Do you know why the heavyweights suck , its not because they lack talent its because they are trained by sub pat ytrainers . Take a look vital klitschco foe example the guys boxing fundamentals are awful . Vitali shows no head movement and is straight up . He often throws punches out of position exposing himself to lethal counter punches . When he gets hit, he backs straight up so he can be hit again . He dosent know how to duck, bend at the waist and stay in punching position when avoiding punches and instead leans away from punches . Klitschco blocks some but dosent counter he dosent have a complete arsenal of punches , his footwork is horrible . He is panicked when he is attacked and dosent clinch well . I mean this guy is the best heavyweight in the world and he has all these technical deficences . The only good trainer in the heavyweight division is freddie roach , his fighter james toney is the only heavyweight in the division with good boxing fundamental the rest of the heavyweight trainers suck and they are the reason the heavyweights suck .

The heavyweights suck because there isn't a unified champion in my opinion. If there was a true champion then perhaps bigger fights would be lined up. Instead at this moment in time non of the title holders seem to want to fight each other. Maybe thats because of a strong Don King influence in the heavyweight division. I reckon if Danny beats Vitali then we will be a step closer to getting a unified champ because Danny boy will fight anyone and he is run by Mr Frank Warren. The old rivalry between Don and Frank can start up again. Thats if Danny wins of course. :D

The last 4 heavyweight bouts showed why this division is in a sorry
state. Except for probably Rahman, I couldn't say anything good about the rest of the heavies who fought that night.

Rahman won by stoppage but he looked really sloppy and unprofessional doing so in my opinion. Rahman has got impressive power but he seems so sluggish and sloppy with his punches.

It has nothing to do with not having a unified champion , you could have a unified champion and the division would still suck . You only have to lok at the current heavyweights to see that they have very poor boxing fundamentals, they are being trained by clowns who nothing about the sweet science and are teaching there fighters incorrect boxing technique . Its the subar the trainers who are killing the division not don king , money or the paper titles . These crap trainers need to be removed from the division and they need to be replaced by guys like larry holmes and sugar ray leonard who were great boxers and who know everything there is to know about the sweet science and would be able to teach promising heavyweight the prper boxing techniques and until that happens we will have crap trainers who will continue to ruin promising young heavyweights careers .

I disagree that you can pin blame on the trainers, if a trainer is working with a average fighter then he is only going to get average medicore results. Even the likes of Larry Holmes or Sugar Ray couldn't make Ruiz any better than he already is. What the **** could you do to Chris Byrd to make him better? A new trainer can't give him a KO punch! The problem is they are ALL average fighters with average boxing skills.

I think having a unified champion would make things more exciting because the big fighters of the division could actually fight each other instead of holding on to there titles fighters other people all the time.

I agree nobody could do much with ruiz or byrd , but the likes of rahman, guinn, kirk johnson, the klitschcos could all become much better fighters if they were taught by good trainers .Look at james toney for example he has excellent fundamentals because he was taught by the best trainer in the business freddie roach . Toney is the only guy in the division who has sound boxing fundamentals , that should not be the case .

I agree nobody could do much with ruiz or byrd , but the likes of rahman, guinn, kirk johnson, the klitschcos could all become much better fighters if they were taught by good trainers .Look at james toney for example he has excellent fundamentals because he was taught by the best trainer in the business freddie roach . Toney is the only guy in the division who has sound boxing fundamentals , that should not be the case .

You maybe right to some degree but the level of fighters these trainers would have to work with is poor. Manny Stewart is a great trainer and was the perfect trainer for Lennox Lewis but when he trained Wlad even Manny couldn't help him and he did try his best. James Toney has got great boxing skills but he has always had them, Roach is a good trainer but Toney as a fighter has always been naturally gifted. His boxing skills look even greater in the heavyweight division because of his speed. Chris Byrd has good boxing skills but these days he seems to like to get messy with his opponents and i think thats a bad thing on his behalf. My saying is "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Do you know why the heavyweights suck , its not because they lack talent its because they are trained by sub pat ytrainers . Take a look vital klitschco foe example the guys boxing fundamentals are awful . Vitali shows no head movement and is straight up . He often throws punches out of position exposing himself to lethal counter punches . When he gets hit, he backs straight up so he can be hit again . He dosent know how to duck, bend at the waist and stay in punching position when avoiding punches and instead leans away from punches . Klitschco blocks some but dosent counter he dosent have a complete arsenal of punches , his footwork is horrible . He is panicked when he is attacked and dosent clinch well . I mean this guy is the best heavyweight in the world and he has all these technical deficences . The only good trainer in the heavyweight division is freddie roach , his fighter james toney is the only heavyweight in the division with good boxing fundamental the rest of the heavyweight trainers suck and they are the reason the heavyweights suck .

I fundamentally disagree with this, I don't think this is the case at all. The reason the division is poor has nothing to do with the quality of trainers. If you look at some of the supposed best fighters in the division then you'll see why.

Take Byrd, here is a guy who is relitivly small for the divsion and does not have alot to offer offensively, how has he got to the top - answer because he is technically very good defensively, he has been trained well and has the skills to deal with the majority of things thrown at him.

Look at Ruiz, I'm sorry to say this because he's so awful to watch, but he is a rank average fighter who is hanging out at the top of what is admitedly an awful division, but how has he managed it with his ability? - Answer he hugs, he clings, he covers up, he get telling shots off when he knows he can - and generally does not waste his energy with meaningless punches. These attributes have been developed with his trainer who has managed to take a fighter who has no right, with his ability, to be were he is and produced a strategy abd style that has got him were he is.

You actually concede at least that Freddy Roach has done a good job with Toney - that can't really be argued. Further to this there are a number of other fighters who the same can be said of. Do we consider Roy Jones a heavy? - if so can't argue with his technical prowess.

My point is that it has nothing to do with the quality of trainers out there or the fact that there is not a unified champion, more to do with the fact that there is a distinct lack of ability in the division and an even more severe lack of personalities to generate the interest that has gone with the divsion in the past.

I think the skill level is relatively high.

Byrd is one of the most skillful heavyweights in years, for a start.

I think the problem is that the three titlists just aren't exciting names. If they were to unify it would give one of them a big deal more respect, and it would make sense of the rankings.

If, for instance, Klit unified the belts, the others would HAVE to fight each other to jostle for position to fight him, whereas at the moment the contenders can just sit around and wait for one of the three titlists to need an opponent.


Black

Ruiz, Golota, Byrd, Tyson, Holyfield, they are the reason for me.

Thing is, they're all good fighters in their place.

It's just that the division is a mess and they're getting big fights they don't deserve.


Black

Thing is, they're all good fighters in their place.

It's just that the division is a mess and they're getting big fights they don't deserve.


Black
Even if ther was some kind of elimination series what we have isn't that good at the moment a prime Foreman or Tyson or Holmes or for gods sake Bruno would beat them.

C'mon, man...BRUNO?!?!?


But I know what you mean. Standard wise the division is pretty bad...but that doesn't mean it can't be fun if we can get a unified champion and get the right matches on.


I STILL wanna see Klit-Golota, for instance.

And how about Byrd-Toney fir the purists.


And how about Ruiz-Tua 2? COME BACK DAVID! ALL IS FORGIVEN!


Black

C'mon, man...BRUNO?!?!?


But I know what you mean. Standard wise the division is pretty bad...but that doesn't mean it can't be fun if we can get a unified champion and get the right matches on.


I STILL wanna see Klit-Golota, for instance.

And how about Byrd-Toney fir the purists.


And how about Ruiz-Tua 2? COME BACK DAVID! ALL IS FORGIVEN!


Black
Bruno I didn't rate that highly really but I really think very little of the current crop I think Vitali would beat the majority of todays fighters and sanders was able to shake up Vitali a few times so I wouldn't be surprised if Bruno did it.

If there's one thing Bruno could do it was BANG.

But he was intimidated by some fighters, and I think he'd have fought scared against Klit before getting taken out.


Sanders did hit him, but with quick, sharp shots.

Bruno's are the clobbering, ponderous type.


Black

A few reasons why the HWs suck:

1) Less HW fighters= Much smaller pool of talent
2) PPV and less fights being fought means more protected prospects who won't fight anyone dangerous until the pay-day fight
3) Lack of quality trainers-besides Roach and Steward, everyone else are not great trainers.
4) Lack of skills/talent-Mostly due to reason # 1 and b/c so many HWs weigh too much. Rahman has power but is slow and very technically limited. Even in the 80s he would've been outboxed by most of the top guys. Vitali, Ruiz, Oquendo, McCline??? Just look at them . ..
5) The HW division is TOO OLD. What the hell is going on when your average HW contender is 34 years old!!! At 34 twenty years ago you are heading towards retirement. But now its the prime of your career! Golota is 36, Toney is 36, Byrd and McCline are 34, Vitali is 33, Donald and Sanders are 38, Rahman at 32 is now considered young. The only top 10 guy in his 20s is 28 yr old Wladimir Klitschko, who has already gone through two 'rebuilding stages' due to embarassing losses. At 28 he should be in the prime of his career.
The HWs should be re-named the senior division.

Vitali to the rescue. ;)

Lets keep our fingers crossed.

There WAS Dominic Guinn, but we all knew what happened to him...

I think the skill level is relatively high.

Byrd is one of the most skillful heavyweights in years, for a start.

I think the problem is that the three titlists just aren't exciting names. If they were to unify it would give one of them a big deal more respect, and it would make sense of the rankings.

If, for instance, Klit unified the belts, the others would HAVE to fight each other to jostle for position to fight him, whereas at the moment the contenders can just sit around and wait for one of the three titlists to need an opponent.


Black

I think you hit the nail on its head here and concur.

I think the only great trainer in the division is frddie roach , he has do woners with toneys career taught him excellent boxing technique , the same with tyson he has got him back to his old peek a boo style , the onlt that has being able to get him to do it since kevin rooney . Believe me if all the trainers in the division were half as good as freddie roach , the division would be much better and the fighters would be much better , look at rahman for example the guy dosent even know how to counter punch , somebody needs to teach this guy how to box he has the tools there just not being used properly . James toney is the only good counter puncher in the division surely that shouldnt be the case . I dont see why there should be a lack of talent out there they are 6 billon people in the world , surley there is one person out there who has the tools to be a great heavyweight .

the heavyweights suck cuz there's less talent in the division. we need a guy to come along that will dominate. he's gonna come soon... hopefully

A few reasons why the HWs suck:

1) Less HW fighters= Much smaller pool of talent
2) PPV and less fights being fought means more protected prospects who won't fight anyone dangerous until the pay-day fight
3) Lack of quality trainers-besides Roach and Steward, everyone else are not great trainers.
4) Lack of skills/talent-Mostly due to reason # 1 and b/c so many HWs weigh too much. Rahman has power but is slow and very technically limited. Even in the 80s he would've been outboxed by most of the top guys. Vitali, Ruiz, Oquendo, McCline??? Just look at them . ..
5) The HW division is TOO OLD. What the hell is going on when your average HW contender is 34 years old!!! At 34 twenty years ago you are heading towards retirement. But now its the prime of your career! Golota is 36, Toney is 36, Byrd and McCline are 34, Vitali is 33, Donald and Sanders are 38, Rahman at 32 is now considered young. The only top 10 guy in his 20s is 28 yr old Wladimir Klitschko, who has already gone through two 'rebuilding stages' due to embarassing losses. At 28 he should be in the prime of his career.
The HWs should be re-named the senior division.
lmao! the seniors division heh.. hmm maybe it's not good to make fun of old heavyweights. remember what george foreman did to michael moore?

hopefully a new heavyweight sensation comes along, I think that would help the division and boxing in genrel.

Anyone in mind?

Samuel Peters looks interesting, and Dwain Chambers seems to be getting a bit of a name for himself.

Besides that, Audley Harrison, Calvin Brock and Malik Scott look rather uninspiring.

Black

If Guinn can rededicate himself. He will be a force to be reckoned with.

If Guinn can rededicate himself. He will be a force to be reckoned with.
Yeah. I was really impressed with Guinn. I thought he would be the next heavyweight star... until he lost to Barrett. I think things would be much different now if guinn dominated or at least decisively defeated barrett. guinn has a good chin, good power and seems to keep his stamina into the late rounds... at least in the duncan dokiwari fight he did. maybe he only looks good against taller fighters since he said he prefers fighting bigger guys.

\ The only good trainer in the heavyweight division is freddie roach , his fighter james toney is the only heavyweight in the division with good boxing fundamental the rest of the heavyweight trainers suck and they are the reason the heavyweights suck .


Roach has little to do with Toney being one of the best boxers.

Yeah. I was really impressed with Guinn. I thought he would be the next heavyweight star... until he lost to Barrett. I think things would be much different now if guinn dominated or at least decisively defeated barrett. guinn has a good chin, good power and seems to keep his stamina into the late rounds... at least in the duncan dokiwari fight he did. maybe he only looks good against taller fighters since he said he prefers fighting bigger guys.


Guinn is good but is not much more than that.

i think Vitali Klitschko is an awesome boxer but has terrible defence so
i think the heavyweight devisons only problum is the lack of boxers