View Full Version : How would these fighters do against Ali?


Infern0
10-16-2009, 03:11 AM
Hi guys please give me some insight as to how you think the following would do against Ali, prime for prime.

At least one of them must be able to beat him!


1. Vitali Klitschko

2. Wladamir Klitschko

3. Joe Louis

4. Lennox Lewis

5. Mike Tyson

6. Evander Holyfield

7. Riddick Bowe

RightCross94
10-16-2009, 03:34 AM
Ali on his very best day beats all of them IMO. However I can see Evander, Bowe and Lennox beating him at other times

mickey malone
10-16-2009, 05:38 AM
Ali on his very best day beats all of them IMO. However I can see Evander, Bowe and Lennox beating him at other times
Agreed, but I see Tyson, Louis & Holyfield giving him the most trouble..
Just some thoughts and opinions, but maybe.....

Tyson would be the faster Frazier
Louis would be the harder punching Cooper
And Holyfield would be a more intense version of Norton

Just a style 4 style thing, but I think he'd see off the bigger guys..
Regarding the Klits & Lewis, I don't think it would take long for Ali to telegraph their punches..
Bowe, on the other hand, would have a fast enough jab to contol Ali for some of the early rounds, but would tire as the chase went on..

sonnyboyx2
10-16-2009, 05:47 AM
Hi guys please give me some insight as to how you think the following would do against Ali, prime for prime.

At least one of them must be able to beat him!


1. Vitali Klitschko

2. Wladamir Klitschko

3. Joe Louis

4. Lennox Lewis

5. Mike Tyson

6. Evander Holyfield

7. Riddick Bowe

Ali vs Wlad --- Ali KO8
Ali vs Vitali --- Ali KO11
Ali vs Louis --- Ali PTS15
Ali vs Lewis --- Ali KO5
Ali vs Tyson --- Ali PTS15
Ali vs Holyfield -- Ali PTS15
Ali vs Bowe --- Ali PTS15

all this talk about how "on his best night this or on his best night that" its rubbish.. Muhammad Ali was a Dancing Master with lightening fast hands who would find all the above fights quite easy compaired to fighting Frazier, Bonavena, Norton or Liston

sonnyboyx2
10-16-2009, 05:56 AM
Agreed, but I see Tyson, Louis & Holyfield giving him the most trouble..
Just some thoughts and opinions, but maybe.....

Tyson would be the faster Frazier
Louis would be the harder punching Cooper
And Holyfield would be a more intense version of Norton

Just a style 4 style thing, but I think he'd see off the bigger guys..
Regarding the Klits & Lewis, I don't think it would take long for Ali to telegraph their punches..
Bowe, on the other hand, would have a fast enough jab to contol Ali for some of the early rounds, but would tire as the chase went on..

Tyson was not a murderous body puncher like Frazier, Tyson did not "Bob-&-Weave" like Frazier.

Henry`s Hammer caught Clay square-on and floored him but he was up at the count of 3.. No man ever knocked out Muhammad Ali.

Holyfield never had a "Crab-Like style" Like Norton nor did he have a jab, big right hand attack like Norton.

The Klits and Lewis was similar in height to Ernie Terrell who Ali played with and punished for 15rds, Blue Lewis, Mac Foster & Joe Bugner all measured up to The Klits & Lewis .. yet Ali toyed with them.

Bowe had nothing in his arsenal that would bother Muhammad Ali.... Ali would dance & hurt Bowe

JAB5239
10-16-2009, 06:00 AM
Ali vs Wlad --- Ali KO8
Ali vs Vitali --- Ali KO11
Ali vs Louis --- Ali PTS15
Ali vs Lewis --- Ali KO5
Ali vs Tyson --- Ali PTS15
Ali vs Holyfield -- Ali PTS15
Ali vs Bowe --- Ali PTS15

all this talk about how "on his best night this or on his best night that" its rubbish.. Muhammad Ali was a Dancing Master with lightening fast hands who would find all the above fights quite easy compaired to fighting Frazier, Bonavena, Norton or Liston

At their best, Bowe was a bigger version of Norton who could also fight on the inside. Tyson was faster and hit harder than Frazier, though I think he would fade against Ali. And Louis was greater than anyone Ali fought. That fight could go either way depending on who was more focused that night.

bojangles1987
10-16-2009, 06:16 AM
Hi guys please give me some insight as to how you think the following would do against Ali, prime for prime.

At least one of them must be able to beat him!


1. Vitali Klitschko

2. Wladamir Klitschko

3. Joe Louis

4. Lennox Lewis

5. Mike Tyson

6. Evander Holyfield

7. Riddick Bowe

I personally think Ali beats them all, Ali at his best beats any heavyweight all time.

He wins relatively easy decisions against Wlad, Tyson, and Bowe.

He wins decisions in good fights against Lewis, Vitali, and Holyfield.

He KTFO of Joe Louis.

mickey malone
10-16-2009, 06:20 AM
Tyson was not a murderous body puncher like Frazier, Tyson did not "Bob-&-Weave" like Frazier.

Henry`s Hammer caught Clay square-on and floored him but he was up at the count of 3.. No man ever knocked out Muhammad Ali.

Holyfield never had a "Crab-Like style" Like Norton nor did he have a jab, big right hand attack like Norton.

The Klits and Lewis was similar in height to Ernie Terrell who Ali played with and punished for 15rds, Blue Lewis, Mac Foster & Joe Bugner all measured up to The Klits & Lewis .. yet Ali toyed with them.

Bowe had nothing in his arsenal that would bother Muhammad Ali.... Ali would dance & hurt Bowe
Tyson hit harder/faster than Frazier.. And, Oh yes, he did bob and weave!... You must be thinking of his 'after prison' career..

Holyfield had a big two handed attack, no crab, he didn't need it.. In general, a slightly tougher proposition than Norton..

If Henry's hammer caught him, that suggests Joe Louis's hammer may have caught him to..
Cooper is quoted as saying, that he idolized Louis and tried to copy him..
However, I doubt Louis would have been cut to shreds in the very next round..
I'd fancy Louis to finish the job..

Other than that, we pretty much agree..

Mersey
10-16-2009, 06:22 AM
Hi guys please give me some insight as to how you think the following would do against Ali, prime for prime.

At least one of them must be able to beat him!


1. Vitali Klitschko

2. Wladamir Klitschko

3. Joe Louis

4. Lennox Lewis

5. Mike Tyson

6. Evander Holyfield

7. Riddick Bowe

1. Vitali Klitschko - Ali wide UD

2. Wladamir Klitschko - Ali UD

3. Joe Louis - Ali UD

4. Lennox Lewis - Ali UD

5. Mike Tyson - Ali UD or late stoppage

6. Evander Holyfield - Ali UD

7. Riddick Bowe - Ali UD

All in all, I think any of these fighters have a great chance of beating Ali. Out of 10 fights, IMO all of these fighters beat Ali at least a few times. But Ali would get the better of them in the majority of the fights.

RockyB
10-16-2009, 06:37 AM
i think both Tyson and Holyfield has a good chance. they both put on a very good preasure and are probably a little bit more accurate than Frazier

Silencers
10-16-2009, 06:53 AM
I think Ali would've beaten them all but I give Lewis and Louis the best chances to beat him.

sonnyboyx2
10-16-2009, 07:00 AM
I think Ali would've beaten them all but I give Lewis and Louis the best chances to beat him.

who did Lewis ever beat to warrant him the best chance of beating Muhammad Ali?

blacklodge
10-16-2009, 07:05 AM
Hi guys please give me some insight as to how you think the following would do against Ali, prime for prime.

At least one of them must be able to beat him!


1. Vitali Klitschko

2. Wladamir Klitschko

3. Joe Louis

4. Lennox Lewis

5. Mike Tyson

6. Evander Holyfield

7. Riddick Bowe

Watching Corrie Sanders' straight punches buzz the Klitschkos says all I need to know about them (I realize Sanders was a southpaw, but still). Their lackluster workrate would also be a downfall. A fighter had to put forth serious effort to get to Ali. Bear in mind that Ali was 6'3" and had an 82" reach, and fought tall. Mid rounds TKOs.
That same height and straight punches would dismiss Joe Louis early.
Lewis would be a tougher fight. But again it comes down to workrate. Ali late stoppage.
Prime Tyson would give him the biggest problems, but Tyson would take some punches, which he didn't like, and when Tyson didn't dispatch his opponent quickly he would settle into a mauling comfort zone. Ali would jab him senseless. UD.
Bowe's strengths were on the inside, where he wouldn't get, and his overrated jab would be neutralized by Ali's. UD.

Ali in '67 is not going to be beaten by anyone, I think. You'd have to get the mid-70s Ali, who depending on preparation could lose to any of them. It took an awkward, jerky fighter like Norton or Frazier who could smother to beat Ali, and these guys aren't it.

Mersey
10-16-2009, 07:06 AM
who did Lewis ever beat to warrant him the best chance of beating Muhammad Ali?

Everyone that had the balls to fight him.

Benncollinsaad
10-16-2009, 07:22 AM
Ali would have no chance against Bowe or the Klitschkos imo. He could beat all the others. Louis would give him most problems out of them, but on his best night Ali could outwork him. Lewis would get owned so bad he'd be crying after the match!:rolleyes:

Holyfield could beat Ali, but its the other way around too. Could go either way.

Silencers
10-16-2009, 07:25 AM
who did Lewis ever beat to warrant him the best chance of beating Muhammad Ali?

The best heavyweights of his time.

Mersey
10-16-2009, 07:27 AM
Ali would have no chance against Bowe or the Klitschkos imo. He could beat all the others. Louis would give him most problems out of them, but on his best night Ali could outwork him. Lewis would get owned so bad he'd be crying after the match!:rolleyes:

Holyfield could beat Ali, but its the other way around too. Could go either way.

:rofl:

What does Wlad Klitschko do better than Lewis?

Why would Ali not stand a chance against Wlad Klitschko but he'd make Lewis cry?

Benncollinsaad
10-16-2009, 07:41 AM
:rofl:

What does Wlad Klitschko do better than Lewis?

Why would Ali not stand a chance against Wlad Klitschko but he'd make Lewis cry?

Stfu you limey *****! Everybody knows Lewis's skills were subpar to the greatest boxers. Go and jerk off to Lewis tapes and leave us adults to talk seriously.

Mersey
10-16-2009, 07:46 AM
Stfu you limey *****! Everybody knows Lewis's skills were subpar to the greatest boxers. Go and jerk off to Lewis tapes and leave us adults to talk seriously.

Adults? :rofl:

Adults don't get all offended because somebody asks them a question. And say things like "go jerk off to Lewis tapes" :bottle:

Whether you like it or not, Lewis was supperior to both Klitschko's.

What's up with you today? You got sand in your vagina?

Benncollinsaad
10-16-2009, 07:51 AM
Adults? :rofl:

Adults don't get all offended because somebody asks them a question. And say things like "go jerk off to Lewis tapes" :bottle:

Whether you like it or not, Lewis was supperior to both Klitschko's.

What's up with you today? You got sand in your vagina?

Yeah and so was Danny Williams, thats why he got splattered across the floor against Vitali!:rofl: You never cease to amaze me and entertain me with your stupidity! And All-British bias. Go eat your fish and chips and stay away from boxing. You'll do many of us a favor.

Benny Leonard
10-16-2009, 07:54 AM
Just to note, Pre-exile Ali.

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Mersey
10-16-2009, 07:54 AM
Yeah and so was Danny Williams, thats why he got splattered across the floor against Vitali!:rofl: You never cease to amaze me and entertain me with your stupidity! And All-British bias. Go eat your fish and chips and stay away from boxing. You'll do many of us a favor.

Who's talking about Danny Williams?

What did I say that was stupid?

Where are you from?

And do you want a tampon?

Benncollinsaad
10-16-2009, 08:01 AM
Who's talking about Danny Williams?

What did I say that was stupid?

Where are you from?

And do you want a tampon?

Lol, I like this guy!:lol1: Ok kid, sorry I upset you. Friends?

Mersey
10-16-2009, 08:02 AM
Lol, I like this guy!:lol1: Ok kid, sorry I upset you. Friends?

:lol1:

Where are you from?

Benncollinsaad
10-16-2009, 08:05 AM
:lol1:

Where are you from?

Why are you so eager to know?Norway.

Mersey
10-16-2009, 08:09 AM
Why are you so eager to know?Norway.

Just wanted to see why you love the Klitschko's so much.

Benncollinsaad
10-16-2009, 08:11 AM
Just wanted to see why you love the Klitschko's so much.

Because they rule. Satisfied?:rolleyes: They are amazing both as boxers and persons. I wish you and others could see and realize that.

sonnyboyx2
10-16-2009, 08:11 AM
Just to note, Pre-exile Ali.

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Fools will discredit Ali`s opponents here, saying The Klits & Lewis was bigger etc etc... which is total Rubbish.. Cleveland Williams was a Monster` who was always in incredible shape and was one of the hardest punchers who ever lived, Cleve knocked out over 50 men, he hit one guy so hard he broke the mans back and he had to go around on crutches for the rest of his life..Brian London was a rugged, tough fighter who would have been to much for the likes of Arreola, Morrison, Tua, Botha, Rahman or Ruiz.. Zora Folley was a brilliant boxer who Muhammad Ali said was 2nd only to himself in skills

Mersey
10-16-2009, 08:14 AM
Because they rule. Satisfied?:rolleyes: They are amazing both as boxers and persons. I wish you and others could see and realize that.

Yes they are good, but to say they are the only people who could have beaten Ali is rediculous.

I'd just like to know, what makes Wlad Klitschko one of the GOATs, if you believe Lennox Lewis isn't?

Benncollinsaad
10-16-2009, 08:15 AM
Yes they are good, but to say they are the only people who could have beaten Ali is rediculous.

I'd just like to know, what makes Wlad Klitschko one of the GOATs, if you believe Lennox Lewis isn't?

I'm tired of explaining it. I suggest you take a look at his earlier fights, before the Sanders fight. Then maybe you'll begin to see it more clearly.

Mersey
10-16-2009, 08:21 AM
I'm tired of explaining it. I suggest you take a look at his earlier fights, before the Sanders fight. Then maybe you'll begin to see it more clearly.

You mean when he was fighting great fighters such as... Monte Barrett, Ray Mercer and Ross Purity...

Any good fighter can look great against average fighters.

He looked good then yes, but he wasn't facing the best fighters was he?

He is a great fighter, by far the greatest in his era. He's still done nothing to show me he belongs with Ali, Tyson, Frazier, Lewis etc...

Benncollinsaad
10-16-2009, 08:22 AM
You mean when he was fighting great fighters such as... Monte Barrett, Ray Mercer and Ross Purity...

Any good fighter can look great against average fighters.

He looked good then yes, but he wasn't facing the best fighters was he?

He is a great fighter, by far the greatest in his era. He's still done nothing to show me he belongs with Ali, Tyson, Frazier, Lewis etc...

When he was fighting the dangerous punchers like Derrick Jefferson, Charles Shufford, Paea Wolfgramm and splitting their skulls!:boxing:

Benny Leonard
10-16-2009, 08:24 AM
Fools will discredit Ali`s opponents here, saying The Klits & Lewis was bigger etc etc... which is total Rubbish.. Cleveland Williams was a Monster` who was always in incredible shape and was one of the hardest punchers who ever lived, Cleve knocked out over 50 men, he hit one guy so hard he broke the mans back and he had to go around on crutches for the rest of his life..Brian London was a rugged, tough fighter who would have been to much for the likes of Arreola, Morrison, Tua, Botha, Rahman or Ruiz.. Zora Folley was a brilliant boxer who Muhammad Ali said was 2nd only to himself in skills

Actually, I'm trying to make more of a point with Ali's physical display. Who cares who was in front of him...just look at how he moves and how he fights and look at his physical frame at this point compared to when he first got on the scene and most of all...how he looked after the long layoff. Here, he still has the ability of the LH Clay that won Gold all while having a more matured body. When he came back, that was lost and he had to adapt to what he was at that point in time.

Mersey
10-16-2009, 08:28 AM
When he was fighting the dangerous punchers like Derrick Jefferson, Charles Shufford, Paea Wolfgramm and splitting their skulls!:boxing:

Ok, if you think the difference is skill between Wlad and Lewis is so dramatic... Name some people on Wlad or Vitali's resume that would beat Lewis.

Benncollinsaad
10-16-2009, 08:29 AM
Ok, if you think the difference is skill between Wlad and Lewis is so dramatic... Name some people on Wlad or Vitali's resume that would beat Lewis.

Didn't you hear me?! I'm tired of this ****! I already did it with your idiotic countryman britishfan and he pulled my nerves out.

Mersey
10-16-2009, 08:31 AM
Didn't you hear me?! I'm tired of this ****! I already did it with your idiotic countryman britishfan and he pulled my nerves out.

I didn't hear nothing. We don't have speakers in work. Did you say something?

Is there anybody on their resume who would beat Lewis? Just name 1 or 2 c'mon...

Benncollinsaad
10-16-2009, 08:32 AM
I didn't hear nothing. We don't have speakers in work. Did you say something?

Is there anybody on their resume who would beat Lewis? Just name 1 or 2 c'mon...

Well, Mercer did beat Lewis in my opinion.

Mersey
10-16-2009, 08:33 AM
Well, Mercer did beat Lewis in my opinion.

Ok, that's your opinion. Some people would agree with that.

Now, would the 2002 version of Mercer beat Lewis?

Benncollinsaad
10-16-2009, 08:35 AM
Ok, that's your opinion. Some people would agree with that.

Now, would the 2002 version of Mercer beat Lewis?

I don't know and I don't care. Couldn't care less about Lewis! Now leave me da fuq alone!

Mersey
10-16-2009, 08:39 AM
I don't know and I don't care. Couldn't care less about Lewis! Now leave me da fuq alone!

Couldn't care less about Lewis, that's why you don't realise he's superior compared to the Klitschko's.

Lewis could go through both of their resumes undefeated.

Benncollinsaad
10-16-2009, 08:45 AM
Couldn't care less about Lewis, that's why you don't realise he's superior compared to the Klitschko's.

Lewis could go through both of their resumes undefeated.

Fine, if that makes you happy. Now leave me the fuq alone!:nonono: Brits...

Mersey
10-16-2009, 08:50 AM
Fine, if that makes you happy. Now leave me the fuq alone!:nonono: Brits...

Brits, and most boxing fans that aren't die hard fans of the Klitschko's.

Benncollinsaad
10-16-2009, 08:57 AM
Brits, and most boxing fans that aren't die hard fans of the Klitschko's.

Isn't Hollyoaks starting? You better run!:rolleyes:

Mersey
10-16-2009, 08:59 AM
Isn't Hollyoaks starting? You better run!:rolleyes:

Aren't one of the Norwegian world champions fighting this weekend? Oh... wait...

Benncollinsaad
10-16-2009, 09:32 AM
Aren't one of the Norwegian world champions fighting this weekend? Oh... wait...

We got a lady champion.;)

Infern0
10-16-2009, 04:15 PM
Ali vs Wlad --- Ali KO8
Ali vs Vitali --- Ali KO11
Ali vs Louis --- Ali PTS15
Ali vs Lewis --- Ali KO5
Ali vs Tyson --- Ali PTS15
Ali vs Holyfield -- Ali PTS15
Ali vs Bowe --- Ali PTS15

all this talk about how "on his best night this or on his best night that" its rubbish.. Muhammad Ali was a Dancing Master with lightening fast hands who would find all the above fights quite easy compaired to fighting Frazier, Bonavena, Norton or Liston

Funny how he ko's all the europeans but none of the americans even though tyson has never lost on points, only by ko 5 times

Princemanspopa
10-16-2009, 04:45 PM
What's up with you today? You got sand in your vagina?

Nothing is wrong with him today,he's like that everyday,ever since he was exposed as a Boxrec ranger,he's been a whiny,insecure little puss who can't offer a logical argument to any fighterer or fight he's never seen,as browsing boxrec can only get you so far.

them_apples
10-16-2009, 04:52 PM
Tyson was not a murderous body puncher like Frazier, Tyson did not "Bob-&-Weave" like Frazier.

Henry`s Hammer caught Clay square-on and floored him but he was up at the count of 3.. No man ever knocked out Muhammad Ali.

Holyfield never had a "Crab-Like style" Like Norton nor did he have a jab, big right hand attack like Norton.

The Klits and Lewis was similar in height to Ernie Terrell who Ali played with and punished for 15rds, Blue Lewis, Mac Foster & Joe Bugner all measured up to The Klits & Lewis .. yet Ali toyed with them.

Bowe had nothing in his arsenal that would bother Muhammad Ali.... Ali would dance & hurt Bowe

Tyson didn't bob and weave like Frazier but he was still harder to hit.

Frazier was just relentless but he was also only a natural 204 lder.

Ali would lose the first 5 rounds to mike but start taking over in the late round for a Ud or possible late round KO. Prime Ali. Hard to say what even the Ali that fought Frazier would do.

I see Ali wooping all the others, Holyfield giving him a bit of trouble on the way.

I'm not sure how the Lewis fight would go, in his prime Ali would probably Ud him or even KO him.

them_apples
10-16-2009, 04:54 PM
Funny how he ko's all the europeans but none of the americans even though tyson has never lost on points, only by ko 5 times

in his prime he didn't even lose at all though, so that doesn't really matter. I'd say Ali can KO him though in the latter rounds, esp in a 15 round fight perhaps.

Ziggy Stardust
10-16-2009, 08:45 PM
Funny how he ko's all the europeans but none of the americans even though tyson has never lost on points, only by ko 5 times

Isn't that a European Heavyweight's natural place in the universe: Horizontal? :D

Poet

blacklodge
10-16-2009, 09:09 PM
Isn't that a European Heavyweight's natural place in the universe: Horizontal? :D

Poet

I thought their natural place was just quitting.

sonnyboyx2
10-17-2009, 01:34 AM
Actually, I'm trying to make more of a point with Ali's physical display. Who cares who was in front of him...just look at how he moves and how he fights and look at his physical frame at this point compared to when he first got on the scene and most of all...how he looked after the long layoff. Here, he still has the ability of the LH Clay that won Gold all while having a more matured body. When he came back, that was lost and he had to adapt to what he was at that point in time.

yes true enough..

T3dBundy
10-17-2009, 02:36 AM
ali who beat sonny liston within 6 rounds would make anyone cry on that list.
prime tyson is the only one who could beat him maybe.