View Full Version : George Foreman a physical freak of nature


tommyhearns804
04-01-2005, 07:59 AM
He didn't get his body or weight into his punches. His leverage was so-so at best. Basically, he was an arm puncher. He first won the heavyweight title in 1973 with a devastating knockout over an undefeated undisputed champion. After retiring in March of 1977, he came back in March of 1987 after a ten year hiatus during which he didn't fight once. In November of 1994 he won the title for a second time with a one punch knockout over an undefeated champ at age 45.

His name is George Foreman, and to me he is one of the biggest physical freaks of nature in sports history. Think about it, he has just about the highest knockout percentage in heavyweight history. Yet he was an arm puncher. He's the last guy you'd want teaching your fighter how to punch, because he didn't know how from a fundamental or technical vantage point. Basically, he throws a punch like a novice slaps, only his arm has a balled fist at the end.

What George Foreman could do was punch. When you break Foreman down as a fighter, what can you really say about him? Sure he was very tough mentally and was also fearless. He had a great chin and his punching power was unmatched. His jab was a sledgehammer, and his hook and uppercut had neck-breaking power. However, all of those things, except for his mental strength and toughness, tie into his God given physical strength.

In Foreman's first 25 or so fights in the 70's, he exhibited a pretty good jab. However, once he started clubbing fighters out, he just started going for the big shot from the onset. Foreman had some boxing skills, but he was allowed to abandon them because of his power. His trainer Dick Saddler fell in love with George's power, and he cut a lot of corners when teaching him basics. Saddler's attitude was, George, go run a few miles and then go pound the heavy bag. Because there ain't a man in the world who can stand up to your punch. This was something Saddler repeated often and was proud of.

Think about it, Ali had to take a pounding before he was able to open up and fight Foreman. It's not like Ali outfought or out boxed him from start to finish. While Foreman had his strength, Ali really couldn't fight him. Had Ali not had one of the greatest chin's in heavyweight history, or not have the capacity to absorb the best body shot of any heavyweight in history, he would've lost to Foreman. It was Ali's durability and toughness that enabled him to beat Foreman, not necessarily his speed and skill as a boxer. That's why, in my opinion, Ali was the only mover or boxer who could've defeated Foreman at his peak. As tough as Tunney and Holmes were, there is no way either of them could take it to the head and body like Ali. That's why they would not have been around in the eighth round to see Foreman tire so they could out box him. I don't think they could've held the undefeated Foreman off like Ali did until he tired and wound down?


After Foreman lost to Young he retired. His first career was from June of 1969 thru March of 1977. During that time he won the title and held it for almost two years. His record when he retired was 45-2 (42). Although he fought in one of the best eras in heavyweight history, and beat an all-time great in Frazier to win the title, Foreman didn't have a clue about boxing basics. The only thing that enabled Foreman to go through the division and become champ was his strength and power that only he was blessed with at birth. Had Foreman learned how to get his body into his punches, and not been an arm puncher, it would have been illegal to allow him to fight.

Ten years after retiring, Foreman came back at age 38. During his prime in the 70's, he fought between 217-232 pounds. The second incarnation of Foreman fought between 240-267. This older version of Foreman was much slower, but fought at a much more measured pace. He fought more relaxed and loose. That's the thing that allowed him to go rounds without being exhausted. The amazing thing was although he didn't retain all the power that he had in the 70's, he still had dynamite in both hands and scored some devastating knockouts.

Four years into his comeback, Foreman fought undisputed Heavyweight Champ Evander Holyfield, who just won the title from Mike Tyson conqueror Buster Douglas. Holyfield was at his absolute physical peak at this time. Going into the Holyfield fight, Foreman was thought to have no shot and most likely would be stopped. In the bout, Foreman was out boxed and out maneuvered losing a unanimous decision. However, the strength and power of Foreman was evident throughout the bout. During the 12 rounds Foreman shook Holyfield a few times, and forced him to fight moving away. The problem Foreman had with Holyfield was simply that he was too slow to mount a sustained offensive attack.

A little over three years after losing to Holyfield, Foreman fought the man who took Holyfield's title eight month's earlier, Michael Moorer. In a fight Foreman was clearly being outfought, he scored a devastating one-punch knockout in the 10th round to win the title at age 45. Foreman's knockout of Moorer put him in the history book's as the oldest man to win the Heavyweight title. A record that still stands.

The really amazing thing about George Foreman was that the only real weapon he had was his strength and awesome power. Although he was mentally tough and determined, along with being fearless, it was his power that carried him to the Heavyweight Championship twice. Think about it, he wasn't a good boxer, he wasn't fast, and his offense was his defense. His only true weapon was his strength and power.

Five and a half years after decisioning Foreman, Holyfield was thought to be shot. In November of 1996, Holyfield fought WBA-WBC champ Mike Tyson. Holyfield went on to stop Tyson in the 11th round. In this fight, Holyfield won no less than 8 of the 10 rounds they fought before stopping Tyson in the 11th. He out fought and muscled Tyson the entire fight. This was a 30-year old Tyson who just scored impressive knockout victories in winning both title belts only months earlier. Basically, an older Holyfield controlled and out muscled a 30-year old Tyson, something he wasn't able to do versus a 42 year old Foreman when he was in his prime.

Three years after beating Tyson, Holyfield defended both of his titles versus IBF champ Lennox Lewis twice. In their first fight, Holyfield was clearly out fought by Lewis, yet was the aggressor in the fight. In the rematch six months later, a better-prepared Holyfield lost a close decision. In this fight, Holyfield was the more effective aggressor and was able to push Lewis back the whole fight. The point is a 34 year old prime Lewis wasn't able to move an eroded Holyfield around the ring like a 42 year old Foreman did. In Holyfield's fights with Foreman and Lewis, Foreman's jab forced Holyfield to retreat, something Lewis couldn't do with his big right hand and uppercuts.

Against Tyson and Lewis, an older Holyfield was more in control physically, than a younger Holyfield was versus an older Foreman. In fact, Foreman actually had Holyfield shook a few times, something neither Tyson or Lewis were able to do once.

What other former heavyweight champ could've taken off ten years, and then comeback to win boxing’s greatest prize? When Foreman came back in the late 80's, he had one weapon, just like he had in the 70's, power and strength. Foreman wasn't a great boxer at any time in his career. In the 70's he fought in a rage that was nothing more than a charge from his stool to his opponent's chin. In the late 80's and 90's, Foreman's biggest weapon was his strength and punch. Some say he was a smarter boxer, but he really just fought at a more measured pace. Basically, he just tempered his aggression. His goal was to score a knockout regardless of what version of his career you're discussing.

In the 70's, Foreman was hurt badly only by Ron Lyle, who was a terrific puncher. And Foreman was in dreadful shape in the Lyle fight. It was his first fight in 15 months after losing to Ali, unless you count the Toronto-5 exhibition, which I don't. Ali stopped him, but it was due to Foreman's severe fatigue. Against Jimmy Young he was a head case and was beaten before his hands were even wrapped. In his comeback, he wasn't hurt or close to going down once. Not by Holyfield, who hit him with over 25 unanswered punches in the ninth round of their fight. Not by Cooney, who he devastated, or Bert Cooper who was very dangerous early in the fight. Not by Morrison, who was forced to run like Carl Lewis from him. And not by Michael Moorer, who hit him at will until Foreman dropped one short right hand on his chin.

George Foreman was a physical freak of nature. Never in heavyweight history has one fighter accomplished so much, while possessing just one weapon, strength and power. I can't imagine other big punchers like Lewis, Liston, Frazier, Louis, Tyson or Marciano taking off 10 years and then coming back at age 45 and winning the title? Remember, Tyson wanted no part of Foreman in the early 90's, which I know to be an absolute fact (although some Tyson fans try to pretend it's not). Lewis never asked for him during that time. And Holyfield who did fight him, was banged around despite winning and was holding on at the end. And Holyfield says to this day that Foreman was without a doubt the strongest and best puncher he ever fought.

The prime of Foreman ended in The "20th of May" stadium on an October night in 1974. If George Foreman knew how to box and punch from a fundamental standpoint, it would've been illegal to allow him to fight.

George Foreman is definitely a physical freak of nature!

kapersky
04-01-2005, 09:06 AM
George Foreman is definitely a physical freak of nature!

he is, but i prime lennox lewis would ko him. he have only strengt and than isnt enough. lennox lewis would out jab him and sooner or later ko him. but nomatter what he is definitely a physical freal of nature. ko moorer he was 45 thats strong by him. :boxing:

tommyhearns804
04-01-2005, 10:34 AM
you are a moron lennox lewis couldnt even knock out a washed holyfield so how in the hell would he knock out a prime foreman?not to mention lennox lewis has a glass chin.learn more about boxing before you open your mouth

leff
04-01-2005, 11:05 AM
great post on foremann, but i must had he allso had pretty good stamina in his prime.

and too the fool who said lewis would ko foremann.......your a fool.

snap the jab
04-02-2005, 01:46 AM
He had huge power, but as you noted his boxing skills were extremely sloppy, and he was so damn slow... I don't think that Ali had to let george wear himself out first before he opened up on him, I think that Ali did that just so he could say that he didn't run from Foreman, did it just so he could say that he stood there and took Foreman's shots and still beat him. If you watch that fight you can see that Ali easily avoids almost all of Foreman's punches while standing still on the ropes - if he'd floated and stung instead he would have taken Foreman apart just the same with his vastly superior speed and boxing abilities and Foreman would hardly have hit him at all.

Overall Foreman is a guy with alot of natural talent, alot of intelligence, but not alot of boxing skill.

bigrealmike
04-02-2005, 06:47 AM
Foreman was pretty well schooled and had good fundamentals.
He moved his feet well, and was very good at cutting off the ring. Because of his monster power, he never had to develop those boxing skills further.

Young Foreman looks like a ballerina compared with the lumbering big men of today (Lewis, Klit, et. ) . He was positively fluid next to those guys.

At the time, coming in the wake of Ali, Foreman himself was described as lumbering and slow. Compared with the big men of today, he was neither .

kapersky
04-02-2005, 09:22 AM
you are a moron lennox lewis couldnt even knock out a washed holyfield so how in the hell would he knock out a prime foreman?not to mention lennox lewis has a glass chin.learn more about boxing before you open your mouth

washed holyfield?, he ko tyson and moorer just before that fight. lennox lewis have his number. i am imp of foreman´s power and thats only thing he had. lennox lewis is also a hard punches and skills. foreman´s dont have good defence, ll would punch throw his gloves.

tommyhearns804
04-03-2005, 11:16 AM
holyfield was washed up before he even fought tyson.knocking out tyson only proved a washed up guy with heart and no fear could beat a overated coward who folds when you put pressure on him.name on world class fighter in his prime lewis knocked out?nobody.he ran like a girl from a over the hill holyfield.he would be destroyed by a prime foreman
and why do people keep insisting a prime foreman was slow?if they was the case wouldnt it be easy for people to just out box him?why wasnt people like norton and frazier able to pick him apart?45-2 42 ko's so i guess the 45 people foreman destroyed were dead when they fougth foreman. the foreman slow bull came from ali and has stuck with slow witted people who never watched foreman fight since them.read alis book and read what he said about foremans speed of foot.he said he was planning on boxing foreman but one he got in the ring he realized foreman was way to quick to out box and that he would be ko'd if he tried that.so he layed against the ropes hoping foreman would get tired.
foreman was quicker than people like marciano who whites worship.foreman is quick than lewis who young guys who never seen foreman frazier lyle norton and ali fight worship.formean had a really really quick jab and a right hand.the fight with ali wasnt the way foreman usually fought.he didnt respect ali and thought he could knock him out easily.and then he let ali get in his head and tried to knock him out with one punch.it was luck.ali got lucky.you dont think douglas was better than tyson do you?how about max shmeling do you think he is better than joe louis?i doubt you do and both tyson and lous were destroyed.
and foremans defense in his prime was just as good as ali.which isnt really saying much because both kept their hands low alot.but foremans offense and power made his defense unimportant.
just go back and watch more of foremans fights besides the ali one and you will see how great he really was

Southpaw16
04-03-2005, 02:57 PM
Good post, although I don't think Foreman just threw arm punches. He used his lower body and torso to generate power just like any other great puncher.

random guy
04-10-2005, 02:23 AM
you forgot one thing that man makes a fine grill

Komandos
04-10-2005, 10:39 AM
very nice post on foreman.Thank's a lot.

dafuture
04-10-2005, 01:52 PM
foreman was trained to box,at one point by the old mongoose,foreman could swarm with sluggers power he should of never boxed just condition running and swarm he never would of lost a fight

dempseyfire
04-10-2005, 02:09 PM
Good post, although I don't think Foreman just threw arm punches. He used his lower body and torso to generate power just like any other great puncher.


Exactly. He got great leverage on his hooks and uppercuts. In fact he sometimes put TOO much of his body into his hooks and he left himself too open afterwards. And to say he had next to little boxing skill is ridiculous. He had good footmovement, knew how to cut corners, knew how to throw a great jab that he put his whole shoulder behind (although he did basicaly abandon this for the Ali fight to his downfall). Lennox Lewis outjab George Foreman? That´s laughable at best. You saw how Ray Mercer and Bruno outjabbed Lewis . . Foreman would be his nightmare . .

Komandos
04-10-2005, 05:36 PM
George Forman is a good man but for boxing is old

Dr.Pugilist
04-11-2005, 01:32 PM
Foreman had deceptive technical skill. Or rather his natural punching ability was a skill. I am talking about his innate ability to maximize torque in his punches with full shoulder/upper body rotation. This combined with his enormous amount of fast twitch muscle fibers made him devastating..


p.s. Foreman would have taken out Lewis ..early KO.

tysonortiz
04-12-2005, 02:38 AM
Yes, I also think Lewis glass jaw wouldve been exposed by Foreman

baard
04-12-2005, 04:34 AM
As a respons to the big item on Foreman; how can you say that he only got hurt by Lyle in his first career and was never really hurt in his second?! Have you ever seen his fight against Steward? I thought he was going to die in that ring, he looked like a blown up budha. I really love George nevertheless!

SnoopySmurf
04-12-2005, 09:53 AM
Foreman, in his prime, was really good at cutting off the ring from mobile fighters. Ali was the most fleet footed of heavies and he opted to do the rope-a-dope. Foreman's long legs made the ring too small even for Ali.

Great essay.

Brooks
04-13-2005, 03:28 PM
Foreman was very slow compared to todays boxers. He had tremendous power but poor hand speed. A smart fighter with good boxing skills would pick him apart. However, all he had to land was one punch and it was good night sweetheart. Lewis on his best day could beat Foreman by decision. Foreman never fought anyone with the size and reach of Lewis.

paul750
04-13-2005, 03:40 PM
Foreman was very slow compared to todays boxers. He had tremendous power but poor hand speed. A smart fighter with good boxing skills would pick him apart. However, all he had to land was one punch and it was good night sweetheart. Lewis on his best day could beat Foreman by decision. Foreman never fought anyone with the size and reach of Lewis.
Foreman was a great puncher, but he was always going to have problems with good boxers, and lennox lewis was a good boxer, but he would have beaten any slugger, no one could survive against foreman if they took the fight to him. but lennox lewis was always a smart fighter who took no risks and thats why i would favor him

dansweeney
04-13-2005, 03:58 PM
foreman would have destroyed lennox lewis, ko within 5 rounds, easy. lennox waited for the good heavys in his time period to get old then he fought them. a prime foreman kayo's lennox in one. old foreman kayos him in 5.

jaz08
02-23-2009, 11:40 AM
The old warrior i think is the best in the heavyweight categories ..because he fought all the other great heavy from the era of ali,lennox and tyson

elfag
02-23-2009, 11:51 AM
Good post, although I don't think Foreman just threw arm punches. He used his lower body and torso to generate power just like any other great puncher.


Yeah Ive heard the arm punch thing said a lot about george, but if you watch the frazier and norton KO's, when he has them hurt and is finishing them off he is jumping into his punches and getting a lot of leverage, theyre not arm punches at all. Some of them early on are arm punches but when he is finishing them he is getting good leverage. Vitali is someone who throws arm punches, cause he fights tall and doesnt put his body fully into it most of the time.

Also he wasnt that slow in the 70s, not fast either probably average. In the 90s he was slow as hell though.

rezin
07-13-2009, 09:28 PM
you forgot one thing that man makes a fine grill

haha tru indeed

them_apples
07-13-2009, 09:33 PM
He didn't get his body or weight into his punches. His leverage was so-so at best. Basically, he was an arm puncher. He first won the heavyweight title in 1973 with a devastating knockout over an undefeated undisputed champion. After retiring in March of 1977, he came back in March of 1987 after a ten year hiatus during which he didn't fight once. In November of 1994 he won the title for a second time with a one punch knockout over an undefeated champ at age 45.

His name is George Foreman, and to me he is one of the biggest physical freaks of nature in sports history. Think about it, he has just about the highest knockout percentage in heavyweight history. Yet he was an arm puncher. He's the last guy you'd want teaching your fighter how to punch, because he didn't know how from a fundamental or technical vantage point. Basically, he throws a punch like a novice slaps, only his arm has a balled fist at the end.

What George Foreman could do was punch. When you break Foreman down as a fighter, what can you really say about him? Sure he was very tough mentally and was also fearless. He had a great chin and his punching power was unmatched. His jab was a sledgehammer, and his hook and uppercut had neck-breaking power. However, all of those things, except for his mental strength and toughness, tie into his God given physical strength.

In Foreman's first 25 or so fights in the 70's, he exhibited a pretty good jab. However, once he started clubbing fighters out, he just started going for the big shot from the onset. Foreman had some boxing skills, but he was allowed to abandon them because of his power. His trainer Dick Saddler fell in love with George's power, and he cut a lot of corners when teaching him basics. Saddler's attitude was, George, go run a few miles and then go pound the heavy bag. Because there ain't a man in the world who can stand up to your punch. This was something Saddler repeated often and was proud of.

Think about it, Ali had to take a pounding before he was able to open up and fight Foreman. It's not like Ali outfought or out boxed him from start to finish. While Foreman had his strength, Ali really couldn't fight him. Had Ali not had one of the greatest chin's in heavyweight history, or not have the capacity to absorb the best body shot of any heavyweight in history, he would've lost to Foreman. It was Ali's durability and toughness that enabled him to beat Foreman, not necessarily his speed and skill as a boxer. That's why, in my opinion, Ali was the only mover or boxer who could've defeated Foreman at his peak. As tough as Tunney and Holmes were, there is no way either of them could take it to the head and body like Ali. That's why they would not have been around in the eighth round to see Foreman tire so they could out box him. I don't think they could've held the undefeated Foreman off like Ali did until he tired and wound down?


After Foreman lost to Young he retired. His first career was from June of 1969 thru March of 1977. During that time he won the title and held it for almost two years. His record when he retired was 45-2 (42). Although he fought in one of the best eras in heavyweight history, and beat an all-time great in Frazier to win the title, Foreman didn't have a clue about boxing basics. The only thing that enabled Foreman to go through the division and become champ was his strength and power that only he was blessed with at birth. Had Foreman learned how to get his body into his punches, and not been an arm puncher, it would have been illegal to allow him to fight.

Ten years after retiring, Foreman came back at age 38. During his prime in the 70's, he fought between 217-232 pounds. The second incarnation of Foreman fought between 240-267. This older version of Foreman was much slower, but fought at a much more measured pace. He fought more relaxed and loose. That's the thing that allowed him to go rounds without being exhausted. The amazing thing was although he didn't retain all the power that he had in the 70's, he still had dynamite in both hands and scored some devastating knockouts.

Four years into his comeback, Foreman fought undisputed Heavyweight Champ Evander Holyfield, who just won the title from Mike Tyson conqueror Buster Douglas. Holyfield was at his absolute physical peak at this time. Going into the Holyfield fight, Foreman was thought to have no shot and most likely would be stopped. In the bout, Foreman was out boxed and out maneuvered losing a unanimous decision. However, the strength and power of Foreman was evident throughout the bout. During the 12 rounds Foreman shook Holyfield a few times, and forced him to fight moving away. The problem Foreman had with Holyfield was simply that he was too slow to mount a sustained offensive attack.

A little over three years after losing to Holyfield, Foreman fought the man who took Holyfield's title eight month's earlier, Michael Moorer. In a fight Foreman was clearly being outfought, he scored a devastating one-punch knockout in the 10th round to win the title at age 45. Foreman's knockout of Moorer put him in the history book's as the oldest man to win the Heavyweight title. A record that still stands.

The really amazing thing about George Foreman was that the only real weapon he had was his strength and awesome power. Although he was mentally tough and determined, along with being fearless, it was his power that carried him to the Heavyweight Championship twice. Think about it, he wasn't a good boxer, he wasn't fast, and his offense was his defense. His only true weapon was his strength and power.

Five and a half years after decisioning Foreman, Holyfield was thought to be shot. In November of 1996, Holyfield fought WBA-WBC champ Mike Tyson. Holyfield went on to stop Tyson in the 11th round. In this fight, Holyfield won no less than 8 of the 10 rounds they fought before stopping Tyson in the 11th. He out fought and muscled Tyson the entire fight. This was a 30-year old Tyson who just scored impressive knockout victories in winning both title belts only months earlier. Basically, an older Holyfield controlled and out muscled a 30-year old Tyson, something he wasn't able to do versus a 42 year old Foreman when he was in his prime.

Three years after beating Tyson, Holyfield defended both of his titles versus IBF champ Lennox Lewis twice. In their first fight, Holyfield was clearly out fought by Lewis, yet was the aggressor in the fight. In the rematch six months later, a better-prepared Holyfield lost a close decision. In this fight, Holyfield was the more effective aggressor and was able to push Lewis back the whole fight. The point is a 34 year old prime Lewis wasn't able to move an eroded Holyfield around the ring like a 42 year old Foreman did. In Holyfield's fights with Foreman and Lewis, Foreman's jab forced Holyfield to retreat, something Lewis couldn't do with his big right hand and uppercuts.

Against Tyson and Lewis, an older Holyfield was more in control physically, than a younger Holyfield was versus an older Foreman. In fact, Foreman actually had Holyfield shook a few times, something neither Tyson or Lewis were able to do once.

What other former heavyweight champ could've taken off ten years, and then comeback to win boxing’s greatest prize? When Foreman came back in the late 80's, he had one weapon, just like he had in the 70's, power and strength. Foreman wasn't a great boxer at any time in his career. In the 70's he fought in a rage that was nothing more than a charge from his stool to his opponent's chin. In the late 80's and 90's, Foreman's biggest weapon was his strength and punch. Some say he was a smarter boxer, but he really just fought at a more measured pace. Basically, he just tempered his aggression. His goal was to score a knockout regardless of what version of his career you're discussing.

In the 70's, Foreman was hurt badly only by Ron Lyle, who was a terrific puncher. And Foreman was in dreadful shape in the Lyle fight. It was his first fight in 15 months after losing to Ali, unless you count the Toronto-5 exhibition, which I don't. Ali stopped him, but it was due to Foreman's severe fatigue. Against Jimmy Young he was a head case and was beaten before his hands were even wrapped. In his comeback, he wasn't hurt or close to going down once. Not by Holyfield, who hit him with over 25 unanswered punches in the ninth round of their fight. Not by Cooney, who he devastated, or Bert Cooper who was very dangerous early in the fight. Not by Morrison, who was forced to run like Carl Lewis from him. And not by Michael Moorer, who hit him at will until Foreman dropped one short right hand on his chin.

George Foreman was a physical freak of nature. Never in heavyweight history has one fighter accomplished so much, while possessing just one weapon, strength and power. I can't imagine other big punchers like Lewis, Liston, Frazier, Louis, Tyson or Marciano taking off 10 years and then coming back at age 45 and winning the title? Remember, Tyson wanted no part of Foreman in the early 90's, which I know to be an absolute fact (although some Tyson fans try to pretend it's not). Lewis never asked for him during that time. And Holyfield who did fight him, was banged around despite winning and was holding on at the end. And Holyfield says to this day that Foreman was without a doubt the strongest and best puncher he ever fought.

The prime of Foreman ended in The "20th of May" stadium on an October night in 1974. If George Foreman knew how to box and punch from a fundamental standpoint, it would've been illegal to allow him to fight.

George Foreman is definitely a physical freak of nature!

he threw arm punches when he was tired, but he sure as hell knew how to get leverage when he was fresh for the first 5 rounds. When that guy would miss his whole body would go with him.

TredKiller
07-13-2009, 09:36 PM
foreman was great, he would KO LL within 10

Benny Leonard
07-13-2009, 09:46 PM
19 year old George who had a short amateur career but still won Gold...and that is when winning Gold meant something because it was basically a short pro fight and not this point sparring crap we see today.

This is a fight:

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fight_professor
07-13-2009, 10:05 PM
Think about it, Ali had to take a pounding before he was able to open up and fight Foreman. It's not like Ali outfought or out boxed him from start to finish. While Foreman had his strength, Ali really couldn't fight him!

Much of that essay is true, except I believe Ali was ahead on the cards before the KO came. He was outfighting him with awesome counterpunching. He was winning on every card.

:boxing:

mickey malone
07-14-2009, 09:02 AM
Yes, I also think Lewis glass jaw wouldve been exposed by Foreman
The only person who exposed Lewis's chin was Lewis himself..
Both times against big punchers who he stupidly underestimated..
Not a cat in hells chance of doing it against Foreman though..
He'd comfortably DC him..

I liked the post, but Foreman aint no arm puncher!
Spent a lot of time resting on the ropes during his comeback though..
Hence all of the distance fights against mediocre opposition..

I agree he's a freak of nature, much like Hopkins.. George paved the way on how to use the ropes when you're old, & Hopkins now does the same.. A young Foreman would'a knocked em all out in the center of the ring...

TheGreatA
07-14-2009, 10:13 AM
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sonnyboyx2
07-15-2009, 07:46 AM
he is, but i prime lennox lewis would ko him. he have only strengt and than isnt enough. lennox lewis would out jab him and sooner or later ko him. but nomatter what he is definitely a physical freal of nature. ko moorer he was 45 thats strong by him. :boxing:

you gotta be joking, Foreman would crucify Lewis, Foreman had a jab 50 times better than Lewis jab, Frank Bruno easily out-jabbed Lewis as did Vitali Klitschko, i see Foreman KOing Lewis within the opening round, if McCall could poleaxe Lewis then Foreman would decapitate him... Lewis is the most overated fighter in history, he avoided almost every fighter during the 1990s who was at the top of their game, Lewis was stripped of every title belt for refusing to fight the No1 contenders, he refused because those contenders was at the top of their game and Lewis only ever fought exposed fighters or has-beens.

Grant -- exposed by Golota
Butler -- exposed as a bum
Mavrovick -- class C fighter
Bruno --- past his best days.
Tucker -- old junkie
Fortune -- class C fighter
Golota --- had panic attack in dressing room
Tua -- fattest man to ever fight for title
Jackson -- class C fighter
Mercer -- "robbed of decision"
Morrison -- HIV and on the downslide
Botha --- exposed and years past his best
Briggs --- class C fighter
Holyfield --- years past his best & robbed of 2nd fight
Tyson -- 11yrs since butchered by Douglas (has-been)

Lennox Lewis avoided Witherspoon, Bonecrusher, Page, Hide, Ruiz, Byrd, Bowe (twice), Tyson in 96, Moorer, Sanders, Wlad, Roy Jones, Vitali (rematch) and every fighter who was at the top of their game.

Abstraction
07-15-2009, 08:47 AM
Got a point.

Lewis never really faced an Elite who at the top of his game.

His best wins were against Vitali, Hasim, Bruno and Mercer (which was close in itself) imo. Maybe Grant but he became Fodder after he stepped up his level of opposition

Holyfield and Tyson were years passed their best.

mickey malone
07-15-2009, 08:57 AM
you gotta be joking, Foreman would crucify Lewis, Foreman had a jab 50 times better than Lewis jab, Frank Bruno easily out-jabbed Lewis as did Vitali Klitschko, i see Foreman KOing Lewis within the opening round, if McCall could poleaxe Lewis then Foreman would decapitate him... Lewis is the most overated fighter in history, he avoided almost every fighter during the 1990s who was at the top of their game, Lewis was stripped of every title belt for refusing to fight the No1 contenders, he refused because those contenders was at the top of their game and Lewis only ever fought exposed fighters or has-beens.

Grant -- exposed by Golota
Butler -- exposed as a bum
Mavrovick -- class C fighter
Bruno --- past his best days.
Tucker -- old junkie
Fortune -- class C fighter
Golota --- had panic attack in dressing room
Tua -- fattest man to ever fight for title
Jackson -- class C fighter
Mercer -- "robbed of decision"
Morrison -- HIV and on the downslide
Botha --- exposed and years past his best
Briggs --- class C fighter
Holyfield --- years past his best & robbed of 2nd fight
Tyson -- 11yrs since butchered by Douglas (has-been)

Lennox Lewis avoided Witherspoon, Bonecrusher, Page, Hide, Ruiz, Byrd, Bowe (twice), Tyson in 96, Moorer, Sanders, Wlad, Roy Jones, Vitali (rematch) and every fighter who was at the top of their game.
So.... In other words, he fought every genuine contender of his era, with the exception of Ridickulous Bowe who threw his belt in a trash can & **** himself all the way to KFC..
Oh.... and 80's has beens like Page, Witherspoon & Bonecrusher were way past their primes during his realm.. Hyde had already been exposed by **** arse Bowe, Sanders was too busy playing golf, Moorer had a lantern chin, Wlad was too busy getting KTFO by the golfer, & Jones would'a got nicked for speeding.. I won't even comment on Johnny Louise, or a prime Vitaly who got opened up like a baked bean can against a semi retired Lewis.. 90's Foreman would'a got KO'd 4 sure, but prime Foreman would'a been a 50/50 fight cos of his power.. Your post virtually suggests that every HW contender in the history of the sport was a bum...

BarrySlisk
07-15-2009, 09:39 AM
you gotta be joking, Foreman would crucify Lewis, Foreman had a jab 50 times better than Lewis jab, Frank Bruno easily out-jabbed Lewis as did Vitali Klitschko, i see Foreman KOing Lewis within the opening round, if McCall could poleaxe Lewis then Foreman would decapitate him...
Foreman has no defense. I think Lewis would win.

paul750
07-15-2009, 11:29 AM
you gotta be joking, Foreman would crucify Lewis, Foreman had a jab 50 times better than Lewis jab, Frank Bruno easily out-jabbed Lewis as did Vitali Klitschko, i see Foreman KOing Lewis within the opening round, if McCall could poleaxe Lewis then Foreman would decapitate him... Lewis is the most overated fighter in history, he avoided almost every fighter during the 1990s who was at the top of their game, Lewis was stripped of every title belt for refusing to fight the No1 contenders, he refused because those contenders was at the top of their game and Lewis only ever fought exposed fighters or has-beens.

Grant -- exposed by Golota
Butler -- exposed as a bum
Mavrovick -- class C fighter
Bruno --- past his best days.
Tucker -- old junkie
Fortune -- class C fighter
Golota --- had panic attack in dressing room
Tua -- fattest man to ever fight for title
Jackson -- class C fighter
Mercer -- "robbed of decision"
Morrison -- HIV and on the downslide
Botha --- exposed and years past his best
Briggs --- class C fighter
Holyfield --- years past his best & robbed of 2nd fight
Tyson -- 11yrs since butchered by Douglas (has-been)

Lennox Lewis avoided Witherspoon, Bonecrusher, Page, Hide, Ruiz, Byrd, Bowe (twice), Tyson in 96, Moorer, Sanders, Wlad, Roy Jones, Vitali (rematch) and every fighter who was at the top of their game.

Anybody can put a biased slant on a fighter's career. The same could be done with Foreman. Saying he [Lewis] avoided those fighters at the bottom just makes a mockery of your own post. It was Bowe and Tyson who avoided Lewis. Are you honestly for real? He would have mopped the floor with most of those. Foreman was a brutal puncher, but he had serious flaws, which was why he lost even during his prime. Lewis had flaws, but they were less serious. One of them was his lack of focus, which certainly came back when fighting a dangerous opponent, and the other was his suspect chin. The chin only appeared to let him down when he didn't take his opponents seriously. He took plenty of shots throughout his career and was ok.

The Mercer fight was close and Mercer probably should have won, but the minority who say he was lucky in the second Holyfield fight are wrong. It was closer than the first, certainly, but Lewis still won. He really should have knocked Evander out in those fights anyway. Holyfield had a good chin, but Lewis could have stopped him late on had he really went for it. The Holy fights are probably as big a black mark as his losses are IMO.

That being said, Lewis looked superb at his best, and he must be regarded as a serious, serious heavyweight at his best. Foreman had the power to bust Lewis up, but his sloppy technique and fairly slow hand speed would give Lewis the ability to outbox him. That's not to say Foreman couldn't knock him out. But it's by no means an easy fight to call. ''Lennox Lewis avoided Witherspoon, Bonecrusher, Page, Hide, Ruiz, Byrd, Bowe (twice), Tyson in 96, Moorer, Sanders, Wlad, Roy Jones.''

Every one of those fighters highlighted probably wouldn't have given Lewis any tougher a fight than Vitali did. And when you consider Lewis was older and not in top shape when he fought Klitschko, that really says it all.

sonnyboyx2
07-15-2009, 02:04 PM
So.... In other words, he fought every genuine contender of his era, with the exception of Ridickulous Bowe who threw his belt in a trash can & **** himself all the way to KFC..
Oh.... and 80's has beens like Page, Witherspoon & Bonecrusher were way past their primes during his realm.. Hyde had already been exposed by **** arse Bowe, Sanders was too busy playing golf, Moorer had a lantern chin, Wlad was too busy getting KTFO by the golfer, & Jones would'a got nicked for speeding.. I won't even comment on Johnny Louise, or a prime Vitaly who got opened up like a baked bean can against a semi retired Lewis.. 90's Foreman would'a got KO'd 4 sure, but prime Foreman would'a been a 50/50 fight cos of his power.. Your post virtually suggests that every HW contender in the history of the sport was a bum...
Lewis ducked Riddick Bowe in 93 by demanding 50/50 purse split and options on Bowes next 5 fights should Lewis lose... what Lewis done was deliberately "Price himself out" of the fight knowing Bowe would be stripped of the WBC belt.. Lewis turned down a then career highest purse of $12 million in 95 to fight Bowe, Lewis turned down $15 million and a gauranteed shot at the title in 96 against Tyson, he accepted a meagre $2 million step-a-side money from Holyfield and waited another 5yrs for Tyson to self-destruct even more... Witherspoon was a dangerous contender from 94 - 96, Hide was WBO champ and called out Lewis almost every week on British TV... Sanders called out Lewis throughout the late 90s.. Moorer and Foreman was both world champions in the mid 90s but Lewis wanted nothing to do with them.. Lewis turned down the largest purse in professional sports history, a staggering $35 million + PPV from HBO to fight WBA champion Roy Jones jr. ... as for John Ruiz well Lewis was stripped of the belt rather than fight the guy who had beaten Holyfield twice and put "The Real Deal" on the canvas, something Lewis never came near to doing.

boxingbuff
07-15-2009, 04:11 PM
I would have loved to see the Ali-Forman fight in a normal size(20-24 Ft) ring.

Forman fought Ali in a 16 foot ring! That's very very small.Most Championship fights are in 20-24 Ft Rings. The padding on the ring floor was also very soft,so Ali could not dance and fight his fight.

Ali's last two fights against Norton and Frazier he danced 12 rounds in both fights.I'm sure he would have been dancing against Foreman in a 20-24 foot ring.Especially with a normal padded ring floor.

I'm not saying Ali would have won,in fact he may have got lucky with the 16 foot ring with a very soft padded ring.He had no choice but to go to the ropes.I believe in a normal 20-24 foot ring Ali would have won the first five rounds dancing like he did against Norton the 2nd fight.

Who would have won? I don't know.Ali said Foreman cut off the ring better than any fighter he ever fought! So would Foreman wear down a dancing Ali? Or would Foreman run out of gas first?

What do you guys think?

mickey malone
07-15-2009, 04:37 PM
Lewis ducked Riddick Bowe in 93 by demanding 50/50 purse split and options on Bowes next 5 fights should Lewis lose... what Lewis done was deliberately "Price himself out" of the fight knowing Bowe would be stripped of the WBC belt.. Lewis turned down a then career highest purse of $12 million in 95 to fight Bowe, Lewis turned down $15 million and a gauranteed shot at the title in 96 against Tyson, he accepted a meagre $2 million step-a-side money from Holyfield and waited another 5yrs for Tyson to self-destruct even more... Witherspoon was a dangerous contender from 94 - 96, Hide was WBO champ and called out Lewis almost every week on British TV... Sanders called out Lewis throughout the late 90s.. Moorer and Foreman was both world champions in the mid 90s but Lewis wanted nothing to do with them.. Lewis turned down the largest purse in professional sports history, a staggering $35 million + PPV from HBO to fight WBA champion Roy Jones jr. ... as for John Ruiz well Lewis was stripped of the belt rather than fight the guy who had beaten Holyfield twice and put "The Real Deal" on the canvas, something Lewis never came near to doing.
Was this b4 or after the trash bin..? Besides there was no love lost between the 2, & Lewis had already beaten him easy in the olympics, so I suppose there wasn't much point really.. Sanders was never active enough to earn a shot, & didn't Witherspoon lose to Mercer around this time? Moorer & Foreman fought each other, & I can remember Foreman, stating that he'd much rather fight Frank Bruno as opposed to Lewis.. With the various purses on offer, one could hardly accuse him of being greedy, especially to Jones.. What did he do to deserve a shot?

Dynamite Glove
07-15-2009, 04:50 PM
he is, but i prime lennox lewis would ko him. he have only strengt and than isnt enough. lennox lewis would out jab him and sooner or later ko him. but nomatter what he is definitely a physical freal of nature. ko moorer he was 45 thats strong by him. :boxing:

How could you say that. An old version of Foreman would defeat a prime Lewis. It's because Lennox is mentally weaker than Foreman, and also had about a third of the chin compared to Foreman. Lewis would go down early in the fight, if George were to be knocked down by Lewis, he would get up..can you say the same for Lewis

sonnyboyx2
07-16-2009, 12:54 PM
Was this b4 or after the trash bin..? Besides there was no love lost between the 2, & Lewis had already beaten him easy in the olympics, so I suppose there wasn't much point really.. Sanders was never active enough to earn a shot, & didn't Witherspoon lose to Mercer around this time? Moorer & Foreman fought each other, & I can remember Foreman, stating that he'd much rather fight Frank Bruno as opposed to Lewis.. With the various purses on offer, one could hardly accuse him of being greedy, especially to Jones.. What did he do to deserve a shot?Witherspoon was a very `live` contender up unto his loss to Mercer, and Bowe was up for a fight with Lewis all his career but Lewis always "priced himself out" of it, as for Lewis beating Bowe in the Olympics, it means nothing, Tyrell Biggs beat both Lewis and Tyson in the Olympics yet was beaten by both in the pro ranks, Bowe improved tremendously under Eddie Futch as a professional and the Lewis camp knew it, .. Lewis wanted nothing to do with Foreman or Moorer during the mid 90s