This is From 1980........

''While Duran may have been outstanding in his time, there is no comparison with the type of opposition he faced as compared to the others. He had much fewer top-class fighters to box, ''My choices of all time Lightweights, not neccessarilly in order:

Leonard-''Great boxer, great puncher. His record speaks for itself. He was not a managed fighter, but fought anyoine and anywere, and as many as a dozen times. Almost invariably the winner. He would be to smart and punch to hard for Duran''.

Canzoneri-''Great boxer, good puncher, great record, with the heart of a lion'' He could do it all and had to since his manager fed him the toughest in their own hometowns. Canzoneri by decision''

Amstrong-''The one and only. At his best seemingly unbeatable. Amstrong threw too many punchers and applied too much pressure, with the heart of a lion, Amstrong the winner''.

Ross-''A great boxer, not too much of a puncher and game. A toss up with Duran''

Jimmy McLarnin ''Lots of heart, great puncher and boxer. As a 16 year old, he beat Fidel LeBarba and the best in that flyweight division and all the divsions he boxed in. I like McLarnin against Duran''

Gans ''I never saw him, but on his record in those days ranks with Leonard and the best. ''Must pick him over Duran''

Kid Lavigne-''Altough I never saw him. I have discussed him and Gans with sevarel people who did, and had keen judgment I respected. I must puck him over Duran''.

''Of the ones named, only Ross and McLarnin were managed fighters, the others were thrown in with the wolves and survived. They missed no one in their class and often fought welters and some times middles and light heavies''

Cus D'Amato

This is From 1980........

''While Duran may have been outstanding in his time, there is no comparison with the type of opposition he faced as compared to the others. He had much fewer top-class fighters to box, ''My choices of all time Lightweights, not neccessarilly in order:

Leonard-Great boxer, great puncher. His record speaks for itself. He was not a managed fighter, but fought anyoine and anywere, and as many as a dozen times. Almost invariably the winner. He would be to smart and punch to hard for Duran.

Canzoneri-''Great boxer, good puncher, great record, with the heart of a lion'' He could do it all and had to since his manager fed him the toughest in their own hometowns. Canzoneri by decision''

Amstrong-''The only and only. At his best seemingly unbeatable. Amstrong threw too many punchers and applied too much pressure, with the heart of a lion, Amstrong the winner''.

Ross-''A great boxer, not too much of a puncher and game. A toss up with Duran''

Jimmy McLarnin ''Lots of heart, great puncher and boxer. As a 16 year old, he beat Fidel LeBarba and the best in that flyweight division and all the divsions he boxed in. I like McLarnin against Duran''

Gans ''I never saw him, but on his record in those days ranks with Leonard and the best. ''Must pick him over Duran''

Kid Lavigne-''Altough I never saw him. I have discussed him and Gans with sevarel people who did, and had keen judgment I respected. I must puck him over Duran''.

''Of the ones named, only Ross and McLarnin were managed fighters, the others were thrown in with the wolves and survived. They missed no one in their class and often fought welters and some times middles and light heavies''

Cus D'Amato

so basically he just picks all his old faves over Duran.

For the record I pick Duran over just about all of them.

He knew his stuff, and you'd have to give some of those fighters a chance.. D'Amato had watched some of them live, so you have to respect his opinions. I'd bet against him with regard to Lavigne & Ross though.
Gans, Armstrong, Leonard, Canzoneri, McLarnin were all terrific fighters, and thought nothing of fighting 8 -12 times in 1 year.. I'd suggest a young Duran would have relished that schedule.. At 14 he was KTFO of American GI's for a few bucks a go..

I've never done a LW list, but I'm sure Duran would be in the top 3..

He knew his stuff, and you'd have to give some of those fighters a chance.. D'Amato had watched some of them live, so you have to respect his opinions. I'd bet against him with regard to Lavigne & Ross though.
Gans, Armstrong, Leonard, Canzoneri, McLarnin were all terrific fighters, and thought nothing of fighting 8 -12 times in 1 year.. I'd suggest a young Duran would have relished that schedule.. At 14 he was KTFO of American GI's for a few bucks a go..

I've never done a LW list, but I'm sure Duran would be in the top 3..


I'd give armstrong a chance, but i know for Sure Canzoneri and Leonard would lose to him.

Great post

I'd give armstrong a chance, but i know for Sure Canzoneri and Leonard would lose to him.

Canzoneri to me looks quite impressive on film and I haven't seen nearly all of him. There's hardly any film of Benny Leonard so it's difficult to say.

I don't think it should only go down to who beats who, one must consider what Leonard and Canzoneri were able to do in their own time compared to Duran.

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I'd still rate Duran with the best of them though. All this shows is that great fighters rarely get the credit they deserve in their own time. I do think that Duran being the greatest lightweight of all time isn't a given, you could argue it for a lot of people who arguably have better records than Duran at the weight.

Think Gans and Leonard have got a chance. Armstrong p4p but not so much at LW, I think Duran would beat the rest.

Think Gans and Leonard have got a chance. Armstrong p4p but not so much at LW, I think Duran would beat the rest.

I think 135 was Armstrong's best weight.

I think 135 was Armstrong's best weight.
I like him at welter personally but you're not alone in that view for sure.
TS should throw in Ambers too then as he matched Armstrong and Canzoneri pretty well in their fights.

I like him at welter personally but you're not alone in that view for sure.
TS should throw in Ambers too then as he matched Armstrong and Canzoneri pretty well in their fights.

He weighed 135 for most of his welterweight fights, including the fight against Barney Ross. :boxing:

He weighed 135 for most of his welterweight fights, including the fight against Barney Ross. :boxing:
Logic wont deter me, Duran beats Armstrong at LW Armstrong beats Duran at welter :)

Logic wont deter me, Duran beats Armstrong at LW Armstrong beats Duran at welter :)

WW Duran would outweigh WW Armstrong by 10+ pounds. :)

Armstrong did settle into a 140 lber after the disputed loss to Lou Ambers. Most thought he was showing signs of slipping by the time that fight happened.

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WW Duran would outweigh WW Armstrong by 10+ pounds. :)

Armstrong did settle into a 140 lber after the disputed loss to Lou Ambers. Most thought he was showing signs of slipping by the time that fight happened.

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Not seen either in years but as I recall both the Ambers fights were close not 100% sure that Ambers didn't have the best in the one he lost.

WW Duran would outweigh WW Armstrong by 10+ pounds. :)



But with Duran its going to be 10lbs of junk food :)

Not seen either in years but as I recall both the Ambers fights were close not 100% sure that Ambers didn't have the best in the one he lost.

I thought Armstrong won the second Ambers fight pretty clearly but he lost so many rounds due to "low blows" that he could not win the decision. I didn't see the low blows in the film that I have of the fight, which includes all the rounds.

I'd say he looked a bit more sloppy there than in the Barney Ross fight but credit should be given to Ambers for fighting a determined battle. Ambers was great at fighting off the ropes.

I'd give armstrong a chance, but i know for Sure Canzoneri and Leonard would lose to him.
Canzoneri was electric! Many would say he's by far the greatest Italian/American fighter of them all.. His resume could be considered superior to that of Rocky Marciano, without kidding..

Canzoneri was electric! Many would say he's by far the greatest Italian/American fighter of them all.. His resume could be considered superior to that of Rocky Marciano, without kidding..

I'd correct that and say that his resume should be considered superior to that of Rocky Marciano. He shouldn't miss anyone's top 30 p4p, or top 50 at the very least.