View Full Version : Chavez vs Taylor I - Who won?


Stoppage
10-10-2009, 07:29 PM
I was inspired to make this thread after someone said Chavez deserved to win the fight while I thought Taylor deserved it. So who won, in your opinion?

Benncollinsaad
10-10-2009, 07:33 PM
I was inspired to make this thread after someone said Chavez deserved to win the fight while I thought Taylor deserved it. So who won, in your opinion?

Someone? So now I'm "someone" in your eyes...:( :lol1:

Stoppage
10-10-2009, 07:36 PM
Someone? So now I'm "someone" in your eyes...:( :lol1:

Much like Voldemort, you're someone who must not be named.

Just kidding.

Benncollinsaad
10-10-2009, 07:38 PM
Much like Voldemort, you're someone who must not be named.

Just kidding.

Whats the difference between this fight and Bute-Andrade I?? Still many posters here claim Andrade shoulda won that fight. Well Chavez was dominating the last 3 rounds and he put Taylor away. Doesn't matter that Taylor managed to get up, he was clearly on shaky legs and was done. End of story!

Stoppage
10-10-2009, 07:45 PM
Whats the difference between this fight and Bute-Andrade I?? Still many posters here claim Andrade shoulda won that fight. Well Chavez was dominating the last 3 rounds and he put Taylor away. Doesn't matter that Taylor managed to get up, he was clearly on shaky legs and was done. End of story!

I disagree. No more damage could have been done to Taylor.

Here's a hypothetical. You're trying to shoot 100 basketballs into a net in 2 minutes and 99 of them go in. All of a sudden you're really tired and then they refuse to give you a basketball, even though you were just one away because they think you're too tired to shoot another one. Sort of the same thing.

BERNIE'S CORNER
10-10-2009, 07:46 PM
I was inspired to make this thread after someone said Chavez deserved to win the fight while I thought Taylor deserved it. So who won, in your opinion?


In my mind Taylor, deserved to win and was for 11 and 3/4 rounds but at the same time he was taking a severe beating. Even if he was given the few seconds by Steele to finish out the final round and won, he lost and was never the same. This fight will always be remembered and talked about!

-Hyperion-
10-10-2009, 07:50 PM
it was taylor fault for not answering.........he woulda won, but he lost fair and square(because of his and duvas **** up)

MANGLER
10-10-2009, 07:50 PM
Obviously JCC won cuz he got a KO. If this is a retread of whether or not Steele shoulda stopped it, I still say no. And if he hadn't Taylor coulda survived JCC walkin across the ring to get a decision. I doubt JCC coulda gotten in anotha shot by the time he stepped to him.

Benncollinsaad
10-10-2009, 07:55 PM
Obviously JCC won cuz he got a KO. If this is a retread of whether or not Steele shoulda stopped it, I still say no. And if he hadn't Taylor coulda survived JCC walkin across the ring to get a decision. I doubt JCC coulda gotten in anotha shot by the time he stepped to him.

Steele wasn't aware of the amount of time there was left. Ah hell, what can you do...I still think Chavez deserved to win because of his heart and will.

Stoppage
10-10-2009, 08:03 PM
Steele wasn't aware of the amount of time there was left. Ah hell, what can you do...I still think Chavez deserved to win because of his heart and will.

Gotta correct you on that. In the corner, there was a red light that would flash when there was the final ten seconds of the round. So, if he was counting to eight while the light was flashing, he should have known that there was like 2-3 seconds left.

Benncollinsaad
10-10-2009, 08:10 PM
Gotta correct you on that. In the corner, there was a red light that would flash when there was the final ten seconds of the round. So, if he was counting to eight while the light was flashing, he should have known that there was like 2-3 seconds left.

He said he didn't pay attention to it, so he didn't see it. Tough luck...I always thought Steele is a moron.

JAB5239
10-10-2009, 09:43 PM
Gotta correct you on that. In the corner, there was a red light that would flash when there was the final ten seconds of the round. So, if he was counting to eight while the light was flashing, he should have known that there was like 2-3 seconds left.

That doesn't mean he shouldn't have stopped the fight though. At that point Taylor was a beaten fighter and it was still within the 12 round limit of the fight. I've always agreed with Steele's call, though I can understand where the nay sayers are coming from too.

Dynamite Kid
10-10-2009, 10:23 PM
I never understood why Steele got so much flack for stopping Tyson's fight with Ruddock TBH, Ruddock was wobbling and might have been knocked unconscious if that fight had been allowed to go on. I think it was because of controversy from the Taylor fight that is got blown outta proportion.

Equinox
10-10-2009, 11:09 PM
damn i was such a big fan of taylor. always loved watching him fight, now that you remind me i wish another taylor is born into boxing.

billionaire
10-10-2009, 11:16 PM
taylor wouldve died if chavez got in one shot in the last 6 seconds.....chavez won end of story....

Stoppage
10-11-2009, 02:54 PM
taylor wouldve died if chavez got in one shot in the last 6 seconds.....chavez won end of story....

It was actually 2-3 seconds, and by the time he let the fight continue, Chavez wouldn't have even been able to reach Taylor, since he was on the other side of the ring.

jecko845
10-11-2009, 05:37 PM
I was inspired to make this thread after someone said Chavez deserved to win the fight while I thought Taylor deserved it. So who won, in your opinion?
There's no way Taylor should have lost that fight.Don King had alot to do with
''Steel'' stoping that fight.If anyone out there thinks that they should have stopped that fight,they did not see it live.Juanma had a chance last night to show his heart but Taylor was not allowed that chance cus of Don King.He won every round and for ''Steel'' to stopped that fight was wrong....

Yaman
10-11-2009, 05:47 PM
Taylor did not respond to Steele's questions. If he did respond to continue, it would have saved those extra wasted 5 seconds it took for Steele to ask him twice and wave the fight off. So Chavez would have had enough time to run at Taylor and land anywhere from 3 to 5 punches.
I always thought it was the correct call made.

JAB5239
10-11-2009, 06:39 PM
It was actually 2-3 seconds, and by the time he let the fight continue, Chavez wouldn't have even been able to reach Taylor, since he was on the other side of the ring.

True. But if he didn't stop the fight it would have cheated JCC out of a victory he earned through attrition. If Mel had responded the way he was supposed to and Steele stopped it I would be up in arms about it. He was in a different world and his stay in the hospital is evidence of the beating he took.

Thread Stealer
10-11-2009, 09:31 PM
Taylor didn't verbally respond so I don't argue too much about it. Of course if you want to argue about it, you can bring up the fact that Steele let Hearns go on against Barkley while being on shakier legs than Taylor had (although Hearns did verbally respond I believe).

Taylor's corner didn't do him any favors by telling him to be aggressive and fight it out in the 12th, neither did Duva by getting on the ring apron and apparently distracting Taylor.

And Taylor's team didn't do him any good a couple years later after Taylor's struggle in a title defense against Glenwood Brown, by matching him up with Terry Norris.

Win or lose, I doubt Taylor's career would be that much different anyway. He wouldn't have spent that much time at the top unless he was carefully matched. Weight problems at 140, too much talent at 147, and taking too much punishment in general.

Dynamite Kid
10-11-2009, 09:44 PM
Taylor didn't verbally respond so I don't argue too much about it. Of course if you want to argue about it, you can bring up the fact that Steele let Hearns go on against Barkley while being on shakier legs than Taylor had (although Hearns did verbally respond I believe).

Taylor's corner didn't do him any favors by telling him to be aggressive and fight it out in the 12th, neither did Duva by getting on the ring apron and apparently distracting Taylor.

And Taylor's team didn't do him any good a couple years later after Taylor's struggle in a title defense against Glenwood Brown, by matching him up with Terry Norris.

Win or lose, I doubt Taylor's career would be that much different anyway. He wouldn't have spent that much time at the top unless he was carefully matched. Weight problems at 140, too much talent at 147, and taking too much punishment in general.

Taylor's corner didn't do him any favors by telling him to be aggressive and fight it out in the 12th, neither did Duva by getting on the ring apron and apparently distracting Taylor.


Isn't stepping on to the ring apron a straight DQ anyway? if it is then Duva lost him the fight not Steele.

Stoppage
10-11-2009, 09:53 PM
Win or lose, I doubt Taylor's career would be that much different anyway. He wouldn't have spent that much time at the top unless he was carefully matched. Weight problems at 140, too much talent at 147, and taking too much punishment in general.

That might be true but it would certainly add to his legacy to have been the first man to beat JCC.

Bushidō
10-11-2009, 10:22 PM
Who deserved to win? Taylor.

Princemanspopa
10-11-2009, 10:30 PM
There's no way Taylor should have lost that fight.Don King had alot to do with
''Steel'' stoping that fight.If anyone out there thinks that they should have stopped that fight,they did not see it live.Juanma had a chance last night to show his heart but Taylor was not allowed that chance cus of Don King.He won every round and for ''Steel'' to stopped that fight was wrong....


Ooh look at me everyone,I watched HBO's Legendary night series and now I am a real boxing fan.I haven't actually watched the fight itself as someone with as short an attention span such as my own could never actually appreciate a boxing match in it's entirety.

Richard Steele was in Don King's pocket because that is what Legendary nights suggested,so therfor it must be true.


Stick to MMA,son.

Ziggy Stardust
10-12-2009, 01:20 AM
Ooh look at me everyone,I watched HBO's Legendary night series and now I am a real boxing fan.I haven't actually watched the fight itself as someone with as short an attention span such as my own could never actually appreciate a boxing match in it's entirety.

Richard Steele was in Don King's pocket because that is what Legendary nights suggested,so therfor it must be true.


Stick to MMA,son.

Newest alt ignored and reported :ugh:

Poet

RightCross94
10-12-2009, 01:53 AM
Ridiculous stoppage. Steel was disgraceful for stopping it. Meldrick was denied a victory he had earned.

Thread Stealer
10-12-2009, 02:16 AM
That might be true but it would certainly add to his legacy to have been the first man to beat JCC.

Of course.

Another thing, when this subject comes up, people often bring up the rematch for some reason, as if it really proves anything. By that point, Duva had already publicly refused to work with Taylor, saying he wouldn't put Taylor in with a 4-rounder, because he was so worried about Taylor's health and his diminished skills. Chavez had declined some too. All that rematch proved was that Chavez had more left in 1994, and that one brutal round wouldn't take away his legs. That was one fight and 1990 was another fight.

If you bring up things like Steele letting Hearns go on against Barkley on spaghetti legs, or not telling Chavez to go back to the neutral corner when he was in the middle of the ring, I can see that argument However, I can't really put much blame on a ref when a battered, bloddied guy won't verbally respond to the ref's question. Again, I blame Duva for that, because I really believe that Taylor would've verbally responded to Steele if he weren't looking at Duva, and the fight would've ended shortly thereafter.

Benncollinsaad
10-12-2009, 08:01 AM
Next thing you know somebody will post a thread about who really won the second fight.:lol1:

mrbigshot
10-13-2009, 08:15 AM
i think taylor won the majority of rounds i think he won at least 9 rounds!!!! where chave was landing the harder blows but taylor was hitting him 4 shots to 1 shot of chavez

taylor was hurt in rounds 11 and 12 BUT he got up on solid legs and the ref steele should of used common sense and let it go but one has to think that don king did have some form of blackmail with steele after reading the shady **** that king has done

i just feel sorry for taylor because he fought hard and aggressive and gave is boxing career away in 1 fight and he deserved the decision!!

steele should of been aware of the red light its very very very amatuer mistake by him

JAB5239
10-13-2009, 11:54 AM
i think taylor won the majority of rounds i think he won at least 9 rounds!!!! where chave was landing the harder blows but taylor was hitting him 4 shots to 1 shot of chavez

taylor was hurt in rounds 11 and 12 BUT he got up on solid legs and the ref steele should of used common sense and let it go but one has to think that don king did have some form of blackmail with steele after reading the shady **** that king has done

i just feel sorry for taylor because he fought hard and aggressive and gave is boxing career away in 1 fight and he deserved the decision!!

steele should of been aware of the red light its very very very amatuer mistake by him

I agree with all you said except your last sentence. Bottom line is that it takes 36 minutes to earn a decision, not 35 minutes and 58 seconds. Taylor should have responded to Steele, yet didn't. If there were 2 minutes left no one would be complaining.

That said, I've always felt bad for Mel. That loss took the wind out of his sails.

blacklodge
10-15-2009, 04:32 AM
This thing with the red light has always bugged me. I think the referee's 1st priority is the safety of the fighters. I don't want the ref to be looking at the red light, reckoning who is ahead and who isn't (Did anyone find the Lawerence Cole-JMM exchange anything but unethical?), or even what round it is. My main issue is whether or not Richard Steele actually took enough time to determine that Meldrick Taylor was unfit to continue. It was a pretty quick 2 questions and and wave off. I thought that was a little shady at the time. Retrospectively, I think Steele was convinced before he ended the count, before he got up even, that Taylor was unfit to continue. The "Are you okay?"s were just a formality. And speaking of formality, regardless of the judges cards, Taylor was beaten. Also, I watched that fight live (on HBO, not in person), had virtually no bias (I didn't really like either of them too much), and had learned to ignore Lampley and the HBO crew's little man crushes they got from time to time with their signed fighters, Taylor in this case. Those guys weren't watching the same fight I was. Legendary Nights had it wrong as well. It was a fairly close fight going into that last round. I had it 7-4 in rounds for Taylor going into the 12th, with the hard momentum going to Chavez. I thought at the end of the 11th that the fight was over and Chavez was going to finish him early in the 12th. I realize the judges had Taylor ahead, but it wouldn't have been out of the question for Chavez to have taken the decision after a 10-8 12th round. Thus, I don't get too worked up about how "robbed" Taylor was.

mrbigshot
10-22-2009, 08:35 AM
I agree with all you said except your last sentence. Bottom line is that it takes 36 minutes to earn a decision, not 35 minutes and 58 seconds. Taylor should have responded to Steele, yet didn't. If there were 2 minutes left no one would be complaining.

That said, I've always felt bad for Mel. That loss took the wind out of his sails.

yeah i suppose but taylor got up at 5 and was on steady legs!!!

him not verbally saying that he was alright is what made steele stop it so i take your point

i just feel sorry for taylor in that he fought a super fight but was too eager to brawl with a brawler

5betlight
10-22-2009, 04:57 PM
It was the quickest "Are you ok? Are you ok?" I've ever seen. He asked him twice in less than a second, he didn't have time to respond. If almost any other ref was in the ring that night he'd have won the fight. That's what makes boxing so unique and sometimes so stupid at times, how much is left up to the judgement of one person. Chavez won it though and that's what the books show.

IMDAZED
10-22-2009, 10:27 PM
It was the quickest "Are you ok? Are you ok?" I've ever seen. He asked him twice in less than a second, he didn't have time to respond. If almost any other ref was in the ring that night he'd have won the fight. That's what makes boxing so unique and sometimes so stupid at times, how much is left up to the judgement of one person. Chavez won it though and that's what the books show.

Well he might've been able to get a response in if Duva wasn't distracting him.

wpink1
10-22-2009, 10:48 PM
Horrible stoppage...it is a subjective decision to be made by the Referee. Some including me believe it is the Ref's job to protect the fighter. Well if the referee was aware that first Chavez was not in the neutral corner, and would have directed chavez back there, time would have elapsed, and even if he waive chavez on, there was only 2-3 seconds left, the bell would have rang by the time Chavez would have been able to land anything..thus IMO the referee would not have been protecting Taylor from anything.

Some argue how was the referee to know. Hmmm that is why they bang on the apron and the lights around the ring go off to let them know the 10 second left in the round mark, so the ref can position himself to cut off the action after the bell sounds. Thus the referee should have known.

Finally, we know why if a fighter makes it to the final bell, that he is counted good, unlike every other round. So following that same analogy, Taylor should have been allowed to make it to the end of the fight.

Worst stoppage ever.

blacklodge
10-23-2009, 03:26 AM
As far as stoppages in major fights go, I think Tua-Rahman I and Mayweather-Manfredy were far, far worse. On the same card, no less. Mayweather-Manfredy was just obscene.
Not to say it was a clean stoppage in Chavez-Taylor, but really, in that situation, Steele's job should be to watch Taylor and protect him from potentially life threatening damage. Not to watch the red light, hear the 10 second slap, or even watch Duva climbing the apron. I genuinely think referees should be instructed to do just that, although I guess I don't know why they have the light and the slap, it's just something I've taken for grantedover the years. But this is a sport where people have died. As I said in an earlier post, I think Steele's mind was made up when Taylor hit the canvas. My mind was made up going into the 12th. If Steele didn't see a genuine response from Taylor, he was stopping it. Period. Chavez had earned the TKO as much as Taylor had earned the decision, in my mind.