Roy Jones Junior was undoubtably an exceptional talent!

But I think, he could have been SOOOOO MUCH MORE! Had he not avoided the best in every division?

So what will he be remembered as now?

A Great boxer, a great personality and excellent for boxing because he is one of the most talk about boxers in general and no publicity is bad publicity, so he is great for the sport!

And speaking on his skills it took 15 years for someone to beat him, and when someone really went out lookin to attack him (Vinny Pazienza) he avoided gettin hit for a whole round, his recent losses are nothin he would have probably stopped Johnson 2 years prior and why did it take so long for Tarver to go after him I think it was because Jones beat him in the amateurs and he wanted to wait for Jones to get a lil older

Michalczewski would have KO'd Jones if they fought prime for prime. Michalczewski's power and relentless style plus underrated boxing skills and chin would have exposed Jones and dropped him.

However I do like Jones he is a great fighter, one of the greatest fighters in the last 10 years, he has beaten practically everybody there is. James Toney, Bernard Hopkins, John Ruiz and many others.

Michalczewski vs. Jones would probably have been possibly the biggest light heavyweight boxing match of all time and it never happened thanks in part to both of them....what a shame

Its very hard to say about Roy, I believe his skills are still unmatched, and he could have whuped both Tarver and Johnson with ease, if he wanted to. He can still comeback and prove his greatness because i dont think he would want to be remembered as a fighter who was retired by a knockout.

Its very hard to say about Roy, I believe his skills are still unmatched, and he could have whuped both Tarver and Johnson with ease, if he wanted to. He can still comeback and prove his greatness because i dont think he would want to be remembered as a fighter who was retired by a knockout.

If Roy comes back I dont like his chances against any of the Light Heavyweight title Holders

Erdei

Tiozzo

Johnson

The Lt. Heavyweight division is very strong

If Roy comes back I dont like his chances against any of the Light Heavyweight title Holders

Erdei

Tiozzo

Johnson

The Lt. Heavyweight division is very strong
Roy jones is still roy jones, none of these names can match his. If he can recover from his loses, he can climb the ranks very fast.

Roy jones is still roy jones, none of these names can match his. If he can recover from his loses, he can climb the ranks very fast.

none of those guys have the name recognization that Jones does, agreed, but Johnson already did put Jones on his is ass and Tiozzo and Erdei are just as good if not better than Johnson, or Tarver for that matter. But Jones has the championship mentality if he does come back, who knows maybe he will be unstopable and sweep the divsion, its not a totally remote possibility.

Johnson fought a very week, and unrecovered Roy jones. Roy still has about 3 or 4 years left in him to go out on top...if Roy recovers its the possiblity of him being champ is very high.

D'you not think it's a fantasy?... Talking about Roy Jones Junior coming back, from being knocked unconcious in his last 2 fights too unifying the light-heavyweight division again?

D'you not think it's a fantasy?... Talking about Roy Jones Junior coming back, from being knocked unconcious in his last 2 fights too unifying the light-heavyweight division again?

Jones never actually did unify the Lt Heavyweight belts. Michalczewski did, and then he was immediately stripped of all his belts, except the WBO.

My opinion is... That Roy Jones was a close friend on Gerald McClellan. And afte seeing what happened to him, in that Nigel Benn fight... Roy Jones spent the rest of his career picking the easy options?

It's no lie that he avoided the best in each division... Only hope Floyd Mayweather doesn't follow the same path (eg. Gatti - light-welterweight).

I have a lot of respect for Tiger. He was a tough muthafugga in his day, but I can't see him ever winning against a prime Jones Junior.

As far as his greatness goes? He fought and beat the two most notable peers of his time in Hopkins and Toney.

You could shoot holes in both Hopkins and Toney's individual claims to greatness, you could also argue that those fighters faced Jones in his prime whilst theirs' arrived a decade later.

It's a bit of a gray area at the moment. Personally, I think Jones is the most naturally gifted fighter I've ever seen.

Greatness and talent aren't always necessarily joined at the hip though.

You see, the thing about Roy is un recoverable. Just like with Prince Naseem.

When your fighting style is heavily dependant on your reflexes, once you lose the reflexes, you are finished. It's gone forever, you will never be an elite fighter again, ever.

Fighters that use power as their main victory attribute you'll notice have longer timespans in the ring, look at Tyson, he's old now and still banging strong, and isn't THAT washed up. Look at Foreman, his main attribute was power and he came back. Look at any fighter who used reflexes rather than power and you'll notice that after their KO losses or w/e they never returned. Because reflexes is the first thing to go, power is the last.

IMO fighters like Roy Jones, Ali & Tyson age really quick cos they rely so much on their natural speed and in ali/RJJ case reflexes. When Ali's natural talent was gone he had his chin to carry him on, RJJ does not have that.

There was so many potential match-ups for Roy had he wanted them. He even avoided a rematch with Bernard Hopkins, if he was so confident in himself why would he avoid a rematch with a legend in the making. Beating someone 12years b4 doesnt really say much as alot can change in 12 years. Not to mention all the middleweight/super middleweight match-ups he could have had in the 90's.

There is no way Michalczewski would have beaten Jones. Are you guys forgetting how hard RJ was to hit back then?

You see, the thing about Roy is un recoverable. Just like with Prince Naseem.

When your fighting style is heavily dependant on your reflexes, once you lose the reflexes, you are finished. It's gone forever, you will never be an elite fighter again, ever.

Fighters that use power as their main victory attribute you'll notice have longer timespans in the ring, look at Tyson, he's old now and still banging strong, and isn't THAT washed up. Look at Foreman, his main attribute was power and he came back. Look at any fighter who used reflexes rather than power and you'll notice that after their KO losses or w/e they never returned. Because reflexes is the first thing to go, power is the last.

I agree - and look for Zab to suffer some shocking KO's late in his career.

I agree with you Slip except for on the subject of Tyson. Old Iron Mike did rely on his speed and reflexes in his prime, and it shows now that they are gone. True he still can punch, but he has struggled even against the weak composition he has faced. At least Jones lost to top guys like Johnson and Tarver.

A good example of what you were saying with Tyson would be Foreman, who in some ways actually improved with age.

Roy Jones Junior was undoubtably an exceptional talent!

But I think, he could have been SOOOOO MUCH MORE! Had he not avoided the best in every division?

So what will he be remembered as now?

Avoided? Avoided?! When did Roy avoid fights?

Roy Fought some name fighters and beat them, but dodged alot of others and his total disregard for following up rematches except for Griffin and Tarver woiuld leave some doubt in alot of peoples minds, but all in all no one can deny that he had exceptional talent and new what he was doing 95 percent of the time in the ring.

There is no way Michalczewski would have beaten Jones. Are you guys forgetting how hard RJ was to hit back then?


Seriously...he'd be like every other poor schlub that got in his way.

Roy claims never to have dodged a fighter. Could someone tell me who he's dodged? Aside from perhaps Bernard, who else would have given him any competition in a rematch? What would the purpose had been?

Roy claims never to have dodged a fighter. Could someone tell me who he's dodged? Aside from perhaps Bernard, who else would have given him any competition in a rematch? What would the purpose had been?

Dariusz fro one, i mean he didn't go over ther and fight him and i don't blame him, but he never rematched Bernard like you said or even James toney, Why not stay at heavy and Give Ruiz another Chance, why not give harding another crack, i mean there is a few.

IMO fighters like Roy Jones, Ali & Tyson age really quick cos they rely so much on their natural speed and in ali/RJJ case reflexes. When Ali's natural talent was gone he had his chin to carry him on, RJJ does not have that.

There was so many potential match-ups for Roy had he wanted them. He even avoided a rematch with Bernard Hopkins, if he was so confident in himself why would he avoid a rematch with a legend in the making. Beating someone 12years b4 doesnt really say much as alot can change in 12 years. Not to mention all the middleweight/super middleweight match-ups he could have had in the 90's.






Maybe the first half of you're topic was good. But roy jones jr didnt avoid the rematch with bernard hopkins. Roy said he would fight B-Hop agian it was bernard hopkins who didnt want it. He fought hopkins with a broken right hand and still won. But roy or hopkins wasnt in there primes at that point. Roy could come back but there is no passion the hunger. Its very hard to stay on top for so long. In the locker room before the first tarver fight if you lisen to what he said you would of picked up on that. Larry merchant asked roy if this would be the last time we would see roy jones at this weight and if he was going to fight heavy. He said this might be the last time you see roy jones jr at any weight. Also went on about he is ****ing on the last few credics.He didnt want it, But still came out the winner that night. Roy was a great fighter but he was always to worried about getting caught. Roy may have doged alot of the top fighters in his prime but certainly it was not bernard hopkins.


Side Note: If roy jones jr decided not to come back. I think he should work with Andre Ward now that he signed with rjjr. Roy was a seasoned vet the first time he steped into the ring. Be nice for him to pass his experince to a younger fighter who could become a champ.

I have a lot of respect for Tiger. He was a tough muthafugga in his day, but I can't see him ever winning against a prime Jones Junior.

As far as his greatness goes? He fought and beat the two most notable peers of his time in Hopkins and Toney.

You could shoot holes in both Hopkins and Toney's individual claims to greatness, you could also argue that those fighters faced Jones in his prime whilst theirs' arrived a decade later.

It's a bit of a gray area at the moment. Personally, I think Jones is the most naturally gifted fighter I've ever seen.

Greatness and talent aren't always necessarily joined at the hip though.

toney was undefeated and in his prime when he fought roy jones. people question the hopkins fight but he is older than jones and had more fights than jones when they fought.

btw toney is no where near his prime and will get exposed shortly by either ruiz or any other top 5 heavy.

Dariusz fro one, i mean he didn't go over ther and fight him and i don't blame him, but he never rematched Bernard like you said or even James toney, Why not stay at heavy and Give Ruiz another Chance, why not give harding another crack, i mean there is a few.

the reason he didnt give toney, hopkins, ruiz or harding rematches was because he domininated them all. toney only took 1 round from roy.

its both fighters(roy and dm) falt for not fighting eachother. after jones seen what happened to g-man he said he would never travel overseas. DM could have come to north america but he decided against it. if it was money problems roy jones deserved more anyway, afterall its his name carrying the card anyway.

the reason he didnt give toney, hopkins, ruiz or harding rematches was because he domininated them all. toney only took 1 round from roy.

its both fighters(roy and dm) falt for not fighting eachother. after jones seen what happened to g-man he said he would never travel overseas. DM could have come to north america but he decided against it. if it was money problems roy jones deserved more anyway, afterall its his name carrying the card anyway.

Regardless of how much he dominated them, look at them now and look at him now, all of the guys he didn't rematch are some way or other on top of their games, had he rematched them before his decline, then his legacy would have been complete

Dariusz fro one, i mean he didn't go over ther and fight him and i don't blame him, but he never rematched Bernard like you said or even James toney, Why not stay at heavy and Give Ruiz another Chance, why not give harding another crack, i mean there is a few.

Well, the guy below said Bernard didn't want the fight, which I find more likely than Roy. He beat Toney when Toney was in his prime, and he beat him in fashion. A rematch wasn't really needed. Ruiz is, and was a chump. A rematch against him would have been pointless because Roy would have kicked his ass again; not to mention he had Tarver challenging him at Light Heavy, presumably for more money. My best bet on Harding would be that he wasn't the mandatory challenger, and had no belts to offer, and he lost to Tarver three fights later. Had he beaten Tarver, maybe we would have seen a rematch?

So, aside from Bernard, I don't see why he'd fight any of the other guys. And some say Bernard was the one who didn't want to fight, and I have nothing to back either side up.

I can't see Roy dodging ANY fights in his earlier career. Maybe these last few years he did, but before that I find it VERY hard to believe. He was so much above the other fighters.

Regardless of how much he dominated them, look at them now and look at him now, all of the guys he didn't rematch are some way or other on top of their games, had he rematched them before his decline, then his legacy would have been complete

toney isnt on top of anything he has beaten fat rydell booker, old evander holyfield(prime holy tears toney limb from limb), and micheal moorers and joe mesi victim vasily jirov in his lat three.

hopkins wouldnt move from middle instead he fought small guys and robert allen. only name on hopkins record is tito. dont get me wrong hopkins is a great fighter but he didnt deserve a remath especially at middle. if you want to avenge yourself you must meet the champ on his terms.

Well, the guy below said Bernard didn't want the fight, which I find more likely than Roy. He beat Toney when Toney was in his prime, and he beat him in fashion. A rematch wasn't really needed. Ruiz is, and was a chump. A rematch against him would have been pointless because Roy would have kicked his ass again; not to mention he had Tarver challenging him at Light Heavy, presumably for more money. My best bet on Harding would be that he wasn't the mandatory challenger, and had no belts to offer, and he lost to Tarver three fights later. Had he beaten Tarver, maybe we would have seen a rematch?

So, aside from Bernard, I don't see why he'd fight any of the other guys. And some say Bernard was the one who didn't want to fight, and I have nothing to back either side up.

I can't see Roy dodging ANY fights in his earlier career. Maybe these last few years he did, but before that I find it VERY hard to believe. He was so much above the other fighters.


Regardless of how much he dominated them, look at them now and look at him now, all of the guys he didn't rematch are some way or other on top of their games, had he rematched them before his decline, then his legacy would have been complete


Bernard wasn't where he is now when Jones was in the same weight class. Roy was well into his Light Heavy career by the time Bernard was a big name. To make him drop 20 pounds to rematch a guy would be ridiculous. Toney was a Cruiser by that time. Maybe Jones could have rematched him up there, but he beat him so badly when both were in their prime. A loss when he was older, and heavier would have meant little, as would the rematch.

Regardless of how much he dominated them, look at them now and look at him now, all of the guys he didn't rematch are some way or other on top of their games, had he rematched them before his decline, then his legacy would have been complete



Well that may be true. But you must not fool you're self not every one wanted to rematch roy jones jr. James toney didnt want jones after that.I belive if jones jr stayed at middle then bernard hopkins would have no choice but to rematch. Now alot of us are talking past there is no what "ifs". you should look at this topic as a poster that is neutral about roy not a nuthugger or a hater. But if jones wanted to show all the doubters he is still the champ, he should come back take the rematch with Clinton woods. Then take 1 more for a tune up. Then fight tarver. If he loses then at least no one can say he didnt have balls.

The only way Jones could ever really make a dent in fighting again is to ... not really change ... his style but adapt and adjust to the fact that he's not the same age anymore. Most fighters with time gain new tactics and mental games and have better defenses ... Roy is definitely gonna have to work on his defense and get a jab. He still has the hand speed but needs a new game...

Look at Michael Jordan... at thirty something he was still outscoring and outplaying early twenty year olds. Not by dunking on them over and over but by becoming a better smarter player. Used more tools that required less phsyical energy such as his jump shot and just mentally dominating his defender. That's something Roy would need to do...

In MY opinion...

Johnson fought a very week, and unrecovered Roy jones. Roy still has about 3 or 4 years left in him to go out on top...if Roy recovers its the possiblity of him being champ is very high.

There is no way Michalczewski would have beaten Jones. Are you guys forgetting how hard RJ was to hit back then?

Yeah kind of like he was in the first Griffin fight. :birthday:

Roy claims never to have dodged a fighter. Could someone tell me who he's dodged? Aside from perhaps Bernard, who else would have given him any competition in a rematch? What would the purpose had been?

Sanders, Jirov, Benn, McClellan, Jackson, Michalczewski, Nunn, Rocchigiani to name a few.

And I really don't understand why Toney and McCallum are always listed as two of Jones's best wins. Toney lost to Griffin in his next fight. Hell Griffin beat him twice and he beat Jones once. Yes Jones fans it was a loss. Going into 9th round he was behind on 2 of the scorecards and ahead on one. The scores were 76-75, 75-77, and 75-76. The DQ punch was clearly uncalled for, and the punch that hurt Griffin to begin with was also illegal. The previous KD was hardly legit as well as Jones basically jumping into Griffin caused the KD. Tenacious Drake Thazdi also beat him. Nunn was also on his way to a very one sided decision before Toney caught him. McCallum was nearly 40 years old. Tiozzo beat him two fights before Jones did as well. IMO his best wins are Hopkins, Griffin II, and Hill.

Sanders, Jirov, Benn, McClellan, Jackson, Michalczewski, Nunn, Rocchigiani to name a few.

And I really don't understand why Toney and McCallum are always listed as two of Jones's best wins. Toney lost to Griffin in his next fight. Hell Griffin beat him twice and he beat Jones once. Yes Jones fans it was a loss. Going into 9th round he was behind on 2 of the scorecards and ahead on one. The scores were 76-75, 75-77, and 75-76. The DQ punch was clearly uncalled for, and the punch that hurt Griffin to begin with was also illegal. Tenacious Drake Thazdi also beat him. Nunn was also on his way to a very one sided decision before Toney caught him. McCallum was nearly 40 years old. Tiozzo beat him two fights before Jones did as well. IMO his best wins are Hopkins, Griffin II, and Hill.



yes i'll agree it was looking that way. He was losing but he was on his way to knocking griffin out. Griffin would of got up if jones didnt sneak them dirty punches in but i dont think he would of finished the fight.


But lets talk dirty for a minute. Jones was dirty at the time of Dq But that Shoulder/Push griffin did then a left hook right after was also uncalled for.

yes i'll agree it was looking that way. He was losing but he was on his way to knocking griffin out. Griffin would of got up if jones didnt sneak them dirty punches in but i dont think he would of finished the fight.

I don't think so either, he was smart to take the DQ. That was a vicious rabbit punch Jones landed which Griffin wobbling all over the ring.

Yeah kind of like he was in the first Griffin fight. :birthday:

You see the rematch when Jones was fired up??!!

The only thing holding Jones back is motivation. He's done it all in the sport so there's not much else to accomplish. However if he ever feels the spark from within himself then look the f*&k out!! I reckon he'll clear out the division once again easy!!

toney was undefeated and in his prime when he fought roy jones. people question the hopkins fight but he is older than jones and had more fights than jones when they fought.

btw toney is no where near his prime and will get exposed shortly by either ruiz or any other top 5 heavy.


How much you wanna put on that sucka>?

I agree - and look for Zab to suffer some shocking KO's late in his career.

let's not compare zab and roy, he's already been ko'd.

You see the rematch when Jones was fired up??!!

Yeah that's why I said that was one of his three best wins. The official Griffin excuse though is that he was rushed and didn't get time to warm up.

Sanders, Jirov, Benn, McClellan, Jackson, Michalczewski, Nunn, Rocchigiani to name a few.

And I really don't understand why Toney and McCallum are always listed as two of Jones's best wins. Toney lost to Griffin in his next fight. Hell Griffin beat him twice and he beat Jones once. Yes Jones fans it was a loss. Going into 9th round he was behind on 2 of the scorecards and ahead on one. The scores were 76-75, 75-77, and 75-76. The DQ punch was clearly uncalled for, and the punch that hurt Griffin to begin with was also illegal. The previous KD was hardly legit as well as Jones basically jumping into Griffin caused the KD. Tenacious Drake Thazdi also beat him. Nunn was also on his way to a very one sided decision before Toney caught him. McCallum was nearly 40 years old. Tiozzo beat him two fights before Jones did as well. IMO his best wins are Hopkins, Griffin II, and Hill.

Samders? why did sanders deserve a shot at roy? roy jones only had one fight at heavyweight. why not ask roy jones to fight the klits as well

jirov doesnt deserve anything, he has proved that in the big fights he chokes and again roy jones is not a heavy or a cruiser

roy jones was going to fight nigel benn but that fight was soon cancelled because benn lost to thulane malinga whom roy jones later fought and beat instead.

cant blame jones for not fighting mcclellan, you can blame the ref in his g-mans loss to benn for that.

jones didnt fight jackson because imo people would have blamed roy jones for fight mcclellan's left overs, the guy even lost to quincy taylor.

jones fought james toney instead of micheal nunn because toney had beaten nunn.

Rocchigiani beat nobody before his loss to eubanks. the only guy he beat that was nameworthy was thulane malinga. his entire record is filled with bums and the good fighters that he fought all beat him.

the only guy i blame roy jones for not facing is DM who has just as much blame for not making the fight as roy does.

the loss to montell griffin was a dq, roy jones was on his way to knocking out griffin and let his frustration with griffin get the best of him. griffin is a good slick fighter who roy jones didnt prepare for in the first fight. we all now what happened to griffin in part 2.also if the round was to be scored and the fight were to continue it would have had to been scored 10-7 for jones and in that case roy jones is ahead on all scorecards.

let's not compare zab and roy, he's already been ko'd.

Don't think for a minute that I'd compare Roy Jones & Zab Judah.
I'm saying that Zab relies heavily on his reflexes as his defense isn't technically sound. He will suffer some bad KO's if he stays too long in boxing.

There is no way Michalczewski would have beaten Jones. Are you guys forgetting how hard RJ was to hit back then?

Michalczewski's moved better than people give him credit for and his left jab was very quick hard and accurate, I think he would have been able to land that punch on Jones and that would set up all his other power punching. Michalczewski is all wrong for Jones, because despite Jones' reflexes Michalczewski relentless agression would get to Jones.

YOu probably have this image in your mind that Jones is so fast and Michalczewski is so slow, its not true, Michalczewski moves very well, and his handspeed is good, and his jab is very fast, powerfull and accurate. Michalczewski probably also has at least as good as stamina as Jones, if not better, he probably has better stamina, or did back in his day. Michalczewski's boxing skills are really underrated. He constantly is moving his head and feat and has very good timing with his punches, he also counterpunches extremely well.

Sanders, Jirov, Benn, McClellan, Jackson, Michalczewski, Nunn, Rocchigiani to name a few.



Rocchigiani would have given him alot of trouble, no question, I dont know about Nunn, Jirov he would probably dominate, Jirov is just to slow.

If Toney could beat Nunn in his prime I dont think Jones would have any trouble doing it. Jones won every round against Toney, but Toney looked like **** in that fight, just his style is all wrong for fighting Jones.

Roy Jones Junior was undoubtably an exceptional talent!

But I think, he could have been SOOOOO MUCH MORE! Had he not avoided the best in every division?

So what will he be remembered as now?

Using the word "talent" is very appropriate in Roy's case. He's one of the most talented fighters ever, and that, combined with his lightning-quick reflexes and speed, make him one of the greatest fighters of his time. However, when he started losing that slight edge that his reflexes and speed gave him, he started getting caught with flush punches, and can't really compete as effectively as he did just a few years ago. Because, while Roy is extremely talented, he's only moderately skilled, and his talent is to blame for this. He never spent the time developing his skill to the point that most other fighters at the top do, and now that he's slowed slightly, he's getting in trouble much more often.

I never liked Roy's mouth, but like Ali, he was great to watch. I hope he stays retired. He doesn't need the money, and he's no longer capable of being truly competetive.

Rocchigiani would have given him alot of trouble, no question, I dont know about Nunn, Jirov he would probably dominate, Jirov is just to slow.

If Toney could beat Nunn in his prime I dont think Jones would have any trouble doing it. Jones won every round against Toney, but Toney looked like **** in that fight, just his style is all wrong for fighting Jones.


Nunn was a legitimate #1 p4p guy when Toney beat him. He had some of the best natural BOXING skills ever seen. He also had pretty good power in both hands and his footwork was exceptional. Jones would have had a very hard time with a prime Nunn...probably moreso than Rocchigiani/Jirov/and maybe even Dariusz.

Nunn had "lost" a split descision with Rochigiani in Germany in 1998.

Graciano Rocchigiani 175 39-4-1
Max Schmeling Halle, Berlin, Prenzlauer Berg, Germany L SD 12 12 Referee: Daniel Van de Wiele | 111-118 | 113-115 | 116-113 ~




Before this bout, then-WBC Light Heavyweight champion Roy Jones made his intentions to fight Heavyweight James 'Buster' Douglas on May 20, 1998 instead of Michael Nunn, the WBC mandated challenger. The WBC title was then declared vacant and contested between #1 rated Nunn and #2 rated Graciano Rocchigiani. However, in June of 1998 the WBC illegally changed down-graded Rocchigiani's classification to that of an 'interim' champion, and then stripped him outright, having declared Roy Jones as being the champion in recess. Rocchigiani sued the WBC and was awarded $31 million in damages. Also as a result of this lawsuit, a United States District Judge retroactively restored Rocchigiani’s official WBC Light Heavyweight championship status in April 2003, but only from 03-28-1998 to 04-15-2000, when he lost to Dariusz Michalczewski.)

So Jones apparently did duck Nunn

Nunn had "lost" a split descision with Rochigiani in Germany in 1998


When he was past his best mind you...

Sanders, Jirov, Benn, McClellan, Jackson, Michalczewski, Nunn, Rocchigiani to name a few.

Wow...so why didn't DM fight those guys if Roy has to? You love DM so much but hold him to a lesser standard which shows me that you do not think DM is as good as Roy.

1) Sanders...No one wanted to see this fight. Roy cannot duck a man who is fat, out of shape, and isn't in Roy's weight class. Roy only fought at heavyweight to get a belt, and everyone knows that. Sanders couldn't even beat Ruiz if they fought.

2) Jirov...again, 2 totally different weight class. You can't just pick random guys and say that Roy ducked them. Roy and Jirov were in negotiations, and then bigger fish came along with Ruiz and his belt. Do you understand the term "ducking" at all?

3) Benn...Benn fought not one single fight in his last 6 years of boxing in the United States...all were in Europe. What makes you think Benn even wanted to fight Roy? Benn was also a very dirty fighter and almost killed his best friend in the ring so no wonder it might be true that Roy didn't want to share a ring with Benn and his tactics. Benn lost to THULANE MALINGA who Roy DESTROYED. When Benn and Roy were in the same weight class, Benn was KO'd twice by Steve Collins.

4) McClellan...best friends rarely fight each other. Look at Zab and Floyd. Floyd don't want to fight Zab, and vice versa, it's just a matter of principle. In rare cases friends fight each other, but you can't say Roy ducked Gerald because they were best friends and maybethey would have fought if Gerald wasn't almost killed in his fight with Benn.

5) Julian Jackson and Roy's histories don't even cross much. Roy didn't have that many fights by the time Jackson was already 10 years in the game. Jackson got KO'd in his biggest fights and that's his own fault (except against Terry Noris). You can't blame Roy for Jackson getting KO'd and having started his career way before Roy started his.

6) DM...bull****, plain and simple. DM was not considered the champ, and should have been willing to go to the U.S. to fight Roy. German judges have been horrible even to this day, and anyone can see why Roy wouldn't fight DM in his own backyard. DM's unwillingness to travel pretty much shows how serious he was in wanting to fight Roy. His ridiculous undefeated record probably would never have happened had he fought Roy in his prime. Roy wasn't ducking a challenge, Dm just wasn't seeking one.

7) Michael Nunn...lost to Toney, who Jones dominated. Had a close fight with Merqui Sosa, who Jones KO'd in 2 rounds. Nunn also was not a realsupermiddleweight or even a lightheavyweight. He weighed in the 180's and 190's long before Roy did. He was simply not in the same weightclass. He almost always outweighed his opponents. Nunn was made the challenger to Roy by the WBC even though in his 4 previous fights he weighed in at 186, 175, 191, and 186. He even went all the way up to 196 shortly thereafter.

8) Rock...Rock was illegally stripped of championship status, but you can't blame Roy for that. Blame the WBC. Between 1996 and 2000 (around when they were in the same class) Rock fought a whopping 5 times. 2 were losses to DM and in his only "significant" win he beat 35 yr-old Nunn by split decision.

another roy thread?...

first of all, roy neevr ducked hopkins. when hopkins won against trinidad roy offered a 60/40 split of the purse...earning B-Hop his biggest pay-day (only to be ecplised by his DLH years later).

now..if you are the 'fighter of the decade', the P4P king, the undisputed ligtht heavyweight champion who has a win on your opponent...why would you settle for an even split?? 60/40 was very fair...but it was B-hop who wanted more and priced himself out.

Wow...so why didn't DM fight those guys if Roy has to? You love DM so much but hold him to a lesser standard which shows me that you do not think DM is as good as Roy.

1) Sanders...No one wanted to see this fight. Roy cannot duck a man who is fat, out of shape, and isn't in Roy's weight class. Roy only fought at heavyweight to get a belt, and everyone knows that. Sanders couldn't even beat Ruiz if they fought.

2) Jirov...again, 2 totally different weight class. You can't just pick random guys and say that Roy ducked them. Roy and Jirov were in negotiations, and then bigger fish came along with Ruiz and his belt. Do you understand the term "ducking" at all?

3) Benn...Benn fought not one single fight in his last 6 years of boxing in the United States...all were in Europe. What makes you think Benn even wanted to fight Roy? Benn was also a very dirty fighter and almost killed his best friend in the ring so no wonder it might be true that Roy didn't want to share a ring with Benn and his tactics. Benn lost to THULANE MALINGA who Roy DESTROYED. When Benn and Roy were in the same weight class, Benn was KO'd twice by Steve Collins.

4) McClellan...best friends rarely fight each other. Look at Zab and Floyd. Floyd don't want to fight Zab, and vice versa, it's just a matter of principle. In rare cases friends fight each other, but you can't say Roy ducked Gerald because they were best friends and maybethey would have fought if Gerald wasn't almost killed in his fight with Benn.

5) Julian Jackson and Roy's histories don't even cross much. Roy didn't have that many fights by the time Jackson was already 10 years in the game. Jackson got KO'd in his biggest fights and that's his own fault (except against Terry Noris). You can't blame Roy for Jackson getting KO'd and having started his career way before Roy started his.

6) DM...bull****, plain and simple. DM was not considered the champ, and should have been willing to go to the U.S. to fight Roy. German judges have been horrible even to this day, and anyone can see why Roy wouldn't fight DM in his own backyard. DM's unwillingness to travel pretty much shows how serious he was in wanting to fight Roy. His ridiculous undefeated record probably would never have happened had he fought Roy in his prime. Roy wasn't ducking a challenge, Dm just wasn't seeking one.

7) Michael Nunn...lost to Toney, who Jones dominated. Had a close fight with Merqui Sosa, who Jones KO'd in 2 rounds. Nunn also was not a realsupermiddleweight or even a lightheavyweight. He weighed in the 180's and 190's long before Roy did. He was simply not in the same weightclass. He almost always outweighed his opponents. Nunn was made the challenger to Roy by the WBC even though in his 4 previous fights he weighed in at 186, 175, 191, and 186. He even went all the way up to 196 shortly thereafter.

8) Rock...Rock was illegally stripped of championship status, but you can't blame Roy for that. Blame the WBC. Between 1996 and 2000 (around when they were in the same class) Rock fought a whopping 5 times. 2 were losses to DM and in his only "significant" win he beat 35 yr-old Nunn by split decision.


Michalczewski fought Rochigiani twice and won both times. He fought Derrick Harmon who won a clear descision against Glencoff Johnson who knocked Roy Jones Jr. He knocked out in 4 Montell Griffin who gave Jones so much trouble in their first fight.

You then bring up Benn and McClellen. Benn and McClellen are not even that great of fighter each of them have losses to low ranked fighters, and Julian Jackson is not prize winner either I dont why you even bring them into the discussion.


(Before this bout, then-WBC Light Heavyweight champion Roy Jones made his intentions to fight Heavyweight James 'Buster' Douglas on May 20, 1998 instead of Michael Nunn, the WBC mandated challenger. The WBC title was then declared vacant and contested between #1 rated Nunn and #2 rated Graciano Rocchigiani. However, in June of 1998 the WBC illegally changed down-graded Rocchigiani's classification to that of an 'interim' champion, and then stripped him outright, having declared Roy Jones as being the champion in recess. Rocchigiani sued the WBC and was awarded $31 million in damages. Also as a result of this lawsuit, a United States District Judge retroactively restored Rocchigiani’s official WBC Light Heavyweight championship status in April 2003, but only from 03-28-1998 to 04-15-2000, when he lost to Dariusz Michalczewski.)
Jones ducked Nunn

Julian Jackson 55-6 Losses

L TKO 9 Anthony Jones 38-8-2 Year 1998

L KO 9 Verno Phillips 29-7-1 year 1998

L TKO 6 Quincy Taylor 25-3 Year 1995

L KO 1 Gerald McClellen 27-2 Year 1993

L TKO 2 Mike McCallum 26-0 year 1986

Jackson's last fight was in 1998


Gerland McClellan 31-3 Losses

L KO 10 Nigel Benn 39-2-1 year 1995

L UD Ralph Ward 12-3 year 1989

L PTS Dennis Milton 11-2-1 year 1989

McClellan's last fight was in 1995


Nigel Benn 42-5-1 Losses

L TKO6 Steve Collins 33-3 year 1996

L TKO4 Steve Collins 32-3 year 1996

L SD Thulane Malinga 40-9 year 1996

L TKO9 Christ Eubank 24-0 year 1990

L KO6 Mike Watson 21-1-1 year 1989

Benn's last fight was in 1996


Michael Nunn 58-4 Losses

L SD Graciano Rocchigiani 39-4-1 year 1998

L UD Frankie Liles 25-1 year 1994

L SD Steve Little 21-13-2 year 1994

L TKO11 James Toney 25-0-1 year 1991


Sander of SA is totally irrevelevant to the topic I dont know when or why was going to fight him. I would have liked to see Michalczewski fight Nunn but I never heard that at any time the fight was on the table. Nunn and Michalczewski never have any mandate to fight each other, but Nunn was Roy's mandatory and he skipped out of it.

Roy's mandatory and he skipped out of it.

Like I said, the "mandatory" had weighed in at 175, 186, 186, and 191 in his 4 previous fights. He was NOT in Roy's weight class ANYWAY. Don't tell me Roy was trying to avoid an old Michael Nunn.

Michalczewski fought Rochigiani twice and won both times. He fought Derrick Harmon who won a clear descision against Glencoff Johnson who knocked Roy Jones Jr. He knocked out in 4 Montell Griffin who gave Jones so much trouble in their first fight.

And how much trouble did Montell give Roy in the rematch? None. You seem to forget that. Also, it kind of scares me that you seem to think the man who got KO'd by Glen Johnson and the prime Roy Jones Jr. have anything to do with each other. Get some perspective before you bring another weak-ass argument like that.

You then bring up Benn and McClellen. Benn and McClellen are not even that great of fighter each of them have losses to low ranked fighters, and Julian Jackson is not prize winner either I dont why you even bring them into the discussion.

Pay attention. I brought up this point because Neuraxis said Roy had ducked them, and I gave reasons that support that his statement is flawed at best.

Don't debate with me if you don't even know who I am talking to or why.

Roy ducked Michael Nunn, he saw how Nunn handled Rochigiani and ran and refused to defend the Lt. Heavyweight championship end of story. His little publicity stunt to get out of it was to fight James buster Douglas, which he actually never did do. Roy is a piss poor champion to run away from the mandatory challengers. Roy was afraid of Nunn-(why) because nunn has power and roy has a weak chin.

Everybody says Toney talks so much **** and cant back it up. Roy JOnes Jr. and his fans talk more **** than any other fans and never back it up. Roy talk so much ****, at one point in his career he kept on going on TV and saying he could knock out Tyson and all this **** but the fact is, he runs from quality fighters like Nunn and Michalczewski, and all the best in every divsision.

Roy ducked Michael Nunn, he saw how Nunn handled Rochigiani and ran and refused to defend the Lt. Heavyweight championship end of story. His little publicity stunt to get out of it was to fight James buster Douglas, which he actually never did do. Roy is a piss poor champion to run away from the mandatory challengers. Roy was afraid of Nunn-(why) because nunn has power and roy has a weak chin.


Nunn's power was nothing special above 168...he never KO'ed anyone of any worth about 168. Roy wouldn't have been afraid of his power at 175.

His little publicity stunt to get out of it was to fight James buster Douglas, which he actually never did do. Roy is a piss poor champion to run away from the mandatory challengers. Roy was afraid of Nunn-(why) because nunn has power and roy has a weak chin.

1) Roy did go on the fight Ruiz, at an older age and when he was slower, so there is a reason to think that he actually did want to fight Douglass, and it was not just a stunt to get out of fighting an old Michael Nunn. Roy has fought guys with more power than Nunn.

2) Roy has fought plenty of mandatories.

3) Roy's chin was not "weak". His ability to take a punch was made to be weaker by several different events. His chin was tested vs Ruiz, and in the first Tarver fight. The blow that put him down in the rematch would have put out many, if not all lightheavyweights. However, his ability to take a punch was damaged when he lost muscle mass to come back down from heavyweight. He was less healthy in general and yet still eeked out a decision vs Tarver. In the Tarver fight, Roy was hit with at least 15-20 hard rabbit-punches that were uncalled by upstart ref Kenny Bayless. This may also have affected Roy's ability to take a punch. Vs Glen Johnson, Roy was hit with HARD punches that did not take him down until he was finally hit on the temple in the 9th round. Look at round 5 to see that Roy still in fact did not have a weak chin, as he takes a monster punch and makes a rally in that round. Roy's ability to take a punch isn't as good as it used to be, but it still doesn't deserve to be called weak, and certainly in his prime it was at least good. One must also consider that Roy started his career at 154, and in fact was normally the smaller man in his fights for the latter half of his career.

Roy Jones Junior was undoubtably an exceptional talent!

But I think, he could have been SOOOOO MUCH MORE! Had he not avoided the best in every division?

So what will he be remembered as now?Top 10 all time middleweight. Nothing that happens can influence his rating anymore. He's clearly declined.

Everybody says Toney talks so much **** and cant back it up. Roy JOnes Jr. and his fans talk more **** than any other fans and never back it up. Roy talk so much ****, at one point in his career he kept on going on TV and saying he could knock out Tyson and all this **** but the fact is, he runs from quality fighters like Nunn and Michalczewski, and all the best in every divsision.LOL Michalczewski. You're right, nearly everyone agrees that Roy and Michalczewski should've met and without that happening his claims to be the man rang a bit hollow. As did Michalczewski's.

BOTH are to blame for that not happening.

Btw, all those people who insist that fight should've happened ...

... they also agree Roy probably would've whitewashed his ass. Quit nuthugging and keep it real, son.

Samders? why did sanders deserve a shot at roy? roy jones only had one fight at heavyweight. why not ask roy jones to fight the klits as well

jirov doesnt deserve anything, he has proved that in the big fights he chokes and again roy jones is not a heavy or a cruiser

roy jones was going to fight nigel benn but that fight was soon cancelled because benn lost to thulane malinga whom roy jones later fought and beat instead.

cant blame jones for not fighting mcclellan, you can blame the ref in his g-mans loss to benn for that.

jones didnt fight jackson because imo people would have blamed roy jones for fight mcclellan's left overs, the guy even lost to quincy taylor.

jones fought james toney instead of micheal nunn because toney had beaten nunn.

Rocchigiani beat nobody before his loss to eubanks. the only guy he beat that was nameworthy was thulane malinga. his entire record is filled with bums and the good fighters that he fought all beat him.

the only guy i blame roy jones for not facing is DM who has just as much blame for not making the fight as roy does.

the loss to montell griffin was a dq, roy jones was on his way to knocking out griffin and let his frustration with griffin get the best of him. griffin is a good slick fighter who roy jones didnt prepare for in the first fight. we all now what happened to griffin in part 2.also if the round was to be scored and the fight were to continue it would have had to been scored 10-7 for jones and in that case roy jones is ahead on all scorecards.

Roy called out Jirov and Sanders and then when there was plans to fight him initiated by them, Roy backed out. At middleweight and super middleweight Roy seemed like he could care less about belts. Hmmm, maybe its because tough competition held the belts and they weren't vacant after being stripped from their rightful owner like they were at light heavyweight.

This just in the punch that Jones hurt Griffin with was ILLEGAL. You can't spin someone and punch them in the back of the head. Luckily Roy bailed out Montell by flagrantly hitting him when he was down because the ref sure as hell wasn't going to enforce the rules.

Nunn was a legitimate #1 p4p guy when Toney beat him. He had some of the best natural BOXING skills ever seen. He also had pretty good power in both hands and his footwork was exceptional. Jones would have had a very hard time with a prime Nunn...probably moreso than Rocchigiani/Jirov/and maybe even Dariusz.

Yeah I agree Jones would have trouble with Nunn that's why ducked him for years. The only reason Toney beat him is because he has such a good chin, and he caught Nunn just in time. Nunn was up 97-91, 99-91, 98-92. Nunn was definately the real deal.

This just in the punch that Jones hurt Griffin with was ILLEGAL..

Haha. yeah it was. that is flagrant as hell.

Wow...so why didn't DM fight those guys if Roy has to? You love DM so much but hold him to a lesser standard which shows me that you do not think DM is as good as Roy.

1) Sanders...No one wanted to see this fight. Roy cannot duck a man who is fat, out of shape, and isn't in Roy's weight class. Roy only fought at heavyweight to get a belt, and everyone knows that. Sanders couldn't even beat Ruiz if they fought.

2) Jirov...again, 2 totally different weight class. You can't just pick random guys and say that Roy ducked them. Roy and Jirov were in negotiations, and then bigger fish came along with Ruiz and his belt. Do you understand the term "ducking" at all?

3) Benn...Benn fought not one single fight in his last 6 years of boxing in the United States...all were in Europe. What makes you think Benn even wanted to fight Roy? Benn was also a very dirty fighter and almost killed his best friend in the ring so no wonder it might be true that Roy didn't want to share a ring with Benn and his tactics. Benn lost to THULANE MALINGA who Roy DESTROYED. When Benn and Roy were in the same weight class, Benn was KO'd twice by Steve Collins.

4) McClellan...best friends rarely fight each other. Look at Zab and Floyd. Floyd don't want to fight Zab, and vice versa, it's just a matter of principle. In rare cases friends fight each other, but you can't say Roy ducked Gerald because they were best friends and maybethey would have fought if Gerald wasn't almost killed in his fight with Benn.

5) Julian Jackson and Roy's histories don't even cross much. Roy didn't have that many fights by the time Jackson was already 10 years in the game. Jackson got KO'd in his biggest fights and that's his own fault (except against Terry Noris). You can't blame Roy for Jackson getting KO'd and having started his career way before Roy started his.

6) DM...bull****, plain and simple. DM was not considered the champ, and should have been willing to go to the U.S. to fight Roy. German judges have been horrible even to this day, and anyone can see why Roy wouldn't fight DM in his own backyard. DM's unwillingness to travel pretty much shows how serious he was in wanting to fight Roy. His ridiculous undefeated record probably would never have happened had he fought Roy in his prime. Roy wasn't ducking a challenge, Dm just wasn't seeking one.

7) Michael Nunn...lost to Toney, who Jones dominated. Had a close fight with Merqui Sosa, who Jones KO'd in 2 rounds. Nunn also was not a realsupermiddleweight or even a lightheavyweight. He weighed in the 180's and 190's long before Roy did. He was simply not in the same weightclass. He almost always outweighed his opponents. Nunn was made the challenger to Roy by the WBC even though in his 4 previous fights he weighed in at 186, 175, 191, and 186. He even went all the way up to 196 shortly thereafter.

8) Rock...Rock was illegally stripped of championship status, but you can't blame Roy for that. Blame the WBC. Between 1996 and 2000 (around when they were in the same class) Rock fought a whopping 5 times. 2 were losses to DM and in his only "significant" win he beat 35 yr-old Nunn by split decision.

DM only fought at cruiserweight and light heavyweight. DM had one decision win from 1997-2005 which was against Hill which wasn't even close so its not like the judes would have mattered, and anyways they seemed to be more than fair judging from the scores at the times of stoppages. Jones offered DM ridiculous money to come to the U.S. where Jones vs. Johnson just shows how impossible it would have been for DM to get a decision against Jones in the U.S. Jones demanded $12 million to fight DM in Germany when his previous high had been $4 million.

LOL Michalczewski. You're right, nearly everyone agrees that Roy and Michalczewski should've met and without that happening his claims to be the man rang a bit hollow. As did Michalczewski's.

BOTH are to blame for that not happening.

Btw, all those people who insist that fight should've happened ...

... they also agree Roy probably would've whitewashed his ass. Quit nuthugging and keep it real, son.

Like I've already said, just like he whitewashed Griffin in their first fight. :buttkick:

Like I've already said, just like he whitewashed Griffin in their first fight. :buttkick:

why don't you tell us something about the 2nd fight, this is ridiculous... you are holding against jones his DQ loss against a guy he KOed 1 in the rematch... it's not ali-frazier or barrera-morales or the first few robinson-lamotta, saddler-pepp fights, we are not talking close battles: the rematch was ko1, knock out in round 1.
Not some random punch but a total destruction of the louis-schmeling 2 type or prime tyson vs nobody.

and the first fight was won by griffin on the canvas...
oh wait that's the way you think DM would have won against jones, now I see the picture

I'm glad this thread created some interest ;)

I just watched the Toney vs RJJ fight "again" and I have to say... Roy Jones Junior was an exceptional talent!

BUT!..... He has to be one of the most frustrating fighters ever. Maybe something to do with him managing himself? :confused: - Because he avoided so many good fighters!

More recently (in the twilight of his career) I really think that he could have proved himself as a true great by chasing the best in each division instead of wasting time fighting Kelly/Gonzalez/Woods etc. :confused:

He just had such amazing natural talent - i mean who else was that ****ing fast?

... they also agree Roy probably would've whitewashed his ass. .

There is no way Roy would whitewash Michalczewski. Jones' power would not keep Michalczewski off. Michalczewski would pursue him with his excellent left jab and eventually start to land and then start landing power punches and eventually KO Jones. Michalczewski had very quick feet so its not like Jones would dance around him all night, not a possiblity.

Michalczewski's jab is so powerfull he could stagger Jones wit his straight left alone.

Michalczewski's style is just plain all wrong for Jones in any year at any time...even now

McKay... You seem very "PRO - Michalczewski"... And I know the P4P bull**** that we get from the Americans, (eg... Just compare the level of competition faced by Erik Morales over the last 7yrs with that of Bernard Hopkins!... LOL!).

But take all that P4P crap away from Roy Jones Junior... despite his "ducking" he was a VERY good fighter, and I reckon, would have beaten Michalczewski... :confused:

why don't you tell us something about the 2nd fight, this is ridiculous... you are holding against jones his DQ loss against a guy he KOed 1 in the rematch... it's not ali-frazier or barrera-morales or the first few robinson-lamotta, saddler-pepp fights, we are not talking close battles: the rematch was ko1, knock out in round 1.
Not some random punch but a total destruction of the louis-schmeling 2 type or prime tyson vs nobody.

and the first fight was won by griffin on the canvas...
oh wait that's the way you think DM would have won against jones, now I see the picture

In Griffin's brother's own words after he fought DM, "Montell felt treated unjust in the Olympic Games and in the second Jones fight, where he was rushed into the ring before he could warm up. But there is no doubt that he lost tonight."

Yeah and Griffin was owning him in the first fight, so what's your point. :439:

There is no way Roy would whitewash Michalczewski. Jones' power would not keep Michalczewski off. Michalczewski would pursue him with his excellent left jab and eventually start to land and then start landing power punches and eventually KO Jones. Michalczewski had very quick feet so its not like Jones would dance around him all night, not a possiblity.

Michalczewski's jab is so powerfull he could stagger Jones wit his straight left alone.

The Jones's fanboys here have never seen a prime DM fight during his prime. They'll continue to show there blind love for Roy Jones Jr. no matter what you say.

The Jones's fanboys here have never seen a prime DM fight during his prime. They'll continue to show there blind love for Roy Jones Jr. no matter what you say.

That may be true about the "fanboys." But those who keep championing DM are missing one point: if he'd wanted the fight so bad, he could have come over to LV anytime to do it. It is his dependence on European locales that kept this fight from happening. The PPV folks rely on boxing fans as their core base, of course, but the gravy's in the semi-interested fan--the one they can't count on--calling up and ordering the fight. And that's going to happen if RJJ's name is on the card--not Michelczewski's.

Jones brought thousands of fairweather fans (and in show business, it's about the money, honey) to the fight game. His fights were exciting, talked about, and watched by many more than the usual core. Good on him for promoting the hell outta the sport.

I don't have any blind love for any fighter. Impress me, and I'll give you props. And RJJ impressed me. With his speed and his heart--a heart which marked the end of his career as much as his rise. I think he was done because he lost the hunger, not because he lost the ability.

Top 10 all-time middleweight? Probably. Top 10 all-time promoter of the sport? Unquestionably.

The Jones's fanboys here have never seen a prime DM fight during his prime. They'll continue to show there blind love for Roy Jones Jr. no matter what you say.You don't know me but you are right. I am a huge RJJ fan and he dominated every fighter he got in the ring with for years.

This,"Michalczewski's jab is so powerfull he could stagger Jones wit his straight left alone.", is bull****.

Jones at his peak and Mich at his; how would that play out again?

The Jones's fanboys here have never seen a prime DM fight during his prime. They'll continue to show there blind love for Roy Jones Jr. no matter what you say.
Hypothetically speaking ... if you'd never seen Roy fight and did see only Darius who the **** would you be picking now?

The same guy but you'd be ignorant as **** concerning Roy. Hmm, maybe you are anyway.

I haven't seen Darius but many of my friends have who are great boxing guys. I've discussed this on a level unlikely to be matched here but I've yet to see many guys who fairly glow talkin about Mich's skills without a protagonist.

Lessee, he's aggressive, can take a punch, slow ...

You'll have to help out here, that's all I've heard.

Like I've already said, just like he whitewashed Griffin in their first fight. :buttkick:Well, he did knock him the **** out. Got disqualified for it. But Montell was taking a knee for somehting wasn't he?

Maybe it was gas or something.

With DM it was as much his fault the fight didn't happen as it was Jones. He could have come here, if he really wanted the fight. Jones refused to fight across seas, and this guy refused to. It's silly to say Jones ducked him.

Also, with Griffin - Jones I. Were we all watching the same fight? Jones lost a bunch of rounds early, but he was on an upward curve. He was going to beat Griffin. Even if his punch was illegal, he would have won on points, or KOed him later. He had put him down in the 7th, which would have evened the match. Had he not been DQ'ed the fight would have already been in Jones favor, because of two KD's. The fight would have ended with Griffin losing, just as the second fight did. And let us all remember the second fight where Jones abused Griffin.

Shoalin, the punch that hurt him was illegal. But then again, Griffin wasn't exactly fighting clean either, remember the shoulder?

Dude, I may be a goose, but how do you get photos to come up in your sig??!!

That may be true about the "fanboys." But those who keep championing DM are missing one point: if he'd wanted the fight so bad, he could have come over to LV anytime to do it. It is his dependence on European locales that kept this fight from happening.

Its beyond me why you would expect DM to come to fight RJJ in America where the judges would have biased in favor of RJJ so they never would have given him a fair shake and where RJJ was offering him chump change.

Hypothetically speaking ... if you'd never seen Roy fight and did see only Darius who the **** would you be picking now?

The same guy but you'd be ignorant as **** concerning Roy. Hmm, maybe you are anyway.

I haven't seen Darius but many of my friends have who are great boxing guys. I've discussed this on a level unlikely to be matched here but I've yet to see many guys who fairly glow talkin about Mich's skills without a protagonist.

Lessee, he's aggressive, can take a punch, slow ...

You'll have to help out here, that's all I've heard.

That's because I'm guessing they've only seen DM vs. Hall I and II, Harmon, and Gonzalez. Which is not DM during his prime. And RJJ would easily have beaten that DM. In fact I'd pick RJJ if they fought anytime after 2000 except for the Jones that showed up against Johnson. DM was not slow during his prime either so that's the dead give away that they havne't seen a prime DM.

With DM it was as much his fault the fight didn't happen as it was Jones. He could have come here, if he really wanted the fight. Jones refused to fight across seas, and this guy refused to. It's silly to say Jones ducked him.

Also, with Griffin - Jones I. Were we all watching the same fight? Jones lost a bunch of rounds early, but he was on an upward curve. He was going to beat Griffin. Even if his punch was illegal, he would have won on points, or KOed him later. He had put him down in the 7th, which would have evened the match. Had he not been DQ'ed the fight would have already been in Jones favor, because of two KD's. The fight would have ended with Griffin losing, just as the second fight did. And let us all remember the second fight where Jones abused Griffin.

Shoalin, the punch that hurt him was illegal. But then again, Griffin wasn't exactly fighting clean either, remember the shoulder?

When deciding on who ducked who, you have to look at the different offers that were being made.

No you are not understanding me. The punch that Jones landed while Griffin was still standing that hurt him so badly was illegal. Jones lost his cool big time during that fight. The first KD was borderline legit too. It was caused mostly by Jones jumping into Griffin. Griffin would have been up even more had the ref not been biased in favor of Jones.

When deciding on who ducked who, you have to look at the different offers that were being made.

No you are not understanding me. The punch that Jones landed while Griffin was still standing that hurt him so badly was illegal. Jones lost his cool big time during that fight. The first KD was borderline legit too. It was caused mostly by Jones jumping into Griffin. Griffin would have been up even more had the ref not been biased in favor of Jones.I can't disagree with this analysis at except the "first kd was borderline legit". Come on ...

Its beyond me why you would expect DM to come to fight RJJ in America where the judges would have biased in favor of RJJ so they never would have given him a fair shake and where RJJ was offering him chump change.But it's not beyond you understanding Roy declining invitations to GERMANY where decisions were so one sided many mediocre "champions" reigned despite losing several times in reality?

At least any consideration Roy got from the judges was understandable. Those guys weren't worthy of the title, "champion". They were contenders for the most part playing a role. A role they were cast in by their management.

I can't disagree with this analysis at except the "first kd was borderline legit". Come on ...

Why? Look at how off balance Montell was after Jones jumped into him.

But it's not beyond you understanding Roy declining invitations to GERMANY where decisions were so one sided many mediocre "champions" reigned despite losing several times in reality?

At least any consideration Roy got from the judges was understandable. Those guys weren't worthy of the title, "champion". They were contenders for the most part playing a role. A role they were cast in by their management.

I guess I must have missed the several times that DM lost in reality. Like I said before, he had one decision win from 1997-2005 which was against Hill which wasn't close at all.

You don't know me but you are right. I am a huge RJJ fan and he dominated every fighter he got in the ring with for years.

This,"Michalczewski's jab is so powerfull he could stagger Jones wit his straight left alone.", is bull****.

Jones at his peak and Mich at his; how would that play out again?




Jones jr at his prime was way to damn fast. He would come in from all angles leading with his straight right hand. Left to right, Right to left.

Jones jr at his prime was way to damn fast. He would come in from all angles leading with his straight right hand. Left to right, Right to left.

Agreed it would probably end up something like Hagler vs. Hearns, and I think we all know who would be playing the part of Hearns.

You are not comparing DM to either Hagler or Hearns, are you??

You are not comparing DM to either Hagler or Hearns, are you??

Yes I was referring to DM as playing the part of Hagler. I see a resemblance.
http://www.8ung.at/starautogrammfotos/copy/dariusz2.JPG

http://www.boxingvideos.net/images/m-hagler.jpg

heh heh!!!

Agreed it would probably end up something like Hagler vs. Hearns, and I think we all know who would be playing the part of Hearns.

forgetting for a second the blasphemy in the dm-hagler comparison...

I am wondering if you ever saw jones and hearns fight?

hearns and jones had very different styles (hearns all offense, roy jones, well... no ;) ), I don't even know how you can think that jones would fight like hearns, he never did, and why would he do it against a banger like DM?

You are not comparing DM to either Hagler or Hearns, are you??



NO he is not. He is using it as a example. 2 good fighters going at war but ended in a quick bout.


Thats the way i took what he said.



heres the facts Roy Jones Jr had skills/talent. He was great, but heres the problem he took a long route and fake number 1 contenders. I'll say this as a fan of roy jones jr, He did have LOTS of talent alot would say this, But he didnt push him self he didnt test his skill vs the hardest the strongest oppent in his era. Overall i look at jones jr as a fighter what he does how he moves thats how i rank jones jr.

Roy Jones is a great fighter. The last two fights when he lost to Tarver and Johnson were fixed.

Roy Jones is a great fighter. The last two fights when he lost to Tarver and Johnson were fixed.


Bull****, He lost fair and square. Roy jones jr has to much of a ego to lose on purpose that post was just out right stupid of you,.

forgetting for a second the blasphemy in the dm-hagler comparison...

I am wondering if you ever saw jones and hearns fight?

hearns and jones had very different styles (hearns all offense, roy jones, well... no ;) ), I don't even know how you can think that jones would fight like hearns, he never did, and why would he do it against a banger like DM?

I said that the ending would be like Hearns vs. Hagler with DM KOing RJJ. How about actually reading my post next time.

Yes I was referring to DM as playing the part of Hagler. I see a resemblance.
http://www.8ung.at/starautogrammfotos/copy/dariusz2.JPG

http://www.boxingvideos.net/images/m-hagler.jpgWell ... they both have two arms ... hmmm ....

I guess I must have missed the several times that DM lost in reality. Like I said before, he had one decision win from 1997-2005 which was against Hill which wasn't close at all.I was referring to those other guys who had the great records and long reigns almost entirely due to friendly judges and promoters.

Their names escape me; maybe you can help me out.

I was referring to those other guys who had the great records and long reigns almost entirely due to friendly judges and promoters.

Their names escape me; maybe you can help me out.

I would imagine that one of them who you are talking about is Ottke, but I don't know who else you are talking about.

Roy Jones is a great fighter. The last two fights when he lost to Tarver and Johnson were fixed.

There is no way on earth the Tarver fight was fixed. Nor was the damn Johnson fight!. He got KTFO, really bad. Was he lying on the canvas for 10 minutes because RJJ was faking it? what the hell? :no:

http://www.lasvegasphotography.com/Picture_of_the_week/tarver_jones_mat_051504.jpg

I dunno man, his head still looks firmly attached in that photo and he shows no signs of bleeding out of his anus. I think he could have gotten up.

FIX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I put Deuskie on the ignore list. I recommend that you all do the same.

he's powerful but he has never been that challenged. he took a beating against johnson and a huge KO from tarver. .... all time great? nah... he's far from true fighters who has the passion fighting not for bling blings and money.

Anyone who think's DM ko'ing Roy in 2 is a likely scenario, is a fool, plain and simple. And you call Roy Jones' fans fanboys...wow.

Yeah and Griffin was owning him in the first fight, so what's your point.

You're joking right? The knockdowns put Jones in the lead and he was on the way to a KO anyway. I don't know if Jones would dominate DM but it certainly isn't out of the question. However, on the flip side you'll find very few people who think DM would have dominated Jones.

Griffin's fight with Jones would be very different than a fight with DM. Of all people you should know that, or did I mistake you for someone with a bit of intellect?

Jones made many of his opponents look like bums and many of them went on to be champs soon after. You cannot detract from Roy for making them look like fools. That's his job. Also, if you look at it objectively, there simply is not enough evidence than your own bias to suggest that Roy ducked "everybody".

Lastly, please hush your mouth about DM getting stiffed for money. He was not considered the champ, or the best in the division. A fight with Roy would have gotten him decent money, at least in the millions, and more importanly it would have gotten him recognition. I bet you criticize Roy for looking at money first, but one might argue that your man DM did just that. Perhaps he saw a fight with Roy with less confidence than what you saw.

Of course DM has no problem fighting Roy in Germany, but you'd be a fool to expect Roy to go there after all the things that have happened there with Beyer, Ottke, DM, and others. Please tell me you are not that naive.

he took a beating against johnson and a huge KO from tarver. .... all time great? nah

LOL...you base his career on those fights? You need to watch his career set and you will quickly realize that Roy IS one of the greatest of all time, and he will go down that way because it is true, whether you like it or not.

LOL...you base his career on those fights? You need to watch his career set and you will quickly realize that Roy IS one of the greatest of all time, and he will go down that way because it is true, whether you like it or not.

his was not a challenging division. so how can you say so. he fought nobody's. he chose his opponents. hopkins was the only renowned fighter he fought and he could've lost that one. and so when he faced a true fighter in johnson, was that how great he was? i like jones, but im not considering him the best. below the top ten greats i guess... dont get bitter dude.

Anyone who think's DM ko'ing Roy in 2 is a likely scenario, is a fool, plain and simple. And you call Roy Jones' fans fanboys...wow.



You're joking right? The knockdowns put Jones in the lead and he was on the way to a KO anyway. I don't know if Jones would dominate DM but it certainly isn't out of the question. However, on the flip side you'll find very few people who think DM would have dominated Jones.

Griffin's fight with Jones would be very different than a fight with DM. Of all people you should know that, or did I mistake you for someone with a bit of intellect?

Jones made many of his opponents look like bums and many of them went on to be champs soon after. You cannot detract from Roy for making them look like fools. That's his job. Also, if you look at it objectively, there simply is not enough evidence than your own bias to suggest that Roy ducked "everybody".

Lastly, please hush your mouth about DM getting stiffed for money. He was not considered the champ, or the best in the division. A fight with Roy would have gotten him decent money, at least in the millions, and more importanly it would have gotten him recognition. I bet you criticize Roy for looking at money first, but one might argue that your man DM did just that. Perhaps he saw a fight with Roy with less confidence than what you saw.

Of course DM has no problem fighting Roy in Germany, but you'd be a fool to expect Roy to go there after all the things that have happened there with Beyer, Ottke, DM, and others. Please tell me you are not that naive.

Take a look for yourself he was losing. And reread my previous posts about both KDs.

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=001758

I missed anyone who Jones destroyed at LHW who became a champ. Woods with zero defenses beating an American fraud who couldn't even beat a shot Montell and Hill who DM destroyed first are all you have to offer? I can't think of a single fighter that Jones fought during his prime with DM KO power. Enlighten me, who did he fight with that kind of power? What happened with Beyer and DM? Please tell me.

Take a look for yourself he was losing. And reread my previous posts about both KDs.

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=001758

I missed anyone who Jones destroyed at LHW who became a champ. Woods with zero defenses beating an American fraud who couldn't even beat a shot Montell and Hill who DM destroyed first are all you have to offer? I can't think of a single fighter that Jones fought during his prime with DM KO power. Enlighten me, who did he fight with that kind of power? What happened with Beyer and DM? Please tell me.

1) the scorecards are of course after 8 rounds, he means the kds in round 9 legitimate or not would ahve put him ahead on the scorecards

2) Virgil Hill destroyed by dm? maybe but it took dm 12 rounds, while rj did it in 4 rounds... with a bodyshot

3)let's put it this way:
rj did not fight anyone with dm power, ok

so yes there is a chance that he gets KTFO but how big is this chance? cos, you know, just like when you cross the road you have achance of being run over, everytime you step in the ring you have achance of getting KOed

let's see how big is this chance?
did dm fight anyone with rj speed, unorthodox style, ring generalship and, given dm opposition opposition, power?

I think it's not really fair to judge Roy Jones' career based on getting knocked out in those last two fights. Sugar Ray Robinson lost 5 fights in his last year of boxing ... I hope no one would suggest he wasn't any good because of those losses.

Roy Jones was a terrific boxer. I think it's pretty hard to make a case that he wasn't.

Anyone who think's DM ko'ing Roy in 2 is a likely scenario, is a fool, plain and simple. And you call Roy Jones' fans fanboys...wow.



You're joking right? The knockdowns put Jones in the lead and he was on the way to a KO anyway. I don't know if Jones would dominate DM but it certainly isn't out of the question. However, on the flip side you'll find very few people who think DM would have dominated Jones.

Griffin's fight with Jones would be very different than a fight with DM. Of all people you should know that, or did I mistake you for someone with a bit of intellect?

Jones made many of his opponents look like bums and many of them went on to be champs soon after. You cannot detract from Roy for making them look like fools. That's his job. Also, if you look at it objectively, there simply is not enough evidence than your own bias to suggest that Roy ducked "everybody".

Lastly, please hush your mouth about DM getting stiffed for money. He was not considered the champ, or the best in the division. A fight with Roy would have gotten him decent money, at least in the millions, and more importanly it would have gotten him recognition. I bet you criticize Roy for looking at money first, but one might argue that your man DM did just that. Perhaps he saw a fight with Roy with less confidence than what you saw.

Of course DM has no problem fighting Roy in Germany, but you'd be a fool to expect Roy to go there after all the things that have happened there with Beyer, Ottke, DM, and others. Please tell me you are not that naive.



good post. Like i told my friend yesterday this is a forum that i would post a topic like "did you guys see how many knock downs that fighter had" There is a alot of young fans/Newbies to the sport of boxing on this forum. There is a private forum that i am a member of and if you like i would send you a invite. There alot of true topics there and each poster there knows the sport and none of the post are just stupid. Let me know by this is not advertisement i am just leting him know if he wants a forum with people who know boxing.

1) the scorecards are of course after 8 rounds, he means the kds in round 9 legitimate or not would ahve put him ahead on the scorecards

2) Virgil Hill destroyed by dm? maybe but it took dm 12 rounds, while rj did it in 4 rounds... with a bodyshot

3)let's put it this way:
rj did not fight anyone with dm power, ok

so yes there is a chance that he gets KTFO but how big is this chance? cos, you know, just like when you cross the road you have achance of being run over, everytime you step in the ring you have achance of getting KOed

let's see how big is this chance?
did dm fight anyone with rj speed, unorthodox style, ring generalship and, given dm opposition opposition, power?

Saying that someone would be ahead after an illegal KD is not going to cut it. True about Hill, but he was a DM leftover, and every RJJ leftover that DM fought besides Gonzalez, DM finished them (Hall, Harmon, Griffin) off quicker than RJJ could, so I'm not sure how much that means.

No DM did not fight anyone like RJJ, but I'm not saying that it would be a one sided fight either like the naive RJJ fanboys are saying. I am simply giving the nod to power when said power is strong enough to stun badly with a simple jab.

Saying that someone would be ahead after an illegal KD is not going to cut it. True about Hill, but he was a DM leftover, and every RJJ leftover that DM fought besides Gonzalez, DM finished them (Hall, Harmon, Griffin) off quicker than RJJ could, so I'm not sure how much that means.

No DM did not fight anyone like RJJ, but I'm not saying that it would be a one sided fight either like the naive RJJ fanboys are saying. I am simply giving the nod to power when said power is strong enough to stun badly with a simple jab.

who do you think wins in a match roy jones or DM?
i dont know if you ever said or not, i know you like DM a lot more but i dont remember saying who would win in a match.

who do you think wins in a match roy jones or DM?
i dont know if you ever said or not, i know you like DM a lot more but i dont remember saying who would win in a match.

I've always said that it depends on the year.

1997-1998: Roy was still getting adjusted to LHW while DM was fighting the best of his career, so I'd lean towards DM winning.

1999-2000: I thought was a toss up.

2001-2004: besides the Jones that turned up to fight against Johnson, I'd lean towards RJJ winning because DM really faded during this period.

After 2005: they need to retire.

I've always said that it depends on the year.

1997-1998: Roy was still getting adjusted to LHW while DM was fighting the best of his career, so I'd lean towards DM winning.

1999-2000: I thought was a toss up.

2001-2004: besides the Jones that turned up to fight against Johnson, I'd lean towards RJJ winning because DM really faded during this period.

After 2005: they need to retire.

what about prime for prime?
i gotta go with roy

Roy Jones was simply incredible when he was in his prime...

No DM did not fight anyone like RJJ, but I'm not saying that it would be a one sided fight either like the naive RJJ fanboys are saying. I am simply giving the nod to power when said power is strong enough to stun badly with a simple jab.


DM's power jab ain't going to mean jack if he cannot even hit Roy with it cleanly.

In addition, you claim Hill was a "leftover", which is totally false. Roy was the first one to KO him, and DM didn't take Hill out of his prime in one fight. Hill went on to do notable things in a higher divison.

Saying that someone would be ahead after an illegal KD is not going to cut it. True about Hill, but he was a DM leftover, and every RJJ leftover that DM fought besides Gonzalez, DM finished them (Hall, Harmon, Griffin) off quicker than RJJ could, so I'm not sure how much that means.

You're about to get exposed. Jones was ahead on one card at the time of the DQ vs Griffin, and not more than one round behind on either of the other 2 cards. Even without the KD, Roy was on his way to beating Griffin. Watch the fight again.

Also, how can you say Hill was a leftover and Jones' win over him means little, and yet give credit to DM for stoppin Roy's supposed "leftovers".

By the way, DM did not finish off Griffin quicker, it took him 4 rounds, whereas Roy did it in 1 (or is the 1st fight between Roy and Griffin the only one you count?). You might also like to mention that DM lost every round vs Griffin on GERMAN scorecards until DM got the KO.

Also you're suggestion that DM finished Hall quicker is untrue. Roy won every round vs Hall and then TKO'd him in round 11 in 2000, whereas DM won most of the rounds, but not all, struggled with Hall at times, and then TKO'd him in round 11.

Sometmes you tell the truth, but only part of it at best. And yes, DM did finish Harmon quicker...2 years after RJJ did it.

what about prime for prime?
i gotta go with roy

That all depends on when you consider Jones was in his prime.

DM's power jab ain't going to mean jack if he cannot even hit Roy with it cleanly.

In addition, you claim Hill was a "leftover", which is totally false. Roy was the first one to KO him, and DM didn't take Hill out of his prime in one fight. Hill went on to do notable things in a higher divison.



You're about to get exposed. Jones was ahead on one card at the time of the DQ vs Griffin, and not more than one round behind on either of the other 2 cards. Even without the KD, Roy was on his way to beating Griffin. Watch the fight again.

Also, how can you say Hill was a leftover and Jones' win over him means little, and yet give credit to DM for stoppin Roy's supposed "leftovers".

By the way, DM did not finish off Griffin quicker, it took him 4 rounds, whereas Roy did it in 1 (or is the 1st fight between Roy and Griffin the only one you count?). You might also like to mention that DM lost every round vs Griffin on GERMAN scorecards until DM got the KO.

Also you're suggestion that DM finished Hall quicker is untrue. Roy won every round vs Hall and then TKO'd him in round 11 in 2000, whereas DM won most of the rounds, but not all, struggled with Hall at times, and then TKO'd him in round 11.

Sometmes you tell the truth, but only part of it at best. And yes, DM did finish Harmon quicker...2 years after RJJ did it.

If you reread my post, I said that fact that each fighter finished off the other's leftovers means little. I didn't give props to DM while snubbing RJJ over this. DM finished off Griffin during his first try in 4 rounds. Roy didn't finish him off during their first fight, and he got DQ'd trying to do so. Right on the scoring which is why I don't know why so many of you persecute Universum. Perhaps Sauderland (SP?) and Universum are different. I can't think of any unfair Universum decisions off the top of my head like I easily can for Sauderland. DM like Hopkins was a slow starter, and I had it 2 rounds to 1 in the Griffin fight with Griffin on his way to losing the 4th big time. DM finished off Hall 9 seconds before RJJ did, and then in the rematch he TKO'd him in 10 rounds. I missed where you "exposed" me.

That all depends on when you consider Jones was in his prime.

from his stay at 168 to his victory of john ruiz

DM's power jab ain't going to mean jack if he cannot even hit Roy with it cleanly.

.

Michalczewski would be able to find Jones with his left jab I guarantee.. and any version of Jones. Michalczewski in his prime is way quicker than people think and that jab was lightning accurate and powerfull and DM also moved on his feet well, plus Michalczewski is always coming forward. Jones just has the wrong style for Michalczewski. Jones was a great fighter but Michalczewski's style is plain all wrong for him.
And Michalczewski's straight left would be enough to stagger Jones is another thing I guaratee. DM always worked off that left Jab, he would connect with it, he had faster feet than you know, then he would go into combination power punching and KO Jones, no question.

Roy Jones Junior was undoubtably an exceptional talent!

But I think, he could have been SOOOOO MUCH MORE! Had he not avoided the best in every division?

So what will he be remembered as now?

The guy who was a great talent but never was willing to take risks.

Jones fought better competition then Michalczewski throughout his career, in the era when they were at their prime the more money would have been in the US so why didn't DM go there he was probably waitin for a screw job in Germany. Stupid Golota fans watch Tyson and Golota before you speak that ***** just got up and left his stool ahahah that **** had me laughin and his trainer was tellin him "you cant do this" and Golota was like "yes i can that guy is hitting me in the face" what a joke and watchin him walkin back to the changing room with the crowd booin and him gettin covered in everybodys snacks, how could anyone support this guy and criticise Jones fans.

Jones fought better competition then Michalczewski throughout his career, in the era when they were at their prime the more money would have been in the US so why didn't DM go there he was probably waitin for a screw job in Germany.

DM vs. Tiozzo made a lot more money than Johnson vs. Tarver...

Jones fought better competition then Michalczewski throughout his career, in the era when they were at their prime the more money would have been in the US so why didn't DM go there he was probably waitin for a screw job in Germany. Stupid Golota fans watch Tyson and Golota before you speak that ***** just got up and left his stool ahahah that **** had me laughin and his trainer was tellin him "you cant do this" and Golota was like "yes i can that guy is hitting me in the face" what a joke and watchin him walkin back to the changing room with the crowd booin and him gettin covered in everybodys snacks, how could anyone support this guy and criticise Jones fans.

Golota had legitimate reason to quit that fight and he never said anything in the way of "that guy is hitting me in the face." That punch he took from Tyson in the first round fractured a vertebre in his neck. The punch was so hard it did bone damage but Golota got up from it in total coherency.

Even as Golota was walking off getting bood Tyson said to his corner guys "I hurt him." Golota quit because he was injured.

If Golota would have continued in that fight he would have suffered permanent neck damage and probably be walking around in a neck brace right now rather than preparing to fight for the WBO championship.

Yea he should have a tough time against Lamon Brewster someone who managed to get a split decision off Kali Meehan in his last fight, who was destroyed by Danny Williams in one round. Andrew Golota even lost to Michael Grant who i would give a chance against even in his present state

Neuraxis did u read my post properly, when DM and Jones were in their PRIME, i will excuse your minor slip up

Girrin wasnt knocked down by a illegal punch jones hurt griffin. Then went to follow up i am watching the fight right now. And grifin took a knee but before the knee jones landed Then jones ( on purpose Hit griffin once he was already down). Now lets not for the the shoulder bump then left hook that griffin cheap shoted with. Griffin gave jones problems but Jones was on his way to knocking him out i dont give a care what u haters think. I know the facts. i a prime roy jones jr was fast. he would of picked DM apart with his Hand speed pop shoting from the outside. And you act like the rematch doesnt matter. this is pathic, If jones would have beat tarver via ko. All these people would be down talking tarver like he was some bum. People say he avoided bernard hopkins thats why roy told merchant he would go down to 168 and fight tito and bernard. DM THIS dm was garbage prime vs pime lights out dm. i dont even know why i post at such a noob forum witm thick headed people. Matter of fact forget this forum private is the way to post about boxing.

Also guys dont forget the person who is hating has Griffin in his avatar that says a hole lot. When u post about a fighters skills/talent u must look at it from a professional view not a hater or a nuthugger.

I dont even count the Griffin fight as a loss, Jones Knocked him out with one shot in the rematch

Yea that is true about Neuraxis i think he just has a grudge against Jones, maybe he should be angry with Wlad's chin or the fact that his homeboys dress up as cartons of orange juice when its time for an election.

Girrin wasnt knocked down by a illegal punch jones hurt griffin. Then went to follow up i am watching the fight right now. And grifin took a knee but before the knee jones landed Then jones ( on purpose Hit griffin once he was already down). Now lets not for the the shoulder bump then left hook that griffin cheap shoted with. Griffin gave jones problems but Jones was on his way to knocking him out i dont give a care what u haters think. I know the facts. i a prime roy jones jr was fast. he would of picked DM apart with his Hand speed pop shoting from the outside. And you act like the rematch doesnt matter. this is pathic, If jones would have beat tarver via ko. All these people would be down talking tarver like he was some bum. People say he avoided bernard hopkins thats why roy told merchant he would go down to 168 and fight tito and bernard. DM THIS dm was garbage prime vs pime lights out dm. i dont even know why i post at such a noob forum witm thick headed people. Matter of fact forget this forum private is the way to post about boxing.

Also guys dont forget the person who is hating has Griffin in his avatar that says a hole lot. When u post about a fighters skills/talent u must look at it from a professional view not a hater or a nuthugger.

Wait so according to you its legal to hit someone in the back of the head? That's news to me.

Yea that is true about Neuraxis i think he just has a grudge against Jones, maybe he should be angry with Wlad's chin or the fact that his homeboys dress up as cartons of orange juice when its time for an election.

So I'm not allowed to be a fan of Griffin now? Griffin get's no respect. Its pretty shameful how he is treated.

Girrin wasnt knocked down by a illegal punch jones hurt griffin. Then went to follow up i am watching the fight right now. And grifin took a knee but before the knee jones landed Then jones ( on purpose Hit griffin once he was already down). Now lets not for the the shoulder bump then left hook that griffin cheap shoted with. Griffin gave jones problems but Jones was on his way to knocking him out i dont give a care what u haters think. I know the facts. i a prime roy jones jr was fast. he would of picked DM apart with his Hand speed pop shoting from the outside. And you act like the rematch doesnt matter. this is pathic, If jones would have beat tarver via ko. All these people would be down talking tarver like he was some bum. People say he avoided bernard hopkins thats why roy told merchant he would go down to 168 and fight tito and bernard. DM THIS dm was garbage prime vs pime lights out dm. i dont even know why i post at such a noob forum witm thick headed people. Matter of fact forget this forum private is the way to post about boxing.

Also guys dont forget the person who is hating has Griffin in his avatar that says a hole lot. When u post about a fighters skills/talent u must look at it from a professional view not a hater or a nuthugger.


I don't see how I am hating. Hating is saying crap like you just posted with no evidence or reasoning to back it up. The fact that you call DM garbage just basically shows who the noob is. You are nothing more than a shameless Jones fanboy who won't allow differing opinions.

Is garabe german?

If you reread my post, I said that fact that each fighter finished off the other's leftovers means little. I didn't give props to DM while snubbing RJJ over this. DM finished off Griffin during his first try in 4 rounds. Roy didn't finish him off during their first fight, and he got DQ'd trying to do so. Right on the scoring which is why I don't know why so many of you persecute Universum. Perhaps Sauderland (SP?) and Universum are different. I can't think of any unfair Universum decisions off the top of my head like I easily can for Sauderland. DM like Hopkins was a slow starter, and I had it 2 rounds to 1 in the Griffin fight with Griffin on his way to losing the 4th big time. DM finished off Hall 9 seconds before RJJ did, and then in the rematch he TKO'd him in 10 rounds. I missed where you "exposed" me.

I just read your post, and read it carefully, and it definitely does not say that the leftovers mean little. In any case, yes, you are "exposed" in your argument that Roy's win over Hill means little, if that is what you are saying (unless you are going to backtrack again). Roy KO'd him with one shot and Hill went on to be cruiserweight champion.

One example of fair-scoring does not indicate all his fights were without controversy. One of the Hall fights definitely had controversy as many who watched the fight felt DM could have been stopped by the same token that Hall was later in the fight. Also in regards to Hall, 9 secs faster...are you kidding me? Are you actually serious? Why say that if you think it means nothing? After all, Roy ha TKO'd him in 11 before DM did it. Also, you cannot simply say DM stopped Hall earlier than RJ did in the 2nd fight in round 10, because Hall had just been in a tough fight with DM and before that was TKO'd by Roy himself.

You say Roy didn't finsih him off (Griffin). Again you are getting exposed because you never put things into context. Roy was definitely going to KO him, and if you say anything less, you are a "fanboy" yourself. Since you seem so unable to give Roy credit for anything, can you tell me why it took DM 4 rounds to take out Griffin after Roy had already done so in 1 round?

You say you don't snub RJJ, but that's exactly what you do when you never pu things into context and only mention things in a way that seem to favor DM. Anyone can do that...

I just read your post, and read it carefully, and it definitely does not say that the leftovers mean little. In any case, yes, you are "exposed" in your argument that Roy's win over Hill means little, if that is what you are saying (unless you are going to backtrack again). Roy KO'd him with one shot and Hill went on to be cruiserweight champion.

One example of fair-scoring does not indicate all his fights were without controversy. One of the Hall fights definitely had controversy as many who watched the fight felt DM could have been stopped by the same token that Hall was later in the fight. Also in regards to Hall, 9 secs faster...are you kidding me? Are you actually serious? Why say that if you think it means nothing? After all, Roy ha TKO'd him in 11 before DM did it. Also, you cannot simply say DM stopped Hall earlier than RJ did in the 2nd fight in round 10, because Hall had just been in a tough fight with DM and before that was TKO'd by Roy himself.

You say Roy didn't finsih him off (Griffin). Again you are getting exposed because you never put things into context. Roy was definitely going to KO him, and if you say anything less, you are a "fanboy" yourself. Since you seem so unable to give Roy credit for anything, can you tell me why it took DM 4 rounds to take out Griffin after Roy had already done so in 1 round?

You say you don't snub RJJ, but that's exactly what you do when you never pu things into context and only mention things in a way that seem to favor DM. Anyone can do that...

In terms of arguing who is better beating leftovers means little. If you are going to rant and rave about RJJ KOing Hill in his next fight after getting destroyed by DM, then I am going to have to bring up DM being the first to KO Harmon which Jones couldn't do. The last time I checked the judges were never involved in stopping the Hall fight. You may have some inside information that I don't have, but I wasn't aware that judges stop fights. DM was winning that fight as well so the stoppage didn't matter. DM dominated Hall in the rematch, so I'm not sure why you would expect them to stop it, also when it didn't even go as long as the first match. And the last time I checked Hall had nearly a year to recover from that first fight, while DM fought again in 4 months. Reread my posts, I never said that RJJ wasn't going to be able to stop Griffin had the fight continued. Again you need to reread my post with regards to who I think would win if you think that I can't give RJJ credit for anything. And the last time I checked I give RJJ loads more credit than you and the other RJJ fans give DM.

Saying that someone would be ahead after an illegal KD is not going to cut it. True about Hill, but he was a DM leftover, and every RJJ leftover that DM fought besides Gonzalez, DM finished them (Hall, Harmon, Griffin) off quicker than RJJ could, so I'm not sure how much that means.

No DM did not fight anyone like RJJ, but I'm not saying that it would be a one sided fight either like the naive RJJ fanboys are saying. I am simply giving the nod to power when said power is strong enough to stun badly with a simple jab.

list of common opposition (for what it matters... but, as you see, it's simply not true that hall, harmon, griffin were put away quicker)


hill
dm ud12 (97)
rj ko4 (98)

griffin
rj L dq9 (97)
ko1 (97)
dm tk4 (99)

hall
rj tk11 (00)
dm tk11 (01)
tk10 (02)

harmon
rj tk11 (01)
dm ko9 (03)

gonzalez
rj ud12 (01)
dm L sd12 (03)

anyway I still the think the fight would be one-sided, but more than anyhing else, boring, rj would get the most boring decision of his career cos he would never take anything close to a risk for the whole fight, he would maybe even win every round by moving moving moving... pot shotting here and there, but mostly just running, a boring fight but running was something rj could do very well.

dm's style is a style which would not be the easiest for rj, but one you can easily train for. how the hell would dm train for a prime jones? hell he should have got mosley as a sparring partner (only for a few rounds as he would decapitate shane as he hits him)

Now from what I have seen of dm (hill and griffin, and I assume that the hill fight took place in dm prime) I don't think that dm's workrate, movement and speed would prevent rj from dancing around and maybe buffooning sometimes, what I think is that dm's power would prevent him from ever being offensive. Would rj win the fight? yes. would he win it style? definitely no.

of course these are my opinions, you are entitled to yours.

oops I left this post open and I realized the question has already been debated

list of common opposition (for what it matters... but, as you see, it's simply not true that hall, harmon, griffin were put away quicker)


hill
dm ud12 (97)
rj ko4 (98)

griffin
rj L dq9 (97)
ko1 (97)
dm tk4 (99)

hall
rj tk11 (00)
dm tk11 (01)
tk10 (02)

harmon
rj tk11 (01)
dm ko9 (03)

gonzalez
rj ud12 (01)
dm L sd12 (03)

anyway I still the think the fight would be one-sided, but more than anyhing else, boring, rj would get the most boring decision of his career cos he would never take anything close to a risk for the whole fight, he would maybe even win every round by moving moving moving... pot shotting here and there, but mostly just running, a boring fight but running was something rj could do very well.

dm's style is a style which would not be the easiest for rj, but one you can easily train for. how the hell would dm train for a prime jones? hell he should have got mosley as a sparring partner (only for a few rounds as he would decapitate shane as he hits him)

Now from what I have seen of dm (hill and griffin, and I assume that the hill fight took place in dm prime) I don't think that dm's workrate, movement and speed would prevent rj from dancing around and maybe buffooning sometimes, what I think is that dm's power would prevent him from ever being offensive. Would rj win the fight? yes. would he win it style? definitely no.

of course these are my opinions, you are entitled to yours.

I'm not sure what you were getting at with the first part of your post, but I have no problem with your analysis of the fight because its thought out and it isn't filled with random crap like RJJ would stop DM. I could maybe even see Roy dancing all night like you say. But I also think that in order to do that he would have to be in the best shape of his career and that he wouldn't be able to let his pride get in the way by fighting like that which I'm not sure he would be able to do. If Roy isn't in tip top shape I could see the fight playing out very similar to Freitas vs. Corrales except I don't think Roy would quit.

If Roy isn't in tip top shape I could see the fight playing out very similar to Freitas vs. Corrales except I don't think Roy would quit.

hehe if rj got hit flush, he would go down for the count, he would not even have the option of quitting :)

ppl saw rj destroy some fighters, and think he can do the same with ANY fighter... I personally think that by making him a god they are downplaying his achievements

In terms of arguing who is better beating leftovers means little. If you are going to rant and rave about RJJ KOing Hill in his next fight after getting destroyed by DM, then I am going to have to bring up DM being the first to KO Harmon which Jones couldn't do. The last time I checked the judges were never involved in stopping the Hall fight. You may have some inside information that I don't have, but I wasn't aware that judges stop fights. DM was winning that fight as well so the stoppage didn't matter. DM dominated Hall in the rematch, so I'm not sure why you would expect them to stop it, also when it didn't even go as long as the first match. And the last time I checked Hall had nearly a year to recover from that first fight, while DM fought again in 4 months. Reread my posts, I never said that RJJ wasn't going to be able to stop Griffin had the fight continued. Again you need to reread my post with regards to who I think would win if you think that I can't give RJJ credit for anything. And the last time I checked I give RJJ loads more credit than you and the other RJJ fans give DM.



you keep going on about DM DM DM. is there anything else other then about how dm would whip roy. Not saying dm couldnt win but jones would make him look like any other oppent. same thing happen to james toney the 168 champ. toney could probably beat jones but why didnt he because jones was damn fast. Jones wouldnt allow dm to connect with a big shot. Jones has been in a 10 period less then any fighter. Even when he got KTFO by tarver is was 1 punch.

In terms of arguing who is better beating leftovers means little. If you are going to rant and rave about RJJ KOing Hill in his next fight after getting destroyed by DM, then I am going to have to bring up DM being the first to KO Harmon which Jones couldn't do. The last time I checked the judges were never involved in stopping the Hall fight. You may have some inside information that I don't have, but I wasn't aware that judges stop fights. DM was winning that fight as well so the stoppage didn't matter. DM dominated Hall in the rematch, so I'm not sure why you would expect them to stop it, also when it didn't even go as long as the first match. And the last time I checked Hall had nearly a year to recover from that first fight, while DM fought again in 4 months. Reread my posts, I never said that RJJ wasn't going to be able to stop Griffin had the fight continued. Again you need to reread my post with regards to who I think would win if you think that I can't give RJJ credit for anything. And the last time I checked I give RJJ loads more credit than you and the other RJJ fans give DM.

If anyone is ranting and raving, it is you. I am making a simple point that your information has been misleading. Also, you should take a class on reading comprehension. I never implied judges could stop fights, I said, "One example of fair-scoring does not indicate all his fights were without controversy." The referee's actions were questionable in the fight, not the judges neccessarily. That is pretty easy to interpret by reading my post. Keep up, please. By the way, your info is misleading again because Roy does hold a stoppage win over Harmon (as does DM).

The stoppage of the Hall fight DID matter, whether DM was winning or not, because there were times when it looked as though DM could have been stopped and yet they waited until he came back and hurt HALL and the stopped the fight (which is my opinion). Taking a year to "recover"? Think about that for a second. Effects in a ring war in many cases NEVER go away. I'm simply saying you cannot tell people on here that DM stopped Hall faster than RJJ did without putting it into context; that in fact they both stopped him in the same round, RJ had actually fought him and stoped him 1st, and that DM stopped him earlier than RJJ but in a rematch. There's nothing wrong with stating the whole truth.

Maybe you do give RJJ credit, but I haven't really seen it much because your posts seem to spin things to favor DM. I just want to keep the record in context, and true, that's all. I need not rant or rave about anything.

My opinion on DM for the record is he was the best lightheavy outside of Roy in recent times, deserves the hall of fame, but also that he could have had much more fame and success if he had just fought some top 10 guys in the U.S. However, you cannot detract from what DM did no matter where he fought because it is a fact that he was a badass for a good while.

I don't agree with people who say DM is *********, they probably never watched him fight. He was very good. Additonally, I agree with you about Montell Griffin, he was a very good fighter also (undefeated when he met RJJ and won rounds vs RJJ and DM and also he beat Toney twice). Griffin just didn't have a lot of fans because he had no power and a perceived "boring" style.

. Not saying dm couldnt win but jones would make him look like any other oppent. same thing happen to james toney the 168 champ. toney could probably beat jones but why didnt he because jones was damn fast. .

YOu comparing Toney and Michalczewski. Toney and Michalczewski have nothing in common at all except the fact they are both good fighters. Jones's style is plain all wrong for Toney, he is a defensive fighter and so is Jones, but Jones is faster so Toney had no Chance. Michalczewski also has faster feet than Toney and and way better more powerfull jab, plus Michalczewski has an agressors style whereas, Toney is not good in the role of the agressor. Jones style is all wrong for Toney straight up. But Michalczewski's style is all wrong for Jones. Styles make fights. Michalczewski in his prime had the pefect style to beat Jones. He would be able to land the quick straight left and that might even be enough to stagger Jones or at least set up his other power punching.

Michalczewski also has faster feet than Toney and and way better more powerfull jab, plus Michalczewski has an agressors style whereas, Toney is not good in the role of the agressor. Jones style is all wrong for Toney straight up. But Michalczewski's style is all wrong for Jones. Styles make fights. Michalczewski in his prime had the pefect style to beat Jones. He would be able to land the quick straight left and that might even be enough to stagger Jones or at least set up his other power punching.

Toney has as good footspeed as DM. Easy. He may not use his feet much, but he has just as good footspeed.

DM's style is not all wrong for Jones. The same thing could be said for DM, that Roy's style is DM's demise. Roy has faced bigger and stronger fighters than himself who are aggressive and has beaten them. DM is very good but Roy isn't just going to sit there and trade and get hit. He will get hit rarely, like in all of his fights, and DM will have to be very patient and even then it still might not work.

DM is an orthodox fighter, 2 inches taller than Roy, but Roy has the 4" advantage in reach. If DM was southpaw with longer arms it might be a different story, but even then, Roy has abused southpaws and even beat Tarver when he was past his prime.

If Jones and DM fought, Roy would be all over the place with crazy head movement and he would be the hardest guy to hit that DM has ever faced. Whoever wins the fight would have to be very dedicated and focused with their gameplan. If this is an easy fight, I think more people would agree that it'd be easy for Roy if anyone. We could take a poll perhaps.

If anyone is ranting and raving, it is you. I am making a simple point that your information has been misleading. Also, you should take a class on reading comprehension. I never implied judges could stop fights, I said, "One example of fair-scoring does not indicate all his fights were without controversy." The referee's actions were questionable in the fight, not the judges neccessarily. That is pretty easy to interpret by reading my post. Keep up, please. By the way, your info is misleading again because Roy does hold a stoppage win over Harmon (as does DM).

The stoppage of the Hall fight DID matter, whether DM was winning or not, because there were times when it looked as though DM could have been stopped and yet they waited until he came back and hurt HALL and the stopped the fight (which is my opinion). Taking a year to "recover"? Think about that for a second. Effects in a ring war in many cases NEVER go away. I'm simply saying you cannot tell people on here that DM stopped Hall faster than RJJ did without putting it into context; that in fact they both stopped him in the same round, RJ had actually fought him and stoped him 1st, and that DM stopped him earlier than RJJ but in a rematch. There's nothing wrong with stating the whole truth.

Maybe you do give RJJ credit, but I haven't really seen it much because your posts seem to spin things to favor DM. I just want to keep the record in context, and true, that's all. I need not rant or rave about anything.

My opinion on DM for the record is he was the best lightheavy outside of Roy in recent times, deserves the hall of fame, but also that he could have had much more fame and success if he had just fought some top 10 guys in the U.S. However, you cannot detract from what DM did no matter where he fought because it is a fact that he was a badass for a good while.

I don't agree with people who say DM is *********, they probably never watched him fight. He was very good. Additonally, I agree with you about Montell Griffin, he was a very good fighter also (undefeated when he met RJJ and won rounds vs RJJ and DM and also he beat Toney twice). Griffin just didn't have a lot of fans because he had no power and a perceived "boring" style.

Well maybe you can take the reading comprehension class with me. I said DM was the first person to KO Harmon. Jones did not KO Harmon. I agree somewhat with your analysis of Hall vs. DM I. The only two rounds that Hall clearly won were the 9th and 10th round, but DM came back in the 11th and Hall was doing nothing but getting tagged left and right before the ref jumped in to have the ring doctor look at his eye. I don't know what you are talking about you wanting them to stop the fight when DM was hurt. As far as the ref, I would assume that you are talking about him warning Hall for the kidney punch. Rewatch the round Hall throws another one 10 seconds after being warned, and he throws another one with 10 seconds left in the round when DM had him hurt. If the ref was so bad, Hall is lucky that he didn't have a point deducted, not that it would have mattered though. I also agree with your analysis of the effects of a ring war. Take for instance DM vs. Hill. Hill goes through a brutal fight with DM and then in his next fight he, he fights RJJ. It works both ways. At least we seem to be coming to more common ground here.

you keep going on about DM DM DM. is there anything else other then about how dm would whip roy. Not saying dm couldnt win but jones would make him look like any other oppent. same thing happen to james toney the 168 champ. toney could probably beat jones but why didnt he because jones was damn fast. Jones wouldnt allow dm to connect with a big shot. Jones has been in a 10 period less then any fighter. Even when he got KTFO by tarver is was 1 punch.

Toney doesn't have anywhere near DM's power though.

Well maybe you can take the reading comprehension class with me. I said DM was the first person to KO Harmon. Jones did not KO Harmon. I agree somewhat with your analysis of Hall vs. DM I. The only two rounds that Hall clearly won were the 9th and 10th round, but DM came back in the 11th and Hall was doing nothing but getting tagged left and right before the ref jumped in to have the ring doctor look at his eye. I don't know what you are talking about you wanting them to stop the fight when DM was hurt. As far as the ref, I would assume that you are talking about him warning Hall for the kidney punch. Rewatch the round Hall throws another one 10 seconds after being warned, and he throws another one with 10 seconds left in the round when DM had him hurt. If the ref was so bad, Hall is lucky that he didn't have a point deducted, not that it would have mattered though. I also agree with your analysis of the effects of a ring war. Take for instance DM vs. Hill. Hill goes through a brutal fight with DM and then in his next fight he, he fights RJJ. It works both ways. At least we seem to be coming to more common ground here.

It doesn't always work simply though. Hill still had 3-4 good years left in him when DM beat him, and you have to consider that one single punch KO'd him and to that point Hill had never been KO'd. Hall was never as good a fighter as Hill was, and DM really took Richard Hall's prime away. My point is this, to be clear...Hall was finsihed off by DM, but Hill was not. Hill had plenty in the tank after fighting Roy, and did not lose due to age or a long grueling fight to Roy, but rather got blasted with one punch.

The problem I have with you saying DM was the first to "KO" Harmon is that it is misleading to some people who don't know their history...makes it sound like Harmon had never been stopped up to that point. Of course, he was stopped vs RJJ (busted eardrum).

With regards to the ref, I don't really think he was awful, but he didn't do a great job either and in my opinion he was biased in favor of DM, and perhaps might have stopped DM at some point if he were not in favor of DM. However, I agree that the stoppage itself of Hall was legit, because Hall was getting torn into and his eye was ****ed up. I did not mean to imply the ref was so bad, perhaps I should have been clearer. My overall point is there were enough shenanigans in Germany to make it unreasonable to expect Roy to fight there. It just would not be worth the risk regardless of the promoter (in my opinion). Also I think it's fair to note that DM was just a bit past his prime when he fought Hall.

It doesn't always work simply though. Hill still had 3-4 good years left in him when DM beat him, and you have to consider that one single punch KO'd him and to that point Hill had never been KO'd. Hall was never as good a fighter as Hill was, and DM really took Richard Hall's prime away. My point is this, to be clear...Hall was finsihed off by DM, but Hill was not. Hill had plenty in the tank after fighting Roy, and did not lose due to age or a long grueling fight to Roy, but rather got blasted with one punch.

The problem I have with you saying DM was the first to "KO" Harmon is that it is misleading to some people who don't know their history...makes it sound like Harmon had never been stopped up to that point. Of course, he was stopped vs RJJ (busted eardrum).

With regards to the ref, I don't really think he was awful, but he didn't do a great job either and in my opinion he was biased in favor of DM, and perhaps might have stopped DM at some point if he were not in favor of DM. However, I agree that the stoppage itself of Hall was legit, because Hall was getting torn into and his eye was ****ed up. I did not mean to imply the ref was so bad, perhaps I should have been clearer. My overall point is there were enough shenanigans in Germany to make it unreasonable to expect Roy to fight there. It just would not be worth the risk regardless of the promoter (in my opinion). Also I think it's fair to note that DM was just a bit past his prime when he fought Hall.

I think that the Hall/Hill issue also has to do with the fact that Hill is an ATG and Hall is not. And as far as DM being past his prime when he fought Hall, I've been saying all along that RJJ would have beaten DM after 2000 pretty easily.

The James Toney that Jones fought was faster, smarter & generally about 3 levels above DM. And Toney could barely get near RJJ, let alone land a solid punch. Who cares about power if you're not landing?

The James Toney that Jones fought was faster, smarter & generally about 3 levels above DM. And Toney could barely get near RJJ, let alone land a solid punch. Who cares about power if you're not landing?

Toney is a defensive fighter, that is the last style you want against Roy Jones Jr. and Michalczewski has a polar opposite agressors style than Toney, plus he moves better on his feet. Toney is horrible as an agressor and thats the style you need against Jones.

The James Toney that Jones fought was faster, smarter & generally about 3 levels above DM. And Toney could barely get near RJJ, let alone land a solid punch. Who cares about power if you're not landing?


Toney was 3 levels above Michalczewski hmmm OK

Thats why Toney lost 2 descisions to Montell Griffin and Michalczewski knocked him out in 4 rounds.

Toney was 3 levels above Michalczewski hmmm OK

Thats why Toney lost 2 descisions to Montell Griffin and Michalczewski knocked him out in 4 rounds.


James Toney is a better fighter than DM. Case closed...

Like you said, styles make fights and Montell had the right plan to beat Toney.

Toney is a defensive fighter, that is the last style you want against Roy Jones Jr. and Michalczewski has a polar opposite agressors style than Toney, plus he moves better on his feet. Toney is horrible as an agressor and thats the style you need against Jones.


The "horrible as an aggressor" statement is a bit of an exaggeration...if he were "horrible" he wouldn't have beaten Nunn...

Toney was 3 levels above Michalczewski hmmm OK

Thats why Toney lost 2 descisions to Montell Griffin and Michalczewski knocked him out in 4 rounds.

Read it again, but slower this time.

The Toney that Jones fought... meaning Toney at THAT time.

[COLOR=Black]Toney Lost to Griffin Twice


[SIZE=3][B]Micalczewski knocked Griffin out in 4 rounds

Michalczewski is 3 levels above Toney if anything based on that. Griffin couldn't last 12 mineuts in the ring with der Tiger but he beat Toney TWICE.

Michalczewski is 3 levels above Toney and has a costum made style to take down Jones. Jones has a costom made style to beat Toney.

The "horrible as an aggressor" statement is a bit of an exaggeration...if he were "horrible" he wouldn't have beaten Nunn...

Toney is a horrilble agressor, he was lucky against nunn, and nunn must have had a weak chin to be taken out on 1 punch like that, but Toney was so lucky in that fight.

Toney is 1/10th the agressor Michalczewski is. So dont even go there.

Triangle theories do not work in boxing. It's not maths.
Jones fought Toney years before Griffin & years before Griffin fought DM.

Barerra will nearly always beat Morales, Pacman killed Barerra, so why did Morales beat Pacman? Get a grip, dude.

Triangle theories?
yeah whatever

this is no triangle theory, its pure logic

Michalczewski dropped Griffin in 4

Griffin beat Toney twice

This is applying pure logic, nothing else.

Why I bother arguing wiith a punk like you is the question, your allergic to facts and logic.

Not to mention the fact Griffin was somewhat whooping Jones in their first fight so Jones had to revert to illegal tactics to get the bout stopped. None the less Michalczewski put Griffin in a coma in 4.

Triangle theories?
yeah whatever

this is no triangle theory, its pure logic

Michalczewski dropped Griffin in 4

Griffin beat Toney twice

This is applying pure logic, nothing else.

Why I bother arguing wiith a punk like you is the question, your allergic to facts and logic.

That would be 'you're'...
You forgot about Barrera, Morales & Pacman, but anyway..
OK let's use your 'logic. Jones KO'd Griffin in 1.

Triangle theories?
yeah whatever

this is no triangle theory, its pure logic

Michalczewski dropped Griffin in 4

Griffin beat Toney twice

This is applying pure logic, nothing else.

Why I bother arguing wiith a punk like you is the question, your allergic to facts and logic.

It's been proven over and over again that this kind of logic isn't worth **** in boxing. Frazier beats Ali. Ali beats Foreman. Frazier beats Foreman? Styles make fights pal, that's what makes this sport interessting.

Have a nice day, Lads.
I'm off to watch some Aussie Rules football!!

Toney is a horrilble agressor, he was lucky against nunn, and nunn must have had a weak chin to be taken out on 1 punch like that, but Toney was so lucky in that fight.

Toney is 1/10th the agressor Michalczewski is. So dont even go there.


Don't be an idiot. I didn't make the comparison with DM about Toney's aggressiveness. I agree that DM is a better aggressor than Toney.

I said that by you stating that Toney is a "horrible" aggressor, you are making an exaggerated statement...which you are. Toney wasn't really SO lucky in that fight. He caught up to Nunn in the 9th and the momentum was clearly shifting. He hit Nunn with about 6-7 BOMBS before he KO'd him...and Nunn hasn't been KO'd before or since...so you can throw your WEAK CHIN statement out the window. Toney hit Nunn with a big hook before landing the next hook that put him down. Nunn wasn't knocked out with 1 punch, he was put down by an assault after he got up and was knocked down again...the ref stopped the fight.

Toney was 3 levels above Michalczewski hmmm OK

Thats why Toney lost 2 descisions to Montell Griffin and Michalczewski knocked him out in 4 rounds.

You forgot Thazdi's MD over Toney as well. DM TKO 9 over Thazdi.

Is everybody in agreement that Toney is second best fighter Roy Jones Jr. ever faced, I hope so, dont say it was John Ruiz if your Jones fan especially. If you are in agreement you have to realize the relevancy that the 2 guys Toney lost to were both KO'd by Michalczewski. (Thadzi and Griffin 9 and 4)

It would be easy for someone to argue that Ruiz posed more risk. It was 50/50 in most people's eyes who would win that fight and that was after Roy had dominated Toney.

Regardless of Toney's past, he has proven that he is a great fighter, just with a low motivaton at times.

I really hope you are not trying to say that DM's besting of people who beat Toney means that DM would beat Roy. That doesn't make any sense. I mean, what exactly are you trying to say? lol...

It would be easy for someone to argue that Ruiz posed more risk. It was 50/50 in most people's eyes who would win that fight and that was after Roy had dominated Toney.

Regardless of Toney's past, he has proven that he is a great fighter, just with a low motivaton at times.

I really hope you are not trying to say that DM's besting of people who beat Toney means that DM would beat Roy. That doesn't make any sense. I mean, what exactly are you trying to say? lol...


Exactly...

The old "this guy couldn't beat this guy but fighter X beat those guys twice so fighter X could beat fighter Y" **** never works out. If it were that easy then Trevor Berbick would be better than George Foreman.

Roy Jones Junior was undoubtably an exceptional talent!

But I think, he could have been SOOOOO MUCH MORE! Had he not avoided the best in every division?

So what will he be remembered as now?

Yeah Jones was the man when he was younger....looking back on some of his fights, I get this feeling that he really didn't care about leaving a legacy but rather wanted to be a showman more than anything else. I just wished that a re-match with hopkins happened years ago.