somehow the default option and that nothing else is capable of getting the same results. Just to **** on that concept please note that it is a generally accepted scientific FACT that the fastest, biggest, and most enduring strength gains are made from isometric training (which involves no weights) and that there are countless papers out there that prove this.

I also personally believe that many of the standard of boxing was better prior to 1990 when weight training started to become more prevalent, resulting in the overblown lumbering heavyweights that are common in the sport today.

http://www.fitnessandfreebies.com/health/top18.html
http://life.familyeducation.com/weight-lifting/exercise/48807.html

I often though lifting weights just made you go big etc and tired you out quicker. But the more research i have been doing, how wrong I was.

There are so many benifets to lifting weights.

Is anyone still against boxers lifting them and if so state reason why you are against it.

Have you read these
Strength Training For Fighters
http://www.rosstraining.com/articles/strengthtraining.html
Old School Bodyweight Strength .This is what I perfer tbh
http://www.beastskills.com/

are we talking about sprinting or boxing? i bet pavlik and froch wouldn't admit they are slow as snails

fight stamina is different? evidence that you probabley feel your gonna die after 3 rounds?

and for the record you don't have to be beefy to have weights cut your stamina, i know skinny(ripped but skinny) cunts that weight lift and will be out of stamina in a mere 10 minutes

I'm making a general comparison sorry if you couldn't understand that, since you were saying lifting makes you slow and bulky. Sorry.

Fight stamina is different because it IS. I can feel the difference running miles and miles vs going the rounds. 3 Rounds for me is decently tiring, take note I do MMA so my exhaustion levels will probably more than you think since its full body.

In case you didn't know you just destroyed you're own argument, because I'm sure you were trying to make a case that the mass gained from lifting makes you slower earlier. If they lift weights and are skinny yet have horrible cardio would it not be safe to assume their cardio routine is nowhere near good enough? You seem to have an agenda against lifting, get over it.

I'm making a general comparison sorry if you couldn't understand that, since you were saying lifting makes you slow and bulky. Sorry.

Fight stamina is different because it IS. I can feel the difference running miles and miles vs going the rounds. 3 Rounds for me is decently tiring, take note I do MMA so my exhaustion levels will probably more than you think since its full body.

In case you didn't know you just destroyed you're own argument, because I'm sure you were trying to make a case that the mass gained from lifting makes you slower earlier. If they lift weights and are skinny yet have horrible cardio would it not be safe to assume their cardio routine is nowhere near good enough? You seem to have an agenda against lifting, get over it.
look at kelly pavlik, he lifts, does he pack alot of mass? is he one of the slowest fighters of all time? how many fighters back in the days did you see that slow?

so no, i didn't destroy my argument, your just not as smart as you'd like, i've got other people with experience that box that are agreeing with me, i have an expert that is agreeing with me, all you have is your opinion, and a closed mind, you cant take that your wrong, and like i said before, i don't give a ****

look at kelly pavlik, he lifts, does he pack alot of mass? is he one of the slowest fighters of all time? how many fighters back in the days did you see that slow?

so no, i didn't destroy my argument, your just not as smart as you'd like, i've got other people with experience that box that are agreeing with me, i have an expert that is agreeing with me, all you have is your opinion, and a closed mind, you cant take that your wrong, and like i said before, i don't give a ****

:dance: Continue living in your dream world

:dance: Continue living in your dream world

:bottle::bottle::bottle:

:bottle::bottle::bottle:

Your arguments don't make sense, you have been proved wrong and owned dozens of times in this thread, please just stop embarassing yourself.

Your arguments don't make sense, you have been proved wrong and owned dozens of times in this thread, please just stop embarassing yourself.
stop crying, most of the responses where exactly the same as the one you posted right now, not counter-arguing at all, just being closed minded and not being able to accept that your wrong :lol1:
:bottle::bottle::bottle:

i've got other people with experience that box that are agreeing with me, i have an expert that is agreeing with me, all you have is your opinion, and a closed mind, you cant take that your wrong, and like i said before, i don't give a ****

I dont know about agreeing with you we all agree with you in that calistentics and boxing training is more important to boxing then weight lifting, but as for why and to what degree is quite varied.

stop crying, most of the responses where exactly the same as the one you posted right now, not counter-arguing at all, just being closed minded and not being able to accept that your wrong :lol1:
:bottle::bottle::bottle:

You have been heavily debated with many good points but you down play everyones opinion and knowledge because you are biased to a ridiculous degree.

If anyone is being closed-minded it is you. You are the one who is sticking to an old wives tale that weight training makes you big and slow. The truth is that it does not and even though we have given you repeated evidence you still decide to say we have no good arguement.

You are hardheaded not knowledgable.

As i put in a previous post.

Two of America's best athletes implement some sort of weight training regiment.

Lance Armstrong

and

Michael Phelps.

Armstrong one of the greatest endurance sport athletes to live.

Phelps is maybe the greatest swimmer ever to live.

Neither are big and slow.

They are lean, powerful, and explosive.

on top of being well balanced

If weight training made you slower then you are simply not doing it right. You just need to adjust it to your sport. That sport being boxing the lifts need to be fast and explosive. I have gained a lot of speed and power from weights, but that won't happen if you lift like a football player. Which is why I lift like a boxer.

Also, if you lift then you must stretch. Not just afterwards, but everyday. Your muscles will stay nice and loose and your strength and speed will go up.

You have been heavily debated with many good points but you down play everyones opinion and knowledge because you are biased to a ridiculous degree.

If anyone is being closed-minded it is you. You are the one who is sticking to an old wives tale that weight training makes you big and slow. The truth is that it does not and even though we have given you repeated evidence you still decide to say we have no good arguement.

You are hardheaded not knowledgable.

As i put in a previous post.

Two of America's best athletes implement some sort of weight training regiment.

Lance Armstrong

and

Michael Phelps.

Armstrong one of the greatest endurance sport athletes to live.

Phelps is maybe the greatest swimmer ever to live.

Neither are big and slow.

They are lean, powerful, and explosive.

on top of being well balanced

the problem with the idiots here, it's a boxing forum we are talkin boxing yet your bringing up a swimmer and a cyclist

like the other idiot said, boxing stamina is different
we are talking boxing, try and keep up

Swimming is considered the most physically draining sport there is.

It has been said many times that the only sport that gives you a better full body workout better than boxing is swimming.

Swimming and boxing are not very different...Well maybe to people that are trying to back a claim that is false.

They are both sports in which you harness all of your body in an explosive way.
Not only do you have to have powerful legs but you have to have powerful arms and shoulders.

Many boxers including The Klitschko's use a heavy swimming regiment to get ready for fights.

But im sure youll find a way to say my claims are stupid...because they shoot down your biased opinion

Swimming is considered the most physically draining sport there is.

It has been said many times that the only sport that gives you a better full body workout better than boxing is swimming.

Swimming and boxing are not very different...Well maybe to people that are trying to back a claim that is false.

did you read the article i posted? if you did you'd know why it's different

running is a nice near full body workout too, didn't help phenomkid too much

did you read the article i posted? if you did you'd know why it's different

running is a nice near full body workout too, didn't help phenomkid too much

i added more as soon as i posted it...seems you caught me before i edited.

but none the less the facts are there. Your just playing hardheading and trying to cling on to erroneous opinion

i added more as soon as i posted it...seems you caught me before i edited.

but none the less the facts are there. Your just playing hardheading and trying to cling on to erroneous opinion

so the clits swim? what's your point? is that their secret to their super speed and athletism? will you just shut the **** up and read the article i posted you clown, **** sake man, why are you duckin and dodgin it? oh, yea, cuz you know you can't counter-argue....:nonono:

so the clits swim? what's your point? is that their secret to their super speed and athletism? will you just shut the **** up and read the article i posted you clown, **** sake man, why are you duckin and dodgin it? oh, yea, cuz you know you can't counter-argue....:nonono:

haha you are by far the most hardheaded son of a ***** on this website.

You are one of those people who can never admit they are wrong even when they know it. Its like talking to a Pacquiao fan. Im done in this thread. I always keep myself from arguing with idiots. Ive let myself slide this time.

You are a ****ing tool and i will find it hard to respect any post made by you in the future.

haha you are by far the most hardheaded son of a ***** on this website.

You are one of those people who can never admit they are wrong even when they know it. Its like talking to a Pacquiao fan. Im done in this thread. I always keep myself from arguing with idiots. Ive let myself slide this time.

You are a ****ing tool and i will find it hard to respect any post made by you in the future.

how come you didn't reply to the article?

people in denial, e.g:

denial:"he never did steroids fool"
proof: "shows video proof of fighter doing steroids"
denial:"that could be anything that he's injecting in his arm you retard, i dont hear him sayin it's steroids"
proof:"......watch the video till end"
denial:"......."
proof:"see you were wrong"
denial:"hahaha, you are by far the most hardheaded son of a ***** on this site, you just can't admit your wrong"
proof:"?? aren't you gonna reply to the proof im showing you?"
denial:"hahaha, your a ****ing tool, it's like talking to a pacquiao fan, im out of here"
proof:"...wht the ****?"

I haven´t read any of this but alot of you do not know what you are talking about. I am a personal trained (certified) and you are all ignoring the science behind it. The function of muscle is to produce force and cause motion.
heres some food for thought
"All muscles derive from paraxial mesoderm[2]. The paraxial mesoderm is divided along the embryo's length into somites, corresponding to the segmentation of the body (most obviously seen in the vertebral column[2]. Each somite has 3 divisions, sclerotome (which forms vertebrae), dermatome (which forms skin), and myotome (which forms muscle)[2]. The myotome is divided into two sections, the epimere and hypomere, which form epaxial and hypaxial muscles, respectively[2]. Epaxial muscles in humans are only the erector spinae and small intervertebral muscles, and are innervated by the dorsal rami of the spinal nerves[2]. All other muscles, including limb muscles, are hypaxial muscles, formed from the hypomere, and inervated by the ventral rami of the spinal nerves[2].

During development, myoblasts (muscle progenitor cells) either remain in the somite to form muscles associated with the vertebral column or migrate out into the body to form all other muscles[2]. Myoblast migration is preceded by the formation of connective tissue frameworks, usually formed from the somatic lateral plate mesoderm[2]. Myoblasts follow chemical signals to the appropriate locations, where they fuse into elongate skeletal muscle cells"

Does that help?
anyway muscle is the main consumer of your bodies energy. Makes sense that what you want is to develop USEFUL muscle and not waste it on muscle that is pretty. Its all about white blood cells, ATP and your CO2 max. THink also of lactic acid.

Weight training is useful, so is calisthenics, but nothing hits the muscle like targeted heavy weight training, weight training also helps strengthen connective tissue, bones and the nerves that stimulate the muscle, makes lactic acid removal faster and more efficient and generally help CNS efficiency. Now some of us are BORN with more slow twitch than fast twitch muscle. Those boxerswith pred. slow twitch will DEFINITELY benefit from heavy weight training, those lucky naturally muscular and fast twitch might only have to do calisthenics. All about the person and their genetic disposition.

Trouble is people are trying to generalise what works for everyone.

The best weight lifting is Kettle bells and cords. Boxers should be focusing on their core and legs, not building up manikin muscles.

The best weight lifting is Kettle bells and cords. Boxers should be focusing on their core and legs, not building up manikin muscles.

Yes and no, depends on the person and their specific micro and macro needs

yea ive started liftin weights ive noticed more endurance in with the speed bag and jump ropes, my arms dont get as tired.... same goes with the mitts, i did 3 rounds of mitts and i haavnet even been runnin lol... ima stick with this :)

did you read the article i posted? if you did you'd know why it's different

running is a nice near full body workout too, didn't help phenomkid too much

First of all you ignorant dumbass, don't claim to know my abilities. Has it helped me of course, you idiot. Whats more tiring? MMA moreso than boxing. Going 3 rounds is pretty tiring unless you verse someone who sucks. I can go the full 3, will I be tired at the end vs. a good adversary, yes. You obviously choose to disregard to my follow-up post with you saying I had no cardio. You need to stop trying to attack me and learn to further your game, fcuking idiot.

stop crying, most of the responses where exactly the same as the one you posted right now, not counter-arguing at all, just being closed minded and not being able to accept that your wrong :lol1:
:bottle::bottle::bottle:

You're so incredibly stupid that you don't notice your one sentence is so blatantly contradictory to your train of thought. No one said calisthenics are bad, we all use em, we all like em. YOU claim lifting is BAD, that is being close minded, that is not being able to accept you're wrong. Learn wtf you're talking about first before you try to seem smart and omniscient.

I'm a wrestler, and the Matrix is dead right.

Calisthenics and/or bodyweight is all you need and is FAR superior to weightlifting.

I love Boxing, but wrestling is the world's oldest sport, 5000 years of sport history. It requires the most overall fitness of all of sport.

The Russians dominate Wrestling, they have 19, 20, 21 year olds WIN the worlds and Olympics because they do BODYWEIGHT exercises.

ROPE climbing, pull ups, chin ups, You should see a 19 kid throw a 34 year old around and they LOOK skinny but have incredible strength that lasts and lasts.

I cannot believe the ignorance of all the WEIGHTLIFTERS, it is amazing. Weights will ruin your body, break it down.
The problem is there is so many BALL sport athletes that think they know it all and promote running and weights.

For all combat athletes, wrestlers, boxers, and so, BODYweight is the best.

I'm a wrestler, and the Matrix is dead right.

Calisthenics and/or bodyweight is all you need and is FAR superior to weightlifting.

I love Boxing, but wrestling is the world's oldest sport, 5000 years of sport history. It requires the most overall fitness of all of sport.

The Russians dominate Wrestling, they have 19, 20, 21 year olds WIN the worlds and Olympics because they do BODYWEIGHT exercises.

ROPE climbing, pull ups, chin ups, You should see a 19 kid throw a 34 year old around and they LOOK skinny but have incredible strength that lasts and lasts.

Do you have any proof of this?

Because I know for a fact almost all Olympic level wrestlers do some type of weight training in conjunction with calisthenics. Whether it be Oly Lifting or basic lifts like Squats, Bench and Deadlifts.

I'm sorry but doing an only bodyweight routine will never give you a full training benefit. You won't be as strong or as explosive or as fast as you could without resistance training of some kind.


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WOdyTMBtOTg&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WOdyTMBtOTg&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZZ29WGARzpA&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZZ29WGARzpA&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8Z0ayyWyTLE&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8Z0ayyWyTLE&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


I cannot believe the ignorance of all the WEIGHTLIFTERS, it is amazing. Weights will ruin your body, break it down.
The problem is there is so many BALL sport athletes that think they know it all and promote running and weights.

again where is the proof of this? The only body breakdown that comes from lifting weight comes from poor form or too much weight or a combination of both.

For all combat athletes, wrestlers, boxers, and so, BODYweight is the best.

I say again where is the proof that all you need is calisthenics?

Listen I'm not here saying Calisthenics are a waste of time, they have use and should be a staple in every training routine, but you and tehmatrix are the ones spewing ignorance.

I said RUSSIAN wrestlers. You proved my point. USA wrestling has it wrong.

Yeah, all the USA wrestlers USE weights, especially high school and college. In fact they spend up to 2 hours a day. Because they have so much influence from BALL SPORTS athletes and other sources that are wrong.

The US team almost always uses power or strength and weight cutting to win. Instead of mastering technique. Saitiev, the best wrestler from RUSSIA, is very skinny.

Almost all US wrestlers are strength wrestlers, power wrestlers, and you know what? They have short short careers because they starve themselves, and are just POWER wrestlers that don't learn the sweet science.

In the Greco Roman vid that is Jim Gruenwald and he did a lot of dips, and pull ups on his own and went to say that it way better than weights just last year.

USA wrestlers are like SLUGGERS that never learn to BOX, they all rely on power.

I beg to differ with the wrestlers I've seen, and my school has state competitors, D1 Wrestlers, etc. They have what seems to be good technique, not that I can compare to Russia however. Weightlifting does not break you down, weightlifting when done right supplements what you currently have. I think I'm done explaining this...

I said RUSSIAN wrestlers. You proved my point. USA wrestling has it wrong.

Yeah, all the USA wrestlers USE weights, especially high school and college. In fact they spend up to 2 hours a day. Because they have so much influence from BALL SPORTS athletes and other sources that are wrong.

The US team almost always uses power or strength and weight cutting to win. Instead of mastering technique. Saitiev, the best wrestler from RUSSIA, is very skinny.

Almost all US wrestlers are strength wrestlers, power wrestlers, and you know what? They have short short careers because they starve themselves, and are just POWER wrestlers that don't learn the sweet science.

In the Greco Roman vid that is Jim Gruenwald and he did a lot of dips, and pull ups on his own and went to say that it way better than weights just last year.

USA wrestlers are like SLUGGERS that never learn to BOX, they all rely on power.

You haven't proven your point. You've pointed out one nation of wrestlers and based your whole argument around that, which is foolish.

And you still haven't been able to come forth with proof that calisthenics are better, nor have you come forth with any proof that says weightlifting is bad other than your opinion and the opinion of a few other people.

If you want to be a really good boxer do only boxing training and calisthenics

if you want to be a really good boxer fast do about 80% boxing training and calisthenics with about 20% weightlifting

if you want to be an acceptable boxer or just want to be able to keep up with the rest of the people in your gym that are never going to be famous do about 40-70% of your training on weights.

if you never plan on boxing on any kind of level showing any kind of skill 100% of your training should be weights.

Lifting weights and INJURIES

http://www.straighttothebar.com/2006/11/common_weight_lifting_injuries.html

http://www.exercisegoals.com/weight-training-lifting-injuries.html

http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/node/3257 2.6 injuries per 1000 hrs of lifting

Destroys your joints http://www.swis.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=26&limit=1&limitstart=0

Wrecks your shoulder http://www.protraineronline.com/past/2003/feb2003/shoulder.cfm

Lifting cause pain and injuries in lower back, kness, shoulders elbows.
http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/custom/portlets/recordDetails/detailmini.jsp?_nfpb=true&_&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=EJ585731&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=EJ585731

Study in the number of lifting injuries in adolescents http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/72/5/636

How the big lifts deadlift, squat, bench, cause injuries http://www.powerhousegym.co.nz/articles/justin_keogh_pl_injuries.pdf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSJCDcAKShA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EK4L8Nk2ZpA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3poAxvEBcoo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otqbG5CbZ7E&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYklbxHP2tI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYklbxHP2tI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI0Zl-tMRf4

...and you have proven my point. As I mentioned before the injuries that come from lifting come from too much weight and poor form.

Not to mention you chose powerlifting to cite most of the injuries caused by weightlifting, which conflicts with what I had already mentioned about form and weight.

You see the more weight you lift the more problems are going to show in your form. Form is extremely important and if your form sucks and you try to lift too much weight, the chances of injury and accidents are there.

But I've seen people blow out their knees not lifting any weight at all. So really, your argument is invalid.

You picked the studies where either

A) Subjects Injured were using too much weight
B) Subjects Injured were using poor form
C) Subjects Injured were using both A & B
D) Subjects involved in Powerlifting

Powerlifting has been a sport plagued by injuries for a long time because it's all about weight. Nowadays people are smarter about their training and from training with Powerlifters and going to IPA meets, injuries are much less commonplace.

You can't go and say well, look at this retard using ****ty form, too much weight and got injured. That's not the fault of the exercise and that's not the fault of weightlifting. That's the fault of the person for trying to do something without knowing how to do it in the first place

i need a weight training program..just to bulk up..i wanna train 3-4 days a week..which i do now but don't have really a plan..i just do w/e i come up with.

Lifting weights and INJURIES

Of the links you posted I think these are the most pertinent:

The link below comes from a weightlifting site, so of course it's heavily skewed towards lifting. Sources with a pro weight training standpoint always blame poor form or incorrect technique on these injuries. I don't dispute that poor form an incorrect technique cause the majority of injuries. However I would argue that the wear an tear of hoisting weights for 18 years was the main cause of my own injuries, and I'm not alone in experiencing this problem. It also seems to me that there are hundreds of potential 'mistakes' to be made when lifting. More and more are being cited each year. Much of the advice is conflicting. Some of the stuff I was taught by personal trainers 18 years ago is now considered downright dangerous, holding your breath during the lift for instance??? Mark my words in 20 years time the waters will be even muddier. One part that particularly made me laugh in this link was "The 'no curl' biceps program"...

http://www.straighttothebar.com/2006/11/common_weight_lifting_injuries.htm

This next link cites power lifters. But we must take into account that although power lifters are the most affected, that these same injuries can be caused by less extreme lifting, otherwise surely people like me wouldn't be affected after only benching 220lbs! I'd also like to point out that my injuries were sustained in spite of longterm execution of the injury prevention techniques. The injuries most likely occurred due to an accumulation of wear and tear over many years.

http://www.protraineronline.com/past/2003/feb2003/shoulder.cfm

This final link also references powerlifters but the advice in it is very good for any lifter. Unfortunately there is a lot of advice to take on board and many classic exercises need to be dispensed with.

http://www.powerhousegym.co.nz/articles/justin_keogh_pl_injuries.pdf

Now for the flip side of the coin, there are also some dangers inherent in calisthenics. For example if someone only performed one from of pushup then this would undoubtedly result in imbalance injuries and wear and tear type damage. The difference with calisthenics is:

1) There are less rules for avoiding injury and they are much simpler and better understood.

2) Calisthenics exercises are all essentially compound. They do not isolate muscles, overwork the smaller muscles, or create impingements. They all strongly target the core, and work large sections of the body in perfect synchronisation.

3) When performed explosively calisthenics hit your burst cardio (the type we need for boxing) as hard as they hit the muscles. When performing pushups I'm never sure whether I'm going to run out of strength first or gas first. This also reinforces the link-up between the skeletal muscles and the cardiovascular system. You're training your muscles, heart and lungs to all work in conjunction with each other. That's exactly what we need when fighting, and why calisthenics is so highly regarded by boxing trainers.

4) Here's a simple challenge. You take two individuals of roughly the same weight and physical condition. One trains only with weights, the other trains only calisthenics. Have them perform each others routines for 1 week and compare the results. I can almost guarantee that the calisthenic proponents performance on the weights will be close to that of the lifter, but the lifter will perform very poorly at the callisthenics. I believe this because I've taken up this challenge on a couple occasions over the past 12 months. There's no need to argue about what the outcome might be. The proof is entirely demonstrable by performing the challenge yourself. I don't expect anyone to believe me or take my word for it. I don't recommend taking anyone's word on this one, or buying into any of the arguments on this thread. Just take this challenge and base your knowledge on the outcome.

5) There is an even easier way... I am 39 years old, I'm 6' tall and weigh 175. Here are a few of the things that I can do:

80 pushups on most of the basic forms.

30 handstand pushups (supported by another person as I have a serious neck injury).

30 full range parallel dips.

60 bench dips.

12 wide grip over arm pull ups

The iron cross.

What's more I can do those thing one after the other with no drop in performance. If you are working a weights only routine, then test this out on yourself. In my experience most lifters, even 20 years younger than me, can't do those things.

If you do take up this challenge, and you fail, then I'd strongly recommend taking 3 months out your weight training routine and focusing on calisthenics instead. Chance are you'll never go back to weights. Weights are a triumph of marketing over substance.

A common complaint is that calisthenics lacks the social aspect of weights. This is easy to solve. Do the exercise with a trainings partner. It's just like being at the gym.

If anyone wants a copy of my calisthenics routine then just PM me.

EDIT: Also to the best of my knowledge the vast majority of gymnasts do not train with weights. Try telling me they aren't strong. In fact just try performing the iron cross!

Of the links you posted I think these are the most pertinent:

The link below comes from a weightlifting site, so of course it's heavily skewed towards lifting. Sources with a pro weight training standpoint always blame poor form or incorrect technique on these injuries. I don't dispute that poor form an incorrect technique cause the majority of injuries. However I would argue that the wear an tear of hoisting weights for 18 years was the main cause of my own injuries, and I'm not alone in experiencing this problem. It also seems to me that there are hundreds of potential 'mistakes' to be made when lifting. More and more are being cited each year. Much of the advice is conflicting. Some of the stuff I was taught by personal trainers 18 years ago is now considered downright dangerous, holding your breath during the lift for instance??? Mark my words in 20 years time the waters will be even muddier. One part that particularly made me laugh in this link was "The 'no curl' biceps program"...

http://www.straighttothebar.com/2006/11/common_weight_lifting_injuries.htm

This next link cites power lifters. But we must take into account that although power lifters are the most affected, that these same injuries can be caused by less extreme lifting, otherwise surely people like me wouldn't be affected after only benching 220lbs! I'd also like to point out that my injuries were sustained in spite of longterm execution of the injury prevention techniques. The injuries most likely occurred due to an accumulation of wear and tear over many years.

http://www.protraineronline.com/past/2003/feb2003/shoulder.cfm

This final link also references powerlifters but the advice in it is very good for any lifter. Unfortunately there is a lot of advice to take on board and many classic exercises need to be dispensed with.

http://www.powerhousegym.co.nz/articles/justin_keogh_pl_injuries.pdf

Now for the flip side of the coin, there are also some dangers inherent in calisthenics. For example if someone only performed one from of pushup then this would undoubtedly result in imbalance injuries and wear and tear type damage. The difference with calisthenics is:

1) There are less rules for avoiding injury and they are much simpler and better understood.

2) Calisthenics exercises are all essentially compound. They do not isolate muscles, overwork the smaller muscles, or create impingements. They all strongly target the core, and work large sections of the body in perfect synchronisation.

3) When performed explosively calisthenics hit your burst cardio (the type we need for boxing) as hard as they hit the muscles. When performing pushups I'm never sure whether I'm going to run out of strength first or gas first. This also reinforces the link-up between the skeletal muscles and the cardiovascular system. You're training your muscles, heart and lungs to all work in conjunction with each other. That's exactly what we need when fighting, and why calisthenics is so highly regarded by boxing trainers.

4) Here's a simple challenge. You take two individuals of roughly the same weight and physical condition. One trains only with weights, the other trains only calisthenics. Have them perform each others routines for 1 week and compare the results. I can almost guarantee that the calisthenic proponents performance on the weights will be close to that of the lifter, but the lifter will perform very poorly at the callisthenics. I believe this because I've taken up this challenge on a couple occasions over the past 12 months. There's no need to argue about what the outcome might be. The proof is entirely demonstrable by performing the challenge yourself. I don't expect anyone to believe me or take my word for it. I don't recommend taking anyone's word on this one, or buying into any of the arguments on this thread. Just take this challenge and base your knowledge on the outcome.

5) There is an even easier way... I am 39 years old, I'm 6' tall and weigh 175. Here are a few of the things that I can do:

80 pushups on most of the basic forms.

30 handstand pushups (supported by another person as I have a serious neck injury).

30 full range parallel dips.

60 bench dips.

12 wide grip over arm pull ups

The iron cross.

What's more I can do those thing one after the other with no drop in performance. If you are working a weights only routine, then test this out on yourself. In my experience most lifters, even 20 years younger than me, can't do those things.

If you do take up this challenge, and you fail, then I'd strongly recommend taking 3 months out your weight training routine and focusing on calisthenics instead. Chance are you'll never go back to weights. Weights are a triumph of marketing over substance.

A common complaint is that calisthenics lacks the social aspect of weights. This is easy to solve. Do the exercise with a trainings partner. It's just like being at the gym.

If anyone wants a copy of my calisthenics routine then just PM me.

EDIT: Also to the best of my knowledge the vast majority of gymnasts do not train with weights. Try telling me they aren't strong. In fact just try performing the iron cross!

Thats great you can do those exercises, congratulations, but if you are training for it you adapt, I dont know if powerlifters could do that (without training for it) or not but it is irrevelant, to boxing anyway.

Skill training is the most important but weights can be a useful tool in a some boxers arsenal, calisthenics as well. The thing most people are missing here is that there are many ways to skin a cat. Too many generalizations as well, surely individual differences, strengths and weaknesses play a part, genetics of course as well.

I have said it many times in this section but i just stopped trying cause people are just too ****ing stupid. Lifting weights does not automatically means body building.

I lift weights for physical strenght purposes and i never gave a crap about putting on muscle. I lift heavy and do low reps, and i also do plyometrics.

It never made me slower or less explosive, on the contrary, i am faster and stronger than i have ever been. I have been boxing since i was 15 and did more traditional martial arts when i was a kid. I didn't lift any enough before i was about 19-20, and once i started it was for the best.

If you think that weights are bad for any athlete, i won't even argue with you, i'll just say that you are a dumbass.

i need a weight training program..just to bulk up..i wanna train 3-4 days a week..which i do now but don't have really a plan..i just do w/e i come up with.

For the love of god don't do it!!!!!! you will lose explosion, build muscle, become bulky and never box again!!!!

nooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!

For the love of god don't do it!!!!!! you will lose explosion, build muscle, become bulky and never box again!!!!

nooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!

i gotta stop boxing ,i've read one should not do much cardio when trying to bulk up...life's too short to be small.

i gotta stop boxing ,i've read one should not do much cardio when trying to bulk up...life's too short to be small.

So you would rather bulk up then box? wow

How long have you been boxing for?

So you would rather bulk up then box? wow

How long have you been boxing for?

7 years or so..i'm sick of it.

7 years or so..i'm sick of it.

How many fights? That's a shame your sick of it

i gotta stop boxing ,i've read one should not do much cardio when trying to bulk up...life's too short to be small.

Not much cardio, but a good 5 mins at a relaxed pace can be help full. lots of muscles in the legs large muscles and your body has to work harder to power and recover those muscles. so by exercising those muscles even a little bit your body ends up releasing greater amounts of hormones for energy and recover then if you didnt spend those 5 mins walking at 4 mph...not to mention all the benefits of warming up for 5 mins before stretching and exercising.

How many fights? That's a shame your sick of it

None,i trained on and off..i sparred a lot..i never trained to fight..it was more for learning how to fight if i needed for the street..i use to box at exhibition bouts..it's ****ed i don't like it..if u box u know how it is..sparring is easy once ur in front of ppl you suddenly forget most what u've learned ..that's how it is with me..so i didn't see any point of competing anymore in front of ppl if i can't be like i am at sparring.

Not much cardio, but a good 5 mins at a relaxed pace can be help full. lots of muscles in the legs large muscles and your body has to work harder to power and recover those muscles. so by exercising those muscles even a little bit your body ends up releasing greater amounts of hormones for energy and recover then if you didnt spend those 5 mins walking at 4 mph...not to mention all the benefits of warming up for 5 mins before stretching and exercising.

So what you're saying is i should train my legs more often.