View Full Version : Boxers who never did weights/pushups?


Sugarr
12-12-2009, 03:33 PM
Can you name me some great boxers who didn't lift any weights or even did any push-ups?

I can't give green k, but I'd appreciate your help.

So far, the only boxers I know who don't are Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray Leonard.

sonnyboyx2
12-12-2009, 04:07 PM
Ron Lyle would do 1000 push-ups an hour while in prison - Lyle was a `Beast`

Sugarr
12-12-2009, 04:11 PM
Ron Lyle would do 1000 push-ups an hour while in prison - Lyle was a `Beast`

Thanks, but the opposite of what I was looking for.

talip bin osman
12-12-2009, 08:07 PM
i dunno man...

james toney?

i think all he does is eat...:lew:

project xxx1
12-12-2009, 08:10 PM
i dunno man...

james toney?

i think all he does is eat...:lew:
lol thats a good one

them_apples
12-14-2009, 04:20 PM
Can you name me some great boxers who didn't lift any weights or even did any push-ups?

I can't give green k, but I'd appreciate your help.

So far, the only boxers I know who don't are Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray Leonard.

they all did some sort of resistance training though. They probably chopped wood for hours which can build lots of strength.

them_apples
12-14-2009, 04:22 PM
Ron Lyle would do 1000 push-ups an hour while in prison - Lyle was a `Beast`

I heard he did about 500. I guess in an hour though 1000 is feasable.

Margarito looks like he doesn't do many weights.

mickey malone
12-14-2009, 04:56 PM
There's plenty of fighters that never used weights, and probably just as many that were too fat for pushups, but as for doing neither, i'd hazard a guess at 'two ton' Tony Galento who virtually trained on spaghetti & beer..
Good old Henry Cooper never picked up a weight in his life, and still can't understand why they're used in boxing gyms.. TBH, I agree with him.. Push ups are essential but weights, in my opinion slow a fighter down..

RightCross94
12-14-2009, 05:44 PM
There's plenty of fighters that never used weights, and probably just as many that were too fat for pushups, but as for doing neither, i'd hazard a guess at 'two ton' Tony Galento who virtually trained on spaghetti & beer..
Good old Henry Cooper never picked up a weight in his life, and still can't understand why they're used in boxing gyms.. TBH, I agree with him.. Push ups are essential but weights, in my opinion slow a fighter down..

You are a really good poster but that is a really outdated misconception. Virtually all the top fighters today train with weights, and if you use them properly, which means training for strength instead of training to gain size, there will be no speed losses.

Manny Pacquiao who as we all know is among the fastest fighters in the game today, uses weights.

And to be honest, I think the fact that most fighters today use weights whereas most fighters 50 or 60 years ago didn't might have been the difference in a lot of fantasy matchups between similary skiled fighters. Put two fighters in the ring with similar skill levels and attributes, and give one the benefit of state of the art strength training with weights etc, and leave one with only calisthenics to build strength, it would be the difference. I don't know how many of you have ever fought for real but if you are evenly matched with skills, speed etc and your opponent is just that bit physically stronger, often a rough night.

Marcov
12-14-2009, 05:51 PM
Howard Davis Jr.

Sugarr
12-14-2009, 05:54 PM
You are a really good poster but that is a really outdated misconception. Virtually all the top fighters today train with weights, and if you use them properly, which means training for strength instead of training to gain size, there will be no speed losses.

Manny Pacquiao who as we all know is among the fastest fighters in the game today, uses weights.

And to be honest, I think the fact that most fighters today use weights whereas most fighters 50 or 60 years ago didn't might have been the difference in a lot of fantasy matchups between similary skiled fighters. Put two fighters in the ring with similar skill levels and attributes, and give one the benefit of state of the art strength training with weights etc, and leave one with only calisthenics to build strength, it would be the difference. I don't know how many of you have ever fought for real but if you are evenly matched with skills, speed etc and your opponent is just that bit physically stronger, often a rough night.

Are you sure about that? The only weights I've seen him use are the small ones for some sort of shadowboxing.

Personally, I feel that weights slow me down and I perform much better without them. As for push-ups, I'm sort of on the fence about it.

RightCross94
12-14-2009, 06:02 PM
Are you sure about that? The only weights I've seen him use are the small ones for some sort of shadowboxing.

Personally, I feel that weights slow me down and I perform much better without them. As for push-ups, I'm sort of on the fence about it.

Pacquiao has probably the most knowledgeable conditioning coach in boxing, he uses weights dude, I've heard Ariza talk about it in interviews. How do you think Manny has gone up from 130 to 147 with minimal bodyfat?


Weights don't slow you down, all the top fighters use them. That's the bottom line.

And if you are an adult fighting as an amateur and you want to step up and fight good experienced fighters, you won't want to be giving your opponents (who will be damn good) a strength advantage because they use weights and you don't.

Sugarr
12-14-2009, 06:07 PM
Pacquiao has probably the most knowledgeable conditioning coach in boxing, he uses weights dude, I've heard Ariza talk about it in interviews. How do you think Manny has gone up from 130 to 147 with minimal bodyfat?

If you say so. I don't know his training routine.

Weights don't slow you down, all the top fighters use them. That's the bottom line.

And if you are an adult fighting as an amateur and you want to step up and fight good experienced fighters, you won't want to be giving your opponents (who will be damn good) a strength advantage because they use weights and you don't.

When I first started boxing I was using weights. Eventually, I stopped and found myself to be much faster and actually have better stamina. Maybe that's just me, though. Plus, I didn't use heavy weights. Just like some 10 pound dumbbells working the shoulders, chest and back muscles.

them_apples
12-14-2009, 09:43 PM
Pacquiao has probably the most knowledgeable conditioning coach in boxing, he uses weights dude, I've heard Ariza talk about it in interviews. How do you think Manny has gone up from 130 to 147 with minimal bodyfat?


Weights don't slow you down, all the top fighters use them. That's the bottom line.

And if you are an adult fighting as an amateur and you want to step up and fight good experienced fighters, you won't want to be giving your opponents (who will be damn good) a strength advantage because they use weights and you don't.

Manny uses light weights that he can push at a high speed. He uses medacine balls, hammer & tire etc, Manny doesn't do normal weights.

them_apples
12-14-2009, 09:47 PM
lifting weights to put on size will slow a fighter down.

If you can lift weights and stay in your intended weight class then it's not all bad. Light weights to add resistance for a hard cardio routine are great for boxing.

A lot of people want to lift weights to look good, but in boxing, you need to do a certain type. Weight lifting always slowed me down, but I liked squats, shadowing with dumbells, pull ups, fast push ups and light weight presses that I could push up at a high speed.

Whenever I bulked and swelled I lost speed.

Most athletes do a certain type of weight routine. Even sprinters who are fast but have terrible stamina, don't just "press heavyweights to put on size" The only people that do that are MMA fighters and it's to cater to it's WWE fanbase.

Whatever works though.

RightCross94
12-15-2009, 12:35 AM
Manny uses light weights that he can push at a high speed. He uses medacine balls, hammer & tire etc, Manny doesn't do normal weights.


He definitely does different types of strength training which includes weights. He also takes lots of different supplements.

And he has definitely used weights to put on size recently, look how much thicker he is with cotto compared to this photo

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport/files/2009/10/manny_pacquiao1.jpg

http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Manny+Pacquiao+v+Miguel+Cotto+Weigh+KtL16T0vi9_l.j pg

them_apples
12-15-2009, 12:50 AM
He definitely does different types of strength training which includes weights. He also takes lots of different supplements.

And he has definitely used weights to put on size recently, look how much thicker he is with cotto compared to this photo

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport/files/2009/10/manny_pacquiao1.jpg

http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Manny+Pacquiao+v+Miguel+Cotto+Weigh+KtL16T0vi9_l.j pg

no, he's probably doing the same thing, only they noted he has grown naturally and was eating 7000 calories a day.

Spartacus Sully
12-15-2009, 12:52 AM
He definitely does different types of strength training which includes weights. He also takes lots of different supplements.

And he has definitely used weights to put on size recently, look how much thicker he is with cotto compared to this photo


well seems he didnt lift weights for hatton atleast.

And as for the way he gets himself into shape, Pacquiao said it's both simple and grueling: "Run in the morning, do about 2,000 sit-ups, then go to the gym around 1, then do another 2,000 sit-ups, and then rest," Pacquiao said, adding, "I don't lift weights at all."

http://boxing.fanhouse.com/2009/05/01/manny-pacquiaos-preparation-roach-moorer-and-4-000-sit-ups-a/

RightCross94
12-15-2009, 01:02 AM
no, he's probably doing the same thing, only they noted he has grown naturally and was eating 7000 calories a day.

yeah well you're right he has grown, but he's definitely done some different weight training or taken a supplement.

RightCross94
12-15-2009, 01:03 AM
well seems he didnt lift weights for hatton atleast.

And as for the way he gets himself into shape, Pacquiao said it's both simple and grueling: "Run in the morning, do about 2,000 sit-ups, then go to the gym around 1, then do another 2,000 sit-ups, and then rest," Pacquiao said, adding, "I don't lift weights at all."

http://boxing.fanhouse.com/2009/05/01/manny-pacquiaos-preparation-roach-moorer-and-4-000-sit-ups-a/

Hmm by "lifting" weights he may mean just straight pumping iron. I've definitely head Ariza talking about the various plyometrics and strength training they do.

them_apples
12-15-2009, 01:04 AM
well seems he didnt lift weights for hatton atleast.

And as for the way he gets himself into shape, Pacquiao said it's both simple and grueling: "Run in the morning, do about 2,000 sit-ups, then go to the gym around 1, then do another 2,000 sit-ups, and then rest," Pacquiao said, adding, "I don't lift weights at all."

http://boxing.fanhouse.com/2009/05/01/manny-pacquiaos-preparation-roach-moorer-and-4-000-sit-ups-a/

yea, boxers do other things for strength.

UFC fighters lift weights, and look how terribly their conditioning is. Boxers don't train to lift a heavy amount of weight in a short period of time. they train to throw fast hard punches for long periods of time.

Spartacus Sully
12-15-2009, 01:23 AM
Hmm by "lifting" weights he may mean just straight pumping iron. I've definitely head Ariza talking about the various plyometrics and strength training they do.

I think by lifting weights he means that he dosnt do it. in a previous interview before Oscar and Manny they had asked him if going up in weight class changed the way he trained and lifted weights.

Michael David Smith: The question is kind of follows up on the last one you answered. But specifically with regards to your weight does it change your training much? And if so, how that you***8217;re going to be significantly heavier for this fight than you***8217;ve ever been before.

Does that mean - does it change your diet? Does it change things like lifting weights or any other aspect of your training have you changed because you***8217;re moving up in weight class?

Manny Pacquiao: We didn***8217;t change our training. We***8217;re still there and we just apply some exercises for this training to build the muscles. And we have applied some exercise for the fight.

There have been no changes in our training for this training camp but we have applied a lot of techniques and strategies for this fight.

http://www.crapside boxing.com/news.php?p=17987&more=1

he avoids the whole weights part and just says that everything is pretty much the same. i think in the interview before hatton hes trying to make a point that he dosnt lift weights and that its unnecessary if anything.

RightCross94
12-15-2009, 01:43 PM
Hmm well maybe Manny isn't doing standard weights. But my point is many fighters today do and are mostly better for it.

mickey malone
01-10-2010, 03:44 AM
You are a really good poster but that is a really outdated misconception. Virtually all the top fighters today train with weights, and if you use them properly, which means training for strength instead of training to gain size, there will be no speed losses.

Manny Pacquiao who as we all know is among the fastest fighters in the game today, uses weights.

And to be honest, I think the fact that most fighters today use weights whereas most fighters 50 or 60 years ago didn't might have been the difference in a lot of fantasy matchups between similary skiled fighters. Put two fighters in the ring with similar skill levels and attributes, and give one the benefit of state of the art strength training with weights etc, and leave one with only calisthenics to build strength, it would be the difference. I don't know how many of you have ever fought for real but if you are evenly matched with skills, speed etc and your opponent is just that bit physically stronger, often a rough night.
Thanks.. Yes weights are handy, if employed in the right measure..
I've always used weights to train down rather than pump myself up, ie stretching with dumbells to loosen the shoulders, neck, triceps & biceps.. Shadow boxing with 2.5 kilo wrist straps will also increase power and speed, but I just can't see where big weights come into it.. They create muscle bulk that in turn, suck away the oxygen going into the body..

One more round
01-10-2010, 04:04 AM
Thanks.. Yes weights are handy, if employed in the right measure..
I've always used weights to train down rather than pump myself up, ie stretching with dumbells to loosen the shoulders, neck, triceps & biceps.. Shadow boxing with 2.5 kilo wrist straps will also increase power and speed, but I just can't see where big weights come into it.. They create muscle bulk that in turn, suck away the oxygen going into the body..

Doing heavy weights with low reps builds strength, it's not for hypertrophy (muscle gain) Plus to get big muscles, you need to be eating big.

mickey malone
01-10-2010, 11:32 PM
Doing heavy weights with low reps builds strength, it's not for hypertrophy (muscle gain) Plus to get big muscles, you need to be eating big.
Understood, but I can't agree that it will improve your performance as a boxer.. Sure, it's essential for certain MMA disciplines ie grappling, but not the finer arts of the stand up game..
ATG's such as Willie Pep, Sandy Saddler, Nicolino Locche, Jimmy Wilde, Jake LaMotta, Benny Leonard etc, were more interested in movement, timing and plenty of stamina, which is negated by excess power, especially on a smaller frame..
I wouldn't say that history favours those who lifted heavy iron..

One more round
01-11-2010, 02:44 AM
Understood, but I can't agree that it will improve your performance as a boxer.. Sure, it's essential for certain MMA disciplines ie grappling, but not the finer arts of the stand up game..
ATG's such as Willie Pep, Sandy Saddler, Nicolino Locche, Jimmy Wilde, Jake LaMotta, Benny Leonard etc, were more interested in movement, timing and plenty of stamina, which is negated by excess power, especially on a smaller frame..
I wouldn't say that history favours those who lifted heavy iron..

Thst's because no one knew how to use weights properly in that era nor did they use them.

Imagine a guy like Sandy Saddler or LaMotta with 20 or 30% extra strength with proper weight training, the guy would be even more of a beast than he was!

History doesn't favour those who lifted weights...but weights were not used in boxing until 20 odd years ago, like I said, give a guy like LaMotta the benefit of proper boxing specific weight training, the guy would have been even stronger and better at what he did than he was.

Weights should never replace boxing technique, that is the most important, but they can still play a valuable role and give you an advantage if used properly.

mickey malone
01-11-2010, 07:00 AM
Thst's because no one knew how to use weights properly in that era nor did they use them.

Imagine a guy like Sandy Saddler or LaMotta with 20 or 30% extra strength with proper weight training, the guy would be even more of a beast than he was!

History doesn't favour those who lifted weights...but weights were not used in boxing until 20 odd years ago, like I said, give a guy like LaMotta the benefit of proper boxing specific weight training, the guy would have been even stronger and better at what he did than he was.

Weights should never replace boxing technique, that is the most important, but they can still play a valuable role and give you an advantage if used properly.
Properly being minimal, then I agree in total..
But i'd still put movement, isometrics, sparring, pads, bagwork, skipping and running way infront, in terms of priority..
A fighters muscles should be long and 'quick twitch' not compact, so if this can be maintained aswell as improved with the use of heavy weights, then fair enough, but i still say that weight training shouldn't be a major part of any boxers training program..

As a point of interest, do you think LaMotta would have got the better of SRR, had he trained with weights properly?

John Hue
01-11-2010, 08:17 AM
From my observation of pro fighters in gyms I tend to agree with mickey malone. The fitness levels of pro fighters is unbelievable going into a fight or at least serious fighters not bums. You need to rest after a high weight high intensity workout and the next day you are sore and would not be able to do any proper boxing workout. The only time a boxer would do this kind of training is when they have no intention of fighting for a long time and are building dumb muscle that they will educate later. Having built that dumb muscle they will lose a lot of the gains once they start doing boxing training again. I have seen boxers go heavy very rarely and it seems to be squats and deadlifts which are core training exercises rather than arms although they do tricep work. The tricep drives the extensor action but in a good punch the pivot is the boss with tricep adding and real power comes from the flow of energy from the ground up. Bulky tight arms thwart that flow of energy and tricep strength is only added around the point of impact on loaded punches. Arm punchers use tricep only which is no good. I have seen boxers incorporate some light to moderate weight training in their work outs but rarely hard core and never going into a fight. I have seen boxers doing a lot of neck building exercises,this must be to strengthen up for the inevitable shots they will take. The more I think about this I realise the boxers I have seen go heavy tend to be the shorter bull dog type guys than the moderate to rangy build and they tend to be more fighters than pure boxers.

One more round
01-12-2010, 12:12 AM
Properly being minimal, then I agree in total..
But i'd still put movement, isometrics, sparring, pads, bagwork, skipping and running way infront, in terms of priority..
A fighters muscles should be long and 'quick twitch' not compact, so if this can be maintained aswell as improved with the use of heavy weights, then fair enough, but i still say that weight training shouldn't be a major part of any boxers training program..

As a point of interest, do you think LaMotta would have got the better of SRR, had he trained with weights properly?

Well that's a good question. SRR would have always had the length and speed to really give a guy like Jake trouble, but the thing Jake had that troubled Ray was his strength and aggression. I suppose there is a chance that if LaMotta was that bit stronger he would have taken another fight off Ray or least given him that bit more trouble.

mickey malone
01-12-2010, 12:50 AM
Well that's a good question. SRR would have always had the length and speed to really give a guy like Jake trouble, but the thing Jake had that troubled Ray was his strength and aggression. I suppose there is a chance that if LaMotta was that bit stronger he would have taken another fight off Ray or least given him that bit more trouble.
I'd say that's a fair assessment..
Training at the end of the day, is training, & provided your willing to put your body to the peak of it's physical endurance, then you can only be positive..
Modern dieticians would also play a key role, had they been around in LaMotta's day..

{Darko}
01-12-2010, 01:17 AM
Old Time Welterweight Great Tommy "No Arms" Mcgee











































For obvious reasons

http://www.thehorrorzine.com/Morbid/no%20arms%202.jpg

One more round
01-12-2010, 03:28 AM
I'd say that's a fair assessment..
Training at the end of the day, is training, & provided your willing to put your body to the peak of it's physical endurance, then you can only be positive..
Modern dieticians would also play a key role, had they been around in LaMotta's day..

Yeah, agreed.

PowerPlus
12-09-2013, 08:49 PM
Properly being minimal, then I agree in total..
But i'd still put movement, isometrics, sparring, pads, bagwork, skipping and running way infront, in terms of priority..
A fighters muscles should be long and 'quick twitch' not compact, so if this can be maintained aswell as improved with the use of heavy weights, then fair enough, but i still say that weight training shouldn't be a major part of any boxers training program..

As a point of interest, do you think LaMotta would have got the better of SRR, had he trained with weights properly?

Intersting thread here. I just rewatched Raging Bull a few nights ago and was amazed by the incredible Jake Lamotta. I also have done a lot of weight training and worked with athletes. In every case, weight training enhanced athletic ability. Those who were great athletes were better. Those who were not great athletes, perfomed better also.

In LaMatta's case, I think weight training would have helped him. For one, his issue seemed to be holding his weight down. He was a big eater. Since muscle burns fat even at rest, Jake could have ate to his heart content, built more muscle, reduced fat and either stayed as a middleweight or gone up to the next weight class. Think how deadly he may have become with the extra size and power. He would have dominated the lightheavies like he did the middleweights.

As for SRR, in my opinion, JM lost his desire in that last fight. He seemed consumed by personal issues and keeping his title was no longer that significant. Perhaps fighting to hold his weight down was getting old too.

By the way, the proper way for LaMotta to have trained I believe, should have included a good overall bodybuilding program and Olympic style lifting, power snatches, power cleans, clean and jerks, high pulls etc. to build explosiveness. Then perhaps circuit weight training for cardio. And of course the sparring, hitting the speed bag and other training boxers do.

I sincerely believe that weight training would have been much more beneficial than the archaic high repittion 1,000 pushups and situps that the old time boxers used to do.

Anyway, just my opinion based on training other athletes.

Jake LaMotta was an awesome fighter. I think weights could have made him even better.:fest30:

IronDanHamza
12-09-2013, 09:06 PM
Harold Johnson apparently never did any weight lifting.

You'd think someone of his physique would lift weights.

billeau2
12-10-2013, 09:52 AM
The reason modern fitness methods are so good has nothing to do with weight training per se. I can tell you that years ago as a martial artist working with others as a trainer, I used to stress working the core muscle areas....the abs, back, large muscles of the hips/legs, shoulders etc. What we did then and they do now is emphasize effort to stabilize the core muscles. This effort is what actual working strength consists of....In other words, the construction guy lifting heavy bags to his shoulder, he has to lift the bag, then stabilize his body as he puts the load to his shoulder....this is different than simply lifting the bag for maximum load (straight up and back down under controlled circumstances).

Weights is a means to an end....Pilates is also a means to an end, as is isometrics, etc. The use of the big muscles in the core make people more powerful....Calesthenics can be used this way as can extreme strength exerscize in weights....its the goal of the fitness and the ability of the body to incorporate balance and stabilization re-action to an initial movement that creates useful work performed.

Isolated muscle toning under controlled circumstances is what people did before and if you think about it, these exerscizes are not effective to build useful strength. Whether you benchpress 1 pound or 1000 you do not use your chest to lift heavy weight...in grappling you seldom would physically lift a person off of you, rather strength used would be your core muscles when applying techniqhe. This is the difference.

For example: When I work on a chest exerscize I take a relatively heavy set of barbells and I arch my back. I then have to hold my position with my abs, as I support the lift from my chest. Instead of building chest muscles in isolation the main goal of this exerscize is to build te back mscles (arching) the ab muscles (stabilizing to steady the dumbells) the chest and arms (pulling against gravity and lifting the dumbells) and finally, the legs, stabilizing the body. I use this example to show a modern fitness weight lifitng activity....the actual work of lifting the weights becomes the least important part of the exerscize!

oops forgot the main point! Basically the old guys used a lot of things like Pulleys, running, jump rope, calesthenics all of which tend to work the core muscle areas. Isolating a muscle with weights was not adapted because of the half truism that weights build bulk and make one slow. my point is that ANY activity that isolates one muscle group at the expense of balance, control and stabilization will make one ackward, slow and unbalanced. So weights do not make one anythng in particular....Think of it this way: would you rather have the arm strength of a body builder with gigantic arms, or of a parapylegic who has learned to use a manual wheelchair to race around town? the body builder is bigger but in a contest of working strength the parapylegic would own the body builder.

Bodyshot3
12-10-2013, 03:23 PM
I think Mayorga's a candidate.....unless you count picking-up a full ashtray as a kind of weight-conditioning. Guess he kept himself fit by always being involved in a scrap outside the ring. Fascinated by that guy, smoked like a Chinese factory chimney and yet sometimes fought like a demon.

Some really good technical stuff here on the potentially damaging use of weights and it reminds me of Frank Bruno who was a very muscular guy even as a teenage amateur; Bruno did use weights but was always instructed to use very light loads and in short bursts because Terry Lawless and George Francis knew that Frank's issue was stamina and flexibility. I think they even had Frank going to tap dancing lessons to improve his movement....which must have been a sight.