<a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6561841/">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6561841/</a>

Have you noticed that they play hip hop exclusively on NBA telecasts?

I don't watch that much basketball on TV, though I guess that's not surprising. Seems like hip hop and the NBA are both parts of the same problem. They both help to promote a stereotypical image of black people that everyone comes to accept and expect, and which also encourages rappers/ball players to uphold that image.

I don't watch that much basketball on TV, though I guess that's not surprising. Seems like hip hop and the NBA are both parts of the same problem. They both help to promote a stereotypical image of black people that everyone comes to accept and expect, and which also encourages rappers/ball players to uphold that image.
No, they just simply know their audience. Who was the last great white player? Larry Bird?

No, they just simply know their audience. Who was the last great white player? Larry Bird?

That's a good point. The thing is too though that impressionable kids (of all races) watch this stuff and get the wrong ideas. Having said that, I'm sure a lot of the rappers who act like gangsters are a lot smarter than that, and acting a lot more than they let on. Same thing with ball players (even Roy Jones often seems like a nicer guy than he usually lets on).

Bird made a lot of stupid comments on some interview with ESPN earlier this year. Surprised he didn't get in more trouble for that.

Bird made a lot of stupid comments on some interview with ESPN earlier this year. Surprised he didn't get in more trouble for that.
He should've if Bill Cosby got in trouble for saying that black people need to stop listening to rap.

See Bird's comments here:

<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1818396">
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1818396</a>

Magic's classy respones are great.

No, they just simply know their audience. Who was the last great white player? Larry Bird?


Johnny Stock and Mark Price too.

whats NBA stand for?

No, they just simply know their audience. Who was the last great white player? Larry Bird?

What about Dirk Nowitzki, Peja Stoajkovic, Detlef Schrempf, John Stockton, Jeff Hornacek, Chris Mullin, Jason Williams, Manu Ginobili and these are only the first that came into my mind.

For a real fan of the game race doesnt matter a **** anyway. It's about watching the best no matter where they come from or what they look like.

For a real fan of the game race doesnt matter a **** anyway. It's about watching the best no matter where they come from or what they look like.

Then about 95% of the people who watch NBA games aren't real fans. That's the problem.

A guy I listen to on talk radio was basically saying the same thing last night. Middle class white guys and Hispanic guys cant stand this hip-hop culture that has taken over the NBA. I think its true. Its not about race, its about culture. Middle age white and hispanic, and probably a lot of black guys just dont uderstand this corn row, tattoo, hip hop lifestyle that these guys lead. No one can deny that player behavior has gotten worse over the last 10 years. We didnt have people choking coaches and jumping into the stands back when Jordan and Magic where the guys we watched every week. I think that the bad behavior has something to do with this new gangster lifestyle these guys try to emulate with their new found money and fame. What the league isnt paying attention to is that this mentality infuriates the people who are buying tickets to watch the game!! Yes, fans put up with bad behavior when its the thug from their team doing it, but as soon as the thug from the other team does something they jump all over him, like the other night when the fan nailed Artest with a beer. I mean, you get a little bit of beer into the middle age, over weight, large children you see at sports games, and if given the chance, they will take out their aggression on that guy who said he cant feed his kids on 5 mil a year or that he needs a month off from his job to pronote a rap album. I think this culture gap indeed plays a major role in this incident.

Then about 95% of the people who watch NBA games aren't real fans. That's the problem.

The NBA is shown on TVs around the world. And it's not like a lot Chinese, German, Argentinian or French people would care about which colour their favourite player has.

Despite being one of the absolute best players to ever play the game....I can't recall ever seeing a black guy wearing a Larry Bird jersey.

Despite being one of the absolute best players to ever play the game....I can't recall ever seeing a black guy wearing a Larry Bird jersey.

But I can recall thousands of white guys wearing a Michael Jordan jerseys. And if he was white black folks would still wear his jersey. Or do I miss a point?

I don't know if Jordan was white that blacks would still wear his jersey.

The NBA is shown on TVs around the world. And it's not like a lot Chinese, German, Argentinian or French people would care about which colour their favourite player has.

So people in France and Germany don't ever think about race? Dream on.

So people in France and Germany don't ever think about race? Dream on.

Well, at least it doesn't affect what sports they watch. There are a lot of black soccer players f.e. and people don't mind as long as they play good.

A guy I listen to on talk radio was basically saying the same thing last night. Middle class white guys and Hispanic guys cant stand this hip-hop culture that has taken over the NBA. I think its true. Its not about race, its about culture. Middle age white and hispanic, and probably a lot of black guys just dont uderstand this corn row, tattoo, hip hop lifestyle that these guys lead. No one can deny that player behavior has gotten worse over the last 10 years. We didnt have people choking coaches and jumping into the stands back when Jordan and Magic where the guys we watched every week. I think that the bad behavior has something to do with this new gangster lifestyle these guys try to emulate with their new found money and fame. What the league isnt paying attention to is that this mentality infuriates the people who are buying tickets to watch the game!! Yes, fans put up with bad behavior when its the thug from their team doing it, but as soon as the thug from the other team does something they jump all over him, like the other night when the fan nailed Artest with a beer. I mean, you get a little bit of beer into the middle age, over weight, large children you see at sports games, and if given the chance, they will take out their aggression on that guy who said he cant feed his kids on 5 mil a year or that he needs a month off from his job to pronote a rap album. I think this culture gap indeed plays a major role in this incident.

Another problem is that more and more people just make a blanket judgement that everyone who is black is or wants to be a hip hop-style gangster, even if they want nothing to do with that culture. This situation is even worse than it was say 10 years ago. People think we are making progress but more and more ignorant white people think that all black people are rappin', baggy-pants wearin' fools. The NBA doesn't do anybody any favours by promoting this.

Well, at least it doesn't affect what sports they watch. There are a lot of black soccer players f.e. and people don't mind as long as they play good.

Okay, I agree with you. Race in America (well, North America) is still such a divisive issue, though, that many people do think in terms of race even when you would not expect them to. Look at all the (presumably) white people who posted here who immediately rifled off a list of white basketball players when challenged.

Another problem is that more and more people just make a blanket judgement that everyone who is black is or wants to be a hip hop-style gangster, even if they want nothing to do with that culture. This situation is even worse than it was say 10 years ago. People think we are making progress but more and more ignorant white people think that all black people are rappin', baggy-pants wearin' fools. The NBA doesn't do anybody any favours by promoting this.


You could also say there's a lot of ignorant blacks out there who think if a brother isn't into hip-hop...he's some kind of corny, ass-kissing "Uncle Tom".

Okay, I agree with you. Race in America (well, North America) is still such a divisive issue, though, that many people do think in terms of race even when you would not expect them to. Look at all the (presumably) white people who posted here who immediately rifled off a list of white basketball players when challenged.

I was one of them ... but it was more because of my basketball knowledge. In the end I can only talk about myself and the people I know. And I've never heared anyone say "Nah, I dunno like this guy. He might be an outstanding player but he's black."

And people in America aren't this race focused as well, are they?

I was one of them ... but it was more because of my basketball knowledge. In the end I can only talk about myself and the people I know. And I've never heared anyone say "Nah, I dunno like this guy. He might be an outstanding player but he's black."


People more or less say that about many black quarterbacks and coaches in the NFL. Up until about five to ten years ago it was almost impossible to find anyone but white people in either of these positions. Even now people make racist comments when this or that black coach or quarterback performs poorly.

People in America dont give a **** what color a player is, they care about the players attitude towards what they perceive is thier job, basketball. If a players has no integrity, like Artest, and asks for time off to promote his rap album, people arent going to like him. If a guy says he needs more money so his kids can eat when he already makes millions a year, the people who really need money so their kids can eat arent going to like that guy. America has always embraced black NBA players, its only recently that there has been a backlash and its because of this image that they portray. No one wants thier kid to look up to an Artest, Iverson, or now, Kobe. But no one cared when their kid liked Magic, Jordan, or even Barkley. Its the culture, not race. America isnt as racist as some would like you to believe. We want our athletes to play the game, and thats it.

People in America dont give a **** what color a player is, they care about the players attitude towards what they perceive is thier job, basketball. If a players has no integrity, like Artest, and asks for time off to promote his rap album, people arent going to like him. If a guy says he needs more money so his kids can eat when he already makes millions a year, the people who really need money so their kids can eat arent going to like that guy. America has always embraced black NBA players, its only recently that there has been a backlash and its because of this image that they portray. No one wants thier kid to look up to an Artest, Iverson, or now, Kobe. But no one cared when their kid liked Magic, Jordan, or even Barkley. Its the culture, not race. America isnt as racist as some would like you to believe. We want our athletes to play the game, and thats it.

Good points. Good post :cool: .

People in America dont give a **** what color a player is, they care about the players attitude towards what they perceive is thier job, basketball. If a players has no integrity, like Artest, and asks for time off to promote his rap album, people arent going to like him. If a guy says he needs more money so his kids can eat when he already makes millions a year, the people who really need money so their kids can eat arent going to like that guy. America has always embraced black NBA players, its only recently that there has been a backlash and its because of this image that they portray. No one wants thier kid to look up to an Artest, Iverson, or now, Kobe. But no one cared when their kid liked Magic, Jordan, or even Barkley. Its the culture, not race. America isnt as racist as some would like you to believe. We want our athletes to play the game, and thats it.

...though don't you think that if this new impression of NBA stars persists that people will start to behave as they did not that long ago, when black quarterbacks had to go and play in Canada because they were not allowed to play in the States? When Southern college teams refused to play integrated teams in the North?

...though don't you think that if this new impression of NBA stars persists that people will start to behave as they did not that long ago, when black quarterbacks had to go and play in Canada because they were not allowed to play in the States? When Southern college teams refused to play integrated teams in the North?

I dont know why you are blaming the fans and thier "impression". Its not an impression. Some NBA players are thugs and low lifes, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with their skin color. People have no problem differentiating between the bad guys and the good guys, black or white. If the attitude of some players in the NBA doesnt change maybe people will stop buying tickets to see them play but the notion of things becoming segragated because fo race are rediculous and beside the point. We arent talking about race, we are talking about an out of control culture in the NBA.

Also, its not the fans who are pulling this "impression" out of thin air. The impression that they have gotten from some players in the NBA is no ones fault but they players. You cant strangle your coach or run into the stands and start punching fans then say that they fans are wrong to have a bad impression of you. These guys need to be responsible for their own actions, thats why I applaud the suspensions that were handed out by the commisioner. Things have gotten way out of control.

i still say the biggest problems are how close the fans are and liquor. dont matter what race of people are in the stands, if you get them angry while theyre liquored up somethings going to go down. i dont know how this doesnt happen more often. if you mvoe the crowd away from the players and the fans arent drunk i seriously doubt anything like this would ever happen.

the guy who threw the cup on artest, then sucker punched artest twice in the back of the head. that guy needs to get his ass thrown in jail. some balding loser who hid his baldness under a hat, bitter at the world.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but the evidence is now conclusive that Artest attacked the wrong person. That guy is going to make a fortune and Artest should be brought up on criminal charges.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but the evidence is now conclusive that Artest attacked the wrong person. That guy is going to make a fortune and Artest should be brought up on criminal charges.

No one has mentioned that yet and its a very good point. The guy just charges into the stands and attacks a random guy who had nothing to do with it. Then his buddy joins in on the fun and does the same thing. Things like this sure arent going to help Artest's reputation, or the league's.

^ yup, theres two fans who i believe are going to get ALOT of money. the first one artest went after who had that OH MY GOD IM ABOUT TO GET MY ASS KICKED look on his face. and the second was the guy steven jackson punched out when he just went crazy in the stands. both guys had nothing to do with anything. the guy i was talking about who threw the cup on artest violated his probation and is probably going to jail

I dont know why you are blaming the fans and thier "impression". Its not an impression. Some NBA players are thugs and low lifes, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with their skin color. People have no problem differentiating between the bad guys and the good guys, black or white. If the attitude of some players in the NBA doesnt change maybe people will stop buying tickets to see them play but the notion of things becoming segragated because fo race are rediculous and beside the point. We arent talking about race, we are talking about an out of control culture in the NBA.

Also, its not the fans who are pulling this "impression" out of thin air. The impression that they have gotten from some players in the NBA is no ones fault but they players. You cant strangle your coach or run into the stands and start punching fans then say that they fans are wrong to have a bad impression of you. These guys need to be responsible for their own actions, thats why I applaud the suspensions that were handed out by the commisioner. Things have gotten way out of control.

I am totally in favour of the suspensions as well. The impressions I'm referring to is the impression made in part by the thugs and low-lifes, as you call them. The NBA helps to promote their behaviour, but I am in total agreement that people are responsible for their own actions. I agree that many players have gotten out of control and something needs to be done about it.

The impression I'm talking about is the one that fans will have that every black player is like this. I disagree with you that people will be able to tell the difference between the good athletes and the bad athletes so easily. If people were so good at discerning good behaviour from bad behaviour regardless of their own personal biases, then we would have never had the racial problems we had in the first place. I'm not just talking Americans here...I'm talking about everybody.

I'm sure if you asked a lot of people about Kevin Garnett, they would probably assume that he was just another hip hop wannabe gangster thug himself, when the truth is that he is a hard-working young player that had managed to stay out of trouble. But he is black and from a poor neighbourhood and came to the NBA right out of high school so people will immediately judge him to be something different.

I am totally in favour of the suspensions as well. The impressions I'm referring to is the impression made in part by the thugs and low-lifes, as you call them. The NBA helps to promote their behaviour, but I am in total agreement that people are responsible for their own actions. I agree that many players have gotten out of control and something needs to be done about it.

The impression I'm talking about is the one that fans will have that every black player is like this. I disagree with you that people will be able to tell the difference between the good athletes and the bad athletes so easily. If people were so good at discerning good behaviour from bad behaviour regardless of their own personal biases, then we would have never had the racial problems we had in the first place. I'm not just talking Americans here...I'm talking about everybody.

I'm sure if you asked a lot of people about Kevin Garnett, they would probably assume that he was just another hip hop wannabe gangster thug himself, when the truth is that he is a hard-working young player that had managed to stay out of trouble. But he is black and from a poor neighbourhood and came to the NBA right out of high school so people will immediately judge him to be something different.

We have learned a lot since the old days of slavery and I dont think that type of thinking applies when discussing this topic. Whites had problems with black IMO because they were scared of them because they were new and different from the whites. People are often scared of things that they find different or strange, like someone with a different skin color. We have learned a lot about acceptence since then and Americans have evolved greatly in the matters of race since those days so I dont think we can tie the two together in this discussion that is simply about behavior.

I dont think Kevin Garnett is a bad guy because as far as I know hes been a good guy. I dont know of anyone who would say something bad about Kevin, unless they hate the T-Wolves that is. :p

Im thinking that maybe you think people are more racist than they really are. Remember this is 2004 and we have been through lots of **** and came a long way. Maybe I think that way because i have always lived in a area with all different kinds of people.

Being and acting like a thug and a gangster shouldn't be glorified.

We have learned a lot since the old days of slavery and I dont think that type of thinking applies when discussing this topic. Whites had problems with black IMO because they were scared of them because they were new and different from the whites. People are often scared of things that they find different or strange, like someone with a different skin color. We have learned a lot about acceptence since then and Americans have evolved greatly in the matters of race since those days so I dont think we can tie the two together in this discussion that is simply about behavior.

I dont think Kevin Garnett is a bad guy because as far as I know hes been a good guy. I dont know of anyone who would say something bad about Kevin, unless they hate the T-Wolves that is. :p

Im thinking that maybe you think people are more racist than they really are. Remember this is 2004 and we have been through lots of **** and came a long way. Maybe I think that way because i have always lived in a area with all different kinds of people.

I think it varies from place to place, but I do agree that people have come a long way. And it's true that, regardless of any racial issues, these guys acted like thugs and should be dealt with accordingly. It's just interesting to look at this issue from the perspective of race. You never know when people might start to backslide, so it's always good to assess this type of situation and discuss posible underlying issues.

No one has mentioned that yet and its a very good point. The guy just charges into the stands and attacks a random guy who had nothing to do with it. Then his buddy joins in on the fun and does the same thing. Things like this sure arent going to help Artest's reputation, or the league's.

This will develop into a huge story because as far as I know nothing like this has ever happened before...usually the fan, in some way, has helped to provoke the situation. That never excuses the behaviour of the athlete, of course, but it does save him from losing millions of dollars in a lawsuit.

nhl has more thugs than the nba does. euro soccer fans are banned from the events because all they do is go there and start fights. i dont think this is racial at all, just drunken morons in the stands and hot heads on the court.

nhl has more thugs than the nba does. euro soccer fans are banned from the events because all they do is go there and start fights. i dont think this is racial at all, just drunken morons in the stands and hot heads on the court.

This is also a good point. there are stupid people in all cultures. Just like there are dumb guys in America who act like thugs and play pro basketball, there are dumb, thoothless, white guys in Canada who act like thugs. This bad behavior has nothing to do with the color of peoples skin, it has to do with stupidity.

Your right X, the NHL has more thugs than the NBA. I dont watch soccer so I can t comment about the players, but fromthe reports of things I have seen in the news soccer fans have got to be the dumbest out of all sports.

People in America dont give a **** what color a player is, they care about the players attitude towards what they perceive is thier job, basketball. If a players has no integrity, like Artest, and asks for time off to promote his rap album, people arent going to like him. If a guy says he needs more money so his kids can eat when he already makes millions a year, the people who really need money so their kids can eat arent going to like that guy. America has always embraced black NBA players, its only recently that there has been a backlash and its because of this image that they portray. No one wants thier kid to look up to an Artest, Iverson, or now, Kobe. But no one cared when their kid liked Magic, Jordan, or even Barkley. Its the culture, not race. America isnt as racist as some would like you to believe. We want our athletes to play the game, and thats it.



....very well said and I agree 100% :)

This will develop into a huge story because as far as I know nothing like this has ever happened before...usually the fan, in some way, has helped to provoke the situation. That never excuses the behaviour of the athlete, of course, but it does save him from losing millions of dollars in a lawsuit.

Actually players settle out of court with fans all the time, players throw money at problems they get themselves into and they quietly go away. For example the guy who threw the chair into the stands will pay substantially for that misjudgement. The Kobe situation was rare because it actually went to court. In this case Artest attacked a guy who was innocent, as the tape shows. he will pay bigtime, and if he wasn't a pampered athlete he'd be behind bars.

nhl has more thugs than the nba does. euro soccer fans are banned from the events because all they do is go there and start fights. i dont think this is racial at all, just drunken morons in the stands and hot heads on the court.

Fighting is part of the sport of hockey. That doesn't make them thugs. You're right about soccer fans though. Total hooligans.

Fighting is part of the sport of hockey. That doesn't make them thugs. You're right about soccer fans though. Total hooligans.

sonny check your pm's please