Tua, Frazier, Marciano, and Tyson:
We know Tyson was more of a Mid range fighter....we know Frazier- Inside Fighter...what's your opinions of the other two with their style: Tua and Marciano with their styles and what they could do?

Who could fight from mid-range, who could fight from the inside and if both, which one were they more of...more favorable/effective at?


All were the under 6'0 HWs which is why the above are mentioned. Tua didn't win a title but he was in an era of bigger HWs that were good. Still think the Ike fight took a lot out of him. And if he was placed in a different era or even placed at the right time in his era, like when Ruiz had a title, he would have won...which is why I included him to add one more guy.



For the poll, which one was the best out of the four at their peak.
If you had to put them in a round-robin tournament against each other, who stands at the top at the end?
Also included; who is more likely to beat the Top Contenders and ATG HWs in history no matter the era...up to today.


Option 1 clarify: Best of the group; but wouldn’t be the choice to fight all fighters throughout history including today

Frazier, Marciano & Tyson was all Class A fighters - Tua is a Class C fighter

personally it's an easy choice, i pick tyson, because when he was comitted, and not looking for a knockout he boxed beautifully, moving his head very fast with an underated defence, bobbing and weaving, jabbing and packing a big punch and did'nt head hunt, he took the openings that were presented and set things up beautifully by starting at the body quickly moving to the head

but then again even in his peak, i question his heart to stay in there with a tough opponent that he is incapable of stopping or dominating

you pretty much handled mikes style, not sure about frazier being an inside fighter, everytime i saw him on the inside he would stop and wait for the ref, anyway to answer the other two's(tua & marciano) to the best of my abilities(from what i've seen from them, which is'nt much).

i think tua has a style similar to tysons with maybe a lower punch output, tyson liked to punch on his way to the inside where he then would ceize to punch, tua does like to throw a little left and step into the inside but like tyson he does'nt seem to throw alot in the inside(maybe a couple of lovetaps to look busy and also wont hold onto his opponent like tyson), his defence on the other hand is differrent from tysons, he's got some james toney type shell goin on, where his right arm comes accross his chest and when he see's an opponent throwing a left moving the right arm guard to his right cheek bone(im sure you know what im talkin about) with some good head movement.

and i think if you stay relatively close to tua(like holyfield was to tyson) you got a good chance of winning.
if you dont have decent reflexes or just dont keep your hands up, keeping tua at jabbing range can lead to getting caught with one of his leaping left hooks

i aint got much on marciano, except that he looked like a fighter that came in with his head alot, liked to stay close and hit you on the inside plus he did'nt jab much did he?
liked to push you to the ropes and pin you down, he liked to swing wildly with that right hand too, many good boxers(and my choice being tyson of the four) could easily take advantage

he(marciano) to me looked to be a one handed fighter that just kept looking and looking for that big right hand

EDIT: they all virtually have the same style tho, a pressure style, always coming foward, you dont see these little guys dancing around the bigger guys

Why is Tua in this at all?

Why is Tua in this at all?

because he's below 6'0 and a good heavyweight

Tua shouldnt be compared to these great fighters, tommy burns was below 6'0, wheres his name

he had a similair style to those but he was a C grade fighter, the others were A*

I picked Tyson. The reason is he was a more complete fighter than the rest and was equally as good in both hands. He could box effectively when he needed. I'm not saying he could beat everyone, but he'd have more of a chance than these guys. I wouldn't question his heart, even when he got his ass whooped by Douglass he didn't just quite, he fought to the end. When Ruddock hurt him at the end of the 6th in their first fight, he continued to fight back and tko'd Ruddock in the next round. That Tyson wasn't as good as the pre Spinks Tyson but he was still decent. I don't count the post prison Tyson at all. He was a joke and a fraud after prison.

Frazier would have been a great fighter to go up against the rest of the heavyweights as well but I think Tyson would have done better. Marciano was a great "cruiser weight" but would get beat down easily by the larger heavyweights, IMO. Louis was beating him (IMO) before Marciano knocked him out. Louis would have easily beat him in his prime. I think Tua would have ko'd Marciano because of the huge size and power difference, even though they were about the same hight. I consider Rocky pound for pound better than Tua, though.

Tua shouldnt be compared to these great fighters, tommy burns was below 6'0, wheres his name

he had a similair style to those but he was a C grade fighter, the others were A*

Tua was a "C" grade fighter and Burns was an "A"?


I could put up some other names but wanted to make the list short...a list more people know about and can judge by footage. Burns was a while back and Old Timers can be hard to judge sometimes.

Look at what I wrote about Tua. I'm judging what Tua did at his best. After he fought Ike, I feel he went on a slide. He still did some things after but the Ike fight seemed to take something away from him. Ike was a very good fighter and it proved that Tua had a granite chin and could battle it out with a tough big guy for the distance. He lost, but there are many that feel he won the bout too.

Here are the names that I feel put Tua in the discussion:

John Ruiz....Future Title holder

Oleg Maskaev....Future Title holder

Hasim Rahman...Future Title Lineal Total holder


My point is that he could have been a Title holder, even a Lineal Title holder based on who he beat...except he just happened to meet them at the wrong time. Some people are just lucky with timing...like the fighters who fight in the right era. I think Tua may have beaten Trevor Berbick {Tyson}; Walcott {Marciano}; Buster Mathis {Frazier}. Now that's not all who those fighters fought and beat, but the point is Tua could have at least had "Champion" next to his name had he fought certain fighters at the right time. Other contenders fall into this category as well.

Tua was a "C" grade fighter and Burns was an "A"?


I could put up some other names but wanted to make the list short...a list more people know about and can judge by footage. Burns was a while back and Old Timers can be hard to judge sometimes.

Look at what I wrote about Tua. I'm judging what Tua did at his best. After he fought Ike, I feel he went on a slide. He still did some things after but the Ike fight seemed to take something away from him. Ike was a very good fighter and it proved that Tua had a granite chin and could battle it out with a tough big guy for the distance. He lost, but there are many that feel he won the bout too.

Here are the names that I feel put Tua in the discussion:

John Ruiz....Future Title holder

Oleg Maskaev....Future Title holder

Hasim Rahman...Future Title Lineal Total holder


My point is that he could have been a Title holder, even a Lineal Title holder based on who he beat...except he just happened to meet them at the wrong time. Some people are just lucky with timing...like the fighters who fight in the right era. I think Tua may have beaten Trevor Berbick {Tyson}; Walcott {Marciano}; Buster Mathis {Frazier}. Now that's not all who those fighters fought and beat, but the point is Tua could have at least had "Champion" next to his name had he fought certain fighters at the right time. Other contenders fall into this category as well.

You gotta be joking man, if you think Tua would beat Berbick, Walcott & Mathis.... Berbick was a bull who pushed a peak Larry Holmes 15rds, he wrestled the title off a peak Pinklon Thomas he beat Big John Tate, Berbick was a rough tough fighter and IMO would have no problem taking care of David Tua... Jersey Joe Walcott was a great scientific fighter who knew every trick in the book, Walcott was avoided during him prime years yet was still good enough to beat Joe Louis when past it, he won every round against Marciano and would have `schooled` David Tua.... Buster Mathis was a very under-rated fighter with pretty good boxing skills and mobility and no way would David Tua have the skills or mobilty to handle Mathis, Buster would have a `field-day`taking apart Tua.

You gotta be joking man, if you think Tua would beat Berbick, Walcott & Mathis.... Berbick was a bull who pushed a peak Larry Holmes 15rds, he wrestled the title off a peak Pinklon Thomas he beat Big John Tate, Berbick was a rough tough fighter and IMO would have no problem taking care of David Tua... Jersey Joe Walcott was a great scientific fighter who knew every trick in the book, Walcott was avoided during him prime years yet was still good enough to beat Joe Louis when past it, he won every round against Marciano and would have `schooled` David Tua.... Buster Mathis was a very under-rated fighter with pretty good boxing skills and mobility and no way would David Tua have the skills or mobilty to handle Mathis, Buster would have a `field-day`taking apart Tua.

I'm sorry but Trevor Berbick was possibly the worst fighter to ever hold a Heavyweight strap. Please. If you had any credibility at all after your constant hate campaign over Lennox that comment just destroyed what remained.

Poet

Tua shouldnt be compared to these great fighters, tommy burns was below 6'0, wheres his name

he had a similair style to those but he was a C grade fighter, the others were A*

Burns wasn't a Heavyweight: He was a Middleweight that lucked out during the chaos following Jeffries retirement. If B-Hop pulled the belt from Ruiz like Jones did would you be calling him a Heavyweight now?

Poet

Tua shouldnt be compared to these great fighters, tommy burns was below 6'0, wheres his name

he had a similair style to those but he was a C grade fighter, the others were A*

Burns was 5''7 and weighed like 170. He may have held the HW title but any half decent legitimate HW smokes him

]You gotta be joking man, if you think Tua would beat Berbick, [/B]Walcott & Mathis.... Berbick was a bull who pushed a peak Larry Holmes 15rds, he wrestled the title off a peak Pinklon Thomas he beat Big John Tate, Berbick was a rough tough fighter and IMO would have no problem taking care of David Tua... Jersey Joe Walcott was a great scientific fighter who knew every trick in the book, Walcott was avoided during him prime years yet was still good enough to beat Joe Louis when past it, he won every round against Marciano and would have `schooled` David Tua.... Buster Mathis was a very under-rated fighter with pretty good boxing skills and mobility and no way would David Tua have the skills or mobilty to handle Mathis, Buster would have a `field-day`taking apart Tua.

Just an opinion, but I think Tua would have annihilated Berbick.

Just an opinion, but I think Tua would have annihilated Berbick.

I share that opinion with you.

Just an opinion, but I think Tua would have annihilated Berbick.

nothing on Tua`s record suggests he would have much chance against former champion Trevor Berbick.. Tua edged a very controvercial decision over Hasim Rahman the same Rahman won a decision over 45yr old Berbick.. Berbick was good enough to take a peak Larry Holmes 15rds and good enough to beat prime Pinklon Thomas, Greg Page & John Tate all of who held the heavyweight title.. i could not see David Tua better Berbicks performance against those 4 fighters... Tua failed everytime he fought an opponent who was above Class C

Tua a sack of overratedness. An absolute overrated fatboy. It's an insult to include him in this list. Frazier is "aight" as the retarded rap fanatics would say. Tyson was great, but Marciano was better.

And that, lads, is how you answer a topic. Cheers.

Tua a sack of overratedness. An absolute overrated fatboy. It's an insult to include him in this list. Frazier is "aight" as the retarded rap fanatics would say. Tyson was great, but Marciano was better.

And that, lads, is how you answer a topic. Cheers.

Excuse me?

tua is the least accomplished and worst fighter of that group.

that said......i think tua beats all the guys of that group.

Frazier, Marciano & Tyson was all Class A fighters - Tua is a Class C fighter

tua is not a class c fighter.

guys like obed sullivan and danell nicholson are c fighters at worse and they couldn't handle a fat , out of shape 255 lb. tua.


class c fighters do not beat guys like oleg maskaev , fres oquendo , john ruiz , hasim rahman , etc.

a class c fighter can get lucky and get a win over one of those guys on the right night but they don't amass a bunch of good wins like that.

Why is Tua in this at all?

because tua is under 6 foot and is a top fighter.

he's no great but he was a top fighter at one point.

Tua a sack of overratedness. An absolute overrated fatboy. It's an insult to include him in this list. Frazier is "aight" as the retarded rap fanatics would say. Tyson was great, but Marciano was better.

And that, lads, is how you answer a topic. Cheers.

tua is overrated?

to be overrated you have to be highly rated. considering you would call him overrated fatboy kinda shows he's not overrated.

frazier is "aight"?

marciano is better than tyson? maybe resume wise.

i don't think marciano could win a fight against the other 3 guys of the group.

tua is the least accomplished and worst fighter of that group.

that said......i think tua beats all the guys of that group.

In a pie eating contest yes.

tua is overrated?

to be overrated you have to be highly rated. considering you would call him overrated fatboy kinda shows he's not overrated.

frazier is "aight"?

marciano is better than tyson? maybe resume wise.

i don't think marciano could win a fight against the other 3 guys of the group.

Yes he is overrated because people see that he has steel plates in his chin and can punch very hard he is automatically a very tough fighter to beat.

Even though he was outslugged and outchinned by that Nigerian nutjob, was given a boxing lesson by Lennox(Who, mind you, also took his best punch) was given another boxing lesson by Rahman, twice actually. Even blown up CW Byrd gave him a boxing lesson. Oquendo and Maskaev were also schooling him before they got caught.

I think once you figure out his left hook and don't get caught he is very beatable.

In a pie eating contest yes.



Yes he is overrated because people see that he has steel plates in his chin and can punch very hard he is automatically a very tough fighter to beat.

Even though he was outslugged and outchinned by that Nigerian nutjob, was given a boxing lesson by Lennox(Who, mind you, also took his best punch) was given another boxing lesson by Rahman, twice actually. Even blown up CW Byrd gave him a boxing lesson. Oquendo and Maskaev were also schooling him before they got caught.

I think once you figure out his left hook and don't get caught he is very beatable.

Its comical the way you tried to blow up Lyle and Foster but dismiss Tua, who's career closely resemble theirs. You really are a joke.

In a pie eating contest yes.



Yes he is overrated because people see that he has steel plates in his chin and can punch very hard he is automatically a very tough fighter to beat.

Even though he was outslugged and outchinned by that Nigerian nutjob, was given a boxing lesson by Lennox(Who, mind you, also took his best punch) was given another boxing lesson by Rahman, twice actually. Even blown up CW Byrd gave him a boxing lesson. Oquendo and Maskaev were also schooling him before they got caught.

I think once you figure out his left hook and don't get caught he is very beatable.

a guy that can knock you out and that you can't knock out does automatically mean you're a tough fighter to beat.

he was neither outslugged or outchinned by ibeabuchi. you do realize that tua landed the much harder punches and ike was the one that got the most hurt in that fight right?

wow! he got outboxed by lennox lewis and chris byrd. he must not be very good to be outboxed by an atg super heavyweight and a slick , fast southpaw.

yes rahman was outboxing him. yes oquendo was outboxing him. yes maskaev was outboxing him.

yet he tko'd all 3 in the later rounds. tua must be the luckiest guy in the world.

a guy that can knock you out and that you can't knock out does automatically mean you're a tough fighter to beat.

he was neither outslugged or outchinned by ibeabuchi. you do realize that tua landed the much harder punches and ike was the one that got the most hurt in that fight right?

wow! he got outboxed by lennox lewis and chris byrd. he must not be very good to be outboxed by an atg super heavyweight and a slick , fast southpaw.

yes rahman was outboxing him. yes oquendo was outboxing him. yes maskaev was outboxing him.

yet he tko'd all 3 in the later rounds. tua must be the luckiest guy in the world.

No he's not if he doesn't have much skill. The cunt only has a left hook. He'd be easy to figure out by any ATG(oh yeah, that nickname of his, terminator? He's not actually a robot, mate.)

Ike got hurt maybe 1 time. Tua was also hurt. Point is, he was outworked and beaten in his own game by another overrated arseclown. You probably watch the fight with a biased tone.

Getting outboxed and dominated by a small cruiserweight like Byrd is absolutely pathetic. Where was his power? Oh yeah, he can take a punch. Big fookin deal. Like I said people love granite chins.

The TKO against Rahman was a fluke. He hit him after the bell. It was a farce. The second fight wasn't even close, plus Rahman cleanly knocked him down right after the bell. But oh wait? Tua hitting Rahman after the bell counts, but if Rahman knocks him down after the bell it doesn't?

Tua "aint" ****.

Its comical the way you tried to blow up Lyle and Foster but dismiss Tua, who's career closely resemble theirs. You really are a joke.

Those 2 are far above the fatty with a left hook, who gets dominated and outboxed by blown up cruiserweights and c level fighters, and whose best win is a fluke.

Its comical the way you tried to blow up Lyle and Foster but dismiss Tua, who's career closely resemble theirs. You really are a joke.


I don't recall Slimey Limey ever discussing Ron Lyle or Mac Foster in the past,why would you mention these two men? While both have something in common,they are irrelevant to this topic.

Those 2 are far above the fatty with a left hook, who gets dominated and outboxed by blown up cruiserweights and c level fighters, and whose best win is a fluke.

Ahh, you mean Chris Byrd, who's size was about the same as Jimmy Young? The same Jimmy Young who took Lyle to school? The same Lyle who was beaten by Quarry who was even smaller than Young? Sorry, but your size argument is springing leaks everywhere, assclown. Do you really want to debate Mac Foster and Tua with me? Like I said, you're an idiot. You tried raising two fighters up to put another down. Tua's career has closely resembled both those other fighters but you try to discredit him to fulfill your agenda. You're a sad little woman, really.

1.tyson-was a blood thirsty bull
2.frazier -was battering ram
3.marciano-heart
4.tua-overrated

Those 2 are far above the fatty with a left hook, who gets dominated and outboxed by blown up cruiserweights and c level fighters, and whose best win is a fluke.


Ahh, you mean Chris Byrd, who's size was about the same as Jimmy Young? The same Jimmy Young who took Lyle to school? The same Lyle who was beaten by Quarry who was even smaller than Young? Sorry, but your size argument is springing leaks everywhere, assclown. Do you really want to debate Mac Foster and Tua with me? Like I said, you're an idiot. You tried raising two fighters up to put another down. Tua's career has closely resembled both those other fighters but you try to discredit him to fulfill your agenda. You're a sad little woman, really.

:lol1::lol1:

slimey limey... please reply for my entertainment:lol1:

Ahh, you mean Chris Byrd, who's size was about the same as Jimmy Young? The same Jimmy Young who took Lyle to school? The same Lyle who was beaten by Quarry who was even smaller than Young? Sorry, but your size argument is springing leaks everywhere, assclown. Do you really want to debate Mac Foster and Tua with me? Like I said, you're an idiot. You tried raising two fighters up to put another down. Tua's career has closely resembled both those other fighters but you try to discredit him to fulfill your agenda. You're a sad little woman, really.

Are you mad already?:luvbed:

First off, do your homework like TheGreatA-hole and post those threads here so that you have some proof to back up your claim of me praising Young and Lyle.

Second of all, this thread has nothing to do with either of those fighters so you take that off topic trolling of yours in your hand, and pound it up your fookin arse
(For reference, watch this, wanker)
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RPqsyFFZb_0&hl=nl_NL&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RPqsyFFZb_0&hl=nl_NL&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[QUOTE=Slimey Limey;6846845]Are you mad already?:luvbed:

First off, do your homework like TheGreatA-hole and post those threads here so that you have some proof to back up your claim of me praising Young and Lyle.

Second of all, this thread has nothing to do with either of those fighters so you take that off topic trolling of yours in your hand, and pound it up your fookin arse

Im sorry, did I confuse you with one of your alts?:loser: