What's the difference between these three men?

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/LAW/10/28/schiavo.lkl/story.schiavo.jpg

http://www.cnn.com/US/OJ/daily/9601/01-21/simpson.jpg

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/US/West/04/19/peterson.case/story.peterson.booking.jpg

What really took place on March 5, 1991? And why does Michael want her body cremated instead of burying her in Florida?

The last one is an innocent man that was convicted purely on "circumstantial evidence". That is just my opinion.

Schiavo is trying to kill his wife...... O.J. DID.

Random Fact:

Did you know? That peterson was on Phil Mickelson's college golf team? wierd huh?

I expect to see some angry critics attack me for the Schiavo comment. I am being technical though, It is considered Killing.

The last one is an innocent man that was convicted purely on "circumstantial evidence". That is just my opinion.

Schiavo is trying to kill his wife...... O.J. DID.

Random Fact:

Did you know? That peterson was on Phil Mickelson's college golf team? wierd huh?

I expect to see some angry critics attack me for the Schiavo comment. I am being technical though, It is considered Killing.


....It may have been circumstantial but I'm about 99% sure he did it and I'm sure you are too. Besides, he could have helped himself by showing at least a hint of emotion about his wife and unborn son being dead. He has to be one of the coldest ****ers I have ever seen. He has the emotion and feeling of a sociopath.

Excuse me but who is the last guy?

Excuse me but who is the last guy?

Scott Peterson.

and the first guy is schiavo right?

Terry Schiavo wants to die, she just can't say it.

you call if killing her, I call it letting her die. which is what she'd do if they didnt keep a feeding tube in her.

kinda harsh(idiotic?) to put michael schiavo next to two men who most likely murdered their wives.

You'd die too if you werent fed..

You'd die too if you werent fed..

Nope, he can still eat without help.

And if he decides no to it's his decision.

Terry Schiavo wants to die, she just can't say it.

you call if killing her, I call it letting her die. which is what she'd do if they didnt keep a feeding tube in her.

kinda harsh(idiotic?) to put michael schiavo next to two men who most likely murdered their wives.

You are missing the point and the questions that I asked bro. How about reading the posts next time before you comment on them.

You'd die too if you werent fed..

she's not a starving person. she's a starving vegitable. most of her brain is mush!! Her problems extend much, much further than being hungry, jack.
I mean, if you were in this position, you'd want to be kept alive?? It is her time to die, and our machines simply prolong an inevitable death.

If I was was hungry, then fed...id be back on a feet. she's not going to ever get up.

Hey, I think Neuraxis is implying that her husband is a wife batterer

He must have been on a site like this:

http://www.rense.com/general63/scan.htm

http://img88.exs.cx/img88/1980/bonescan6lw.jpg

http://www.zimp.org/stuff/03%20-%20WalkerDepositionDepo.htm

Court Document

November 21, 2003, deposition
(excerpts) taken from Dr. Walker, a board-certified radiologist at Manatee Memorial Hospital. Dr. Walker is the doctor that prepared the bone-scan report from the image of Terri Schiavo taken on March 5, 1991.
15 Q What is a total-body bone scan used for
16 typically?
17 A It's to look for abnormalities of the
18 bone, whether they -- if they would be recent
19 abnormalities.
20 Q Recent --
21 A Recent.
22 Q -- abnormalities?
23 A Correct.
24 Q Is it also a technique to diagnose
25 osteoporosis?
1 A No.
3 Q And the next sentence, "There are an
4 extensive number of focal abnormal areas of nuclide
5 accumulation of intense type." What does that mean?
6 A Well, that means that there are a lot of
7 areas that look black on the images because lots of
8 that radioactive decaying material was happening at
9 those points and was being recorded by the imaging
10 system.
11 Q Okay. "These include multiple bilateral
12 ribs." What would that mean to you?
13 A Well, you know, there's left ribs and
14 right ribs. And that would mean that more than two
15 ribs on each side were involved.
13 Q "Several of the thoracic vertebral
14 bodies, the L1 vertebral body, both sacroiliac
15 joints." These are all areas that were abnormal on
16 the scan?
17 A That's what this indicates, yes.
18 Q "The distal right femoral diaphysis,"
19 what area of the body is that?
20 A That would be the right leg, the upper
21 part of the right leg.
22 Q Distal?
23 A Above the knee.
5 Q So on the thigh bone above the kneecap
6 but not involving the joint?
7 A That's what that particular thing says,
8 but I think somewhere in there also, it mentioned
9 that both knees --
10 Q Right. Right after that.
11 A Right after that. So that's different
12 from the knee activity.
13 Q And, "Both ankles, right greater than
14 left." Those are two additional areas that showed
15 up as abnormalities on the scan?
16 A That's correct. Correct.
13 Q Would you draw any conclusions from that
14 how old the ossification was?
15 A You could say that it wasn't real old,
16 because typically, as we mentioned, the bone is a
17 dynamic structure, and it's constantly being
18 remodeled normally. So the body tends to take away
19 extra bone eventually to remodel it to look like
20 normal bone. So typically old bone injuries are
21 remodeled so that eventually they may almost
22 disappear, particularly in young people. In the
23 very young, a fracture you won't even see in three
24 or four years, it will be totally erased.
8 Q Then you go on to say, "Most likely the
9 femoral periosteal reaction reflects a response to a
10 subperiosteal hemorrhage." Would that be a bone
11 bruise?
12 A Correct.
16 Q Then you go on to say, "And the activity
17 in L1 correlates perfectly with the compression
18 fracture which is presumably traumatic."
19 A That's what it says.
20 Q In other words, the x-ray confirmed the
21 L1 fracture?
22 A The x-ray shows an abnormality at L1
23 which happens to correspond with the abnormal bone
24 turnover on the bone scan at that point.
7 Q Is this compression fracture, then, in
8 common parlance, a broken back?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Is there any way to tell how old that
11 fracture would be?
12 A Well, as I've alluded to, the bone scan
13 gives some suggestion of that.
14 Q More recent rather than less recent?
15 A Correct. Typically in trauma the rule of
16 thumb is that a traumatic fracture is not active on
17 the bone scan after 12 to 18 months.
9 Q The report goes on to say, "The
10 presumption is that the other multiple areas of
11 abnormal activity also relate to previous trauma."
12 A That's what it says.
13 Q And, again, that's based on the fact that
14 Dr. Carnahan is a rehab physician, that you were
15 asked to evaluate for trauma?
16 A And the pattern of activity is fairly
17 typical of multiple traumatic injuries of relatively
18 recent origin.
19 Q I realize you can't assign a cause to
20 these injuries that you picked up in this report.
21 But typically in your experience, what would be the
22 causes of this pattern of abnormality?
23 A In somebody her age, an auto accident is
24 by far the most typical cause.
25 Q Assume that she was not in an auto
1 accident but that she had suffered an anoxic or
2 hypoxic encephalopathy type of injury from a cardiac
3 arrest and had been bedridden for a year at this
4 point. What might account for these abnormalities?
5 A In my knowledge, that type of injury
6 would not account for this pattern of abnormalities.
5 Q Okay. Is this a pattern of heterotrophic
6 ossification as reported in the literature that you
7 looked at?
8 A Not typically.
9 Q What makes it atypical?
10 A Well, if I were to pick one thing, I
11 would say the activity in the ribs is not typical.
12 And typically heterotrophic ossification occurs
13 around the joints because they're not being moved.
14 And typically you will see on the radiographs
15 calcium deposits actually sitting there. And they
16 don't look like periosteal reaction typically
17 either; they have a different appearance.
4 Q Can you say, then, within a reasonable
5 degree of medical certainty whether this bone scan
6 is consistent with heterotrophic ossification?
7 A In my knowledge, it's not consistent with
8 heterotrophic ossification as I typically see it.
21 Q Okay. And later on in your direct
22 examination you were saying that traumatic fractures
23 typically are not active on a bone scan after 12 to
24 18 months. Is that correct?
25 A That's correct.
19 Q Okay. Is there any way for you to say
20 from looking at this report when any of these
21 occurrences took place that caused the abnormality
22 to appear on the bone scan?
23 A I can only say that if they were
24 traumatic that they probably occurred within 18
25 months.
1 Q Is it possible that the abnormalities
2 that you noted on the right femoral diaphysis and
3 metaphysis could have occurred if the patient was
4 standing and suffered a cardiac arrest and fell to
5 the floor?
6 A Probably not. That wouldn't be a typical
7 mechanism of injury that would cause a periosteal
8 bruise. Typically you need a direct blow of some
9 kind. I suppose one could speculate that she fell
10 on a piece of furniture, that that could produce
11 that injury. But just typically falling on the
12 floor would not do that.
9 Q Okay. The bone scan and radiographic
10 report shows only one fracture. And that is a
11 compression fracture to L1. Correct?
12 A Well, I should clarify that by stating
13 that not all of the areas of bone-scan abnormality
14 were imaged concurrently. Okay. And that's
15 important. In other words, we didn't x-ray every
16 area that was hot on there. A couple of typical
17 areas were imaged but not all. Of those areas that
18 were imaged, the only area that showed what was a
19 clear fracture was L1.
2 Q The radiographs did not show any
3 fractures of the right femur. Correct?
4 A They don't show a typical fracture. They
5 show periosteal reaction, which could be the result
6 of a bone bruise, which is a bone injury that's not
7 a loss of continuity of the structure of the bone.
8 So to the extent that you define fracture as a loss
9 of structural continuity, then, yes, that is an
10 actual fracture as is typically described.
10 Q Okay. If an immobile patient is going
11 through physical therapy and part of the physical
12 therapy is to have manual manipulation of the legs,
13 particularly flexing of the knees, is it possible
14 that that physical therapy would result in an
15 abnormal appearance on a bone scan?
16 MS. ANDERSON: Objection. That question,
17 I think, is virtually unanswerable because it
18 is so vague.
19 A I could only speculate.
20 Q Okay. In your opinion, is that something
21 that would show up on a bone scan?
22 A I would think only if the joint were
23 injured would it show up on a bone scan. Just
24 simple manipulation of an injured part should not
25 show up as an abnormality on a bone scan.
22 Q Would a kick be the kind of direct blow
23 that would produce that femoral abnormality?
24 A That would be a possibility, yes.
25 Q Would being thrown into a sharp furniture
1 corner?
2 A That would be a possibility.
3 Q Would being struck with some sort of
4 blunt object like a golf club or something do it?
5 A Yes.
22 Q You mentioned that you have seen
23 fractures in bedridden patients before?
24 A Yes.
25 Q How frequently have you seen that?
1 A Rare.
2 Q It's rare?
3 A Yes.

http://www.rense.com/general63/after.htm

Dr. States Terri Struck On
Head AFTER Her
Initial Trauma
3-26-5


Doctor states that Terri was hit on the head between day 2 and 6 after collapse FEB/March 1990; Suffered intracranial hemorrhage while in hospital.

(This suggests someone visited her in the hospital and struck her while she lay in bed. -ed)

"In another emerging revelation, another neurologist who examined the timeline of Terri's brain scans found that for the first three days of her initial hospitalization in 1990, her brain scans were normal. Then suddenly, on the sixth day, her brain scan showed evidence of a massive injury. He concludes that Terri was hit on the head and suffered intracranial hemorrhage while in the hospital. The physician maintains that she did not suffer her brain damage outside the hospital but while she was hospitalized.

According to the physician, if the reports produced are accurate (normal CT brain on Feb. 27, injury on Feb. 25, 1990) then she did not suffer an event of massive ischemia on Feb. 25, 1990, the date of her alleged 'collapse' The physician says that there is no radiologist or neurologist or neurosurgeon in the world that would dispute this as it is impossible. The CT on Feb. 27, 1990, would have been grossly abnormal."

The entire article including Terri's NORMAL original brain scan is at:

http://theempirejournal.com/14902_new_evidence_of_alleged_as.htm



Funny thing is, most people jump on me and make fun of me if I pull information from sites like this. They call you a crazy conspiracy theorist - or a liberal, which I guess, even when it's inaccurate, is always an easy name-calling gesture from those who think that being called a liberal is like being called a 4-letter word. Guess if it advances your personal position it's ok...

"more alternative news":

http://www.rense.com/general63/fifteen.htm

Terri Schiavo: The
Fifteen Year Murder
By Barbara J. Stock
RenewAmerica.us
3-26-5


The clock is ticking. All of America is listening and the ticking is growing louder and louder. Within the next 24 hours, America will find out if Jeb Bush is made of the same presidential timber that makes up his brother George or is Jeb just firewood. Will he cower in the face a suspect Judge Greer or will he do what he knows in his gut is right? Time will tell us. Would Judge Greer order the arrest of the popular governor of Florida and brother of the President of the United States? Probably. Greer has the ego for it. Greer is but one of the judges running wild in our country today. Jeb Bush is Terri's last hope.

Everyone is talking about Terri Schiavo. What amazed me was how little people really know. Many people tell me they think she was on a ventilator, hence the term "pull the plug." They are shocked to find out she was not on a machine to breathe. "You mean all she needs to live is a little tube in her stomach?" they ask. Terri had a massive heart attack all those years ago, that is why she is this way: another misconception. Tests the morning she was brought into the emergency room ruled out a heart attack that very day. People's eyes narrow when they are told she was found to have a fractured cervical spine and fractured femur and other traumatic injuries. If Terri had died that night in 1990, odds are, Michael Schiavo would have been arrested on the suspicion of murder, based on the physical injuries found on his wife, Terri Schiavo. When someone dies under suspicious conditions, an autopsy must be done. It's the law. Even Michael could not have stopped it.

Now incredulous, people ask how those fractures happened. That is a very good question. That is a question that Judge Greer has never asked, nor has he cared. No one, it seems, cares what happened to Terri all those years ago. No one except her parents and siblings, and their pleas for justice fall on the deaf ears of the American judicial system more concerned with how Europe views our laws than upholding the laws America has right now. Our courts are more interested in writing laws than ruling on present law.

Terri's full body bone scan showed numerous areas of trauma. Read the extent of her injuries HERE. Why was nothing done? Nothing was done because it is likely Terri's parents didn't know. Michael had sealed Terri's medical records away from them. Now, we know why.

The Supreme Court did what it does best. It said, "We don't care." They passed sentence on Terri without explanation and without even having to reveal if the decision was unanimous. After all, they are the Supreme Court, they answer to no one - ever.

As a nurse of 26 years, I am constantly amazed at how little respect we nurses receive. In the news we hear that nurses are desperately needed but why should we bother? Apparently we are just ignorant bed-pan-slingers of no importance to the courts. We don't even have the intelligence to know when a patient is responding to us. We do not know if a patient is in pain.

How long does your doctor spend with you at the bedside when you are in the hospital? If it is a loved one in the hospital, how many times have you spent hours waiting just to see the doctor to ask him a question? Who is it that you see all the time? You see the nurse. Who knows what is going on? Your nurse knows. While we spend hours with our patients over days, weeks, months sometimes, our statements or opinions are somehow considered unimportant and uninformed while a doctor who spends minutes interacting with the patient is bowed down to and considered the "expert."

It is not the doctor that saves your life in the hospital, it is the nurse, who knows her patients; spots a change - however small - and takes the necessary steps to stop a crisis before it becomes a crisis.

In Terri's case, nurses who spent hours taking care of Terri, talking, laughing, joking and even sneaking food to her are being ignored. Day after day they saw her; interacted with her; talked to her; bathed her and yet, all of their statements are waved aside - what do they know, they are just nurses. Yet, a man with MD after his name spends 45 minutes with Terri and his words are considered God-like. Judge Greer says the nurse's statements are not "credible." How dare he.

If Terri feels no pain, why was morphine ordered for her for a toothache and menstrual cramps? If her brain is incapable of comprehending discomfort, why does she need pain medication at all? Patients in a true vegetative state do not feel pain, yet, Terri was medicated for pain. WHY? Could it possibly be the doctor/God is wrong? One thing I am sure of: There is more about the brain we don't know than we can possibly imagine. It is said we only use about 10% of our brain. What I do know is that our bodies can and have done amazing things that shock doctors every day.

In my years of dealing with doctors I have found that certain personalities are attracted to certain specialties. Have you even met a pediatrician you didn't like?

Neurologists seem to feel that since their specialty is the brain, they are above all others. I have often heard people complain that the neurologist that had treated them acted as though he was doing them a favor, lowering himself to touch them. Some patients have told me these doctors will not even allow questions to be asked of them. If you don't like their opinion, get out. Don't speak, just listen. They are God. You do not question God. It should be no wonder that Judge Greer and Dr. Cranford got along so well. They think alike. They both think they are God.

In Terri's case, the neurologist, Dr. Ronald Cranford, is an avid supporter of the right to "humanely kill" someone who isn't perfect. He is often sought after as a speaker for the Hemlock Society. Dr. Cranford is on the board of "Choice in Dying," a group that advocates euthanasia. What is the Doctor's answer to Alzheimer's disease? Kill them. Dr. Cranford is not exactly without a pre-set opinion whenever he sees someone who has a brain injury or disease. His first instinct is to kill them. Judge Greer, who has never laid eyes on Terri, believes Cranford's every word as if it were carved in stone. Other experts need not submit an opinion. Based on past rulings in other cases, Judge Greer is also an advocate of killing those who cannot speak for themselves. Terri is not his first victim.

In truth, if you believe Terri cannot feel pain because her brain has been "liquefied," and cannot feel the pain of dying of dehydration, then what is the big hurry to kill her? She isn't suffering. She isn't hurting anyone by living. The only one who stands to gain from her death is her "loving" husband who can promptly dispose of any remaining evidence that might shed light on the events that put her where she is today. He will order her body instantly cremated, probably before her body is cold.

Terri is, in fact, evidence in a possible capital crime.

Terri was not bulimic nor anorexic. Tests upon her arrival at the ER that day clearly ruled out a heart attack. The doctors were puzzled. A healthy, normal young woman just "collapses" at home for no apparent reason. Did she choke on food? No. Did she stick her head in a plastic bag? No. Did she fall down a flight of stairs thus sustaining a cervical injury and a fractured femur? Apparently she did not. The toxicology scan was negative. Then what DID happen that morning in 1990 when Terri Schiavo's life changed so radically? No explanation has ever been brought forward. It seems no explanation was ever sought. A lazy or incompetent police department did not follow up on the paramedic's report of suspected domestic violence. But then, pre-OJ, police didn't bother to follow up such things. Terri couldn't lodge a complaint, so they didn't care.

One of Terri's nurses stated she discovered a bottle of regular insulin in a thrash can in Terri's room after a visit from Michael. She handed the bottle and her statement over to the police at the time. When the nurse checked Terri's blood sugar, it was too low to register. She put sugar on her tongue to counteract the insulin. She found new needle marks on Terri's body. All that ever came of it was that the nurse was fired! Last time I checked, that is called attempted murder! This needs to be investigated, yet when the police were contacted by Bill O'Reilly, they hung up on him. If they are embarrassed, they should be.

Several nurses swore under oath that their documentation on Terri talking, laughing, and swallowing was removed from the chart, which is illegal. The lawyer for Michael Schiavo, Mr. Felos, not only gave money to Judge Greer in 2004, but is under investigation for Medicare and Medicaid fraud. What in God's name do these judges need to ask themselves, "What is going on here?"

...Michael Schiavo has shown himself to be a liar. He swore at the malpractice trials that he needed enough money to care for Terri, his beloved wife, for the rest of her life. He became a nurse so he could give her all the care she needed for as many years as God gave her. Once the money was in hand, he threw her in a nursing home, withdrew all therapy, slapped "Do Not Resuscitate" on her chart and started talking about rich he was going to be when Terri died. His death watch had begun.

During the years it took Michael to win the money, Terri got reasonably good care. She was talking and walking with assistance. There was not a whisper about her wishing to be allowed to die if she ever became "a vegetable." Only after Michael had the money in his hands did he suddenly remember her "wishes." After that, she was treated worse than a man on death row. Suddenly she was just a "house-plant." All therapy was forbidden. On one interview with Larry King, he admitted it was HIS wish that Terri die, not hers. That she had never told him what she would want him to do. A past girl friend stated he told her Terri had said nothing about it.

I saw Michael's brother on television. He apologized for missing a scheduled interview the night before but he explained he was at his brother's side, comforting him. Michael was at Terri's bedside, inconsolable and sobbing over his much-loved and dying wife. I thought I was going to be physically ill. Michael was sobbing? The same Michael who would bring his dates to Terri's room and point to her like she was part of a freak show and say, "See, I told you she was dying." Was that the same Michael that would salivate with excitement every time Terri ****ed a temperature and then would call every hour to see if she was dead yet? The same Michael that would constantly ask, "Is the ***** dead yet?" "Isn't there some way we can hurry her death?" That Michael?

It is unbelievable to me that judges and courts who have sworn to uphold the law and protect the citizens of this country turn a blind eye to boxes of evidence that screams to be reviewed. There has been no justice for Terri or her family. The law has slapped them at every turn. Instead, they have all ruled in favor of a greedy, adulterous, and possibly abusive husband who has admitted that she never expressed her wishes to him or anyone else.

Repeatedly our courts these days rule in favor of death. It's as though they have a love-affair with the power and death. Oddly, they vote to save the murderers and kill the victims.

If Terri dies, there must be changes made. Our constitution clearly defines three separate but equal branches of government. There are not two branches and one supreme branch that rules over the other two. Judges need to be brought back down to earth with the rest of us mortals. They are not God, no matter how strongly they may feel that they are. Courts have ruled that unborn babies have no rights. Now, even the living who can't speak have no rights. Where does this end?

I am not a religious radical and I resent everyone who supports life being called a "God freak." Is it a crime these days in America to believe in God and life? I have been present when the plug was pulled. My own brother had his IV nutrition removed when he realized there was no hope. I was at peace with his decision because it was HIS decision to make and he made it. He only had days to live, no matter what he did. My brother starved to death from stomach cancer and I can tell you, he was in agony. There was nothing "euphoric" about his death.

If Terri had put in black and white that it was HER wish to die, I would not be involved in this all. But we do not know what her wishes were and I simply do not believe a lying, cheating, cruel, and repulsive man who carries on the sham of being her loving husband.

Interestingly, hate and love are close on the emotional scale. It isn't love Michael Schiavo has for Terri. Terri's death is his final act of control. His final act of control over her tortured adult life: he is ending it and I have no doubt he will celebrate and make a final toast to the "*****" because, at last, she will be dead.

As far as I am concerned, five minutes after Terri dies, a fund should be started and it should be called: Terri's Justice. That money should be used to hire private investigators and medical experts to pour over every minute of Terri's life after she married Michael Schiavo. The family should press for charges against Michael Schiavo for murder at the very least and certainly for the wrongful death of their daughter. He can destroy her body, but he can't destroy the medical records, the test results, the bone scans, and the legions of people who line up to testify against him. Terri may be dead, but in the end, she will have the last laugh and then, she can rest in peace.

- Barbara J. Stock is an RN of over 23 years and is fairly new to political writing. She has had articles posted on BushCountry, GOPUSA, AmericanDaily, RepublicanDailyNews, Town Hall, OpinionEditorials, and the Judson Cox Newsletter. She has her own website called Republican and Proud and welcomes comments at dickens502003@yahoo.com

© Copyright 2005 by Barbara J. Stock

alright, Neuraxis

What's the difference between these three men?

I'd say two of them went to trial for murdering their wives. while the other one is trying to honor his wife's wishes and be put to death.

What really happened 15 years ago?? are you implying that foul play was involved? Are you kidding? She shows up to the hospital unconscious and you dont think they looked for any signs of abuse? Wouldnt police have been notified? You dont wait for someone to die before detectives are called to investigate. Ever heard of attempted murder? she abused her own body through belemia and suffered a stroke. the longer a stroke goes untreated..the worse the effects are...result...veggie.

Her being cremated is another example of the husband trying to honor his wife's wishes.

this kind of thing happens all the time. my mother has to sign off on having her father's feeding tube removed when he never came out of his coma.

but keep coming with it, Neuraxis. i love hearing the other side's argument on why a vegetable should have to lay on a bed wasting away. i hope one day i can visit you in the same state.

I've been trying to stay out of political threads lately because I often have a differing view from other people and end up getting attacked.

I jumped in here when some hostility occurred.

For the record, I don't know whether to buy what I've just posted or not; I do think the Supreme Court decision is correct and overdue. You can go to that same website and find "proof" that Terri is "living and alert." An eyeball recognition or a random grunt after 15 years is not living.

They've played god for 15 years trying to cheat death. Now the religious right wants to call it murder when they stop wasting money, time, energy, and all kinds of emotion on a lost cause...

More bizarre propaganda to help stir the pot:

http://www.rense.com/general63/abt.htm

Facts About Terri
By Karen August
OpinionEditorials.com
3-26-5


I have personally gone to the website of the Terri Schindler Schiavo Foundation, www.terrisfight.org, and read every court document filed in the last several years. It makes me crazy when people on TV news and talk shows start their mouths without engaging their brains. They make comments that are so beyond the pale that it's no wonder people voting in polls base their vote on bad information and completely skew the results.

There must be an investigation of this case. It doesn't pass the Smell Test. In the news this week, authorities are calling for the death penalty for a sex offender who has confessed to the kidnapping and killing of a 9-year-old Florida girl! He will receive every defense that is being denied to Terri Schiavo. He's had 24 previous arrests. Terri Schiavo has never committed a capital crime yet she is under a judicial death sentence!

Florida protects its pets and stray animals. Starve your dog, horse or ****atiel to death in Florida and you'll go to jail, but disabled humans are fair game.

Michael Schiavo's attorney George Felos, an activist for euthanasia, has written a book calling for euthanasia of Florida's Alzheimer patients. Euthanasia is still illegal but Felos is getting around it.

Michael Schiavo's attorney George Felos is on the Board of Directors of the Suncoast Hospice where she's been warehoused for years.

Michael Schiavo has allegedly denied rehabilitation and physical therapy for Terri from the beginning. Malpractice suit awarded her $700,000 for rehabilitation. Michael received $300,000. Where's the money Mike?

Activist Judge George Greer is acting as defense attorney, guardian ad litem, jury, prosecutor, judge and executioner of Terri Schiavo. Oh, that's right ... she's never had her own attorney.

Greer has denied the Department of Children and Families (DCF) to investigate 30 accusations of spousal abuse.

Michael Schiavo, the alleged "loving" husband has for ten years been living with his common-law wife and his two children by her. Is that the actions of till death do us part?

Michael Schiavo is 6'3" tall, weighs 250 lb. and allegedly has a volatile temper. I won't even mention he's been overheard to say "Isn't the ***** dead yet?" to the staff at the Suncoast Hospice. He should make the decision? Not! Of course the one's who've heard him say that have been fired or have quit in disgust. Their affidavits are available on the (court documents section) of www.terrisfight.org ...

Michael Schiavo conveniently remembered that she said years ago the she wouldn't want to live this way. He remembered this after the malpractice suit awarded more than $1 million to Terri for her rehabilitation. $300 thousand award went to Michael. He's paid $385,000 to euthanasia lawyer Felos, plus more yet to Felos's assistants.

Terri Schiavo is not terminal. She is reasonably healthy.

Terri Schiavo is not on any life saving machines, only food and water! Same thing we all need for survival. If she could swallow solid food would you withhold it anyway? Would you starve babies because they need you to hold their bottle to feed them??

Terri Schiavo has never had the rights that convicted murderers on death row have available to them (habeus corpus). A death row sentence is never starvation.

Terri's medical records from the day of her "collapse" have not been investigated. Allegedly there are numerous suspicious fractures on bone scans.

Judge Greer ignored and dismissed testimony from Terri's friend about Terri's anger that Karen Anne Quinlan's parents had disconnected her ventilator. Greer ruled that Quinlan had died in 1979, therefore Terri must have been a mere child when she made the comment. Quinlan actually died on June 11, 1985. which made Terri an adult when she complained about the ventilator being removed. [Terri's friend Diane Meyer testified in 2002 that Terri, in 1982, stated to Meyer that she disapproved of the Quinlan's decision to remove their daughter from life-support. -ed.]

Greer refused to reverse his ruling based on his own mistake. Instead he ruled that Michael Schiavo's hearsay testimony would stand. If the judge had reversed his hearsay ruling, Schiavo would not have been made Terri's guardian. I won't even go into the judge acting as Terri's guardian ad litem while he was sitting as a judge.

Terri Schiavo has never had her own independent attorney.

Terri Schiavo has never been indicted. Wait, she's never been charged with a capital crime!

Terri Schiavo has never had due process. Wait, she's never been charged with a capital crime!

Terri Schiavo has never had a jury of her peers. Wait, she's never been charged with a capital crime!

If you were a quadriplegic, but otherwise in good health ñ not terminally ill ñ would you really choose to be starved to death? Think about this tonight when you have your dinner. Terri is starving through the actions of activist judges and an estranged husband and no fault of her own other than making a poor choice in men.

- Karen August lives with her husband Kevin on their 30-acre ranch in rural Nevada. She is a retired graphic designer who has been dealing with multiple sclerosis for 19 years. Her interests are photographing the Nevada desert on an ATV and advocating for the handicapped.

© 2002 - 2004 Frontiers of Freedom

http://www.opinioneditorials.com/freedomwriters/kaugust_20050325.html

"Reasonably healthy"...lol

alright, Neuraxis



I'd say two of them went to trial for murdering their wives. while the other one is trying to honor his wife's wishes and be put to death.

What really happened 15 years ago?? are you implying that foul play was involved? Are you kidding? She shows up to the hospital unconscious and you dont think they looked for any signs of abuse? Wouldnt police have been notified? You dont wait for someone to die before detectives are called to investigate. Ever heard of attempted murder? she abused her own body through belemia and suffered a stroke. the longer a stroke goes untreated..the worse the effects are...result...veggie.

Her being cremated is another example of the husband trying to honor his wife's wishes.

this kind of thing happens all the time. my mother has to sign off on having her father's feeding tube removed when he never came out of his coma.

but keep coming with it, Neuraxis. i love hearing the other side's argument on why a vegetable should have to lay on a bed wasting away. i hope one day i can visit you in the same state.

When did she ever say on record that she didnt want to live like that? Your problem is that you are blindly believing everything that Michael Schiavo is saying. Quit portraying him as the loving husband. He is engaged to another woman and he already has two kids by her. All of those broken bones would not be the result of her abusing her body.

Since when do vegetables not like swab tests? http://web.tampabay.rr.com/ccb/videos/Terri_Swab.rm

Jackie Rhodes, a former co-worker of Terri's, recounted how she used to see a lot of bruises on Terri's arms and legs. "I just attributed those to maybe running into the desk at work or maybe she was extra-sensitive. But now, hindsight tells me that I did see them quite frequently and that they may have been more than just a bump into the desk."

Rhodes also said the Schiavo marriage was an unhappy one, which should be considered when allowing Michael Schiavo to determine Terri's fate. "Michael and Terri were talking about divorce. ... I don't feel that it should be Michael's decision to have the feeding tube removed."

Diane Meyer, who said she has known Terri since childhood, repudiated Michael's statement that Terri did not want to be kept alive on instruments. "We had a discussion ... about Karen Ann Quinlan, in which Terri made it very clear to me, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that she did not approve of removing Karen Ann Quinlan from the life support. Her quote was exactly, `Where there's life, there's hope.' That's Terri."

I have no idea why there hasn't been an investigation even when Forensic Pathologist Michael Baden reviewed her medical records and concluded that a criminal investigation should be conducted. Baden is pretty well known, so I am going to assume that you know who he is.

If foul play had occured, it would have came out long before now. she was brought to the hospital immediatly after she was found.

it is at this point that doctors would have been able to recognize any signs of abuse and contacted the authorities.

Neuraxis if you used phyical violence to put your wife into a coma and then took her straitht to the hospial, do you think you'd get away with it? You'd have detectives at your house within 1-2 days on your ass!

I added some info to help MWCOFSU get on the same page as you. I'll let you two argue from now on...

If foul play had occured, it would have came out long before now. she was brought to the hospital immediatly after she was found.

it is at this point that doctors would have been able to recognize any signs of abuse and contacted the authorities.

Neuraxis if you used phyical violence to put your wife into a coma and then took her straitht to the hospial, do you think you'd get away with it? You'd have detectives at your house within 1-2 days on your ass!

You must have a lot of faith in our justice system to have that kind of attitude. OJ was innocent as well. :no: :buttkick:

Well I'm through arguing with you if you aren't even going to read anything that neils posted.

You must have a lot of faith in our justice system to have that kind of attitude. OJ was innocent as well. :no: :buttkick:

Well I'm through arguing with you if you aren't even going to read anything that neils posted.

OJ was investigated !! See the difference? Peterson was also investigated. There were actual signs of foul play at time of the incident, unlike terry schiavo.

All these findings now are nothing but doctors trying to get their names in the paper. One doctor got on CNN to say "she's not a vegetable" after only seeing a short video of terry. are you gonna believe him too? haha. maybe if neils posts it you'll feel better.

maybe they had a terrible marriage. maybe he hit her. but none of that resulted in her being in a coma.

as far as that cute swab video you showed me? you should have seen what my grandfather did when they rammed **** up his nose to clean out his passages to avoid infection. a vegetable still moves around and moans...their brains are still mush. the doctor assured my mom that he couldnt feel a thing. get your boy neils to show her brain scan where most of her brain is shriveled up and nothing. NO ONE has ever came back from that. sorry Neuraxis, she's a vegetable.

OJ was investigated !! See the difference? Peterson was also investigated. There were actual signs of foul play at time of the incident, unlike terry schiavo.

All these findings now are nothing but doctors trying to get their names in the paper. One doctor got on CNN to say "she's not a vegetable" after only seeing a short video of terry. are you gonna believe him too? haha. maybe if neils posts it you'll feel better.

maybe they had a terrible marriage. maybe he hit her. but none of that resulted in her being in a coma.

as far as that cute swab video you showed me? you should have seen what my grandfather did when they rammed **** up his nose to clean out his passages to avoid infection. a vegetable still moves around and moans...their brains are still mush. the doctor assured my mom that he couldnt feel a thing. get your boy neils to show her brain scan where most of her brain is shriveled up and nothing. NO ONE has ever came back from that. sorry Neuraxis, she's a vegetable.

OJ didn't have the evidence locked up so no one could see. OJ didn't to my knowledge give large "donations" to the judge either. See the difference?

You don't have reactions to something if you are brain dead. She is simply brain damanged. People can recover from her state. I think that you need to do some research on Ryan Corbin. But you are getting me sidetracked again. We are talking about Michael not Terri here. Sorry MWCOFSU, Michael is guilty. :thumbsdow

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=564&e=1&u=/nm/rights_schiavo_dc



Schiavo to Undergo Autopsy to End Debate -- Lawyer

49 minutes ago Top Stories - Reuters


By Jane Sutton

PINELLAS PARK, Fla. (Reuters) - The husband of brain-damaged Florida woman Terri Schiavo has ordered an autopsy after she dies to silence allegations his plan to cremate her body is aimed at hiding something, his lawyer said on Monday.

As supporters of Schiavo's parents took their fight to prolong her life to Washington 10 days after her feeding was stopped, Michael Schiavo's lawyer, George Felos, said her pulse had become "thready" and she had not passed urine for a while -- a possible sign of approaching death.


He said Michael Schiavo, who has been pitted against the parents in a seven-year legal conflict over whether to allow Schiavo to die, requested an official autopsy to show the "massive" extent of the brain damage she suffered in 1990.


"We didn't think it was appropriate to talk about an autopsy prior to Mrs. Schiavo's death," Felos told reporters outside his law office in Dunedin, Florida.


"But because claims have been made by, I guess, opponents of carrying out her wishes that there was some motive behind the cremation of Mrs. Schiavo we felt it was necessary to make that announcement today."


Disagreement over the planned cremation rather than the full burial demanded by Schiavo's Roman Catholic parents has been a subplot to the long legal battle.


The fate of the woman, who has been in a persistent vegetative state since suffering cardiac arrest, has become a cause for Christian conservatives and drawn in Congress, President Bush and his brother, Florida Gov. Jeb Bush.


State courts have accepted testimony from Michael Schiavo and others that she did not want to be kept alive artificially, but her parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, disagree, and maintain she tries to communicate with them.


Pressured by the Christian right, Congress passed a special law that allowed the Schindlers to take their case to federal court, and President Bush cut short a vacation to sign it.


The effort proved in vain as court after court -- all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court -- rejected a flurry of petitions since the feeding tube was disconnected on March 18.


Nevertheless, supporters of Bob and Mary Schindler again appealed for federal or state intervention.


"This is about the soul of our nation, the soul of our church," said Michael McMonagle, spokesman for the Pro-Life Union of Southeastern Pennsylvania, as around two dozen protesters gathered in a park across from the White House.


Outside the hospice in Pinellas Park, Florida, where Schiavo is being cared for, the protesters were dismissive of Michael Schiavo's plans for an autopsy.


"It's a way to cover his behind," said Randall Terry, an anti-abortion activist speaking for the Schindlers.


Bob Schindler, who has at times asserted his daughter was in her final hours and at others maintained that it was not too late to intervene, said earlier she was "fighting like hell."


Doctors said when the feeding tube was disconnected that she would likely last for up to two weeks without sustenance.


Schindler said Schiavo was beginning to look like a Nazi "concentration camp" survivor and voiced a fear that hospice staff might try to hasten her end by giving her an overdose of morphine.

"We do not hasten death in any way, nor do we prolong life. That is not our role," said Louise Cleary, a spokeswoman for the Hospice of the Florida Suncoast.

Felos said Schindler's fears were misplaced. He said Schiavo was not on a morphine drip but had received two "minuscule" 5 milligram doses of the opiate since March 18.

He said he visited her on Monday and she looked peaceful and calm.

"Mrs. Schiavo's pulse is described by the nursing staff as thready. Also she has had no urine output since last night," Felos said. Doctors say a lack of urine would be an early indication that Schiavo's kidneys are shutting down.

"I saw no evidence of any bodily discomfort whatsoever. It doesn't appear from at least me seeing her, and you know I'm not a doctor by any means, but it doesn't appear her death is imminent but it's just impossible to say," Felos said.

(Additional reporting by JoAnne Allen and Tabassum Zakaria in Washington, and Robert Green in Pinellas Park)

Are these parents sadists? It's bad enough it's illegal to euthanize her, now they want her to go out painfully?!? It's illegal to starve a dog...I don't think they should keep her alive, but they should show some compassion in ending her life. Maybe the autopsy will end the debates after she's dead and people will move onto a new cause...

Schiavo's Parents Not Swayed by Autopsy By MITCH STACY, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 23 minutes ago



LARGO, Fla. - An autopsy that found Terri Schiavo suffered from severe and irreversible brain-damage has done nothing to sway her parents' position that she deserved to live and may have gotten better with therapy.

The long-awaited report Wednesday found Schiavo's brain had shrunk to about half the normal size for a woman her age when she died March 31 after her feeding tube was disconnected. The autopsy also determined she was blind.

Bob and Mary Schindler disputed the results, insisting their daughter interacted with them and tried to speak. Their attorney said the family plans to discuss the autopsy with other medical experts and may take some unspecified legal action.

"We knew all along that Terri was profoundly brain damaged," said Schiavo's brother, Bobby Schindler. "We simply wanted to bring her home and care for her. It all goes back to this quality of life."

The findings vindicated Schiavo's husband in his long and vitriolic battle with his in-laws that engulfed the courts, Congress and the White House and divided the country. Michael Schiavo and court-appointed doctors have said she had no hope of recovery. She died at age 41.

The autopsy also found no evidence that Terri Schiavo was strangled or otherwise abused before her sudden 1990 collapse — countering allegations by the Schindlers that she was abused by her husband.

Yet medical examiners could not say for certain what caused the collapse, long thought to have been brought on by an eating disorder.

George Felos, attorney for Michael Schiavo, said the findings back up their contentions made "for years and years" that Terri Schiavo had no hope of recovery. He said Michael Schiavo plans to release autopsy photographs of her shrunken brain.

"Mr. Schiavo has received so much criticism throughout this case that I'm certain there's a part of him that was pleased to hear these results and the hard science behind them," Felos said.

The Schindlers fought their son-in-law in court over their daughter's fate for nearly seven years, battling to the end with conservatives at their side.

The autopsy counters a widely seen videotape the Schindlers released of Schiavo in her hospice bed. The video showed Schiavo appearing to turn toward her mother's voice and smile. She moaned and laughed. Her head moved up and down and she seemed to follow the progress of a brightly colored Mickey Mouse balloon.

Schiavo's parents said that showed she was aware of her surroundings, but doctors said her reactions were automatic responses and not evidence of thought or consciousness.

"There's nothing in her autopsy report that is inconsistent with a persistent vegetative state," said Dr. Stephen J. Nelson, a medical examiner who assisted in the neurological portion of the autopsy.

The cause of death was dehydration from removal of the feeding tube, but the underlying reason for her brain damage was officially listed as "undetermined."

The autopsy included 274 external and internal body images and an exhaustive review of Schiavo's medical records, police reports and social services agency records.

Pinellas-Pasco Medical Examiner Dr. Jon Thogmartin said that the autopsy produced no conclusion on what triggered the temporary heart stoppage that caused her collapse and brain damage. He said there was no evidence of drug use, though he cautioned that Schiavo was not tested in 1990 for every conceivable substance that could have been in her blood.

He said there was no proof she suffered from an eating disorder such as bulimia, which can disrupt the body chemistry with lethal effect. The main piece of evidence cited for an eating disorder — the low levels of potassium in her blood in 1990 — could have been caused by the emergency treatment she received at the time, Thogmartin said.

While she had lost more than 100 pounds since high school, Schiavo never confessed to an eating disorder, she did not take diet pills and no one had witnessed her purging food, the medical examiner said.

He discounted the possibility that she had overdosed on caffeine from drinking large amounts of tea in an effort to keep her weight down.

In addition, the autopsy found no traces of morphine in her system at her death, although she had been given two doses in the days before she died. The Schindlers had contended that morphine might have been used to speed their daughter's death.

In Washington, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said the autopsy did nothing to change President Bush's position that Schiavo's feeding tube should not have been disconnected. He had signed a bill, rushed through by Congress in March, that was a last-ditch effort to restore her feeding tube.

Experts said that the autopsy demonstrates how difficult it is for people to recover from severe brain damage.

"People should understand that sometimes, for known or unknown reasons, individuals sustain massive brain injury that for which healing is not possible," said Dr. Karen Weidenheim, the chief of neuropathology at Montefiore Medical Center in New York. "Everything that could have been done was done for this lady for 15 years, and this case is very tragic."

I hope this will end all the speculation about Michal Shiavo doing something to hurt Terri, and whether or not Terri was brain dead.

Not only do we now know that she was brain dead and was never going to come back, we also know she was blind, which means that SHE WASNT FOLLWOING THAT ****ING BALLOON MORON'S!!!. This tells us that the far right christian idiots were wrong again (even though I bet they wont admit it now) and science was right. Let see if they will do the "Christian" thing and apoligize to Michael. I wont be holding my breath...

I heard yesterday that they didnt believe the report and they "would be looking into it". I bet these people also think the world is flat.