View Full Version : Why We Never Saw Foreman-Tyson


tommyhearns804
04-01-2005, 08:45 AM
Foreman said he came back to reclaim the title he lost to Muhammad Ali back in October of 1974. After beating Zouski, Foreman fought on a schedule that had him in the ring just about every other month. He would constantly tell anyone with a microphone after each fight that, he came back because he knew he could beat Mike Tyson and wanted to fight him for the title. Through Big George's first ten to fifteen fights, he was laughed at for the quality of the fighters he was fighting and wasn't taken seriously. Foreman never made excuses for them and admitted that he was fighting guys who had no chance of beating him. He said that he wanted to get used to being back in the ring and was in no hurry. In 1987, Foreman fought five times; in 1988, he fought nine times and in 1989, he fought five times. After 19 fights, Foreman was 19-0 (18). During the course of those 19 fights, Foreman only fought two name fighters: former light heavyweight and cruiserweight champ Dwight Muhammad Qwai (formerly Dwight Braxton), and fringe contender Bert Cooper, stopping both.

On January 15, 1990, Foreman fought former heavyweight title challenger, the hard-hitting Gerry Cooney. Cooney was making a comeback after not fighting in almost two and a half years. Cooney viewed Foreman as an easy win and figured he could capitalize off of Foreman's name and jump to the front of the heavyweight picture with an impressive victory. Going into the fight neither Foreman or Cooney were perceived to be a real threat to any of the top heavyweights in the world, let alone Tyson who was just 23 and the unbeaten, undisputed champ.

By January of 1990, Foreman had built up such a following and fan base that the Foreman-Cooney fight was only seen on PPV. It took Foreman less than two full rounds to mutilate Cooney sending him back into permanent retirement. Foreman displayed accuracy and devastating power in stopping Cooney. It wasn't until after Foreman's destruction of Cooney that he was taken as a serious title contender. Before the boxing world had time to digest Foreman's showing against Cooney, it was dealt an even bigger shock 26 days later.

On February 10 1990, 42-1 underdog James "Buster" Douglas literally turned the boxing world upside down when he traveled to Tokyo and knocked out undisputed heavyweight champ Mike Tyson. Don King promoted Tyson, at the time of his defeat. After Tyson's loss to Douglas, King wanted to have Tyson fight in a high profile fight. He figured a spectacular knockout win over a name opponent would get Tyson back on track to being the man in the heavyweight picture again. King thought he found the perfect opponent in Foreman who was all over television after beating Cooney. Foreman never passed up an opportunity to take a shot at Tyson and throw out challenges to him while doing the talk show circuit.

In the subsequent months following Foreman's victory over Cooney and Douglas' upset of Tyson, there was much talk of a Foreman-Tyson fight. It was a potential fight that captured the public's imagination, and not just the boxing public. In fact, there were several reports that the fight was signed and about to be announced. ESPN Sportscenter devoted numerous segments on the fight assuming it was going to happen. Shortly thereafter, there was an announcement that Foreman and Tyson were going to fight on the same card. In late April of 1990, it was announced that Foreman and Tyson would be fighting a co-main event on June 16 to be broadcast on HBO. Foreman's opponent was Adilson Rodrigues, who was ranked in the top ten by two of the major sanctioning bodies. Tyson's opponent was the unranked Henry Tillman. Tillman was best known for beating Tyson twice in the 1984 Olympic trials.

At this time, Evander Holyfield was getting ready for his sixth fight as a heavyweight against Seamus McDonagh on June 1 in Atlantic City. On the day of the Holyfield-McDonagh fight, I went to grab something to eat with Georgie Benton, Lou Duva and Bobby Goodman. At the time, Goodman was, and still is, Don King's matchmaker. I've known Benton for many years, through him I met Duva, and was introduced to Goodman a couple weeks before Tyson fought Larry Holmes at the Convention Center in Atlantic City in January 1988.

While we were eating, Benton said, "Bobby, what's up with Foreman and Tyson, how come they're not fighting each other on the 16th? Isn't that the fight that King was trying to make?" He said, " Georgie,You'll never believe this but, ****in' Tyson is scared ****less of Foreman and wants no part of him. I was there when Don was trying to make the fight. He was telling Tyson that Foreman represented huge money, plus he was old and slow and would be no problem. Tyson got up and screamed at King saying, 'I'm not fightin' that ****in' animal, if you love the mother****er so much, you fight him!'"

Goodman stated that Tyson said Foreman was much better than people thought, and was a dangerous fight for any of the top heavyweights. Goodman proceeded to explain how Tyson was calling Foreman a big con man, and explained that the grandpop act was just a front. He said Tyson saw Foreman as trying to set up the boxing world into thinking he was a pushover, knowing that he really wasn't. Tyson said Foreman was a wolf in sheep's clothing. Goodman continued to say that after seeing Tyson's response to King trying to push him into a fight with Foreman, he had no doubt that Tyson had fear of Foreman. He also said that from that point on, he felt that if Foreman and Tyson ever fought, Foreman would knock Tyson out!

Throughout the lunch Goodman, Duva, Benton, and myself shared stories and thoughts on the fight game. Out of the blue Goodman said, "Oh I remember why else Tyson wanted no parts of Foreman. He said that King had found out from Steve Lott that Tyson and Cus D'Amato used to watch the Frazier-Foreman fight over and over." He continued saying that Tyson loved that fight because he was awed by Foreman's power and Frazier's toughness and how he kept getting up after every knockdown. He also said that Lott told King that Cus sat alongside Tyson saying, "It's suicide against Foreman if you're short and fight a swarming attacking style like Marciano or Frazier," never figuring that Foreman could be a possible Tyson opponent down the road. He said that Cus said the only fighters who had a chance against Foreman were, tall rangy fighters who could fight him from a distance while moving away from him, and no way any swarmer could beat Foreman by going to him.

Those are the words of the man who actually had a hand in trying to make the Foreman-Tyson fight, and was in the room when the negotiations broke down. Over the years, I've talked to many people who were involved with Tyson and Foreman and they all verify the story, every one of them. I have also talked to people who were involved with promoting Foreman, including Ron Weathers who promoted a few of Foreman's comeback fights. He told me the same story. The fight didn't happen because of Tyson being fearful of losing to George. Bob Arum also said that he dreamed of making Foreman-Tyson. He said it would be huge money and that Foreman would stop Tyson easier than he did Frazier. This is something Arum often repeated to the press. I have also heard this from George's brother Roy who was his business manager. I co-hosted a boxing show with Roy in Atlantic City for a little less than two months and this was a regular topic when discussing Tyson. Anyone who covered boxing at the time or knew any of the involved parties knew of this. It's not breaking news.

It is absolutely a fact that Mike Tyson was afraid to fight 41-year-old George Foreman--the same Foreman who Evander Holyfield would fight and beat in April of 1991. I have not a doubt that had Foreman and Tyson fought anytime between 1990 and 1997 that Foreman would have knocked Tyson out inside of three rounds. Tyson just has nothing to beat Foreman with; his edge in hand speed would have been a non-factor. He can't beat him by backing away, and he would have gotten his head handed to him if he brought the fight to Foreman. In addition, Foreman was bigger, stronger, tougher and hit harder. Not to mention the fact that Foreman had a better chin and no fear or doubt, unlike Tyson, who was full of fear and self-doubt.

Think about it, Foreman-Tyson was the biggest fight that could have been made in 1990. Foreman was perceived to be an easy fight for Tyson, and it would have been his biggest payday to date. There can only be one reason why Tyson didn't fight Foreman, and that's because he feared losing to him.

I haven't a morsel of a doubt that Tyson just doesn't match up with Foreman, and he knows it. If Tyson of 1990 was afraid of an old Foreman, think how petrified he would of been of a prime Foreman, the one who stared down both Joe Frazier and Muhammad Ali in 1973 and 1974.

Writers Note

The above account is of a quick get to together for something to eat between myself and the above mentioned parties. The only thing I can't recall for certain is if it took place after the Holyfield-McDonagh final press conference, or the weigh in? However, the above quotes are just that, quotes. Everything there is exactly how the conversation unfolded. Whether you chose to believe it or not is up to you. All I can say is that is exactly what was said. To disbelieve this you have to assume a lot of people close to both Foreman and Tyson are lying. Remember, Tyson is a student of boxing and boxing history. If there ever was a fighter who understood styles and match ups, its Tyson. He was smart enough to know that Foreman was all wrong for him. You can talk about his speed and defense for the next 100 years. The fact of the matter is he had nothing to beat Foreman with! Sometimes the truth is very hard to believe and accept, but the truth is the truth. And the truth is, Mike Tyson was fearful of fighting George Foreman in 1990.

prtynacan
04-03-2005, 08:39 PM
I agree with Mike's assessment - although I think he would do much better than he believed against a 41 year old Foreman. I always wonder how Liston - Foreman would turn out.

The_One77
04-09-2005, 08:32 PM
i'm quiet sure tyson would of beat an old foreman, after all tommy morrison did it, why can't tyson.
And why wouldn't his speed be a factor, foreman at that time was slow, sluggish, and his hands were too low.

leff
04-10-2005, 09:00 AM
I agree with Mike's assessment - although I think he would do much better than he believed against a 41 year old Foreman. I always wonder how Liston - Foreman would turn out.
liston- foremann would have been a good fight, guess the age difference was to big.

now why didnt liston ever fight marciano, that would have been hell of a fight.

Komandos
04-10-2005, 11:36 AM
a big fight

tysonortiz
04-12-2005, 03:40 AM
ridiculous...tyson wouldve dominated.

Bubba3000
04-14-2005, 10:57 AM
It is absolutely a fact that Mike Tyson was afraid to fight 41-year-old George Foreman--the same Foreman who Evander Holyfield would fight and beat in April of 1991. I have not a doubt that had Foreman and Tyson fought anytime between 1990 and 1997 that Foreman would have knocked Tyson out inside of three rounds.

That's the craziest thing I've ever heard. You're honestly saying that George Foreman of 15 years ago would have beaten Mike Tyson of 15 years ago? Brother, I'm not even sure if Foreman from the early 70s would have beaten Tyson from the early 90s. It's a tough call, and I'd give my right arm to see it.

Kid Achilles
04-14-2005, 11:58 AM
It would pick Foreman. Larger, stronger, and with a better chin and more power. The biggest advantages IMO are that Foreman's heart was bigger and he paced himself better than Tyson. He would have pulled Mike into deep water and drown him.

Bubba3000
04-14-2005, 12:45 PM
I'm not even going to disagree with that, because I understand what a force George was in those days, and I believe he had the power to knock out anyone from any era. As I said, it's a tough call. Foreman in his prime against Tyson in his prime? Unbelievable. That might be my dream match right there. I think in his prime, Tyson's hand speed, thick neck, and THAT BOMB would still give Foreman a run for it.

But like I said, if this match had actually happened in the early 90s, Tyson would have destroyed Foreman.

TheGreat1
04-18-2005, 03:32 PM
i'm quiet sure tyson would of beat an old foreman, after all tommy morrison did it, why can't tyson.
And why wouldn't his speed be a factor, foreman at that time was slow, sluggish, and his hands were too low.

because tyson wouldn't run from Foreman all nite like Tommoy did.

smokeyjackson
04-18-2005, 03:49 PM
tyson easily he would be to fast for big george

XionComrade
04-18-2005, 08:22 PM
I gotta go with Foreman on this one, He hit harder than Tyson, although not quite as viscious as Tyson, Tyson sure wouldn't knock him out in the first round though!

Ceratogyrus
04-29-2005, 03:09 PM
Foreman old or young had the perfect style for Tyson. Remember how Tyson mentally fell to pieces when Holyfield started shoving him around the ring.
Foreman adopted this strategy all the time to create punching room. He would have taken Tyson punches and stood his ground.
I think Tyson was a great fighter but styles make fights and Foreman had the perfect antidote to Tyson.

.::EnRiQuE::.
04-29-2005, 08:52 PM
if foreman lasted past the fourth round he would beat tyson by KO. the key to that fight would be how long would tyson's headmovement and handspeed last. tyson's fast combos would devastate foreman inside. I prolly would see tyson dominating early 3-4 rounds but foreman KO'ing him in like rounds 6-9.

pug1986
05-01-2005, 09:15 PM
That is awesome. I know I've heard the story from a few boxing people (including Kevin rooney) and believed it to some extent but that story reinforces my belief in it. thanks

GROCERYGETTERS
05-11-2005, 02:27 AM
I would pick Foreman because he is never intimidated and Tysons intimidation wouldn't be a factor. All Tyson's opponents were afraid to be Kayoed and for good reason. Foreman was a monster and though he wasn't the best boxer, he could hurt anybody. Tyson has ALWAYS had problems with bigger strong guys. Foreman could back Tyson up, which negates much of what Tyson likes to do and basically punish Mike. I think Mike may have some moments but Foreman's heart and size are too much to overcome.

buff_mike10
06-09-2005, 12:17 AM
I would pick Foreman because he is never intimidated and Tysons intimidation wouldn't be a factor. All Tyson's opponents were afraid to be Kayoed and for good reason. Foreman was a monster and though he wasn't the best boxer, he could hurt anybody. Tyson has ALWAYS had problems with bigger strong guys. Foreman could back Tyson up, which negates much of what Tyson likes to do and basically punish Mike. I think Mike may have some moments but Foreman's heart and size are too much to overcome.
Tyson did beat alot of bigger stronger guys, he actually liked fighting bigger guys. Morrison beat Foreman by backing up and punching, Tyson never backed up. Tyson beat some big guys like Frank Bruno but i think Foreman would have got him mentally. Tyson would have felt beat before the fight started, otherwise Tyson would have no problem.

sonofisis
06-10-2005, 03:06 PM
foreman forever!!!!

TysonDamato86
06-10-2005, 06:37 PM
You know what, that was a great read. I think it was the best information I have ever read regarding the Tyson v Forman fight that never happend. I have a hard time believing though that Foreman would have gave Tyson as much trouble as Mike thought he would. I mean hell yes big George could punch, but so could Mike and Tyson was also a hell of a lot faster not to mention a lot younger. Tysons handspeed was a HELL OF A LOT faster than Tommy Morrisons and I think Tyson would have stopped Foreman in 7.

madmadworld
06-10-2005, 09:10 PM
thanks for the info on this no fight.
forman would win hands down.

another fight i thought would have happened back then for the money was forman vs holmes anyone know about why that did not happen ?

tommyhearns804
06-15-2005, 03:40 PM
If tyson could of won then why didnt he fight foreman?And the lame excuse well if tommy morisson could beat foreman then tyson could.well if a old washed up holyfield and a bum like buster douglas could knock him out then foreman could of easier.
morisson could box going backward tyson couldnt.his game was to jump on you if you were a bum and try to take you out.but tyson never knocked out a world class fighter.he knew he couldnt handle foremans power or hurt him so he ducked him.tyson fan boys are probably the worse fans in boxing period.you make excuse for this raping piece of trash all the time.tyson knows tyson better than you do.tyson knew he couldnt beat bowe so he ducked him tyson knew he couldnt beat foreman so he ducked him tyson payed lewis so he didnt have to fight him at first and then when he did fight him he was destroyed.tyson=bum foreman=all time great

Warhawk46
06-17-2005, 06:32 PM
This is interesting. I have read this article several times, and it has been disproven by other sources. I suggest whomever is interested take a trip over to ************* and read the topic, which was covered over there recently.

There are a couple reasons why Foreman-Tyson was never made. The largest being that Foreman did not deserve the shot, by any means. Tyson went on to face Donovan Ruddock, the #2 contender in all three major sanctioning bodies (Tyson was #1) and then was sent to prison before a fight with the champion Holyfield materialized. Foreman was thought of as more of a joke at the point the fight was to be made (according the that article). His comeback, up till that point was a media creation, and he did not warrant a shot at a man who fought the #2 and then was going to fight the champion.

Seriously, guys if you want to read more on this matter, check out...
http://boards.*************.com/index.php?showtopic=43263&st=0&hl=foreman-tyson

NeoMorpheus
06-24-2005, 06:30 AM
1. I have heard the story before as well. I remember reading about in Boxing Monthly, the UK publication back in '91/'92, when the fight was still being discussed widely.

2. I absolutely DO believe there is substance to the allegations that Tyson might have been a little intimidated by Big George. Remember - this was not the brash, arrogant Tyson of 1985-1989. This was a post-Douglas Tyson.

Tyson had already shown an aversion to big, hard-punching heavyweights with solid whiskers before after his experiences against the likes of Green, Smith and Tucker.

3. Would Big George have beaten Tyson? Hard to tell. 2 points to note;

(a) Post-Douglas Tyson had decline significantly enough for a big, strong, hard-punching, albeit slow Foreman to withstand the inevitable early onsalught and then slowly chisel away at Tyson's confidence and finally stop him late.

(b) Tyson's work ethic without Rooney was already pathetic at this time and I doubt he would have had the staying power to do what was needed to beat Foreman even at this stage in Foreman's career. Clearly, the way to beat Foreman was to fight an industrious, clever fight keeping him at bay by punching almost insistently over 12 rounds. A KO, even for a ferocious puncher like Tyson, was always going to be unlikely.

4. My take? Foreman TKO 10.

RoyFlapsHisLips
06-24-2005, 06:35 AM
I suggest whomever is interested take a trip over to ************* and read the topic, which was covered over there recently.

Good luck....

Slipx
06-24-2005, 06:53 AM
i knew tysons ***** ass was afraid of foreman, ****ing young man in his prime running from an old man, thats some funny ****. i always knew this and never knew any of the facts, i just know georges personality and the way he fights and mikes personality and the way he fights, and theres no excuse for them not fighting, except mike punking out like the little self righteous ***** he is

ive always said george foreman was the greatest heavyweight of all time.

+k to OP

Slipx
06-24-2005, 06:59 AM
I agree with Mike's assessment - although I think he would do much better than he believed against a 41 year old Foreman. I always wonder how Liston - Foreman would turn out.

name one fighter that has stood up to tyson and has a decent jab and you just named every time tyson lost.

foreman not only had iron will, but also the most powerful jab in the history of boxing

phil" the hitman "manny
08-03-2005, 08:56 PM
Even if its not true its one hell of a story.

Pariah21388
09-11-2005, 12:03 AM
Tyson would have destroyed an older foreman like he did holmes but foreman in his prime during the 70's may have been better than tyson due to his awkward style

catskills23
09-11-2005, 04:10 PM
88 Tyson beats any version of foreman , foreman even said so after tyson knocked out spinks .

Warhawk46
09-12-2005, 08:59 PM
Muhammed Ali also stated this. Both fighters recognized the absolute technical brilliance Prime Tyson displayed. He had outstanding defense, something he lost after giving the Catskills Team the boot.

Basically, anyone who says Iron Mike would have gotten his ass handed to him by some of the old time greats is full of unobjective bull****. Would Mike have beaten Ali, Foreman, Louis, etc? Maybe, maybe not. But to ignore that Tyson matches up as well as anyone who ever fought is not fair to his greatness as a fighter.

Everyone seems to have forgotten who Tyson used to be. They are all reminded of his prison sentences, his post-prison career (blatant and unabashed marketing to milk the fans from their hard-earned money; by this point he was so far removed from his former greatness). But there was a time when he was the total package: determination, power, incredible speed, quick feet, ability to punch from every angle, nearly perfect defense, awesome skills...

XionComrade
09-12-2005, 09:35 PM
Tyson did beat alot of bigger stronger guys, he actually liked fighting bigger guys. Morrison beat Foreman by backing up and punching, Tyson never backed up. Tyson beat some big guys like Frank Bruno but i think Foreman would have got him mentally. Tyson would have felt beat before the fight started, otherwise Tyson would have no problem.

Bigger guys? Foreman was 250lbs during the comeback! He was also 6'5"!

Their wasn't even anyone as strong as Foreman when Tyson was fighting, not Tyson or anyone else, noone cept Foreman that is!

Imira
09-15-2005, 01:05 AM
I have read this same account. I've also looked into the other reasons that the fight wasn't made. My take on it is this, first of all, while it's true that Foreman wasn't the number one contender, he was an opponent who met with public approval. Second, the story is backed up by Frank Lotierzo and Bobby Benson and I'm quite loath to believe that they would have much to gain from lying. Especially Benson. Third, when it comes down to it, Foreman has yet to be beaten by a swarmer/slugger and Tyson would knows that. I'm not going to say that Tyson was terrified, but I can say that Tyson, being the student of the sport that he is would not exactly be quick to step into the ring given the risk involved.

chimpy
10-24-2005, 04:53 PM
Because, Cus warned Tyson to "never" get in the ring against Big George. No fighter coming forward ever prevailed aginst George. Cus knew that, he also knew what we now all know-Tyson had more than a little bit of dog in him. Any thug who would punch out an old lady, has some measure of yellow running through his veins-Cus was no dummy

-GBGQ-
10-24-2005, 05:07 PM
My trainer was telling me that Mike wanted no part of Foreman.

He's old school but he was telling me that Foreman would have ate Tyson alive.

Warhawk46
10-24-2005, 07:39 PM
Possibly a prime Foreman might have, but certainly not the old version Tyson would have fought.

Get real guys, and by the way, the story has been disproven. I posted about that prior. If you checkout another forum, not gonna mention it, but it has a link in there that validates what I have said.

DuncanJL
10-28-2005, 06:26 PM
what a story. i love the part about Cus beating it into Tyson's head about short heavys against George. That was some funny ****

Dempsey 1919
10-31-2005, 03:29 PM
the part about tyson getting killed 'cause his style was similar to frazier made sense, but i don't understand why tyson would'nt fight foreman when he was old. he would have had a better chance than frazier in 1973, plus it would have given tyson the chance to prove cus wrong and to acheive greatness, at least a little greatness.

habZ
10-31-2005, 03:32 PM
No heart at all, thats why he isnt considered to be one of the top fighters of all time.

TuPrincipe
10-31-2005, 03:57 PM
Tin Mike was a *****. He would of got his ass beat by Foreman. Tyson had NO balls to fight anyone, he was just as bad as JCC he fought guys with no pulses.

This is Mike Tysons career.
Lennox Lewis hammers and beats up Tin Mike twice: When both were 17 and when both were 36.

James Tillis actually beats Tin Mike, age 19, but loses the decision because of a deducted point.

Evander holyfield hammers and beats up Tin Mike, age 36, twice.

James Douglas hammers and beats up Tin Mike, age 24.

So Tin Mike gets hammered and beat up at every age: 17, 24, and 36. Great all-time champion this Tin Mike. Yeah...right!!

Out of the total of 34 rounds Tin Mike fought with Douglas, Holyfield, and Lewis, Tin Mike won, and this is stretching it, maybe 3 rounds. One of the greats. Yeah...right!!

Tin Mike had no footwork, no defense, no heart, and couldn't throw a combination. The only asset he possessed was power. And his marketing team marketed that one asset to the hilt to the gullible public. And they bought it hook, line, and sinker. And sadly, some of them probably still do.

In conclusion, Tin Mike fought when the heavyweight division was arguably the weakest division in history. If Tin Mike had fought in the 1960s, he wouldn't have been
rated in the Top 10.

Therefore, Tin Mike Tyson is the most over-rated fighter of all-time.

For god's sake, his amateur career was 16 and 5. Tyson was prone to crying before fights, and it was reported that when Lewis beat the piss out of Tyson in the ams, Tyson kicked him out of his gym.

Dempsey 1919
10-31-2005, 04:11 PM
mike tyson is the most wasted talent in the history of professional sports, bar none. if the catskill team stayed, he would definetely have been an all-time great. the problem is he wanted to do things his way and his way only, and that does not work that way in america. he has no heart, or desire. after his loss to kevin mcbride in 2005, tyson announced his retirement. a reporter asked how his fans would feel about him ending his career. tyson smiled and said, "Come on. My career ended in 1990." at least give him credit for knowing that much. but if you get to the root of the problem, tyson's career ended with the replacement of the catskill handlers! they wanted nothing but the best for their young prospect, but he just couldn't see that. he brought all his troubles on himself.

TuPrincipe
10-31-2005, 04:13 PM
He is the most overated fighter ever. He will go down in history as one of the greatest ever, but he is just a media creation. He lost to EVERY SINGLE guy who stood up to him, and once you stuck a jab in his face he was done.

He only know how to beat up C-level guys. Once he fought the big boys, he was manhandled. He was just a one-trick pony.

Tyson's career-defining moment (a positive one) was knocking out a light-heavweight. Without anyone else to measure him aganist, I don't think it's fair to put him in the same league with someone like an ali, frazier, marciano, or louis, as they showed aganist elite competition that they were great. Tyson may have been, but I believe that the man who folded aganist holyfield was the same man who fought spinks, except spinks never tested him.

Sorry Tyson followers, but your hero isn't all what he is cracked up to be.

KidBlackie
11-01-2005, 07:12 AM
[[[He is the most overated fighter ever. He will go down in history as one of the greatest ever, but he is just a media creation. He lost to EVERY SINGLE guy who stood up to him, and once you stuck a jab in his face he was done.]]]
===========================

You don't even know where Tyson rates. Facts are, you have no facts. Tubbs, Tucker, Thomas, and Page were excellent fighters with fine jabs. In fact, Holmes ducked Tubbs, Thomas and Page. Tyson knocked em out like they were nothing.

Tyson was done when he signed with King and stopped training. He was the most destructive and dominant fighter anyone had ever seen to that point. His legacy is such that guys like Williams and McBride get title shots 15 yrs later just because they beat a Tyson who's only able to go a journeyman's 14-6 since signing with King over that time.

And, yeah, Tyson ducked Foreman, but Foreman didn't reestablish himself in the division until AFTER Tyson had signed with King. IBROs recent alltime heavy rankings still list Tyson in their top 10.

SnoopySmurf
11-01-2005, 09:45 AM
I often wondered about these two big names fighting each other. Everytime I do, I still see images of Frazier coming in like Tyson and getting caught from sneaky uppercut or downward jab (remember, Foreman can KO people with a grazing jab - it's got 270 pounds of human muscle pushing that fist).

It's all speculation. But here's my opinion, Tyson's speed and youth would have carried him to a UD.

As far as the article goes, Tyson doesn't speak like that. I can't imagine him using the phrase "I would never fight that animal....." Let's get serious. That ain't ghetto speak. Perhaps the man was paraphrasing Tyson....so who knows, eh?

TuPrincipe
11-01-2005, 05:50 PM
[[[He is the most overated fighter ever. He will go down in history as one of the greatest ever, but he is just a media creation. He lost to EVERY SINGLE guy who stood up to him, and once you stuck a jab in his face he was done.]]]
===========================

You don't even know where Tyson rates. Facts are, you have no facts. Tubbs, Tucker, Thomas, and Page were excellent fighters with fine jabs. In fact, Holmes ducked Tubbs, Thomas and Page. Tyson knocked em out like they were nothing.

Tyson was done when he signed with King and stopped training. He was the most destructive and dominant fighter anyone had ever seen to that point. His legacy is such that guys like Williams and McBride get title shots 15 yrs later just because they beat a Tyson who's only able to go a journeyman's 14-6 since signing with King over that time.

And, yeah, Tyson ducked Foreman, but Foreman didn't reestablish himself in the division until AFTER Tyson had signed with King. IBROs recent alltime heavy rankings still list Tyson in their top 10.

Did you even read my other parts to my post? In a sport where you are measured on achievments IN THE RING, Tyson didn't have much. He was first undisputed champ ever and youngest but in arguably the weakest division ever, even to date. He beat Holmes, but Holmes was ANCIENT and way out of his prime. The tyson that fought holyfield and douglas was in his prime, and he got manhandled both fights. In all his big fights, it can be argued that he only won 4 rounds, and thats being generous.

Please don't call Tubbs, Tucker and the other guys excellent fighters please.

Mike Tyson Jr.
11-01-2005, 06:51 PM
tyson didnt want to fight him beacuse
he respects the old man simple as that

KidBlackie
11-01-2005, 08:31 PM
[[[Did you even read my other parts to my post? In a sport where you are measured on achievments IN THE RING, Tyson didn't have much. He was first undisputed champ ever and youngest but in arguably the weakest division ever, even to date. He beat Holmes, but Holmes was ANCIENT and way out of his prime.]]]
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Facts is you don't have any facts. Tyson has the 5th most title wins in heavy history, most of them before he was 23. Tyson was the only fighter to beat Spinks and the only one to KO both Spinks and Holmes, both HOFers, and he did it EASILY! You say Holmes was past his prime, but he was 21-3 after this bout and fought for 2 more decades against bigger stronger fighters including two title matches that he went the distance in.

ALI came up in a weak division, not Tyson. If it wasn't for Frazier, Foreman, and Norton during his comeback, Ali wouldn't have ever beat a prime great and still had a half dozen controversial fights. Go read the ********* tribute to D'amato today. They call Tyson the most destructive fighter in history. Those aren't my words. IBRO historians rank him in the top 10. Those ain't my rankings. I'm telling you that folks who know, know you're a few yards short of a full load.

I could care less that you don't like him. I probably like him less than you, but that don't mean he wasn't great, and many if not most call him the best peak fighter ever. He never showed any weakness in the ring until after he signed with King, stopped training properly, and started having legal problems. Greats who were better than Tyson struggled with journeymen coming up. Tyson never struggled, pitching shutouts over fighters he couldn't KO in a few rounds.

RAESAAD
11-01-2005, 08:33 PM
One name two words....Desire Washington.

Da Iceman
11-01-2005, 09:09 PM
[[[Did you even read my other parts to my post? In a sport where you are measured on achievments IN THE RING, Tyson didn't have much. He was first undisputed champ ever and youngest but in arguably the weakest division ever, even to date. He beat Holmes, but Holmes was ANCIENT and way out of his prime.]]]
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Facts is you don't have any facts. Tyson has the 5th most title wins in heavy history, most of them before he was 23. Tyson was the only fighter to beat Spinks and the only one to KO both Spinks and Holmes, both HOFers, and he did it EASILY! You say Holmes was past his prime, but he was 21-3 after this bout and fought for 2 more decades against bigger stronger fighters including two title matches that he went the distance in.

ALI came up in a weak division, not Tyson. If it wasn't for Frazier, Foreman, and Norton during his comeback, Ali wouldn't have ever beat a prime great and still had a half dozen controversial fights. Go read the ********* tribute to D'amato today. They call Tyson the most destructive fighter in history. Those aren't my words. IBRO historians rank him in the top 10. Those ain't my rankings. I'm telling you that folks who know, know you're a few yards short of a full load.

I could care less that you don't like him. I probably like him less than you, but that don't mean he wasn't great, and many if not most call him the best peak fighter ever. He never showed any weakness in the ring until after he signed with King, stopped training properly, and started having legal problems. Greats who were better than Tyson struggled with journeymen coming up. Tyson never struggled, pitching shutouts over fighters he couldn't KO in a few rounds.
all tyson fought were old past prime fighters who any bum couldve beat

TuPrincipe
11-01-2005, 10:05 PM
[[[Did you even read my other parts to my post? In a sport where you are measured on achievments IN THE RING, Tyson didn't have much. He was first undisputed champ ever and youngest but in arguably the weakest division ever, even to date. He beat Holmes, but Holmes was ANCIENT and way out of his prime.]]]
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Facts is you don't have any facts. Tyson has the 5th most title wins in heavy history, most of them before he was 23. Tyson was the only fighter to beat Spinks and the only one to KO both Spinks and Holmes, both HOFers, and he did it EASILY! You say Holmes was past his prime, but he was 21-3 after this bout and fought for 2 more decades against bigger stronger fighters including two title matches that he went the distance in.

ALI came up in a weak division, not Tyson. If it wasn't for Frazier, Foreman, and Norton during his comeback, Ali wouldn't have ever beat a prime great and still had a half dozen controversial fights. Go read the ********* tribute to D'amato today. They call Tyson the most destructive fighter in history. Those aren't my words. IBRO historians rank him in the top 10. Those ain't my rankings. I'm telling you that folks who know, know you're a few yards short of a full load.

I could care less that you don't like him. I probably like him less than you, but that don't mean he wasn't great, and many if not most call him the best peak fighter ever. He never showed any weakness in the ring until after he signed with King, stopped training properly, and started having legal problems. Greats who were better than Tyson struggled with journeymen coming up. Tyson never struggled, pitching shutouts over fighters he couldn't KO in a few rounds.


Tyson was a product of media hype. People love watching schmucks get smashed, even if it doesn't mean a damn thing.

Like it or not, a fighter is inevitably measured by the level of competition he faced, and how he fared aganist his elite foes. Lewis isnt fair, but Holyfield dominating him certainly is. I also don't really buy the sob-story stuff either. Plenty of fighters have the rags-to-riches story, antonio tarver being a present day example. The point is, a fighter's true character is shown (or exposed, in this case), when he faces adversity in the ring. When has tyson ever showed the "heart of a champion"?

Tyson's personal problems may have cause him to be exposed aganist Douglas, but it certainly would have happened down the line, like in the first holyfield fight. He had the greatest physical tools ever there's no denying that but given his intagibles (or lack thereof), how could you say that he would defeat any of the all-time greats, when he didn't?

Lastly, Tyson had a great management who was able to project an image of tyson that inspired fear in his B-C quality opponents. A fighter's greatness is revealed when he faces adversity in and out of the ring. tyson folded like a chair during adversities. Was Tyson really great? He may of had the physical tools but was he truly great?

Dempsey 1919
11-02-2005, 03:10 PM
i agree. tyson wasted a golden opportunity.

TuPrincipe
11-03-2005, 07:17 PM
KidBlackie what do you have to say now? Tool.

KidBlackie
11-04-2005, 02:20 PM
[[[KidBlackie what do you have to say now? Tool.]]]
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Dunno. What do you say to a reprobate JD who's proud of failing his tests and getting kicked out of school?

Before Tyson turned 22 he was 35-0, 31 KOs, undisputed heavy champ of the world with 8 consecutive title wins, 2 of them over HOFers who had never been beat, 3 of them undefeated, 2 of them with only 1 loss, 7 of them current or former champs. Oh, and Tyson still had the surviving members of his original team training and managing him and had cleared at least 100 million in earnings and was widely proclaimed as the best ever by most oldtimers.

Lessee, before Ali turned 22, he 19-0, 15 KO, with one win over a 49 yr old HOFer in his 2nd to last fight, dropped on his rump in one fight, outscored in another, and dropped again on his rump and needed a torn glove to buy him a few extra minutes of rest before he could continue. ZER0 title wins and estimated earnings of 200 grand and reputation of a big mouth and soft chin.

Now, go compare the comp junior and all but the village idiots would have to conclude that Tyson was the real deal and Ali was just a prospect. Of course Jacobs died, King and Givens took over, put Tyson away in the pen and took all his money and Tyson went 15-6 over the next 17 yrs yet was still a ranked top ten fighter until last year.

Yeah, Ali had a better career over his last 17 yrs, going 35-3, but he did it all with his original team and support of family. Nobody argues that Ali had the better career, he did, but he had many more advantages like winning gift fights and fluke fights. In the end, being beat by Leon is far more shameful than anything Tyson ever did in the ring. Like I stated junior, Tyson is ranked in the top 10 by IBRO historians. The only rank you got is the odor always emanating from your diapers.

KidBlackie
11-04-2005, 02:23 PM
RE:2 of them over HOFers who had never been beat,

.................that should read ---never been KOed.---- Unlike the juveniles on this board, I know when I make a mistake and can correct it.

SnoopySmurf
11-04-2005, 02:32 PM
Well, I just wanted to go on the record that I have never under rated Mike Tyson.

His outrageous speed and power alone, experts knew that these qualities would trancsend all eras of boxing.

I've gotten soft on defending Mike Tyson. Been doing it for years that I just ignore most critics.

TuPrincipe
11-05-2005, 03:00 AM
[[[KidBlackie what do you have to say now? Tool.]]]
============================

Dunno. What do you say to a reprobate JD who's proud of failing his tests and getting kicked out of school?

Before Tyson turned 22 he was 35-0, 31 KOs, undisputed heavy champ of the world with 8 consecutive title wins, 2 of them over HOFers who had never been beat, 3 of them undefeated, 2 of them with only 1 loss, 7 of them current or former champs. Oh, and Tyson still had the surviving members of his original team training and managing him and had cleared at least 100 million in earnings and was widely proclaimed as the best ever by most oldtimers.

Lessee, before Ali turned 22, he 19-0, 15 KO, with one win over a 49 yr old HOFer in his 2nd to last fight, dropped on his rump in one fight, outscored in another, and dropped again on his rump and needed a torn glove to buy him a few extra minutes of rest before he could continue. ZER0 title wins and estimated earnings of 200 grand and reputation of a big mouth and soft chin.

Now, go compare the comp junior and all but the village idiots would have to conclude that Tyson was the real deal and Ali was just a prospect. Of course Jacobs died, King and Givens took over, put Tyson away in the pen and took all his money and Tyson went 15-6 over the next 17 yrs yet was still a ranked top ten fighter until last year.

Yeah, Ali had a better career over his last 17 yrs, going 35-3, but he did it all with his original team and support of family. Nobody argues that Ali had the better career, he did, but he had many more advantages like winning gift fights and fluke fights. In the end, being beat by Leon is far more shameful than anything Tyson ever did in the ring. Like I stated junior, Tyson is ranked in the top 10 by IBRO historians. The only rank you got is the odor always emanating from your diapers.


OK.

Clearly you've made your point and I've made mine. I don't understand why your bringing Ali into this the thread isn't about Ali, it's about Tyson.

I respect your opinion, obviously you don't respect mine, but do you see where I'm coming from. Can you please read my previous posts with an open mind. I know what I'm talking about. I have been watching boxing for 12+ years. I'm not no schmuck off the street.

I know my stuff. Don't resort to personal attacks against me just because you don't agree with what I say. That just makes you look like a tool, not me.

EDIT- I truly believe Tyson had the physical intangibles to be the greatest fighter ever. He knocked out Larry Holmes who was a replica of Ali, and did it in devestating fashion.

Even if you go beyond 10 years, back to 1991, before he spent three years in prison for rape, Tyson struggled mightily to beat Ruddock, an ordinary fighter whom you've heard of only because he gave Tyson trouble in those fights, before it was clear that Tyson, then only 24 years old, had already tanked his career.

To close this post off, I might of been a tad bit outlandish with my comments on Tyson but I generally believe them to be right for the most part. He dominated his division, but he had no Joe Frazier like Ali did, and the fighters he did have (Lewis, Holyfield) he didn't beat.

Linx
11-05-2005, 11:14 AM
I read that article a while ago. I think Tyson would have beaten the old Foreman simply because Foreman was extremely slow footed and through hardly any punches. Foreman still had the power, but it had diminished and Mike's chin is top class so he ain't getting taken out with one shot. Tyson wouldn't KO George either though cause Foreman also had an iron chin.

A prime George Foreman beats Tyson. Formemans style is suicide for swarmers.

chimpy
11-07-2005, 05:58 PM
Tin Mike was a *****. He would of got his ass beat by Foreman. Tyson had NO balls to fight anyone, he was just as bad as JCC he fought guys with no pulses.

This is Mike Tysons career.
Lennox Lewis hammers and beats up Tin Mike twice: When both were 17 and when both were 36.

James Tillis actually beats Tin Mike, age 19, but loses the decision because of a deducted point.

Evander holyfield hammers and beats up Tin Mike, age 36, twice.

James Douglas hammers and beats up Tin Mike, age 24.

So Tin Mike gets hammered and beat up at every age: 17, 24, and 36. Great all-time champion this Tin Mike. Yeah...right!!

Out of the total of 34 rounds Tin Mike fought with Douglas, Holyfield, and Lewis, Tin Mike won, and this is stretching it, maybe 3 rounds. One of the greats. Yeah...right!!

Tin Mike had no footwork, no defense, no heart, and couldn't throw a combination. The only asset he possessed was power. And his marketing team marketed that one asset to the hilt to the gullible public. And they bought it hook, line, and sinker. And sadly, some of them probably still do.

In conclusion, Tin Mike fought when the heavyweight division was arguably the weakest division in history. If Tin Mike had fought in the 1960s, he wouldn't have been
rated in the Top 10.

Therefore, Tin Mike Tyson is the most over-rated fighter of all-time.

For god's sake, his amateur career was 16 and 5. Tyson was prone to crying before fights, and it was reported that when Lewis beat the piss out of Tyson in the ams, Tyson kicked him out of his gym.
God it's nice to read the truth-spoken like a TRUE boxing fan. You know, it's Tyson himself posting the "Pro-Tyson" posts, he cries before every new post.

habZ
11-07-2005, 07:52 PM
Leon Spinks would destroy Kevin Mcbride and Danny Williams.

Dempsey 1919
11-08-2005, 04:09 PM
I read that article a while ago. I think Tyson would have beaten the old Foreman simply because Foreman was extremely slow footed and through hardly any punches. Foreman still had the power, but it had diminished and Mike's chin is top class so he ain't getting taken out with one shot. Tyson wouldn't KO George either though cause Foreman also had an iron chin.

A prime George Foreman beats Tyson. Formemans style is suicide for swarmers.
old or new, it doesn't matter. foreman would crush tyson, period!

Dempsey 1919
11-23-2005, 03:43 PM
He is the most overated fighter ever. He will go down in history as one of the greatest ever, but he is just a media creation. He lost to EVERY SINGLE guy who stood up to him, and once you stuck a jab in his face he was done.

He only know how to beat up C-level guys. Once he fought the big boys, he was manhandled. He was just a one-trick pony.

Tyson's career-defining moment (a positive one) was knocking out a light-heavweight. Without anyone else to measure him aganist, I don't think it's fair to put him in the same league with someone like an ali, frazier, marciano, or louis, as they showed aganist elite competition that they were great. Tyson may have been, but I believe that the man who folded aganist holyfield was the same man who fought spinks, except spinks never tested him.

Sorry Tyson followers, but your hero isn't all what he is cracked up to be.

marciano is just as overrated, if not more than tyson.

Da Iceman
11-23-2005, 04:37 PM
marciano is just as overrated, if not more than tyson.
why the **** are you always criticizing marciano? if he's so overated so is ali. ali clearly lost to norton the third time, jimmy young whooped his ass , and liston took a dive. he never couldve whooped any of them in his prime

Dempsey 1919
11-23-2005, 04:42 PM
why the **** are you always criticizing marciano? if he's so overated so is ali. ali clearly lost to norton the third time, jimmy young whooped his ass , and liston took a dive. he never couldve whooped any of them in his prime

wow, you are an idiot! jimmy young fought an over the hill ali and still lost. norton never fought a prime ali, which would make him look stupid, and liston didn't take a dive in their first fight, and clay whupped his butt! so your argument is nullified from here on end.

KingDosia
08-29-2006, 05:08 PM
In an interview later on after Foreman's fight with Holyfield he himself stated that he "wasnt ready" for a fight with the likes of Iron Mike. He probably saw himself in the annihilation of Holmes

Southpaw Stinger
08-29-2006, 06:47 PM
In an interview later on after Foreman's fight with Holyfield he himself stated that he "wasnt ready" for a fight with the likes of Iron Mike. He probably saw himself in the annihilation of Holmes

I bet Foreman was kicking himself when he saw Holyfield beat Tyson twice.

Hard Boiled HK
08-29-2006, 11:29 PM
I bet Foreman was kicking himself when he saw Holyfield beat Tyson twice.

Yeah I was thinking of the same exact thing.

Heckler
08-31-2006, 11:18 AM
Tyson couldn't fight on the backfoot nor did he have the headmovement and explosive combination punching required to give himself a chance on the inside at that stage in his career. George would be able to impose his physical strength on Tyson on the inside, collect him with those huge looping shots, discourage him and ultimately stop in the later rounds. Tyson would have to overcome a huge stylistic problem and a huge psychological problem. Foreman wasn't as faded and vunerable in his second career as some may think. He was very clever, patient and dedicated but he was still able to show tremendous power when he wished to. Look at his fight against Gerry Cooney. Foreman knowing that Cooney was a dangerous man to be hanging with in that ring absolutely destroyed him, it was a truly awesome display of punching power.

SABBATH
08-31-2006, 03:19 PM
In an interview later on after Foreman's fight with Holyfield he himself stated that he "wasnt ready" for a fight with the likes of Iron Mike. He probably saw himself in the annihilation of Holmes I would like to see that interview. What's your source?

When Foreman came out of retirement it was for one man only and that was Tyson and a large majority of Foreman's early comeback opponents were shorter swarming type guys. That was for a reason. To prepare him for a Tyson fight. After seeing Tyson KO'd by Douglas I highly doubt Foreman thought he "wasn't ready" for a Tyson fight.

Southpaw Stinger
08-31-2006, 03:21 PM
When Foreman came out of retirement it was for one man only and that was Tyson and a large majority of Foreman's early comeback opponents were shorter swarming type guys. That was for a reason. To prepare him for a Tyson fight. After seeing Tyson KO'd by Douglas I highly doubt Foreman thought he "wasn't ready" for a Tyson fight.

I remember Foreman was desperate to fight Tyson. He did an interview in ring magazine in the late 80's on how he knew he could beat Mike. He liked to spar and fight shorter swarming guys a lot because a Tyson fight was his main objective next to regaining his title.

jason100x
08-31-2006, 04:02 PM
now why didnt liston ever fight marciano, that would have been hell of a fight.

That would have been a great fight. I'm looking at Liston's record and I see that at the point he was fighting at the champion level was 1962 by which time Marciano was already retired seven years. I guess it would have been tough at that point to get Marciano to come out of retirement.

La_Vibora
08-31-2006, 11:05 PM
I would pick Foreman because he is never intimidated and Tysons intimidation wouldn't be a factor. All Tyson's opponents were afraid to be Kayoed and for good reason. Foreman was a monster and though he wasn't the best boxer, he could hurt anybody. Tyson has ALWAYS had problems with bigger strong guys. Foreman could back Tyson up, which negates much of what Tyson likes to do and basically punish Mike. I think Mike may have some moments but Foreman's heart and size are too much to overcome.


Actually Foreman very well could have been intimidated, I mean Big George himself admitted that he was scared to death of Joe Frazier when he fought him, he also ducked Earnie Shavers for years(he even admitted it to Earnie), and he has/continues to duck Larry Holmes to this day. Hell, the almost 60 something Larry Holmes, is still calling George out to this day, and he still wants no part of him. Anyways, I do agree with the assessment that was supposedly delivered by Cus D'Amato that a peek a boo style fighter would struggle with Foreman's style, so even an old man Foreman might have a chance, even though I never really brought into his comeback.

Southpaw Stinger
08-31-2006, 11:10 PM
Actually Foreman very well could have been intimidated, I mean Big George himself admitted that he was scared to death of Joe Frazier when he fought him

George was scared of Frazier - and look what he did to Joe, fear made him stronger.

continues to duck Larry Holmes to this day. Hell, the almost 60 something

What I think is why he don't want to box anymore. Whats it gonna prove?

La_Vibora
08-31-2006, 11:13 PM
marciano is just as overrated, if not more than tyson.


Please explain this one in depth please of how Marciano was overrated.

La_Vibora
08-31-2006, 11:30 PM
George was scared of Frazier - and look what he did to Joe, fear made him stronger.



What I think is why he don't want to box anymore. Whats it gonna prove?


Well lets be real, Foreman would not have beaten Larry Holmes during any era, even Foreman himself knows that, which is why he never wanted any piece of Larry. I could see Larry circling him while popping his 1-2 all night long, working his jab, and keeping George from setting his feet. I have a feeling that fight would have looked similar to the Holmes-Shavers fight, with Larry dominating the fight.

Heckler
09-01-2006, 02:05 AM
Well lets be real, Foreman would not have beaten Larry Holmes during any era, even Foreman himself knows that, which is why he never wanted any piece of Larry. I could see Larry circling him while popping his 1-2 all night long, working his jab, and keeping George from setting his feet. I have a feeling that fight would have looked similar to the Holmes-Shavers fight, with Larry dominating the fight.

Lets be real? Circling while popping the 1-2 all night long, keeping George from setting his feet? Its quite possible that after Joe Frazier George Foreman is the best HW ever at cutting the ring before he was beaten by Ali. Before he lost that self-confidence and became tentative in the ring Foreman would cut his opponent off with his huge strides and manipulate them into position with his physical strength. The only thing Shavers and Foreman have in common is huge punching power, Shavers certainly didn't have the physical strength nor the ability cut the ring like Foreman did. If Ali whom in the first few rounds even in 74' could move better than Holmes did found that it wasn't feasible to move from Foreman all night what chance do you think Holmes has of running all night? It's possible Holmes would win, but he would be forced to fight at Foreman's range and absorb huge punishment... could he do it? possibly but he will not simply outbox Foreman.

hemichromis
09-01-2006, 02:45 AM
Well lets be real, Foreman would not have beaten Larry Holmes during any era, even Foreman himself knows that, which is why he never wanted any piece of Larry. I could see Larry circling him while popping his 1-2 all night long, working his jab, and keeping George from setting his feet. I have a feeling that fight would have looked similar to the Holmes-Shavers fight, with Larry dominating the fight.

thats exactl what ali tried to do at the start of his match but he found foreman could move too quickly.

the two prime fighters would probablt be a foreman win in 3rd or 4th round IMO

both fighters at 42 i stil favour foreman but it would probably be a later roud ko or more likely a UD win

La_Vibora
09-01-2006, 03:08 AM
Lets be real? Circling while popping the 1-2 all night long, keeping George from setting his feet? Its quite possible that after Joe Frazier George Foreman is the best HW ever at cutting the ring before he was beaten by Ali. Before he lost that self-confidence and became tentative in the ring Foreman would cut his opponent off with his huge strides and manipulate them into position with his physical strength. The only thing Shavers and Foreman have in common is huge punching power, Shavers certainly didn't have the physical strength nor the ability cut the ring like Foreman did. If Ali whom in the first few rounds even in 74' could move better than Holmes did found that it wasn't feasible to move from Foreman all night what chance do you think Holmes has of running all night? It's possible Holmes would win, but he would be forced to fight at Foreman's range and absorb huge punishment... could he do it? possibly but he will not simply outbox Foreman.

Agreed, when I was making the comparison to Shavers, I meant in the sense that Larry would have controlled the fight. While Foreman was better at cutting off the ring than Shavers, he still had difficulty with moving targets, which is why fighters coming forward like Joe Frazier got dismantled easily, whereas a fighter like Larry who could fight going backwards had a much better shot at beating George. Another problem with Foreman was that he wasn't very good at pacing himself, as confirmed by Ali and later Jimmy Young, if he could make it out of the first 5 or 6 rounds, then I could certainly see Larry taking over somewhere around round 7 or 8, and more than likely KOing him in the later rounds. I do agree that Larry would have had to probably take some shots early on, however Larry was very tough, and would have been able to stand it. I mean I just can't help thinking how he looked like he got shot when Shavers floored him in their fight, and yet he got back on his feet to take care of business. I think you are underrating Larry here.

La_Vibora
09-01-2006, 03:11 AM
thats exactl what ali tried to do at the start of his match but he found foreman could move too quickly.

the two prime fighters would probablt be a foreman win in 3rd or 4th round IMO

both fighters at 42 i stil favour foreman but it would probably be a later roud ko or more likely a UD win

Well you are certainly more confident than George is, thats for sure, seeing how George has never shown any interest at all in fighting Larry, despite it being an obvious fight to make for so long.

Southpaw Stinger
09-01-2006, 09:19 AM
Well you are certainly more confident than George is, thats for sure, seeing how George has never shown any interest at all in fighting Larry, despite it being an obvious fight to make for so long.

Again, what reason does George have fighting Larry Holmes? Especially now.

Dempsey 1919
09-01-2006, 01:06 PM
Please explain this one in depth please of how Marciano was overrated.

His power is overrated because many fighters he fought had weak chins or were very old or both. His chin is overraed, because he didn't stand up to huge punchers like george foreman and mike tyson. His biggest wins are over light hw charles and old man walcott and old man louis.

Dempsey 1919
09-01-2006, 01:08 PM
Well lets be real, Foreman would not have beaten Larry Holmes during any era, even Foreman himself knows that, which is why he never wanted any piece of Larry. I could see Larry circling him while popping his 1-2 all night long, working his jab, and keeping George from setting his feet. I have a feeling that fight would have looked similar to the Holmes-Shavers fight, with Larry dominating the fight.

On the contrary it is Holmes who wants no part of foreman. Foreman wanted to fight Holmes in the late 70's, to tune up for jimmy young and possibly a rematch with ali, but Holmes declined.

Yaman
09-01-2006, 01:28 PM
If Tyson was a ***** for ''ducking''(bull**** from haters) Foreman.

Then Foreman is the biggest ***** for ducking Quarry and Holmes!!

Dempsey 1919
09-01-2006, 01:48 PM
If Tyson was a ***** for ''ducking''(bull**** from haters) Foreman.

Then Foreman is the biggest ***** for ducking Quarry and Holmes!!

Foreman didn't duck quarry. when quarry was in his prime, foreman just started. when foreman was in his prime, quarry was fading already. and it is holmes that ducked foreman, not the other way around.

Tyson however avoided the issue time and time again about fighting foreman and he obviously wanted no part of him.

Yaman
09-01-2006, 02:41 PM
Foreman didn't duck quarry. when quarry was in his prime, foreman just started. when foreman was in his prime, quarry was fading already. and it is holmes that ducked foreman, not the other way around.

Tyson however avoided the issue time and time again about fighting foreman and he obviously wanted no part of him.

Well then Foreman avoided Quarry time after time again. And he has said it openly aswell. Tyson however not. There is no proof of it, except for a guy that claims Tyson said this and that. The guy had absolutely NOTHING to prove it. Nothing to back it up. No audio, video blabla. nothing.

I'll say it again.
If Tyson was a ***** for ''ducking''(bull**** from haters) Foreman.

Then Foreman is the biggest ***** for ducking Quarry and Holmes!!

La_Vibora
09-01-2006, 06:57 PM
On the contrary it is Holmes who wants no part of foreman. Foreman wanted to fight Holmes in the late 70's, to tune up for jimmy young and possibly a rematch with ali, but Holmes declined.

Oh come on now, at that time Larry Holmes was still green and his management felt that he was not ready to fight George Foreman yet. That is like me saying that Miguel Cotto is ducking Floyd Mayweather because Bob Arum feels he still needs to get some more fights under his belt first. Larry Holmes has been calling out George Forman since the 80s, hell watch the Larry Holmes "Beyond the Glory" show where at the end Larry says he is retired, but the one fight he would comeback for would be George Foreman, who he said has been running from him for years. Hell, I even remember during an HBO telecast during the 90's where they mentioned to George the possibility of him fighting Foreman, and he wouldn't even acknowledge the comment. So yes, Foreman did duck Holmes, Quarry, and Shavers. BTW, I don't dislike Foreman either, I actually am a fan of his.

Abe Attell
09-02-2006, 01:28 AM
Foreman old or young had the perfect style for Tyson. Remember how Tyson mentally fell to pieces when Holyfield started shoving him around the ring.
Foreman adopted this strategy all the time to create punching room. He would have taken Tyson punches and stood his ground.
I think Tyson was a great fighter but styles make fights and Foreman had the perfect antidote to Tyson.

Tyson wasn't stupid, maybe a bit arrogant at times, but not stupid...he knew he wasn't in his prime any longer and when he noticed in the ring that Holyfield wasn't shot like people were saying, and knowing that he was, he knew he didn't have a great chance. Tyson even said after his last fight that his career was over in "1990"...I would say it was over after he got rid of Rooney, but I will give him those last moments.

Old Foreman had a chance against Tyson (after leaving Rooney) because Tyson's confidence wasn't as strong, but i would still favor Tyson since Foreman, though powerfull, I just don't think he was as powerfull as he once was, nor did he have speed (which wasn't as bad as most say) to keep Tyson off.

A Prime Foreman, that is a different story. I don't buy that he wouldn't last as long as Frazier, since I think Tyson had a better chin and defense than Frazier...his ability to throw fast, sharp, and powerfull punches in both hands also deterred his opponent from throwing as many punches back.
Tyson should of learned how to thrown his combination and bounce back out of range

SquareCircle
09-02-2006, 02:11 PM
foreman would have seriously ****ed tyson's world up and if you disagree, let me know so I can disregard anything else you ever say about boxing ever again. and im talking old foreman.

SquareCircle
09-02-2006, 02:13 PM
Old Foreman would have beaten the living **** out of any version of Tyson, even when Cus was alive

Abe Attell
09-02-2006, 11:55 PM
foreman would have seriously ****ed tyson's world up and if you disagree, let me know so I can disregard anything else you ever say about boxing ever again. and im talking old foreman.

I disagree :D

Young Foreman is different but old Foreman just stood in one place...it wouldn't be that hard to have Tyson move around a bit; you don't need to dance like Ali, just move around like Michael Moorer did, except don't be stupid and stay right in front of him. Foreman did not seem to have the same power as he once had in my opinion...proof his is KO ratio went down and fighters that most likely would of been knocked out before, seem to be able to stand up,
That's why I talk about Foreman's speed: people like to comment that he was really slow, but watch his fights from his youth and he wasn't "really slow", average in speed, yes, but not slow.
I think it has a lot to do with his loading up of punches that made him seem slow, but just look at when he threw his jab...those punches that were just straight down the middle were not slow at all.


A nice weapon that the young Foreman had was his use of the uppercut...a great example is the uppercut he used that nearly took of Frazier's head...that punch always gave Tyson trouble, and with Foreman's power, it could be bedtime early.

Let's not forget that according to Earnie Shavers, Foreman told him that he ducked him his entire career because of his power.
Tyson doesn't hit like Frazier, but with his speed, combinations, chin, and very good power, he could give Foreman trouble.
If I were Foreman, I would use that jab he used in his early part of his career...great example is even as early as his victory over the Russian guy for the Gold Medal...that jab was beautiful and brutal

kidslug
09-06-2006, 02:50 PM
slipx put down the bottle. George Foreman the greatest? OMG what a crazy ass thing to say. Dempsey would have dooubled him over with body shots. Ali boxed him into the ground, and so did little Jimmy Young. George Foreman was the technically most unsound fighter of all time. In all the fights I've seen him in I think I've counted 6 straight punches. When those big bombs came in from the side Jimmy young went underneath and answered with shots to his face, making him look stupid. I can see the point of a bobbing weaving fighter being made for a looping puncher, being he is bound to weave into a few of those hard shots. Given the guy could hit hard but there is so much more to the sweet science than being able to punch down a house. **** man get real.

hemichromis
09-06-2006, 05:40 PM
slipx put down the bottle. George Foreman the greatest? OMG what a crazy ass thing to say. Dempsey would have dooubled him over with body shots. Ali boxed him into the ground, and so did little Jimmy Young. George Foreman was the technically most unsound fighter of all time. In all the fights I've seen him in I think I've counted 6 straight punches. When those big bombs came in from the side Jimmy young went underneath and answered with shots to his face, making him look stupid. I can see the point of a bobbing weaving fighter being made for a looping puncher, being he is bound to weave into a few of those hard shots. Given the guy could hit hard but there is so much more to the sweet science than being able to punch down a house. **** man get real.
and yet he dominated the division in one of its high points knocking out the champ and the no 1 contender in 2 rounds each!

your right foreman couldn't fight!!!

Dempsey 1919
09-06-2006, 06:12 PM
Oh come on now, at that time Larry Holmes was still green and his management felt that he was not ready to fight George Foreman yet.

Both Foreman and holmes were around the same age, and Foreman only started a few years before holmes. Plus holmes' record was about 21-0 when foreman called him out, so he was experienced enough to fight foreman, he was just scared.

Dempsey 1919
09-06-2006, 06:14 PM
Well then Foreman avoided Quarry time after time again. And he has said it openly aswell. Tyson however not. There is no proof of it, except for a guy that claims Tyson said this and that. The guy had absolutely NOTHING to prove it. Nothing to back it up. No audio, video blabla. nothing.

I'll say it again.
If Tyson was a ***** for ''ducking''(bull**** from haters) Foreman.

Then Foreman is the biggest ***** for ducking Quarry and Holmes!!

You say there is no proof that tyson said that he was scared of foreman, right? If that's true, then that means that there is no proof that foreman said he was scared of quarry!

owned! :eek:

SquareCircle
09-07-2006, 04:36 AM
You say there is no proof that tyson said that he was scared of foreman, right? If that's true, then that means that there is no proof that foreman said he was scared of quarry!

owned! :eek:

all the proof you need is how foreman would call out tyson every chance he got...and how when tyson got in front of a mic he never mentioned foreman's name

Mech.
09-07-2006, 06:37 AM
'I'm not fightin' that ****in' animal, if you love the mother****er so much, you fight him!'"

lol that one of the funniest thing Ive ever heard,I have some serious reservtions that that was actually said,but if it was,Id give my left nut to be in the room when it happened.

Dempsey 1919
09-07-2006, 10:21 AM
all the proof you need is how foreman would call out tyson every chance he got...and how when tyson got in front of a mic he never mentioned foreman's name

Exactly. :cool:

Yaman
09-07-2006, 10:34 AM
You say there is no proof that tyson said that he was scared of foreman, right? If that's true, then that means that there is no proof that foreman said he was scared of quarry!

owned! :eek:

I was using it as an example AGAINST those retarded arguments you illeterate dickhead :)

You must feel very smart now! ''pwned!''

Dempsey 1919
09-07-2006, 10:37 AM
I was using it as an example AGAINST those retarded arguments you illeterate dickhead :)

You must feel very smart now! ''pwned!''

Before you call someone an illiterate dickhead, maybe you should learn how to spell illiterate first.

owned!! :D :D :D

Yaman
09-07-2006, 10:40 AM
Before you call someone an illiterate dickhead, maybe you should learn how to spell illiterate first.

owned!! :D :D :D

Well then, you learn how to spell your name because you're just a
B.U.T.T.F.L.Y

go to bed buttfly :cool:

Dempsey 1919
09-07-2006, 10:47 AM
Well then, you learn how to spell your name because you're just a
B.U.T.T.F.L.Y

go to bed buttfly :cool:

Again with the childish insults, huh? Why am I wasting my time, I should be listening to the lecture that my computer professor is giving instead of arguing with some crazed tyson fan on the web. I'll just liston to my professor now.

Yaman
09-07-2006, 11:01 AM
Again with the childish insults, huh? Why am I wasting my time, I should be listening to the lecture that my computer professor is giving instead of arguing with some crazed tyson fan on the web. I'll just liston to my professor now.

NOBODY here wants your stinking wortless opinion. Everything you say is biased. its a proven fact. So Get lost buttfly.

Dempsey 1919
09-07-2006, 11:04 AM
NOBODY here wants your stinking wortless opinion. Everything you say is biased. its a proven fact. So Get lost buttfly.

Are you having one of your fits right now? :D

Yaman
09-07-2006, 11:49 AM
Are you having one of your fits right now? :D

If i did you would be crying yourself to death, because i wouldnt do that to a kid that gets ****ted on and bullied on the internet by everybody else anyway :D

Dempsey 1919
09-07-2006, 12:07 PM
If i did you would be crying yourself to death, because i wouldnt do that to a kid that gets ****ted on and bullied on the internet by everybody else anyway :D

How does one get "bullied" on the internet, anyway? lol. Maybe if you get off the computer and get to the real world, you will be better off my friend. :cool:

Abe Attell
09-07-2006, 01:55 PM
all the proof you need is how foreman would call out tyson every chance he got...and how when tyson got in front of a mic he never mentioned foreman's name



Tyson is also the same person to say that he wouldn't fight Joe Louis and Ali because they were his Heroes ...he watched Louis, Ali, and Foreman over and over and loved to see them fight...one of his favorite fights was supposedly the Foreman vs Frazier fight, he was in awe of that match.

Tyson might have not wanted to fight an old Foreman out of respect...remember how bad Marciano felt when he had to fight Louis, maybe Tyson didn't want to go through that ****...or maybe Tyson knew that he couldn't get motivated for the fight because he was fighting one of his heros, thus giving himself a disadvantage he didn't want, that of fighting while unmotivated.

If you are going to mention the fact that he faced Holmes, I am not sure Tyson looked up to Holmes...Atlas said Cus used to discuss fighting Holmes with Tyson and the strategy to beat him.
You don't usually "discuss" strategy to beat your heroes.
If anything, it was probably easy for Tyson to hit Holmes because the amount of tape Tyson used to watch he had to have come across the **** talking Holmes and the bad words he used towards Ali...remember, Ali was Tyson inspiration, and Holmes talked **** about Ali, wonder what a kid that hears **** talk about his hero is going to do to that person :D



All that said, can't rule out that Tyson knew that even if Foreman was old and not the same fighter, he was still a beast of a man who could still take your head off.

kidslug
09-07-2006, 05:03 PM
He did NOT dominate the division in a HIGH point. Frazier was old. Watch the Young Foreman fight.

hemichromis
09-07-2006, 05:39 PM
He did NOT dominate the division in a HIGH point. Frazier was old. Watch the Young Foreman fight.

for the first fight frasier was not old, perhaps not in his prime as his prime was very short but he certainly wasn't old, do you believe him being 2 or 3 years younger would have helped him against foreman?

SABBATH
09-07-2006, 06:09 PM
If i did you would be crying yourself to death, because i wouldnt do that to a kid that gets ****ted on and bullied on the internet by everybody else anyway :Dhttp://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j247/miserygarden/movies/beetle1.jpg

YAMAN GETS TOUGH AND CHALLENGES BUTTERFLY

Dempsey 1919
09-08-2006, 12:50 AM
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j247/miserygarden/movies/beetle1.jpg

YAMAN GETS TOUGH AND CHALLENGES BUTTERFLY

Good to see you back, SABBATH.

Yaman
09-08-2006, 08:18 AM
Funny how you give yourself a welcome buttfly. Since Smasher is an alt account from yourself.
And Smasher, you want to get banned again? lol. I wont even bother to post pics from that retard Bubbles.


Anyway, fact still is that there is no real proof of Tyson ducking Foreman, just stories. And there is more proof of Foreman ducking Quarry or even Holmes. I rest my case.

Dempsey 1919
09-08-2006, 01:18 PM
Funny how you give yourself a welcome buttfly. Since Smasher is an alt account from yourself.
And Smasher, you want to get banned again? lol. I wont even bother to post pics from that retard Bubbles.


Anyway, fact still is that there is no real proof of Tyson ducking Foreman, just stories. And there is more proof of Foreman ducking Quarry or even Holmes. I rest my case.

No he's not my alt. Just accept the fact that there is more than just one person who doesn't like you.

Yaman
09-08-2006, 02:36 PM
No he's not my alt. Just accept the fact that there is more than just one person who doesn't like you.
More than one eh? I can live with that. Unlike you, cause you're hated by the whole BS forum! :D
go to bed buttfly.

Joeyzagz
09-09-2006, 08:21 PM
George Foreman put Mike Tyson number 7 on his top 10 greatest of all time list. Ranking him higher than sonny Liston, Evander Holyfield and Lennox Lewis.

I think they both feared and respected each other too much to let the fight happen.

SABBATH
09-10-2006, 01:20 PM
Foreman returned the the ring 4 months after Tyson won the title. Read any interview Foreman made around the time of his comeback and Foreman always said he was coming back to win the title. With Mike Tyson as heavyweight champion and the biggest money draw in boxing, who the hell do you think Foreman wanted to fight??????

micky_knox
09-10-2006, 02:31 PM
they would have had to face each other eventually if tyson hadnt ended up in jail........ :(

:boxing:

Southpaw Stinger
09-10-2006, 03:44 PM
Foreman returned the the ring 4 months after Tyson won the title. Read any interview Foreman made around the time of his comeback and Foreman always said he was coming back to win the title. With Mike Tyson as heavyweight champion and the biggest money draw in boxing, who the hell do you think Foreman wanted to fight??????

I think that explains it all.

SquareCircle
09-10-2006, 04:00 PM
it aint a secret, foreman was calling tyson out constantly...every time he got in front of a mic. and when tyson got in front of a mic he didn't say ****.

Some guy up there said they were both afraid of each other and that's why it never happened. Bull****...

The only thing Foreman would've been afraid of fighting Tyson was that he'd stop Tyson too early and not get enough ring experience...