DAMN IT!!!!

Ohh well, at least I made some points :-)

Toney Wins by UD!!!!!!

any thoughts

****er wins!!!!

At least Ruiz is gone! :D

wow...Toney won

here comes the toney fans, we will never hear the end of this. plz god end the world now.

YES!!!!!!!!!
no more hugging :D

Toney won! I thought Ruiz might win, but I did not see much clinching from him like he always do...Congrats to Toney!

James Toney, the 5'9 overweight middleweight has won the heavyweight championship and has further pushed the heavyweight division underground.

i knew it darth warrior pay up

Skill...

how does this guy always have the conditioning to go 12 rounds? He is a 15 round fighter even with a pot belly...Ruiz knocked Holyfield down...Ruiz stunned Jones in the first...Ruiz stunned Golata...Ruiz stunned Oquendo...yet he did nothing to Toney...

Toney continues his road to greatness

Well what do yall think of Jones saying Toney can beat Vitali?

Toney is the saviour of the division.

Yay!!!!!

No More Huggy Bear!!!

H.B.O.

Home Boys Only


LOL.

James Toney, the 5'9 overweight middleweight has won the heavyweight championship and has further pushed the heavyweight division underground.
Regardless of his height or weight.....JT has always had a big heart.
This time around, I bet realtime, not fantasy and won $4,500-00. I was always of the opinion that JT could beat Ruiz. After all, if RJ jnr did it...so too, would Toney!

Skill...

how does this guy always have the conditioning to go 12 rounds? He is a 15 round fighter even with a pot belly...Ruiz knocked Holyfield down...Ruiz stunned Jones in the first...Ruiz stunned Golata...Ruiz stunned Oquendo...yet he did nothing to Toney...

Toney continues his road to greatness

i agreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Toney is going to KILL Klitschko!

"Imma Kill Klitschko!"

We have a new phony as a champion now. Before it was Ruiz, now we have a 5'9 overweight middleweight, this is going to make the heavyweight division look even worse.

Well what do yall think of Jones saying Toney can beat Vitali?
No way Jose! VK will pound him away! Against Ruiz, whom I had no respect for as a heavyweight, he could do the business. VK is another story altogether!

Toney has won me a bit of money tonight so i have to say good on him!

We have a new phony as a champion now. Before it was Ruiz, now we have a 5'9 overweight middleweight, this is going to make the heavyweight division look even worse.

How is that going to make the division look even worse?

Toney is a great fighter.
I would rather have Toney as champ any day over John Ruiz.

We have a new phony as a champion now. Before it was Ruiz, now we have a 5'9 overweight middleweight, this is going to make the heavyweight division look even worse.


To be honest with you I sort of agree with you.....

How is that going to make the division look even worse?

Toney is a great fighter.
I would rather have Toney as champ any day over John Ruiz.

he is just worried about aesthetics...he wants every HW champ to be 6'5, 240lbs of muscle...

diversity is great...especially when the little guy has a big mouth and the skills to back it up

Toney is so full of ****!!!**** Toney!!!
Vitali will knock Toney the **** out!!!

Well what do yall think of Jones saying Toney can beat Vitali? I found that just as funny as Ruiz complaining that Toney had hit him behind the head, especially after he held Toney down and AIMED 3 consecutive shots to the back Toney's head.

I disagree, James Toney makes the heavyweight division look better than it has in a little while. I'll have to see more of Vitali's fights but judging just off his last fight against Danny, I'd say James can get im.

No way Jose! VK will pound him away! Against Ruiz, whom I had no respect for as a heavyweight, he could do the business. VK is another story altogether!
Vitali is no Ruiz either

Plus VITALI CAN JAB!

what does lights out gotta do now to prove he is foreal?

Who's ready for Ruiz-Toney II?

He's going to beat Klitschko. You'll see.

We have a new phony as a champion now. Before it was Ruiz, now we have a 5'9 overweight middleweight, this is going to make the heavyweight division look even worse.

The worst thing the heavyweight division could be in is to have a champion who's a molester in the ring; always hug hug hug, kiss kiss kiss.

At least now, we have a champion who knows boxing, not wrestling.

So many Toney haters...

Ruiz still never gave an interview.. I don't blame him

The worst thing the heavyweight division could be in is to have a champion who's a molester in the ring; always hug hug hug, kiss kiss kiss.

At least now, we have a champion who knows boxing, not wrestling.

You just can't appreciate the brilliant tactician that Ruiz happens to be, always thinking about his grapples 10 steps ahead of his opponent!

I don't like Ruiz, the guy is a terrible boxer, but I would rather have Ruiz as champion over Toney anyday.

Well what do yall think of Jones saying Toney can beat Vitali?
I'm in no way a VK fan, but when Jones said that I just had to laugh. Toney should try his hand at Brewster or Byrd before even thinking about VK. VK is much too big, powerful, and smart for Toney, no matter how good of a fight he can TALK.

....Jack, he has nothing to beat Vitali with. That fight would be such a mismatch!!! Vitali will jab his fat face off and maybe knock his ass out cold within 6 rounds.

No I am not trying to piss anyone off, but I told you so. From the minute the James Toney vs. John Ruiz fight was signed I said that Toney was way too skilled for Ruiz. And everyday I had tons of people saying Ruiz was going to knock Toney out or decision him. People also kept bringing up the weight issue, I knew weight wouldn't be a problem in this fight. It was a simple prediction and simple fight too pick. Toney is a great fighter and Ruiz is an average fighter, Toney has hall of fame boxing skills and Ruiz has hall of shame boxing skills. Thats why Toney won and is now the new WBA heavyweight champion. Spinksjinx let me see that new James Toney signature. :D :cool:

Hopefully we never see John Ruiz again.

Toney schooled him. :boxing:

what does lights out gotta do now to prove he is foreal?


I am sold, hell of a fight I actually stayed awake and didnt check the clock throughout the whole fight...It went by quickly.

Toney showed he could overcome diversity, I have to take my hat off to Ruiz though and still give him respect. He fought a peoples fight and it costed him but his stock rose in my book. If he continues to fight that way.

I believe Toney will do good but still this win by Toney means squat to the heavyweight division as a whole, because we still have 4 heavyweight champions.

Toney needs to go straight to Byrd and talk unification in Michigan, aside from Vitali vs Byrd this is probably the biggest you will get in the division.

Hats off to both fighters for giving me an excellent night of fights and I can say I am pleased to have watched it even Ruiz.

Good Night, Great Fight!

In any case, I want to congradulate James Toney on his win, and for all the people who have made points from his victory. Also thank god that Ruiz is no longer fighting and we dont have to watch his terrible fights.

i am so glad toney won! i'm a puerto rican and i hate john ruiz. that shows how bad he is. toney made it look almost easy. his handspeed was too much for ruiz. ruiz kept getting caught with that lead read when he was falling in after throwing a 1-2

Toney brings a lil more excitement to the division, but his style wont wow a lof of people. He doesnt have the power that has always been the glamor in the heavyweight but he can easly beat Brewster and Bryd for their titles. But he will never beat Vitali. He doesnt have the power to dent Vitali nor those he have the height to challange him. But im glad hes here.

i kinda feel bad for Ruiz he tried to change cause he wants people to like him. Think about it its sucks to know that the whole world hates you.

I am sold, hell of a fight I actually stayed awake and didnt check the clock throughout the whole fight...It went by quickly.

Toney showed he could overcome diversity, I have to take my hat off to Ruiz though and still give him respect. He fought a peoples fight and it costed him but his stock rose in my book. If he continues to fight that way.

I believe Toney will do good but still this win by Toney means squat to the heavyweight division as a whole, because we still have 4 heavyweight champions.

Toney needs to go straight to Byrd and talk unification in Michigan, aside from Vitali vs Byrd this is probably the biggest you will get in the division.

Hats off to both fighters for giving me an excellent night of fights and I can say I am pleased to have watched it even Ruiz.

Good Night, Great Fight!
Yeah, great fight, much better than I expected. Props to Toney for ridding us of the champion Ruiz. I think he should go after Brewster next while Vitali takes care of Byrd. Than we can see a unification bout, which I doubt Toney will be able to last 6 rounds. The other heavyweights are just too inferior to VK.

JT is like a sleeper car. You see a 4 door wagon and you think your Mustang is gonna kill it. Then all you see is the ass end of the wagon leaving you behind. That's JT. He'll lull you into thinking you got him tired and then BAM! Your nose is bleeding, your stepping back, you can't breath, your liver is swollen, your kidneys are bleeding....

Even though I totally despise the win by Toney, looking back at it I think this fight has given a bit of a spark to the heavyweight division, this is sort of contradicting to what I've said before. I think that so far this is by far the most memorable heavyweight fight of the year.

RUIZ<----------------Good Riddance!

I think King will Match Ruiz with Byrd or the brewster/Golota winner. We`ll never be rid of Ruiz, he is never going to leave. We`ll have to do it ourselves!

Who's ready for Ruiz-Toney II?
No One !

I agree with everything u just said. Toney has tremendous boxing talent. Great combination of punches and great knowledge in the ring. Ruiz is a no talent wrestler who should go join the WWE. Although I was pretty impressed with Toney's win today, I don't see him beating Vitali or Tyson.

Lights out rules.

James Toney is one of the great fighters of recent times.
Good call, Mayweatherfan.

Ruiz is such a f****ing idiot.
I knew Toney was going to win, but I didnt actually think John Ruiz would once again try and box with a boxer . Once again, like with RJJ, he tried to fight upright and show he's not a boring fighter and wound up getting outpointed.

I was looking forward to a fight where Ruiz does his usual jab-n-grab style..and Toney tear it to pieces. instead we had ruiz trying to bounce on his toes and lose a 12 round decision.

I saw nothing to think that he could take Vitali. He didnt work ruiz to the body enough. he's going to have to work the body 2X to what he did to Ruiz tonight to be V-Klit.

Vitali might not be that good of a boxer, but he's a tough SOB. which means toney's workrate going to have to increase substantially to win against Vit.

James Toney is one of the great fighters of recent times.
Good call, Mayweatherfan.

Thanks, don't you agree also that this wasn't that tough of a fight to pick? I mean knew that Ruiz is an average heavyweight and Toney is a hall of fame fighter. I think people started picking Ruiz just for the hell of it.

Thanks, don't you agree also that this wasn't that tough of a fight to pick? I mean knew that Ruiz is an average heavyweight and Toney is a hall of fame fighter. I think people started picking Ruiz just for the hell of it.
Toney was a great middleweight, but Hall of Fame? He's in the heavyweights now and he is on par with fighters like Brewster and Danny Williams. I doubt he can beat Byrd, much less challenge the king.

james toney can beat brewster with ease ,he can beat byrd but it would be a difficult fight just bacause byrd's defense is real good but i would still pick toney . vitali is a different story the thing that concerns me the most is the height not his boxing skills toney would have to eat alot of jabs if toney was 6'7 he beats vitali easy.

I think King will Match Ruiz with Byrd or the brewster/Golota winner. We`ll never be rid of Ruiz, he is never going to leave. We`ll have to do it ourselves!
Why would King give up his titles to Toney. If he matches up Galota Vs. Ruiz, Ruiz already beat him once.. he will get the WBO (assuming Golota beats Brewster)and than Toney will get that in a rematch!

Why not give Brewster, or Golota a chance to take the WBA back?

The conditioning of both fighters was really surprising...i dont care much about ruiz..but Toney should have reduced that belly a little. The fight was not all that bad but i'm still a little disappointed. if Toney really wanted this, he should have been prepared better...and i dont think he can take on any of the klitchko's he will hurt himself..

Toney was a great middleweight, but Hall of Fame?
Successfully defended his IBF Middleweight Title 6 times, gave it up to win the IBF Super Middleweight Title, successfully defended 3 times before losing it to Jones, IBF Cruiserweight Title, now WBA Heavyweight title and an overall record of 69-4-2 with 43 KOs.

Yeah. He has definitely earned a spot in the Hall of Fame if he never fights again. Love him or hate him, you can't deny he has done amazing things in his career.

Successfully defended his IBF Middleweight Title 6 times, gave it up to win the IBF Super Middleweight Title, successfully defended 3 times before losing it to Jones, IBF Cruiserweight Title, now WBA Heavyweight title and an overall record of 69-4-2 with 43 KOs.

Yeah. He has definitely earned a spot in the Hall of Fame if he never fights again. Love him or hate him, you can't deny he has done amazing things in his career.
And who the **** did he fight???
Only known names you see in his record and he has an "L" next to it!
His best wins are Jirov, Booker, and Ruiz (As you can see, I'm not including Holyfield in this one)

Hall of fame MY ASS!

If 69-4-2 with 43 KOs record fighting no bodies is a HOF acomplishment, than Valuev who's 40-0-0 with 30 KOs should join him don't you think?

YEAH RIGHT!

And who the **** did he fight???
Only known names you see in his record and he has an "L" next to it!
His best wins are Jirov, Booker, and Ruiz (As you can see, I'm not including Holyfield in this one)

Hall of fame MY ASS!

If 69-4-2 with 43 KOs record fighting no bodies is a HOF acomplishment, than Valuev who's 40-0-0 with 30 KOs should join him don't you think?

YEAH RIGHT! Lemme see. He beat Michael Nunn for the Middleweight crown, then Iran Barkley for the Super Middleweight crown, then Vasily Jirov for the Cruiserweight crown.

All 3 were considered to be among the best in their division at the times.

The only crown he took from a slob was the Heavyweight, and he won't hold that long if he fights real contenders.

When Nikolay has defended his Heavyweight crown for a few years, we will have earned the right to be inducted, too. Of course he has to win one first.

Lemme see. He beat Michael Nunn for the Middleweight crown, then Iran Barkley for the Super Middleweight crown, then Vasily Jirov for the Cruiserweight crown.

All 3 were considered to be among the best in their division at the times.

The only crown he took from a slob was the Heavyweight, and he won't hold that long if he fights real contenders.

When Nikolay has defended his Heavyweight crown for a few years, we will have earned the right to be inducted, too. Of course he has to win one first.
Vasily Jirov - Yes he did beat him and Jirov was a champion. A champion of what?? Are there any real contenders in Cruiserweight? A boxer with any skills moves up to HWs. So THE KING Jirov is what now ranked as 42? Lets move on to his next opponent on your list (reverse order)..

Iran Barkley - 30-7-0 at the time Toney beat him? 43-19-1 - How is that a valid champion??
Michael Nunn - OK, not a bad record, but again: who did HE fight?

Toney beat him to win the IBF Middleweight title. I Be Fat - Yes he won that!

There is NO WAY if Toney quits now he earned himself a spot at the hall of fame!

Stop smoking those funny cigarettes!

Vasily Jirov - Yes he did beat him and Jirov was a champion. A champion of what?? Are there any real contenders in Cruserweight? A boxer with any skills moves up to HWs. So THE KING Jirov is what now ranked as 42? Lets move on to his next opponent on your list (reverse order)..

Iran Barkley - 30-7-0 at the time Toney beat him? 43-19-1 - How is that a valid champion??

Michael Nunn - OK, not a bad record, but again: who did HE fight?
Toney beat him to win the IBF Middleweight title. I Be Fat - Yes he won that!

There is NO WAY if Toney quits now he earned himself a spot at the hall of fame!

Stop smoking those funny cigarrets! ;)
Toney has ha some accomplishments in his career, but earnign a spot in the hall of fame is stretching it a bit. Beating Michael Nunn, some one who nobody else except devoted boxing fans have even heard of. Jirov, who lost to Joe Mesi, and now beating Ruiz, the most boring and less-skilled champion of all-time. I give him props, but a hall of famer he is not. He should have beat better fighters when he hada chance. The only way he gets into the hall now is if he beats VK, which will NEVER happen.

Toney has ha some accomplishments in his career, but earnign a spot in the hall of fame is stretching it a bit. Beating Michael Nunn, some one who nobody else except devoted boxing fans have even heard of. Jirov, who lost to Joe Mesi, and now beating Ruiz, the most boring and less-skilled champion of all-time. I give him props, but a hall of famer he is not. He should have beat better fighters when he hada chance. The only way he gets into the hall now is if he beats VK, which will NEVER happen.
And this is exactly what I'm saying!

And even if he does beat VK, what does that prove? Is VK a hall of famer?

If he unifies the belts and remains the champ for like 3-5 years.. than no doubt.. but he is too short, too fat and too OLD!
He just happen to be in the right place at the right time.

I don't want to take away that he is quick, talented and has a good chin! BUT THERE IS NO WAY HE SHOULD BE IN THE HALL OF FAME!

Vasily Jirov - Yes he did beat him and Jirov was a champion. A champion of what?? Are there any real contenders in Cruserweight? A boxer with any skills moves up to HWs. So THE KING Jirov is what now ranked as 42?
Granted, the cruiserweight division has been, historically, deviod of talent, but up to that point only 3 fighters had ever gone the distance with him. He ruled that division until Toney came along.


Iran Barkley - 30-7-0 at the time Toney beat him? 43-19-1 - How is that a valid champion??
If you look at Iran Barkley record, you will see that, for some reason, he decided to move up in weight. He finished his career as a Heavyweight.
He holds not one, but 2 wins over Tommy Hearns. No one else in boxing can say that.

3 of his 7 losses prior to Toney came to Nigel Benn, Roberto Duran and Michael Nunn. No shame in those losses.

Michael Nunn - OK, not a bad record, but again: who did HE fight?
He was undefeated coming into the fight with Toney, and held a win over Iran Barkley. Iran was the only real name on his resume, but he was considered the best MW at the time. A win over Iran Barkley is not a small thing.
Michael Nunn was favored going into the fight.


If you want to say that Toney has wasted more talent than most boxers could dream of having, I will stand there and defend you against the Toney nuthuggers, but you can't deny that he is headed for The Boxing Hall of Fame. Not many people have held titles in 4 weight divisions, having taken 3 of them from people who were considered to be the best at the time.

Good win for Toney. Would he have won if Ruiz had been hugging all night-doubt it. The few times he did clinch, ( few and clinch in a sentence about ruiz says something in itself) I didn't see Toney doing his " amazing inside body work ".

I give ruiz credit, like some people have said, he did the best with what he had. Sure the guy was boring as hell but he really wanted to be there and did what he could. He stood up tonight with Toney and tried to prove that he wasnt a boring fighter, he wanted people to like him, and frankly, I don't blame him. I felt bad for Ruiz tonight, I am not a big fan of his, but I really felt bad for him.

That "knockdown" was utter bull**** and everyone saw it. I was not impressed with Toney at all. He looked like **** imo to be honest.

I am not trying to hate on Toney I just think he is getting to much credit and being too hyped up for the heavyweight division and for this win. If Ruiz had smothered his ass it would have been over. Ruiz did get caught with counters, but if he would have kept that jab in toneys face and smothered him, like usual, I think he could have pulled off a win.

I think Ruiz beat himself tonight, he tryed to change his styles in too big of a fight, against a good foe.

Toney didn't put anyones lights out tonight, I doubt he could have if he wanted to.

Also , as much as I like Roy, he was being an idiot, Vitaly would destroy Toney. He would put T's light out for goddamn sure. With that long jab, that awkward style, a solid chin he would beat T all night long.

Maybe if he looses some weight, looks motivated, and gives a damn, he might stand a chance against Vitaly...a small one..very small.

Granted, the cruiserweight division has been, historically, deviod of talent, but up to that point only 3 fighters had ever gone the distance with him. He ruled that division until Toney came along.


If you look at Iran Barkley record, you will see that, for some reason, he decided to move up in weight. He finished his career as a Heavyweight.
He holds not one, but 2 wins over Tommy Hearns. No one else in boxing can say that.

3 of his 7 losses prior to Toney came to Nigel Benn, Roberto Duran and Michael Nunn. No shame in those losses.


He was undefeated coming into the fight with Toney, and held a win over Iran Barkley. Iran was the only real name on his resume, but he was considered the best MW at the time. A win over Iran Barkley is not a small thing.
Michael Nunn was favored going into the fight.


If you want to say that Toney has wasted more talent than most boxers could dream of having, I will stand there and defend you against the Toney nuthuggers, but you can't deny that he is headed for The Boxing Hall of Fame. Not many people have held titles in 4 weight divisions, having taken 3 of them from people who were considered to be the best at the time.
And with all that said.. All of those "BIG" Toney's wins were nothing more than Contenders.

You stepped into a puddle on this one.. just give it up!
Just admit that you went overboard when you said that "Toney deserves a spot in the hall of fame"

Nothihng wrong with admiting when you're wrong. :)

He's going to beat Klitschko. You'll see.

I agree totally. To overraters who think Vitali is going to step into the ring and destroy James Toney this will be a sad day. :(

And with all that said.. All of those "BIG" Toney's wins were nothing more than Contenders.

You stepped into a puddle on this one.. just give it up!
Just admit that you went overboard when you said that "Toney deserves a spot in the hall of fame"

Nothihng wrong with admiting when you're wrong. :)


Wow, this coming from a Vitali nut hugger.

LOL at you critisizing Toney's resume, when your hero's biggest career wins are over Larry Donald, and a 260lb Kirk Johnson.

Try just a little bit to keep it real.

Wow, this coming from a Vitali nut hugger.

LOL at you critisizing Toney's resume, when your hero's biggest career wins are over Larry Donald, and a 260lb Kirk Johnson.

Try just a little bit to keep it real.
Well let's keep it real than. Toney beating JOHN RUIZ in no way should establish the fact that he could take VK. Not a nuthugger once again, but VK is obviously a few notches above Ruiz, don't ya think? LOL.

so, a 4-time, 4-division World Champion doesn't deserve a spot in the Boxing Hall of Fame. Only the 3rd Middleweight to ever win a Heavyweight title, but he doesn't deserve a spot? I would admit I was wrong if I were.

Am I correct in assuming by your avatar that you're one of the ones who thought that Wlad the Chinless deserved this shot instead of Toney?

Wow, this coming from a Vitali nut hugger.

LOL at you critisizing Toney's resume, when your hero's biggest career wins are over Larry Donald, and a 260lb Kirk Johnson.

Try just a little bit to keep it real.Bozo...

Why do you always have to stick you 5 cents in? Why do you alway have to bash on VK? This thread is not about him.. and then you go and complain that every thread turns into just that..
/ Sigh

Why is there the need to create Klitshcko threads after every Heavyweight fight?

And while we're at it.... did I say anything that was not wright about Toney?

SPEAK UP!

Well let's keep it real than. Toney beating JOHN RUIZ in no way should establish the fact that he could take VK. Not a nuthugger once again, but VK is obviously a few notches above Ruiz, don't ya think? LOL.
only the toney nuthuggers are saying that.

you guys are giving Toney way too much credit. Ruiz simply fought the wrong fight once again when facing a former middleweight champion. Someone put it in his head(just like in the RJJ fight) that all of a sudden he can be a boxer. Just because he's got a slight height advantage he's all of a sudden going to be able to pop his jab and box from the outside.
if anyone picked Ruiz in this fight, it wasnt because they thought Ruiz had the ability to outbox Toney. Like someone else pointed out earlier, Toney did not look impressive on the inside at all. his most effective punches were rights coming in to the head or body. Ruiz should have fought his sloppy, hugfest fight. i was looking for Ruiz to fix the mistake he made against Jones and be all over Toney all night. i wanted to finally see someone beat Ruiz's ass when he tried to hug all night. but once again he chooses to "box" and gives away a 12 round decision.
I hope this finally is the end of ruiz, but I seriously doubt it.

only the toney nuthuggers are saying that.
Yeah, I think it's just because they're high on Toney's "spectacular" win tonight. I'm in no way a VK fan. I like to watch him fight because he always comes prepared for battle, but I only defend him here because he is the best heavyweight out there right now, love him or hate him.

so, a 4-time, 4-division World Champion doesn't deserve a spot in the Boxing Hall of Fame. Only the 3rd Middleweight to ever win a Heavyweight title, but he doesn't deserve a spot? I would admit I was wrong if I were.

Am I correct in assuming by your avatar that you're one of the ones who thought that Wlad the Chinless deserved this shot instead of Toney?
I don't believe Toney accomplished enough in his carrier to be a HOF boxer.
Stop looking at the belts and the numbers and look at his competition.

Listen, by me being a fan, doesn't mean that I'm blind of their flaws! Nor am I saying his is the best of the best. Just a prospect who I like.
How come when people have nothing else to say.. they turn to my avitar and start bashing on the Klitchkos.. Pathetic

Yeah, I think it's just because they're high on Toney's "spectacular" win tonight. I'm in no way a VK fan. I like to watch him fight because he always comes prepared for battle, but I only defend him here because he is the best heavyweight out there right now, love him or hate him.
I'd agree with that.

glad my prediction came true, how could anyone doubt that lights out would'nt beat this guy? bring on the russian frankenstien!!!!

Stop looking at the belts and the numbers and look at his competition.
I did. You didn't. Again, since it didn't sink in the other 5 times, 3 of the 4 belts were taken from the people who were considered to be the best in the division at the time. One of the 3 had TWO wins over an all-time great fighter in Tommy Hearns.

Very few fighters with lengthy careers have a resume full of great wins over great fighters. If we base the value of a fighter on the number of bums on their resume, then both the Klits are more worthless to boxing than Toney. Neither of them has a career-defining fight that goes in the win column. Both their career definers have come in defeat. Little Klit to Sanders and Big Klit to Lewis. At least Big Klit's loss defined him as a warrior, almost making up for quitting in the corner in a fight he couldn't have lost with one hand.

Toney beat mccallum at 160 too, but they were close, and he's a very respectable fighter, i think toney deserves to be in the hall of fame and he'll get in too, much less deserving fighters have gone in.

I'm so glad toney won, i havn't seen the fight but from the pics toney looked far too heavy he needs to stay at about 215 - 220, what was his handspeed and movement like compared to when he fought holy?

I did. You didn't. Again, since it didn't sink in the other 5 times, 3 of the 4 belts were taken from the people who were considered to be the best in the division at the time. One of the 3 had TWO wins over an all-time great fighter in Tommy Hearns.

Very few fighters with lengthy careers have a resume full of great wins over great fighters. If we base the value of a fighter on the number of bums on their resume, then both the Klits are more worthless to boxing than Toney. Neither of them has a career-defining fight that goes in the win column. Both their career definers have come in defeat. Little Klit to Sanders and Big Klit to Lewis. At least Big Klit's loss defined him as a warrior, almost making up for quitting in the corner in a fight he couldn't have lost with one hand.Well Martin, "since it didn't sink in the other 5 times", Toney's best opposition, you so called "champions" were no bodies
Vasily Jirov, Iran Barkley, Michael Nunn
So what if Barkley beat up Hearns? He should be in the hall of fame too?

That's what I keep on telling you.. There is no way you should be in a HOF because of 1 or 2 good wins. You have to be a legend! And Toney is no where near it!

Man, just give it up http://img155.echo.cx/img155/3382/argument5vd.gif

Good Night!

Well Martin, "since it didn't sink in the other 5 times", Toney's best opposition, you so called "champions" were no bodies
Vasily Jirov, Iran Barkley, Michael Nunn
So what if Barkley beat up Hearns? He should be in the hall of fame too?

That's what I keep on telling you.. There is no way you should be in a HOF because of 1 or 2 good wins. You have to be a legend! And Toney is no where near it!

Man, just give it up http://img155.echo.cx/img155/3382/argument5vd.gif
By your standard, people like Kid Gavilin and Saad Muhammed wouldn't be Hall of Famers. They are, and deservedly so, and they didn't accomplish anywhere near what Toney has in their careers.

Oh well. I hope I never have to live up to your standards. I hope you don't, either.

By your standard, people like Kid Gavilin and Saad Muhammed wouldn't be Hall of Famers. They are, and deservedly so, and they didn't accomplish anywhere near what Toney has in their careers.

Oh well. I hope I never have to live up to your standards. I hope you don't, either."My standards" ?? :confused:
What are my standards?? Now you're just throwing words, 'cause you have nothing to say..
When did I ever define "my standards"

And where did you find that Saad Muhammed is in the HOF?
What list are you looking at??

Getting into the HOF is VERY easy. Toney could retire now and get in. All you need to do is either be a heavyweight champion at all (I'm pretty sure Leon Spinks is even in) or if you're a lighter weight hold your belt for a few years and have some memorable fights. Beating Ruiz, (who is likely a future hall of famer himself) has guaranteed Toney a spot.

Getting into the HOF is VERY easy. Toney could retire now and get in. All you need to do is either be a heavyweight champion at all (I'm pretty sure Leon Spinks is even in) or if you're a lighter weight hold your belt for a few years and have some memorable fights. Beating Ruiz, (who is likely a future hall of famer himself) has guaranteed Toney a spot.Whoa, I didn't expect that one from you...

Ruiz is likely to be a hall of famer? ROTFL!!!!!!!
WHAT ARE YOU ALL SMOCKING?? :439: :439:

How about it, I'll start a thread.. I want to hear other people's opinions on this!

We have a new phony as a champion now. Before it was Ruiz, now we have a 5'9 overweight middleweight, this is going to make the heavyweight division look even worse.


Toney is at least a boxing great, blown up middleweight or not. Ruiz has been defending his title by illegally winning with his clinching. I've said it before, if Ruiz doesnt illegally hug his opponent, he gets outclassed. That's exactly what happened last night.

Why not? When Jess Willard and Leon Spinks and Ingemar Johansson are there, why not Ruiz? Ruiz is a stretch and was originally a joke on my part. But it seems that if you are heavyweight and you've beaten a lot of top opposition, you will probably get in. The HOF has been diluted with Willards and the like for years now.

Edited: Apparently Leon Spinks is not in the IBHOF YET. But I expect him to get inducted any year now. ;)

"My standards" ?? :confused:
What are my standards?? Now you're just throwing words, 'cause you have nothing to say..
When did I ever define "my standards"
Right here:

There is no way you should be in a HOF because of 1 or 2 good wins. You have to be a legend!
And where did you find that Saad Muhammed is in the HOF?
What list are you looking at??
The International Boxing Hall of Fame Website.

In fairness, I think you're misundertsanding the point of The Hall of Fame. If it were to enshrine only Legends, it would be a bare place, filled mostly with lower weight class fighters from the 70's and 80's and a few Heavies from days long gone.

The point is to honor fighters who accomplished great things in their careers, who brought us unforgettable fights. They didn't have to be the best ever, or even the best of their times.

Saad Muhammed definitely deserves his spot in there. Sadly, I'm old enough to remember his fights. He epitomizes what a warrior should be. He never quit. When he was out on his feet, instincts kicked in and he fought like the devil himself. He is, in my mind, one of the best light-heavyweights ever, everything that Roy Jones wishes he could have been. Actually, scratch that. Roy would never engage in battle like Matthew did.
I never saw a Saad Muhammad fight that wasn't memorable. He deserves to be there.

Anyway, I've been pissy enough for 10 people in the last coupla days. My blood sugar is high, and I apologize if I've been too *****y to you in this thread.