I've seen a few all-time great lists and these fighters seem to battle for the number two spot behind Robinson.

So who's greater? Armstrong or Ali?

Both are greater than Gay Robinson.

Both are greater than Gay Robinson.

When a child finds a boxing forum.

When a child finds a boxing forum.

Says the fan of rap music. That alone shows the amount of brain cells you possess.

Says the fan of rap music. That alone shows the amount of brain cells you possess.

Urrgh, you hate Ray and rap. **** you

I think you have to put Armstrong above Ali. Of course, I wouldn't have Ali in the top 5 anyway. I usually don't like to isolate just one thing when it comes to assesing greatness, but it applies to Armstrong. 3 simultanious titles, out of 8 eligible. Possibly was screwed out of a 4th. That's enough to top Ali, although it should be said that Ali being the 2nd fighter to regain the heavyweight title and the 1st to win it 3 times is highly impressive, but not in today's context. Plus, Armstrong had over 100 knockouts (that we know of). That's just sick. I put him at #2 behind Robinson and don't feel bad for it. I complete it with Ezzard Charles, Roberto Duran and Harry Greb. But I don't put much stock in that, as I prefer to judge fighters that I saw as they were fighting at somewhere near their best, or from the early 80s on.

You have Charles in your top five P4P? Why?

I can understand having him high but five is way too high! He just didn't do enough to put him over all those other greats.

You have Charles in your top five P4P? Why?

I can understand having him high but five is way too high! He just didn't do enough to put him over all those other greats.

Five may be generous, but I've always considered Charles in very high regard. His resume is outstanding.

You know, I always find it amazing thinking about those guys that become greats and lose their first pro fight. Both Marquez brothers come to mind recently.

Armstrong of course was knocked out in his first fight.

But, there are a few little questions on some of his achievements. First, most people think he was the first fighter to hold three titles simultaneously. Her was the first to hold the FW, LW and WW but not the first to hold three at once. Barney Ross was.

Also, the fight for the middleweight title was not actually a world title fight. It was only a state middleweight title so even if he won it would not have been for a world title, though there could be some confusion surrounding that but that's what I remember.

Anyway, with what he did who really cares about that. The guy was amazing. Doesn't he hold the most WW title defenses too or something? I can't remember. Incredible fighter though with so many legends on his resume. I personally do have him above Ali, but I think most people won't.

Jab: Yeah man, I agree completely. Charles was one of my favourite fighters, and still is, but five is very high considering all the other fighters that would be below him. You could make an argument for the top ten but five is pushing it IMO. Still, considering his resume you could have him him anywhere close to the top I guess.

You have Charles in your top five P4P? Why?

I can understand having him high but five is way too high! He just didn't do enough to put him over all those other greats.

Greatest LH ever in my view despite getting screwed out of ever getting a title shot at 175, has multiple wins over Archie Moore, Joey Maxim, Jimmy Bivins and later Jersey Joe Walcott, to name a few. Supremely talented fighter. I usually tend to stay away from making choices like this because of all the historical weirdness, who's mob controled, who threw what fight, who really won this and lost that, but I'm sold on Charles. I would say he dominated the 40s at 175 as much as any fighter dominated any other decade at any weight class other than Robinson at 147.

Greatest LH ever in my view despite getting screwed out of ever getting a title shot at 175, has multiple wins over Archie Moore, Joey Maxim, Jimmy Bivins and later Jersey Joe Walcott, to name a few. Supremely talented fighter. I usually tend to stay away from making choices like this because of all the historical weirdness, who's mob controled, who threw what fight, who really won this and lost that, but I'm sold on Charles. I would say he dominated the 40s at 175 as much as any fighter dominated any other decade at any weight class other than Robinson at 147.

He was certainly a great fighter. No arguing with that. :boxing:

But, there are a few little questions on some of his achievements. First, most people think he was the first fighter to hold three titles simultaneously. Her was the first to hold the FW, LW and WW but not the first to hold three at once. Barney Ross was.



Think he was Benny, think Ross vacated one before getting the third.
Doesn't mean that your not a legend though :)

Armstrong > Ali

Charles is a top 15-30 ATG.

armstrong had a 2 year prime, ali was on top for like 10 years....

Armstrong!

armstrong had a 2 year prime, ali was on top for like 10 years....

It dosent matter, what Armstrong accomplished is just unheard of. While reigning FW Champion, goes up and defeats the reigning Welterweight champion, then goes and win the Lightweight Title and holds all 3 titles at the same time.

Then gets a draw in which he should of got with Garcia in a Middelweight Title bout reconigned by the Californa State.

Can you imagine the number #1 Featherweight Chris John jumping 4 weight divisions and beating the number #1 Welterweight Shane Mosely? Just wound't happen. And Armstrong 147 champion, was much better than Mosely.

Them accomplishments are just damn right insane. Ali was great, Armstrong was greater.

This is very very close and could go either way.

My top pfp all-time greats:

SRR
Duran
Ali
Armstrong

henry is far better

You can't blame Ali for not being able go down to light heavyweight to gain multiple titles. What's he going to do...move down to 147 from 215? haha.

You can't blame Ali for not being able go down to light heavyweight to gain multiple titles. What's he going to do...move down to 147 from 215? haha.

Indeed. These lads need to use their brain and not their nose which has been stuck up the oooool timers arses since the beginning.

You can't blame Ali for not being able go down to light heavyweight to gain multiple titles. What's he going to do...move down to 147 from 215? haha.

yea and he was light heavyweight champ in the olympics....

yea and he was light heavyweight champ in the olympics....

There is no way in hell he could have stayed below 200lbs for even the beginning of his career.

There is no way in hell he could have stayed below 200lbs for even the beginning of his career.

Well, he did, until his 16th fight that is. In fact even in 1966 Ali weighed 201 lbs for the second Henry Cooper fight.

Of course he couldn't have the light heavyweight limit and there was no cruiserweight division at the time.

I don't really look at all the weights Armstrong fought at and the championships he won, I look at the great competition he fought. He got more done in just a couple of years than most fighters do in their whole careers and he did achieve great results out of his prime too, even if he was not the same.

Ali could be rated above Armstrong, he had the longevity and one could prefer his style to Armstrong's. I rate Armstrong comfortably number 2 though, below only Sugar Ray Robinson.

He got more done in just a couple of years than most fighters do in their whole careers and he did achieve great results out of his prime too, even if he was not the same.


That. 1937, 27 fights, all but 1 by knockout. Ali had more longevity, but Armstrong like GreatA said did more in a few years than most fighters do their entire careers.

Define Greatness???? Greatness can be assessed a number of ways....the amount of titles won, win-loss record, toughness of opposition, style, charisma, showmanship, overall impact and influence on the sport....Taking all these factors into account...Ali is the greatest boxer of all time - No one and i mean NO one had as much influence or impact on boxing as Ali.....First man to win the title 3 times....Ali was the most graceful boxer to watch...he revolusionised the sport...damn near made it an artform....Ali's win-loss record is impeccable...taking into account the majority of his lossess came when he was suffering the affects of Parkinsons...not to mention he was banned for 4 years (4 years of his prime- we probably never saw the best of ALi)...in my opinion and according to many boxing historians, Ali fought in the golden era of boxing, standing head and shoulders above the rest..Armstrong never had tougher opposition than ALi...Ali had Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Sonny Liston, Ken Norton, Henry Cooper, Floyd Patterson and many more....i don't care who Armstrong fought, his opposition was no where near the level Ali had to deal with....i could go on all day about How Ali is the best there ever was