Robinson?

Discuss...............

no he was just more explosive and athletic......robinson was always a better boxer......

why the new name st lion?

Technically, I would say Robinson was the better boxer. I think Jones had better physical attributes like speed and power, though.

I think that Roy was a 'more naturally gifted' athlete, not a more gifted fighter.

I'd argue that Roy had the faster hands and feet and better defensive reactions. But that Ray had the more solid chin and fighting heart.

They are both two of my biggest idols, I would shade Roy for God given talent but could easily argue it the other way.

I think that Roy was a 'more naturally gifted' athlete, not a more gifted fighter.

I'd argue that Roy had the faster hands and feet and better defensive reactions. But that Ray had the more solid chin and fighting heart.

They are both two of my biggest idols, I would shade Roy for God given talent but could easily argue it the other way.
Think SRR had far more range of punches, as for boxing hmmmm neither was Willie Pep but RJJ did have fantastic reflexes so maybe he was harder to hit.

THE SCHOLAR CONSIDERS:
An Interview With Boxing Historian Herbert G. Goldman
By Katherine Dunn



WHY ROY JONES, JR?

KD -- Some of the questions put forward by the CBZ scholars come to mind at this point.They’ve sent them to me by e-mail and I’ve printed them out and have them here. May I run a few by you?

HG -- Well, I’ll see what I can do, sure.

KD -- A couple of years ago you published your own greatest pound-for-pound list in International Boxing digest. You had Roy Jones Jr. at the top of your list. You’ve received much criticism from historians and others—typically older folks—What about Jones’ abilities and accomplishments prompted you to make such a bold statement? And how do you compare greatness in boxers? And would you still put Jones up at the top?

HG -- OK. My ranking of Jones in such a dramatic fashion, had to do not with his accomplishments but simply with his skills. He has more and greater skills than any fighter I’ve ever seen in my life. The way he can hook and go immediately to a straight punch, the way he can fire shots from all angles, his domination of every opponent he faces. I’ve never seen a comparable fighter in my life. I went out on a limb in making that pronouncement at that time. I don’t think I was that overboard. Now it’s true that Mr. Jones’ accomplishments in terms of being in great fights, in terms of being a super-star of his period do not begin to equal his skills. That’s the down side. Of course to make great fights it takes two to tango and Mr. Jones is so far above his competition that there are no great fights out there for him, certainly within his own weight classes. Now in terms of looking at the careers of certain fighters, certainly there are a number of men who outshone him in that respect. But I still maintain that Mr. Jones is the most skilfull, is the most over-powering man, pound-for-pound, in the history of boxing. I don’t think even Sugar Ray Robinson was as dominant over his opposition as Roy Jones has been. That takes nothing away from Sugar Ray. But I have never seen a phenomenon like Roy Jones. Of course Roy Jones knows it, too. He knows what he wants, what he doesn’t want. He’s a star. He won’t fight here. He will fight only here. He’s his own promoter, more or less. So he’s certainly not everyones’ ideal of what a fighter should be. But in terms of skills I think he’s the greatest.


http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/w42x-kd.htm

He was a more naturally gifted athlete, honestly Roy was as good an athlete as the sport has ever seen in his prime. Not a better fighter, obviously.

no he was just more explosive and athletic......robinson was always a better boxer......

why the new name st lion?

:thinking::thinking:

no, i dont think so

Of cource. It's not a matter of debate. Gay Robinson wasn't even that technical. Zero defense, extremely sloppy brawling and Power punched like a buffoon with his arm completely straight without bending his elbows(strange enough it worked for him. Says enough about his era.)

Ahtletically, I think Jones was the most gifted fighter that I've ever seen but technically, no.

Athletically, of course he was more gifted than Ray. Very few match Roy for pure athletic talent. As far as technically, no I don't think he was quite as good as Ray, although he was still a good technical fighter.

Of cource. It's not a matter of debate. Gay Robinson wasn't even that technical. Zero defense, extremely sloppy brawling and Power punched like a buffoon with his arm completely straight without bending his elbows(strange enough it worked for him. Says enough about his era.)
Robinson had around 100 fights more than Jones, mainly in better company, and I never once saw him laid out unconscious in a boxing ring..
Jones cannot hold a water mark to the resume of SRR..

Of cource. It's not a matter of debate. Gay Robinson wasn't even that technical. Zero defense, extremely sloppy brawling and Power punched like a buffoon with his arm completely straight without bending his elbows(strange enough it worked for him. Says enough about his era.)

Yea!!!

Stick it to the man!!! :You_Rock_

Robinson had around 100 fights more than Jones, mainly in better company, and I never once saw him laid out unconscious in a boxing ring..
Jones cannot hold a water mark to the resume of SRR..


Let's be honest Malone,the likes of Tony Thornton,Glenn Wolfe,Glen Kelly and Derrick Harmon would have been viewed as brilliant fighters had they fought in that era,and would no doubt be in the hall of fame today.When you stop overrating the era of which Robinson fought,then it really isn't as impressive as it looks on paper.

Roy Jones would seriously clown Ray Robinson.

Let's be honest Malone,the likes of Tony Thornton,Glenn Wolfe,Glen Kelly and Derrick Harmon would have been viewed as brilliant fighters had they fought in that era,and would no doubt be in the hall of fame today.When you stop overrating the era of which Robinson fought,then it really isn't as impressive as it looks on paper.

Roy Jones would seriously clown Ray Robinson.
So Glenn Wolfe, Tony Thornton, Derrick Harmon & Glen Kelly would be comparable to say, Jake LaMotta, Gene Fullmer, Rocky Graziano & Bobo Olson?
I see you haven't lost your sense of humour!

yes i think

I don't think the two are up for any kind of rational comparison. Jones was far too unconventional a boxer to be compared with Robinson. Not that Robinson was textbook, but Jones would go rounds without throwing a jab. Triple left hooks with the 3rd being the power punch. Mostly it's unfair to Robinson, who earned his place as the standard by which all fighters will be judged by being the most complete fighter ever.

Roy Jones didn't need a jab.When you can lead with a hook as great as a Mayweather or Roy Jones can,then why bother?

Let's be honest Malone,the likes of Tony Thornton,Glenn Wolfe,Glen Kelly and Derrick Harmon would have been viewed as brilliant fighters had they fought in that era,and would no doubt be in the hall of fame today.When you stop overrating the era of which Robinson fought,then it really isn't as impressive as it looks on paper.

Roy Jones would seriously clown Ray Robinson.

No they wouldn't. In fact we probably wouldn't even have heard of these fighters.

How often do you hear of Ralph Dupas?

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Joey Giardello?

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Spider Webb?

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Glen Kelly and Derrick Harmon were nothing than fringe contenders at best. On film it's easy to see they wouldn't have been too successful in any era. Thornton and Wolfe were tough but nothing special.

without a doubt roy jones would knockout ray robinson
ray robinson would'nt get far in this era with the gloves much heavier than in his day

without a doubt roy jones would knockout ray robinson
ray robinson would'nt get far in this era with the gloves much heavier than in his day

As far as I know both used 8 ounce gloves.

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0326/box_g_robinson_fullmer_600.jpg

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Robinson had around 100 fights more than Jones, mainly in better company, and I never once saw him laid out unconscious in a boxing ring..
Jones cannot hold a water mark to the resume of SRR..

And he also had nearly 15 losses more than Jones. And I never once saw Roy quit like a coward because he knew he was going to get ko'd.
Jones is much more respectable as a boxer AND a person compared to GAY spineless Robinson.

As far as I know both used 8 ounce gloves.

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0326/box_g_robinson_fullmer_600.jpg

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in 1940's they changed the amatuer boxing gloves to 8 oz, considering the amatuers had 8 oz what did the pro's have? damn 4oz shit

And he also had nearly 15 losses more than Jones. And I never once saw Roy quit like a coward because he knew he was going to get ko'd.
Jones is much more respectable as a boxer AND a person compared to GAY spineless Robinson.

Of which 13 of those came after Robinson was 40+ years of age.

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And he also had nearly 15 losses more than Jones. And I never once saw Roy quit like a coward because he knew he was going to get ko'd.
Jones is much more respectable as a boxer AND a person compared to GAY spineless Robinson.
ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz

Of which 13 of those came after Robinson was 40+ years of age.

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So that's 6 losses for Gay while Jones never lost untill he ruined himself.

Btw, GreatGay, you are aware that we're 3-0 in debates, innit? I loved last time when you ran away yet again for the third time.

in 1940's they changed the amatuer boxing gloves to 8 oz, considering the amatuers had 8 oz what did the pro's have? damn 4oz shit

6 or 8 ounces. Today boxing gloves differ from 6 to 10 ounces, depending on the weight division.

So that's 6 losses for Gay while Jones never lost untill he ruined himself.

Btw, GreatGay, you are aware that we're 3-0 in debates, innit? I loved last time when you ran away yet again for the third time.

6 losses of which 3 came after the age of 35 and a 3 year layoff. Before that a loss against LaMotta, avenged 5 times, a loss against Turpin, avenged immediately and the loss to Maxim in 130 fights. Jones has 5 losses in 60 fights.

A prime Roy would have whooped any boxers behind.

6 losses of which 3 came after the age of 35 and a 3 year layoff. Before that a loss against LaMotta, avenged 5 times, a loss against Turpin, avenged immediately and the loss to Maxim in 130 fights. Jones has 5 losses in 60 fights.

The point is Jones never lost untill he came back from the HWs. He truly was untouchable while GAY Robinson was nearly bludgeoned by a brute like Lamotta, outboxed against Turpin and quit against Maxim.

And answer my question you loveable twat.

The point is Jones never lost untill he came back from the HWs. He truly was untouchable while GAY Robinson was nearly bludgeoned by a brute like Lamotta, outboxed against Turpin and quit against Maxim.

And answer my question you loveable twat.

Lost by a DQ to Montell Griffin.

Robinson was 40-0 against better opposition Roy Jones ever fought early in his career. After a close decision loss to LaMotta which he avenged, he went another 8 years and 80 fights without a loss. At this point his record stood 121 wins with only 1 loss, avenged 5 times.

What question? That you're "3-0" against me? How about you prove all these times that I've supposedly "quit" in arguments. Of course you won't because you can't. Usually I'm just getting started when you end up getting banned.

Lost by a DQ to Montell Griffin.

Robinson was 40-0 against better opposition Roy Jones ever fought early in his career. After a close decision loss to LaMotta which he avenged, he went another 8 years and 80 fights without a loss. At this point his record stood 121 wins with only 1 loss, avenged 5 times.

What question? That you're "3-0" against me? How about you prove all these times that I've supposedly "quit" in arguments. Of course you won't because you can't. Usually I'm just getting started when you end up getting banned.

give it up, they were all bums back then compared to now, jesus christ do people not understand these guys were uneducated and pretty much fought just keep the food on their plates?
they went poor straight after retiring and that says somethin, they never had the proper nurishment as todays fighters, which are MUCH stronger and by a long shot

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/51/Sugarrayrobinson.jpg/200px-Sugarrayrobinson.jpg

look at those 8 oz gloves

look at the definition, you can tell he had as much strenght as roy jones GOD DAMN!!
started to box at what? 14
jones was boxing at 6
and he was trained alot harder than robinson, why is it so hard to believe he'd own ray?
ray was a good fighter dont get me wrong, but in a era of bums

give it up, they were all bums back then compared to now, jesus christ do people not understand these guys were uneducated and pretty much fought just keep the food on their plates?
they went poor straight after retiring and that says somethin, they never had the proper nurishment as todays fighters, which are MUCH stronger and by a long shot

Agreed. Take a look at these bums

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and compare them to these amazing fighters Roy is facing:

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Lost by a DQ to Montell Griffin.

Robinson was 40-0 against better opposition Roy Jones ever fought early in his career. After a close decision loss to LaMotta which he avenged, he went another 8 years and 80 fights without a loss. At this point his record stood 121 wins with only 1 loss, avenged 5 times.

What question? That you're "3-0" against me? How about you prove all these times that I've supposedly "quit" in arguments. Of course you won't because you can't. Usually I'm just getting started when you end up getting banned.

Typical of you to completely overrate and hype up competition that you don't even have more than a handful of fights of, yet you immediately clinge onto GAY's balls thinking it was all better because that's how your brain works. Face it, GAY lost to Lamotta Turpin and Maxim. Jones never lost untill he ruined his body.

The thunderdome thread, a thread in this section and 2 in NSB. You ran off like your cowardly hero, you quit because you couldn't handle the heat anymore. You can dig up those threads if you want, if you dare, mate.

pazienza would be champion in that era and richard frazier, well, frazier is just a super bum
would love to see robinson clown toney and shit on someone that outweighs him by 25 pounds while he himself probabley putting 25 pounds of strain on his small frame and clown reggie johnson, end virgil hill with a body shot(im not even gonna say without 4 oz gloves cuz even then he could'nt do it)

kid gavilan was a bum btw
bums look good fighting other bums dont they?
did you know for the first time there is a double muscled person?
yea, a baby maybe 2 years old by now(not sure)
people are evolving, quit living in the past, look at shit in color and not black and white

by the looks of their crooked backs they had bad posture, were'nt thought how to box right :nonono:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/51/Sugarrayrobinson.jpg/200px-Sugarrayrobinson.jpg

look at those 8 oz gloves

look at the definition, you can tell he had as much strenght as roy jones GOD DAMN!!
started to box at what? 14
jones was boxing at 6
and he was trained alot harder than robinson, why is it so hard to believe he'd own ray?
ray was a good fighter dont get me wrong, but in a era of bums

You think Robinson actually fought with those gloves?

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0326/box_g_robinson_fullmer_600.jpg

Robinson was known as one of the hardest workers in the gym and he certainly never played basketball the day of a fight like Roy Jones.

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/Images/robinson_bell.jpg

pazienza would be champion in that era and richard frazier, well, frazier is just a super bum
would love to see robinson clown toney and shit on someone that outweighs him by 25 pounds while he himself probabley putting 25 pounds of strain on his small frame and clown reggie johnson, end virgil hill with a body shot(im not even gonna say without 4 oz gloves cuz even then he could'nt do it)

kid gavilan was a bum btw
bums look good fighting other bums dont they?
did you know for the first time there is a double muscled person?
yea, a baby maybe 2 years old by now(not sure)
people are evolving, quit living in the past, look at shit in color and not black and white

Pazienza was a 3-time world champion in his era, now what does that tell you? He was given a shot at Roy Jones for beating a 45 year old Roberto Duran.

Kid Gavilan a bum? Watch his fights. I'm afraid you've just got no boxing knowledge whatsoever to call Gavilan a bum.

Evolution doesn't happen in 50 years. Learn some science will you?

Typical of you to completely overrate and hype up competition that you don't even have more than a handful of fights of, yet you immediately clinge onto GAY's balls thinking it was all better because that's how your brain works. Face it, GAY lost to Lamotta Turpin and Maxim. Jones never lost untill he ruined his body.

The thunderdome thread, a thread in this section and 2 in NSB. You ran off like your cowardly hero, you quit because you couldn't handle the heat anymore. You can dig up those threads if you want, if you dare, mate.

Opposition Ray Robinson fought in his first 40 fights:

Henry Armstrong
Jake LaMotta
Fritzie Zivic
Sammy Angott
Marty Servo
Maxie Shapiro
Pete Lello

Along with a bunch of other top 10 contenders.

I'd say most neutral viewers saw your opinions get disproven by the facts I presented, to the point where you could no longer come back with anything other than personal insults directed at me. We can go that route again, it'll be no different.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/51/Sugarrayrobinson.jpg/200px-Sugarrayrobinson.jpg

look at those 8 oz gloves

look at the definition, you can tell he had as much strenght as roy jones GOD DAMN!!
started to box at what? 14
jones was boxing at 6
and he was trained alot harder than robinson, why is it so hard to believe he'd own ray?
ray was a good fighter dont get me wrong, but in a era of bums

Dude. Those aren't ring gloves those are striking mitts used for working the heavybag.

Poet

Evolution doesn't happen in 50 years. Learn some science will you?


look at this new technology coming out one always better than the last every 2 years or so and yet we are not evolving no way :)

but yea, in this case i did'nt mean so much evolution but the change of environment and things that are avaliable

look at this new technology coming out one always better than the last every 2 years or so and yet we are not evolving no way :)

Technology and biological creatures are two VERY different things. Biological change, like geological change, moves extremely slow compared to technological innovation. Apples and oranges: You can't extrapolate from one to the other.

Poet

Roy was faster and more agile for sure. Not sure about the rest. I need to see more Sugar fights before I can judge.

look at this new technology coming out one always better than the last every 2 years or so and yet we are not evolving no way :)

but yea, in this case i did'nt mean so much evolution but the change of environment and things that are avaliable

What's the big difference in boxers' environment from the 1950's compared to today though? The training regiment consists of mainly the same thing.

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lol at the guy trying to act as if Robinson only fought bums.

Even more lol at the guy that thinks Robinson wasn't a good boxer compared to Jones. I don't doubt that Jones would beat Robinson, considering Jones was a natural light heavyweight and Robinson a welterweight/middleweight.

An article worth reading is:

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/fighterspast.html

Old hat to some but worth a read to others.

Roy was faster and more agile for sure. Not sure about the rest. I need to see more Sugar fights before I can judge.


I think you need to see more fights in general to even have an opinion on boxing.I will try and fish out some short quick knockouts for you as throwing a full 10,12,15 round fight may overload someone of your limited mental capacity but I promise nothing more than a three rounder to start off with.Can't live off of boxrec forever now,can we?


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So you think Roy Jones is a wimp?

yes but ray was better

pazienza would be champion in that era and richard frazier, well, frazier is just a super bum
would love to see robinson clown toney and shit on someone that outweighs him by 25 pounds while he himself probabley putting 25 pounds of strain on his small frame and clown reggie johnson, end virgil hill with a body shot(im not even gonna say without 4 oz gloves cuz even then he could'nt do it)

kid gavilan was a bum btw
bums look good fighting other bums dont they?
did you know for the first time there is a double muscled person?
yea, a baby maybe 2 years old by now(not sure)
people are evolving, quit living in the past, look at shit in color and not black and white

You truly are an idiot. You and Slimey are meant for one another. Neither of you offer a shred of proof, only conjecture.

You truly are an idiot. You and Slimey are meant for one another. Neither of you offer a shred of proof, only conjecture.

And he's banned :rofl:

Poet

Ray Robinson has the better resume hands down. Roy was blessed with more talent.. I am a fan or SRR but i think people tend to overrate his skills as a boxer and if he and Roy ever met in the ring I think Roy would beat SRR

Ray Robinson has the better resume hands down. Roy was blessed with more talent.. I am a fan or SRR but i think people tend to overrate his skills as a boxer and if he and Roy ever met in the ring I think Roy would beat SRR

A surprising moment of honesty coming from a Gay fan. If more were like this it would end up in a nuclear holocaust.

THE SCHOLAR CONSIDERS:
An Interview With Boxing Historian Herbert G. Goldman
By Katherine Dunn



WHY ROY JONES, JR?

KD -- Some of the questions put forward by the CBZ scholars come to mind at this point.They’ve sent them to me by e-mail and I’ve printed them out and have them here. May I run a few by you?

HG -- Well, I’ll see what I can do, sure.

KD -- A couple of years ago you published your own greatest pound-for-pound list in International Boxing digest. You had Roy Jones Jr. at the top of your list. You’ve received much criticism from historians and others—typically older folks—What about Jones’ abilities and accomplishments prompted you to make such a bold statement? And how do you compare greatness in boxers? And would you still put Jones up at the top?

HG -- OK. My ranking of Jones in such a dramatic fashion, had to do not with his accomplishments but simply with his skills. He has more and greater skills than any fighter I’ve ever seen in my life. The way he can hook and go immediately to a straight punch, the way he can fire shots from all angles, his domination of every opponent he faces. I’ve never seen a comparable fighter in my life. I went out on a limb in making that pronouncement at that time. I don’t think I was that overboard. Now it’s true that Mr. Jones’ accomplishments in terms of being in great fights, in terms of being a super-star of his period do not begin to equal his skills. That’s the down side. Of course to make great fights it takes two to tango and Mr. Jones is so far above his competition that there are no great fights out there for him, certainly within his own weight classes. Now in terms of looking at the careers of certain fighters, certainly there are a number of men who outshone him in that respect. But I still maintain that Mr. Jones is the most skilfull, is the most over-powering man, pound-for-pound, in the history of boxing. I don’t think even Sugar Ray Robinson was as dominant over his opposition as Roy Jones has been. That takes nothing away from Sugar Ray. But I have never seen a phenomenon like Roy Jones. Of course Roy Jones knows it, too. He knows what he wants, what he doesn’t want. He’s a star. He won’t fight here. He will fight only here. He’s his own promoter, more or less. So he’s certainly not everyones’ ideal of what a fighter should be. But in terms of skills I think he’s the greatest.


http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/w42x-kd.htm


I could not agree more. One thing to think about, roy and Mayweather, where fighters that from the time they were very very little where tought boxing, thus there instinct, and reflexes combined with natural athleticm, are simply so much faster and instinctive than those fighters like Robinson and Leonard, who are great in their own respects but started at like 10-12....

They say you should start a kid around 8, due to attention span,,,however Roy Sr and Mayweather SR starteed their kids earlier and iin dominating fashion..which speaks to the challenges they have with their kids now. However, they forced boxing upon them (well sr says that roy wanted it) and overcame the attention span issue. Thus they have kids that grew up to have reflexes that are simply unmatched....

Now when it comes to all around fighter, I have to go with robinson. As if you look at simply how devestaing he could rip off shots, take shots, go to war.. etc. That is simply born in him,, Ray leonard was a warrior that Mayweather nor Jones could be, and Ray had reflexes and instincts that was simply amazing look at him in the Olympics.. Roy nor mayweather had that type of punching speed as Ray did in the Olympics.

Roy simply until he damaged his body and got old possessed skills that no not mayweather, leoanrd, Robinon non of them had. That does mean he is better, that simply means he was able to do things that Leonard himself said was amazing and that he and the other of the super 4 were glad they did not have to face him.

Suprised at how many people think Jones would beat Robinson. Here's something to consider. I cannot think of a single fight, with the possible exception of Montell Griffin I, where Roy Jones made positive adjustment during the course of the fight. Robinson was constantly making positive adjustments, and his boxing IQ was elevated above virtually every fighter ever. Robinson fought nearly 200 fights into his 40s, and was never really knocked out. Robinson had every punch, from every angle, and could knock an opponent out from anywhere. Robinson would be much more complex a riddle for Jones to solve than Jones for Robinson, and considering Jones' weak opposition at EVERY weight (let's stop pretending that Jones only took low risk opponents eclusively when he got to 175), where is the example that Jones would even be competative with a fighter with the skill set and mentality that Robinson had?

Roy Jones opposition wasn't that weak,there were fights that should have been made at 160,168 and 175 but the fighters he fought weren't bums by any means.I thought he did well to adjust in the first fight with Tarver where he lost the first two rounds very convincingly