View Full Version : Some Extremely Interesting Larry Holmes Comments


JB16
10-13-2009, 03:40 PM
'Like me or loathe me-I'm going to give it to you straight. Tyson, Holyfield-you wound't have heard of them if they had fought back in the seventies. Smokin Joe Frazier would have bombed Tyson out. So would have Bonavena, Lyle, Shavers, Norton, and Quarry. Those were big, strong punching suckers. Even Mac Foster and Ernie Terrell would have beat them. Ali would have ambushed him as Tyson charged foward. Foreman? After he hit Tyson, Little Mikey would have been ready for socail Security.

There are people who tell me I'm dead wrong about this. But I'm a student of boxing and can tell you that while Tyson is a good fighter for today, he's not one of the great fighters of all time. Not even close. He can't take a punch. Every time Tyson gets knocked down, he dosen't get up. Thats when you prove yourself as a great fighter.


Holyfield has a lot of courage, but as a heavyweight he'd have been a sparring parther back when Ali, Foreman, Frazier, Shavers and Holmes were working. He simply gets hit to much. And while he can get away with it in todays Heavyweight scene, he'd have been dead meat back in my time. Out of his league. Ali would have slapped him silly with the jab. It would have been a cakewalk. Foreman who went the distance with him as a old man, would have creamed him back then.

At least Holyfield has a warrior's heart. It's more than I can say for Lennox Lewis. He's a joke-a big, athletic guy who's strictly a front runner. Put him against a fighter who stands up to him-like say Ray Mercer did- and Lewis is exposed as a man who dosen't like a real fight. Lennox Lewis is just a Heavyweight wanna-be.

Hell, he stopped by to see me in Easton once and, when I asked him why he wound't fight me, he said: ''I can't give you a fight. You got too good a jab. Teach me the jab''

''I don't wanna teach you'' I told him. ''I wanna fight you'' ''Nah'' he said ''I don't want to mess with that jab''

If the roles had been reversed....if I were the young kid and he were the old champ challenging me, i'd have told him ''Bring me the money and I'II kick your ass''

One guy who had some talent was Riddick Bowe. He punched good and had the moves. But Bowe lacked the staying power. Soon as he won the title, he ate himself into a fatman, and fight by fight he seemed to lose his passion for the game. By the time Andrew Golota got in there with him, Bowe was a shell of himself. It takes a whole lot to keep it together, to have the longevity that fighters from my era-Ali, Frazier, Foreman, myself-had.

''Larry Holmes''

cotto16
10-13-2009, 03:44 PM
'Like me or loathe me-I'm going to give it to you straight. Tyson, Holyfield-you wound't have heard of them if they had fought back in the seventies. Smokin Joe Frazier would have bombed Tyson out. So would have Bonavena, Lyle, Shavers, Norton, and Quarry. Those were big, strong punching suckers. Even Mac Foster and Ernie Terrell would have beat them. Ali would have ambushed him as Tyson charged foward. Foreman? After he hit Tyson, Little Mikey would have been ready for socail Security.

There are people who tell me I'm dead wrong about this. But I'm a student of boxing and can tell you that while Tyson is a good fighter for today, he's not one of the great fighters of all time. Not even close. He can't take a punch. Every time Tyson gets knocked down, he dosen't get up. Thats when you prove yourself as a great fighter.


Holyfield has a lot of courage, but as a heavyweight he'd have been a sparring parther back when Ali, Foreman, Frazier, Shavers and Holmes were working. He simply gets hit to much. And while he can get away with it in todays Heavyweight scene, he'd have been dead meat back in my time. Out of his league. Ali would have slapped him silly with the jab. It would have been a cakewalk. Foreman who went the distance with him as a old man, would have creamed him back then.

At least Holyfield has a warrior's heart. It's more than I can say for Lennox Lewis. He's a joke-a big, athletic guy who's strictly a front runner. Put him against a fighter who stands up to him-like say Ray Mercer did- and Lewis is exposed as a man who dosen't like a real fight. Lennox Lewis is just a Heavyweight wanna-be.

Hell, he stopped by to see me in Easton once and, when I asked him why he wound't fight me, he said: ''I can't give you a fight. You got too good a jab. Teach me the jab''

''I don't wanna teach you'' I told him. ''I wanna fight you'' ''Nah'' he said ''I don't want to mess with that jab''

If the roles had been reversed....if I were the young kid and he were the old champ challenging me, i'd have told him ''Bring me the money and I'II kick your ass''

One guy who had some talent was Riddick Bowe. He punched good and had the moves. But Bowe lacked the staying power. Soon as he won the title, he ate himself into a fatman, and fight by fight he seemed to lose his passion for the game. By the time Andrew Golota got in there with him, Bowe was a shell of himself. It takes a whole lot to keep it together, to have the longevity that fighters from my era-Ali, Frazier, Foreman, myself-had.

''Larry Holmes''

That big mouth ****!

Dynamite Kid
10-13-2009, 04:00 PM
Retarded points of view from Holmes.

Chr0nic
10-13-2009, 04:27 PM
i agree with everything

Dynamite Kid
10-13-2009, 04:43 PM
i agree with everything

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

larry x
10-13-2009, 04:51 PM
i think holmes is just trying to talk himself up..prime tyson and prime holyfield beats prime holmes...holmes is nothing but a gap in history between ali and tyson..and i think that hurts him

THE REED™
10-13-2009, 04:53 PM
Dude is SOOOO bitter after being knocked out from Tyson, all he does is talk **** on Tyson for the last 20 years.

larry x
10-13-2009, 04:56 PM
holmes was a solid fighter..but he is and always will be remembered as ali's sparring parnter who beat him up when he was old,coming out of retirement and sick.....and thats his biggest win imo

Benncollinsaad
10-13-2009, 04:57 PM
He's right about Lewis. Definitely. Ray Mercer exposed Lewis as just another hype. A guy who had been winning on size and crude strength and not on skill and heart. Had Morrison not been wasted when they fought, he woulda given him the same treatment Mercer did.

larry x
10-13-2009, 05:27 PM
correct me if im wrong..didnt lewis beat mercer??

Benncollinsaad
10-13-2009, 05:39 PM
correct me if im wrong..didnt lewis beat mercer??

No. It was a MD which shoulda been a UD for Mercer. Or a draw AT LEAST!

JmtRyan
10-13-2009, 07:06 PM
correct me if im wrong..didnt lewis beat mercer??

Yes he did.

Also, Tyson couldn't take a punch? :rofl:

billionaire
10-13-2009, 07:45 PM
larry holmes is the biggest hater besides floyd sr what do you expect...evander holyfield is skilled enough to hang with norton frazier etc....lol at him taking lennox admiration seriously...

holmes is top 5 heavy regardless.....

Princemanspopa
10-13-2009, 08:14 PM
No. It was a MD which shoulda been a UD for Mercer. Or a draw AT LEAST!

You've never even seen that fight.No amount of browsing Boxrec will tell you how that fight played out Mr Boxrec Ranger.

sonnyboyx2
10-14-2009, 01:37 AM
Hey its only the other day that you guys `jumped on my case`claiming i had disrespected Larry Holmes... Now someone has put up a couple of phrases from Holmes autobiography "Against The Odds" and you yourselves are assasinating the guy.. The best laugh i have ever had on this or any other forum was the guys who claim Lennox Lewis would have beat Joe Frazier, that is just hilarious thinking, its like saying Ricky Hatton beats Roberto Duran. Joe Frazier was the roughest and toughest of them all and Larry Holmes aint being bitter, he has no need to be bitter he gets his respect on these forums every single day, what fight fans need to do is `pay attention to what great fighters like Holmes have to say`he is only telling it like it really is.

bojangles1987
10-14-2009, 08:36 AM
I think Tyson would have been beaten by many of the 70's heavyweights, or at least had lots of trouble with them.

Ali, Foreman, Frazier, and Holmes would have beaten him, and guys like Norton and Shavers would have definitely given him trouble.

Holyfield, Lewis, the Klitschkos, none of them would just walk into that era and have lots of success. They wouldn't be bums or anything, but they would have trouble winning titles.

them_apples
10-14-2009, 08:41 AM
i think holmes is just trying to talk himself up..prime tyson and prime holyfield beats prime holmes...holmes is nothing but a gap in history between ali and tyson..and i think that hurts him

pretty sure a Prime holmes takes out Holyfield, it's a styles thing. I don't know what he was saying about Bonavena beating Tyson or even Frazier, pretty bad style matchups, even Frazier said he hated fighting men his height.

You watch a past prime Mike fighting Buster Mathis Jr, aka a poor mans Frazier, and it was a recipe for disaster.

mickey malone
10-14-2009, 08:50 AM
I agree with most of what he's saying.. Way too harsh on Tyson though.. Had Cus D'Amato lived another 10 years, Mike would have been the greatest..

Benny Leonard
10-14-2009, 08:58 AM
Yes he did.

Also, Tyson couldn't take a punch? :rofl:

"I can't understand what these people are looking at," Giachetti said. "I watch the replay and I see three or four times where Ruddock is out on his feet. Here's the thing--Mike goes out there with the second-best heavyweight in the world, dominates most of the rounds, dominates the fight, knocks him down twice, breaks his jaw and puts him in the hospital.

"Now, he's fought Ruddock 19 rounds, and I think Mike won 16 of them, if you take away the point deductions.

"Now, were they (Tyson's media critics) at the same fight I was? I mean, what do they want from this guy? Here's Ruddock, who everyone agreed had the greatest single shot in boxing, his left hook, and he tags Mike several times right on the button with it, and Mike doesn't go down.

"I used to think Larry (Holmes) had the greatest chin I ever saw. After Friday, I changed my mind. No one, ever, had a better chin than Mike's."~ Richie Giachetti {former trainer of Larry Holmes}


http://articles.latimes.com/1991-07-06/sports/sp-1610_1_tyson-fights

sonnyboyx2
10-14-2009, 08:59 AM
pretty sure a Prime holmes takes out Holyfield, it's a styles thing. I don't know what he was saying about Bonavena beating Tyson or even Frazier, pretty bad style matchups, even Frazier said he hated fighting men his height.

You watch a past prime Mike fighting Buster Mathis Jr, aka a poor mans Frazier, and it was a recipe for disaster.
you are deluded if you think Joe Frazier resembles Buster Mathis jr. in anyway...

Holmes is telling the truth about Bonavena, Joe Frazier said Bonavena was the toughest guy he ever fought, Bonavena had a style all of his own, he was a `barrel-chested two-fisted brawler who bobbed, rolled and weaved his way in, he was a very dangerous man for anyone past or present.. i have Frazier vs Bonavena (2) full fight and its as good a fight over 15rds as any fight in history

Benncollinsaad
10-14-2009, 09:11 AM
You've never even seen that fight.No amount of browsing Boxrec will tell you how that fight played out Mr Boxrec Ranger.

Did somebody say something?? I guess it was just a dog barking.:rolleyes:

Dynamite Kid
10-14-2009, 09:13 AM
you are deluded if you think Joe Frazier resembles Buster Mathis jr. in anyway...

Holmes is telling the truth about Bonavena, Joe Frazier said Bonavena was the toughest guy he ever fought, Bonavena had a style all of his own, he was a `barrel-chested two-fisted brawler who bobbed, rolled and weaved his way in, he was a very dangerous man for anyone past or present.. i have Frazier vs Bonavena (2) full fight and its as good a fight over 15rds as any fight in history

Does it have no commentary? i have it to be its silent, im wondering if you have the same copy ?

Burning Desire
10-14-2009, 09:54 AM
i think holmes is just trying to talk himself up..prime tyson and prime holyfield beats prime holmes...holmes is nothing but a gap in history between ali and tyson..and i think that hurts him

I don't think so somehow, a prime Evander Holyfield just about beat a 42 year old Larry Holmes by 7 rounds to 5.

As for Mike Tyson well thats hard to tell, Larry Holmes was ring rusty and unprepared for a prime Mike Tyson while also being 38, plus Larry Holmes hadn't looked good in previous fights with Carl Williams, David Bey, Michael Spinks.

A prime Larry Holmes the version that fought Earnie Shavers in there 1st meeting, had a great chance of beating Mike Tyson. He had a great jab, was good at keeping range, could tie up, great movement, good height, good chin, good heart.

All the attributes that you need to beat a prime Mike Tyson, i've always said Tony Tucker vs Mike Tyson or James Tillis vs Mike Tyson, prove how fighters like Muhammad Ali, Larry Holmes, would have beaten Mike Tyson.

The blueprint is in those fights its just those fighters, wern't good enough. Although theres still what ifs in those fights, like if Tony Tucker wouldn't have broke his hand in the 4th round.

Or if James Tillis wouldn't have thrown such a stupid wild amateurish left hook,
and getting caught with a counter shot being off balance, while having probably his best round of the fight. And had that not happened the fight could of been a draw IMO, because two judges scored it 6-4 for Mike Tyson and that round in the fight was the most important round of the fight.

Benny Leonard
10-14-2009, 12:10 PM
I don't think so somehow, a prime Evander Holyfield just about beat a 42 year old Larry Holmes by 7 rounds to 5.

As for Mike Tyson well thats hard to tell, Larry Holmes was ring rusty and unprepared for a prime Mike Tyson while also being 38, plus Larry Holmes hadn't looked good in previous fights with Carl Williams, David Bey, Michael Spinks.

A prime Larry Holmes the version that fought Earnie Shavers in there 1st meeting, had a great chance of beating Mike Tyson. He had a great jab, was good at keeping range, could tie up, great movement, good height, good chin, good heart.

All the attributes that you need to beat a prime Mike Tyson, i've always said Tony Tucker vs Mike Tyson or James Tillis vs Mike Tyson, prove how fighters like Muhammad Ali, Larry Holmes, would have beaten Mike Tyson.

The blueprint is in those fights its just those fighters, wern't good enough. Although theres still what ifs in those fights, like if Tony Tucker wouldn't have broke his hand in the 4th round.

Or if James Tillis wouldn't have thrown such a stupid wild amateurish left hook,
and getting caught with a counter shot being off balance, while having probably his best round of the fight. And had that not happened the fight could of been a draw IMO, because two judges scored it 6-4 for Mike Tyson and that round in the fight was the most important round of the fight.


Tillis: Mike was young and still inexperienced and unsure of himself at this point. He didn't know if he could go into the later rounds since he was busy knocking people out early. Tyson started to hold back and when he got into the last round he realized that going past a certain point in a fight is really just mental if you are trained for it. This was said by Kevin Rooney as well as Tyson later on. In his next fight, Tyson was set out to prove it by boxing Mitch Green to a UD. In that fight you can see a more confident fighter. That's just one fight it took Tyson to raise his confidence about his ability and improve dramatically in that department. Green, like the rest, all lost and all held to keep alive. And when Tillis's name was dropped again to Tyson, Tyson said something on the lines that with respect to Tillis, but if he fought him again he would knock him out (because he understood now what to do and he was a more confident fighter in his abilities).

Tyson liked openings. You punch, you miss, he connects. The way to frustrate Tyson is to actually not punch and use the clinch...which is why he hated to talk about the Bonecrusher Smith fight. But you are not winning if you don't punch.

Tucker: Tucker was undefeated, 6'5, 220+ pounds, long reach, fast, and agile...and still lost by UD. He also held on when Tyson was in close and used his legs to get away from Tyson. All that, and still, Tyson at 5'11 and a short reach, managed to land jabs on the tall agile opponent. That weapon, the jab, which was fast, hard and accurate...became underrated with him...especially after he left Rooney and threw less of them.


One thing that was brought up on Ringside Mike Tyson was the comment by Atlas that Tyson, Cus, and he {Atlas} used to talk about Larry Holmes and how he {Tyson} could beat him. If I remember correctly, Cus felt Holmes did something wrong that Tyson could capitalize on because Tyson was fast, threw hard, and could time an opponent. I think it was about Holmes continually dropping his left after he jabbed so the right hand was the weapon to take him down.

Just remember, both Holmes and Ali also had their hands full with other fighters.

Ali was knocked down with the left hook from Cooper and Frazier...something Tyson was great at throwing. Ali kept his hands low and pulled back a lot. He was also dropped when he was mixing it up with Sonny Banks with a left-hook. Someone with a fast, powerful left-hook like Tyson, who could time punches and movements when properly trained (in his peak)...could cause trouble for Ali.

But I do think Ali is very capable of beating Tyson and I would favor Ali...peak vs. peak.

Holmes however, I'm not as sure.

sonnyboyx2
10-14-2009, 12:18 PM
[QUOTE=Dynamite Kid;6356252]Does it have no commentary? i have it to be its silent, im wondering if you have the same copy ?[/QU
no commentary just crowd noise

sonnyboyx2
10-14-2009, 12:22 PM
Tillis: Mike was young and still inexperienced and unsure of himself at this point. He didn't know if he could go into the later rounds since he was busy knocking people out early. Tyson started to hold back and when he got into the last round he realized that going past a certain point in a fight is really just mental if you are trained for it. This was said by Kevin Rooney as well as Tyson later on. In his next fight, Tyson was set out to prove it by boxing Mitch Green to a UD. In that fight you can see a more confident fighter. That's just one fight it took Tyson to raise his confidence about his ability and improve dramatically in that department. Green, like the rest, all lost and all held to keep alive. And when Tillis's name was dropped again to Tyson, Tyson said something on the lines that with respect to Tillis, but if he fought him again he would knock him out (because he understood now what to do and he was a more confident fighter in his abilities).

Tyson liked openings. You punch, you miss, he connects. The way to frustrate Tyson is to actually not punch and use the clinch...which is why he hated to talk about the Bonecrusher Smith fight. But you are not winning if you don't punch.

Tucker: Tucker was undefeated, 6'5, 220+ pounds, long reach, fast, and agile...and still lost by UD. He also held on when Tyson was in close and used his legs to get away from Tyson. All that, and still, Tyson at 5'11 and a short reach, managed to land jabs on the tall agile opponent. That weapon, the jab, which was fast, hard and accurate...became underrated with him...especially after he left Rooney and threw less of them.


One thing that was brought up on Ringside Mike Tyson was the comment by Atlas that Tyson, Cus, and he {Atlas} used to talk about Larry Holmes and how he {Tyson} could beat him. If I remember correctly, Cus felt Holmes did something wrong that Tyson could capitalize on because Tyson was fast, threw hard, and could time an opponent. I think it was about Holmes continually dropping his left after he jabbed so the right hand was the weapon to take him down.

Just remember, both Holmes and Ali also had their hands full with other fighters.

Ali was knocked down with the left hook from Cooper and Frazier...something Tyson was great at throwing. Ali kept his hands low and pulled back a lot. He was also dropped when he was mixing it up with Sonny Banks with a left-hook. Someone with a fast, powerful left-hook like Tyson, who could time punches and movements when properly trained (in his peak)...could cause trouble for Ali.

But I do think Ali is very capable of beating Tyson and I would favor Ali...peak vs. peak.

Holmes however, I'm not as sure.

if Buster Douglas can knock Tyson from pillar-to-post with a jab and a right-hand then Muhammad Ali would do the same... Tyson was not that far past his peak when Douglas hammered him, his youth was still carrying him

Benny Leonard
10-14-2009, 12:31 PM
if Buster Douglas can knock Tyson from pillar-to-post with a jab and a right-hand then Muhammad Ali would do the same... Tyson was not that far past his peak when Douglas hammered him, his youth was still carrying him

No, he was just in **** shape. You do realize that you have to actually train for a fight, right?
Especially a 5'11, 215 pound HW that needs to be in tip-top shape against a
6'3+, 230 pound agile fighter with a long reach, can throw a solid jab, and has some power to back it up who was well trained, motivated, and on a winning streak.

Come in out of shape and your chances of winning are lowered.


I think even Douglas knew this which is why he refused Tyson's want for the rematch.

Mersey
10-14-2009, 12:40 PM
They're comments of a bitter... bitter.... man.

I understand why though, people talk about Tyson, Holyfield and Lewis more than Holmes. I'd be jealous too.

Squirrel
10-14-2009, 01:45 PM
What he says does kinda sound like bitterness, especially the Tyson comments.

I don't exactly agree with the Lewis comments, especially the part about them fighting/his jab etc, but his point about Mercer is quite incisive; i'd never thought of that before.