Poll added.

Shogun was obviously robbed

I like machida, but shogun won that EASILY...

4 rounds to 5 for shogun i had....

If you watch the fight with the annoying commentating turned off. For every kick to Machida's body Shogun landed, it also appeared tha Machida was landing a straight left to Shoguns face. I'm watching the fight seeing machida punch shogun in the face, but hearing the commentators say "oh, another big kick to the body". I got confused and said maybe I am watching Machida too closely so I shifted focus to shogun and I still clearly seen Machida landing straight lefts to the face and shogun numerous kicks to the legs, because every one of his kicks to the body got countered with a punch to the face. So I voted it was a draw...

If you watch the fight with the annoying commentating turned off. For every kick to Machida's body Shogun landed, it also appeared tha Machida was landing a straight left to Shoguns face. I'm watching the fight seeing machida punch shogun in the face, but hearing the commentators say "oh, another big kick to the body". I got confused and said maybe I am watching Machida too closely so I shifted focus to shogun and I still clearly seen Machida landing straight lefts to the face and shogun numerous kicks to the legs, because every one of his kicks to the body got countered with a punch to the face. So I voted it was a draw...

Yep, that commentary was horrible...On some Mayweather/Castillo 1 type ****.

I vote draw as well..Because you didn't leave an option that Shogun edged the fight, and it wasn't an out and out robbery.

If you watch the fight with the annoying commentating turned off. For every kick to Machida's body Shogun landed, it also appeared tha Machida was landing a straight left to Shoguns face. I'm watching the fight seeing machida punch shogun in the face, but hearing the commentators say "oh, another big kick to the body". I got confused and said maybe I am watching Machida too closely so I shifted focus to shogun and I still clearly seen Machida landing straight lefts to the face and shogun numerous kicks to the legs, because every one of his kicks to the body got countered with a punch to the face. So I voted it was a draw...

Shogun landed 82 strikes out of 149.
Lyoto landed 42 strikes out of 116.

Shogun had 55% accuracy
Lyoto had 36% accuracy

Shogun landed 17 shots to the head (12 power shots).
Lyoto landed 14 shots to the head (8 power shots).

Lyoto landed 24 shots to the body
Shogun landed 16 shots to the body

Shogun landed 49 leg kicks.
Lyoto landed 4 leg kicks.

Shogun landed 48 strikes from distance.
Lyoto landed 26 strikes from distance.

Shogun landed 34 strikes from the clinch.
Lyoto landed 16 strikes from the clinch.

Shogun landed 82 strikes out of 149.
Lyoto landed 42 strikes out of 116.

Shogun had 55% accuracy
Lyoto had 36% accuracy

Shogun landed 17 shots to the head (12 power shots).
Lyoto landed 14 shots to the head (8 power shots).

Lyoto landed 24 shots to the body
Shogun landed 16 shots to the body

Shogun landed 49 leg kicks.
Lyoto landed 4 leg kicks.

Shogun landed 48 strikes from distance.
Lyoto landed 26 strikes from distance.

Shogun landed 34 strikes from the clinch.
Lyoto landed 16 strikes from the clinch.

Again with the fight metrics?

Lyoto landed more than 14 head shots.

/end

Shogun got Malignaggi'd this fight! 4 rounds to 1 Shogun!

Again with the fight metrics?

Lyoto landed more than 14 head shots.

/end


Most of the head shots were blocked, so I don't understand your issue

Most of the head shots were blocked, so I don't understand your issue

most...but more than 14 landed.

I could turn around and say some of the shots Shogun was given credit for were blocked/dodged as well.

Overall Shogun landed less than statistics claim, and Machida landed more. These perceptions were influenced by the climate of the fight. I stick by that.

Still have Rua edging the fight, but just saying

most...but more than 14 landed.

I could turn around and say some of the shots Shogun was given credit for were blocked/dodged as well.

Overall Shogun landed less than statistics claim, and Machida landed more. These perceptions were influenced by the climate of the fight. I stick by that.

Still have Rua edging the fight, but just saying


To me the Shogun stats are spot on, remember, he was the one chipping away at the legs of Machida for five whole rounds, plus landing jabs and elbows here and there for five rounds.

Lyoto after round two barely used striking to the head, he limited himself to the occasional straight left to counter a leg kick

I've watched it a couple times and each time i've scored it 49-46 for Shogun. I really can't see how you could even give Machida 2 rounds

There's not alot if any on here but lol@ Machida nuthuggers (you can find them at sherdog) who only started watching him after the Thiago KO and judged Shogun off his last two fights and thought he had no chance. You guys slept on an MMA ATG.

i got machida winning 3-2 or if you scroed the 1st fog shogun then he gets the nod....machida 2-3 rd and rua 4-5 no doubt.....close fight...rematch will settle it machida by late ko

Shogun landed 82 strikes out of 149.
Lyoto landed 42 strikes out of 116.

Shogun had 55% accuracy
Lyoto had 36% accuracy

Shogun landed 17 shots to the head (12 power shots).
Lyoto landed 14 shots to the head (8 power shots).

Lyoto landed 24 shots to the body
Shogun landed 16 shots to the body

Shogun landed 49 leg kicks.
Lyoto landed 4 leg kicks.

Shogun landed 48 strikes from distance.
Lyoto landed 26 strikes from distance.

Shogun landed 34 strikes from the clinch.
Lyoto landed 16 strikes from the clinch.

Since you want to go there... There is nothing significant about those numbers other than the fight should have been scored a technical draw. How about the fact that this was an MMA fight and not a damn kickboxing/ muy thai match... We all know what machida does and it has won him ever fight easily up until now, but being this was a mixed martial arts fight and shogun was the challenger, how many take downs did he have or even attempt? How many submissions did he attempt. When did he have the champ ever in danger or finishing the fight. MMA is like "microwave" fighting isn't being that the fans generally like and welcome quick finishes. I don't give a **** about shogun kicking the **** out of Machida's legs all night if he wasn't doing it and actually pursuing a knockout. I don't give a **** about shogun kickin machida all night on the left side of his body when the liver is located on the right side (when all them kicks to the liver area) would have most likely finished machida. This fight was just like a baseball game "Tie goes to the runner" or better yet champion point blank!!! BTW I absolutely hate Machidas style, but that still doesn't take away the fact that shogun thought he was going to win the UFC LHW Championship via leg kicks...

There's not alot if any on here but lol@ Machida nuthuggers (you can find them at sherdog) who only started watching him after the Thiago KO and judged Shogun off his last two fights and thought he had no chance. You guys slept on an MMA ATG.

Well, i am a huge Shogun fan but i really thought Machida was in another league and clearly above everybody, like GSP in WW or Fedor in HW.
I thought Shogun was fighting a dead man in Chuck Liddell, who looked worse than he did against Jardine. So it was pretty legit to count Shogun out in that fight.

Plus, Shogun used to be an offensive striker, who could get careless in fights and even got knocked down by featherfisted Rogerio Nogueira. That with the great counter ability of Machida showed against Rashad, Thiago Silva, who were all good fighters lead people to believe a guy who struggled with 43/44 years old Coleman couldn't beat him.

Still, i was impressed by the work on his boxing done before the Liddell fight.

Look at what i could do with your post and it'd still be true:

There's not alot if any on here but lol@ Pacquiao nuthuggers (you can find them at Boxingscene) who only started watching him after the DeLaHoya KO and judged Cotto off his last two fights and thought he had no chance

You guys slept on an Boxing ATG.
Well the last sentence will be true after November 14th

Since you want to go there... There is nothing significant about those numbers other than the fight should have been scored a technical draw. How about the fact that this was an MMA fight and not a damn kickboxing/ muy thai match... We all know what machida does and it has won him ever fight easily up until now, but being this was a mixed martial arts fight and shogun was the challenger, how many take downs did he have or even attempt? How many submissions did he attempt. When did he have the champ ever in danger or finishing the fight. MMA is like "microwave" fighting isn't being that the fans generally like and welcome quick finishes. I don't give a **** about shogun kicking the **** out of Machida's legs all night if he wasn't doing it and actually pursuing a knockout. I don't give a **** about shogun kickin machida all night on the left side of his body when the liver is located on the right side (when all them kicks to the liver area) would have most likely finished machida. This fight was just like a baseball game "Tie goes to the runner" or better yet champion point blank!!! BTW I absolutely hate Machidas style, but that still doesn't take away the fact that shogun thought he was going to win the UFC LHW Championship via leg kicks...


MMA=Mixed Martial Arts. Emphasis on Mixed. Both Kickboxing and Muay Thai are Martial Arts so it falls under the category.

Shogun 4-1.

MMA=Mixed Martial Arts. Emphasis on Mixed. Both Kickboxing and Muay Thai are Martial Arts so it falls under the category.

Muy Thai and Kickboxing are both striking based, while jui jitsu and wrestling is grappling of course, so exactly what arts did shogun mix to try and win the fight... get out of here with that fail sh*t I am rarely if ever wrong when anylazing a fight because I do it unbiased. I watched the entire fight most of it without listening to the dumb ass commentators, obviously you didn't...

machida got beat up, dont know how he won. im looking forward to a rematch.

Well, i am a huge Shogun fan but i really thought Machida was in another league and clearly above everybody, like GSP in WW or Fedor in HW.
I thought Shogun was fighting a dead man in Chuck Liddell, who looked worse than he did against Jardine. So it was pretty legit to count Shogun out in that fight.

Plus, Shogun used to be an offensive striker, who could get careless in fights and even got knocked down by featherfisted Rogerio Nogueira. That with the great counter ability of Machida showed against Rashad, Thiago Silva, who were all good fighters lead people to believe a guy who struggled with 43/44 years old Coleman couldn't beat him.

Still, i was impressed by the work on his boxing done before the Liddell fight.

Look at what i could do with your post and it'd still be true:


Well the last sentence will be true after November 14th

I was very impressed with Shogun. I really thought he'd come out guns blazing and Machida wouldn't have enough time to time him. Shogun did none of that and actually tried to time Machida which is nuts! lol. I never count Shogun out. Then again he's my fav LHW and the guy's still in his 20's. I just couldn't stand the Machida hype and this whole "Machida era" and "who will end his reign" when the guy didn't have any title defenses yet. BTW I don't see anything wrong with what you did with my quote by inserting Pacquiao! I agree 100 percent.

to win the against the champion, you have to win overwhelmingly

just like lyoto did when he won the championship.

shogun failed to do that, and the odds are always in favor of

the reigning champion, which is why he was awarded the victory.

to win the against the champion, you have to win overwhelmingly

just like lyoto did when he won the championship.

shogun failed to do that, and the odds are always in favor of

the reigning champion, which is why he was awarded the victory.

Rampage VS Griffin was a very close fight. IMO Rampage lost it but Griffin didn't win, and Rampage didn't get the win. I believe that judges are influenced by UFC's financial interests and marketing champs.

to win the against the champion, you have to win overwhelmingly

just like lyoto did when he won the championship.

shogun failed to do that, and the odds are always in favor of

the reigning champion, which is why he was awarded the victory.

Watch Rampage vs Griffin

To me the Shogun stats are spot on, remember, he was the one chipping away at the legs of Machida for five whole rounds, plus landing jabs and elbows here and there for five rounds.

Lyoto after round two barely used striking to the head, he limited himself to the occasional straight left to counter a leg kick

I go back to Joe Rogan here.. I know, people are tired of hearing of him.

But several times Joe was talkin about "nice body kick" when Lyoto BLOCKED that **** with his shin/knee, or even arm. And if Fightmetric is any indication of what Joe was saying, then yes, Shogun's stats were bloated, and Lyoto's were underrepresented.

One final point about these statistics systems. I can't think of a time, offhand, that statistics systems have disagreed significantly with the announcers/commentators. Compubox, every time, seems to fall in line with the announcers, regardless of whether the announcers are full of **** that night or not. I tend to suspect fightmetric is quite similar in that regard.

Oh..and one more point on top of my last: Takedown defense..

I thought judges awarded when a fighter successfully defends against a takedown attempt. Lyoto defended against at least a couple of them

Muy Thai and Kickboxing are both striking based, while jui jitsu and wrestling is grappling of course, so exactly what arts did shogun mix to try and win the fight... get out of here with that fail sh*t I am rarely if ever wrong when anylazing a fight because I do it unbiased. I watched the entire fight most of it without listening to the dumb ass commentators, obviously you didn't...

Where did I say fail in my response........He mixed using Muay Thai and Kickboxing, the same as Machida and clearly out punched or kicked him, so all your fuzz is unexplainable. Not all MMA have wrestling or Jiu-jitsu.

I go back to Joe Rogan here.. I know, people are tired of hearing of him.

But several times Joe was talkin about "nice body kick" when Lyoto BLOCKED that **** with his shin/knee, or even arm. And if Fightmetric is any indication of what Joe was saying, then yes, Shogun's stats were bloated, and Lyoto's were underrepresented.

One final point about these statistics systems. I can't think of a time, offhand, that statistics systems have disagreed significantly with the announcers/commentators. Compubox, every time, seems to fall in line with the announcers, regardless of whether the announcers are full of **** that night or not. I tend to suspect fightmetric is quite similar in that regard.


True, he blocked several but clearly you can see that most of them hit their mark and from Machida's body language you can see it clearly affected him. Rogan and most of the people in the arena were rooting for Machida but upon seeing him get out kicked by Shogun and not being productive enough it turned them around. Takedown defense, yeah there about five or four take down attempt but also the judges give or in this case should have given points in the clinch where Rua's knees were hitting Lyoto's knees without mercy. But with Cecil Peoples's comments one can see where the real bias was.

Old news, but I finally watched the fight. And yes, Shogun got robbed.

The first two rounds were close and could arguably have gone either way, although Shogun was able to do significant damage to Machida's legs, which enabled him to take over the fight from the 3rd. Machida's legs were being iced in the corner from round 1.

Rounds 3-5 were Shogun's rounds hands down.

Rampage VS Griffin was a very close fight. IMO Rampage lost it but Griffin didn't win, and Rampage didn't get the win. I believe that judges are influenced by UFC's financial interests and marketing champs.

do you really believe that? im not knocking you, cause anyone can believe anything they want. i will say im a huge mma fan and watch all the events and really like the ufc the most out of all the orgs. i really hope this isnt the case and that if we ever find out that is true, it will be a huge let down and i may stop following the ufc. dana claims they have no control of the judging and that its completley separate, but i guess you never know what goes on behing closed doors.

do you really believe that? im not knocking you, cause anyone can believe anything they want. i will say im a huge mma fan and watch all the events and really like the ufc the most out of all the orgs. i really hope this isnt the case and that if we ever find out that is true, it will be a huge let down and i may stop following the ufc. dana claims they have no control of the judging and that its completley separate, but i guess you never know what goes on behing closed doors.

I think that the UFC most certainly has control over the officiating.

I heard an interview recently of John Mccarthy in which he said, that while Dana White claims to have nothing to do with the selection of referees, such is not the case, and the athletic commissions will not choose a referee who the UFC disproves of for a UFC event. For the record, I believe I heard this on the Sirius Radio MMA broadcast.

On a side note, it is really just petty bull**** with Big John, who is hands-down the best ref in the business. However, he broke with the UFC, and Dana, being the ***** that he is (and the UFC being the monopolists that they are) seek to cut him off from working in their organization.

That said, the UFC seems to have less control over judges than they do over referees.

On a second side note, it is my personal opinion that the UFC is a ****ty organization, which I would not mind to see fold.