View Full Version : Jones or Hopkins - Who ranks higher?


Stoppage
10-13-2009, 05:21 PM
I thought it would be interesting since their fight is supposed to happen next year and we can see, so far, who is considered a greater fighter on an all-time great level.

Jones will be remembered more for the 1990s and Hopkins for the 2000s.

So it's pretty simple.

Who ranks higher as an all-time great and why?

THE REED™
10-13-2009, 05:23 PM
Roy....... because.............

No, Bernard because..................

No I think its Roy cuz blah blah blah

THats bull**** its definitely Bernard because so and so and so

Besides the point Roy has already done this and that and this

yeah but Bernard was this this and this and has defended it this many times

but roy went thru this many weight classes and went from here to there

but bernard beat a, b, c, d, e

but roy beat a, b, c, d, e

its definitely bernard

definitely roy

THE REED™
10-13-2009, 05:26 PM
I disagree, Roy is by far better the choice... MW - HW - back down to LHW.. p4p fighter of the 90's, unified 7 LHW titles, Bernard, Toney, Lccalum, Hill, Griffin, Tarver

THE REED™
10-13-2009, 05:26 PM
Actually I disagree... its Bernard, 20 mw TITLE DEFENSES, jumped 2 weight classes beat Tarver, Winky, Pavlik, controversial loss to Joe, and Roy got spanked by Joe... its Bernard

THE REED™
10-13-2009, 05:27 PM
Bernard fought all smaller fighters... Roy moved UP in weight to beat all his main opponents

THE REED™
10-13-2009, 05:27 PM
Yeah but Roy got KTFO, and Bernards never even been stunned, and is still in the P4P rankings at 45

THE REED™
10-13-2009, 05:28 PM
What Bernard has accomplished in his 30's and 40's. Roy already accomplished in his 20's and early 30's

THE REED™
10-13-2009, 05:28 PM
Yeah well Bernard never accomplished being KTFO like Roy did

THE REED™
10-13-2009, 05:29 PM
Your a moron, anyone who thinks Bernard is better than Roy is a moron, plain and simple.

THE REED™
10-13-2009, 05:29 PM
:rofl: :rofl: Typical fan boy stanism from the ROY fans, Bernard simply ranks higher get over it

THE REED™
10-13-2009, 05:30 PM
Keep fighting those middleweights Bernard, why dont you bring Calderon up to fight you

THE REED™
10-13-2009, 05:30 PM
Keep getting embarassed Roy... whose gonna knock you out next? HUGE THREAT Danny Green? Or will it be Grandpa HOP?

THE REED™
10-13-2009, 05:31 PM
I'm outta here, I cant stand biased Bernard Fans

THE REED™
10-13-2009, 05:31 PM
Yeah Im biased but you have a ****ing Roy shrine in your profile.. get the **** outta here

ИATAS
10-13-2009, 05:53 PM
I cant believe 100% of you IDIOTS voted for HOPKINS, Jones was the best fighter of all times hopkins fought flyweights for living!

ИATAS
10-13-2009, 05:54 PM
Jones had a glass jaw, he was KO'd by journeymen of the likes of Antonio "Milk Dudd" Tarver and Glen "I have 85 losses" Johnson.

Hopkins easily!

THE REED™
10-13-2009, 05:54 PM
I cant believe 100% of you IDIOTS voted for HOPKINS, Jones was the best fighter of all times hopkins fought flyweights for living!

Jones was a bum who got exposed the very first time he faced a DECENT fighter. pned!

ИATAS
10-13-2009, 05:55 PM
Hopkins was nothing but a thug. He was in prison and he should have stayed there. He was a fake champion, the only reason he was champ was because Roy Jones left the middleweight division while hopkins had to starve himself for 25 years to avoid him. Hopkins was scared and still is. Jones is better, always has been

THE REED™
10-13-2009, 05:58 PM
Hopkins was nothing but a thug. He was in prison and he should have stayed there. He was a fake champion, the only reason he was champ was because Roy Jones left the middleweight division while hopkins had to starve himself for 25 years to avoid him. Hopkins was scared and still is. Jones is better, always has been

Interesting, Bernard starved himself and STILL owned the division for 10 years... seems like he should get EXTRA credit.

ИATAS
10-13-2009, 05:59 PM
Interesting, Bernard starved himself and STILL owned the division for 10 years... seems like he should get EXTRA credit.

Yeah because there were bums in the division and he fought Echols and Robert Allen a combined total of like 14 times.

THE REED™
10-13-2009, 06:00 PM
Yeah because there were bums in the division and he fought Echols and Robert Allen a combined total of like 14 times.

Right lets simply write off the fact he fought oscar and Trinidad

ИATAS
10-13-2009, 06:12 PM
Right lets simply write off the fact he fought oscar and Trinidad

Career jr welterweights.

THE REED™
10-13-2009, 06:13 PM
Career jr welterweights.

Trinidad was a champion at MW... what was Hopkins supposed to do? NOT fight him? Could you imagine the ducking arguments he would get to this day?

Chr0nic
10-13-2009, 06:14 PM
Career jr welterweights.
cant argue that

Chr0nic
10-13-2009, 06:14 PM
nah im kiddin, you guys keep up the good work

ИATAS
10-13-2009, 06:18 PM
Trinidad was a champion at MW... what was Hopkins supposed to do? NOT fight him? Could you imagine the ducking arguments he would get to this day?

he should have moved up in weight and fought in his natural weight class, which is light heavyweight or cruiserweight. He should have fought Roy Jones, Calzaghe, Vassiliy Jirov, Jean-Marc Mormeck, James Toney, etc.

THE REED™
10-13-2009, 06:22 PM
he should have moved up in weight and fought in his natural weight class, which is light heavyweight or cruiserweight. He should have fought Roy Jones, Calzaghe, Vassiliy Jirov, Jean-Marc Mormeck, James Toney, etc.

Well he already fought Roy, and Roy was completely unreasonable in making the rematch, he fought Calzaghe at LHW, James Toney couldnt handle staying at SMW for very long, the guy gained 5 lbs a week.

On top of the fact why leave a division you are unifying and dominating? 20 title defenses is a MW record... thats legacy, why would you leave until you finish your business? Not too mention the huge money fights involving Oscar and Trinidad.... When he DID lose BARELY to Taylor then he did move up... 2 WEIGHT CLASSES instantly and schooled the #1 LHW, at 40 years old... which basically dismisses your "should have moved up" hypothetical bull****.

ИATAS
10-13-2009, 06:51 PM
Taylor whooped his ass twice and calzaghe made him his prison *****. Roy Jones never lost to the same man twice and calzaghe was lucky jones had a horrible cutman that night cuz the blood messed up his vision.

20 title defenses is a joke because he fought bums and welterweights. anyone with halfway decent skills could have done that.

Tarver was weight drained by the Rocky movie, he had to lose 70 pounds of pure muscle in like 3 weeks he was a shell of a man that night. Not to mention after he "moved up" he fought winky who was a jr. flyweight at one point and pavlik had to move up 15 pounds and had swine flu and broken elbow.

THE REED™
10-13-2009, 06:54 PM
Roy lost to Tarver twice, the rest of your over-exaggerated post reminds me a lot of the fighter you defend.

ИATAS
10-13-2009, 07:04 PM
Roy lost to Tarver twice, the rest of your over-exaggerated post reminds me a lot of the fighter you defend.

Listen dickweed, everyone with a brain knows Jones won the rubber match, he clearly out-boxed Tarver and should have won a UD. I scored it 8-4, Jones.

Jones' acheivements are NOT exaggerated - he one belts at midleweight, super middleweight, light heavyweight and HEAVYWEIGHT. The latter alone is 10000X more important than any washed up welterweight b-hop ever beat.

THE REED™
10-13-2009, 07:07 PM
Listen dickweed, everyone with a brain knows Jones won the rubber match, he clearly out-boxed Tarver and should have won a UD. I scored it 8-4, Jones.

Jones' acheivements are NOT exaggerated - he one belts at midleweight, super middleweight, light heavyweight and HEAVYWEIGHT. The latter alone is 10000X more important than any washed up welterweight b-hop ever beat.

John Ruiz is a complete and utter garbage bum... talk about cherry picking for an easy belt and ducking the real HW champ in Lewis... he ran back down to LHW faster then a whiteboy chasing a Peanut Butter sandwich... and whats hilarious is, he got knocked out there too.

ИATAS
10-13-2009, 07:11 PM
John Ruiz is a complete and utter garbage bum... talk about cherry picking for an easy belt and ducking the real HW champ in Lewis... he ran back down to LHW faster then a whiteboy chasing a Peanut Butter sandwich... and whats hilarious is, he got knocked out there too.

he was weight drained and past his prime when he got KO'd. ****, he was 49-1 prior to that happening.

Ruiz a bum? Are you kidding me? He's only the greatest Puerto Rican heavyweight champ of all time, not too mention a guy like Hopkins, let alone your average middleweight, would get KTFO by Ruiz.

THE REED™
10-13-2009, 07:15 PM
he was weight drained and past his prime when he got KO'd. ****, he was 49-1 prior to that happening.

Ruiz a bum? Are you kidding me? He's only the greatest Puerto Rican heavyweight champ of all time, not too mention a guy like Hopkins, let alone your average middleweight, would get KTFO by Ruiz.

The greatest PR HW of all time is no different than saying the greatest Australian basketball player of all time... it means f.cuk all.

Benny Leonard
10-13-2009, 07:18 PM
John Ruiz is a complete and utter garbage bum... talk about cherry picking for an easy belt and ducking the real HW champ in Lewis... he ran back down to LHW faster then a whiteboy chasing a Peanut Butter sandwich... and whats hilarious is, he got knocked out there too.

I wouldn't call that "hilarious"...I would call that a cautionary tale for all fighters that want to move back down in weight like that, especially at that age where the body is susceptible to fall off.
Roy was still a former MW, SMW, LH, that moved up to fight a legit 200+ pound HW with a title.

Lewis never fought Ruiz or Byrd...two fighters that held the title while he reigned despite Byrd continually calling him out.
Now did Roy cherry-pick one of the titles….absolutely, but it was there to be picked because "The Champ," Lennox Lewis, didn't have that title.

THE REED™
10-13-2009, 07:19 PM
I wouldn't call that "hilarious"...I would call that a cautionary tale for all fighters that want to move back down in weight like that, especially at that age where the body is susceptible to fall off.
Roy was still a former MW, SMW, LH, that moved up to fight a legit 200+ pound HW with a title.

Lewis never fought Ruiz or Byrd...two fighters that held the title while he reigned despite Byrd continually calling him out.
Now did Roy cherry-pick one of the titles….absolutely, but it was there to be picked because "The Champ," Lennox Lewis, didn't have that title.

Stay on topic.

Benny Leonard
10-13-2009, 07:28 PM
Well he already fought Roy, and Roy was completely unreasonable in making the rematch, he fought Calzaghe at LHW, James Toney couldnt handle staying at SMW for very long, the guy gained 5 lbs a week.

On top of the fact why leave a division you are unifying and dominating? 20 title defenses is a MW record... thats legacy, why would you leave until you finish your business? Not too mention the huge money fights involving Oscar and Trinidad.... When he DID lose BARELY to Taylor then he did move up... 2 WEIGHT CLASSES instantly and schooled the #1 LHW, at 40 years old... which basically dismisses your "should have moved up" hypothetical bull****.

How so? Roy was the bigger star in the bigger weight division. I never thought Hopkins wanted a rematch. He lost to Roy. Put money aside and get that rematch win if you think you are the better man. What ever happened to his talk about Money doesn't last forever but legacy does.

But yes, I agree with you with the other because I said that as well: Why move up to fight Calzaghe when your legacy is being made at MW and you are shooting for big paydays...like against Oscar. And then the threat to your legacy when Taylor came around, although Hopkins was past his best by that point. Young Hopkins starts from round 1 and continues through round 12, unlike the stamina cautious Old Hopkins. Although Hopkins can't complain how that Calzaghe fight turned out because he was the one that waited that long to make that fight happen.

THE REED™
10-13-2009, 07:31 PM
How so? Roy was the bigger star in the bigger weight division. I never thought Hopkins wanted a rematch. He lost to Roy. Put money aside and get that rematch win if you think you are the better man. What ever happened to his talk about Money doesn't last forever but legacy does.

But yes, I agree with you with the other because I said that as well: Why move up to fight Calzaghe when your legacy is being made at MW and you are shooting for big paydays...like against Oscar. And then the threat to your legacy when Taylor came around, although Hopkins was past his best by that point. Young Hopkins starts from round 1 and continues through round 12, unlike the stamina cautious Old Hopkins. Although Hopkins can't complain how that Calzaghe fight turned out because he was the one that waited that long to make that fight happen.

60-40 at LHW, while Bhop was a MW was not reasonable.

Benny Leonard
10-13-2009, 07:34 PM
Roy lost to Tarver twice, the rest of your over-exaggerated post reminds me a lot of the fighter you defend.

Yes, but Roy also looked like Casper the Ghost in that first fight and never fully recovered from the weight-loss. And when Hopkins fought Tarver, Tarver got the Boomerang effect from the Roy weight-loss system. Hopkins fought a deflated Tarver. That wasn't the same Tarver that battled it out with Johnson or fought Roy Jones Jr.

But in simple terms like many use, yes; Roy lost to Tarver and Tarver lost to Hopkins. Ali also lost to Berbick.

Benny Leonard
10-13-2009, 07:35 PM
60-40 at LHW, while Bhop was a MW was not reasonable.

Let's see: Roy was a LH Champion (as well as a former MW and SMW Champion), P4P #1, beat Hopkins, was the bigger draw...and?
60-40 is a great deal.

B-Hop *****ed out. This is Philly talk.

Lokotron
10-13-2009, 07:36 PM
60-40 at LHW, while Bhop was a MW was not reasonable.

It's a tought choice but I have to go with Bernard because he beat two opponents who knocked out Roy.He also beat trinidad at a more natural weight and scored a knockout roy failed to knock out a washed up tito at a weight he didn't belong in.Bernard "lost to calzaghe" imo he really won but it was close.Roy got beaten badly no disrespect to roy.Hopkins is fighting people younger then him.Roy jones done so much we will be able to know for sure after both fighters retire for good.

Benny Leonard
10-13-2009, 07:40 PM
It's a tought choice but I have to go with Bernard because he beat two opponents who knocked out Roy.He also beat trinidad at a more natural weight and scored a knockout roy failed to knock out a washed up tito at a weight he didn't belong in.Bernard "lost to calzaghe" imo he really won but it was close.Roy got beaten badly no disrespect to roy.Hopkins is fighting people younger then him.Roy jones done so much we will be able to know for sure after both fighters retire for good.

Mike Tyson > Ali. Tyson beat two opponents that lumped up Ali...Holmes and Berbick.

Mmmm, that's because Roy was washed up as well.

billionaire
10-13-2009, 07:42 PM
roy jones is a known cheater.....who handpicked bums at lhw......made excuses when he lost......and he barely beat 40 year old mike mccallum.......

THE REED™
10-13-2009, 07:57 PM
Let's see: Roy was a LH Champion (as well as a former MW and SMW Champion), P4P #1, beat Hopkins, was the bigger draw...and?
60-40 is a great deal.

B-Hop *****ed out. This is Philly talk.

So the MW champ moving up two weight classes for 40% is REASONABLE?

Benny Leonard
10-13-2009, 09:02 PM
So the MW champ moving up two weight classes for 40% is REASONABLE?

Absolutely when considering you are the P4P#1, Champion in 3 weight-classes, the bigger Name...and have a victory over the person that wants another shot at you.

How much would Hopkins have gotten if Roy was still the Champ at MW and Hopkins was the challenger?

Just remember, it didn't stop Hopkins from jumping up two weight classes to fight a drained Tarver in his later years. Now I'm not sure how much B-Hop got from that fight, but I do wonder if it was more than the 40% he could have gotten with a rematch with Jones Jr. when both were still going good.

The fight for legacy didn't mean anything to Hopkins or he would have took the 40%. It certainly would have been more money than the Hakkar fight.



Ok, found something:

After the fight, he was asked if this was truly his final fight, for which he made a minimum of $5 million. He left a slight opening. What if someone offered him $20 million to fight again, he was asked.


"I stayed at middleweight because I was disciplined and because I wanted to make history by making all those defenses," Hopkins said. "I could have gone up a long time ago, but being at middleweight was comfortable for me. I wanted to make history [at middleweight], move up and fight the winner of Roy Jones and Antonio Tarver, and although I had to fight Taylor one extra time, that's what happened."


http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=2478678

So 5+ million vs. 40% against Roy Jones Jr. which would have been PPV and most likely been in Vegas.

Lokotron
10-14-2009, 03:02 AM
Mike Tyson > Ali. Tyson beat two opponents that lumped up Ali...Holmes and Berbick.

Mmmm, that's because Roy was washed up as well.

I know **** like that happens but tarver was in his prime and hopkins came all the way up from 160 to 175.That Glen Johnson he beat was in his prime.Bernard and roy weren't in their prime when they fought.

Spray_resistant
10-14-2009, 10:33 AM
So the MW champ moving up two weight classes for 40% is REASONABLE?

Well....it seems you have made every possible argument for both fighters. Hope you had a great convo with yourself while leaving no one anything to contribute to the thread. Maybe I wanted to make subjective arguments too, but why bother now:grumble:

THE REED™
10-14-2009, 10:52 AM
Well....it seems you have made every possible argument for both fighters. Hope you had a great convo with yourself while leaving no one anything to contribute to the thread. Maybe I wanted to make subjective arguments too, but why bother now:grumble:

:lol1: Because I've been involved in this conversation 6,000 times... Don't blame because I left nothing else to talk about.. :rofl: