I told everyone, if Ruiz is not allowed to fight illegally, he will get outclassed by any top 10 heavyweight. Ruiz had the damn nerve to claim he is better than the rest of the HW champs when he couldnt even defeat an overweight Toney. Toney punished Ruiz and exposed him yet again. I hope Ruiz does retire, he is a ****ing joke. Anyone that supports Ruiz is either biased because of his nationality, or crazy. All of his big wins were directly influenced by either Don King(Golota fight) or his ILLEGAL hugging. No boxer should be allowed to clinch more than he lands punches, he should be disqualified for that. Ruiz is a joke and I hope he never gets another title shot again.

ruiz, despite his ugly style, still racked up wins against some of the top contenders in the heavyweight division. The word exposed should not be used cause noone called Ruiz a great fighter. He was just a Heavyweight title holder in a weak division.

The real joke is the entire heavyweight division and the fact that they suck so much that they couldn't beat a guy who clinched a lot. From what I saw last night, Ruiz stopped hugging because Toney was beating him up on the inside. Any decent fighter would have never let Ruiz pull his wrestling bull****. Ruiz deserves every one of those wins of Johnson, Rahman, and Oquendo if those guys were too indept to beat a frigging clincher.

Toney has just exposed the entire division for what it is, the poorest heavyweight crop EVER. I would pick a 165 lb Bob Fitzsimmons to KO Ruiz, Kirk Johnson, Rahman, or Oquendo early and with ease. These guys just can't fight on the inside...

A true credible heavyweight fight would be between Byrd and Toney...Both former middleweights.

2 heavyweights who possess the complete package skills in the division.

Last night sucked though because we still have 4 heavyweight champs...


Zab-About your sig isnt it odd that King is standing next to Toney and not Goosen??? *CoughBerbickCough*

King is loving the options he got on Toney.

yeah but DON KING is a CAM WHORE he jumps in every shot he can get

ruiz, despite his ugly style, still racked up wins against some of the top contenders in the heavyweight division. The word exposed should not be used cause noone called Ruiz a great fighter. He was just a Heavyweight title holder in a weak division.


he called himself a great fighter. so did a lot of his puerto rican fans, and his ugly style is illegal.

yeah but DON KING is a CAM WHORE he jumps in every shot he can get


Still bothers the hell out of me...Hopefully though since all of the other fighters a tied up in fights right now. Toney goes to the drawing board and decides Byrd is the best fight for him at the moment.

Really though if that fight was talked about in a week or two and then negotiations came in play a July or August date in Michigan would be great as hell.

Considering it is a Don King card he could throw together an awesome night of boxing in Michigan and possibly line up a Mayorga fight the Byrd/Toney fight and another heavyweight fight....Why not throw Daniel Santos on there as well???


Ruiz was an average fighter who beat average fighters...I wont give him no respect because of his style, there are a lot of fighters I dont like but will still give them respect. Having Ruiz as champ proved that an ordinary fighter can accomplish a lot in the sport. I would use the word great but some people would disagree although he did fairly well in the sport.

Let me ask you people this. If Toney beats Byrd convincingly, will Toney be recognized as the true champion of the division?

Let me ask you people this. If Toney beats Byrd convincingly, will Toney be recognized as the true champion of the division?


no. If he beats Vitali, he will be the true champ. However, he wont beat Vitali, too large of a mountain to climb.

Let me ask you people this. If Toney beats Byrd convincingly, will Toney be recognized as the true champion of the division?


In my book yes, because who have all of the other champions beaten?

Byrd and Ruiz were tied at my number 1 and since Toney convincingly beat Ruiz if he fought Byrd (my number 1 as well) then he would be the main champion in my book.

However people will dispute that and consider Vitali the champ, although Vitali has fought **** opponents and gave a valiant losing effort to Lewis and won his belt by fighting a fighter who didnt even want to fight.

When Byrd or Toney unifies THAT is who will be my recognized champ...But right now at number 1 is Byrd and Toney....Although they dont have to unify together to be considered my champ...

Ruiz is not and never will be a great fighter..I think we all know that for sure. However, last night I watched him put up a much more decent fight than ever..and he should get some credit for that. There were so many time that I watched him start to clinch (almost like a habit) and then force himself not to. He made a concious effort to NOT hold. I dont think in the first 4 rd's that it had much to do with Toney whippin him cause Ruiz won 2 of the first 4 anyway....it genuinely seemed he was trying to be more crowd pleasing. He just got tagged too many times with that right hand, and he tired much too quickly. I'm not defending him in any way..I just thought he should get atleast a bit of credit for trying to fight in a style that is completely foreign to him..just to please the fans (for a change).
Am I the only one that noticed him deliberately pulling his arms back when he would start to grab Toney?

Ruiz is not and never will be a great fighter..I think we all know that for sure. However, last night I watched him put up a much more decent fight than ever..and he should get some credit for that. There were so many time that I watched him start to clinch (almost like a habit) and then force himself not to. He made a concious effort to NOT hold. I dont think in the first 4 rd's that it had much to do with Toney whippin him cause Ruiz won 2 of the first 4 anyway....it genuinely seemed he was trying to be more crowd pleasing. He just got tagged too many times with that right hand, and he tired much too quickly. I'm not defending him in any way..I just thought he should get atleast a bit of credit for trying to fight in a style that is completely foreign to him..just to please the fans (for a change).
Am I the only one that noticed him deliberately pulling his arms back when he would start to grab Toney?


Nope not the only one and Lampley made note of this, I think Ruiz thought he could actually outbox Toney which was a mistake but he wanted to be so desperately received as the real heavyweight champ it had cost him. I feel bad for Ruiz actually and hope he can rebound from it.

Early in his career Ruiz wasnt the borish type of fighter everyone makes him out to be, prior to the Tua fight Ruiz never did much clinching...I think the clinching issue was a means of insecurity myself.

Ruiz gets my praise for always fighting the best and coming through...I cant hate a mans accomplishments because of his style...I hate lots of fighters styles, I hate Zab Judah to hell but I give him props for becoming undisputed and it is no different with Ruiz.

Ruiz is a joke and always has been. The fact that he held a belt was evidence to the dismal state of the division.

I hope James Toney doesn't break an arm patting himself on the back.

Dont hate on John, its bad enough hes associated with Don King, We all knew John sucked since the beginning of time,lets just all be glad for how long John stayed champ,I hate John, that clown, Im aJohn Ruiz hater just like you now that i think about it, He sucks, hes lost to 2 former 156 pound fighters

Nope not the only one and Lampley made note of this, I think Ruiz thought he could actually outbox Toney which was a mistake but he wanted to be so desperately received as the real heavyweight champ it had cost him. I feel bad for Ruiz actually and hope he can rebound from it.

Early in his career Ruiz wasnt the borish type of fighter everyone makes him out to be, prior to the Tua fight Ruiz never did much clinching...I think the clinching issue was a means of insecurity myself.

Ruiz gets my praise for always fighting the best and coming through...I cant hate a mans accomplishments because of his style...I hate lots of fighters styles, I hate Zab Judah to hell but I give him props for becoming undisputed and it is no different with Ruiz.

As long as he puts up the fight he did last night, I have no problem watching him . I was more impressed with him than I was with Toney..who predicted a ko over and over...week after week, yet didnt pull it off. The point taken for the knockdown was lame..it was clear that Toney stepped on his foot and Ruiz isnt known for 'great' balance anyway :o . It's just weird that he finally put on a decent performance and lost ..and now is talking retirement. I never thought I'd see the day where I didnt want him to do just that..but the way he fought last night was slightly better than some of the other heavies out there right now (not assuming he'd always fight that way though)

**** him -good riddance

lol at lampley saying that toneys jiggling FAT on toney's ribcage allows him to take a punch..I think toney heard.right after he landed a powerful counter right

lol at lampley saying that toneys jiggling FAT on toney's ribcage allows him to take a punch..I think toney heard.right after he landed a powerful counter right

Lol, well, it does add padding..dont you think? :D

As long as he puts up the fight he did last night, I have no problem watching him . I was more impressed with him than I was with Toney..who predicted a ko over and over...week after week, yet didnt pull it off. The point taken for the knockdown was lame..it was clear that Toney stepped on his foot and Ruiz isnt known for 'great' balance anyway :o . It's just weird that he finally put on a decent performance and lost ..and now is talking retirement. I never thought I'd see the day where I didnt want him to do just that..but the way he fought last night was slightly better than some of the other heavies out there right now (not assuming he'd always fight that way though)


While Ruiz may have given his best performance if he continues to fight this way he will continue to lose to a lot of the defensive fighters in the division (which there are quite a few in the top 10)

The knockdown was bogus no doubt about it, but the scoring was so distant it wouldnt have made an impact really.

I liked Ruiz just because he rose above the top competition and defeated everybody but was ordinary...I still hate his style and fell asleep through most of his fights but his determination was high...Ruiz never was a quitter.

what about when he dogged it in holy 2 from a bodyshot

While Ruiz may have given his best performance if he continues to fight this way he will continue to lose to a lot of the defensive fighters in the division (which there are quite a few in the top 10)

The knockdown was bogus no doubt about it, but the scoring was so distant it wouldnt have made an impact really.

I liked Ruiz just because he rose above the top competition and defeated everybody but was ordinary...I still hate his style and fell asleep through most of his fights but his determination was high...Ruiz never was a quitter.

Good points spinks. His style used to make me mad..I dont know who I would get madder at..him, or the ref. for allowing it. I know last nights ref. kept telling him "good job" when he wouldnt hold..or when he let go of Toney. Not used to seeing a ref. do that :eek:

no. If he beats Vitali, he will be the true champ. However, he wont beat Vitali, too large of a mountain to climb.

Why would you not consider him the true champ if he unifies the two belts?

I mean Vitali's recent opposition hasn't been that strong.


P.S. When will Vitali be alright (from the injury)?

Jack-In the fall suspected around September.

Tracy-I know how you feel was so pissed during the Rahman fight, I was up and screaming to just throw Ruiz down.....

I wonder if Ruiz took the "Very Good" as he was doing well in the fight and thats why he kept fighting the way he did. :)....What you think?

Last night, I was actually screaming at Ruiz to hold...

The only thing exposed was the politics that robbed Ruiz of his belt last night.

The only thing exposed was the politics that robbed Ruiz of his belt last night.


No politics, Ruiz boxed and got outboxed. No disputing the decision and the knockdown wouldnt have mattered anyway and the fight would have been still in the favor of Toney.

Express yours views in detail, I am anxious to hear why you think Ruiz was robbed.

Ruiz as never knocked down. He had a fat Toney trip his ass and yet the biased judge called a knock down. Every time Ruiz clinched the ref warned him, but when Toney did it he didn't say ****. Ruiz showed the superior activity with great footwork and blazing handspeed. The judges were paid off because they missed half of those jabs landing on the nose of Toney. Public opinion robbed Ruiz of his belt because fans these days don't appreciate skills like Ruiz demonstrates but just want a gladiator match with one boxer getting put into a coma.

Ruiz as never knocked down. He had a fat Toney trip his ass and yet the biased judge called a knock down. Every time Ruiz clinched the ref warned him, but when Toney did it he didn't say ****. Ruiz showed the superior activity with great footwork and blazing handspeed. The judges were paid off because they missed half of those jabs landing on the nose of Toney. Public opinion robbed Ruiz of his belt because fans these days don't appreciate skills like Ruiz demonstrates but just want a gladiator match with one boxer getting put into a coma.


It was ruled a knockdown and it wasnt a trip, Toney stepped on his foot. The scorecard wouldnt have mattered anyways.

When Ruiz clinched it was because he was coming forward, fighters usually clinch when they are in trouble not when coming forwards. This is illegal and is not tolerated by most officials. When Toney was clinching it was when he was backed up onto the ropes and fighting very closely, still illegal none the less but not as bad as coming forward and clinching.

Superior activity? Ruiz was in bad conditioning and was breathing hard from the early part of the fight and telegraphing punches, so how does an exhausted winded fighter possess blazing hand speed?

Ruiz does NOT have great footwork and never has and always plodded flat footed, he was an idiot for thinking he could be a mover especially against Toney.

For every light fisted jab Ruiz threw Toney crushed him with a right...Some judges look out for power and thats the way the sport is...

To bad there wasnt a judge who looks out for clinching right?

Ruiz as never knocked down. He had a fat Toney trip his ass and yet the biased judge called a knock down. Every time Ruiz clinched the ref warned him, but when Toney did it he didn't say ****. Ruiz showed the superior activity with great footwork and blazing handspeed. The judges were paid off because they missed half of those jabs landing on the nose of Toney. Public opinion robbed Ruiz of his belt because fans these days don't appreciate skills like Ruiz demonstrates but just want a gladiator match with one boxer getting put into a coma.

Blazing handspeed? Toney was far faster than Ruiz..which is why he kept landing that right hand :confused:

Jack-In the fall suspected around September.

Tracy-I know how you feel was so pissed during the Rahman fight, I was up and screaming to just throw Ruiz down.....

I wonder if Ruiz took the "Very Good" as he was doing well in the fight and thats why he kept fighting the way he did. :)....What you think?

Last night, I was actually screaming at Ruiz to hold...

I dont know Spinks..I just assumed he knew the ref. was congradulating him on NOT holding..but that could be part of it too.

Blazing handspeed? Toney was far faster than Ruiz..which is why he kept landing that right hand :confused:


I know what you mean..Ruiz threw a jab and I was like good punch by Ruiz and all of a sudden I see an arm being retracted from Ruiz face from Toney hitting him with a punch....Toney was slick as hell.

come on you two the pretender is full of **** all his posts are like that, he's just ****ing around

I know what you mean..Ruiz threw a jab and I was like good punch by Ruiz and all of a sudden I see an arm being retracted from Ruiz face from Toney hitting him with a punch....Toney was slick as hell.

Exactly! If he could have defended himself better against that right hand, things may have gone a little diffeently (maybe). Being slower and in less than perfect condition were his downfall I'd say.

Ruiz as never knocked down. He had a fat Toney trip his ass and yet the biased judge called a knock down. Every time Ruiz clinched the ref warned him, but when Toney did it he didn't say ****. Ruiz showed the superior activity with great footwork and blazing handspeed. The judges were paid off because they missed half of those jabs landing on the nose of Toney. Public opinion robbed Ruiz of his belt because fans these days don't appreciate skills like Ruiz demonstrates but just want a gladiator match with one boxer getting put into a coma.
Please leave the boards you ****in scammer

We know u really some other guy tryin to be someone else

please do us a favor and leave..