View Full Version : Where do you rank Naseem Hamed all-time?


dagrtst
01-11-2010, 03:40 PM
Where do you rank him among all the other featherweights? Do you think he's a P4P all-time great?

GameGod
01-11-2010, 04:15 PM
Are you joking? You expect Hamed to be on a Top 20 P4P of All-Time list? Realistically, Hamed is unlikely to be even among the Top 20 Featherweights of All-Time, forget P4P (where no one will have him in the Top 100). I have him ranked #49 in my Top 100 Featherweights of All-Time, and #1,162 on my Top 2,000 P4P Fighters of All-Time.

lyrical
01-11-2010, 04:18 PM
Are you joking? You expect Hamed to be on a Top 20 P4P of All-Time list? Realistically, Hamed is unlikely to be even among the Top 20 Featherweights of All-Time, forget P4P (where no one will have him in the Top 100). I have him ranked #49 in my Top 100 Featherweights of All-Time, and #1,162 on my Top 2,000 P4P Fighters of All-Time.

I have him 37th in all-time featherweights

Junito-Rulez
01-11-2010, 04:27 PM
I rank him top 70 in my ATG rankings.

dagrtst
01-11-2010, 04:38 PM
Are you joking? You expect Hamed to be on a Top 20 P4P of All-Time list? Realistically, Hamed is unlikely to be even among the Top 20 Featherweights of All-Time, forget P4P (where no one will have him in the Top 100). I have him ranked #49 in my Top 100 Featherweights of All-Time, and #1,162 on my Top 2,000 P4P Fighters of All-Time.

When I say Top 1-10 and Top 10-20, I'm referring to his ranking among featherweights. Not on a P4P all-time list.

tyger
01-11-2010, 05:07 PM
Naseem was good and beat a couple titlists even though Vazquez and Tom Johnson were at the end of their road. Unfortunitely for Naseem the featherweight division has a full and rich history full of special and great fighters. Naseem may not have the longetivity or the quality of opposition to be placed very high in the all time rankings.

The Noose
01-11-2010, 05:09 PM
Top 20 feather weights ATG.

HaglerSteelChin
01-12-2010, 12:42 AM
He dosent make my top 200 list. He just held the WBO title & Ibf- wbc(briefly), even Chris John rates higher- even if i thought he lost to JMM.

mickey malone
01-12-2010, 01:31 AM
Same old story with Naz..
Hugely underrated due to his own lack of dedication.. He grabbed the money and ran, and i have to admit, i've never forgiven him for doing so..

He was without doubt, a potentialy ATG FW, and had he remained focused & with the Ingle camp, would have improved his defense and become a legend..
P4P there's not too many fighters who hit as hard as him, Jimmy Wilde, Sandy Saddler, Wilfredo Gomez, Carlos Zarate, come to mind when comparing power..
I'd also suggest it's fair to say he had a very good chin aswell.. Due to a **** defense, he'd often take massive shots and bounce straight back up to KTFO of his opponent..
The likes of Kevin Kelly, Augie Sanchez & Tom Johnson could all bang, & were no mugs when they faced Hamed.. He made absolute clowns of Vasquez, Robinson & Hardy who once again, all had good reputations before they met him..

I personally don't like Hamed, but credit where it's due, other than a dodgy defense and an arrogant attitude, that ultimately ruined a potentialy great career, he was **** hot & without doubt, one of the most exciting fighters of his era.. It's also difficult to name too many FW's who would have dealt with his power, so to see other posters ranking him from 37 downwards is somewhat, a traversty of justice..
Somewhere between 10-20 at FW would be about right in my opinion..
P4P ATG Puncher - between 10-20 again..
P4P ATG fighter - somewhere between 100-200..

donkim
01-12-2010, 09:09 AM
I rate him more highly than Ricky Hatton and Joe Calzaghe.

John Hue
01-12-2010, 09:27 AM
As far as talent is concerned Hamed was an all time great, he had phenomenal power,very good chin ,was resilient and could bounce back straight away after he got in trouble. But he was a flawed character and did not pay enough attention to his craft and his deffence. His good wins were against good fighters who were just by their sell by date and the best fighter he fought was Barrera but in fairness the Hamed that turned up on fight night was a pathetic deluded idiot of a clown that had become complacent and too reliant on talent and self belief.With discipline and correct training and less show boating Hamed would have been able to beat them all. The main reason being is his power,it was too much and if he landed right that would be it. However the fact that he really stopped fighting after the Barrera loss. IMO down to his ego not the excuse of his hands was very lame. He did not beat enough really good fighters ,quit when beaten and did not make the full use of his talents,therefore I conclude he was not an all time great though undoubtedly he could have been.

bklynboy
01-12-2010, 06:01 PM
Same old story with Naz..
Hugely underrated due to his own lack of dedication.. He grabbed the money and ran, and i have to admit, i've never forgiven him for doing so..

He was without doubt, a potentialy ATG FW, and had he remained focused & with the Ingle camp, would have improved his defense and become a legend..
P4P there's not too many fighters who hit as hard as him, Jimmy Wilde, Sandy Saddler, Wilfredo Gomez, Carlos Zarate, come to mind when comparing power..
I'd also suggest it's fair to say he had a very good chin aswell.. Due to a **** defense, he'd often take massive shots and bounce straight back up to KTFO of his opponent..
The likes of Kevin Kelly, Augie Sanchez & Tom Johnson could all bang, & were no mugs when they faced Hamed.. He made absolute clowns of Vasquez, Robinson & Hardy who once again, all had good reputations before they met him..

I personally don't like Hamed, but credit where it's due, other than a dodgy defense and an arrogant attitude, that ultimately ruined a potentialy great career, he was **** hot & without doubt, one of the most exciting fighters of his era.. It's also difficult to name too many FW's who would have dealt with his power, so to see other posters ranking him from 37 downwards is somewhat, a traversty of justice..
Somewhere between 10-20 at FW would be about right in my opinion..
P4P ATG Puncher - between 10-20 again..
P4P ATG fighter - somewhere between 100-200..

Exactly, he had the potential to be a TOP 20 Featherweight. But he quit before we could find out; before he matured as a fighter and as a man.

bojangles1987
01-12-2010, 06:06 PM
I don't. He was an exciting fighter who didn't do anything near enough to be an ATG.

Sugarj
01-12-2010, 06:31 PM
Mickey and John have said what I think perfectly.

One other point is that his combination punching suffered after winning the title from Robinson. The Robinson fight was a superb display of elusive defense and superb combinations. As his title reign went on the combination work became less and less and he started relying on huge corkscrew uppercuts and lead right hands over the top. He started believing too much in his one punch power. What was more special though was his ability to avoid punches early on in his career

I honestly believe peak Hamed beats peak Barrera, I rate him that highly. But he doesn't belong in the same league in ATG terms.

If he was to have come back and beat Barrera then we could have started talking ATG. It separates the legends from the tallents, the ability to change tactics and come back from a good beating. Ray Leonard came back to beat Duran, Ali to beat Frazier, Pep to beat Saddler, Robinson to beat La Motta. Hamed will kick himself in years to come for not getting back in the ring with Barrera.

mickey malone
01-12-2010, 09:40 PM
Mickey and John have said what I think perfectly.

One other point is that his combination punching suffered after winning the title from Robinson. The Robinson fight was a superb display of elusive defense and superb combinations. As his title reign went on the combination work became less and less and he started relying on huge corkscrew uppercuts and lead right hands over the top. He started believing too much in his one punch power. What was more special though was his ability to avoid punches early on in his career

I honestly believe peak Hamed beats peak Barrera, I rate him that highly. But he doesn't belong in the same league in ATG terms.

If he was to have come back and beat Barrera then we could have started talking ATG. It separates the legends from the tallents, the ability to change tactics and come back from a good beating. Ray Leonard came back to beat Duran, Ali to beat Frazier, Pep to beat Saddler, Robinson to beat La Motta. Hamed will kick himself in years to come for not getting back in the ring with Barrera.
Rocket launchers, as he used to call them..

The way he treated Ingle was disgraceful.. He discovered Hamed when he was 7 years old, and turned him into a world beater, and one has to ask, 'For What'?

Yes, Hamed will be a very bitter man in years to come..

tanibanana
01-13-2010, 01:04 AM
Top 8-12 All Time Featherweight Great...

CarlosG815
01-13-2010, 08:36 PM
He was another fighter that cared more about his record than being a real champion. I remember he beat up on an old Kevin Kelly and that was probably the biggest fight he ever won.

He knew the day would come would he would have to stop running and face guys like Morales and Barrera, who at the time were in their prime and unbeatable, except by each other.

He knew he couldn't go toe to toe against Barrera and when he did he was exposed for the phony that he was.

How can anybody seriously praise this guy or use his name along with the term "all time great?" He had a strong punch and good speed, but no precision to his punches, lousy footing when throwing bombs and probably the worst defense of any fighter that ever held a belt, as brief as it was.

mickey malone
01-14-2010, 01:52 AM
He was another fighter that cared more about his record than being a real champion. I remember he beat up on an old Kevin Kelly and that was probably the biggest fight he ever won.

He knew the day would come would he would have to stop running and face guys like Morales and Barrera, who at the time were in their prime and unbeatable, except by each other.

He knew he couldn't go toe to toe against Barrera and when he did he was exposed for the phony that he was.

How can anybody seriously praise this guy or use his name along with the term "all time great?" He had a strong punch and good speed, but no precision to his punches, lousy footing when throwing bombs and probably the worst defense of any fighter that ever held a belt, as brief as it was.
I would'nt say that 5 years 3 belts and 15 straight defenses was brief..

Hamed won the WBO title in 1995 by knocking out Steve Robinson in 8 rounds..
He then went on to record 15 successful defenses (13 KO's) while also picking up the IBF and WBC belts along the way.. All in all he had 17 world title fights, only losing once in 2001 on points to Barrera, who is without doubt an ATG..

Here's some info on who he KO'd

Kevin Kelly 47-1-2
Paul Ingle UNBEATEN
Augie Sanchez 26-1-0
Tom Johnson 44-2-2
Daniel Molina UNBEATEN
Victor Bungu 37-2-0
Daniel Alicea UNBEATEN
Jose Badillo 20-1-0

You can add former world champs Manuel Medina & Wilfredo Vazquez to that list as well..
Only Wayne McCullough, Cesar Soto and of course Barrera lasted the distance, McCullough & Soto (who were both world champs) being soundly beaten..

To the best of my knowledge Hamed fought at least 9 world champs, beating 8 of them, not to mention the abundance of European Champs he left dazed on the canvas..
In my opinion, he was a lot better than you think..

GameGod
01-14-2010, 01:42 PM
Having revised my lists and made new ones yesterday, I now rank Hamed as the #57 on my list of the Top 1,000 Featherweights of All-Time, and #1,805 on my list of the Top 100,000 P4P Fighters of All-Time. Yes, I have too much time on my hands (believe it or not, I actually wrote a complicated description and reasoning for each position, looking at skills and attributes as well as achievements, records and resume, for each fighter I considered; I considered a little over 500,000, of which 100,000 made my big list).

GJC
01-14-2010, 05:19 PM
..

He was without doubt, a potentialy ATG FW, and had he remained focused & with the Ingle camp, would have improved his defense and become a legend..
I'd also suggest it's fair to say he had a very good chin aswell.. Due to a **** defense, he'd often take massive shots and bounce straight back up to KTFO of his opponent..


Amazing to think he came out of the same gym as Herol Graham who you couldn't hit with a handful of rice.

Tommy Dollars
01-14-2010, 05:59 PM
I don't think anybody could make a coherent case about Hamed being mentioned as a top 20 P4P fighter or even featherweight fighter. However, if we were talking about the most entertaining fighters of all time to watch, he'd be up there.

CarlosG815
01-14-2010, 06:21 PM
I don't think anybody could make a coherent case about Hamed being mentioned as a top 20 P4P fighter or even featherweight fighter. However, if we were talking about the most entertaining fighters of all time to watch, he'd be up there.

Yeah, does anybody remember his fight on Halloween against Mccollough?

mickey malone
01-14-2010, 08:01 PM
Amazing to think he came out of the same gym as Herol Graham who you couldn't hit with a handful of rice.
Ingle's master plan was for him to fight the same way, but as we know, Hamed had plans of his own..

The_Demon
01-14-2010, 08:08 PM
I would'nt say that 5 years 3 belts and 15 straight defenses was brief..

Hamed won the WBO title in 1995 by knocking out Steve Robinson in 8 rounds..
He then went on to record 15 successful defenses (13 KO's) while also picking up the IBF and WBC belts along the way.. All in all he had 17 world title fights, only losing once in 2001 on points to Barrera, who is without doubt an ATG..

Here's some info on who he KO'd

Kevin Kelly 47-1-2
Paul Ingle UNBEATEN
Augie Sanchez 26-1-0
Tom Johnson 44-2-2
Daniel Molina UNBEATEN
Victor Bungu 37-2-0
Daniel Alicea UNBEATEN
Jose Badillo 20-1-0

You can add former world champs Manuel Medina & Wilfredo Vazquez to that list as well..
Only Wayne McCullough, Cesar Soto and of course Barrera lasted the distance, McCullough & Soto (who were both world champs) being soundly beaten..

To the best of my knowledge Hamed fought at least 9 world champs, beating 8 of them, not to mention the abundance of European Champs he left dazed on the canvas..
In my opinion, he was a lot better than you think..


very well put,nice too see someone presenting facts instead of just saying 'hes was over-rated and got exposed barrera' like most people seem to do on here

mickey malone
01-14-2010, 08:31 PM
very well put,nice too see someone presenting facts instead of just saying 'hes was over-rated and got exposed barrera' like most people seem to do on here
I'd say that most of these lads were born in the late 80's, and are mostly Football fans..

The_Demon
01-14-2010, 08:41 PM
I'd say that most of these lads were born in the late 80's, and are mostly Football fans..

well you just described me :rofl:

but i get what you mean

Edward Hitler
01-14-2010, 08:49 PM
I would'nt say that 5 years 3 belts and 15 straight defenses was brief..

Hamed won the WBO title in 1995 by knocking out Steve Robinson in 8 rounds..
He then went on to record 15 successful defenses (13 KO's) while also picking up the IBF and WBC belts along the way.. All in all he had 17 world title fights, only losing once in 2001 on points to Barrera, who is without doubt an ATG..

Here's some info on who he KO'd

Kevin Kelly 47-1-2
Paul Ingle UNBEATEN
Augie Sanchez 26-1-0
Tom Johnson 44-2-2
Daniel Molina UNBEATEN
Victor Bungu 37-2-0
Daniel Alicea UNBEATEN
Jose Badillo 20-1-0

You can add former world champs Manuel Medina & Wilfredo Vazquez to that list as well..
Only Wayne McCullough, Cesar Soto and of course Barrera lasted the distance, McCullough & Soto (who were both world champs) being soundly beaten..

To the best of my knowledge Hamed fought at least 9 world champs, beating 8 of them, not to mention the abundance of European Champs he left dazed on the canvas..
In my opinion, he was a lot better than you think..


Augie Sanchez 26-1-0 who once beat Floyd jr 1 out of 3 times in the Olympic trials

CarlosG815
01-14-2010, 09:14 PM
I would'nt say that 5 years 3 belts and 15 straight defenses was brief..

Hamed won the WBO title in 1995 by knocking out Steve Robinson in 8 rounds..
He then went on to record 15 successful defenses (13 KO's) while also picking up the IBF and WBC belts along the way.. All in all he had 17 world title fights, only losing once in 2001 on points to Barrera, who is without doubt an ATG..

Here's some info on who he KO'd

Kevin Kelly 47-1-2
Paul Ingle UNBEATEN
Augie Sanchez 26-1-0
Tom Johnson 44-2-2
Daniel Molina UNBEATEN
Victor Bungu 37-2-0
Daniel Alicea UNBEATEN
Jose Badillo 20-1-0

You can add former world champs Manuel Medina & Wilfredo Vazquez to that list as well..
Only Wayne McCullough, Cesar Soto and of course Barrera lasted the distance, McCullough & Soto (who were both world champs) being soundly beaten..

To the best of my knowledge Hamed fought at least 9 world champs, beating 8 of them, not to mention the abundance of European Champs he left dazed on the canvas..
In my opinion, he was a lot better than you think..


Beating people with good records is bull****. To be great, you have to beat greats.

Naseem beat good fighters, but I would assume you agree with me when I say that Barrera was the first great boxer Naseem ever faced, and we saw what happened when a great fighter stepped in with a boxer with a great boxing record. And had he fought Morales at any point in his career it would have been much worse for Hamed. He'd have been hit more in that fight than he had in his entire career.

If you don't fight greats, you don't make the list.

Naseem will go down as one of boxing's great showmen who had a pretty record, dodged all but one top contender and got dismantled when he did.

mickey malone
01-14-2010, 11:35 PM
Beating people with good records is bull****. To be great, you have to beat greats.

Naseem beat good fighters, but I would assume you agree with me when I say that Barrera was the first great boxer Naseem ever faced, and we saw what happened when a great fighter stepped in with a boxer with a great boxing record. And had he fought Morales at any point in his career it would have been much worse for Hamed. He'd have been hit more in that fight than he had in his entire career.

If you don't fight greats, you don't make the list.

Naseem will go down as one of boxing's great showmen who had a pretty record, dodged all but one top contender and got dismantled when he did.
I agree with all of what you're saying, but what i'm trying to put across, is the Barrera fight would have taken a completely different path had he not left the Ingle camp to be trained by the incompitent Oscar Saurez..
Brendan Ingle discovered Hamed while he was waiting in traffic adjacent to a school playground, when he noticed this tiny little Kid steaming into 4 or 5 bigger kids that were attempting to bully him.. Hamed was 7 years old at the time, and so impressed was Ingle, he went in to see the headmaster, who in turn introduced him to Hameds parents, and the story began..
What i'm trying to say, is that Brendon Ingle, who i defy anyone to say is'nt a **** hot trainer, was Hamed's 'Boxing Godfather' who nurtured his every move nearly every day for 20 years..
I followed his career, and he was the first fighter i saw for the first time as an amateur, and instantly knew i was looking at a future world champion.. The only other time that happened was with David Haye..
Due to my studies, i could easily tell that the Hamed who fought Barrera and Manuel Calvo was not even remotely in the same mould as the one who destroyed everyone else..
Saurez, who i don't think has been heard of since, totally changed Hamed's style.. His timing, accuracy & movement had all deserted him to the point where it was only his immense natural strength, that kept him up against Barrera..

Both Morales and Barrera will be far ahead of Hamed in the ATG lists, and righty so due to their superior dedication, but had Naz a wee bit more respect for Ingle, I remain convinced he could have beaten both of them..

CarlosG815
01-15-2010, 01:31 AM
I agree with all of what you're saying, but what i'm trying to put across, is the Barrera fight would have taken a completely different path had he not left the Ingle camp to be trained by the incompitent Oscar Saurez..
Brendan Ingle discovered Hamed while he was waiting in traffic adjacent to a school playground, when he noticed this tiny little Kid steaming into 4 or 5 bigger kids that were attempting to bully him.. Hamed was 7 years old at the time, and so impressed was Ingle, he went in to see the headmaster, who in turn introduced him to Hameds parents, and the story began..
What i'm trying to say, is that Brendon Ingle, who i defy anyone to say is'nt a **** hot trainer, was Hamed's 'Boxing Godfather' who nurtured his every move nearly every day for 20 years..
I followed his career, and he was the first fighter i saw for the first time as an amateur, and instantly knew i was looking at a future world champion.. The only other time that happened was with David Haye..
Due to my studies, i could easily tell that the Hamed who fought Barrera and Manuel Calvo was not even remotely in the same mould as the one who destroyed everyone else..
Saurez, who i don't think has been heard of since, totally changed Hamed's style.. His timing, accuracy & movement had all deserted him to the point where it was only his immense natural strength, that kept him up against Barrera..

Both Morales and Barrera will be far ahead of Hamed in the ATG lists, and righty so due to their superior dedication, but had Naz a wee bit more respect for Ingle, I remain convinced he could have beaten both of them..

I understand your argument because I use a similar excuse for Tyson whenever I have the best heavyweight ever argument.

However, Hamed never did anything in any of his fights at any point in his career that was really impressive. If you look at early fights, like the Andy Bloomer bout, his style was basically an unperfected version of what it was in 2002. He did terribly sloppy lunge punches, sometimes with two fists. His face was always exposed and he threw himself off balance because the only defense tactic he ever used was lunging backwards while keeping his feet planted, throwing him even more off balance. Any great boxer would see these mistakes on film, anticipate his moves and pick him apart - exactly the way Barrera did.

Again I understand your argument but if you look at all the great boxers in boxing history, you won't find any greats that fought like him. His form and style of fighting was terrible. Everybody knows the most important job for any manager with a new fighter is having the ability to know your fighter and pick smart fights for him early on. The fact that he kept his record so pretty for so long just shows that he had a wonderful manager who knew how to pick his fights for him.

He put on a hell of a show though. I gotta admit I watched all of his fights live and enjoyed every entrance.

mickey malone
01-15-2010, 03:38 AM
I understand your argument because I use a similar excuse for Tyson whenever I have the best heavyweight ever argument.

However, Hamed never did anything in any of his fights at any point in his career that was really impressive. If you look at early fights, like the Andy Bloomer bout, his style was basically an unperfected version of what it was in 2002. He did terribly sloppy lunge punches, sometimes with two fists. His face was always exposed and he threw himself off balance because the only defense tactic he ever used was lunging backwards while keeping his feet planted, throwing him even more off balance. Any great boxer would see these mistakes on film, anticipate his moves and pick him apart - exactly the way Barrera did.

Again I understand your argument but if you look at all the great boxers in boxing history, you won't find any greats that fought like him. His form and style of fighting was terrible. Everybody knows the most important job for any manager with a new fighter is having the ability to know your fighter and pick smart fights for him early on. The fact that he kept his record so pretty for so long just shows that he had a wonderful manager who knew how to pick his fights for him.

He put on a hell of a show though. I gotta admit I watched all of his fights live and enjoyed every entrance.
Sure, the lunging backwards and forwards went to a new level under Saurez, but if you take a look at the Robinson and Vazquez fights, Hamed's defensive movements were nothing short of brilliant.. He made them both miss with everything they threw, and took them out when he decided.. Vazquez especially, I find it difficult to remeber a more one sided title fight..
Granted, Barrera's a better fighter than Vazquez, and i take on board what you say about good management, this being the case with Barrera, as they could'nt have got Hamed at a better time..
Once again, i'm not taking anything away from him, he boxed the perfect fight, making Hamed look a bit like a floundering oxygen thief, but this was the celebrity showman Hamed, who'd become spoiled, bored and unmotivated..
I found his entrances quite embarrassing, especially all that magic carpet, pray to Allah charade just b4 getting his ass whooped..

CarlosG815
01-15-2010, 03:57 AM
i take on board what you say about good management, this being the case with Barrera, as they could'nt have got Hamed at a better time..


I don't remember Barrera's camp ever ducking Hamed at any point. Hamed had to take the fight because he was being touted as the top p4p fighter at the time and it was time to face Barrera or Morales. He picked Barrera because he thought he had a better chance against him. I don't think Hamed could have beat Barrera at any point in his career and there is no evidence in any of his fights that show that he could.

And I never noticed any transition in his unorthodox circus type boxing style. He looked just as bad in the Vasquez fight as he did in all the rest ???

mickey malone
01-15-2010, 06:18 AM
I don't remember Barrera's camp ever ducking Hamed at any point. Hamed had to take the fight because he was being touted as the top p4p fighter at the time and it was time to face Barrera or Morales. He picked Barrera because he thought he had a better chance against him. I don't think Hamed could have beat Barrera at any point in his career and there is no evidence in any of his fights that show that he could.

And I never noticed any transition in his unorthodox circus type boxing style. He looked just as bad in the Vasquez fight as he did in all the rest ???
Have to disagree with regard to Vazquez.. Hamed's punch and not be punched skills were superb in that fight.. I don't know how to download vids, but you need to take a look at the last 2 rounds as Hamed closes off the ring and batters him from all sorts of peculiar angles.. Vazquez does'nt know what time of day it is!

Sure, i'd edge in favour of both Morales and Barrera (DC's) prime for prime, but if anyone could cause an upset, Hamed's ya man.. Under Ingle's guidence, he'd have one hell of a punchers chance, as i don't envisage either being able to KO him..

With ref to some of his opponents, let's assess what they were doing leading up to their fights with Naz.. I'll chose some of his better performances against 4 world champs, one European champ and 1 contender..
The most relevent being Vazquez, a 2 weight world champ (SBW & FW) who'd beaten the likes of Orlando Canizales, Genaro Rios, Freddie Cruz and Thierry Jacob 3 times.. He'd also KO'd Eloy Rojas, Manuel Mendoza and Raul Perez.. Earlier in his career, he'd dropped razor tight DC's to Khaokor Galaxy and Miguel 'happy' Lora.. A mug he was not..
Furthermore, he went on to win 6 from 7 of his last fights, 4 of them by KO, and retired with a record of 50-7-2 (37KO).. Vazquez can rightly be considered a very good fighter.

Hamed's best outing was in my opinion, the night he won the WBO title from Steve Robinson.. He switch hit from all angles & threw combo's in bunches, to leave poor old Stevo in right bloody mess.. Up until then, his career had taken off & he looked like being around for a very long time.. Much like Freddie Pendleton, he was a late developer who'd lost a lot of close DC's to a lot of good fighters, but had stepped in as a substitute to shock John Davison to become WBO champion & with a new lease of life was now on his 8th defense of the title.. Included in the previous 7, he'd strung together KO victories over 3 weight champ, Duke McKenzie, former WBC champ Paul Hodkinson, aswell as comfortable DC's over Freddie Cruz and Colin McMillan from whom he'd won the title.. No one ever did to Robinson what Hamed did to him..

Billy Hardy then beat Robinson for the Euro crown, and challenged Hamed who swatted him like a fly in less than a minute..
When Kevin Kelley stepped up to the plate, he was coming off a KO victory over the very useful Derrick 'smoke' Gainer.. He'd also had recent victories over former world champs, Jesse Benavides, Louisito Espinosa aswell as a draw with Clarence 'bones' Adams..
Manuel Medina's been in with everyone, and done pretty well too.. I think he's won & lost about 5 different world titles now, but nevertheless he's one tough SOB, and Naz stopped him in the 11th while coming down with flu..
Augie Sanchez was a very risky fight.. Although he was one of the few unaccomplished fighters on the list, he had 23 KO's in 24 fights including KO7 of a faded Jorge Paez and was rising fast and dangerously.. Hamed put him in hospital after 4 brutal rounds..

Hate to say it, but i do think that you undervalue him as a fighter..

JAB5239
01-15-2010, 06:21 AM
Have to disagree with regard to Vazquez.. Hamed's punch and not be punched skills were superb in that fight.. I don't know how to download vids, but you need to take a look at the last 2 rounds as Hamed closes off the ring and batters him from all sorts of peculiar angles.. Vazquez does'nt know what time of day it is!

Sure, i'd edge in favour of both Morales and Barrera (DC's) prime for prime, but if anyone could cause an upset, Hamed's ya man.. Under Ingle's guidence, he'd have one hell of a punchers chance, as i don't envisage either being able to KO him..

With ref to some of his opponents, let's assess what they were doing leading up to their fights with Naz.. I'll chose some of his better performances against 4 world champs, one European champ and 1 contender..
The most relevent being Vazquez, a 2 weight world champ (SBW & FW) who'd beaten the likes of Orlando Canizales, Genaro Rios, Freddie Cruz and Thierry Jacob 3 times.. He'd also KO'd Eloy Rojas, Manuel Mendoza and Raul Perez.. Earlier in his career, he'd dropped razor tight DC's to Khaokor Galaxy and Miguel 'happy' Lora.. A mug he was not..
Furthermore, he went on to win 6 from 7 of his last fights, 4 of them by KO, and retired with a record of 50-7-2 (37KO).. Vazquez can rightly be considered a very good fighter.

Hamed's best outing was in my opinion, the night he won the WBO title from Steve Robinson.. He switch hit from all angles & threw combo's in bunches, to leave poor old Stevo in right bloody mess.. Up until then, his career had taken off & he looked like being around for a very long time.. Much like Freddie Pendleton, he was a late developer who'd lost a lot of close DC's to a lot of good fighters, but had stepped in as a substitute to shock John Davison to become WBO champion & with a new lease of life was now on his 8th defense of the title.. Included in the previous 7, he'd strung together KO victories over 3 weight champ, Duke McKenzie, former WBC champ Paul Hodkinson, aswell as comfortable DC's over Freddie Cruz and Colin McMillan from whom he'd won the title.. No one ever did to Robinson what Hamed did to him..

Billy Hardy then beat Robinson for the Euro crown, and challenged Hamed who swatted him like a fly in less than a minute..
When Kevin Kelley stepped up to the plate, he was coming off a KO victory over the very useful Derrick 'smoke' Gainer.. He'd also had recent victories over former world champs, Jesse Benavides, Louisito Espinosa aswell as a draw with Clarence 'bones' Adams..
Manuel Medina's been in with everyone, and done pretty well too.. I think he's won & lost about 5 different world titles now, but nevertheless he's one tough SOB, and Naz stopped him in the 11th while coming down with flu..
Augie Sanchez was a very risky fight.. Although he was one of the few unaccomplished fighters on the list, he had 23 KO's in 24 fights including KO7 of a faded Jorge Paez and was rising fast and dangerously.. Hamed put him in hospital after 4 brutal rounds..

Hate to say it, but i do think that you undervalue him as a fighter..

Excellent post Mick! :fing02:

The_Demon
01-15-2010, 07:28 AM
Have to disagree with regard to Vazquez.. Hamed's punch and not be punched skills were superb in that fight.. I don't know how to download vids, but you need to take a look at the last 2 rounds as Hamed closes off the ring and batters him from all sorts of peculiar angles.. Vazquez does'nt know what time of day it is!

Sure, i'd edge in favour of both Morales and Barrera (DC's) prime for prime, but if anyone could cause an upset, Hamed's ya man.. Under Ingle's guidence, he'd have one hell of a punchers chance, as i don't envisage either being able to KO him..

With ref to some of his opponents, let's assess what they were doing leading up to their fights with Naz.. I'll chose some of his better performances against 4 world champs, one European champ and 1 contender..
The most relevent being Vazquez, a 2 weight world champ (SBW & FW) who'd beaten the likes of Orlando Canizales, Genaro Rios, Freddie Cruz and Thierry Jacob 3 times.. He'd also KO'd Eloy Rojas, Manuel Mendoza and Raul Perez.. Earlier in his career, he'd dropped razor tight DC's to Khaokor Galaxy and Miguel 'happy' Lora.. A mug he was not..
Furthermore, he went on to win 6 from 7 of his last fights, 4 of them by KO, and retired with a record of 50-7-2 (37KO).. Vazquez can rightly be considered a very good fighter.

Hamed's best outing was in my opinion, the night he won the WBO title from Steve Robinson.. He switch hit from all angles & threw combo's in bunches, to leave poor old Stevo in right bloody mess.. Up until then, his career had taken off & he looked like being around for a very long time.. Much like Freddie Pendleton, he was a late developer who'd lost a lot of close DC's to a lot of good fighters, but had stepped in as a substitute to shock John Davison to become WBO champion & with a new lease of life was now on his 8th defense of the title.. Included in the previous 7, he'd strung together KO victories over 3 weight champ, Duke McKenzie, former WBC champ Paul Hodkinson, aswell as comfortable DC's over Freddie Cruz and Colin McMillan from whom he'd won the title.. No one ever did to Robinson what Hamed did to him..

Billy Hardy then beat Robinson for the Euro crown, and challenged Hamed who swatted him like a fly in less than a minute..
When Kevin Kelley stepped up to the plate, he was coming off a KO victory over the very useful Derrick 'smoke' Gainer.. He'd also had recent victories over former world champs, Jesse Benavides, Louisito Espinosa aswell as a draw with Clarence 'bones' Adams..
Manuel Medina's been in with everyone, and done pretty well too.. I think he's won & lost about 5 different world titles now, but nevertheless he's one tough SOB, and Naz stopped him in the 11th while coming down with flu..
Augie Sanchez was a very risky fight.. Although he was one of the few unaccomplished fighters on the list, he had 23 KO's in 24 fights including KO7 of a faded Jorge Paez and was rising fast and dangerously.. Hamed put him in hospital after 4 brutal rounds..

Hate to say it, but i do think that you undervalue him as a fighter..

another great post.hes not the only poster who undervalues hamed as fighter,its hard too find people that give him his dues for his achievements.thankfully we have someone who knows their stuff

lyrical
01-16-2010, 03:13 PM
Brendan Ingle discovered Hamed while he was waiting in traffic adjacent to a school playground, when he noticed this tiny little Kid steaming into 4 or 5 bigger kids that were attempting to bully him.. Hamed was 7 years old at the time, and so impressed was Ingle, he went in to see the headmaster, who in turn introduced him to Hameds parents, and the story began..


Hamed himself has said that this story was BS and something Ingle made up for the media,

mickey malone
01-16-2010, 03:36 PM
Hamed himself has said that this story was BS and something Ingle made up for the media,
Interesting.. Why would he want to do that?

CarlosG815
01-16-2010, 05:07 PM
I'm not discrediting Mickey's boxing knowledge. He's obviously been around and knows his stuff, but regarding Prince, it's strictly opinion.

You guys siding with Mickey, I can't help but think that you're siding with him simply because it's coming from him.

If you can watch Naseem in any fights at any point in his career and say that I'm overlooking him for how good he was is bull****. Watch his fights and his terrible style of fighting, which is well known, and make an opinion for yourself, not just based on what other ppl write.

JAB5239
01-16-2010, 06:30 PM
I'm not discrediting Mickey's boxing knowledge. He's obviously been around and knows his stuff, but regarding Prince, it's strictly opinion.

You guys siding with Mickey, I can't help but think that you're siding with him simply because it's coming from him.

If you can watch Naseem in any fights at any point in his career and say that I'm overlooking him for how good he was is bull****. Watch his fights and his terrible style of fighting, which is well known, and make an opinion for yourself, not just based on what other ppl write.

His style of fighting was actually unique and effective because of his speed and power.

mickey malone
01-17-2010, 12:33 AM
I'm not discrediting Mickey's boxing knowledge. He's obviously been around and knows his stuff, but regarding Prince, it's strictly opinion.

You guys siding with Mickey, I can't help but think that you're siding with him simply because it's coming from him.

If you can watch Naseem in any fights at any point in his career and say that I'm overlooking him for how good he was is bull****. Watch his fights and his terrible style of fighting, which is well known, and make an opinion for yourself, not just based on what other ppl write.
Nah... These guys don't always agree with me, and visa versa..
If they did, I'd probably get bored & stop contributing..
You're right about it all being down to opinion, but the majority of boxing historians are of the opinion, that he was an exceptional talent..

I fully understand that he is'nt everyone's cup of tea, and for the boxing purist, he'd be pretty painful to watch, what with so many 'text book' flaws on display.. But in truth, he impressively KO'd 32 out of 36, mainly from angles that have'nt been attempted before..
It's just incredibly annoying, that he threw it all away.. Can you imagine what Chris Byrd would have done with George Foreman's power?, because, until the ego took over, that's exactly what Hamed equated to as a FW.. A strong chinned, unorthodox fighter who relied heavily on reflexes..

You have'nt overlooked him, you've undervalued him instead.. I mean how can you overlook or undervalue a fighter who spent 5 years of a boxing fans life, completely obliterrating everyone in Great Britain, Europe and the Commonwealth (only Vincenzo Belcastro lasting 12, but losing nearly every round) Then, off to pick up 3 world titles and KO six world champions while remaining active and unbeaten for a further 5 years.. A lot of these fighters had very experienced heads on their shoulders, but they all had one thing in common when it came to Hamed.. They did'nt have the foggiest idea on how to beat him, or a cat in hell's chance of actually doing it..
Even on the odd occasion when it did go the DC, it'd be a landslide majority, so to say he had a **** boxing style is 'one track' delusional..
Here's his record as a multiple titlist: 16-1-0 (14KO's).. These are the facts, and the reasons why you're a bit out numbered here, cos these lads will soon pull me up if the old heart starts ruling the head (again lol)..

Tsukiyomi
01-17-2010, 02:11 AM
I think top 20 is fair. He was a dangerous guy and had the talent for being more respected than he is.

I think there was too much style, and not enough substance in his game, though. His reluctance to fight the best opposition available, and his quitting after getting badly beaten by the best guy he fought takes the wind from his sails.

CarlosG815
01-17-2010, 01:50 PM
Nah... These guys don't always agree with me, and visa versa..
If they did, I'd probably get bored & stop contributing..
You're right about it all being down to opinion, but the majority of boxing historians are of the opinion, that he was an exceptional talent..

I fully understand that he is'nt everyone's cup of tea, and for the boxing purist, he'd be pretty painful to watch, what with so many 'text book' flaws on display.. But in truth, he impressively KO'd 32 out of 36, mainly from angles that have'nt been attempted before..
It's just incredibly annoying, that he threw it all away.. Can you imagine what Chris Byrd would have done with George Foreman's power?, because, until the ego took over, that's exactly what Hamed equated to as a FW.. A strong chinned, unorthodox fighter who relied heavily on reflexes..

You have'nt overlooked him, you've undervalued him instead.. I mean how can you overlook or undervalue a fighter who spent 5 years of a boxing fans life, completely obliterrating everyone in Great Britain, Europe and the Commonwealth (only Vincenzo Belcastro lasting 12, but losing nearly every round) Then, off to pick up 3 world titles and KO six world champions while remaining active and unbeaten for a further 5 years.. A lot of these fighters had very experienced heads on their shoulders, but they all had one thing in common when it came to Hamed.. They did'nt have the foggiest idea on how to beat him, or a cat in hell's chance of actually doing it..
Even on the odd occasion when it did go the DC, it'd be a landslide majority, so to say he had a **** boxing style is 'one track' delusional..
Here's his record as a multiple titlist: 16-1-0 (14KO's).. These are the facts, and the reasons why you're a bit out numbered here, cos these lads will soon pull me up if the old heart starts ruling the head (again lol)..

As I said earlier quoting a guys record is bull****.

Before every fight, at every pre fight conference, during every interview, and after every fight, everybody that talked to Prince asked the same question: "When are you going to fight Morales and Barrera?" and "Why are you fighting so and so?" and "Do you honestly believe that so and so belongs in the ring with you?"

When you're constantly being asked those questions it goes to show that the mass majority of people out there that know boxing want to see those fights, and want an answer as to why you're not taking them.

I could win a lot of fights myself if I picked out a bunch of Glass Joe's.

The fact is that when it came to fighting big fights, Naseem did everything in his power to stay out of the ring with them.

mickey malone
01-17-2010, 02:11 PM
As I said earlier quoting a guys record is bull****.

Before every fight, at every pre fight conference, during every interview, and after every fight, everybody that talked to Prince asked the same question: "When are you going to fight Morales and Barrera?" and "Why are you fighting so and so?" and "Do you honestly believe that so and so belongs in the ring with you?"

When you're constantly being asked those questions it goes to show that the mass majority of people out there that know boxing want to see those fights, and want an answer as to why you're not taking them.

I could win a lot of fights myself if I picked out a bunch of Glass Joe's.

The fact is that when it came to fighting big fights, Naseem did everything in his power to stay out of the ring with them.
If quoting records is BS then that in effect disqualifies you from the history section..

No further comment..

CarlosG815
01-17-2010, 02:44 PM
If quoting records is BS then that in effect disqualifies you from the history section..

No further comment..

There's a reason why Floyd's true greatness is in question. Because nobody cares about a 0 on your record when you don't fight the big fights.

Smokin'J
01-17-2010, 06:30 PM
There's a reason why Floyd's true greatness is in question. Because nobody cares about a 0 on your record when you don't fight the big fights.

Marquez must be a no one either since he lost to Mayweather.

Sugarj
01-17-2010, 07:07 PM
Hamed wanted the big fights! He wanted Barrera in like 95/96.....but Barrera lost to Junior Jones. he wanted Junior Jones......but Junior jones lost to McKinney. He wanted McKinney but McKinney moved up in weight! He also called out Azumah Nelson, who lost to Hernandez.

These were not Naz's fault!!! These were the guys in the mid to late 90s that everyone wanted to see him in with at the time.

Now Moralles was campaigning a division below Hamed. He should have come up to challenge Naz! It wasn't Naz's fault that Eric was in a different division. Neither he or Naz did a better job against a common opponent McCullough. When Moralles did come up it was late 2000 (September), and it was only April 2001 that Hamed stepped in with Barrera. Hardly grounds for criticism there! Barrera was clearly at the top of his game.......and he was the clear underdog, thats the esteem Hamed was held at that time.

Moralles wouldn't have been a favorite either with the bookies. He took seven rounds to dispose of the Kevin Kelly, who Naz had knocked out in four, three years previous. Then Moralles nearly lost to Guty Espades in February 2001!!! Even the Naz that fought Barrera may have beaten that Moralles!!!! The vast majority of boxing writers felt that Moralles's punch hadn't come up with him.

As for the fight with Marquez that didn't materialise, Marquez wasn't the star he is today, he hadn't beaten anyone really of note on the world scene before Freddie Norwood in 1999.

For all the criticism of Hamed's opponents, it wasn't his fault the big boys kept losing!

lyrical
01-21-2010, 05:23 PM
Interesting.. Why would he want to do that?

not too sure, I guess it sounded good.

Hamed said it in a book called 'Naseem Hamed and those he left behind" its a really, really boring book but the last chapter is great.

BritishBoxing92
01-21-2010, 05:26 PM
Where do you rank him among all the other featherweights? Do you think he's a P4P all-time great?

i would rate him top 10-20...he was a good fighter and had style :)

Ningy
01-21-2010, 09:08 PM
What'cha think of Naseem saying he'll be back later this year, or next year?

True Guru
01-21-2010, 10:35 PM
Vuyani Bungu (Naz KO4) -- Bungu prior to this bout was reigning IBF champion and had made 13 title defenses of that IBF crown with wins over Romero, Salud and McKinney twice to mention only a few. No defeats 8 years prior.
Cesar Soto (Naz WUD12) -- Soto was reigning WBC champion coming off a win over Luisito Espinosa (who at the time was still making waves.)
Paul Ingle (Naz TKO11) -- This is probably the weakest of former champions Naz defeated. However, prior to this Ingle was undefeated and after the Naz fight, Ingle went on to beat Manuel Medina and Junior Jones.
Wayne McCullough (Naz WUD12) -- Only one man had beaten McCullough prior to Naz and that was Zaragoza. Former WBC champion with an iron chin. I don't expect anyone to knock out a prime McCullough.
Wilfredo Vazquez (Naz TKO7) -- Vazquez prior to this bout was the reigning WBA champion with 3 successful defenses.
Kevin Kelley (Naz KO4) -- Former WBC champ. Not a prime Kevin Kelley but a Kevin Kelley who still had a big spark left.
Tom Johnson (Naz TKO8) -- Reigning IBF champion with 11 defenses under his belt.
Manuel Medina (Naz TKO11) -- What is this guy, a 4 time champion? I don't need to say too much more about Medina.

He beat all the other champs at his weight - by KO.
He held the WBO,IBF,WBC and then Knocked out the WBA champion but Naz was robbed of that title because of boxing politics.

CHECK THE SIG BIATCHES!!!

AddiX
01-21-2010, 10:42 PM
I'm a huge Hamed fan, but all time great status? Thats nuts

As far as switch stance fighters go he was an all time great, and as far as entertainment value def all time great.

But his accomplishments dont come close to all time great status.

But I will say this, boxing could def use a guy like him right now.

mickey malone
01-22-2010, 01:43 AM
not too sure, I guess it sounded good.

Hamed said it in a book called 'Naseem Hamed and those he left behind" its a really, really boring book but the last chapter is great.
Fuk...That was one of the stories that enlightened me..

lyrical
01-22-2010, 04:33 PM
What'cha think of Naseem saying he'll be back later this year, or next year?

are you serious, he is only joking, he says that every year.

he could possibly get a job with Sky that would be entertaining but there is no way he will ever fight again, he has been talking about coming back since 2004 and gets bigger and bigger

donkim
01-22-2010, 04:49 PM
he wanted Junior Jones.



He was supposed to fight Junior Jones in spring of 2000 but Jones pulled out when he remembered that he had a glass jaw.




As for the fight with Marquez that didn't materialise, Marquez wasn't the star he is today, he hadn't beaten anyone really of note on the world scene before Freddie Norwood in 1999.



Hamed offered Marquez a shot in summer of 2000 and amazingly...Marquez turned down the career high payday claiming that it "wasn't enough"

Dynamite Kid
01-22-2010, 05:15 PM
He was supposed to fight Junior Jones in spring of 2000 but Jones pulled out when he remembered that he had a glass jaw.








Hamed offered Marquez a shot in summer of 2000 and amazingly...Marquez turned down the career high payday claiming that it "wasn't enough"


Im not trying to pick an argument with you by why are their two interpretations of this? first i heard Steward advised Hamed to avoid JMM and that he ducked him then i heard it was JMM who did'nt want none.

Bright-Eyes
01-22-2010, 05:36 PM
Juan Manuel Marquez conceded Friday that he turned down a fight with Prince Naseem Hamed, the World Boxing Organization featherweight champion.Marquez, of Mexico City, will meet Daniel Jiminez of Puerto Rico in the 10-round featherweight main event Sunday at the Union Plaza. The six-bout card is scheduled to start at 11 a.m.

After being turned down by Marquez and reportedly others, Hamed went on to knock out Las Vegan Augie Sanchez in the fourth round Aug. 19 at Foxwoods in Mashantucket, Conn., in an HBO-televised fight.
"I had been waiting two years," said Marquez, speaking through a translator. "Now they want the fight. I wasn't prepared. They did not give me sufficient time to get prepared." Marquez had been the No. 1 WBO challenger for almost two years and did not get a shot at Hamed during that time, according to Fernando Beltran, Marquez's Mexican promoter.


Marquez, who turned 27 Wednesday, said Hamed is difficult to fight.
"Hamed is like a wrestler," Marquez said. "He will toss you around if he can. It is almost the same way with fighting (Freddie) Norwood. You have to knock him out to get the victory." Marquez lost a decision to Norwood, the World Boxing Association featherweight champion, in a title bout at Mandalay Bay on Sept. 11.Marquez said he would like to fight Hamed as the champion of one of the other sanctioning bodies. Otherwise, Marquez said, fighting Hamed "is not on even terms." Nacho Beristain, Marquez's manager, criticized the Hamed camp's negotiating tactics. "They want to get us when all of our energies are gone (from negotiating)," Beristain said. "They are only playing with our heads. We never want to fight (Hamed). Who do they think they are? They came out with an offer of $400,000. It is not worth it." Beristain said he thought it would be better to sign a contract with Top Rank to promote Marquez Beltran offered some contradiction, but it is probably a matter of semantics."We never turned down a fight with Hamed," Beltran said. "We knew they were only (BS-ing). We said, `Forget about it.' "

Beltran said he was working on a rematch with Norwood. Marquez is 31-2 since turning pro in 1993.




http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2000/Aug-26-Sat-2000/sports/14250555.html





There may have been some mind games played on Hamed's part,but I still think that Marquez should have took the offer.

Dynamite Kid
01-22-2010, 05:54 PM
Juan Manuel Marquez conceded Friday that he turned down a fight with Prince Naseem Hamed, the World Boxing Organization featherweight champion.Marquez, of Mexico City, will meet Daniel Jiminez of Puerto Rico in the 10-round featherweight main event Sunday at the Union Plaza. The six-bout card is scheduled to start at 11 a.m.

After being turned down by Marquez and reportedly others, Hamed went on to knock out Las Vegan Augie Sanchez in the fourth round Aug. 19 at Foxwoods in Mashantucket, Conn., in an HBO-televised fight.
"I had been waiting two years," said Marquez, speaking through a translator. "Now they want the fight. I wasn't prepared. They did not give me sufficient time to get prepared." Marquez had been the No. 1 WBO challenger for almost two years and did not get a shot at Hamed during that time, according to Fernando Beltran, Marquez's Mexican promoter.


Marquez, who turned 27 Wednesday, said Hamed is difficult to fight.
"Hamed is like a wrestler," Marquez said. "He will toss you around if he can. It is almost the same way with fighting (Freddie) Norwood. You have to knock him out to get the victory." Marquez lost a decision to Norwood, the World Boxing Association featherweight champion, in a title bout at Mandalay Bay on Sept. 11.Marquez said he would like to fight Hamed as the champion of one of the other sanctioning bodies. Otherwise, Marquez said, fighting Hamed "is not on even terms." Nacho Beristain, Marquez's manager, criticized the Hamed camp's negotiating tactics. "They want to get us when all of our energies are gone (from negotiating)," Beristain said. "They are only playing with our heads. We never want to fight (Hamed). Who do they think they are? They came out with an offer of $400,000. It is not worth it." Beristain said he thought it would be better to sign a contract with Top Rank to promote Marquez Beltran offered some contradiction, but it is probably a matter of semantics."We never turned down a fight with Hamed," Beltran said. "We knew they were only (BS-ing). We said, `Forget about it.' "

Beltran said he was working on a rematch with Norwood. Marquez is 31-2 since turning pro in 1993.




http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2000/Aug-26-Sat-2000/sports/14250555.html





There may have been some mind games played on Hamed's part,but I still think that Marquez should have took the offer.


I think it was during the JMM vs Norwood telecast that Larry Merchant was making out Hamed ducked JMM.

Bright-Eyes
01-22-2010, 06:07 PM
Marquez was Hamed's mandatory challenger from 1998-2000(i think).The argument for Hamed avoiding Marquez is there but what the likes of Max Kellerman(who should know this anyway) always fail to mention is that Hamed did turn around and offer him a shot,and for good money too.

Sugarj
01-22-2010, 06:51 PM
Hi Donkim, your quite right there. Hamed didn't duck those guys.

lyrical
01-23-2010, 06:28 AM
Has anybody read the Mi Vida Loca book by Johnny Tapia?

He said that Hamed pulled out of a fight with him too.

I am a Hamed fan though, he bought alot of fans to the sport

Silencers
01-23-2010, 12:28 PM
I think Hamed deserves more credit than he gets now but I don't think he's an ATG.