View Full Version : Did Tim Witherspoon Beat Larry Holmes ?..


mickey malone
10-13-2009, 08:38 AM
Hi to all.. I've read many posts recently, inferring that Carl Williams came the closest to beating Holmes, pre Spinks, of course..

I'd say an argument can be made that Terrible Tim gave him a harder fight over 12 than The Truth did over 15.. Many observers at the time, including myself, thought that Tim won.. And lets not forget, this was against the more prime 1983 version of Holmes..

Be interesting to read your thoughts and opinions...
Is it just me? Or was 'Spoon' robbed?...

Dynamite Kid
10-13-2009, 10:23 AM
Hi to all.. I've read many posts recently, inferring that Carl Williams came the closest to beating Holmes, pre Spinks, of course..

I'd say an argument can be made that Terrible Tim gave him a harder fight over 12 than The Truth did over 15.. Many observers at the time, including myself, thought that Tim won.. And lets not forget, this was against the more prime 1983 version of Holmes..

Be interesting to read your thoughts and opinions...
Is it just me? Or was 'Spoon' robbed?...



To be honest i did not score the fight but i thought Larry won because he was more active round by round. Witherspoon did too much waiting and let Holmes dictate the pace, he finished strong though did Witherspoon to what i remember.

I thought Williams pushed Holmes a lot more personally. Holmes actually had to dig down to beat Williams.

That said i thought Griffin beat Toney but when i re watched a week ago and actually scored it this time i had it 8-4 Toney, it just goes to show that if you dont actually watch whats landing you can be fooled, Griffin had Toney fighting his kind of fight and he was dictating the pace of the fight which led me to believe he won the fight but having watched the fight back he did not connect as much as i thought he did and Toney landed the more solid punches.

I would have to watch Witherspoon and Holmes and score it next time.

Benncollinsaad
10-13-2009, 11:01 AM
Sure **** he did! He had Holmes on the verge of knockout in the 9th and outshone him in the majority of the rounds. Isn't it proof enough that one judge scored it for Witherspoon, the underdog?

mickey malone
10-13-2009, 12:30 PM
Sure **** he did! He had Holmes on the verge of knockout in the 9th and outshone him in the majority of the rounds. Isn't it proof enough that one judge scored it for Witherspoon, the underdog?
Yep... That's how I remember it.. A split decision that went the wrong way.. Can remember Larry being interviewed after the fight, and it was pointed out, that most people thought he'd lost.. He wasn't at all dismissive, & just responded by saying, it was up to the judges.. I got the distinct impression, that Holmes felt he'd been very lucky.. Meanwhile Witherspoon was ranting furiously, and claiming victory in the face of a robbery..

Benncollinsaad
10-13-2009, 12:35 PM
I'll have to watch it again if I can find it, since I've last seen it a year ago, but I gave Witherspoon 7 or 8 rounds.

Dynamite Kid
10-13-2009, 12:53 PM
Yep... That's how I remember it.. A split decision that went the wrong way.. Can remember Larry being interviewed after the fight, and it was pointed out, that most people thought he'd lost.. He wasn't at all dismissive, & just responded by saying, it was up to the judges.. I got the distinct impression, that Holmes felt he'd been very lucky.. Meanwhile Witherspoon was ranting furiously, and claiming victory in the face of a robbery..

I dont think that is much of a yard stick though, great fighters are never satisfied when they under-perform, look at Roy Jones face after the Tarver fight, you would think Roy knew he lost but he clearly did enough to win the fight, he was just disappointed in his performance

sonnyboyx2
10-13-2009, 01:00 PM
Hi to all.. I've read many posts recently, inferring that Carl Williams came the closest to beating Holmes, pre Spinks, of course..

I'd say an argument can be made that Terrible Tim gave him a harder fight over 12 than The Truth did over 15.. Many observers at the time, including myself, thought that Tim won.. And lets not forget, this was against the more prime 1983 version of Holmes..

Be interesting to read your thoughts and opinions...
Is it just me? Or was 'Spoon' robbed?...

i had Holmes beating Spoon 7-5

mickey malone
10-13-2009, 01:26 PM
I dont think that is much of a yard stick though, great fighters are never satisfied when they under-perform, look at Roy Jones face after the Tarver fight, you would think Roy knew he lost but he clearly did enough to win the fight, he was just disappointed in his performance
Yes, he was dissapointed, and rightly so.. He'd been exposed somewhat, and didn't have the aura of an undisputed champ that night..

Thread Stealer
10-13-2009, 01:29 PM
I had it 115-114 for Witherspoon. It was very close IMO so I don't have much of a problem with the decision, but the scorecard of 118-111 is pretty outrageous.

1SILVA
10-13-2009, 04:46 PM
Hi to all.. I've read many posts recently, inferring that Carl Williams came the closest to beating Holmes, pre Spinks, of course..

I'd say an argument can be made that Terrible Tim gave him a harder fight over 12 than The Truth did over 15.. Many observers at the time, including myself, thought that Tim won.. And lets not forget, this was against the more prime 1983 version of Holmes..

Be interesting to read your thoughts and opinions...
Is it just me? Or was 'Spoon' robbed?...

The Spoon fight was extremely close. Williams thoroughly out boxed Holmes and in my opinion was blatantly robbed. Two judges gave Holmes 11 rounds!!!!!! I could only find 6 rounds to give to Larry.

Mugwump
10-14-2009, 07:59 PM
In his prime, Witherspoon was a tough competitor. Good chin, slick defence and excellent boxing technique. Indeed, for a brief period I thought he was the man most likely to burst Tyson's '0'.

That said, I think Holmes won.

blacklodge
10-15-2009, 04:42 AM
I would have loved to see a focused Witherspoon against Tyson. I didn't score the Holmes-Spoon fight, but was left with the opinion that the calls of controversey had more to do with people hating Holmes than the actual scoring of the fight. My gut feeling was that Witherspoon didn't do enough to win.
I don't have it on hand, but didn't Holmes cop to the fact that he thought he lost the Witherspoon fight in his autobiography?

mickey malone
10-15-2009, 05:12 AM
I would have loved to see a focused Witherspoon against Tyson. I didn't score the Holmes-Spoon fight, but was left with the opinion that the calls of controversey had more to do with people hating Holmes than the actual scoring of the fight. My gut feeling was that Witherspoon didn't do enough to win.
I don't have it on hand, but didn't Holmes cop to the fact that he thought he lost the Witherspoon fight in his autobiography?
Good post.. I believe he did.. I thought Spoon edged it..

Witherspoon was a seriously class act in his prime, & could beat world class fighters without training.. Had he stayed in shape, I'm confident he'd have given Tyson far more trouble than Tucker and Smith did..

Silencers
10-15-2009, 09:18 AM
I haven't watched it in a while but I remember having Holmes edging it, close fight though.

Dynamite Kid
10-15-2009, 10:15 AM
Holmes vs Spoon


(Witherspoon but im being kind) Spoon

Round 1

Extremely close round where not much landed, Witherspoon landed
a couple of shots and caught a lot of Holmes jabs, but Larry also
landed two clean jabs and a cuffing right hand



(I cant see how Spoon could of won this round) Holmes

Round 2

Clearer round for Holmes, Spoon landed an early
body shot but he was mainly inactive, he was too
busy catching & Holmes was connecting a little more with flicking jabs
that were mostly missed/slipped/blocked in round 1, he also landed
a nice body shot and caught Spoon coming on with a nice right hand counter, it
was one of the best punches of the fight so far.




(Clearer for Spoon) Spoon

Round 3

Nice body shot from Spoon, he also landed a looping right hand towards the end, Holmes jabs were being caught by Spoon for the most part.



(Spoon round although very close, could of gone either way) Spoon

Round 4

Close round, hard to score, Spoon landed nice counter right hand, but then Larry started
Landing some nice jabs, then Spoon came back landing nice with jab(clean)himself, Larry was again landing
his jab towards the end though, he also threw a 1-2 and landed a cuffing right hand,
Spoon landed a jab and a body shot towards the end.




Round 5 Holmes

Spoon largely inactive aside from a few body shots, Larry landed a couple of good 1-2 combinations
in this round.



Round 6 Spoon

Spoon landed chopping right hand early in the round and was able to slip some shot to the body in,
he also scored well with the jab, he dropped of the pace towards the end but still managed to sneak
a body shot in and a little right hand.



Round 7 Spoon

Witherspoon landed solidly to the body and head


Round 8 Holmes

Holmes controlled this round with his jab and scored some nice right hands towards the end, one of

Spoons least effective rounds.



Round 9 Spoon

Spoon looked on the verge of stopping Holmes, great heart shown by Holmes but an obvious Spoon round



Roun 10 Holmes


More active controlled the round


Round 11 Holmes

Holmes with the jab



Round 12 Holmes

Clear round for Holmes, he landed the jab and a significant number of right hands.



Holmes was 33 at the time.



6 rounds a peice, draw.

mickey malone
10-16-2009, 02:09 PM
I've been trying to download this fight with no success.. Has anyone got it?

Obama
10-16-2009, 11:03 PM
I've been trying to download this fight with no success.. Has anyone got it?

My website, video download section, obama's megauploads

joe strong
10-16-2009, 11:44 PM
I think tim won the fight.amazing considering tim had what 15 pro bouts at the time.

SugarRayRealist
10-25-2009, 01:54 AM
Hi to all.. I've read many posts recently, inferring that Carl Williams came the closest to beating Holmes, pre Spinks, of course..

I'd say an argument can be made that Terrible Tim gave him a harder fight over 12 than The Truth did over 15.. Many observers at the time, including myself, thought that Tim won.. And lets not forget, this was against the more prime 1983 version of Holmes..

Be interesting to read your thoughts and opinions...
Is it just me? Or was 'Spoon' robbed?...

Terrible Tim Witherspoon definitely won his fight against Larry Holmes. I remember watching it and thinking that Witherspoon would win; only to have Holmes be announced as the winner. I thought it was a terrible decision because Tim outfought and outboxed Holmes. Witherspoon went on to win the title but he was cheated out of a win against Larry Holmes.

JAB5239
10-25-2009, 02:41 AM
Terrible Tim Witherspoon definitely won his fight against Larry Holmes. I remember watching it and thinking that Witherspoon would win; only to have Holmes be announced as the winner. I thought it was a terrible decision because Tim outfought and outboxed Holmes. Witherspoon went on to win the title but he was cheated out of a win against Larry Holmes.

He definitely deserved a rematch as did Carl Williams, in my opinion.

Slimey Limey
10-26-2009, 07:45 AM
Probably. Larry "beez" one of the more overrated champions since he had more gift decisions than any other HW champ I can think of.

Benncollinsaad
10-26-2009, 07:57 AM
Probably. Larry "beez" one of the more overrated champions since he had more gift decisions than any other HW champ I can think of.

Right on!;) Witherspoon and Williams especially. Even the Berbick fight was very close, but I think he just edged that by a couple points.

Dynamite Kid
10-26-2009, 08:08 AM
Right on!;) Witherspoon and Williams especially. Even the Berbick fight was very close, but I think he just edged that by a couple points.

...........................

Princemanspopa
10-26-2009, 08:14 AM
I'm afraid I am going to have to agree with DK here(trust me,I don't want to) in assuming that Benncollinsaad has never even viewed the three fights which he just shared his opinions on.