View Full Version : Who's the greatest southpaw in boxing history?


Rocker
01-03-2010, 02:22 PM
Who do you got?

Joey Giardello
01-03-2010, 02:25 PM
1 Whitaker
2 Marvin Hagler
3 Tiger Flowers

#1Assassin
01-03-2010, 02:29 PM
1. hagler
2. whitaker
3. pacquiao
4. wright
5. moorer

honorable mention: tarver, hamed, byrd.

SplitSecond
01-03-2010, 02:33 PM
it's between marvin hagler and the pacman

GJC
01-03-2010, 02:36 PM
it's between marvin hagler and the pacman
Writing off Whitaker a bit lightly no?

SplitSecond
01-03-2010, 02:43 PM
Writing off Whitaker a bit lightly no?

i thought about him, but then i also thought of who i think would win between the three, and in my opinion hagler and pacquiao both beat whitaker

sonnyboyx2
01-03-2010, 02:57 PM
Pacquiao has achieved more than all the others put together so i have to go with Manny

Joey Giardello
01-03-2010, 03:19 PM
Pacquiao has achieved more than all the others put together so i have to go with Manny

Whitaker went from lightweight to lightmiddleweight beating the best! the difference with manny and sweet pea is whitaker would never demand stupid catchweights

Amazinger
01-03-2010, 03:21 PM
Who do you got?



Sweet pea !!!

Dynamite Kid
01-03-2010, 03:22 PM
........................Whitaker.

cotto16
01-03-2010, 04:20 PM
the best southpaw hagler, pound for pound the biggest punching southpaw naseem hamed

BritishBoxing92
01-03-2010, 04:23 PM
Who do you got?

Manny Pacqiuao and Joe Calzaghe ;) :boxing: :439:

Mr. Copycat
01-03-2010, 04:25 PM
:chomp:Pacman

Bigdaddy_Vh
01-03-2010, 07:29 PM
Hagler or sweet pea

One more round
01-03-2010, 07:32 PM
You will get the fanboys and morons saying it's Manny, but
Sweet Pea was the better fighter.

Thread Stealer
01-03-2010, 08:26 PM
i thought about him, but then i also thought of who i think would win between the three, and in my opinion hagler and pacquiao both beat whitaker

Well of course Hagler would beat Whitaker. He was a middleweight and Whitaker mainly fought from lightweight to welterweight. If they were the same size Hagler would be in for a really tough night, and so would Pacquiao for that matter.

Irish Hitman
01-03-2010, 08:30 PM
Pac or whitaker

jrosales13
01-03-2010, 10:04 PM
Whitaker to me is the best southpaw ever.

dde91
01-03-2010, 10:10 PM
Manny Pacquiao because he achieved the most as a southpaw and has 4 Lineal titles in 7 divisions. WHAT OTHER SOUTHPAW HAS DONE THAT??? none.

other great southpaws
Whitaker
Hagler



FUTURE GREAT SOUTHPAW Paul Williams. Throws 100 punches a round

eagleyes
01-03-2010, 10:25 PM
sweet pea! when was the last time manny cleared out a division? manny is a cherry picker.

heatman
01-03-2010, 10:25 PM
Winky's my favorite

but Sweet Pea is the greatest

them_apples
01-03-2010, 10:53 PM
it's Pacquiao

He edges Hagler out by a hair.

Pea didn't do nearly enough to overtake Hagler or Pacquiao.

Hagler went like 9 years not losing and even his SD loss to Leonard is debateable.

Pacquiao has done more than both though, he wooped on ATG featherweights, moved up multiple weight classes whilst crushing top quality opposition.

Dondi33O
01-03-2010, 11:04 PM
Rocky Balboa

jomarc
01-03-2010, 11:06 PM
ill pick manny pacquiao.

i like hagler too

blaze778
01-03-2010, 11:29 PM
IMO:

1. Hagler
2. Pac
3. Whitaker

Hagler barely edges Pac by a hair. Depends who you like. Pac made more accomplishments, but he was never a champ for as along as Hagler was. Then again Hagler fought a time where weight classes and titles mattered. If Hagler was around today, he would probably bounce different weight classes and fight the occasional catch weight to get the biggest fights possible, just like Pac is doing. Times were different, so topics like this are more subjective than objective, so I gotta lean towards the retired Hagler since Pac hasn't finished his career yet. A win over Mayweather would catapult Pac, but if he sticks around too long he might hurt his legacy (Jones Jr., Holyfield, etc.)

donkim
01-04-2010, 02:26 AM
Pacquiao has done more than both though, he wooped on ATG featherweights, moved up multiple weight classes whilst crushing top quality opposition.


Pacquiao sure as hell never "whooped" Marquez.Both his "wins" over Marquez are highly disputed and debatable.

them_apples
01-04-2010, 03:34 AM
Pacquiao sure as hell never "whooped" Marquez.Both his "wins" over Marquez are highly disputed and debatable.

he still won. Every fighter has tough fights. Manny didn't lose his tough fight.

You telling me Hagler and Whitaker dominated everyone they fought? Hagler went through hell and back w/ Mugabi. but he still won.

cooper5
01-04-2010, 04:00 AM
I could understand arguments for Hagler, Whitaker and Pacquiao

Obama
01-04-2010, 04:16 AM
Once Mayweather embarasses Pac, this poll should be redone. Guarantee the results will shift considerably.

Then Whitaker will emerge as the clear victor.

them_apples
01-04-2010, 05:01 AM
Once Mayweather embarasses Pac, this poll should be redone. Guarantee the results will shift considerably.

Then Whitaker will emerge as the clear victor.

how does Whitaker surpass Hagler? because he's a slick black fighter? lmao

markkerr101
01-04-2010, 05:28 AM
Hagler by far

Ziggy Stardust
01-04-2010, 10:07 AM
I have Whitaker just edging Hagler.

Poet

1SILVA
01-04-2010, 11:43 AM
I have Whitaker just edging Hagler.

Poet

Hagler and Whitaker are by far the 2 greatest southpaws that ever fought. Everyone else is fighting for third place(including Pac-Man, who would give Whitaker a run but Whitaker's superior defense would be the difference).

Chunk..
01-04-2010, 12:08 PM
Hagler is hard to argue against, there haven't been that many championship caliber southpaws, let alone "great" ones.

Light Heavyweight: Joe Calzaghe.

Middleweight: Marvin Hagler.

Welter: Pernell Whitaker.

Southpaw16BF
01-04-2010, 02:31 PM
Pernell Whitaker

Dynamite Kid
01-04-2010, 02:52 PM
No one ever really beat Whitaker in his prime.

Pacquaio beat Barrera which i wont take any credit from him for because its a great win, however Morales beat him clearly when he still had something left in the tank, bare in mind when i say he had something left in the tank he was still a long way past being the Morales who fought Zaragoza or McCullough,Barrera 1,infact prior to the second fight he lost to Zahir Raheem. Lord knows what the Morales from the 1st Barrera fight would of done with Pacquiao.

JMM arguably beat the guy twice. The second JMM fight was in 2008 and its barely 2010 now, so its not like Pacquiao has improved as dramatically as people make out. JMM has been slipping ever since that fight, infact for all we know he might have been slipping when he fought Pac second time, and it was still an extremely close fight, so what does that say?

Pacquiao is being overrated beyond all recognition.

them_apples
01-04-2010, 04:31 PM
No one ever really beat Whitaker in his prime.

Pacquaio beat Barrera which i wont take any credit from him for because its a great win, however Morales beat him clearly when he still had something left in the tank, bare in mind when i say he had something left in the tank he was still a long way past being the Morales who fought Zaragoza or McCullough,Barrera 1,infact prior to the second fight he lost to Zahir Raheem. Lord knows what the Morales from the 1st Barrera fight would of done with Pacquiao.

JMM arguably beat the guy twice. The second JMM fight was in 2008 and its barely 2010 now, so its not like Pacquiao has improved as dramatically as people make out. JMM has been slipping ever since that fight, infact for all we know he might have been slipping when he fought Pac second time, and it was still an extremely close fight, so what does that say?

Pacquiao is being overrated beyond all recognition.


If you are going to subliminally discredit the Morales wins, you might want to figure in that Pacquiao wasn't near his peak either. He was a rough brawler who was undersized in that fight and lost a competitive decision.

Regardless...he avenged that loss 2x.

he's so good in fact, that the only way you can discredit him is with fights he still won, only had a tough time with.

Muhammed Ali had close fights and lost fights as well, is he overated beyond recognition?

It's seems as though the only way Pacquiao would win this poll in your mind is if he was undefeated, something nobody on that list has done, and can't do unless they cherry pick (calzaghe).

what the hell has Whitaker done? is he winning this poll because he fights slick? Pacquiaos resume absolutely crushes Whitakers and I'm sure even you know this.

I gotta give it to Pea though, he created the blue print for Pacquiao to beat on De La Hoya.

If you want to argue Hagler, then be my guest, the man was a beast at MW and I consider him the best MW of all time.

Rocker
01-04-2010, 05:06 PM
If you are going to subliminally discredit the Morales wins, you might want to figure in that Pacquiao wasn't near his peak either. He was a rough brawler who was undersized in that fight and lost a competitive decision.

Regardless...he avenged that loss 2x.

he's so good in fact, that the only way you can discredit him is with fights he still won, only had a tough time with.

Muhammed Ali had close fights and lost fights as well, is he overated beyond recognition?

It's seems as though the only way Pacquiao would win this poll in your mind is if he was undefeated, something nobody on that list has done, and can't do unless they cherry pick (calzaghe).

what the hell has Whitaker done? is he winning this poll because he fights slick? Pacquiaos resume absolutely crushes Whitakers and I'm sure even you know this.

I gotta give it to Pea though, he created the blue print for Pacquiao to beat on De La Hoya.

If you want to argue Hagler, then be my guest, the man was a beast at MW and I consider him the best MW of all time.

In a head to head match-up, I'd choose Whitaker over Pacquiao. But I think Pacquiao has the much better resume.

That's a good example to show how hard it is to rank fighters on an all-time basis. Do we side with the resume or the skill?

Junito-Rulez
01-04-2010, 05:21 PM
1) Hagler
2) Pacquiao/Whitaker
4) Michael Nunn = i just mention him because of his underrated skills, his career is not the greatest but his talent was unique.

Southpaw16BF
01-04-2010, 05:28 PM
how does Whitaker surpass Hagler? because he's a slick black fighter? lmao

In my opinion, Whitaker is the best due to never being beat in his prime, being a four weight world champion, unifieng the 135lb and dominanting the division, and being argubaly the most skilled fighter of all time. And his resume is also pretty great.......

I dont mind other people saying Hagler or Pac. But don't say Whitaker shoundt be called it and isnt worthy when he most certainly is.

Dynamite Kid
01-04-2010, 06:06 PM
If you are going to subliminally discredit the Morales wins, you might want to figure in that Pacquiao wasn't near his peak either. He was a rough brawler who was undersized in that fight and lost a competitive decision.

Regardless...he avenged that loss 2x.

he's so good in fact, that the only way you can discredit him is with fights he still won, only had a tough time with.

Muhammed Ali had close fights and lost fights as well, is he overated beyond recognition?

It's seems as though the only way Pacquiao would win this poll in your mind is if he was undefeated, something nobody on that list has done, and can't do unless they cherry pick (calzaghe).

what the hell has Whitaker done? is he winning this poll because he fights slick? Pacquiaos resume absolutely crushes Whitakers and I'm sure even you know this.

I gotta give it to Pea though, he created the blue print for Pacquiao to beat on De La Hoya.E]

If you want to argue Hagler, then be my guest, the man was a beast at MW and I consider him the best MW of all time.




I would take Pacquiao physical prime over Morales's shot legs wouldn't you? Pacquiao should of clearly been in the better shape to overcome the fading Morales if he is what he is made out to be.

He avenged it after Morales had the last ounce of fight beat outta him in the first fight, just like Bowe had what ever he had left beat outta him in the first Golota fight and looked worse for wear in the second fight despite training much harder for the fight.

he's so good in fact, that the only way you can discredit him is with fights he still won, only had a tough time with. He got the decision in, fights won are a different kettle of fish.


No, by consensus opinion Muhammad Ali arguably has the best resume in Boxing so that analogy falls down.

It's seems as though the only way Pacquiao would win this poll in your mind is if he was undefeated, something nobody on that list has done, and can't do unless they cherry pick (calzaghe).

Not really. Pacquiao would be be top of my list if he had beaten a Morales who well past his sell by date comfortably and beaten JMM (2nd time) comfortably, a fight which was only 2 years or so ago, yet he still could not dominate him, the first fight is also contentious.


Crushes Whitaker's resume LOL

J L Ramirez arguably beat Arguello & Edwin Rosario.

Vasquez who beat Winky Wright with ease and had him on the canvas numerous times, Whitaker beat him with minimal fuss.

Azumah Nelson, wins over Wilfredo Gomez,Jeff Fenech.

JCC win is better than anyone Pacquiao has beaten. Did not get the decision but we know who really won the fight.

James McGirt 2x,Greg Haugen, Roger Mayweather


If Whitaker is winning the poll its because he was more skilled has just as good a resume, if not better, and was never truly bested by another fighter in his prime.

GameGod
01-04-2010, 06:26 PM
1. Marvin Hagler (actually has a serious claim to the Middleweight All-Time Throne)
2. Pernell Whitaker (top 3 lightweights of all-time)
3. Joe Calzaghe (greatest Super Middleweight of all-time, undefeated)
4. Manny Pacquiao (great fighter)

American Dream
01-04-2010, 08:23 PM
Whitaker. by far is the best southpaw.

as stated by a previous poster..Whitaker cleaned out his whole division..he beat the best prime fighters..I dont even consider Pacquiao to be on the same level as him..Pacquiao is great and is the pride of his country..and they should be very proud of him..but no way is he better than Sweet Pea. No way.

billionaire
01-04-2010, 08:25 PM
hagler was devasting in his prime he beat all different styles plus he could switch it up.....whitaker i havent really seen enough of.....pacquiao i give him credit but cmon his last 3 fights were against the same type of fighter.....lets see how he does against mayweather before you crown his ass......

Obama
01-04-2010, 08:36 PM
I really don't feel like going through the motions of breaking down why (as it would take a couple hours to not confuse people), but I feel Whitaker has a better resume than both Hagler and Pacquiao.

His fighting style is inconsequential to my rating of him.

Thread Stealer
01-04-2010, 08:46 PM
What's up with these "by far" comments?

What makes Whitaker sooooo much better than Hagler, or vice versa?

One more round
01-04-2010, 09:29 PM
he still won. Every fighter has tough fights. Manny didn't lose his tough fight.

You telling me Hagler and Whitaker dominated everyone they fought? Hagler went through hell and back w/ Mugabi. but he still won.

On a highly disputed decision. Hagler beat Mugabi via knockout.

blaze778
01-04-2010, 09:46 PM
hagler was devasting in his prime he beat all different styles plus he could switch it up.....whitaker i havent really seen enough of.....pacquiao i give him credit but cmon his last 3 fights were against the same type of fighter.....lets see how he does against mayweather before you crown his ass......

Hagler beat all types of fighters and I think he was the most well-rounded southpaw. Whitaker is probably the greatest defensive southpaw and Pac is probably the greatest offensive southpaw. But p4p, I think Hagler can find a way to squeeze out a razor thin victory over both guys. But if Pac can beat Mayweather, he deserves the greatest southpaw title.

My top 3 southpaws are Hagler, Pac, Whitaker (in that order, but I can't complain if someone has the same top 3, but in a different order).

Winky, Calzaghe, Moorer, and Hamed are elite fighters and accomplished in their own right, but aren't in Hagler, Pac, and Whitaker's league.

them_apples
01-04-2010, 10:25 PM
I would take Pacquiao physical prime over Morales's shot legs wouldn't you? Pacquiao should of clearly been in the better shape to overcome the fading Morales if he is what he is made out to be.

He avenged it after Morales had the last ounce of fight beat outta him in the first fight, just like Bowe had what ever he had left beat outta him in the first Golota fight and looked worse for wear in the second fight despite training much harder for the fight.

he's so good in fact, that the only way you can discredit him is with fights he still won, only had a tough time with. He got the decision in, fights won are a different kettle of fish.


No, by consensus opinion Muhammad Ali arguably has the best resume in Boxing so that analogy falls down.

It's seems as though the only way Pacquiao would win this poll in your mind is if he was undefeated, something nobody on that list has done, and can't do unless they cherry pick (calzaghe).

Not really. Pacquiao would be be top of my list if he had beaten a Morales who well past his sell by date comfortably and beaten JMM (2nd time) comfortably, a fight which was only 2 years or so ago, yet he still could not dominate him, the first fight is also contentious.


Crushes Whitaker's resume LOL

J L Ramirez arguably beat Arguello & Edwin Rosario.

Vasquez who beat Winky Wright with ease and had him on the canvas numerous times, Whitaker beat him with minimal fuss.

Azumah Nelson, wins over Wilfredo Gomez,Jeff Fenech.

JCC win is better than anyone Pacquiao has beaten. Did not get the decision but we know who really won the fight.

James McGirt 2x,Greg Haugen, Roger Mayweather


If Whitaker is winning the poll its because he was more skilled has just as good a resume, if not better, and was never truly bested by another fighter in his prime.

uhhh man...i could rip Pea's resume apart w/ ease using the same structure you just did...but i'm to lazy

American Dream
01-05-2010, 01:05 AM
uhhh man...i could rip Pea's resume apart w/ ease using the same structure you just did...but i'm to lazy

I want to see this..I would love to see your compare/contrast version of Pacquiao vs Whitaker resume...
keep in my mind Whitakers claim to greatness wasnt fighting old fighters...or drained fighters..and he didnt "pick" his opponents...thats all Im saying..
but please try.....

American Dream
01-05-2010, 01:10 AM
What's up with these "by far" comments?

What makes Whitaker sooooo much better than Hagler, or vice versa?

for me..not Hagler, but I do know when speaking about Sweet Pea vs Pacquiao "by far" must be in there...
if you have to ask why...well ::sigh::

Thread Stealer
01-05-2010, 01:28 AM
for me..not Hagler, but I do know when speaking about Sweet Pea vs Pacquiao "by far" must be in there...
if you have to ask why...well ::sigh::

I think Whitaker wins H2H over Pacquiao, too slick and intelligent and versatile, but I'm through underrating Pacquiao. He keeps surprising me over and over again with his performances. It's best to wait until the end of his career of put him in perspective. Sure he's not as well-rounded as Hagler, defensively skilled as Whitaker, doesn't have a jab like either of the two, but ultimately the results are what matters most. And he's gotten the job done against some really good fighters on numerous occassions.

them_apples
01-05-2010, 02:56 AM
I think Whitaker wins H2H over Pacquiao, too slick and intelligent and versatile, but I'm through underrating Pacquiao. He keeps surprising me over and over again with his performances. It's best to wait until the end of his career of put him in perspective. Sure he's not as well-rounded as Hagler, defensively skilled as Whitaker, doesn't have a jab like either of the two, but ultimately the results are what matters most. And he's gotten the job done against some really good fighters on numerous occassions.

he's offensively superior, if you are gonna name off all the qualities of Hagler and Pea, you should at least put a word in for Pacquiao.

Dynamite Kid
01-05-2010, 04:03 AM
uhhh man...i could rip Pea's resume apart w/ ease using the same structure you just did...but i'm to lazy

Im not trying to disrespect Pac but i think those are valid arguments that need to be leveled at him when assessing his career.

I respect Manny for what he has done, infact i put him above Roy Jones on what he has actually proven against top caliber opposition, but Whitaker also did his thing against the best fighters out there and ducked no one.

I would put Pac/Hopkins above Mayweather & Jones based what they actually proved against best competition.

Doctor_Tenma
01-05-2010, 10:56 AM
uhhh man...i could rip Pea's resume apart w/ ease using the same structure you just did...but i'm to lazy

Please do :D

Chex31
01-05-2010, 11:57 AM
Pernell Whitaker, though Marvin Hagler comes in a very close second