Who would win this war between these 2 fighters

IMO it wouldn't be a war, it would be Pryor attacking Leonard, and Leonard runnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnning!

if anyone remembers

Hagler:Fight like a man u little *****

Leonard:...NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.....*keeps running*

Pryor by a spectacular KO

and if this fight was 15 rounds not 12!

i think pryor (ko/tko)..he was a beast and leonard was amazing (DLH has nothin on him) but i dont think he could have had the power to scare off pryor and would eventually get caught...i also would have loved to see a Prime Duran vs leonard...i dont think durans heart was int it much with leonard..or maybe ti was the weight,who knows.

Pryor was without a doubt an all time great. But, so was Leonard & all things being equal, a good big man always beats a good little man.
A Pryor was a naturally much smaller man than Leonard. You've got to remember that Pryor was actually a relatively small framed lightweight. Infact, he never had any difficulty making 135 lbs. It was actually his preferred weight class, but he couldn't anyone to fight him at that weight class. So, he took some fights at light welterweight to stay busy & make a living until he could land a title shot.
Unfortunately, none of the guys at lightweight would give him a shot, so they jumped at the chance when Antonio Cervantes agreed to defend against him. Then after he won the 140 lb title he had to stay there. But, he said on many occasions that he was ready, willing & able to go back down to 135 if it would help him land a big fight.
The only time he fought over 140 was after his trouble with drugs & he was just outsized & worn down in his only loss, a KO to the so so welterweight Bobby Joe Young.

Besides being too small for Leonard, he didn't match up well styles-wise with Leonard. He was pressure, volume puncher with big gaps in his defense. Not a terrible liability against men his own size, but Leonard would have just been too big, too strong & hit to hard for him.
Oh, Aaron would have certainly made it very exciting for as long as it lasted, but it wouldn't have lasted terribly long.
Leonard by KO4.

da fuk are u talkin about Duran would love to fight pryor, he quit cuz leonard wasing fighting him, he was clowning around. Duran nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnneeeeeeeveeeeeeeer had problems with guys who fought him toe to toe in his prime.U really think pryor is gonna try 2 box Duran?

Pryor was without a doubt an all time great. But, so was Leonard & all things being equal, a good big man always beats a good little man.
A Pryor was a naturally much smaller man than Leonard. You've got to remember that Pryor was actually a relatively small framed lightweight. Infact, he never had any difficulty making 135 lbs. It was actually his preferred weight class, but he couldn't anyone to fight him at that weight class. So, he took some fights at light welterweight to stay busy & make a living until he could land a title shot.
Unfortunately, none of the guys at lightweight would give him a shot, so they jumped at the chance when Antonio Cervantes agreed to defend against him. Then after he won the 140 lb title he had to stay there. But, he said on many occasions that he was ready, willing & able to go back down to 135 if it would help him land a big fight.
The only time he fought over 140 was after his trouble with drugs & he was just outsized & worn down in his only loss, a KO to the so so welterweight Bobby Joe Young.

Besides being too small for Leonard, he didn't match up well styles-wise with Leonard. He was pressure, volume puncher with big gaps in his defense. Not a terrible liability against men his own size, but Leonard would have just been too big, too strong & hit to hard for him.
Oh, Aaron would have certainly made it very exciting for as long as it lasted, but it wouldn't have lasted terribly long.
Leonard by KO4.

that is why he used to beat on Leonard in their sparring sessions

"that is why he used to beat on Leonard in their sparring sessions"


ummmmmmmmm u ever sparred?

when u sparr your not trying 2 beat the sh1t out of your opponent.

when u sparr your not trying 2 beat the sh1t out of your opponent.

I'm sorry I dunno what kind of sparring u been doing, but when u sparr as a pro, u dont take it lightly...

I'm sorry I dunno what kind of sparring u been doing, but when u sparr as a pro, u dont take it lightly...

When you sparr, you often work on weaknesses.

Ali was knocked down in sparring on a regular basis. That doesn't mean anything.
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I'm of the opinion Leonard would outbox and outfox Pryor.

I think, as was already mentioned, it would have been another example of a good bigger guy beating a good smaller guy.

It's suprizing to see people picking Pryor by KO.

If they fought, it would have been around the end of 1981 after Ray beat Hearns and just before Pryor beat Arguello (Ray retired shortly after that with the eye injury). At that point, Ray had walked through some serious power shots from Tommy Hearns and Roberto Duran. I just don't see Pryor knocking him out (although I'm not completely writing it off).

This is not to take anything away from Pryor, but Sugar Ray is a whole lot bigger/faster/stronger/better chinned/harder hitting than Alexis Arguello. And while Ray made the mistake of brawling (like Arguello did with Pryor) when he fought Duran, he easilly correct his approach for the rematch.

I think Ray would frustrate and outbox Pryor much like he did to Duran in their 2nd fight, with Pryor finishing the fight and losing a decesion.

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sparring in my book is working on different techniques seeing which ones are most comfortable to use... but pryor will get to leonard and knock him out... imo leonard move up in weight juss to avoid a fight with pryor when pryor wanted to fight him...

imo leonard move up in weight juss to avoid a fight with pryor when pryor wanted to fight him...

I don't see how that makes sense.

He fought at Welterweight to avoid Pryor, but fought Benetiez, Duran and Hearns?

You can't say moving up to fight away from Welter was avoiding Pryor, because Prior hadn't even fought once at 147, and Ray retired with that eye injury in 1982.
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Ray would kayo Aaron in 2 or 3 rounds.Too much skill.

Ray would kayo Aaron in 2 or 3 rounds.Too much skill.

I don't agree with u at all

I don't agree with u at all

Me either. That's extremely optimistic imo.

Me either. That's extremely optimistic imo.
Ya man, that was the stupidest thing i've EVER heard from someone


When has Sugar Ray ever knocked out a decent fighter in 3....

Aaron Pryor, a fighter that took Arguellos best shot and didnt even feel em....is gonna get knocked out by Sugar Ray?? How? cuz sugar ray runs the whole fight? Pryor will come blasting out of his corner and try n put u down, Hagler was big and a middleweight and he was slower, but Pryors got 10 times the speed of Hagler

I predect a Aaron Pryor knockout...

How did he TKO Hearns if he "runs" the whole fight? What about Benitez? It's called movement. You circle your oponent with footspeed so they can't get set in an offensive stance. Ali used it, so did Leonard.

Leonard was too big, srong, fast and skilled for Pryor at welterweight. Sugar Ray whould've controlled almost the entire fight to win a 15 round decision. It whould've been a great fight but one fighter whould've been clearing winning, and that fighter whould've been Leonard.

Leonard would have beat his ass. That is, unless the "honorable" Panama Lewis could have found a way to drug Sugar Ray.

Leonard would have beat his ass. That is, unless the "honorable" Panama Lewis could have found a way to drug Sugar Ray.
your ****in stupid...

I always wondered why Leonard didn't want to fight Pryor. There had to be a real reason. I would pick Leonard by close decision. No way Leonard beats Pryor easy.

I always wondered why Leonard didn't want to fight Pryor. There had to be a real reason. I would pick Leonard by close decision. No way Leonard beats Pryor easy.
at least ur opinion aint biased man
there could be a high chance of leonard beating Pryor but it can also be the other way around...

Anyone who thinks Leonard beats him in less than 3 rounds is stupid...

How did he TKO Hearns if he "runs" the whole fight? What about Benitez? It's called movement. You circle your oponent with footspeed so they can't get set in an offensive stance. Ali used it, so did Leonard.

Leonard was too big, srong, fast and skilled for Pryor at welterweight. Sugar Ray whould've controlled almost the entire fight to win a 15 round decision. It whould've been a great fight but one fighter whould've been clearing winning, and that fighter whould've been Leonard.

He had no option but to chase Tommy - as he was clearly behind on all the scorecards.

AND yes he ALWAYS ran - like the ***** he was.

He had no option but to chase Tommy - as he was clearly behind on all the scorecards.

AND yes he ALWAYS ran - like the ***** he was.

Yes, I agree...
When he fought Hearns, Hearns was hurt and that's why he was able to chase him and he was behind and had absolutely NO choice.

He will not go toe to toe with Pryor or it might end up like Duran-Leonard I

If he runs, Pryor will catch him, cuz pryor aint slow...

AND yes he ALWAYS ran - like the ***** he was.



Just like Ali "Ran" during his prime?

Using footwork was part of Ray's make up.

Making statements like that just make you look like an idiot.
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Just like Ali "Ran" during his prime?

Using footwork was part of Ray's make up.

Making statements like that just make you look like an idiot.
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True, when he ran it was his style and it worked real good...

The way he ran from Hagler.....that was just BULL****
He ran, he didnt throw while he was running(which Ali was GREAT at doing), he just ran from Hagler then threw a flurry to try n steal a round which was bull****...

but about his running style, that worked real well against duran etc.

I'm of the opinion Leonard would outbox and outfox Pryor.

I think, as was already mentioned, it would have been another example of a good bigger guy beating a good smaller guy.

It's suprizing to see people picking Pryor by KO.

If they fought, it would have been around the end of 1981 after Ray beat Hearns and just before Pryor beat Arguello (Ray retired shortly after that with the eye injury). At that point, Ray had walked through some serious power shots from Tommy Hearns and Roberto Duran. I just don't see Pryor knocking him out (although I'm not completely writing it off).

This is not to take anything away from Pryor, but Sugar Ray is a whole lot bigger/faster/stronger/better chinned/harder hitting than Alexis Arguello. And while Ray made the mistake of brawling (like Arguello did with Pryor) when he fought Duran, he easilly correct his approach for the rematch.

I think Ray would frustrate and outbox Pryor much like he did to Duran in their 2nd fight, with Pryor finishing the fight and losing a decesion.

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Even though Ray would have been noticeably bigger I think he'd have given ground and a close fight would go to him though he may not have necessarily have deserved it. I think Pryor would have tried to maul him, done some damage, more than Leonard did to him ...

... but ultimately failed to put him away and lost a close decision. No one ever gave "The Hawk" anything and their sympathy would have gone to the more popular Leonard again.

Even though Pryor was called "The Hawk", I always viewed him more as "The Chickenhawk" like that little tough assed, tough talking chickenhawk that was always after Foghorn Leghorn. I respect his ability immensely but doubt any judges would see it his way.

He'd have to KO Leonard which isn't out of the question but I don't like the odds of that.

Probably a fair point - i am a bit of a hater when it comes to SRL.

Duran didn't have to KO Leonard, he got the decision. So there whould be no excuse for Pryor. I not bias towards Leonard, I love both fighters; I'm not biased against him either like some of you are. I just know when he's simply better than some one at a particular weight. He's simply better than Pryor at welter and whould win a clear decision after a hard fight. Aaron was a great fighter at 140, I just don't think he whould beat Leonard.

You can't knock someone out while running. So how did Leonard TKO Hearns and Benitez if he "always runs". That whould be impossible because you can't throw an effective punch while running. What he does is he circles his opponent throwing strait punches from the outside using his reach. He couldn't do that against Hearns, which he learned, because Hearns had a 4 inch reach advantage. So he used head movement to get inside Hearns' jab and threw hooks to the head and body, which was effective after about the 7th round or so untill he got the TKO.

Since Hagler had the reach advantage against him, Leonard circled him then let Hagler get close, threw quick combinations (hooks to the head and body), then quickly got out of range and circled again. He traded with Hagler on several occassions if you remember, outlanding him by about 2 to 1 by the end of the fight. He just wouldn't stay still when he fought in that style, which frustrates the fighter he's fighting against as well as people rooting for that fighter; so I understand where all the Leonard hate is coming from.

noway leonard could beat pryor lesser than 3round. he took all best shoot from arguello, and those shoot could break bone but pryor didnt even feel them so i cant see how leonard could ko pryor. i predict a close ud to leonard.

Leonard is naturally bigger and better in just about every category outside of workrate. Leonard would take a fairly easy 15 round decision. Pryor would have a few nice moments and would press Ray the whole way but Leonard is just too much for him at 147.

I always wondered why Leonard didn't want to fight Pryor. There had to be a real reason. I would pick Leonard by close decision. No way Leonard beats Pryor easy.
I hesitate to post this because I have at some other boards and a couple of times some jerk has called me a liar. Trust me...I have never met anyone on a web site that I have felt compelled to lie to in order to impress them. I just happen to have led a very interesting life. That being said......
In the early to mid 80s I was bassist and road manager with a musical group called The Platters. (ask your mother or in some cases, your grandmothers about them)
In '85, we were playing at Harrah's in Lake Tahoe and between shows one night, I met Ray and his bodyguard on the casino floor. I introduced myself and we had a couple of drinks. Ray was a very pleasant cat....very polite. As a boxing fan AND a native of Cincinnati (Pryor's hometown) I was not shy about asking why they could never find a catch-weight and get a fight signed. I knew that Pryor was game...it would have elevated him to the next level of earnings! So why wasn't the fight made??
Sugar just smiled that million dollar smile and said, "Would YOU wanna fight him if you didn't have to?"
I invited them and their guests to the late show to see the band perform. Even asked if he would want seats in the back and no acknowledgement from the stage. Told him that it would be nice if the guys could introduce him. He said he didn't mind.
But they never showed for the show.....I guess he was afraid of ME too! ;)

I'm pretty sure that if the money was right Leonard would've fought Aaron Pryor. In my book Leonard was just too strong for him, and Leonard (being the brash and confident guy that he was as a fighter) had to have known and/or was thinking that. Even if the fight was close Leonard whould've found a way to win because IMO he also had the mental edge.

Ray Leonard would have demolished Aaron Pryor.
Tell me ONE foe that Pryor faced who was on Leonard's level ?
Don't give me Arguello, either. Arguello was at his best at 130, in the late 70's.
Pryor struggled like hell with the smaller, slower Arguello. Believe me, Ray Leonard's 147 lb. punches would have inflicted far more damage than Arguello's 140lbers would have.
Lb 4 lb., Arguello was a much bigger hitter than Leonard.....but we're talking about a significant size difference.

Pryor's style would have played right into the hands of Ray.....Always off-balance, susceptible to getting dropped (see Akio Kameda, DuJuan Johnson, Cervantes).....& vulnerable to body shots....
Pryor was too small & flawed to hang with Ray Leonard.

No offense to Pryor, who was a terrific fighter. But Ray was bigger, & just plain better.

pryor hit harder the leanord and could dance all night too ..it never happened cuz leanord didnt wanna fight pryor

pryor hit harder the leanord and could dance all night too ..it never happened cuz leanord didnt wanna fight pryor


Ray Leonard would have knocked Alexis Arguello out within three rounds.
Pryor needed 14 rds, & then 10 rounds, to turn the trick(s).

I guess Pryor could have outboxed Ray Leonard ? Not on this planet.

As for Ray avoiding Pryor ? LMAO !

Ray Leonard fought Tommy Hearns & Marvin Hagler.....but was afraid of PRYOR ?

I seriously think most of you are getting your **** second-handed. Those who were following boxing during that time period......know you youngins have bought into a MYTH that just sounds really good today.

Did you guys see Pryor struggling with the likes of Miguel Montilla, DuJuan Johnson, Akio Kameda, Nick Furlano, Gary Hinton ?

Ray Leonard would have knocked them all out in two rounds, all in the same night.

i dont like leonard that much, but he was a great fighter, who always found a way to win... he had a great chin, speed, power, agility, stamina, etc.... i dont see how pryor could have beaten him...

Who would win this war between these 2 fighters

IMO it wouldn't be a war, it would be Pryor attacking Leonard, and Leonard runnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnning!

if anyone remembers

Hagler:Fight like a man u little *****

Leonard:...NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.....*keeps running*

Pryor by a spectacular KO

and if this fight was 15 rounds not 12!
Leonard went out liek b*tch, he knew pryor would beat him down, that's why he made sure the fight didn't happen...

Leonard went out liek b*tch, he knew pryor would beat him down, that's why he made sure the fight didn't happen...



You have no clue, do you ?

Afraid of Pryor.....but not afraid of Hearns & Hagler ?

Ray Leonard was afraid of a guy who was dropped by Akio Kameda ?

You have no clue, do you ?

Afraid of Pryor.....but not afraid of Hearns & Hagler ?

Ray Leonard was afraid of a guy who was dropped by Akio Kameda ?
So why didn't they fight?

So why didn't they fight?

Because Ray Leonard was a 147 lber....making mega-fights with 147lbers like Hearns, & eyeing a jump to 160 to face Hagler.

Up until he fought Arguello, Pryor was a fighter who was known, & highly respected, only by those who closely followed the game. He was a 140lber trying to make a name for himself.
In fact, I shouldn't even say he was that respected. 99% of the "experts" polled.....thought Arguello was going to KILL him....not just beat.....but crush him.

Pryor beat Arguello in the middle of November '82.....Ray Leonard had retired from the sport a week before.....eliminating the chance of a fight with HAGLER.
Ray was gonna fight one of the greatest, fiercest 160lbers in history in Hagler....but was afraid of a 140lber who still had something to prove ? Think about it....

I'm not even a huge Leonard fan.....but I am an objective fight fan.

I pick Pryor by late KO. Pryor could take the best punche and hit you back with 10 harder punches from all angles. Didn't Pryor beat Hears in the amateurs? I can't recall. He may be small and that may be a problem for most fighters but Pryor was like a pitbull. No one would ever get enough distance on him coz Aaron knew the game of cutting off the ring too well, despite his smaller size. He was also faster than Ray.

Ray used his boxing sense to beat his opponent on his terms. When he took on an aging Hagler, he fought him on his terms: got a bigger ring, picked 12 rounds instead of 15 knowing that Hagler's power punches did not get any less lethal.

At 147....Thomas Hearns may have been the most lethal offensive machine in boxing history.
Did he KO Leonard ? No ?
Did he hit leonard ? He must have.....he was ahead on points.

Yet......Aaron Pryor.....all 140 lbs of him....was gonna stop Ray Leonard ?

I cannot believe what I'm reading.

"He was also faster than Ray. "

Perhaps one of the dumbest things I've ever read.

"He was also faster than Ray. "

Perhaps one of the dumbest things I've ever read.
actually, he was quite a bit faster than Ray IMO, Ray was stronger but nobody could keep up with the Hawk's hand-speed

actually, he was quite a bit faster than Ray IMO, Ray was stronger but nobody could keep up with the Hawk's hand-speed

This would be a fight that nobody could really predict. There's just too many variables you would have to consider. The main variable being would Sugar Ray run or go toe-to-toe. Or will Pryor come at Ray or try to outbox him. You just never know. If I had to make an educated guess considering Sugar Ray's past fights I'd have to say he would run around the ring and try to steal rounds with flurries. It would be on Pryor's shoulders to chase him around and prevent this. If he can keep up that I would give him a late-round TKO or possibly a decision. Pryor called Sugar Ray out in front of everybody and it would have been a big money fight. There must be some reason he didn't want to fight him. Maybe he remembered those sparring sessions and while Sugar Ray might not have been sparring like it was a real fight, who's to say Pryor was being all serious either.

actually, he was quite a bit faster than Ray IMO, Ray was stronger but nobody could keep up with the Hawk's hand-speed

Pryor was NOT faster than Ray. Leonard had the much faster hands and feet. Ray was known as one of the fastest punching fighters in history and Pryor wasn't for a reason. Sure, Pryor had fast hands, but he was no where near as fast as Leonard at his fastest. I'm surprized at some of you guy's comments.

This would be a fight that nobody could really predict. There's just too many variables you would have to consider. The main variable being would Sugar Ray run or go toe-to-toe. Or will Pryor come at Ray or try to outbox him. You just never know. If I had to make an educated guess considering Sugar Ray's past fights I'd have to say he would run around the ring and try to steal rounds with flurries. It would be on Pryor's shoulders to chase him around and prevent this. If he can keep up that I would give him a late-round TKO or possibly a decision. Pryor called Sugar Ray out in front of everybody and it would have been a big money fight. There must be some reason he didn't want to fight him. Maybe he remembered those sparring sessions and while Sugar Ray might not have been sparring like it was a real fight, who's to say Pryor was being all serious
either.

Why couldn't you predict who whould win this fight? You just just pick one guy or the other, it's not that hard. Actually, if you look at Ray's history at welterweight, Ray went toe-to-toe with the smaller guys he faced like Duran and Benitez, instead of moving and boxing , or "run" as you said (which worked well against slow ploders but whouldn't work against Pryor because he had good speed and was very aggressive a la Frazier vs Ali).

Pryor, having somthing to proove like in the Arguello fight, whould go all out just as he was known for doing. I don't think he would try to outbox Leonard, he whould try and crowd him with endless punches. The fight whould've turned out to be an all out war, with Leonard getting the better because of his size, power and overall speed.

Why couldn't you predict who whould win this fight? You just just pick one guy or the other, it's not that hard. Accually, if you look at Ray's history at welterweight, Ray went toe-to-toe with the smaller guys he faced like Duran and Benitez, instead of moving and boxing, or "run" as you said.

Pryor, having somthing to proove like in the Arguello fight, whould go all out just as he was known for doing. I don't think he would try to outbox Leonard, he whould try and crowd him with punches. The fight whould've turned out to be an all out war, with Leonard getting the better with his size, power and overall speed.

Maybe you didn't read all of my post. I predicted Pryor would win if he could keep up with Leanord's foot movement. I also don't predict fights based on size, especially at lower weight classes. I don't know what Pryor you have watched, but to say Sugar Ray's power is superior is just speculation. He may have hurt Hearns, but Hearns couldn't take much of a punch or else his legs went to oatmeal.

Size is usually the, or one of the main factors when predicting the outcome of a fight. You take away the size factor and it's very hard predicting fights. For example a heavyweight should have no problem with a flyweight. In boxing any advantage in size or weight matters, especially in the lower weight divisions, so your logic is kind of backwards.

I think what made leonard more powerful than Pryor was his sharpness and accuracy. Pryor wasn't really accurate, but he did throw punches from all angles and had power at 140.

Size is usually the, or one of the main factors when predicting the outcome of a fight. You take away the size factor and it's very hard predicting fights. For example a heavyweight should have no problem with a flyweight. In boxing any advantage in size or weight matters, especially in the lower weight divisions, so your logic is kind of backwards.

I think what made leonard more powerful than Pryor was his sharpness and accuracy. Pryor wasn't really accurate, but he did throw punches from all angles and had power at 140.

Size does matter, I'm not debating that. But to say that it is a significant basis for prediction is inaccurate. If size mattered that much, Leonard would have lost to Hearns and Hagler according to your "logic". Also look at Duran: He was undersized most of his fights being he is a natural lightweight and he still kicked ass. My point was more geared towards heavyweights in that a fighter like Vitali Klitchsko would be easier to judge in a fight based on his size. He is too big basically for any heavyweight and this gives him an immediate advantage. Fighters at lower weight classes tend to rely more on their skills and not their size. Although Sugar Ray had more boxing skills than Pryor, it is purely speculative as to who had more power. All I know is that Ray refused his challenge for some reason, called his ass out in front of everyone and the look on Ray's face said "I don't want any part of this ****er".

Leonard would not lose by ko. In fact I think he pulls out a decision because like the above posts said, the Hitman was one of the most lethal punchers pound for pound of any generation and if Leonard can escape that and also beat Hagler who waged one of the most action packed wars with Hearns, he will definately survive Pryor and outbox him.

"Size does matter, I'm not debating that. But to say that it is a significant basis for prediction is inaccurate. If size mattered that much, Leonard would have lost to Hearns and Hagler according to your "logic". Also look at Duran: He was undersized most of his fights being he is a natural lightweight and he still kicked ass. My point was more geared towards heavyweights in that a fighter like Vitali Klitchsko would be easier to judge in a fight based on his size. He is too big basically for any heavyweight and this gives him an immediate advantage. Fighters at lower weight classes tend to rely more on their skills and not their size. Although Sugar Ray had more boxing skills than Pryor, it is purely speculative as to who had more power. All I know is that Ray refused his challenge for some reason, called his ass out in front of everyone and the look on Ray's face said "I don't want any part of this ****er"."

When I say "size" I mean height and weight together. Hearns had the height and reach advantage and that's why he mounted such a huge lead on the scorecards. However, Leonard had a 2 pound weight advantage, his punches were more solid on that night enabling him to walk Hearns down in the later rounds and get the TKO. Hagler was a natural middleweight (Leonard wasn't) and the harder puncher, so Leonard used the punch and move style. See Ray was very versatile and changed his style often depending on the fighter; and he whould've been ready for Aaron Pryor. His power, size and speed advantages whould've translated into a victory.

Back to what I was saying. In the lower divisions, 2 inches in height/reach and a 5-7 pound weight advantage is huge, as aposed to heavyweight where that amount doesn't matter quite as much. While size matters in every divisions, it matters more in the lower weight classifications. That's why the Tale of the Tape matters so much.

If we're both talking about the same press confrence, Aaron Pryor tried calling Ray out and Ray calmly told him to "step off" and kept the confrence moving. I don't know, to me it just looked like he thought Pryor wasn't on his level.

And I never said whoever's the biggest wins. What I was saying was size is one of the main factors you look at when determining who has the better style match-up.

Ray Leonard would have knocked Alexis Arguello out within three rounds.
Pryor needed 14 rds, & then 10 rounds, to turn the trick(s).

I guess Pryor could have outboxed Ray Leonard ? Not on this planet.

As for Ray avoiding Pryor ? LMAO !

Ray Leonard fought Tommy Hearns & Marvin Hagler.....but was afraid of PRYOR ?

I seriously think most of you are getting your **** second-handed. Those who were following boxing during that time period......know you youngins have bought into a MYTH that just sounds really good today.

Did you guys see Pryor struggling with the likes of Miguel Montilla, DuJuan Johnson, Akio Kameda, Nick Furlano, Gary Hinton ?

Ray Leonard would have knocked them all out in two rounds, all in the same night.


FINALLY!
Someone who was actually around during those days & watched the fighters we're discussing with an obviously educated eye.
I don't know where some of these folks have come from who have posted in this thread, but it's terribly obvious that they were either still filling their shorts while Pryor & Leaonard were fighting or ( even more likely ) not even born yet. Because, quite frankly, the majority of them just don't have a bloody clue!

Ray Leonard would have demolished Aaron Pryor.
Tell me ONE foe that Pryor faced who was on Leonard's level ?
Don't give me Arguello, either. Arguello was at his best at 130, in the late 70's.
Pryor struggled like hell with the smaller, slower Arguello. Believe me, Ray Leonard's 147 lb. punches would have inflicted far more damage than Arguello's 140lbers would have.
Lb 4 lb., Arguello was a much bigger hitter than Leonard.....but we're talking about a significant size difference.

Pryor's style would have played right into the hands of Ray.....Always off-balance, susceptible to getting dropped (see Akio Kameda, DuJuan Johnson, Cervantes).....& vulnerable to body shots....
Pryor was too small & flawed to hang with Ray Leonard.

No offense to Pryor, who was a terrific fighter. But Ray was bigger, & just plain better.


Again, right on the money.

As I said in my earlier post regarding this match up, Pryor was a fabulous fighter. An all time great. Perhaps THE top man at 140 lbs ever. But, as a natural 135 lb fighter, there's just no way that hangs with, much less beats Ray Leonard.
And I don't want anyone bringing up Duran as an example of another "natural lightweight" beating Leonard. Duran always struggled to make 135 & was in fact a natural welter who killed himself to get down to lightweight.
Take my word for it as I'm met both men on numerous occasions over the years, Duran has a much larger frame than Pryor does. He's physically a bigger man. That's why he was able to hang with Leonard for three fights while Pryor would not have been able to.
That & his chin. Duran had an all time great chin. A fantastic chin that really only failed him once & that was against P4P one of the VERY best punchers ever in Thomas Hearns ( I'll not count the TKO3 to William Joppy because Duran was a grandfather by then . Whereas, though a terrific fighter, Pryor did NOT possess a great chin. It wasn't bad, but it was vulnerable. The first round spills against both Antonio Cervantes & Akio Kameda aren't so much proof of this, but more so his very rocky moments against Dujaun Johnson who dropped him & had him in serious trouble before Pryor came back to KO him.
Johnson was a big light welterweight who probably was closer to a natural welter in all honesty & he troubled Pryor greatly with his punch & superior strength. And, while Johnson was good, he wasn't anywhere even remotely near Leonard in ANY category.
I'm telling you, a Leonard - Pryor match would have greatly resembled the Terry Norris KO of the outsized, outgunned Meldrick Taylor.

Ya man, that was the stupidest thing i've EVER heard from someone


When has Sugar Ray ever knocked out a decent fighter in 3....

Aaron Pryor, a fighter that took Arguellos best shot and didnt even feel em....is gonna get knocked out by Sugar Ray?? How? cuz sugar ray runs the whole fight? Pryor will come blasting out of his corner and try n put u down, Hagler was big and a middleweight and he was slower, but Pryors got 10 times the speed of Hagler

I predect a Aaron Pryor knockout...


Ray could knock Aaron out.He's on another level than Aaron was.And if guys like Kameda was flooring him, Ray would own him,repeat OWN him.

Ray Leonard would have demolished Aaron Pryor.
Tell me ONE foe that Pryor faced who was on Leonard's level ?
Don't give me Arguello, either. Arguello was at his best at 130, in the late 70's.
Pryor struggled like hell with the smaller, slower Arguello. Believe me, Ray Leonard's 147 lb. punches would have inflicted far more damage than Arguello's 140lbers would have.
Lb 4 lb., Arguello was a much bigger hitter than Leonard.....but we're talking about a significant size difference.

Pryor's style would have played right into the hands of Ray.....Always off-balance, susceptible to getting dropped (see Akio Kameda, DuJuan Johnson, Cervantes).....& vulnerable to body shots....
Pryor was too small & flawed to hang with Ray Leonard.

No offense to Pryor, who was a terrific fighter. But Ray was bigger, & just plain better.

Damn man where the hell u been all this time

Whether Pryor would have knocked him out or Leonard won by decision, all I know is Pryor wanted the fight bad and Leonard didnt want no part of it. Personally, I lost some respect for Leonard after I saw the clip of one of his press confrences in the Pryor-Aguello Legendary Nights. If a legit contender in Pryor went out of his way to respectively challenge Leonard in public,and Leonard still totally blew him off.....if youre a true champ the only explanation in my opinion is Leonard was duckin. I pick a Pryor KO in one of the early-late rounds, KO is the only way Pryor would have won. Though I defintley dont count out a Leonard KO or decision.

Leonard was always very vain, and a jerk. But a very talented one at that.

It just doesn't make sense to say Leonard avoided Pryor, but fought Benetiez, Duran, Hearns, and Hagler. He probably could have fought Pryor, but in light of his resume its hardly fair
to call Leonard a fight ducker.

Pryor may have wanted the fight, but he didn't force it by fighting at Welterweight to create the demand.

Further to that, how do you think he'd have done vs:

A) Duran
B) Hearns
c) Benetiez

If Pryor had stepped up and convincingly beat one of those guys, he may have forced the fight.

But the fact remains, he fought his whole (brilliant) prime at 140.

Whether Pryor would have knocked him out or Leonard won by decision, all I know is Pryor wanted the fight bad and Leonard didnt want no part of it. Personally, I lost some respect for Leonard after I saw the clip of one of his press confrences in the Pryor-Aguello Legendary Nights. If a legit contender in Pryor went out of his way to respectively challenge Leonard in public,and Leonard still totally blew him off.....if youre a true champ the only explanation in my opinion is Leonard was duckin. I pick a Pryor KO in one of the early-late rounds, KO is the only way Pryor would have won. Though I defintley dont count out a Leonard KO or decision.

How in the **** could Leonard have been ducking Pryor when by the time Pryor had done something significant enough to make the fight attractive ( i. e. his KO of Arguello ) Leonard was retired due to his detatched retina?!!
Please, before making TOTALLY unfounded accusations, do a little research & pay attention to the timelines involved. :rolleyes:

Pretty sure the Ring mag did a mythical matchup with these two guys, years ago. All had Leonard KO'ing Pryor I think.

First off Pryor would not get knocked out by sugar forget that. His chin has made of granite and knocking out Hearns does not prove he could knock out Pryor. Also many people who were close to sugar and Pryor said when they had sparring matches it often turned into a slug fest and a real fight and according to those in close, even rays management team Pryor beat his ass all over the place. Now does this mean in a "real fight" pryor would win, no but he would give sugar hell of a time. Pryor also beat the hell out of Hearns in the amateurs and was brought in once to spar with him but it turned ugly and Pryor was removed from Hearns camp. I say Pryor by late Ko or Sugar by descion

First off Pryor would not get knocked out by sugar forget that. His chin has made of granite and knocking out Hearns does not prove he could knock out Pryor. Also many people who were close to sugar and Pryor said when they had sparring matches it often turned into a slug fest and a real fight and according to those in close, even rays management team Pryor beat his ass all over the place. Now does this mean in a "real fight" pryor would win, no but he would give sugar hell of a time. Pryor also beat the hell out of Hearns in the amateurs and was brought in once to spar with him but it turned ugly and Pryor was removed from Hearns camp. I say Pryor by late Ko or Sugar by descion

Hearns and Pryor are both my favorite fighters as well...

but Pryor beatin up Hearns in the amateurs had nothin to do with the pros...

Hearns was not the devastating machine that he was as a pro in the amateurs, Hearns hardly ever scored any knockouts, when he went pro, that all changed...

I think Pryor could beat Leonard but doubt he can beat Hearns cuz Hearns was just a way bigger guy

First off Pryor would not get knocked out by sugar forget that. His chin has made of granite and knocking out Hearns does not prove he could knock out Pryor. Also many people who were close to sugar and Pryor said when they had sparring matches it often turned into a slug fest and a real fight and according to those in close, even rays management team Pryor beat his ass all over the place. Now does this mean in a "real fight" pryor would win, no but he would give sugar hell of a time. Pryor also beat the hell out of Hearns in the amateurs and was brought in once to spar with him but it turned ugly and Pryor was removed from Hearns camp. I say Pryor by late Ko or Sugar by descion

Not to be rude dude, but you just don't have a clue.

First of all, as great as he was, the one thing that WASN'T great about Pryor was his chin. He was dropped & hurt many times during his career. True, he came back on those occasions ( not counting the Bobby Joe Young fight that is ) to win, but then, he never faced a bigger, stronger, finisher like Ray Leonard.

Sparring is sparring is sparring. Nuff said.

When Pryor beat Thomas Hearns it was at 132 lbs. Hearns was a rail thin kid who could box beatifully, but hadn't yet developed any sort of physical strength or punch yet.

First off Pryor would not get knocked out by sugar forget that. His chin has made of granite and knocking out Hearns does not prove he could knock out Pryor.

If a contender could knock Pryor down, his chin wasn't granite. You'd think a much bigger, harder punching Leonard would have Pryor in trouble.

If a contender could knock Pryor down, his chin wasn't granite. You'd think a much bigger, harder punching Leonard would have Pryor in trouble.
Pryor was never hurt when he went down though...
If your gonna say it like that then, PRYOR KNOCKED DOWN LEONARD with sparring gloves n headgear..

Relax, man.

And usually when Pryor went down he bounced right back up and was smiling so that is bull****.

Relax, man.
Hey man, didnt mean anything sorry if u got the feeling
It's just for other ppl in general all say a fighter has a glass chin cuz they get knocked down once etc. lol

And usually when Pryor went down he bounced right back up and was smiling so that is bull****.

I am totally impartial to this discussion. I couldn't care less who would have won between these two. Just making an observation.

just to chime in....PRYOR would have busted up Leonard!!!! from pillar to post....Leonard in the amateurs moved up in weight to avoid fighting Pryor, and if you have seen any of Pryors amateur fights or even his sparring, his style and aggression never changed, ever!! he was full force all the time, and no one wanted anything to do with him. casue even if anyone was to beat him, it wasn't going to be easy, it would take some years off their life, and would have been painful...Pryors only loss was after a 3 year layoff filled with personal and drug problems, and he was knocked down with a elbow to the temple....he got up quick and then took a knee and the ref waived it off...he could have made it and won and gone undefeated, but it didn't happen. but he would have still beat Leonard and Hearns easily.... the man was denied due to circumstance and that played a major role in his career, in him not getting big fights with big names...sad but true....everything now is speculation, but anyone who watches his fights and knows boxing, knows that Pryor was one of the best ever to lace up the gloves.......also there wont be another fighter like Pryor in a long long time......there just aren't fighters like that anymore....most of the fighters today are converts from other sports who think cause they are athletic they can fight.......fighter are born....not made!!!! the Hawk was a true fighter!!!! a dying breed!!! damn near untouchable as far as i'm concerned!!

just to chime in....PRYOR would have busted up Leonard!!!! from pillar to post....Leonard in the amateurs moved up in weight to avoid fighting Pryor, and if you have seen any of Pryors amateur fights or even his sparring, his style and aggression never changed, ever!! he was full force all the time, and no one wanted anything to do with him. casue even if anyone was to beat him, it wasn't going to be easy, it would take some years off their life, and would have been painful...Pryors only loss was after a 3 year layoff filled with personal and drug problems, and he was knocked down with a elbow to the temple....he got up quick and then took a knee and the ref waived it off...he could have made it and won and gone undefeated, but it didn't happen. but he would have still beat Leonard and Hearns easily.... the man was denied due to circumstance and that played a major role in his career, in him not getting big fights with big names...sad but true....everything now is speculation, but anyone who watches his fights and knows boxing, knows that Pryor was one of the best ever to lace up the gloves.......also there wont be another fighter like Pryor in a long long time......there just aren't fighters like that anymore....most of the fighters today are converts from other sports who think cause they are athletic they can fight.......fighter are born....not made!!!! the Hawk was a true fighter!!!! a dying breed!!! damn near untouchable as far as i'm concerned!!


Took Pryor 14 rounds, & a lot of hell, to KO Arguello.

Arguello was NEVER as good a fighter as Ray Leonard, no matter what you'd like to believe.
He was also quite past his prime, in his age & his weight, when he fought Pryor.

Put it this way.....If Arguello's true prime was 140.....if that's where he peaked time & size-wise....he'd have KILLED Pryor. Yes, killed him.

Took Pryor 14 rounds, & a lot of hell, to KO Arguello.

Arguello was NEVER as good a fighter as Ray Leonard, no matter what you'd like to believe.
He was also quite past his prime, in his age & his weight, when he fought Pryor.

Put it this way.....If Arguello's true prime was 140.....if that's where he peaked time & size-wise....he'd have KILLED Pryor. Yes, killed him.

Arguello's prime was well below 140 and the 1980's.

Arguello's prime was well below 140 and the 1980's.


Exactly my point.

& what I'm getting at....is this guy (Pryor), who's biggest win was over this past-his-best great (Arguello), is supposed to GO UP in weight & KO one of the best fighters of all time ? Absurd.

Ray Leonard would have knocked Alexis Arguello out within three rounds.
Pryor needed 14 rds, & then 10 rounds, to turn the trick(s).

I guess Pryor could have outboxed Ray Leonard ? Not on this planet.

As for Ray avoiding Pryor ? LMAO !

Ray Leonard fought Tommy Hearns & Marvin Hagler.....but was afraid of PRYOR ?

I seriously think most of you are getting your **** second-handed. Those who were following boxing during that time period......know you youngins have bought into a MYTH that just sounds really good today.

Did you guys see Pryor struggling with the likes of Miguel Montilla, DuJuan Johnson, Akio Kameda, Nick Furlano, Gary Hinton ?

Ray Leonard would have knocked them all out in two rounds, all in the same night.


My thoughts exactly...

He'll fight Hagler but is too scared to fight Pryor? hmmm...

Any form of Hagler is scarier than Pryor...Ray would have beaten Pryor quite soundly.

I see there are some good points for Leonard but i still say Pryor would catch him.

I see there are some good points for Leonard but i still say Pryor would catch him.


Pryor never was a one-punch KO artist at 140.....but he'd take out ray Leonard at 147 ?
Hearns, Hagler, Duran, & Terry Norris couldn't KO Leonard....but the 140 lb Pryor could ?
I must say....sounds like Aaron Pryor is the single greatest fighter who has ever lived.

Pryor never was a one-punch KO artist at 140.....but he'd take out ray Leonard at 147 ?
Hearns, Hagler, Duran, & Terry Norris couldn't KO Leonard....but the 140 lb Pryor could ?
I must say....sounds like Aaron Pryor is the single greatest fighter who has ever lived.
none of those guys had the same punch output as Pryor, and his abillity to take a punch would make other fighters weary of their power. the man was not intimidated by anyone, and wore out everyone. and like i said, that even if someone were to beat him it wasn't going to be easy and i'm damn sure they wouldn't want a rematch, do to the fact that, even a win would (physically) feel like a loss.....either way we could argue till the cows came home..... i think he was one of the greatest fighters ever...not the single greatest fighter ever.... the deuce has dropped.....ker splat!

I must say, these rabid Pryor fans that are coming out of the woodwork are begining to sound downright delusional. They are honestly incapable of reason on this subject.
No matter what facts are thrown at them they respond with generalized bull**** or baseless accusations in counterpoint.
Case in point, this nonsense about Leonard moving up in weight to avoid Pryor as an amateur. :rolleyes: Nonsense. Leonard may have competed at 132 at some point early in his amateur career, but his plethoa of titles & honors in the Golden Gloves, the AAU Nationals, International competetion & the Olympics all came at 139 lbs.
DAMN, that's a helluva lot of accomplishments supposedly done just to avoid one fighter! :p

If, infact, Pryor was so fearsome that a win over Leonard was a "sure thing", then why didn't he compete at 139 & try for Leonard's spot at the Olympic trials?
Instead, he remained at his natural weight & met & was beaten by Howard Davis Jr.. A smaller fighter than Ray Leonard who was physically not nearly as strong, had little power & possessed a dodgey chin. Yet he still managed to beat Pryor. Yet, Leonard wouldn't have had a chance against him? :rolleyes:

Onto the pros...
I never said that Pryor's chin was rubbish.
And, yes , a couple of his knockdowns ( Cervantes & Akio Kameda particularly ) were of the flash variety & he wasn't hurt by them. But, once again , Dujaun Johnson DID hurt him. And there were other occasions in which Pryor wasn't dropped, but was rocked or stunned.

pryor tko in 13, with 2 of the 3 scorecards in leonards favor, pryor comes out swinging and takes 5 of the first 6, leonard comes on from rounds 7 thru 11, pryor wears him down in the 12th and finishes him in the 13th

We're talking about Ray Leonard here...who had one of the greatest chins, stamina and durability levels, and all around skill sets as a NATURAL welterweight...against Pryor, a great 140 pounder who had life and death struggles with a past his prime Arguello. Theres no way in hell that Pryor wears out Ray and then KO's him. If Hearns couldn't KO him then Pryor couldn't, and I'm actually going to use that broken logic because the entire argument is just kind of assenine.

I can't believe that "Pryor by a KO/TKO" has garnered the most votes amongst all those options given. Listen, back then I disliked Leonard as much as anybody did, but some people on here really need to get a ****ing clue.

Ridiculous!

Again, I'll wager that the vast majority of those posting on this thread & touting such outcomes in Pryor's favor have never even seen him fight live on the telly.
Some of them weren't even out of their nappies yet when he was fighting. :rolleyes:

^I think most of them saw him on Legendary Nights and bought into those hyped up clips of him fighting Arguello and thinks that he could move up and also do the man often called the best fighter of the 80's the same way. I think they're sadly mistaken to think that. If any of them saw actual full fights of his, they whould know that he has flaws that whould be much easier to exploit at 147.

This would of been a great fight. Pryor was relentless. But Ray could outbox half the country. He was very smart.

Leonard is naturally bigger and better in just about every category outside of workrate. Leonard would take a fairly easy 15 round decision. Pryor would have a few nice moments and would press Ray the whole way but Leonard is just too much for him at 147.

I'll agree Ray was naturally bigger, but he was no stronger or faster. Although Ray had a good chin, was durable and had great stamina, these attributes were also in Pryor's arsenal.

Both men sparred together for a year and dropped each other in an early sparring session. After the initial KD's neither was ever knocked down again. So, a KO wouldn't be as likely as one might think. I read when they sparred, Pryor was fast enough to counter as Ray jabbed or threw a right, breaking up Ray's combinations.

If pryor could control Ray's jab that would probably be a key factor in the fight. The other would be how well Pryor cut off the ring and limited Rays lateral movement.

Of the five Hall of Famers who boxed at 147 during this 'Golden' era: Leonard, Hearns, Duran, Benitez and Cuevas. I think Ray would be the hardest match-up with Pryor. I'd say Ray wins by decision 3 out of 5 times, followed by Benitez 50/50, Duran 2 of 5, Hearns 1 of 5 and Cuevas would never win. But, I think at lightweight Duran would be at least 50/50 or 3 of 5.

Ray Leonard would have knocked Alexis Arguello out within three rounds.
Pryor needed 14 rds, & then 10 rounds, to turn the trick(s).

I guess Pryor could have outboxed Ray Leonard ? Not on this planet.

As for Ray avoiding Pryor ? LMAO !

Ray Leonard fought Tommy Hearns & Marvin Hagler.....but was afraid of PRYOR ?

I seriously think most of you are getting your **** second-handed. Those who were following boxing during that time period......know you youngins have bought into a MYTH that just sounds really good today.

Did you guys see Pryor struggling with the likes of Miguel Montilla, DuJuan Johnson, Akio Kameda, Nick Furlano, Gary Hinton ?

Ray Leonard would have knocked them all out in two rounds, all in the same night.

I was watching back in the eighties and late seventies.

Ray Leonard only had a 62% KO rating, which isn't bad but it's not great. Pryor on the other hand had an 89.7 which ranks him number one of anyone whoever won a championship. Rocky marciano being second with 87.75. His entire career he only had four 1st or 2nd round KO's and after he got his first belt he went at least ten rounds 7 of 15 fights, and his nine KO's took 81 rounds or on average they happened in the ninth round. And that's with people like Dave Green, Larry Bonds, Bruce Finch, Kevin Howard, and Donny Lalonde thrown in the mix. So, the second round predictions are hopeful at best.

You mentioned Pryor had hard fights with Miguel Montilla, DuJuan Johnson, Akio Kameda, Nick Furlano, Gary Hinton.

He KOed Montilla, Kameda and Johnson and the Johnson fight was voted fight of the year by Ring magizine. Also all three were the #1 contender at the time as was Blackmore before them and then he fought Arguello twice with a tune up in between. No champions in any weight fight the number one guy six of seven fights in a row.

As for Furlano and Hinton both were fights after he retired and he was a crack addict at the time AND he fought every fight after Arguello II blind in one eye from a detatched retina.

Why use fights after he was washed up, half blind and a crack addict. That's like saying Ray Leonard couldn't beat Pryor because he drew (actually lost) to an old Hearns, lost to Terry Norris and was KOed by an old Camacho.

Both fighters were great. Both struggled in fights maybe they shouldn't have and both fought about four or five fights more than they should have.

Size is usually the, or one of the main factors when predicting the outcome of a fight. You take away the size factor and it's very hard predicting fights. For example a heavyweight should have no problem with a flyweight. In boxing any advantage in size or weight matters, especially in the lower weight divisions, so your logic is kind of backwards.

I think what made leonard more powerful than Pryor was his sharpness and accuracy. Pryor wasn't really accurate, but he did throw punches from all angles and had power at 140.


I agree a 105lb man should generally lose to a 200 lb man as in your fly/heavy analogy. What size advantage would Ray have if both men were 147 lbs? What he was taller? Being short never stopped Frazier or Tyson or a myriad of other fighters and being tall didn't saved Marc Breland or Bonecrusher Smith. Size within the same weight class doesn't matter. Hearns was taller than everyone that beat him.

Ray was no stronger. Ray was never known to be a heavy hitter and was not a KO artist. As for Ray being faster with his hands. No, he was not faster, both men were extremely fast.

The whole fight would come down to style and controlling the ring.

A great fight that could have gone either way. But I would have to go with Leonard on this fight. It's so hard to pick against him during his prime. A close UD - these two guys were good enough to seriously mess up each others carriers for good after fighting each other. I'm sure if they did fight it would've been a classic.