View Full Version : Appreciating what you've got: making the most of the heavyweight division


!! Anorak
04-24-2005, 07:26 AM
I remember once there was a heavyweight champ who ruled over the rest of the division with ease. For six years, barring the odd slip, he was on top, with hardly any of his enemies posing any threat to him. A technical craftsman that kept his opponents at bay using the finest application of the sweet science. My God, he was dull.

That man was Lennox Lewis, and while he was involved in some of the most tedious fights known to man, since he retired, many (including myself) have come to realise that he wasn't that bad after all. Surely that doesn't make sense? He's been made retroactively exciting? All those fights where he controlled outclassed opponents with the jab and engaged in slooooow paced bouts are now suddenly thrillers because what followed isn't as good?

I was thinking: the division should be more exciting now. While Vitali would seem to have too much for everyone, he's got enough potentially exploitable vulnerabilities to make it interesting (despite talk of Lewis's chin, history has now shown it was never that bad) and the rest of the division is wide open.

Anyone can join in the mix, and there's virtually no barriers in any level of the division. Whereas in the past British domestic level fighters were brought in as chopping boys to give champs a well-earned rest (such as Brian London with Muhammad Ali), the quality of the division is so weak that a crude bull like British Champ Matt Skelton can now be ranked in boxrec's top 20 and be ready to challenge. What's more, he'd even have a reasonable chance against some of the non-Klitschko belt holders.

You can get excitement generated against a fighter like Samuel Peter... apparently a huge hitter, though he's never had a premier chin to test, and he's painfully, painfully slow. Former middleweights can rise up to take on the top boys, and old-timers who would have been retired in nearly any other era can still drag their careers out indefinitely when people want star names.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is a golden era - far from it. But it's worth appreciating the potential there. Maybe the promoters should work together (I know, but I can dream) and produce heavyweight cards that reflect on the abilities of all involved.

I like see Chris Byrd fight as he's a technically fascinating fighter and takes on huge gambles in the size/weight differential. But he lacks punching power, which is one of the major reasons why the mainstream public prefer the higher weights. Even though I like him, I still wouldn't pay £15 for a PPV, unless he was fighting someone like Vitali. Even then I'd think twice.

But why not advertise him as a master strategist, and undercard him to Vitali? If you use all the belt holders together, and advertise their respective strengths and appeals, you could make a crossover show. Yet even clued-up guys like Don King are trying to trumpet John Ruiz as a respectable heavyweight. I know Ruiz and Stoney would never go for it, but if you advertised Ruiz for exactly what he is - an ugly brawler - someone might consider picking it up as part of a package. Even Stoney, an aggressive foul-mouth, has the potential to build up cult appeal, but his antics are frowned upon.

It's a sad time to be a heavyweight fan, but the potential is there for the division to reach the heights of mediocrity.

TyrantT316
04-24-2005, 10:25 AM
Brock showed enough last night for me to be excited for him as a HW contender...though he didn't look AWESOME...the fact that he was tested, had to get up from the canvas, took big shots, went the distance and was STILL throwing "combinations "(a forgoten term in HW boxing), with mean intentions, and showed NO fear of his opponent's size (similar to how Byrd shows no fear), and is very confident and seemingly smart...fought on the inside and outside to beat McCline...

I HONESTLY don't think even Mesi would have lasted with McCline

!! Anorak
04-24-2005, 10:52 AM
I HONESTLY don't think even Mesi would have lasted with McClineWhy is Mesi so hyped? I've only seen him once (against Monte Barrett) and he looked average to me. That said, 29-0 (25 KOs) isn't a bad record on paper, but would he really get the attention if he was ugly?

TyrantT316
04-24-2005, 10:56 AM
well Mesi's fights before Barrett and the fact that he is white and mainly fought in his backyard ala Hatton created the hype...he wasn't BAD...but we won't get to see how good he may have been since Jirov nearly killed him

ejk22
04-24-2005, 02:44 PM
Well this guy Brock is now definitely going to be pumped up by the media and boxing fans alike because of his defeat over Mccline. Also another up and coming heavyweight that people are discussing is Leo Nolan, he fought on the undercard of Castillo vs Wlad and was considered a possible replacement for Castillo when Castillo was rumored to be backing out.

!! Anorak
04-24-2005, 06:16 PM
Well this thread died a death, didn't it? :) I put a bit of thought into one and it tanks! :)

I reckon I'll stick to talking about Glen Johnson's head and being bummed in a jail cell by Ruiz...

vB Martin
04-25-2005, 04:12 AM
You made some good points int he post, but I still can't get excited.

True, Calvin Brock does seem to have some decents skills, and showed he can handle himself against a guy who carries 50 lbs on him, but McCline has never been an exciting fighter, except in the fluke KD of Grant that propelled him to the top.

Sam Peter does show some awesome power, and a chin of granite, but both of those are untested against real competition. The thing I like most about him is his ring awareness. I do think he will add some excitement.

Monte Barrett resurrected his career against someone in Dominick Guinn who is now proven to be a flash in the pan. He's now seen as a contender.

Riddick "The Retard" Bowe is on the comeback trail. Against my better judgement I watched his fight tonight. He has nothing left to offer unless he manages to drop 40 lbs, and convert another 20 from fat to muscle. Even after that, i don't think he has enough left to take a belt.

Wlad looked good this weekend, but looking good against a nobody who didn't seem to have any interest in fighting tells us nothing of his future.

We have 4 chapions in 4 governing bodies, only one of whom, Big Klit, can truly be called a champion. The rest are jokes who would not have reigned in a richer era of heavyweights.

Kid Achilles
04-25-2005, 11:01 AM
I'd be a lot more excited if they fought more often. It's difficulty to get excited about the heavyweights when every other fight is called off or pushed back due to injuries.

number6
04-25-2005, 12:03 PM
It would be a great idea to put all the champs on
the same bill.It caters for different people who
like different styles.One of the best fight cards
that i've seen was tyson v holyfield 1,there was also
two other heavyweight title fights on the bill.
moorer v botha,akinwande v zolkin.Neither fight was
ever going to be a classic,but it made good viewing
as you could compare each champ.
Interesting thread.

The Fix
04-25-2005, 01:23 PM
errr to much reading....rahman will be champ by the end of 2006

The Troll
04-25-2005, 02:51 PM
It would be a great idea to put all the champs on
the same bill.It caters for different people who
like different styles.One of the best fight cards
that i've seen was tyson v holyfield 1,there was also
two other heavyweight title fights on the bill.
moorer v botha,akinwande v zolkin.Neither fight was
ever going to be a classic,but it made good viewing
as you could compare each champ.
Interesting thread.

The Under card of Holyfield vs Bowe I

was Roy Jones Jr vs Bernard Hopkins....I think

number6
04-26-2005, 12:11 PM
The Under card of Holyfield vs Bowe I

was Roy Jones Jr vs Bernard Hopkins....I think

That was bowe v ferguson.

Kimmy
04-26-2005, 12:33 PM
The heavyweight division isn`t void of talent, its void of new talent. True sam peter and Brock are the new guns but they both seem to lack something. Vitali Klitscko seems to have nothing to worry him at this momment, i just which he`d fight more, i don`t think Klit will be still fighting in 18 months!

!! Anorak
05-02-2005, 09:30 PM
So is the picture now healthier after Saturday night? Weakest belt now goes to the WBO... though that will soon be Golota's I imagine...

paul750
05-03-2005, 10:33 AM
the problem is a lot of good heavyweights don't come into the mix at the same time, it's a shallow divison these days and it looks like klitchko will rule for the forseeable future, it needs 3 or 4 good heavyweights to emerge and make the divison a competitive one and an exciting one

guru
05-03-2005, 10:38 AM
i think there are some interesting match-ups in the division that can be made:

VK/toney
toney/byrd(boring, but interesting)
peter/brock
vk/golota or brewster

and you've got tyson, tua, harrison, valuev, wlad in the mix as well...

!! Anorak
05-03-2005, 01:53 PM
Interesting points. The division has certainly improved since this thread was started, what with Golota in the mix as well...

abdiel2k3
05-03-2005, 02:12 PM
Why is Mesi so hyped? I've only seen him once (against Monte Barrett) and he looked average to me. That said, 29-0 (25 KOs) isn't a bad record on paper, but would he really get the attention if he was ugly?
WTF are u talkin about
u even know who "Baby" Joe Mesi ?????
ur serioulsy talkin outta ur ass buddy

cuz he is ugly
:D

!! Anorak
05-03-2005, 02:15 PM
He's got the complexion to get the protection

abdiel2k3
05-03-2005, 02:16 PM
He's got the complexion to get the protection
lmao
true ture