View Full Version : Greatest UK fighter ever?


dustymoo
03-24-2005, 09:10 PM
IMO...

1, Lennox Lewis
2, Ken Buchanan
3, Barry McGuigan
4, John Conteh
5, Lloyd Honeyghan

(maybe Hatton after he does Skippy)

As i said IMO, very much up for debate. It's a tough one!

number6
03-24-2005, 10:08 PM
I'm not sure of where he should be on the
list,but Naz would have ko'd both Buchanan
and McGuigan.

dustymoo
03-24-2005, 10:22 PM
Do you think? Maybe McGuigan vs Naz would've been a war, a classic even. But i think Buchanan would have too much movement and skill for Naz.
Used to go out with a girl from St Hellens. Just along from Suttons brewerey, the estate oposite where Bargain Booze is now!

Yogi
03-24-2005, 10:36 PM
It's between either Jimmy Wilde or Bob Fitzsimmons...Either one would be an excellant pick, as they're the most logical choices for this distinction.

dustymoo
03-24-2005, 10:40 PM
What about Henry Akinwande? Just a joke lol!

Yogi
03-24-2005, 10:53 PM
Here's a few more fighters that would certainly be ranked over most of the fighters you mentioned, and would help fill out a top five/ten list if you're inclined to do one of those;

Ted 'Kid' Lewis, Jackie 'Kid' Berg, Jim Driscoll, and Freddie Welsh.

Yogi
03-24-2005, 10:57 PM
Benny Lynch is another one who deserves a fairly high ranking on that list.

dustymoo
03-24-2005, 10:58 PM
Here's a few more fighters that would certainly be ranked over most of the fighters you mentioned, and would help fill out a top five/ten list if you're inclined to do one of those;

Ted 'Kid' Lewis, Jackie 'Kid' Berg, Jim Driscoll, and Freddie Welsh.


Wow Yogi! Your going back a bit there? While were there though, what about Jack London, Henry the Hammer (if his eyebrows didnt split like tomatoes), or even Randolph Turpin? He used to live near me?

Yogi
03-24-2005, 11:12 PM
Wow Yogi! Your going back a bit there? While were there though, what about Jack London, Henry the Hammer (if his eyebrows didnt split like tomatoes), or even Randolph Turpin? He used to live near me?

Sure, I don't think Turpin would look out of place being ranked in the top 10, but it would probably be towards the bottom, if at all. A victory over who many consider the greatest fighter to ever live has to count for something, doesn't it?

I'm a big fan of Henry Cooper, but I don't consider him to be one of the greatest fighters that the UK has produced. He's one of the better heavyweights, sure. But p4p, I think he comes up way short.

And Jack London? I don't know a whole lot about him, besides the fact that he was the bald headed father of Brian, and had some decent success back in the 30's and 40's.

Here's another couple of guys that are worth mentioning, and possibly make the top ten; Owen Moran and Peter Kane.

Yogi
03-24-2005, 11:15 PM
And yeah, I'm going back a bit for some of those names. It seems the older I get, the more I appreciate those old-timers for some reason. LOL!

dustymoo
03-24-2005, 11:18 PM
Ok! Now i have to dig out my Encyclopedia, i'll get back to you about that in a few days, lol. Wow Yogi, you know loads about British boxing for a Canadian. That wasnt meant as an insult by the way. Respect dude!

Yogi
03-24-2005, 11:27 PM
Ok! Now i have to dig out my Encyclopedia, i'll get back to you about that in a few days, lol. Wow Yogi, you know loads about British boxing for a Canadian. That wasnt meant as an insult by the way. Respect dude!

Something like thirty years is a long time to be following the sport, my friend, and after that long one tends to pick up a few things here and there. Especially when my own country's boxing scene hasn't been especially strong in recent years. Plus, the UK has such a rich history in the sport, it's very hard to ignore what they and their fighters have contributed to boxing all these years. Lots of great fighters and champions have come from your side of the ocean, that's for sure.

Thanks, by the way. :)

dustymoo
03-25-2005, 12:07 AM
I do remember seeing Doug de Witt a few times, and not giving Benn a chance against him. How wrong i was. You know, like i was acting the expert because not many people knew DeWitt over here. I lost 15 on that! Oh well!

Anjew
03-25-2005, 05:16 AM
btw, how's Chris Eubank doing these days? British users, any info?

Martin (Top Knowledge)
03-25-2005, 08:41 AM
I reckon Lennox Lewis is the greatest fighter to come out of the UK!

Martin (Top Knowledge)
03-25-2005, 08:43 AM
Eubank is ok... He seems to be on the tv every now and again doing programmes where camera's follow him around (like a day in the life of Chris Eubank). He's still a bit weird, and still definatly a character! ...LOL!...

number6
03-25-2005, 10:01 PM
Do you think? Maybe McGuigan vs Naz would've been a war, a classic even. But i think Buchanan would have too much movement and skill for Naz.
Used to go out with a girl from St Hellens. Just along from Suttons brewerey, the estate oposite where Bargain Booze is now!

Sorry about the late reply mate.I've not been around
sutton much.people seem to forget that McGuigan was only champ for a year.

NiGe2011
03-26-2005, 03:43 AM
Henry Cooper, hahaha.

L-DJ-B
03-26-2005, 12:29 PM
Jimmy Wilde :)

thekid
03-26-2005, 12:32 PM
After Lewis it wouls have to be Dunn, Hamed never stayed to fight he took the money and ran....dosn't deserve consideration.

paul750
03-26-2005, 03:30 PM
kirkland laing could of been higher up on a list of great fighters, but he wasted his talents

kingmo
03-26-2005, 05:34 PM
I see a few mentions for Jimmy Wilde, he had an excellent record, but most of the fighters he fought (right the way through his career) were novices. Check his record out:

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=009023

I think he might have the record for most fights against complete novices!

I think Naseem Hamed was the most talented British fighter ever, however I dont think he's the greatest British fighter as he never fulfilled his potential.

Ted Kid Lewis was a class fighter, fought in 6 different weight divisions, was Englands youngest boxing champion (British champ at 17), first englishman to win a world boxing title in the US, and had an incredible 301 fights.

barryboy
03-26-2005, 10:17 PM
Ted Kid Lewis' early record is nothing to shout about either, all the fighters he fought in the first 5 years of his career had 0-0-0 & 0-1-0 records, Maybe that's why Lewis & Jack Britton fought 20 times :eek: Benny Lynch's record is also very similar, not denying they're great fighters but this goes against them as top man for me. My vote would go to Lennox Lewis as he fought the best available competition from an early stage & was fighting consistently at world title level for about 11 years on the trot plus he avenged his only 2 defeats so that's enough for me :boxing:

kingmo
03-26-2005, 10:47 PM
Ted Kid Lewis' early record is nothing to shout about either, all the fighters he fought in the first 5 years of his career had 0-0-0 & 0-1-0 records, Maybe that's why Lewis & Jack Britton fought 20 times :eek: Benny Lynch's record is also very similar, not denying they're great fighters but this goes against them as top man for me. My vote would go to Lennox Lewis as he fought the best available competition from an early stage & was fighting consistently at world title level for about 11 years on the trot plus he avenged his only 2 defeats so that's enough for me :boxing:

Ver true, I was also gonna mention that.. but Ted Kid Lewis did eventually step up (even if it was after 150 odd fights!!!), he went on to fight and beat alot of the top american fighters.

If you go simply by achievements its hard to argue against Lennox Lewis, fought just about everyone, beat everyone he ever fought, went out on top.

dodge
03-27-2005, 11:19 AM
Lennox Lewis.

Mikie
03-27-2005, 12:21 PM
What about Nigel Benn?

paul750
03-27-2005, 12:27 PM
What about Nigel Benn?
benn will go down as one of the most exciting and unpridictable fighters, but i don't think he should be up high on the list, remember he lost to Eubank, watson, and colins Twice, and some of those loses where bad ones

Mikie
03-27-2005, 12:46 PM
Very goog point! Thanks for the info playa!

The Troll
03-27-2005, 01:04 PM
Lennox Lewis is the best UK fighter.

korea insincere
03-27-2005, 01:41 PM
Lennox Lewis is Canadian. The best British fighter would probably be Herol Graham I reckon, even though he never won a world title.

paul750
03-27-2005, 02:18 PM
Lennox Lewis is Canadian. The best British fighter would probably be Herol Graham I reckon, even though he never won a world title.
how is lennox canadian when he was born in england and stayed there until he was like 11 or something?

Yogi
03-27-2005, 03:21 PM
Kingmo and Barryboy;

The records of some of the earlier lesser known fighters from the earliest days are very hard to come by, and very rarely are they even close to complete (especially by boxrec). Don't be fooled into thinking that just because boxrec hasn't any recorded fights for some of those guys, that means that they didn't have any previous fights. That's not the case, and some of those guys MAY have had PLENTY of fights at the time. It's just with the lesser known guys, it's VERY hard finding the additional info to add to their records over there. Boxrec does a great job compiling fight record and whatnot. But they are FAR from complete, and especially with the fighters/fights of the early days.

For example, I have an old edition of Ring packed away somewhere (from about ten years ago), and in that magazine it gives a very detailed record of one of the most famous "bums" in history, Joe Grim. And in that Ring magazine they credit Grim with having close to or even over 300 recorded career fights. Yet boxrec has how many of Grim? Less than a hundred, last time I looked.

It's a tough ordeal trying to put together fight records of even the hall of famers from that era (and they keep finding new fights every single day for alot of them), so imagine how difficult it'd be trying to put together records for fighters who never recieved much (if any) newspaper coverage. And that's how they do it over there, with the newspares and such. They like to confirm that a bout took place by actually having documented proof of the fight, and rightfully so.

Something to think about next time you claim such-and-such didn't have that many or even any fights.

Southpaw16
03-27-2005, 07:06 PM
He was born in England and stayed until age 11, but he became a boxer while he was in Canada and represented Canada in the olympics. You could really say he is both British and Canadian, he does have duel citizenship.

barryboy
03-27-2005, 07:53 PM
Kingmo and Barryboy;

I have an old edition of Ring packed away somewhere (from about ten years ago), and in that magazine it gives a very detailed record of one of the most famous "bums" in history, Joe Grim. And in that Ring magazine they credit Grim with having close to or even over 300 recorded career fights. Yet boxrec has how many of Grim? Less than a hundred, last time I looked.
Something to think about next time you claim such-and-such didn't have that many or even any fights.

:D I remember having the issue you're talking about, the guy who was impossible to stop right? think it was from between 90-92. The thing was the guys in the days of Ted Kid Lewis, Benny Lynch etc. especially in Britain fought in the boxing booths so it's most likely a lot of the guys had fights in the booths & the bouts weren't recorded but having read the Benny Lynch book which talks about the booths, they were all tough men but a lot of them had like today's sparring partner mentality of putting on a good show but not enough to beat the favourite if you know what I mean so it's very debatable whether the early oppositon of these guys was up to much we just don't know so it's all guess work really.

Palma
03-27-2005, 08:16 PM
Michael " Silk" Olajide, Jr

Born in Liverpool, England

One of the great english born fighters in my book!

kingmo
03-28-2005, 01:44 PM
Kingmo and Barryboy;

The records of some of the earlier lesser known fighters from the earliest days are very hard to come by, and very rarely are they even close to complete (especially by boxrec). Don't be fooled into thinking that just because boxrec hasn't any recorded fights for some of those guys, that means that they didn't have any previous fights. That's not the case, and some of those guys MAY have had PLENTY of fights at the time. It's just with the lesser known guys, it's VERY hard finding the additional info to add to their records over there. Boxrec does a great job compiling fight record and whatnot. But they are FAR from complete, and especially with the fighters/fights of the early days.

For example, I have an old edition of Ring packed away somewhere (from about ten years ago), and in that magazine it gives a very detailed record of one of the most famous "bums" in history, Joe Grim. And in that Ring magazine they credit Grim with having close to or even over 300 recorded career fights. Yet boxrec has how many of Grim? Less than a hundred, last time I looked.

It's a tough ordeal trying to put together fight records of even the hall of famers from that era (and they keep finding new fights every single day for alot of them), so imagine how difficult it'd be trying to put together records for fighters who never recieved much (if any) newspaper coverage. And that's how they do it over there, with the newspares and such. They like to confirm that a bout took place by actually having documented proof of the fight, and rightfully so.

Something to think about next time you claim such-and-such didn't have that many or even any fights.

Yeah good point.. but my point still remains the same, Jimmy Wilde fought a hell of a lot of tomato cans.. even if there records aren't complete, and they weren't total novices... they obviously weren't top class fighters as if they were 1) there would be more accurate records for them. 2) the fights (with Wilde) would be well documented as big fights in Wildes career.

OliverNo1
03-28-2005, 02:10 PM
RE Nigel Benn


Benn often gets mentioned as having a big heart - but towards the end he "twisted his ankle" then retired on his stool when in no visible distress in consecutive fights against Steve Collins, these are not the actions of a fighter with a big heart. In fairness to him he had shown a lot of heart up until then in his career.

Benn exciting yes, but no more than that.

J !
03-29-2005, 08:33 AM
RE Nigel Benn


Benn often gets mentioned as having a big heart - but towards the end he "twisted his ankle" then retired on his stool when in no visible distress in consecutive fights against Steve Collins, these are not the actions of a fighter with a big heart. In fairness to him he had shown a lot of heart up until then in his career.

Benn exciting yes, but no more than that.


PUUURLEASE!
Nigel Benn had one of the biggest hearts EVER. No visible distress thats vcos of the mess he left Mclellan in you silly chap!
He wasnt mentally in it anymore, prior to that he was a warrior, he just lost his love for the game when he injured Gerald. Understandable really do not question Nigel Benns heart, its the one thing that got him through his fights, oh yeah and by the way he is the ONLY British Super/middle weight who took on the overseas stars, Iran Barkley a superstar at the time a man who ko'd tommy hearns in 3 then decisioned him in a rematch and benn ko'd him in one. :eek:
Then you have Gman who at the time was P4P rated one above Roy Jones at the time, watch that fight and tell me nige Benn has no heart. Laughable.

Benn has more claim to being in a top ten british all time list simply cos he went out and fought the best in the World something Eubank and Collins bottled it from doing.
So if you questions anyones heart is should be those two.

Top ten:
Lennox Lewis
Ted Kid Lewis
Jimmy Wilde
Bob Fitzimmons
Ken Buchanon
Jack Kid Berg
Randy Turpin
Benny Lynch
Jim Driscoll
Nigel Benn


and for good measure 11-20
John Conteh
Jem Mace
Naseem Hamed
Chris Eubank
Lloyd Honeygun
Owen Moran
Barry Mcguigan
Dave Charnley
Alan Minter
Jim Watt.

Please dont queston nigels benns heart again, I wont be so polite next time. :boxing: :D


footnote :
LENNOX LEWIS IS NOT ****ING CANADIAN.
HE WAS BORN IN HORNSEY WITHIN THE SOUND OF BOW BELLES WHICH MAKES HIM MORE OF A ****NEY THAN THE QUEEN.



He was taken to Canada when his father left his mother in dire straights and Lennnox kept getting in trouble with at School, so his mother took 12 yr old lennox to start a new life. He reutnred in his early 20's so he stayed in canadz for ten years max, how does that him canadian?

He has jamaican parents and was born in London. He just lived in Canada, that doesnt make him canadian. :boxing: