Just to let you know i think this is highly unlikley, but still. Can Ruiz actually put up a good enough performance to win? What if he *gasp* KO'd Toney? What would your innitial reaction be?

If Toney was beaten, I would not be surprised. If he was KO'd, I would be mildly surprised.

Ruiz will be the favorite come fight time. There's a reason for this.

IF ruiz wins it wont be totally surprising but if he KOS toney.......then i would be amazed........but he will not ko toney..he already looks scared of toney

I would be really suprised if he ended up beating Toney. Toney has a much more proven record over time. Even though he's a blown-up middle wieght, i don't think Ruiz can hold a candle to him. And Ruiz is known as being one of the worst heavywieght champs in recent history. I hope he gets his butt handed to him.

I don't get why people think their opinions have to be the consensus opinions. The thread title implies that the majority of posters would be shocked if Ruiz won, which simply isn't true. I would say 35% of all forum members and around 50% of all posters with 1,000 or more posts would think Ruiz is going to win...

Toney is a Not a Natural HW, While John Ruiz is, I am not a fan of either but i think RUiz is seasoned, yeah his hugging style is ugly and everyone hates him, but he doesn't dodge he takes on all sizes of opponents, and he wins, he is a 2 time HW champ, what has toney done lately nothing beaten a few old bums but thats it.

Ruiz deserves to be favourite and in my opinion he deserves to win.

what do you mean what if, dont you mean when Ruiz beats Toney. Toney will not win he can not stay away from Ruiz's wrestling tactics like Roy Jones did. I think it will be a good fight, but Ruiz will ruff him up & pull it off.

Ruiz is a bum. Toney will win by KO EARLY!

i cant wait to see how fast these toney fans shut up if ruiz wins and wins without kings help, if ruiz actaully beats toney im gonna laugh at everyone who said toney will beat let alone KO vitali long and hard ahahahhahah GO RUIZ

Ruiz is a bum. Toney will win by KO EARLY!

Can't argue with that brilliant post.

Toney had KO power at 160. At 50 pounds of solid muscle to that KO power and now at heavyweight he must be unstoppable!

cough* sacrcasm cough*

i cant wait to see how fast these toney fans shut up if ruiz wins and wins without kings help, if ruiz actaully beats toney im gonna laugh at everyone who said toney will beat let alone KO vitali long and hard ahahahhahah GO RUIZ

Why do you hate Toney so much. He talks alot of ****, but he backs it up. He is one of the most exciting, charismatic, skilled fighters of the last 15 years without doubt. He is one the best counterpunchers that has ever lived. Plus the guy has an iron chin, he has never been hurt in his entier professional career. You gotta love how he came back from obscurity to now be challenging for the WBA heavyweight title, and to come up all the way from middleweight and do it.

says toney was down in the secodn agaisnt a guy named reggie johnson, was he hurt then. toney is a fat ass hes a middleweight who couldnt even make light heavyweight weight anymore.


doesnt really have that many names on his record. i mean wasnt mccallum liek 41 and toney barely could beat him needed 2 chances? guy also barley could beat this sosa guy? i will say this he has alot of fights for a fat boy

guess he has reggie johnson and micheal nunn.

says toney was down in the secodn agaisnt a guy named reggie johnson, was he hurt then. toney is a fat ass hes a middleweight who couldnt even make light heavyweight weight anymore.


doesnt really have that many names on his record. i mean wasnt mccallum liek 41 and toney barely could beat him needed 2 chances? guy also barley could beat this sosa guy? i will say this he has alot of fights for a fat boy

guess he has reggie johnson and micheal nunn.

I never knew he was knocked down by Reggie Johnson to be honest, but at least according to Jim Lampley and other boxing analysts he has never been hurt. But I guess he might have been legit knocked down once, not really a big deal. The guy has over 70 professional fights. Reggie Johnson aint a bad fighter, had a split descision with Tarver in 2002, props to him for being the only guy maybe to have gotten a legit knockdown on Toney.

Hey, Super Lightweight, you're only for Ruiz this time around because you don't want someone else to join Roy Jones as being a middleweight of recent times to win the heavyweight crown....he might actually make some good defenses and potentially surpass Roy Jones.

If Ruiz wins, I'll stop watching heavyweight fights.

If Ruiz wins, I'll stop watching heavyweight fights.


unless its ruiz vs vitali right

unless its ruiz vs vitali right

Well, I'd watch Tua.

As Much As I Want Toney To Win And Hopefully He Does I Think That Ruiz Has That "great" Style That Will Give Toney A Problem And We Will See Ruiz Victorious Again As Well As Seeing The Hw Division Go To Damn Shame Imo.

ruiz is going down in history as the only fake heavyweight champ to lose to two former- middleweight champs....

LOL Guru...very possible but I see Ruiz squeezing this one out and then fighting Byrd or Golota-Brewster winner, further decimating the credibility of the heavyweight division...

God I hope Toney wins!!!

Toney/Byrd, Toney/Brewster-Golota, etc., much more entertaining fights....

I can't believe you bet for Judah against Tszyu, fight might not happen anyways, but Judah would lose in the rematch. Tszyu is the best right now at 140 and I would guess going to 147 is no big woop. He is definetly #1 at pound for pound. I would hate to see McKay the biggest idiot ever win this bet.

ruiz would prolly get no credit
instead toney would have all along been a chump "playing" Heaveyweight
who did pound on an old Holyfield

Toney isn't near as fast as Roy Jones Jr. Not even when they were the same weight. Remeber Jones doing that Chicken dance thing to Toney. Then Toney copied it and Jones popped him and knocked him down. Point being ( weak one i know ), he just isnt fast enough to stay outside and take pot shots at ruiz like jones did. He is going to have to fight him like a heavyweight, and well, toney is a heavyweight due to the ingestion of lots and lots of calories. I think the emotional money is going to be on Toney, jsut because people want to see him win. But the smart bet, at heavy, would be Ruiz.

Toney isn't near as fast as Roy Jones Jr. Not even when they were the same weight. Remeber Jones doing that Chicken dance thing to Toney. Then Toney copied it and Jones popped him and knocked him down. Point being ( weak one i know ), he just isnt fast enough to stay outside and take pot shots at ruiz like jones did. He is going to have to fight him like a heavyweight, and well, toney is a heavyweight due to the ingestion of lots and lots of calories. I think the emotional money is going to be on Toney, jsut because people want to see him win. But the smart bet, at heavy, would be Ruiz.
No question he aint as qucik as jones
no one is
no one will beat ruiz like jones did
but it will be similar
hes still quicker den ruiz
i think itll look lil like a slowd down version of jones-ruiz
with a lil more mixing up
cuz i think if toney feels he hurts him
hes gonna go for it more so den jones would have or did

Toney isn't near as fast as Roy Jones Jr. Not even when they were the same weight. Remeber Jones doing that Chicken dance thing to Toney. Then Toney copied it and Jones popped him and knocked him down. Point being ( weak one i know ), he just isnt fast enough to stay outside and take pot shots at ruiz like jones did. He is going to have to fight him like a heavyweight, and well, toney is a heavyweight due to the ingestion of lots and lots of calories. I think the emotional money is going to be on Toney, jsut because people want to see him win. But the smart bet, at heavy, would be Ruiz.

Jones just has the worst style for Toney that any fighter could have. Where he keeps his hands way in front and his body way back behind his hands, he does not com forward ever and leaves no opportunity for counterpunching. Jones has a freakish unorthodox style that is just costum made to win descisions against Toney. Roy Jones is kinda like John Ruiz in alot of ways, he wins fights, but the style he does it in is kinda ugly, unless your a big fan of Roy Jones unorthodox boxing style.

He is not nearly as boring as Ruiz, but he wins wide UD's often without landing any significant power shots in an entire fight. When he fights quality opposition he wins that way. Against lesser fighters he'll land flashy combo's and ****.

toney is not going to win the same way jones did, but he is gonna win.. toney is a master boxer and ruiz isn't good enough to deal with it.. the fight won't be close, but it wont be as one sided as ruiz/jones...

says toney was down in the secodn agaisnt a guy named reggie johnson, was he hurt then. toney is a fat ass hes a middleweight who couldnt even make light heavyweight weight anymore.


doesnt really have that many names on his record. i mean wasnt mccallum liek 41 and toney barely could beat him needed 2 chances? guy also barley could beat this sosa guy? i will say this he has alot of fights for a fat boy

guess he has reggie johnson and micheal nunn.


I saw the Toney KD from Johnson and from what I recall he wasn't hurt or in trouble at all. I mean, Marvin Hagler was KD'ed by Roldan but it's really not a big deal now is it. Point being, Toney has never been in trouble in his entire career and theres no reason to believe that Ruiz will change that. The whole "fat ass" middleweight thing is played out too. I'm glad that you think it's humorous, but you really just sound like a broken record.

Toney doesn't have a lot of names? You really are new to the sport aren't you. Toney has beaten Nunn, McCallum 3 times IMO, Barkley, Jirov...and smaller time, yet still tough opponents like 24-0 Littles, 18-0 Sosa, and Prince Charles Williams. McCallum was up there in years, but just a year or two before had beaten guys like Watson, Collins, Kalambay, and Graham. He was still a very tough opponent.

This fight is really getting more and more interesting to me. Ruiz tried to box with Roy Jones more than he did with his other opponents. Whether or not it was b/c of the ref or not i cant say. Maybe he wanted to try and show people he could box ( he does think he can ). If it becomes a fight like he normally fights. Throws a combo or one punch and then clinches, he has a decent shot to win. Its ugly as hell, but I'm starting to respect the guy more and more for finding ways to win. Guess he's a raiders fan and goes by that stupid "just win baby" slogan.

Just to let you know i think this is highly unlikley, but still. Can Ruiz actually put up a good enough performance to win? What if he *gasp* KO'd Toney? What would your innitial reaction be?


the only way Ruiz can win against a decent fighter is to illegally man-hug his opponent. If he wins by man hugging Toney and the ref allows it(Don King anyone?), I still give him no respect. Ruiz doesnt deserve any credit, all of his "wins" are due to don king.

I don't think anybody should be suprised if Ruiz wins. How many times has Ruiz been counted out in a fight only to win with his ugly style?

I saw the Toney KD from Johnson and from what I recall he wasn't hurt or in trouble at all. I mean, Marvin Hagler was KD'ed by Roldan but it's really not a big deal now is it. Point being, Toney has never been in trouble in his entire career and theres no reason to believe that Ruiz will change that. The whole "fat ass" middleweight thing is played out too. I'm glad that you think it's humorous, but you really just sound like a broken record.

Toney doesn't have a lot of names? You really are new to the sport aren't you. Toney has beaten Nunn, McCallum 3 times IMO, Barkley, Jirov...and smaller time, yet still tough opponents like 24-0 Littles, 18-0 Sosa, and Prince Charles Williams. McCallum was up there in years, but just a year or two before had beaten guys like Watson, Collins, Kalambay, and Graham. He was still a very tough opponent.

a draw and 2 wins agaisnt a guy just as old as holyfield, and close fights as that, ill give u nunn and barkley, and jirov is good but not a big name. and when is that last time u heard about sos and littles and williams huh?

If Toney loses to Ruiz? I hope not....

I'd sit in utter silence for about a minute, then get up cussing my ass off. Soon, I'd go home, pissed as ****, watch something to get my mind off it, then go to bed. That's what I've done A LOT, so I already know thats exactly what I'd do.

a draw and 2 wins agaisnt a guy just as old as holyfield, and close fights as that, ill give u nunn and barkley, and jirov is good but not a big name. and when is that last time u heard about sos and littles and williams huh?


Who gives a **** about big names. Everyone I named was either a good/great fighter or was a very game opponent. Jirov was the king of cruiser and Toney went up to him and ****ed his whole career up. McCallum was still a very hard guy to beat when Toney drew/won those first two fights with him. Like I said before, he had just beat 4 very good fighters before those two bouts with Toney.

I honestly dont think even in close quarters that Ruiz can beat Toney. Even with all the wrestling tactics, Toney will still outmaneuver him and counter Ruiz badly. How is Ruiz going to be able to hurt Toney? Even tho Toney fought at middlewieght much of his career, he has one of the most durable chins ever. He has certainly faced better opposition than Ruiz.

Who gives a **** about big names. Everyone I named was either a good/great fighter or was a very game opponent. Jirov was the king of cruiser and Toney went up to him and ****ed his whole career up. McCallum was still a very hard guy to beat when Toney drew/won those first two fights with him. Like I said before, he had just beat 4 very good fighters before those two bouts with Toney.



hard to talk to someoen who has fat boy's nuts down his motuh seriously

hard to talk to someoen who has fat boy's nuts down his motuh seriously


You aren't talking to me. You are being a douchebag and nitpicking everything you can because you don't like James. It's cool man...everyone hates and likes different fighters. You shouldn't try to have a rational conversation if you're going to act like an 8 year old and say, "Toneys a fat ass toneys a fat ass"...

I actually wonder if you chuckle to yourself everytime you write that. It's really unoriginal, you should get some new material. Don't try to debate **** you don't know though man...stick to your boyfriend Felix and be content with your time here on boxingscene...

you gonna tell me this isnt fat?



and when my "boyfriend" is the middleweight champ what u gonna say huh? i cant wait till the people i root for win and shut u bias ****ers up, i know i aint the smartest boxing dude around cause im young but that doesnt mean i dont know jack.

you gonna tell me this isnt fat?



and when my "boyfriend" is the middleweight champ what u gonna say huh? i cant wait till the people i root for win and shut u bias ****ers up, i know i aint the smartest boxing dude around cause im young but that doesnt mean i dont know jack.


Hmmm look at the picture and then look at what happened afterwards...you make the connection.

I'm not biased...I have given Sturm a lot of credit in the past. I hope it didn't upset you that I said that he wouldn't be able to beat B-Hop, but it's the truth. He's a nice fighter who can have some success at middle, but he's really not some extraordinary force to be reckoned with.

I know that James has had problems with his weight...but it's really not that big a deal. He's been saying since '91 that he was going to be HW champ and I believe that. I've been a big fan of his since I was a kid and I'll root for him no matter what. That's 14 years dude...probably longer than Sturms been boxing. So if you want to call me a Toney nuthugger that's fine, but I didn't jump on the bandwagon so I can live with that.

how about a bet then?

if toney wins UD ( without help with king) ill give u 10M
if ruiz wins UD ( without kings help) u give em 15M

if toney wins via ko/tko (cut tko dont count) u get acces to my avatar,custom title,Sig space which includes pic also.

if ruiz wins KO/tko (cuts dont count) u leave forum, but if u have any dignity left instead u give me same as above

TD's adn DQ's dont count either.

how about a bet then?

if toney wins UD ( without help with king) ill give u 10M
if ruiz wins UD ( without kings help) u give em 15M

if toney wins via ko/tko (cut tko dont count) u get acces to my avatar,custom title,Sig space which includes pic also.

if ruiz wins KO/tko (cuts dont count) u leave forum, but if u have any dignity left instead u give me same as above

TD's adn DQ's dont count either.



How about if Ruiz wins...you can have 100M points and get to say that Toney is a fat-ass all you want...and if Toney wins, I just get the satisfaction of knowing that he beat the gayest HW champ in the division and you give me nothing. You, or one stupid fight isn't enough to make me leave the forum that I've been a part of longer than you...don't flatter yourself.

How about if Ruiz wins...you can have 100M points and get to say that Toney is a fat-ass all you want...and if Toney wins, I just get the satisfaction of knowing that he beat the gayest HW champ in the division and you give me nothing. You, or one stupid fight isn't enough to make me leave the forum that I've been a part of longer than you...don't flatter yourself.

psh tried to make it interestimg thought u would have more confidence in yr fighter then that but hey ok. aint gonna take yr money if don king pullz another ruiz-golota though

psh tried to make it interestimg thought u would have more confidence in yr fighter then that but hey ok. aint gonna take yr money if don king pullz another ruiz-golota though


It's a win/win for you so shut the **** up. I have all of the confidence in the world that Toney will win so keep that silly **** to yourself. Again...I've supported Toney almost as long as you've been alive (by the way you speak you can't be older than 16) so save that "more confidence in your fighter" stuff. Hell, if Ruiz wins you can have my wittle custom title and can have your own little enshrinement in my sig too if it makes you feel like you're on my level.

I don't get why people think their opinions have to be the consensus opinions. The thread title implies that the majority of posters would be shocked if Ruiz won, which simply isn't true. I would say 35% of all forum members and around 50% of all posters with 1,000 or more posts would think Ruiz is going to win...

unfortunately, I think Ruiz will win..and I pray I'm wrong

I mean, Marvin Hagler was KD'ed by Roldan but it's really not a big deal now is it.

for the record..it was officially ruled a kd, but it was obviously not.

Wow, this thread grew out of no where.

for the record..it was officially ruled a kd, but it was obviously not.


Yeah...thats what I was trying to say. It was bogus and had 0 effect on the fight.

Yeah...thats what I was trying to say. It was bogus and had 0 effect on the fight.

no offense, just have to stick up for my namesake :D

how did the Hagler report go?

no offense, just have to stick up for my namesake :D

how did the Hagler report go?


heh i understand.

It went well. I was only supposed to speak for 5-6 minutes but I ended up going for 8:47 :eek:

I think that's due to the fact that I demonstrated how Tommy Hearns crushed Hagler with that famous cross and Hagler just walked through it. I also really got into the Mugabi fight and spoke about how he hit Hagler with everything but the kitchen sink but still couldnt hurt him. I really just went off my memory and kind of improvised with it. I think I got an A so that's good.

heh i understand.

It went well. I was only supposed to speak for 5-6 minutes but I ended up going for 8:47 :eek:

I think that's due to the fact that I demonstrated how Tommy Hearns crushed Hagler with that famous cross and Hagler just walked through it. I also really got into the Mugabi fight and spoke about how he hit Hagler with everything but the kitchen sink but still couldnt hurt him. I really just went off my memory and kind of improvised with it. I think I got an A so that's good.

nice..I wrote you a long diatribe on hagler in pm. I sent it and my computer went haywire and didn't send it for some reason. It was late and I was too tired to rewrite it..sorry. Sounds like you didn't need it.

The uppercut that Mugabi hit Hagler with in the fourth round should have knocked out Hagler. He didn't even flinch. After his head almost snapped off, he continued forward. I don't recall Marvin ever being hurt visably in the ring. The Hearns rights were not as hard as the announcers made it seem. They were saying Hagler was on the verge of being knocked out?..what a joke.

nice..I wrote you a long diatribe on hagler in pm. I sent it and my computer went haywire and didn't send it for some reason. It was late and I was too tired to rewrite it..sorry. Sounds like you didn't need it.

The uppercut that Mugabi hit Hagler with in the fourth round should have knocked out Hagler. He didn't even flinch. After his head almost snapped off, he continued forward. I don't recall Marvin ever being hurt visably in the ring. The Hearns rights were not as hard as the announcers made it seem. They were saying Hagler was on the verge of being knocked out?..what a joke.


I know...it's like they were pre-empting the knockout every time he threw it. He did crack him a few good times but it's like the announcers thought that a flush Hearns right hand meant nite nite.

I also used that in my speech (never recalling him being hurt). I had to make arguments against the opposing POV and stuff...saying why Ali, Marciano, LaMotta didn't have quite the chin that Hagler had. It was so funny, 99% of my class was like, "what the hell is he talking about?" :D

I know...it's like they were pre-empting the knockout every time he threw it. He did crack him a few good times but it's like the announcers thought that a flush Hearns right hand meant nite nite.

I also used that in my speech (never recalling him being hurt). I had to make arguments against the opposing POV and stuff...saying why Ali, Marciano, LaMotta didn't have quite the chin that Hagler had. It was so funny, 99% of my class was like, "what the hell is he talking about?" :D

most non boxing fans probably don't know who Hagler is. If its not Tyson,Holyfield or DeLaHoya..nobody outside our Boxing faternity knows any of these guys. Thats what is so great about this forum. In my real life, not only do none of my friends have the "sickness",but none of then like boxing period....except for a reason to drink and watch a ppv

It's a win/win for you so shut the **** up. I have all of the confidence in the world that Toney will win so keep that silly **** to yourself. Again...I've supported Toney almost as long as you've been alive (by the way you speak you can't be older than 16) so save that "more confidence in your fighter" stuff. Hell, if Ruiz wins you can have my wittle custom title and can have your own little enshrinement in my sig too if it makes you feel like you're on my level.

getting a little touchy eh, and what do u mean by on yr level? are u a superior human being then me if thats what yr trying to say?