View Full Version : Mike Tyson under-appreciated


sonnyboyx2
10-13-2009, 08:31 AM
IMO i find it quite amazing how Mike Tyson does not get his due respect from internet boxing forum members.. Mike Tyson was one of the greatest of prizefighters, everything about his life was what you would expect from a prizefighter, the way he won the title at 20yrs of age and unified it 12 months later, how he avoided not a single fighter in his drive to be the greatest fighter of his era, one of the greatest power-punchers in boxing history if not thee best with almost half of his career fights ending in the very first round, Mike Tyson is the fighter who generated incredible interest in the sport of boxing with Pay-Per-View TV companies charging the viewer 10+ to watch this sporting phenominon live` in action, us the fans never cried in disappointment if Tyson as he often did blew his opponent away in the opening round, Tyson only ever fought `the best opponents` unlike the so called champions since.. Yet his career was shortlived with his rape conviction followed by his incarceration which spelled the end of a legend.. Yet today its not difficult to find many many so called boxing fans on forums `sticking the knife into Mike Tyson`trashing & ridiculing his achievements, claiming some fighters would beat him 10 times out of 10 if they fought, yet back in the late 80s Legendary trainers like Futch, Tocco & Arcel all said Tyson would be a match for any fighter in history...Ho how the mighty have fallen...IMO Mike Tyson was and always will be one of the greatest fighters who ever lived, and i will never ever forget the night he KOd Larry Holmes and Holmes words in the ring that night when interviewed after the fight by Reg Gutteridge, he said,"i could never have beaten Mike Tyson"... wether he could or he could not is a different matter...in his heyday Mike Tyson was a prizefighter and champion right out of the top draw.

MANGLER
10-13-2009, 08:49 AM
BS opinions don't reflect those of boxing fans on the whole. Tyson overall fell short and disappointed. But his prime run was ill enuf to make him a legend. Dude is the man.

mickey malone
10-13-2009, 10:37 AM
85-89 Tyson was incredibly destructive, and I would be hard pressed to find another ATG who could have contained him during this spell.. He made rag dolls out of Berbick, Biggs, Williams, Bruno, Thomas, Tubbs, Holmes & Spinks, with only Holmes managing to win a round.. As much as I admire the skills of both Klits, this version of Tyson would drown them..

Dynamite Kid
10-13-2009, 11:54 AM
Tyson does not get his props because the are so many die hard Tyson fans out there that exaggerate how good he was and make up excuses for his shortcomings. Look at how you react when you feel someone is overvaluing Lennox Lewis.

Im not taking a jab at you but you cant seriously say that you have unbalanced considered approach regarding Lewis, so why would you expect anyone else to be any different.

For the record id say his resume gets underrated and people do trot out the he would of lost to this guy 10 out of 10 times, but by the same token those opinions are neutered by the die hard Tyson fans who have no grasp on reality and cant accept anything less than Tyson was the best HW ever in his prime.

lee majors
10-13-2009, 12:01 PM
Once you take into consideration that most Boxingscene posters weren't old enough to fully appreciate what Mike Tyson was/is than you'll begin to understand why he doesn't get the props he deserves. Youtube can't replace the event that was Mike Tyson fight or recreate the atmosphere that surrounded it. If Mike didn't come along, I question if this forum would even exists. To many, Mike is just the crazy guy with the tattoo on his face. They don't understand that Mike is the most universally fear physical specimen ever to walk this earth. Mike isn't the only one that gets overlooked.

Hell, Pernell Whitaker is about as unappreciated as it gets. Sweet P was the face of HBO boxing for years. I went from elementary school, through high school, all the way to college with Sweet P being the 1 p4p and he pretty much doesn't exist on these forums. He ruled the 90's and was HBO's top dog even above Roy after he beat Chavez. Arguably the most skilled fighter of the past 25 year is a nobody on what is supposedly the #1 boxing forum on the net. WTF!

sonnyboyx2
10-13-2009, 02:02 PM
Once you take into consideration that most Boxingscene posters weren't old enough to fully appreciate what Mike Tyson was/is than you'll begin to understand why he doesn't get the props he deserves. Youtube can't replace the event that was Mike Tyson fight or recreate the atmosphere that surrounded it. If Mike didn't come along, I question if this forum would even exists. To many, Mike is just the crazy guy with the tattoo on his face. They don't understand that Mike is the most universally fear physical specimen ever to walk this earth. Mike isn't the only one that gets overlooked.

Hell, Pernell Whitaker is about as unappreciated as it gets. Sweet P was the face of HBO boxing for years. I went from elementary school, through high school, all the way to college with Sweet P being the 1 p4p and he pretty much doesn't exist on these forums. He ruled the 90's and was HBO's top dog even above Roy after he beat Chavez. Arguably the most skilled fighter of the past 25 year is a nobody on what is supposedly the #1 boxing forum on the net. WTF!

very true.. two great fighters

Bushidō
10-13-2009, 02:13 PM
There WILL never be another Tyson

Princemanspopa
10-14-2009, 08:08 PM
I agree completely,you get the odd newb who think they know something about boxing and will claim Tyson never fought or beat anyone of note,that he was overrated blah blah blah.

Tyson fought virtually every top heavyweight of his prime and beat them very convincingly.

Every fighter starts off with bums as did Tyson,but when Tyson made the step up he was still defeating the top heavyweights as easily as he was knocking out the scrubs and journeyman earlier in his career.

Tyson's resume stands at

James "Bonecrusher" Smith
Tony Tucker
Trevor Berbick
Pinklon Thomas
Larry Holmes
Michael Spinks
Tony Tubbs
Carl Williams
Frank Bruno 2x
Razor Ruddock 2x
Andrew Golota

All but two of those victories came just before Tyson was locked up for the rape charge at the age of 26.

Tyson was a fighting machine,blessed with extraordinary speed and power and mixed defense with offense as well as any fighter there ever has been.His prime was short and he blew it all but he made as great an impact in those three to four years as well as any fighter in history.He most certainly is a legendary fighter and personality and he most certainly is a top ten heavyweight.

I have always and will always be a fan of Kid Dynamite Mike "Gerard" Tyson.

Mugwump
10-14-2009, 08:53 PM
I agree completely,you get the odd newb who think they know something about boxing and will claim Tyson never fought or beat anyone of note,that he was overrated blah blah blah.

Tyson fought virtually every top heavyweight of his prime and beat them very convincingly.

Every fighter starts off with bums as did Tyson,but when Tyson made the step up he was still defeating the top heavyweights as easily as he was knocking out the scrubs and journeyman earlier in his career.

Tyson's resume stands at

James "Bonecrusher" Smith
Tony Tucker
Trevor Berbick
Pinklon Thomas
Larry Holmes
Michael Spinks
Tony Tubbs
Carl Williams
Frank Bruno 2x
Razor Ruddock 2x
Andrew Golota

Which is hardly a who's who of boxing legends. And the first fighter that stood up to him pretty much ended his career.

Princemanspopa
10-14-2009, 09:01 PM
Which is hardly a who's who of boxing legends. And the first fighter that stood up to him pretty much ended his career.

You are a moron and just exposed yourself as your stereotypical tyson critic,who can never find his way out of his own little box filled with cliches.

I gave a list of the top tier heavyweights of whom Tyson beat.I don't care much for Larry Holmes but he is regarded as a legend as is Michael Spinks but you have absolutely no idea who Michael Spinks is nor of his exploits and accomplishments as a lightheavyweight.

You offer nothing to this world or this forum,end your existence on both accounts.

Mugwump
10-14-2009, 09:08 PM
Spinks
Holmes
Foreman
Frazier x 3
Norton x 3
Shavers
Liston x 2
Lyle

is a list of "TOP TIER" heavies.

James "Bonecrusher" Smith
Tony Tucker
Trevor Berbick
Pinklon Thomas
Larry Holmes
Michael Spinks
Tony Tubbs
Carl Williams
Frank Bruno 2x
Razor Ruddock 2x
Andrew Golota

is not.

masta
10-14-2009, 09:13 PM
Tyson's overall career wasn't an all-time great one but he did accomplish a good amount in his prime.

The good old 'could have been' applies to Tyson.

Princemanspopa
10-14-2009, 09:15 PM
Posting Ali's rusume in comparison to any other heavyweight is stupid and pointless as everyone is aware of his resume and it's that resume why Ali is regarded as the greatest heavyweight of all time,by the way you forgot Jerry Quarry and Floyd Patterson on that list but you know nothing about boxing to really have any idea on who these two fighters are,and Leon Spinks a top tier heavyweight? Are you serious? Lol,what a clodge.Leon never accomplished **** other than catch Ali at the right time,all the heavyweights I listed were far greater than Leon Spinks.

Jiddu Dali
10-14-2009, 09:15 PM
I agree completely,you get the odd newb who think they know something about boxing and will claim Tyson never fought or beat anyone of note,that he was overrated blah blah blah.

Tyson fought virtually every top heavyweight of his prime and beat them very convincingly.

Every fighter starts off with bums as did Tyson,but when Tyson made the step up he was still defeating the top heavyweights as easily as he was knocking out the scrubs and journeyman earlier in his career.

Tyson's resume stands at

James "Bonecrusher" Smith
Tony Tucker
Trevor Berbick
Pinklon Thomas
Larry Holmes
Michael Spinks
Tony Tubbs
Carl Williams
Frank Bruno 2x
Razor Ruddock 2x
Andrew Golota

All but two of those victories came just before Tyson was locked up for the rape charge at the age of 26.

Tyson was a fighting machine,blessed with extraordinary speed and power and mixed defense with offense as well as any fighter there ever has been.His prime was short and he blew it all but he made as great an impact in those three to four years as well as any fighter in history.He most certainly is a legendary fighter and personality and he most certainly is a top ten heavyweight.

I have always and will always be a fan of Kid Dynamite Mike "Gerard" Tyson.

He lost to buster douglas...

Tyson in his prime was a BEAST yes...but HE LOST TO BUSTER DOUGLAS...

any fighter that would stand up to Tyson beat him...not opinion..Fact

he was great for about 5 years..thats about it

Princemanspopa
10-14-2009, 09:21 PM
He lost to buster douglas...

Tyson in his prime was a BEAST yes...but HE LOST TO BUSTER DOUGLAS...

any fighter that would stand up to Tyson beat him...not opinion..Fact

he was great for about 5 years..thats about it

That's not a fact you silly cunt.Razor Ruddock stood up to him and took two beatings in return.Five years is actually a long time,you name me one fighter who was great after such a lengthy absence from the ring and don't claim Ray Robinson because he wasn't.Fighters are never the same after returning from such a long layoff - Ali,Tyson,Louis,Robinson,Leonard none of these men were the same so don't spout such utter nonsense next time,Idiot.

The Iron Man
10-14-2009, 10:13 PM
Tyson gets alot a stick for losing to Holyfield, but noone really takes this into consideration:

After a 3 year lay off in prison he had fought 8 rounds of boxing against, McNeeley, Buster Mathis Jr, Frank Bruno and Bruce Seldon.

Whoever uses the old nutshell of "anyone who stood up to Tyson beat him" hasnt seen all of Tysons fights.

Benny Leonard
10-14-2009, 10:32 PM
Which is hardly a who's who of boxing legends. And the first fighter that stood up to him pretty much ended his career.

You are one of the parrots people talk about.

Seriously, the "first person that stood up to him"?

Have you ever watched his fights?

People came at him and they changed their mind after they got hurt because they went into defense mode which tends to happen when you are getting beat up.

I guess it helped that he was **** both mentally and physically that night when he fought Douglas. Yeah, that's standing up to someone. Tyson's fault for not being in shape but that only proves that Tyson wasn't good when he wasn't prepared...like all boxers tend to be.

Tyson ended his career on his own doing by...and I'll quote Floyd Patterson's words after he lost to Douglas and upon being asked to give advise to Tyson..."Remember what got you there."


With your way of thinking, maybe the whole thing with Ali was just an illusion and he was beaten the moment somebody didn't buy into his mouth/words that tended to psyche people out, but Men like Frazier, Spinks, Norton, Holmes and Berbick it didn't work on. Just laugh or shut your ears off and you can beat "The Butterfly"

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
THE SCHOLAR CONSIDERS:
An Interview With Boxing Historian Herbert G. Goldman

By Katherine Dunn



Another man-- a shame what***8217;s happened to him, and I***8217;d say the only man who could have beaten him eventually did beat him, and that was himself***8212;Mike Tyson. Now Mike Tyson***8217;s style***8212;talking about a boxer learning from boxers of the past***8212;and it***8217;s amazing that more has not been made of this. Mike Tyson***8217;s style is Jack Dempsey, completely. The way he comes in quickly with a bob and weave, ducks down low and comes up with a smashing left hook to the larger man***8217;s head and face, that***8217;s Jack Dempsey. When Tyson turned pro he even came into the ring with the sides of his head shaven in emulation of Jack Dempsey. There is no doubt about this. No socks, low shoes, black trunks. This was a young man who studied old fight films like crazy. And he found that the style of Jack Dempsey was more conducive to his own abilities than any other style. And that***8217;s what he developed.

KD -- I always felt that Tyson was a small heavyweight and he was often misunderstood and under-rated in terms of the level of genuine skill that he brought into the ring.

HG -- That***8217;s right. A lot of people did not understand what they were watching when they saw Mike Tyson. He was not some slugger as such.

KD -- He was not a super-power in terms of his physical strength

HG -- Oh no. One thing about Mike Tyson that I don***8217;t think a lot of people understand because of, let***8217;s say his psychological-social problems, a lot of people think he***8217;s some kind of stupid brute. He***8217;s not. He happens to be, as far as I can see-- and I don***8217;t know the man but I have had a couple of conversations with him-- an intelligent young man. He***8217;s probably one of the most intelligent fighters, certainly in terms of boxing, that we***8217;ve seen. His emulation of the Jack Dempsey***8217;s style. His knowledge of boxing history is considerable, by the way, and when you listen to him, this is not a stupid man. He***8217;s a very misunderstood boxer, and people also do not understand that his skills eroded after a certain period. People will say Ah he was never anything,. They start to question him all the way back. No. He peaked when he knocked out Michael Spinks in the first round. But beginning about a year after that he really started to go down hill.

KD -- That was a period when he had separated from Rooney, his remaining D***8217;Amato trainer, and he no longer had a real trainer who understood his style.

HG -- Right. Tyson was a fighter who needed a certain edge. He needed to be on edge. And when he lost that he lost a tremendous amount. He still has too much power and over-all ability for ninety or ninety-five percent of all the fighters out there. There***8217;s no question about that. But at his peak I can***8217;t imagine***8212;and I say this with all respect and deference for Evander Holyfield***8212;but at his peak I can***8217;t imagine Tyson being defeated by Holyfield. At his peak he would have been a terrific fight even for the peak Muhammad Ali.




http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/w42x-kd.htm

Benny Leonard
10-14-2009, 10:38 PM
Tyson gets alot a stick for losing to Holyfield, but noone really takes this into consideration:

After a 3 year lay off in prison he had fought 8 rounds of boxing against, McNeeley, Buster Mathis Jr, Frank Bruno and Bruce Seldon.

Whoever uses the old nutshell of "anyone who stood up to Tyson beat him" hasnt seen all of Tysons fights.

Besides Tyson not having the tools to be a fighter anymore...Holyfield said Tyson hadn't been hit yet (since he got out of prison) which is what Holy planned to do with him....hit him hard and rough him up. I think this is also why Holy blew himself up physically.

Unlike Ali who after a 3 year layoff trained his body back in boxing shape by taking punishment during sparring, Tyson didn't do any of that. Just another reason why Ali is smarter than Tyson but not many made like Ali.
Tyson relied to much on Rooney and it cost him. Ali was a General and Tyson was a Soldier.

Benny Leonard
10-14-2009, 10:45 PM
He lost to buster douglas...

Tyson in his prime was a BEAST yes...but HE LOST TO BUSTER DOUGLAS...

any fighter that would stand up to Tyson beat him...not opinion..Fact

he was great for about 5 years..thats about it

Prime is marked down when you are still at your best...still have the tools that got you to the top. Tyson wasn't the same fighter by the time he got to Douglas. Mike Tyson said he was planning on retiring after Spinks. And in a way, he did just that by getting rid of what got him there...Kevin Rooney, training and motivation.


Simple question: Can that version of Tyson that fought Douglas beat any version of Tyson from his fight with Berbick to Spinks? Can that version even come close to beating him?

Even the Tyson that showed up against Ruddock would get beaten by a younger version of himself. Why? Because he actually trained, motivated and had a game-plan to win.
It's also the knock on Tyson that I use: Rooney was key for him. Rooney trained him, built up his confidence, guided him through fights, and game-planned for him. Now, many, if not all Boxers need trainers that are right for them, so it isn't a total knock on Tyson, but Tyson wasn't like say, Ali, who was mostly his own man and came up with his own strategy (even though he was said to have asked D'Amato's opinion from time to time as well)...and could mostly train himself and motivate himself. But Ali still needed Dundee and Dundee came in handy plenty of times, but Ali was less reliable on Dundee than Tyson was with Rooney. Plus, again, the smarts with Ali made sure he kept Dundee unlike Tyson who got rid of Rooney.




By the way, besides other fighters coming at him, Ruddock was by far the top fighter that wasn't scared at all of Tyson. So much so that Ruddock used to talk right back at Tyson. And in fights, threw bombs at him even when he was getting bombed back.

It still takes talent to beat Tyson because if it was that simple, just attack him, just stand up to him, he would have lost way before he threw it away against Douglas.
Also remember that Tyson wanted the rematch with Douglas and Douglas refused.

Verstyle
10-14-2009, 11:27 PM
The one's that Tyson probably don't know too much about him in fighting, his style, achievements and dedication in the 80's. There are reasons why many do not do Tyson's style, too hard to do and takes a lot of dedication.

His achievements alone are great. He earned his title shots and earned and achieved them quickly within 2 years. Not many have done that. So for the ppl that talk down on him I usually just laugh and go on. I know and what I feel and that's in my heart. Real talk.

Benny Leonard
10-14-2009, 11:33 PM
The one's that Tyson probably don't know too much about him in fighting, his style, achievements and dedication in the 80's. There are reasons why many do not do Tyson's style, too hard to do and takes a lot of dedication.

His achievements alone are great. He earned his title shots and earned and achieved them quickly within 2 years. Not many have done that. So for the ppl that talk down on him I usually just laugh and go on. I know and what I feel and that's in my heart. Real talk.

The funniest thing of all is that people are acting like Tyson was Godzilla but yet, Tyson was the one looking up to his opponents at just a 5'11, 215 pound fighter who was smaller than almost everyone he fought. He was a "small" HW in a big boy era. But yet we will give massive credit to smaller guys in lower weight divisions who move up 5 pounds as doing something incredible. But not to Tyson because he was a "HW." Being 5'11, 215 pounds going up against much taller and heavier opponents requires you to be in tip-top shape to win.

When he was well trained, to get the advantage back, he was aggressive and being aggressive early on put the bigger guys in check...and he wore them down with body-shots to take away their weight and height advantage. That requires you to be in excellent condition and also have a game-plan of attack.

Verstyle
10-14-2009, 11:36 PM
He lost to buster douglas...

Tyson in his prime was a BEAST yes...but HE LOST TO BUSTER DOUGLAS...

any fighter that would stand up to Tyson beat him...not opinion..Fact

he was great for about 5 years..thats about it

I guess you've never seen the Bruno I fight, Ruddock I and II, Botha fights. Know some **** before spewing out bull****. FACT.

Verstyle
10-14-2009, 11:41 PM
The funniest thing of all is that people are acting like Tyson was Godzilla but yet, Tyson was the one looking up to his opponents at just a 5'11, 215 pound fighter who was smaller than almost everyone he fought. He was a "small" HW in a big boy era. But yet we will give massive credit to smaller guys in lower weight divisions who move up 5 pounds as doing something incredible. But not to Tyson because he was a "HW." Being 5'11, 215 pounds going up against much taller and heavier opponents requires you to be in tip-top shape to win.

When he was well trained, to get the advantage back, he was aggressive and being aggressive early on put the bigger guys in check...and he wore them down with body-shots to take away their weight and height advantage. That requires you to be in excellent condition and also have a game-plan of attack.
Exactly. It's wasn't just a all out onslaught versus his opponents. Not a lot of ppl saw game plans when he fought at times. Tyson facing some guys about 10 to 15 pounds heavier then him would be crazy if Manny did that right now or Mayweather and dominated. Some just can't get passed it. **** happens.Haha

them_apples
10-15-2009, 07:44 AM
IMO i find it quite amazing how Mike Tyson does not get his due respect from internet boxing forum members.. Mike Tyson was one of the greatest of prizefighters, everything about his life was what you would expect from a prizefighter, the way he won the title at 20yrs of age and unified it 12 months later, how he avoided not a single fighter in his drive to be the greatest fighter of his era, one of the greatest power-punchers in boxing history if not thee best with almost half of his career fights ending in the very first round, Mike Tyson is the fighter who generated incredible interest in the sport of boxing with Pay-Per-View TV companies charging the viewer 10+ to watch this sporting phenominon live` in action, us the fans never cried in disappointment if Tyson as he often did blew his opponent away in the opening round, Tyson only ever fought `the best opponents` unlike the so called champions since.. Yet his career was shortlived with his rape conviction followed by his incarceration which spelled the end of a legend.. Yet today its not difficult to find many many so called boxing fans on forums `sticking the knife into Mike Tyson`trashing & ridiculing his achievements, claiming some fighters would beat him 10 times out of 10 if they fought, yet back in the late 80s Legendary trainers like Futch, Tocco & Arcel all said Tyson would be a match for any fighter in history...Ho how the mighty have fallen...IMO Mike Tyson was and always will be one of the greatest fighters who ever lived, and i will never ever forget the night he KOd Larry Holmes and Holmes words in the ring that night when interviewed after the fight by Reg Gutteridge, he said,"i could never have beaten Mike Tyson"... wether he could or he could not is a different matter...in his heyday Mike Tyson was a prizefighter and champion right out of the top draw.


yea most people appreciate him. I try to find a good medium. BS members tend to be extremely biased towards one side so take it with a grain of salt.

Dynamite Kid
10-15-2009, 08:04 AM
Tyson gets alot a stick for losing to Holyfield, but noone really takes this into consideration:

After a 3 year lay off in prison he had fought 8 rounds of boxing against, McNeeley, Buster Mathis Jr, Frank Bruno and Bruce Seldon.

Whoever uses the old nutshell of "anyone who stood up to Tyson beat him" hasnt seen all of Tysons fights.

Point is mute. Tyson fans always want to make out that the Holyfield win does not stick because Mike was apparently past his best, guess what? so was Evander Holyfield, infact more so imo. When someone tries to do down Holyfield's win by saying Mike was past it you know they are looking for excuses, Holyfield was 34 at the time and been in many many many wars. Tyson had only been in a tough fight with Douglas and he lost that fight. Please dont mention the Ruddock fight because Ruddock did not ask questions of Mike he just took a beating for as long as he could and hung in there, Mike was a great on top fighter but he fell apart when he was losing.

No one can name me two fights other than the Douglas/Holyfield fights where Mike was not on top and being asked serious questions of by his opponent. It only happened twice and he lost both times, coincidence? no. There isn't a fight like that in Tyson's career were he is not in the ascendancy and has to suck it up, if you disagree you are lying or just trying to exaggerate to make your point.

Facts are these, Mike Tyson lost to Holyfield legitimately with no excuses when they were both not in their prime, less so Holyfield imo.

sonnyboyx2
10-15-2009, 08:32 AM
Point is mute. Tyson fans always want to make out that the Holyfield win does not stick because Mike was apparently past his best, guess what? so was Evander Holyfield, infact more so imo. When someone tries to do down Holyfield's win by saying Mike was past it you know they are looking for excuses, Holyfield was 34 at the time and been in many many many wars. Tyson had only been in a tough fight with Douglas and he lost that fight. Please dont mention the Ruddock fight because Ruddock did not ask questions of Mike he just took a beating for as long as he could and hung in their, Mike was a great on top fighter but he fell apart when he was losing.

No one can name me two fights other than the Douglas/Holyfield fights where Mike was not on top and being asked serious questions of by his opponent. It only happened twice and he lost both times, coincidence? no. There isn't a fight like that in Tyson's career were he is not in the ascendancy and has to suck it up, if you disagree you are lying or just trying to exaggerate to make your point.

Facts are these, Mike Tyson lost to Holyfield legitimately with no excuses when they were both not in their prime, less so Holyfield imo.

good points... i actually think Tysons greatest ever performance was Holyfield (1)..after that fight it was over for Tyson, he "Downed Tools" he never trained or thought of himself as a serious contender, his defeats by Williams, Lewis & McBride he was turning up for the money...

IMO i dont think Tyson could have ever beaten Holyfield.. i also think Williams, Lewis & McBride would all be blown away within 2rds by pre 96 Tyson

BritishBoxing92
10-15-2009, 08:39 AM
Mike tyson in my eyes is my 1st all time favouraite....ive read about him, watched his documentaries and films and researched alot into him....he truly was a worthy and well deserved champ and he was definately a M.O.A.T which means Meanest Of All Time......respect to his enemies such as Lewis and Holyfield etc they were great champs too....

Dynamite Kid
10-15-2009, 09:55 AM
good points... i actually think Tysons greatest ever performance was Holyfield (1)..after that fight it was over for Tyson, he "Downed Tools" he never trained or thought of himself as a serious contender, his defeats by Williams, Lewis & McBride he was turning up for the money...

IMO i dont think Tyson could have ever beaten Holyfield.. i also think Williams, Lewis & McBride would all be blown away within 2rds by pre 96 Tyson

Yeah this is how i see it.....

Tyson was done after the Holyfield fight. He looked like a shot fighter against Lewis and the thing that stood out to me more than anything about his fight with Lewis was, he had lost something that made him so successful over the years and what people tend to overlook, he had lost that remarkable foot speed that allowed him to shuffle foward and close the distance quickly so he could get his shots off before taking a counter when he stepped into range, if you watch the Lewis fight he could not get his feet into position to let any shots go because Lewis controlled the distance, he did not have the footspeed anymore and ended up getting picked apart because he was stook in no mans lands land (long range)

Amongst other obvious things which had declined to, his footspeed always seemed vital to his style imo.

sonnyboyx2
10-15-2009, 10:18 AM
Yeah this is how i see it.....

Tyson was done after the Holyfield fight. He looked like a shot fighter against Lewis and the thing that stood out to me more than anything about his fight with Lewis was, he had lost something that made him so successful over the years and what people tend to overlook, he had lost that remarkable foot speed that allowed him to shuffle foward and close the distance quickly so he could get his shots off before taking a counter when he stepped into range, if you watch the Lewis fight he could not get his feet into position to let any shots go because Lewis controlled the distance, he did not have the footspeed anymore and ended up getting picked apart because he was stook in no mans lands land (long range)

Amongst other obvious things which had declined to, his footspeed always seemed vital to his style imo.

yes you are right.. like all fighters, once they lose their legs they become beatable, Muhammad Ali & Roy Jones are examples... When Floyd Mayweather loses his legs he will be badly beaten, all fighters lose their legs during their 30s

Ziggy Stardust
10-15-2009, 10:36 AM
I guess you've never seen the Bruno I fight, Ruddock I and II, Botha fights. Know some **** before spewing out bull****. FACT.

The Pinklon Thomas fight is another good one to watch: The commentaters had Thomas ahead on the cards at the time of the stoppage.

Poet

Benny Leonard
10-15-2009, 11:50 AM
This article sums up why many got frustrated with Tyson



Brooks always held out hope for Iron Mike

http://espn.go.com/columns/wojnarowski_adrian/1317765.html

The Iron Man
10-15-2009, 11:29 PM
Point is mute. Tyson fans always want to make out that the Holyfield win does not stick because Mike was apparently past his best, guess what? so was Evander Holyfield, infact more so imo. When someone tries to do down Holyfield's win by saying Mike was past it you know they are looking for excuses, Holyfield was 34 at the time and been in many many many wars.

You obviously do not see my point, Im not dicrediting Holyfield im saying what Tysons situation was and he was much worse of the Evander who couldnt of been that much past his prime since he went on to have to tough fights with Lewis and Beat Moorer.

Dynamite Kid
10-16-2009, 08:51 AM
You obviously do not see my point, Im not dicrediting Holyfield im saying what Tysons situation was and he was much worse of the Evander who couldnt of been that much past his prime since he went on to have to tough fights with Lewis and Beat Moorer.

I think thats the problem i do get your point. You are trying to dilute Holyfield's win by making out Mike was more past it than Holyfield.


He should of lost to Lewis twice and should of lost to Ruiz 3 times because he robbed Ruiz the first time and clearly got a gift in the draw with Lewis, he went onto get Boxing lessons from Larry Donald, Byrd, Toney. Also before beating Tyson he got KTFO out by Bowe and looked terrible against Moorer, that is why Tyson was favourite to win. That Tyson win was a smoke screen, it was a case of the great Champion who was a better fighter well all said and done having one great fight left in him.


You would prolly have people believe that Holyfield is not shot now because he able to be competitive with Valuev :pat: News flash, Holyfield is a better fighter than Mike Tyson, he has better Boxing skills, he is more intelligent and that is why he is still fighting and not get destroyed by the likes of Danny Willliams, McBride.

Maybe you should watch more of Holyfield's fight than you do Tyson's because he has been in many many more wars than Tyson and took more punishment, Mike Tyson just aint as good as Holyfield and that Tyson that lost to Holyfield lost for that reason, even when he had as much if not more left than Evander. You need to come to terms with reality and and accept that he lost fair and square to Holyfield, that the excuse Mike was past it is a mute point.


I do love the way use you use Mike's comeback fights to make out he did not get the right preparation but then you forget to mention that Holyfield looked worse against Moorer & he got KTFO!!! against Bowe, typical deluded Tyson fan.

GJC
10-18-2009, 08:33 PM
Which is hardly a who's who of boxing legends. And the first fighter that stood up to him pretty much ended his career.

Hmmm whilst Douglas fought the right fight against Tyson which a lot didn't, I think we had seen the best of Tyson by 1989.
I think he was there to be taken in the first Bruno fight but Bruno didn't have enough.
After prison Tyson was pretty much a 5 round fighter.
Also think Douglas on that night against a far from peak Tyson would have given a lot of ATG's problems.
Re Tyson being under appreciated, he probably is by some but over appreciated by others so probably evens out.
My biggest bugbear with Tyson was he never developed many inside fighting skills which I think would have helped him and didn't really develop, he was pretty much the same fighter in his 30th fight as he was in his 1st.
That said it would be a pretty stingy person who didn't make him a top 10 ATG HW.

The Iron Man
10-18-2009, 08:59 PM
I think thats the problem i do get your point. You are trying to dilute Holyfield's win by making out Mike was more past it than Holyfield.


Well thats not my point, so really there is no reason for me to comment on the rest of your post. Was it Prime Tyson V Prime Holy? no, was Tyson more shot that Evander at that time? i think so. But that version of Holyfield would have given any Tyson problems, i honestly believe a 1991 Holyfield would have had more problems or even lost to Tyson in 1996/7.

Dynamite Kid
10-18-2009, 09:04 PM
Well thats not my point, so really there is no reason for me to comment on the rest of your post. Was it Prime Tyson V Prime Holy? no, was Tyson more shot that Evander at that time? i think so. But that version of Holyfield would have given any Tyson problems, i honestly believe a 1991 Holyfield would have had more problems or even lost to Tyson in 1996/7.

was Tyson more shot that Evander at that time? i think so.

Says it all about your agenda son. You can sugar coat all you want i know what your tried to do right there, its does not wash, facts are facts, Holy was knocked out and looked terrible before the Tyson fight & he had a checkered record after it.

Typical Tyson fan who refuses to accept reality and commonsense.

Bushidō
10-19-2009, 06:23 PM
Lets create a Frazier underapperciated threaddddd

Boogie Nights
10-19-2009, 07:06 PM
im not even gonna sweat responding to the one guy who's been doing all the bashing in this thread. ill say this to Kid Dynamite, he needs to straighten out couple of his issues. And by golly he has quite a few.

he's the one who's been going out of his way with all that drivel he keeps soiling in not one, or two, but numerous tyson threads. I love it how he says there's no point arguing with fanboys, nuthuggers and the like, yet it is he who voluntairly comes into the thread to drop his anti-tyson bombs. If you're impotent to all the tyson clan boys, why stir up **** in the first place? Something tells me it gets your dick hard, chappie!

truth is, all that bs about 'putting them in their place' is, well, BS. You're just as worse as the groupies that overate him, only you're stuck in the reverse gear severely underating him. Read your own poetry.

ive noticved this about you, anyone who slightly makes an arguement in favor of tyson you label them a nuthugger. Issues, son? i think you have some or plenty.

the excuses may get old after a while but they all are validated. He was in poor shape for douglas, you know it, they know it, the public knows it, and tyson himself confirmed it. He wasted his prime in prison. He came back had a couple of bs fights with paper champions and regained his title, and lost it again. what else is there more to talk about?

you just enjoy the drama on this site.

that is all./