View Full Version : Best Heavyweight Jabbers?


STILL_DETOX
10-09-2009, 09:36 PM
:friday::friday:

sonnyboyx2
10-10-2009, 02:02 AM
Muhammad Ali had the best jab i have ever seen.
Sonny Liston had the longest jab and could use it
Wlad Klitschko is a tremendous jabber, its his main weapon
Vitali`s jab is not as good as Wlads although its decent
Holmes had a fast jab but it was far from the best
Lennox had a long jab but it was only a paw `a distration`

Holmes was beaten to the jab by Michael Spinks over 30rds he was also out-jabbed by both Carl Williams & Bonecrusher Smith and very fortunate to get the victory over both of them

Wlad has a pole-of-a-jab which makes him very difficult to beat, however it can be slipped like Corrie Sanders did and left-hooks fired in over or around it.

Lennox had a long jab that he never used to full effect, he was easily out-jabbed by Bruno & Mercer, if Lewis had a jab like Wlad`s he would have been a dominant champion.

Vitali has a long decent jab yet he leaves himself wide-open when he throws it, yet because he has only ever fought Class B/C fighters they have not been able to punish him.

Sonny Liston had one of the great jabs of Boxing History it was a murderous punch that would `snap the head back` of his opponents, he also knew how to work off the jab, using it to set up hooks and right-hand bombs.

Muhammad Ali - The Greatest jab of them all, he had well over 80+ inch reach.. his jab was `Fast, hard & cutting`he could throw his jab going backwards or while dancing around the ring, if he used his jab while standing flat-footed it was an incredible weapon.. He used it to perfection to close both Listons eyes, he softened Foreman up with it, he beat Frazier to a pulp with it..

Norton, Bowe, Tunney, Louis, Foreman all had good jabs

1SILVA
10-10-2009, 02:21 AM
Holmes had the greatest jab in the history of the division. My top 5 jabbers:

Holmes
ali
bowe
lewis
klitschcos

JAB5239
10-10-2009, 02:30 AM
Holmes had the greatest jab in the history of the division. My top 5 jabbers:

Holmes
ali
bowe
lewis
klitschcos

Im surprised you don't have Liston or Louis in your top 5 my friend.

Bushidō
10-10-2009, 02:41 AM
Holmes would be first than Ali

Liston had a very powerful jab

sonnyboyx2
10-10-2009, 04:04 AM
Holmes would be first than Ali

Liston had a very powerful jab
if you put Holmes first from that list the you would have to have
Michael Spinks
Carl Williams
Bonecrusher Smith

as better than them all because those 3 all quite easily beat Holmes in the jabbing department

mickey malone
10-10-2009, 04:39 AM
1. Holmes
2. Ali
3. Liston
4. Wlad
5. Bruno

During the early 80's Larry Holmes was quoted as saying that Pinklon Thomas was the only man whose jab really impressed him..

Czarek
10-10-2009, 05:11 AM
i think holmes had the best jab, ali the fastest and listion had also a great jab, just my opinion

Ziggy Stardust
10-10-2009, 01:07 PM
if you put Holmes first from that list the you would have to have
Michael Spinks
Carl Williams
Bonecrusher Smith

as better than them all because those 3 all quite easily beat Holmes in the jabbing department

You mean all three out-jabbed a PAST PRIME Holmes who was already visibly slipping.

Poet

shogun1123
10-10-2009, 01:14 PM
This is easy Larry Holmes.

BattlingNelson
10-10-2009, 02:05 PM
Joe Louis followed by Holmes, Ali and Liston.

Not particularly brilliant that Louis was omitted from the poll.

MANGLER
10-10-2009, 02:09 PM
Holmes jab is legendary.

sonnyboyx2
10-10-2009, 03:15 PM
You mean all three out-jabbed a PAST PRIME Holmes who was already visibly slipping.

Poet
Holmes got into this sport at a late age not turning pro until he was 24yrs old, he was 45-0 11yrs later when he fought Bonecrusher Smith, Holmes prevailed but was very very fortunate to do so, he was easily out-jabbed by Smith and would have most likely been KOd if Smith had not suffered an horendous cut which halted the fight, Holmes was 46-0 he next fought David Bey and Bey rattled and staggered Holmes repeatedly yet once more he prevailed to move to 47-0 he next fought Carl Williams and the fight can only be described as `ROBBERY` because Williams beat Holmes to a pulp, Holmes was virtually unrecognizable, Williams who had a 85ins reach easily beat Holmes in the jab department, yet Holmes was gifted the decision and moved to 48-0 he chose Michael Spinks as his next opponent and was `Whipped` far and square, being easily out-jabbed, out-hustled and out-fought by the lighter man, their rematch although closer was much of the same stuff... a bitter Holmes took 18 months out and returned to be brutally anihilated by Mike Tyson, Holmes then went 21-1 against a bunch of tomato cans, Holmes jab was good but against Class A fighters it was only mediocre, he failed to out-jab Witherspoon early in his career.. Shavers, Cooney, Snipes, Leon Spinks, Zanon, Leroy Jones, Marvis Frazier, Ocassio, Evangelista, Rodriguez, LeDoux, Frank & Tex Cobb had not a jab to offer to defend themselves...Holmes jab was never ever in the same league as Muhammad Ali`s

Dynamite Kid
10-10-2009, 03:26 PM
Holmes got into this sport at a late age not turning pro until he was 24yrs old, he was 45-0 11yrs later when he fought Bonecrusher Smith, Holmes prevailed but was very very fortunate to do so, he was easily out-jabbed by Smith and would have most likely been KOd if Smith had not suffered an horendous cut which halted the fight, Holmes was 46-0 he next fought David Bey and Bey rattled and staggered Holmes repeatedly yet once more he prevailed to move to 47-0 he next fought Carl Williams and the fight can only be described as `ROBBERY` because Williams beat Holmes to a pulp, Holmes was virtually unrecognizable, Williams who had a 85ins reach easily beat Holmes in the jab department, yet Holmes was gifted the decision and moved to 48-0 he chose Michael Spinks as his next opponent and was `Whipped` far and square, being easily out-jabbed, out-hustled and out-fought by the lighter man, their rematch although closer was much of the same stuff... a bitter Holmes took 18 months out and returned to be brutally anihilated by Mike Tyson, Holmes then went 21-1 against a bunch of tomato cans, Holmes jab was good but against Class A fighters it was only mediocre, he failed to out-jab Witherspoon early in his career.. Shavers, Cooney, Snipes, Leon Spinks, Zanon, Leroy Jones, Marvis Frazier, Ocassio, Evangelista, Rodriguez, LeDoux, Frank & Tex Cobb had not a jab to offer to defend themselves...Holmes jab was never ever in the same league as Muhammad Ali`s


Carl Williams and the fight can only be described as `ROBBERY` because Williams beat Holmes to a pulp


Why do you always!! have to exaggerate sonnyboyx2 ?

It was a Boxing match, infact there were times where Williams outjabbed Holmes but he did not beat Holmes to a pulp in any way shape or form and it was aslo a close fight where Holmes dug really deep towards the end and showed his Championship heart one again.

Holmes won the rematch with Spinks imo.

sonnyboyx2
10-10-2009, 03:44 PM
Carl Williams and the fight can only be described as `ROBBERY` because Williams beat Holmes to a pulp


Why do you always!! have to exaggerate sonnyboyx2 ?

It was a Boxing match, infact there were times where Williams outjabbed Holmes but he did not beat Holmes to a pulp in any way shape or form and it was aslo a close fight where Holmes dug really deep towards the end and showed his Championship heart one again.

Holmes won the rematch with Spinks imo.

no exaggeration here Kid... if i remember correctly Holmes left eye was completely closed by Williams jab, his face was swollen and the HBO commentary team had Williams well ahead as i myself did... i am not knocking Larry Holmes for a single minute, he was a great champion and one of my favourite fighters, i post my comments as i myself see the fights as you and others also do, its not exaggerating, its telling it like i see it... go back and view the fight and come back and then tell me i am wrong or exaggerating

Holmes v Spinks (2) IMO Spinks won the fight

sonnyboyx2
10-10-2009, 03:48 PM
Carl Williams and the fight can only be described as `ROBBERY` because Williams beat Holmes to a pulp


Why do you always!! have to exaggerate sonnyboyx2 ?

It was a Boxing match, infact there were times where Williams outjabbed Holmes but he did not beat Holmes to a pulp in any way shape or form and it was aslo a close fight where Holmes dug really deep towards the end and showed his Championship heart one again.

Holmes won the rematch with Spinks imo.

please dont tell me Holmes was not fortunate against Bonecrusher Smith or that he out-jabbed Smith

Ziggy Stardust
10-10-2009, 03:56 PM
Holmes got into this sport at a late age not turning pro until he was 24yrs old, he was 45-0 11yrs later when he fought Bonecrusher Smith, Holmes prevailed but was very very fortunate to do so, he was easily out-jabbed by Smith and would have most likely been KOd if Smith had not suffered an horendous cut which halted the fight, Holmes was 46-0 he next fought David Bey and Bey rattled and staggered Holmes repeatedly yet once more he prevailed to move to 47-0 he next fought Carl Williams and the fight can only be described as `ROBBERY` because Williams beat Holmes to a pulp, Holmes was virtually unrecognizable, Williams who had a 85ins reach easily beat Holmes in the jab department, yet Holmes was gifted the decision and moved to 48-0 he chose Michael Spinks as his next opponent and was `Whipped` far and square, being easily out-jabbed, out-hustled and out-fought by the lighter man, their rematch although closer was much of the same stuff... a bitter Holmes took 18 months out and returned to be brutally anihilated by Mike Tyson, Holmes then went 21-1 against a bunch of tomato cans, Holmes jab was good but against Class A fighters it was only mediocre, he failed to out-jab Witherspoon early in his career.. Shavers, Cooney, Snipes, Leon Spinks, Zanon, Leroy Jones, Marvis Frazier, Ocassio, Evangelista, Rodriguez, LeDoux, Frank & Tex Cobb had not a jab to offer to defend themselves...Holmes jab was never ever in the same league as Muhammad Ali`s

I am very familiar with Holmes' career.....probably more so than you are. What you failed to do in your little thumbnail biography of Larry was address the salient point that he was past-prime when he fought the fighters you're using as examples. The point is, Holmes was visibly on the slide from 1983 onward and people where commenting on it AT THE TIME. I know: I remember those days very well. People were, in fact, using the Bey fight as an example of Holmes being washed up. Using example from a time when he was clearly past it is being intellectually dishonest.

Poet

Dynamite Kid
10-10-2009, 04:05 PM
no exaggeration here Kid... if i remember correctly Holmes left eye was completely closed by Williams jab, his face was swollen and the HBO commentary team had Williams well ahead as i myself did... i am not knocking Larry Holmes for a single minute, he was a great champion and one of my favourite fighters, i post my comments as i myself see the fights as you and others also do, its not exaggerating, its telling it like i see it... go back and view the fight and come back and then tell me i am wrong or exaggerating

Holmes v Spinks (2) IMO Spinks won the fight



Ive already seen it and Williams beating Holmes to a pulp did not happen, it was a Boxing match. Beating someone to a pulp is how i would describe Chavez's win over Rosario. The fact that Carl Williams was a long range Boxer should tell you all you need to know about what strategy he used to fight Holmes and that he was not the type to try and " beat someone to a pulp" but rather jab and outbox them.

JAB5239
10-10-2009, 06:04 PM
Carl Williams and the fight can only be described as `ROBBERY` because Williams beat Holmes to a pulp


Why do you always!! have to exaggerate sonnyboyx2 ?

It was a Boxing match, infact there were times where Williams outjabbed Holmes but he did not beat Holmes to a pulp in any way shape or form and it was aslo a close fight where Holmes dug really deep towards the end and showed his Championship heart one again.

Holmes won the rematch with Spinks imo.

I agree with all of this. I've watched the Williams fight many times and it was close. Had Carl won the 12th round he could have been given the decision, but as you said already, Larry was the one to dig down and rightfully earn the decision. I will say Williams deserved a rematch though as he did fight a great fight.

I also believe Holmes won the second Spinks fights.

RAESAAD
10-10-2009, 06:11 PM
I think if you have to pick just 1 it would be Holmes.....But all of the guys mentioned have great jabs.

Benncollinsaad
10-10-2009, 06:15 PM
I agree with all of this. I've watched the Williams fight many times and it was close. Had Carl won the 12th round he could have been given the decision, but as you said already, Larry was the one to dig down and rightfully earn the decision. I will say Williams deserved a rematch though as he did fight a great fight.

I also believe Holmes won the second Spinks fights.

Tell me youre joking right away!

BattlingNelson
10-10-2009, 06:26 PM
I agree with all of this. I've watched the Williams fight many times and it was close. Had Carl won the 12th round he could have been given the decision, but as you said already, Larry was the one to dig down and rightfully earn the decision. I will say Williams deserved a rematch though as he did fight a great fight.

I also believe Holmes won the second Spinks fights.
True and I agree. Apart from the stuff about the 12. round bro. I think you're talking about round 15 :).

Dynamite Kid
10-10-2009, 07:40 PM
I agree with all of this. I've watched the Williams fight many times and it was close. Had Carl won the 12th round he could have been given the decision, but as you said already, Larry was the one to dig down and rightfully earn the decision. I will say Williams deserved a rematch though as he did fight a great fight.

I also believe Holmes won the second Spinks fights.

Agree.

Holmes heart can never be questioned, he always dug down deep and he had that Championship heart. He sealed the deal against Williams by showing how much he wanted to keep that title in the late rounds.

JAB5239
10-10-2009, 08:37 PM
True and I agree. Apart from the stuff about the 12. round bro. I think you're talking about round 15 :).


Right you are. My bad.

JAB5239
10-10-2009, 08:38 PM
Tell me youre joking right away!

What would I be joking about?

T3dBundy
10-10-2009, 09:29 PM
just go watch ali vs billy daniels.
ali had an incredible fast jab, way faster than holmes...

T.Horton
10-11-2009, 01:58 AM
pinklon thomas had a great jab.

sonnyboyx2
10-11-2009, 04:01 AM
Agree.

Holmes heart can never be questioned, he always dug down deep and he had that Championship heart. He sealed the deal against Williams by showing how much he wanted to keep that title in the late rounds.
This topic is about "Who had the best jab" NOT who won Holmes v Williams fight, no-one is calling Holmes heart into question, what i was saying in my previous post was Holmes came up short with his jab when he fought 3 guys (Williams, Smith, Spinks) who all beat him to the jab, Williams closed Holmes eye with his jab, its not a case of Holmes was on the slide, its a case of Who had the best Jab.. The Topic poll has Muhammad Ali in it yet if it said Cassius Clay and not Muhammad Ali then there could only be one winner IMO...a seperate thread on Holmes vs Williams would be interesting

sonnyboyx2
10-11-2009, 04:06 AM
pinklon thomas had a great jab.

Yes Pink had a `pole-of-a-jab`, a unification bout in the early 80s with Holmes would have been a great fight

jisi
10-11-2009, 04:06 AM
Holmes and Wlad (Wlad hits harder than Holmes), Ali, Lewis.

Dynamite Kid
10-11-2009, 07:30 AM
This topic is about "Who had the best jab" NOT who won Holmes v Williams fight, no-one is calling Holmes heart into question, what i was saying in my previous post was Holmes came up short with his jab when he fought 3 guys (Williams, Smith, Spinks) who all beat him to the jab, Williams closed Holmes eye with his jab, its not a case of Holmes was on the slide, its a case of Who had the best Jab.. The Topic poll has Muhammad Ali in it yet if it said Cassius Clay and not Muhammad Ali then there could only be one winner IMO...a seperate thread on Holmes vs Williams would be interesting


When i bring up Holmes heart im not taking a shot at you im just bringing it up to reminisce with JAB about what big heart he had.

The only thing i took issue with is when you said Holmes was being beaten to a pulp because that did not happen. I agree that he was outjabbed at time but i already said that.

When you are 35/36 you can start to lose reflexes, timing, do you really think Michael Spinks would of beaten Larry Holmes in his prime?

Well look at it like this, Holmes did a better job of controlling Norton with his jab than Ali did.

sonnyboyx2
10-11-2009, 09:39 AM
When i bring up Holmes heart im not taking a shot at you im just bringing it up to reminisce with JAB about what big heart he had.

The only thing i took issue with is when you said Holmes was being beaten to a pulp because that did not happen. I agree that he was outjabbed at time but i already said that.

When you are 35/36 you can start to lose reflexes, timing, do you really think Michael Spinks would of beaten Larry Holmes in his prime?

Well look at it like this, Holmes did a better job of controlling Norton with his jab than Ali did.

True enough... Holmes was a great fighter, no i dont think Spinks could beat a prime Holmes in fact i dont think there has been a heavyweight since Holmes who could have beaten him

Bushidō
10-11-2009, 01:21 PM
Holmes' jab was a weapon

SeattleSeahawks
10-11-2009, 05:16 PM
The fact that Wlad or Vitali names are even mentioned shows me how funny this boxing forum is. Wlad and Vitali face either nobodies like that fat mexican Chris Arreola or has beens like Hasim Rahman. Or they fight people who are either smaller than them or dont fight back like Juan Carlos Gomez. Wlad or Vitali arent in the top 100 at doing anything. Well they are in the top 10 most overrated boxers of all time.

Holmes threw his jab all the time because that is all he had. And when people threw their jab back at him he wasnt effective.

Liston's jab was great but only fighting blown up super middleweights like Floyd Patterson.

George Foreman's jab on the other hand allowed him to fight till 48 and still push back skilled heavyweights like Shannon Briggs at the end of his career ( Briggs may have poor stamina but he is still a big strong man)

Lennox Lewis jab was good but the best people he beat in his career were a washed up Holyfield and Tyson. Bruno and Briggs were handling him until they ran out of steam and David Tua is a midget.

Ali had a great jab when he didnt paw with it.

Joe Louis for the most part fought people who were either smaller than him or people who were unskilled like Max and Buddy Baer.

JAB5239
10-11-2009, 05:31 PM
The fact that Wlad or Vitali names are even mentioned shows me how funny this boxing forum is. Wlad and Vitali face either nobodies like that fat mexican Chris Arreola or has beens like Hasim Rahman. Or they fight people who are either smaller than them or dont fight back like Juan Carlos Gomez. Wlad or Vitali arent in the top 100 at doing anything. Well they are in the top 10 most overrated boxers of all time.

Holmes threw his jab all the time because that is all he had. And when people threw their jab back at him he wasnt effective.

Liston's jab was great but only fighting blown up super middleweights like Floyd Patterson.

George Foreman's jab on the other hand allowed him to fight till 48 and still push back skilled heavyweights like Shannon Briggs at the end of his career ( Briggs may have poor stamina but he is still a big strong man)

Lennox Lewis jab was good but the best people he beat in his career were a washed up Holyfield and Tyson. Bruno and Briggs were handling him until they ran out of steam and David Tua is a midget.

Ali had a great jab when he didnt paw with it.

Joe Louis for the most part fought people who were either smaller than him or people who were unskilled like Max and Buddy Baer.

You have ripped a few decent fighters in this post, but you call Shannon Briggs skilled. Your credibility is off to a shaky start here. I could tear this whole post down, but will choose to pass on that at the moment.:smashfrea

"Shion"
10-11-2009, 05:40 PM
Muhammad Ali, anyone?

Dynamite Kid
10-11-2009, 07:19 PM
You have ripped a few decent fighters in this post, but you call Shannon Briggs skilled. Your credibility is off to a shaky start here. I could tear this whole post down, but will choose to pass on that at the moment.:smashfrea

New account gets created, first post is in the History section and its negative comment trying to tear down some great fighters, i wonder who this could be:sleeping:

jjones10591
10-11-2009, 09:30 PM
In my opinion Tony TNT Tucker did

Bsquared
10-11-2009, 09:37 PM
Holmes had the best heavyweight jab I've ever seen.

mickey malone
10-12-2009, 04:46 AM
In my opinion Tony TNT Tucker did
Tucker had a magnificent jab, as did Buster Douglas and Tim Witherspoon, but they tend to get overlooked because they wern't always in shape..

Witherspoon, especially, had a tremendously powerful jab.. I remember watching him jab huge men, like Jorge Luis Gonzalez & Frank Bruno to pieces with it.. And this being administered with 30lbs of lard around his midriff.. Had Tim stayed in shape, he'd have been a beast..

BattlingNelson
10-12-2009, 05:26 AM
You have ripped a few decent fighters in this post, but you call Shannon Briggs skilled. Your credibility is off to a shaky start here. I could tear this whole post down, but will choose to pass on that at the moment.:smashfrea

New account gets created, first post is in the History section and its negative comment trying to tear down some great fighters, i wonder who this could be:sleeping:

Let's face it. That account got off to a very bad start. :Flush:

'Sugar' Freddi
10-12-2009, 04:18 PM
Joe Louis had an amazing jab as well. It was very affective on his opponents. He always made their heads snap back.

Top 5 according to this person:
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/IBnBcGst5CI&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/IBnBcGst5CI&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>