View Full Version : New Year's trivia: 5 easy(?) questions for the boxing historian.


Bundana
01-01-2010, 01:13 PM
Since this is the history section, why not kick off the new year with a little boxing trivia? No prizes - just for the fun of it!

We are seeking the names of the 5 men described below:


1.
He was the youngest man ever with 100 documented (boxrec) fights under his belt.

hhascup: Ted Kid Lewis (not yet 19 years old!)

2.
He lost to more world champions than any other boxer.

hhascup: Angel Robinson Garcia (lost to 15 world champs)

3.
He was the winner of the first olympic bout that took place between two future world champions.

eyeofdatiger: Matt Wells (beat Valdemar Holberg in 1908 in London)

4.
He was 2-6 in world title fight... against a total of just 3 opponents.

Bigdaddy_Vh: Jersey Joe Walcott

5.
He never won the world heavyweight crown... but he fought more men who challenged for this title than any other non-champion.

hhascup: Joe Bugner (17)


(Time limit: 3 days)

Bigdaddy_Vh
01-02-2010, 12:12 AM
these are pure guesses

1. sugar ray robinson
2. Archie Moore
3.Lennox Lewis
4.Jersey Joe Walcott
5. Archie Moore

Bundana
01-02-2010, 01:11 AM
these are pure guesses

1. sugar ray robinson
2. Archie Moore
3.Lennox Lewis
4.Jersey Joe Walcott
5. Archie Moore

Good guesses - but only Walcott is correct.

Kiid Dynamite
01-02-2010, 06:25 AM
these are pure guesses as well lol

1. archie moore
2. dunno
3. Howard david jr
5. george chuvalo - i think thats right

Bundana
01-02-2010, 07:18 AM
these are pure guesses as well lol

1. archie moore
2. dunno
3. Howard david jr
5. george chuvalo - i think thats right

Archie Moore was actually close to 30, when he reached fight number 100 - so he's definitely not our man. Nor is Howard Davis in the 3rd question.

But George Chuvalo is a VERY good guess... only a couple of guys ahead of him in this category!

Rocker
01-02-2010, 09:19 AM
1. Harry Greb
2. Fritzie Zivic
3. Roy Jones
4. Jersey Joe Walcott
5. Earnie Shavers

Bundana
01-02-2010, 10:07 AM
1. Harry Greb
2. Fritzie Zivic
3. Roy Jones
4. Jersey Joe Walcott
5. Earnie Shavers

Sorry, but only Walcott is a right answer - though Greb, Zivic and Shavers are all pretty good guesses, I think.

bklynboy
01-02-2010, 11:56 AM
Sorry, but only Walcott is a right answer - though Greb, Zivic and Shavers are all pretty good guesses, I think.

QUESTION 1. Youngest to reach 100 fights.

My first thought was Harry Greb, but the OP said that was incorrect. My next two guesses both reached there when they were about 26. Joe Gans and Henry Armstrong.

Joe Gans was younger: 25 years 11 months. Armstrong was 26 years and 3 months.

Good questions. Thx for the trivia.

Bundana
01-02-2010, 01:25 PM
QUESTION 1. Youngest to reach 100 fights.

My first thought was Harry Greb, but the OP said that was incorrect. My next two guesses both reached there when they were about 26. Joe Gans and Henry Armstrong.

Joe Gans was younger: 25 years 11 months. Armstrong was 26 years and 3 months.

Good questions. Thx for the trivia.

No... I'm afraid, it isn't Gans either.

The man we are looking for was world champion - and much, MUCH younger than Gans, when he reached the 100 mark!

GJC
01-02-2010, 02:39 PM
1) Willie Pep
2) Fritzie Zivic
3) Can't think beyond Lewis/Bowe!
4) Walcott
5) James Tillis?

Kiid Dynamite
01-02-2010, 02:55 PM
1) Willie Pep
2) Fritzie Zivic
3) Can't think beyond Lewis/Bowe!
4) Walcott
5) James Tillis?

ooooooooooooo i think it was tillis, i was tryna figure out his name again earlier on

GJC
01-02-2010, 03:05 PM
ooooooooooooo i think it was tillis, i was tryna figure out his name again earlier on
Don't know whether it was or not but I'm guessing it was someone in that era

Bundana
01-02-2010, 03:48 PM
1) Willie Pep
2) Fritzie Zivic
3) Can't think beyond Lewis/Bowe!
4) Walcott
5) James Tillis?

Your suggestions make a lot of sense (as I would have expected!) - but Walcott is still the only correct answer. So maybe the time has come for a few hints:

1. At 23 years and 9 months when he reached 100, Pep would seem like the logical choice here... but he is, amazingly, beaten by more than 5 years by the man we're looking for! As mentioned earlier, he was a world champ - and of course we have to go pretty far back in time.

2. Zivic of course lost an awful lot of fights - but not that many to world champs. Our man here never got a title shot, and was never even a top contender. But during his career he met 15 men, who - at one time or another - held a world title... and lost to each and every one of them!

3. Ok, this is a difficult one... as this particular olympic fight dates all the way back to 1908 in London.

5. It's not Tillis... but you're right; he's from the same era.

GJC
01-02-2010, 04:02 PM
re 1) Baby Arizmendi?

Bundana
01-02-2010, 04:19 PM
re 1) Baby Arizmendi?

No... though Arizmendi was one of the youngest pros ever, he was actually nearly 26 when he reached 100. You'll have to go even further back in time.

hhascup
01-02-2010, 08:14 PM
1.
He was the youngest man ever with 100 documented (boxrec) fights under his belt.
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><o></o>
Ted Kid Lewis was 18 years, 7 months and 11 days old.

hhascup
01-02-2010, 08:46 PM
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He lost to more world champions than any other boxer.
Angel Robinson Garcia

hhascup
01-02-2010, 08:55 PM
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 9"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 9"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/COMPAQ%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> 3.
He was the winner of the first olympic bout that took place between two future world champions.<o:p></o:p>

Louis Salica defeated Jackie Callura by decision in the opening round of the 112 pound class in 1932.

TysonJones3
01-02-2010, 09:06 PM
I think number 5 is jerry quarry.

hhascup
01-02-2010, 09:35 PM
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="ProgId" content="Word.Document"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 9"><meta name="Originator" content="Microsoft Word 9"><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/COMPAQ%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:.5in .5in .5in .25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:15 0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> 5.
He never won the world heavyweight crown... but he fought more men who challenged for this title than any other non-champion.

I am not sure what your looking for here. Do you want who fought the most Champions or who fought the most Title challengers.

Bert Cooper fought Foreman, Mercer, Bowe, Holyfield, Moorer, Bryd and Weaver PLUS he fought several more that challenged for the Title.

Bundana
01-03-2010, 02:24 AM
"He never won the world heavyweight crown... but he fought more men who challenged for this title than any other non-champion."

Well, hhascup... by this i mean fighters who challenged, successfully or unsuccessfully, for the heavyweight crown. So we're counting both champs, and challengers who didn't win the title.

Good job with the first two questions - you got both Ted Kid Lewis and Angel Robinson Garcia right!

But as I mentioned earlier, we have to go back to 1908 to find the answer to question 3... so it's not Louis Salica.

Bundana
01-03-2010, 02:29 AM
I think number 5 is jerry quarry.

Jerry quarry is right up there... but it's not him.

GJC
01-03-2010, 09:39 AM
Jerry quarry is right up there... but it's not him.
Jesse Ferguson?

Rocker
01-03-2010, 10:15 AM
3. Matt Wells

Bundana
01-03-2010, 10:38 AM
Jesse Ferguson?

You are very close... Ferguson is actually runner-up in this category!

Bundana
01-03-2010, 10:46 AM
3. Matt Wells

Exactly! He outpointed future champ Valdemar Holberg in the 1908 Olympics.

hhascup
01-03-2010, 04:16 PM
5. Joe Bugner

Bundana
01-03-2010, 04:47 PM
5. Joe Bugner

Yes my man, you are right - again!

This means, that we now have all the answers we were looking for.

Thanks to all who played along. Many good suggestions - even those that weren't spot on. Hope you had some fun.

hhascup
01-03-2010, 05:23 PM
Yes my man, you are right - again!

This means, that we now have all the answers we were looking for.

Thanks to all who played along. Many good suggestions - even those that weren't spot on. Hope you had some fun.

No thank you!

I should have gotten the Olympic question too but I tried to answer it without doing any research and that is what I get. PLUS, I have done a lot of research on the Olympic Games on all sports in the past, for the local papers around New Jersey and New York.

I got into it too late to get the one on Walcott. We put up a monument of him in Camden New Jersey a few years ago and I was the guest speaker.

http://www.trufanboxing.com/origin11.jpg

That's me in the middle, along with Pierre Benoist and Pete Nozza.

Thanks again, Henry Hascup

Bundana
01-03-2010, 06:11 PM
No thank you!

I should have gotten the Olympic question too but I tried to answer it without doing any research and that is what I get. PLUS, I have done a lot of research on the Olympic Games on all sports in the past, for the local papers around New Jersey and New York.

I got into it too late to get the one on Walcott. We put up a monument of him in Camden New Jersey a few years ago and I was the guest speaker.

http://www.trufanboxing.com/origin11.jpg

That's me in the middle, along with Pierre Benoist and Pete Nozza.

Thanks again, Henry Hascup

Yes, I can understand, that the Walcott question would have been a piece of cake - if you had seen it in time! Nice to "meet" a true boxing fan.

All the best, Bundana.

Kiid Dynamite
01-05-2010, 11:04 AM
No thank you!

I should have gotten the Olympic question too but I tried to answer it without doing any research and that is what I get. PLUS, I have done a lot of research on the Olympic Games on all sports in the past, for the local papers around New Jersey and New York.

I got into it too late to get the one on Walcott. We put up a monument of him in Camden New Jersey a few years ago and I was the guest speaker.

http://www.trufanboxing.com/origin11.jpg

That's me in the middle, along with Pierre Benoist and Pete Nozza.

Thanks again, Henry Hascup

isnt the guy on the left the crook judge for diaz vs malignaggi? lol

hhascup
01-05-2010, 09:46 PM
isnt the guy on the left the crook judge for diaz vs malignaggi? lol

No, he Judged the Williams/Martinez bout, BUT I think that is what you meant.

Pierre Benoist, who I knew for 25-30 years, is no crook. He is actually one of the most honest individuals I have ever met. He has been the President of the Lou Costello Club in Paterson, N.J. and the President of the Silver Gloves in New Jersey for years.

If he was on the take, don't you think he would have made his score a lot closer?

http://www.trufanboxing.com/origin11.jpg
That's me in the middle, along with Pierre and Pete Nozza.

By the way, here's the scoring of that bout. Several states, including New Jersey, when Larry Hazzard was the Commissioner, tried scoring the bouts by a majority scoring system. This meant the at the end of each round, they would look at all 3 judges cards, then throw out the odd one. Example, if 2 Judges had boxer "A"winning and the other Judge had boxer "B" winning, they would throw out the one that had boxer "B." If 1 Judge had it for boxer "A", another had it for boxer "B" and the other judge had it even, the round would be scored as an even round.

Rd - Carter - J. Lederman - H. Lederman - Beniost
1. --- 10-9 ------ 10-9 ----------- 9-10 ----- 10-10
2. --- 9-10 ------ 9-10 ----------- 9-10 ------ 9-10
3. --- 9-10 ------ 9-10 ----------- 9-10 ------ 10-9
4. ***8211;-- 10-9 ------ 10-9 ---------- 10-9 ------ 10-9
5. --***8211; 10-9 ------ 9-10 ---------- 10-9 ------ 10-9
6. --- 10-9 ------ 10-9 ----------- 10-9 ------ 10-9
7. ***8211;-- 10-9 ------ 10-9 ---------- 10-9 ------ 10-9
8. ***8211;-- 10-9 ------ 10-9 ---------- 9-10 ------ 10-9
9. ***8211;-- 9-10 ------ 10-9 ---------- 10-9 ------ 10-9
10. --- 9-10 ----- 9-10 ---------- 9-10 ------ 10-9
11. --- 9-10 ----- 9-10 ---------- 10-9 ------ 10-9
12. --- 10-9 ----- 9-10 ------- ---10-9 ------ 10-9

If they scored it by the majority scoring system, here's what the score would have been. I also included Harold in the one on the left, just to see how the scoring would come out.

Scoring w/Harold----Scoring wo/Harold
1. Williams 2-1-1-----Williams 2-0-1
2. Martinez 4-0--------Martinez 3-0
3. Martinez 3-1--------Martinez 2-1
4. Williams 4-0--------Williams 3-0
5. Williams 3-1--------Williams 2-1
6. Williams 4-0--------Williams 3-0
7. Williams 4-0--------Williams 3-0
8. Williams 3-1--------Williams 3-0
9. Williams 3-1--------Williams 2-1
10. Martinez 3-1-------Martinez 2-1
11. Even 2-2------------Martinez 2-1
12. Williams 3-1-------Williams 2-1

117-112 Williams-----116-112 Williams

Kiid Dynamite
01-06-2010, 04:13 AM
No, he Judged the Williams/Martinez bout, BUT I think that is what you meant.

Pierre Benoist, who I knew for 25-30 years, is no crook. He is actually one of the most honest individuals I have ever met. He has been the President of the Lou Costello Club in Paterson, N.J. and the President of the Silver Gloves in New Jersey for years.

If he was on the take, don't you think he would have made his score a lot closer?

http://www.trufanboxing.com/origin11.jpg
That's me in the middle, along with Pierre and Pete Nozza.

By the way, here's the scoring of that bout. Several states, including New Jersey, when Larry Hazzard was the Commissioner, tried scoring the bouts by a majority scoring system. This meant the at the end of each round, they would look at all 3 judges cards, then throw out the odd one. Example, if 2 Judges had boxer "A"winning and the other Judge had boxer "B" winning, they would throw out the one that had boxer "B." If 1 Judge had it for boxer "A", another had it for boxer "B" and the other judge had it even, the round would be scored as an even round.

Rd - Carter - J. Lederman - H. Lederman - Beniost
1. --- 10-9 ------ 10-9 ----------- 9-10 ----- 10-10
2. --- 9-10 ------ 9-10 ----------- 9-10 ------ 9-10
3. --- 9-10 ------ 9-10 ----------- 9-10 ------ 10-9
4. -- 10-9 ------ 10-9 ---------- 10-9 ------ 10-9
5. -- 10-9 ------ 9-10 ---------- 10-9 ------ 10-9
6. --- 10-9 ------ 10-9 ----------- 10-9 ------ 10-9
7. -- 10-9 ------ 10-9 ---------- 10-9 ------ 10-9
8. -- 10-9 ------ 10-9 ---------- 9-10 ------ 10-9
9. -- 9-10 ------ 10-9 ---------- 10-9 ------ 10-9
10. --- 9-10 ----- 9-10 ---------- 9-10 ------ 10-9
11. --- 9-10 ----- 9-10 ---------- 10-9 ------ 10-9
12. --- 10-9 ----- 9-10 ------- ---10-9 ------ 10-9

If they scored it by the majority scoring system, here's what the score would have been. I also included Harold in the one on the left, just to see how the scoring would come out.

Scoring w/Harold----Scoring wo/Harold
1. Williams 2-1-1-----Williams 2-0-1
2. Martinez 4-0--------Martinez 3-0
3. Martinez 3-1--------Martinez 2-1
4. Williams 4-0--------Williams 3-0
5. Williams 3-1--------Williams 2-1
6. Williams 4-0--------Williams 3-0
7. Williams 4-0--------Williams 3-0
8. Williams 3-1--------Williams 3-0
9. Williams 3-1--------Williams 2-1
10. Martinez 3-1-------Martinez 2-1
11. Even 2-2------------Martinez 2-1
12. Williams 3-1-------Williams 2-1

117-112 Williams-----116-112 Williams

No, I am talking about DIAZ VS Malignaggi, where in the post fight interview Paulie said he got f***** by some boxing judge who he said would try screw him prior to the fight

One more round
01-06-2010, 05:57 AM
No, I am talking about DIAZ VS Malignaggi, where in the post fight interview Paulie said he got f***** by some boxing judge who he said would try screw him prior to the fight

that's gale van hoy?? or something like that

One more round
01-06-2010, 05:58 AM
No, he Judged the Williams/Martinez bout, BUT I think that is what you meant.

Pierre Benoist, who I knew for 25-30 years, is no crook. He is actually one of the most honest individuals I have ever met. He has been the President of the Lou Costello Club in Paterson, N.J. and the President of the Silver Gloves in New Jersey for years.

If he was on the take, don't you think he would have made his score a lot closer?

http://www.trufanboxing.com/origin11.jpg
That's me in the middle, along with Pierre and Pete Nozza.

By the way, here's the scoring of that bout. Several states, including New Jersey, when Larry Hazzard was the Commissioner, tried scoring the bouts by a majority scoring system. This meant the at the end of each round, they would look at all 3 judges cards, then throw out the odd one. Example, if 2 Judges had boxer "A"winning and the other Judge had boxer "B" winning, they would throw out the one that had boxer "B." If 1 Judge had it for boxer "A", another had it for boxer "B" and the other judge had it even, the round would be scored as an even round.

Rd - Carter - J. Lederman - H. Lederman - Beniost
1. --- 10-9 ------ 10-9 ----------- 9-10 ----- 10-10
2. --- 9-10 ------ 9-10 ----------- 9-10 ------ 9-10
3. --- 9-10 ------ 9-10 ----------- 9-10 ------ 10-9
4. -- 10-9 ------ 10-9 ---------- 10-9 ------ 10-9
5. -- 10-9 ------ 9-10 ---------- 10-9 ------ 10-9
6. --- 10-9 ------ 10-9 ----------- 10-9 ------ 10-9
7. -- 10-9 ------ 10-9 ---------- 10-9 ------ 10-9
8. -- 10-9 ------ 10-9 ---------- 9-10 ------ 10-9
9. -- 9-10 ------ 10-9 ---------- 10-9 ------ 10-9
10. --- 9-10 ----- 9-10 ---------- 9-10 ------ 10-9
11. --- 9-10 ----- 9-10 ---------- 10-9 ------ 10-9
12. --- 10-9 ----- 9-10 ------- ---10-9 ------ 10-9

If they scored it by the majority scoring system, here's what the score would have been. I also included Harold in the one on the left, just to see how the scoring would come out.

Scoring w/Harold----Scoring wo/Harold
1. Williams 2-1-1-----Williams 2-0-1
2. Martinez 4-0--------Martinez 3-0
3. Martinez 3-1--------Martinez 2-1
4. Williams 4-0--------Williams 3-0
5. Williams 3-1--------Williams 2-1
6. Williams 4-0--------Williams 3-0
7. Williams 4-0--------Williams 3-0
8. Williams 3-1--------Williams 3-0
9. Williams 3-1--------Williams 2-1
10. Martinez 3-1-------Martinez 2-1
11. Even 2-2------------Martinez 2-1
12. Williams 3-1-------Williams 2-1

117-112 Williams-----116-112 Williams

I respect that you know the man and I am not trying to insult his character, but with all due respect that was a terrible scorecard he gave in for Williams-Martinez.

hhascup
01-06-2010, 10:14 AM
that's gale van hoy?? or something like that


His name is Gale E. Van Hoy

hhascup
01-06-2010, 10:46 AM
I respect that you know the man and I am not trying to insult his character, but with all due respect that was a terrible scorecard he gave in for Williams-Martinez.

I know what your saying and a score of 119-110 looks pretty bad, BUT if you use the majority scoring system, which I explained, the score comes out to 117-112 with Harold and 116-112 without him.

If you look at the chart I sent, you will see that he disagreed with the other judges, only twice. That was in the 3rd and 10th rounds. Julie Lederman disagreed twice also, the 5th and 12th rounds. Both Harold and Carter disagreed once as well.

You can also have a close bout and score it onesided. If every round is close BUT 1 boxer just edges out the other on all the rounds, this is where you will see a big difference in the scoring in a close bout.

The only rounds that I think were in question were the 3rd and 10th rounds on his score card. All the others, were in line with all the other judges.

Just for the record, I had it 115-113 for Williams BUT I was watching it on TV and also, listening to the commentators, which could have some bearing on my scoring. PLUS, a lot of rounds were very close and could have gone the other way.

Kiid Dynamite
01-06-2010, 03:53 PM
I havent seen Williams vs Martinez yet but diaz vs malignaggi was a joke