Hats off to Pacquiao on a fine achievement winning at the 7th weight.

Anyone have any theories on how many weights a fighter could win a title at.
I guess one should look at the fact that Pacman started at straw I believe so it is not beyond the realms of possibility that 9 is in range.

And how do we rate his achievement with say Armstrong's 3 at the same time in the one sanctioning body era at old 8 weights?

Any thoughts on this gents?

I bet about 80% of my points on Cotto.. wasn't a good idea.

Pacquiao said that he wasn't gonna move up another weight class because he would be too small. I agree with that.

His achievements are dead close to Armstrong's. I don't really know what to say, at this point.

I bet about 80% of my points on Cotto.. wasn't a good idea.

Pacquiao said that he wasn't gonna move up another weight class because he would be too small. I agree with that.

His achievements are dead close to Armstrong's. I don't really know what to say, at this point.
Ouch on the points, I had a fancy for Pac but not an 80% fancy.
It is always hard to judge these kind of fights though because at some point a fighter is going to go a weight too far.
I agree I think even old farts like me should acknowledge this achievement, by all means take into account weigh in times, junior and alphabet titles but 7 is a magnificent achievement.

Hats off to Pacquiao on a fine achievement winning at the 7th weight.

Anyone have any theories on how many weights a fighter could win a title at.
I guess one should look at the fact that Pacman started at straw I believe so it is not beyond the realms of possibility that 9 is in range.

And how do we rate his achievement with say Armstrong's 3 at the same time in the one sanctioning body era at old 8 weights?

Any thoughts on this gents?

I don't put much stock in belt grabbing really. Armstrong's was a singular achievement because he held those three belts simultaniously. That being said, Pacquiao is clearly an ATG fighter: I've said so for the past two years and last night just confirms it. Now exactly WHERE he ranks among ATGs is best left for when Manny slips into past-prime since his story isn't finished yet and he has some more in-prime fights left which will go a long way to determining exactly where he belongs.

Poet

I don't put much stock in belt grabbing really. Armstrong's was a singular achievement because he held those three belts simultaniously. That being said, Pacquiao is clearly an ATG fighter: I've said so for the past two years and last night just confirms it. Now exactly WHERE he ranks among ATGs is best left for when Manny slips into past-prime since his story isn't finished yet and he has some more in-prime fights left which will go a long way to determining exactly where he belongs.

Poet
It's swings and roundabouts really, the bodies don't allow for Armstrong's achievement to be repeated and Armstrong and his era didn't have the same opportunities to belt grab.
Pretty much got to be a latin or asian fighter to go beyond 7 you think?

Roll on Mayweather v Pacman though it would be ironic if Pacquiao now ducked him, PBF needs the fight for his place in history far more than Pacman.

It's swings and roundabouts really, the bodies don't allow for Armstrong's achievement to be repeated and Armstrong and his era didn't have the same opportunities to belt grab.
Pretty much got to be a latin or asian fighter to go beyond 7 you think?

Roll on Mayweather v Pacman though it would be ironic if Pacquiao now ducked him, PBF needs the fight for his place in history far more than Pacman.

Yeah, the proliferation of weight classes and sanctioning bodies have really cheapend titles and watered down what it means to be a "champion".

I serious doubt Pacquiao would "duck" Floyd: Most likely it would be the other way around as Manny has shown a willingness to take on anyone while Mayweather has shown himself to more interested in fighting opponents who pose no risk.

Poet

It is a wonderful achievement indeed. I would have to say that if he fights 2 more times, with those 2 fights being against Mayweather and Marquez, and he wins both convincingly and then retires..I would be speechless.

What should also be taken into serious consideration is how they won their titles.

Armstrong won the featherweight, jumped up two weight classes to get the welterweight and then came back down to grab the lightweight. All of this was done by weighing from 125-135. Only 10 pounds and he conquered three divisions, when there was only eight.

The manner in which Pacquiao has won most of his titles have been in a very dominating fashion. I've never seen another fighter do what he did to the likes of Barrera, Hatton and Cotto. He truly dominated them in brutal fashion.

It is a wonderful achievement indeed. I would have to say that if he fights 2 more times, with those 2 fights being against Mayweather and Marquez, and he wins both convincingly and then retires..I would be speechless.


The manner in which Pacquiao has won most of his titles have been in a very dominating fashion. I've never seen another fighter do what he did to the likes of Barrera, Hatton and Cotto. He truly dominated them in brutal fashion.

He really is a marvelous fighter and we should enjoy him for as long as he keeps going but I think 2 fights and call it a day would be a very sensible course. It just goes to show that having an 0 on your record isn't the be all and end all.

Yeah, the proliferation of weight classes and sanctioning bodies have really cheapend titles and watered down what it means to be a "champion".



For sure, it especially irritates us junior posters :)
That said you can't penalise Pac's achievement for the advantages of the day.
But I think it equates more to 3 possibly 4 under old school 8 but still not too shabby.

Cotto chalks up the second highly impressive win for Pacman, the other being the first Barrera fight. Between a dubious decision over Marquez, and fighting other guys clearly on the decline, those other marquee names he beat should be put in context.

What I'm really wondering is who he fights next. If not Mayweather, then who? Won't be a rematch with Cotto...not after that beating. A rematch with Marquez also seems unlikely, as it doesn't look like the current version of Marquez stands a chance. He's not going to fight Mosley, should he get by Berto. But he may fight Berto should he get by Mosley... Hopefully that doesn't happen tho.

Cotto chalks up the second highly impressive win for Pacman, the other being the first Barrera fight. Between a dubious decision over Marquez, and fighting other guys clearly on the decline, those other marquee names he beat should be put in context.

What about Hatton?

Hatton was considered the best light welterweight in the world. Regardless of how you think he was, at the time, he was the best.

What about Hatton?

Hatton was considered the best light welterweight in the world. Regardless of how you think he was, at the time, he was the best.

Reality and what's written on a piece of paper are two different things dude. He beat a faded Hatton. If he beat Timothy Bradley instead, I would say he has 3 very impressive wins.

If Hatton was ever an A level fighter...it was back in 2005. He was B level by the time Pac got to him.

Reality and what's written on a piece of paper are two different things dude. He beat a faded Hatton. If he beat Timothy Bradley instead, I would say he has 3 very impressive wins.

If Hatton was ever an A level fighter...it was back in 2005. He was B level by the time Pac got to him.

It's not called reality. It's called opinion. In this case, it's your opinion.

Hatton was unbeaten at 140, before the Pacquiao fight. He came off a very good win over Malignaggi. I don't understand why you would try and downplay him.

It's not called reality. It's called opinion. In this case, it's your opinion.

Hatton was unbeaten at 140, before the Pacquiao fight. He came off a very good win over Malignaggi. I don't understand why you would try and downplay him.

Undefeated against WHO. The man was not beating top fighters. Tszyu is the best fighter he beat at 140. And Tszyu was also faded, and Hatton cheated to beat him (the ref helped).

Level of opposition matters. And it's easy to see he was a better fighter in '05 then he was against Pac. My "opinion" is an educated observation. Open your eyes, you'll see it too.

Undefeated against WHO. The man was not beating top fighters. Tszyu is the best fighter he beat at 140. And Tszyu was also faded, and Hatton cheated to beat him (the ref helped).

Level of opposition matters. And it's easy to see he was a better fighter in '05 then he was against Pac. My "opinion" is an educated observation. Open your eyes, you'll see it too.
Tszyu took the mic immediately after losing, & gracefully acknowledged that Hatton had beaten him fair & square.. Sure, Kostya was faded, but no way did Ricky cheat..

Undefeated against WHO. The man was not beating top fighters. Tszyu is the best fighter he beat at 140. And Tszyu was also faded, and Hatton cheated to beat him (the ref helped).

Level of opposition matters. And it's easy to see he was a better fighter in '05 then he was against Pac. My "opinion" is an educated observation. Open your eyes, you'll see it too.

I never said that you had to be undefeated to be a great fighter. But he was undefeated, at 140. Tszyu, Malignaggi and Urango (2-time and current world champion at 140) are some good wins on his record. You can even add Castillo but he wasn't a natural 140 pounder and his best days were behind him. Bradley or Holt don't have better names on their record.

The fact is that he was considered the best, by the boxing public.

Anyways, let's leave this for somewhere else. I don't wanna hijack this thread.

I never said that you had to be undefeated to be a great fighter. But he was undefeated, at 140. Tszyu, Malignaggi and Urango (2-time and current world champion at 140) are some good wins on his record. You can even add Castillo but he wasn't a natural 140 pounder and his best days were behind him. Bradley or Holt don't have better names on their record.

The fact is that he was considered the best, by the boxing public.

Anyways, let's leave this for somewhere else. I don't wanna hijack this thread.

And the general boxing public knows very little. If Hatton fought Bradley next, how do you think he'd do? You give him 1 chance, maybe 2 chances in hell?

The fighters you listed that Hatton beat (not including Tszyu) are B level fighters on their best day. At the time of the Hatton fight, Malignaggi was at his worst. The guy that fought Juan Diaz is a very different fighter. Look to Malignaggi's previously pathetic performances before Hatton for further confirmation. As for Urango, Hatton, once again, was a better fighter when he beat him than compared to when he fought Pac. Simple as that. This isn't about trying to take anything away from Pac. I'd call it like this for any fighter.

As for you malone, the reffing in that fight was a disgrace. Hatton should have been DQed for the amount of holding he did, but he wasn't even warned. Tszyu merely was doing his part and not making excuses. That's what a man does. It's up to us, the spectators, to call it like it is.

Earlier this week I had to pick up some awards for the Induction and Award Ceremonies of the New Jersey Boxing Hall of Fame. While I was picking them up, I also took a look at the WBO Championship Belt that Manny received after stopping Cotto. The Belt company is called " Sartonk Designs" and I am one of the three Board members.

It's pretty cool to see and hold the Belt before it was shipped out, knowing that the winner was going to receive it days later.

I'm not really sure what to make of the whole title situation anymore. It's such a difficult thing to assess a fighter in todays title climate and the way fights are now made.

I know it's said all the time and people think of it as a cliche, but a cliche is such because it holds a great deal of truth and as such moves from such a consistent thing to then becoming a cliche.

The cliche is 'things are just not the same as they used to be'. It is true sadly, which can be easily seen by the sudden amount of fighters that hold more titles in more weight divisions now then ever before. After Leonard, it kind of became the thing to do.

Your superstar status was all about how many titles you could win in different weight classes. Whereas, it used to be about who you fought, if you could dominate one division for a truly lengthy period of time, and maybe if you could win in more than one weight class too. Now it is only about how many weight classes. Leonard, Hearns, Duran, Jones, Toney, Oscar, Money Mai, Pacman, etc etc etc.

Today, it is also done much more smartly than in previous years. Not only does the proliferation of titles make it a hell of a lot easier but the top fighters are now expected to move up in weight before they need to. Most fighters used to move when their body stopped allowing them to keep fighting at their natural weight class, and this was usually when they were on the decline too. Now guys like Pac and Mayweather see it more as question of 'who can I fight in the next division that doesn't pose too much of a risk and that will get me another title?'

It's still obviously an incredible feat to get seven titles, whatever those titles may be ie. official, unofficial, minor title, ring etc etc. Being able to weigh in the day before and using the hydration techniques available today also make it much easier to drop down certain weights and then be much bigger than it would have been possible many years ago.

I believe we will see more and more fighters like Pac, Oscar, Paul Williams, Money Mai etc etc etc. that will base their career in moving up weight divisions from the smallest possible at which they can win a title to the largest without posing too much risk. You need to still be a very special fighter and only the guys like Pac and Mayweather or the Williams type fighters will be able to do it but that is where boxing is headed for the future.

Win one title, maybe defend it once or twice and then move on to the next division for the next title while keep fighting the guys that have the biggest name and $ sign attached to it.

Did anyone else find Pac's win highly reminiscent of the Margarito win over Cotto? I did. Amazing stuff. Kind of shows too that Cotto face wasn't busted up because of any special pads. He just gets busted up when hit a lot. Apart from a busted nose and some more bleeding, he looked very similar to when Marg pounded his face in. Pac's wins over Barrera, Marquez and now this win over Cotto are his greatest.

As for you malone, the reffing in that fight was a disgrace. Hatton should have been DQed for the amount of holding he did, but he wasn't even warned. Tszyu merely was doing his part and not making excuses. That's what a man does. It's up to us, the spectators, to call it like it is.

There's no need to adopt that posture, I was merely saying that Hatton didn't cheat.. It was more a case of the ref allowing Hatton time to hold after being hit with Tszyu rights.. Nevertheless, Hatton took those shots and did what he needed to do, in order to survive & win.. The same accusations could be thrown at Cortez, for appearing to favor Mayweather when he fought Hatton..

The irony with Hatton fans is they have the audacity to ***** about Joe Cortez allday long, just because their gay idol did! They believe his bull**** even though Joe Cortez is one of the best

The irony with Hatton fans is they have the audacity to ***** about Joe Cortez allday long, just because their gay idol did! They believe his bull**** even though Joe Cortez is one of the best
My observations are completely independent of Fanism, which is more for you NSB trespassers.
I'd much rather watch PBF than Hatton, any day..
And many independents are of the opinion that Cortez displayed some bias in Mayweather's favor..

Pacquiao is the greatest fighter EVER in the sport of boxing