View Full Version : Could Roberto Duran have beaten Tommy Hearns in a rematch?


klipsch speaker
01-03-2010, 05:35 AM
You know, made the necessary adjustments?

or do u think Hearns was just a case of a bad style match up for him and a win over such fighter was never really possible?

TBear
01-03-2010, 06:27 AM
I doubt it. He might have done better but Hearns was a bad matchup for him.
Strange but he did beat Barkley who was about as tall as Hearns and was a hard puncher. But Hearns had a different style.

BattlingNelson
01-03-2010, 06:40 AM
You know, made the necessary adjustments?

or do u think Hearns was just a case of a bad style match up for him and a win over such fighter was never really possible?
I'm curious to know what makes you think that Duran could make the 'necessary adjustments'?

IMO Hearns wins this matchup 10 times out of 10.

sonnyboyx2
01-03-2010, 07:20 AM
I'm curious to know what makes you think that Duran could make the 'necessary adjustments'?

IMO Hearns wins this matchup 10 times out of 10.

i am of the same opinion.. Hearns wins every time

Silencers
01-03-2010, 07:49 AM
This is just a bad styles matchup for Duran, Hearns beats him every time.

Bundana
01-03-2010, 08:41 AM
All a matter of how you are able to handle certain types of fighters.

For 39 rounds, Ali could never really get the better of Ken Norton - yet Foreman walked right through him (and would probably have done so 10 out of 10 times)!

Same with Hearns and Duran... Hearns by ko every time.

Thread Stealer
01-03-2010, 09:22 AM
Sure, if the adjustment is slip Hearns a couple of roofies before the fight begins.

As great as Duran looked in some of his WW fights pre-New Orleans, I'm far from confident he beats Hearns at WW either.

1SILVA
01-03-2010, 10:11 AM
You know, made the necessary adjustments?

or do u think Hearns was just a case of a bad style match up for him and a win over such fighter was never really possible?

In the history of boxing, how often did a man who got totally annihilated in two rounds or less win the rematch? Only chance Duran had of beating Hearns was if they allowed him to fight with a weapon. If they fight 10 times, Hearns knocks him out ten times.

Sugarj
01-03-2010, 10:19 AM
You could never say that Duran wouldn't have had a puncher's chance in the return. Tommy could be vulnerable.

Also, Duran's chin was normally so good. Nobody was predicting an early Hearns KO at the time.

If there had been a rematch, and Duran had really committed himself in training I think he may well have got into the late rounds. Hell, he survived well against Hagler. If I'm honest though I couldn't see Hearns losing....too fast, too powerful and with too long a reach.

GJC
01-03-2010, 10:28 AM
You could never say that Duran wouldn't have had a puncher's chance in the return. Tommy could be vulnerable.

Also, Duran's chin was normally so good. Nobody was predicting an early Hearns KO at the time.

If there had been a rematch, and Duran had really committed himself in training I think he may well have got into the late rounds. Hell, he survived well against Hagler. If I'm honest though I couldn't see Hearns losing....too fast, too powerful and with too long a reach.
This is pretty much my take on it, bad match up for Duran and you would have to favour Hearns in any re-match.
That said, it would have been nice to have seen Duran in better nick for the fight to see for sure.
A well conditioned committed Duran should not be taken lightly, he could brawl with Hagler, knock Leonard out of his stride and stand up to Barklay's bombs so only a fool would write him off.

sleazyfellow
01-03-2010, 10:30 AM
I'm curious to know what makes you think that Duran could make the 'necessary adjustments'?

IMO Hearns wins this matchup 10 times out of 10.

If Hearns starts early like he did against Duran there aint no way Duran will get past 3, he couldnt get on the inside at all either, heres a little clip of Hagler and Hearns trash talking and talking about the Duran fight.

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Rocker
01-03-2010, 10:42 AM
I'd say it was just a bad style match-up. Hearns was too big size-wise and too big of a puncher for Duran. He might've adapted more to his style but I'd still see him losing.

Joey Giardello
01-03-2010, 02:06 PM
In the history of boxing, how often did a man who got totally annihilated in two rounds or less win the rematch? Only chance Duran had of beating Hearns was if they allowed him to fight with a weapon. If they fight 10 times, Hearns knocks him out ten times.

it can happen pep got put away in 4 rounds by saddler and came back to out box sandy in the rematch and win on points

GJC
01-03-2010, 02:34 PM
In the history of boxing, how often did a man who got totally annihilated in two rounds or less win the rematch? Only chance Duran had of beating Hearns was if they allowed him to fight with a weapon. If they fight 10 times, Hearns knocks him out ten times.
Lewis v McCall
Dempsey v Flynn
Bob Montgomery v Mouzon
Archie Moore v Morrow
Etc etc
Sorry Silva couldn't resist :)

You make a good point though, I would point out that no one could have got more of a career ending/ruining sustained beating than Tunney got in the 1st Greb fight yet came back with great success.
Sometimes getting caught early and blasted out happens, you get caught with one and everything else is inevitable.
Remember Duran is an ATG and as such these guys are great problems solvers, like I said earlier I heavily favour Hearns in this bad stylistic match up for Duran but I can't see Hearns winning ten out of ten against a focused conditioned Duran to be honest.

Sugarj
01-03-2010, 06:26 PM
Ha ha, some classic examples there GJC.

donkim
01-03-2010, 06:46 PM
Duran apologists will claim that Duran was out of shape and not motivated to fight one of the best and biggest stars in boxing at the time,and yet he was motivated enough to poke a green Davey Moore in the eye.


It was the coming out party for the "hitman" who had been criticised for his lack of devestating inishes since Leonard had finished him in their showdown.

billionaire
01-03-2010, 07:03 PM
lol hell no he got poleaxed.........thats like saying hatton could beat pacquiao in a rematch.......

1SILVA
01-03-2010, 09:39 PM
lewis v mccall
dempsey v flynn
bob montgomery v mouzon
archie moore v morrow
etc etc
sorry silva couldn't resist :)

you make a good point though, i would point out that no one could have got more of a career ending/ruining sustained beating than tunney got in the 1st greb fight yet came back with great success.
Sometimes getting caught early and blasted out happens, you get caught with one and everything else is inevitable.
Remember duran is an atg and as such these guys are great problems solvers, like i said earlier i heavily favour hearns in this bad stylistic match up for duran but i can't see hearns winning ten out of ten against a focused conditioned duran to be honest.

excellent point you make, but unless duran attempts to box hearns, and no one outboxed hearns, then his chances would be very slim. Duran needs a lucky sunday punch, and at 154 and 160, duran was no one punch ko artist. Like you said, this is a bad stylistic matchup for duran.

1SILVA
01-03-2010, 09:41 PM
it can happen pep got put away in 4 rounds by saddler and came back to out box sandy in the rematch and win on points

yes, but pep was a master boxer and got beat twice more by saddler in returns. Duran in no way is going to outbox hitman

1SILVA
01-03-2010, 09:42 PM
duran apologists will claim that duran was out of shape and not motivated to fight one of the best and biggest stars in boxing at the time,and yet he was motivated enough to poke a green davey moore in the eye.


It was the coming out party for the "hitman" who had been criticised for his lack of devestating inishes since leonard had finished him in their showdown.

i don't see how duran could be out of shape, he made the 154 pound limit weight for the fight and was paid alot of money, plus in his previous bout he gave hagler a very tough fight. I agree with you, duran being out of shape is bs

The Noose
01-03-2010, 09:48 PM
No no no.

Even if Duran was at his peak i believe Hearns would hurt and stop him, probably in a similar devastating fashion.

TheGreatA
01-03-2010, 09:53 PM
Maybe at a catchweight of 170 pounds in 1996-2000.

BennyST
01-04-2010, 06:02 AM
You know, made the necessary adjustments?

or do u think Hearns was just a case of a bad style match up for him and a win over such fighter was never really possible?

The latter I'd say. It's possible he'd have done better as a fitter, trimmer WW but I still think he'd have lost. Hearns was just too big, too tall, too quick, too much reach. He had about a foot reach advantage and with Hearns skill, right hand and jab, it makes it nearly impossible to solve if you don't have a similar size or physical advantage of some sort.

Ziggy Stardust
01-04-2010, 10:11 AM
It's a bad style matchup but if they fought 10 times I have a hard time imagining an in shape Duran NOT catching Hearns' questionable chin once or twice.

Poet

sonnyboyx2
01-04-2010, 11:08 AM
It's a bad style matchup but if they fought 10 times I have a hard time imagining an in shape Duran NOT catching Hearns' questionable chin once or twice.

Poet

Hearns questionable chin????

Thomas Hearns retired with a record of 61-5(KO4)-1 fighting from 147lbs upto 190lbs ... Those 4 KO losses coming by
1/. Leonard TKO14 - Hearns ran out of gas
2/. Hagler TKO3 - Hearns fighting with broken right-hand
3/. Barkley - TKO3 Hearns caught with brutal left-hook
4/. Grant - TKO2 Hearns slips and breaks ankle

you dont fight in 7 weight divisions winning world titles in 5 if you have a questionable chin... Iran Barkley caught Hearns with a brutal left-hook thrown in desperation as he was only seconds from being stopped himself... Barkley had a very good Rap in his left and won world titles in 2 weight divisions with it.. IMO Hearns chin was OK he took plenty of bombs on it from some great hitters

One more round
01-04-2010, 09:52 PM
Hearns questionable chin????

Thomas Hearns retired with a record of 61-5(KO4)-1 fighting from 147lbs upto 190lbs ... Those 4 KO losses coming by
1/. Leonard TKO14 - Hearns ran out of gas
2/. Hagler TKO3 - Hearns fighting with broken right-hand
3/. Barkley - TKO3 Hearns caught with brutal left-hook
4/. Grant - TKO2 Hearns slips and breaks ankle

you dont fight in 7 weight divisions winning world titles in 5 if you have a questionable chin... Iran Barkley caught Hearns with a brutal left-hook thrown in desperation as he was only seconds from being stopped himself... Barkley had a very good Rap in his left and won world titles in 2 weight divisions with it.. IMO Hearns chin was OK he took plenty of bombs on it from some great hitters

Look you are right to an extent, and Tommy was a great, great fighter who
I'ma fan of and have lots of respect for, and while his chin wasn't complete glass it was definitely a hole in his armour, perhaps the only real hole in his game along with stamina. And that's why it get's mentioned.

To beat Tommy you had to hurt him and knock him out, Tommy was near impossible to outbox, because he was such a fast, fluid fighter with such a long reach and great power. And because his chin was the one thing that let him down (along with stamina) it get's mentioned alot. Not necessarily because it was really bad, but because that's how you beat Tommy Hearns. If the guy had the beard of a guy like Leonard, as well as better stamina, he would have been virtually unbeatable.

istmeno
01-05-2010, 03:49 AM
Look you are right to an extent, and Tommy was a great, great fighter who
I'ma fan of and have lots of respect for, and while his chin wasn't complete glass it was definitely a hole in his armour, perhaps the only real hole in his game along with stamina. And that's why it get's mentioned.

To beat Tommy you had to hurt him and knock him out, Tommy was near impossible to outbox, because he was such a fast, fluid fighter with such a long reach and great power. And because his chin was the one thing that let him down (along with stamina) it get's mentioned alot. Not necessarily because it was really bad, but because that's how you beat Tommy Hearns. If the guy had the beard of a guy like Leonard, as well as better stamina, he would have been virtually unbeatable.the only point i differ with is that hearns was NEAR impossible to out box. i am hard pressed to see any boxer i have seen out box hearns. the only way to beat tommy was to have the tools to beat him in a fire fight. hearns was too long too quick and too powerful to outbox.

BennyST
01-05-2010, 10:07 AM
Hearns questionable chin????

Thomas Hearns retired with a record of 61-5(KO4)-1 fighting from 147lbs upto 190lbs ... Those 4 KO losses coming by
1/. Leonard TKO14 - Hearns ran out of gas
2/. Hagler TKO3 - Hearns fighting with broken right-hand
3/. Barkley - TKO3 Hearns caught with brutal left-hook
4/. Grant - TKO2 Hearns slips and breaks ankle

you dont fight in 7 weight divisions winning world titles in 5 if you have a questionable chin... Iran Barkley caught Hearns with a brutal left-hook thrown in desperation as he was only seconds from being stopped himself... Barkley had a very good Rap in his left and won world titles in 2 weight divisions with it.. IMO Hearns chin was OK he took plenty of bombs on it from some great hitters

Yeah, I get confused by the chin thing, but it was his only flaw apart from his stamina. While not questionable in itself on nearly every other fighter, on Tommy hearns it was because the only way to beat him, and you could beat him, was to crack his chin and hurt him. Very, very, very few could do it.

Oh, and just to correct a couple of points. It was a right hand that Barkley nailed him with and the broken hand thing doesn't matter. Hagler was going to win no matter what. He just knew how to beat Hearns.

Barkley was also a three division world champion, not two. MW, SMW and LHW plus a minor HW title.

Doctor_Tenma
01-05-2010, 10:17 AM
I disagree with alot of people here, that wasn't the same Roberto Duran Leonard faced. That Duran looked damn slow, I do believe he would have been able to close the gap alot quicker had this been a younger WW Roberto Duran. Duran had the defense/ durability to tag that chin; give or take. So I'm not with that "Hearns beats Duran 10 times out of 10". It'd be alot more competitive where either man could win. To answer the TS's question, a rematch @ 154 during that period, Duran still loses.

bojangles1987
01-05-2010, 11:04 AM
Hearns does the exact same thing to Duran every time. It was a matchup Duran couldn't win, similar to Foreman-Frazier.

GJC
01-05-2010, 04:18 PM
Duran apologists will claim that Duran was out of shape and not motivated to fight one of the best and biggest stars in boxing at the time,and yet he was motivated enough to poke a green Davey Moore in the eye.


Well not really interested in whether you think I'm a Duran apologist, I would note though that you make a good case for apologising for every opponent Duran beat.
As for poking a "green" Davey Moore in the eye, the guy was the defending world champion. If you are too "green" to defend it against all comers then don't fight for it in the first place. Did Duran take steroids or have loaded gloves? No, but if allowed by the referee he would bend rules to the limit, that's boxing, it can be a rough sport you know?
Like I said I never thought that it was a good style match up for Duran but at the time I was really looking forward to this fight between 2 of my favourite fighters of the time. As soon as Duran got in the ring I knew it wouldn't last long, he looked flat and listless. Wouldn't have minded seeing the fight with a good Duran in it as I think it would have been a good one. Do I think Hearns would have probably won? Yes.
Do I think that Hearns would knock a prime Duran out in 2 rounds? Doubt it, no one else ever did.

mrboxer
01-05-2010, 07:21 PM
no,even if hearns had one hand tied to his back he still would of kayoed duran,look at the first fight duran could not even hit him higher than the belt,and when duran got hit with the right he was out before his jaw made an impression of his face,he was out like a light when he awoke,the announcer asked what happened and he mumbled i dont remember anything,no kidding he was out,duran is overrated and in my books if he were fighting today he would not even be in the top 50:boxing:

DeepSleep
01-05-2010, 08:00 PM
Hearns is all wrong for Duran. Still Duran has a punchers chance of landing a bomb but I wouldn't give him much of a chance.

One more round
01-05-2010, 08:24 PM
no,even if hearns had one hand tied to his back he still would of kayoed duran,look at the first fight duran could not even hit him higher than the belt,and when duran got hit with the right he was out before his jaw made an impression of his face,he was out like a light when he awoke,the announcer asked what happened and he mumbled i dont remember anything,no kidding he was out,duran is overrated and in my books if he were fighting today he would not even be in the top 50:boxing:

you are the worst troll on the site, I have no idea why they haven't banned you.

tanibanana
01-05-2010, 11:37 PM
Duran is way better than Hearns, problem though,
Hearns is Nightmare match-up for Duran..

mrboxer
01-06-2010, 12:02 PM
i am not a troll,i just tell it like it is,duran is overrated:boxing:

Calilloyd
01-06-2010, 07:43 PM
You know, made the necessary adjustments?

or do u think Hearns was just a case of a bad style match up for him and a win over such fighter was never really possible?

I don't see Duran beating Hearns under any circumstances. The height and reach was too much and Duran could not walk through Hearns punches to get inside. At welterweight it would have been the same thing. I also don't buy that Duran was out of shape for that fight. That's a cop out. Every fighter has a nemesis and Hearns was for Duran.

al22tec
01-06-2010, 08:12 PM
i also think Duran met his match with Hearns. Even if the fight was done earlier, the fight may be more competitive, but Hearns will still come out ahead.