View Full Version : Who was the better Boxer ..........Duran or Pryor


Dynamite Kid
10-08-2009, 03:59 PM
Who was the better Boxer ..........Duran or Pryor ?

Ironically enough i think both had good defences but both got nailed good from time to time. Duran got knocked out by Hearns (past prime) Duran got dropped in both fights with De Jesus, Pryor on the other hand hit the canvas in almost every fight it seemed :lol1:

Pryor left his chin up in the air when he attacked though, i dont think he was chinny or anything.

I make Pryor the better Boxer, he might not have been as good defensively inside as Duran but i think he had better legs and he was a little slicker, albeit i know he was also wreckless at times.

This is quite interesting because you can pick one way or another.

Kut
10-08-2009, 04:37 PM
For me Duran is the better defensive Boxer and tactician, while Pryor the relentless offensive guy. Robertos Jab is underrated but Pryors is better (maybe because of the short arms of Roberto). Aaron would have been not so successful if he would had such an unbelievable condition and such a high workrate.
For me Roberto is the slicker guy. And he is by far the more versatile guy. I go with Duran as the better boxer.

boxingbuff
10-08-2009, 04:40 PM
Roberto Doooo-ran

mcentepede
10-10-2009, 01:28 AM
Duran moved up to welterweight to avoid facing Pryor according to Pryor`s Bio. This mite anger Duran fans but they felt the risk was too high for a Pryor fite as the money would have been lot less than Sugar Ray Leonard. Pryor on the other hand was plopped in the jr. welterweight division because he was avoided by the lightweight champions at the time. Leonard admitted to avoiding Pryor because money wasn`t right and Hearns had no excuses...He didn`t want to risk anything vs. Pryor. Only thing that finally beat Pryor was cokaine. He was great. Duran too.

Bushidō
10-10-2009, 03:42 AM
Duran was more well rounded. When you think of Duran you don't really think about his defense but he did little things that made his defense very good. I can't really say the same about Pryors defense

TheGreatA
10-10-2009, 03:10 PM
Duran moved up to welterweight to avoid facing Pryor according to Pryor`s Bio. This mite anger Duran fans but they felt the risk was too high for a Pryor fite as the money would have been lot less than Sugar Ray Leonard. Pryor on the other hand was plopped in the jr. welterweight division because he was avoided by the lightweight champions at the time. Leonard admitted to avoiding Pryor because money wasn`t right and Hearns had no excuses...He didn`t want to risk anything vs. Pryor. Only thing that finally beat Pryor was cokaine. He was great. Duran too.

I'm afraid you've got your facts wrong. Pryor was not even a contender when Duran moved up to 147 (1978) and he only became a factor (by beating Arguello in 1982) long after Duran had his fights against Ray Leonard.

Duran and his management did offer Pryor a chance to fight him, but Pryor declined.

Having seen most of the footage that is available of both, Duran is the better boxer by quite a margin in my opinion.

In all seriousness just look at these fights:

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JB16
10-10-2009, 03:52 PM
I'm afraid you've got your facts wrong. Pryor was not even a contender when Duran moved up to 147 (1978) and he only became a factor (by beating Arguello in 1982) long after Duran had his fights against Ray Leonard.

Duran and his management did offer Pryor a chance to fight him, but Pryor declined.
Having seen most of the footage that is available of both, Duran is the better boxer by quite a margin in my opinion.

In all seriousness just look at these fights:

Pryor claims the reason that him and Duran never fought was, when Panama Lewis got with him he made Pryor promise that he would never agree to fight Duran because he had, had a baby to Duran's sister, and Pryor kept to his promise.

Bright-Eyes
10-10-2009, 04:01 PM
Duran and it's not even close.

Dynamite Kid
10-10-2009, 04:03 PM
I'm afraid you've got your facts wrong. Pryor was not even a contender when Duran moved up to 147 (1978) and he only became a factor (by beating Arguello in 1982) long after Duran had his fights against Ray Leonard.

Duran and his management did offer Pryor a chance to fight him, but Pryor declined.

Having seen most of the footage that is available of both, Duran is the better boxer by quite a margin in my opinion.

In all seriousness just look at these fights:

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With all due respect you probably just picked out Pryor's worst performance against Dujuan Johnson. You could just as easily post videos of Duran being KTFO or getting outboxed by Laing, Benitez, dropping a decision to Robbie Sims.

Duran is the better boxer by quite a margin in my opinion.
I swear Duran's Boxing skills are so overrated its untrue.

TheGreatA
10-10-2009, 04:28 PM
With all due respect you probably just picked out Pryor's worst performance against Dujuan Johnson. You could just as easily post videos of Duran being KTFO or getting outboxed by Laing, Benitez, dropping a decision to Robbie Sims.

Duran is the better boxer by quite a margin in my opinion.
I swear Duran's Boxing skills are so overrated its untrue.

Pryor's best boxing performances were against Arguello, when he switched into a boxer at times, but Arguello could be confused by such tactics.

I believe it's Pryor who is heavily overrated. I'm not claiming that Duran is among the classiest boxers but he got by mostly with his skills while Pryor got by with talent. Duran could get hit but Pryor at times could get hit at will, only surviving due to a granite-like chin.

I'm not sure if Pryor would do all that well against Laing, Benitez and Sims at 154/160 either, and at 30+ years of age. He was finished when he was 29 years old.

Dynamite Kid
10-10-2009, 04:35 PM
Pryor's best boxing performances were against Arguello, when he switched into a boxer at times, but Arguello could be confused by such tactics.

I believe it's Pryor who is heavily overrated. I'm not claiming that Duran is among the classiest boxers but he got by mostly with his skills while Pryor got by with talent. Duran could get hit but Pryor at times could get hit at will, only surviving due to a granite-like chin.

I'm not sure if Pryor would do all that well against Laing and Sims at 154/160 either, and at 30+ years of age. He was finished when he was 29 years old.


Gaetan Hart is his best Boxing performance imo.

Pryor is only overrated by the legendary night fans.

Pryor had speed of foot and hand, power, stamina, chin, heart, he could Box & fight, he had a lot going for him imo. He is more gifted than Duran physically imo, but Duran was stronger physically.

oldgringo
10-10-2009, 04:38 PM
With all due respect you probably just picked out Pryor's worst performance against Dujuan Johnson. You could just as easily post videos of Duran being KTFO or getting outboxed by Laing, Benitez, dropping a decision to Robbie Sims.

Duran is the better boxer by quite a margin in my opinion.
I swear Duran's Boxing skills are so overrated its untrue.

I don't think it's unfair to post the video of Johnson or to talk about Pryor's tendency to get a little loose early in his fights. Pryor struggled with lesser, although capable, fighters in the thick of his career.

Duran had the better skills to me. His boxing ability made it possible for him to move up several weight classes and undress a guy like Davey Moore. His skills helped him survive against a rugged, somewhat underrated guy like Barkley. Watching that fight was a thing of beauty and his ability was on full blast in that one.

Dynamite Kid
10-10-2009, 04:44 PM
I don't think it's unfair to post the video of Johnson or to talk about Pryor's tendency to get a little loose early in his fights. Pryor struggled with lesser, although capable, fighters in the thick of his career.

Duran had the better skills to me. His boxing ability made it possible for him to move up several weight classes and undress a guy like Davey Moore. His skills helped him survive against a rugged, somewhat underrated guy like Barkley. Watching that fight was a thing of beauty and his ability was on full blast in that one.


I think it was more so his strength being the biggest factor in why he was able to hang with them. I just dont see the sublime skills from Duran, he was a good inside fighter who became more adept at slipping punches, but does he slip and counter better than Whitaker, Toney ? not imo. Did he used to get nailed quite a lot ? yes.


He had good Boxing skills and had tremendous strength for a LW but i dont think he was that superior to Pryor in terms of Boxing skills.

Dynamite Kid
10-10-2009, 04:51 PM
Many might suggest that Meldrick Taylor was a better Boxer than Duran but Taylor clearly could not handle it against bigger guys, i know people hold the view that he was past it after the Chavez fight but he was still a very good fighter. I think the real problem for Taylor was he was too short to Box from range and he did not have enough power to command the respect of bigger guys, he could not use defence to create is offense like Maywseather because besides being inferior to Mayweather on nearly every level his defence was his offence. The reason i use him as an example is because i think its illustrates that Boxing skills does not equate to success at higher weights, so the analogy that Duran was that good of a Boxer because he went up successfully in weight does not stack up, with me at least.

TheGreatA
10-10-2009, 04:56 PM
Gaetan Hart is his best Boxing performance imo.

Pryor is only overrated by the legendary night fans.

Pryor had speed of foot and hand, power, stamina, chin, heart, he could Box & fight, he had a lot going for him imo. He is more gifted than Duran physically imo, but Duran was stronger physically.

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If you ask me, Gaetan Hart shouldn't have come close to getting a title shot but it was an impressive performance indeed. Duran himself did fight some suspect opposition at LW but then again few bring up those fights as proof of his greatness.

I don't doubt that Pryor was more gifted than Duran, he was more gifted than most fighters I've seen. But I don't think he was necessarily more skilled than Duran.

The older Duran got, the worse he matched up against slick boxers in my opinion. He simply didn't have it in him to chase them, but against more crude brawlers he could display his skills and abilities. I really don't think that Duran could match strength with Moore or Barkley, he simply outboxed them.

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It's a bit of a circus fight but Duran at nearly 50 years of age was still able to outbox fighters like Jorge Castro whenever he could:

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Here are some thing Hagler and his camp had to say about Duran:

If Hagler learned anything in the Duran fight, it was not to lie back and let the rounds pass by. Pat and Goody Petronelli, Hagler's handlers, learned a lot that night, too. "Who would have thought that Duran could outbox a Marvin Hagler?" Pat Petronelli asks. "We told Marvin, 'Lay back and counter-punch.' He's going to come at you. Duran took us to school."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...7003/index.htm

Quotes after the fight:

"People think I'm going to go crazy in there, like against Leonard," Duran said before the fight. "But, no."

"I knew that Hagler was waiting for me to get inside to fight with him," Duran said afterward, "so he could get his punches in with force."

"I fought him at half-distance," Duran said. "I was waiting for him to unload so I could score on him. Whichever hand he unloaded, I was ready to counter. He didn't confuse me with anything. I was beating him without mixing it up too much."

Petronelli's foreboding deepened. "Duran waited and waited and waited for Marvin to lead," he said. "We had to change our tactics and go on the offensive, which isn't really Marvin's style." So at the end of the third, Petronelli told Hagler, "This ain't going too well. Put the pressure on him."

"He'd slip and counter, slide back and wait for me," Hagler said. "When you're trying for a knockout, it's the hardest thing to get. That's what I was after, but you have to let them come. He wasn't there. Duran is too crafty to go after for a knockout. You leave yourself open, and he takes advantage of it."

"I turned my head to be careful of his right because it's his most dangerous hand. His left is dead. The hand he most relied on was his right," Duran said.

"I wasn't getting my jab off the way I generally do," said Hagler, who was more effective when he switched from a lefty to a righty stance, which brought him two feet closer to Duran. "It seemed everybody was disappointed that I didn't knock him out. I felt that way myself. But he wasn't that vulnerable to a knockout. It was hard to hit him with a solid punch. I didn't catch him with a solid shot."

"I was a little scared because he was coming in straight up," Duran said. "I could reach him with any right, but actually I was scared to throw the right hand."

"He came to tear my head off," says Duran, "but when he saw that I could hit him hard, with strength, he got scared and became a coward. That's why he didn't take too many chances and mix it up with me. Everyone was saying he was a destroyer, but when he hit me, he didn't do anything to me. His punches absolutely did me no damage. He got scared every time he threw a jab because I could get my right in under it. That's why he held off so much."

"I'm not a fool either," Hagler would say, "going in to get hit. You don't barrel in there on a guy like Roberto Duran. Why take unnecessary punishment unless you have to? I'd been effective and was winning the fight, so it isn't like I had to go in there and take the punishment to bomb him out."

"The better man won," Duran said, after two judges had given Hagler the victory by one point, the other by two.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...76/1/index.htm

As for Duran at his very best, this fight is it if you were to ask me:

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He just took a very, very good lightweight apart and he did not do it with sheer strength but with brilliant boxing.

Dynamite Kid
10-10-2009, 04:57 PM
Pryor Boxing Gaetan Hart

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TheGreatA
10-10-2009, 05:20 PM
Many might suggest that Meldrick Taylor was a better Boxer than Duran but Taylor clearly could not handle it against bigger guys, i know people hold the view that he was past it after the Chavez fight but he was still a very good fighter. I think the real problem for Taylor was he was too short to Box from range and he did not have enough power to command the respect of bigger guys, he could not use defence to create is offense like Maywseather because besides being inferior to Mayweather on nearly every level his defence was his offence. The reason i use him as an example is because i think its illustrates that Boxing skills does not equate to success at higher weights, so the analogy that Duran was that good of a Boxer because he went up successfully in weight does not stack up, with me at least.

I don't think Taylor was a better boxer than Duran though. Actually I don't think he was that good of a boxer at all, he relied on handspeed and the ability to take one to give three, four or five punches of his own.

At 5'7 and a 68" reach, Duran was not a big guy. He was actually thrown around by a rather skinny welterweight Zeferino "Speedy" Gonzalez in a tune-up welterweight bout which made most viewers think he did not stand much of a chance as a welter.

Most good boxers are able to move up and have success. Duran, if he only relied on his physical ability, could not have been able to match strength with welterweights and middleweights who were bigger than him. I'm sure that Carlos Palomino, Davey Moore and Iran Barkley were just as strong as he was if not stronger but Duran was simply a better boxer.

Dynamite Kid
10-10-2009, 05:35 PM
I don't think Taylor was a better boxer than Duran though. Actually I don't think he was that good of a boxer at all, he relied on handspeed and the ability to take one to give three, four or five punches of his own.

At 5'7 and a 68" reach, Duran was not a big guy. He was actually thrown around by a rather skinny welterweight Zeferino "Speedy" Gonzalez in a tune-up welterweight bout which made most viewers think he did not stand much of a chance as a welter.

Most good boxers are able to move up and have success. Duran, if he only relied on his physical ability, could not have been able to match strength with welterweights and middleweights who were bigger than him. I'm sure that Carlos Palomino, Davey Moore and Iran Barkley were just as strong as he was if not stronger but Duran was simply a better boxer.



Taylor's long range game was better than Duran's, he had better legs to imo, he was aslo more fluid than Duran, he was a better counter puncher from long range, where as id say Duran was a better counter puncher from mid range. Difference being that Taylor had no punch at the higher weight to command respect, Duran still had some pop at the higher weight because he was a better puncher than Taylor. Duran also had a better chin than Taylor imo.

Duran's robustness is what helped him most of all up at higher weight imo, chin, strength and the ability to fight in the pocket. There are two ways to fight a puncher, lateral movement or you stay inside their power, Duran was was at his best fighting from mid range where he would not be outside on the end of Barkley's punches. Its not like Duran was that! successful at the higher weights either.



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TheGreatA
10-10-2009, 06:15 PM
Taylor's long range game was better than Duran's, he had better legs to imo, he was aslo more fluid than Duran, he was a better counter puncher from long range, where as id say Duran was a better counter puncher from mid range. Difference being that Taylor had no punch at the higher weight to command respect, Duran still had some pop at the higher weight because he was a better puncher than Taylor. Duran also had a better chin than Taylor imo.

Duran's robustness is what helped him most of all up at higher weight imo, chin, strength and the ability to fight in the pocket. There are two ways to fight a puncher, lateral movement or you stay inside their power, Duran was was at his best fighting from mid range where he would not be outside on the end of Barkley's punches. Its not like Duran was that! successful at the higher weights either.


I just can't help but to look at Pryor and Taylor (or Roy Jones for that matter) and see the things they can get away with due to sheer talent.

Meldrick was unbelievably fast but he never seemed like a very good technical boxer to me. I think he had a very solid chin at 140 but the Chavez beating may have affected him and he was fighting bigger men at 147. He also relied on being able to take a punch far too much and never had much in the way of defense.

Against Buddy McGirt, he was just able to overwhelm him, but against Howard Davis at a relatively early part in his career he had trouble with Davis's speed which matched his and boxing at long range.

Duran was not always successful at higher weights but he was more successful than I can imagine Meldrick or Pryor being. Both of them were also shot by their 30's while Duran still showed signs of true greatness at times. I do think it has a lot to do with Duran being a more skilled boxer.

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Dynamite Kid
10-10-2009, 06:27 PM
I just can't help but to look at Pryor and Taylor (or Roy Jones for that matter) and see the things they can get away with due to sheer talent.

Meldrick was unbelievably fast but he never seemed like a very good technical boxer to me. I think he had a very solid chin at 140 but the Chavez beating may have affected him and he was fighting bigger men at 147. He also relied on being able to take a punch far too much and never had much in the way of defense.

Against Buddy McGirt, he was just able to overwhelm him, but against Howard Davis at a relatively early part in his career he had trouble with Davis's speed which matched his and boxing at long range.

Duran was not always successful at higher weights but he was more successful than I can imagine Meldrick or Pryor being. Both of them were also shot by their 30's while Duran still showed signs of true greatness at times. I do think it has a lot to do with Duran being a more skilled boxer.

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I have a different criteria for technical Boxer than most, some people will look at Kessler as a technical fighter but i dont, what i view him as is conventional but not exactly technical. I can name a few things that i think Kessler does wrong that make him a predictable fighter, albeit effective.

Taylor has is a much better Boxer than Kessler from my perspective, he has more variety offensively, uses angles better and he is more fluid.

Now i bet you would say Kessler is a technical fighter? im not going to call you wrong because its just a criteria we differ on and either can be argued but that might be why we are on a different page regarding Duran & Pryor's skills.

I respect your opinion though TheGreatA

TheGreatA
10-10-2009, 06:43 PM
I have a different criteria for technical Boxer than most, some people will look at Kessler as a technical fighter but i dont, what i view him as is conventional but not exactly technical. I can name a few things that i think Kessler does wrong that make him a predictable fighter, albeit effective.

Taylor has is a much better Boxer than Kessler from my perspective, he has more variety offensively, uses angles better and he is more fluid.

Now i bet you would say Kessler is a technical fighter? im not going to call you wrong because its just a criteria we differ on and either can be argued but that might be why we are on a different page regarding Duran & Pryor's skills.

I respect your opinion though TheGreatA

I did think we had some differences in how we view a boxer's skills.

I do agree though that Kessler, despite being as "textbook" as it gets, is nowhere near the best boxer around today. Someone like Bernard Hopkins, although unconventional, is a far better boxer than he is.

Duran is not exactly textbook either and people might miss a lot of the things he can do at first glance. He feints, he rolls with the punches, he cuts the ring off, he places his punches with accuracy. Some would classify him as a simple face-first brawler which he clearly isn't.

I can see where you're coming from. Meldrick Taylor to me only got by because of his talent, Pryor on the other hand could be a very good boxer when he wanted to be. I'm not sure if he would have looked as good if he fought the kind of competition Duran did however, aside from Arguello.

Dynamite Kid
10-10-2009, 06:57 PM
I did think we had some differences in how we view a boxer's skills.

I do agree though that Kessler, despite being as "textbook" as it gets, is nowhere near the best boxer around today. Someone like Bernard Hopkins, although unconventional, is a far better boxer than he is.

Duran is not exactly textbook either and people might miss a lot of the things he can do at first glance. He feints, he rolls with the punches, he cuts the ring off, he places his punches with accuracy. Some would classify him as a simple face-first brawler which he clearly isn't.

I can see where you're coming from. Meldrick Taylor to me only got by because of his talent, Pryor on the other hand could be a very good boxer when he wanted to be. I'm not sure if he would have looked as good if he fought the kind of competition Duran did however, aside from Arguello.

..................Thats fair.

BennyST
10-12-2009, 01:08 AM
I must admit that I'm really surprised anyone can look at the Duran/De Jesus III fight which GreatA put up and not understand how skilled he was. He took a great lightweight, who aside from Duran dominated his division for years, and utterly took him apart without any crazy offense or brute strength or just insane stamina and non stop punching like Pryor did to most of his opponents.

Watch it properly. Look at him spin De Jesus after slipping a punch, turn him around and then counter him to the body and head in the corner in the eighth. That is as skillful as anything Toney, Whitaker, Pep or Mayweather have done. How can't you see that?

Something else that is very hard to notice about him, and this is the reason most people don't think he's skilled, is his feints. Watch the De Jesus fight...In fact, watch the first Leonard fight as that is a great example of it. He feints throughout that fight so brilliantly it is unbelievable. You'll rarely ever see that type of feinting by anyone. He has Leonard twitching and flinching all over the place, expecting one punch to come over the top or underneath and then the opposite happens. Check out the feint ...ummm... I can't remember the round. It's in the far right hand corner though. He dips down, feints his jab, Leonard pulls back, then he feints his right, Leonard drops his head a little and he comes through with a short left hook which cracks Leonard and then a right follows which also hammers home and staggers Leonard back into the corner.

He was especially a master of feinting with his left, then getting in his straight right which again, he did over and over and over in the Leonard fight.

As for not noticing these things, it's because often with a guy that fights on the inside and aggressively, you don't notice them whereas some that fights with only a counter style laying back, it's easier to notice because they are always waiting for a mistake instead of creating a mistake like Duran. No one I know feints today anything like Duran did.

Pryor was a great boxer and did have underrated skills. Just not that many. He was still faster than most of the guys he fought. He had good upper body and head movement, though not great. He was very good, but really, it's not that close. In fact, I can hardly even see how might think otherwise.

Dynamite: That example was at the start of round ten, not eight. About 20 seconds in or so, Duran gets backed into the corner and then spins De Jesus. Beautiful move. Check it out.

BennyST
10-12-2009, 01:20 AM
One other thing though. Taking apart a guy like Gaeten Hart and looking good and boxing doing it is not hard for someone of Pryor's skill. Taking apart someone that is as good a boxer as De Jesus is incredible though.

If you actually look at Pryor though and the mistakes he does make against Gaeten Hart, it's interesting that you think that's a great performance. He hangs his chin out, literally (I don't know if he daring Hart to hit it or what but he hangs it out all the time), he is wild with his counters and someone better and quicker would have countered him a lot.

I don't mean to sound rude or anything if I do. I don't know. It's hard to know what you sound like to other people when you type things on a computer. Anyway, you can see the mistakes Pryor makes. He's often off balance after a counter shot, often misses wildly and is lucky he never fought a very good counter puncher is that sense.

I don't know man, I just really don't see it. He was great but he wasn't really that good of a boxer. That performance looks much more showy to me than anything. As if he is deliberately playing to the crowd more than usual and doing little fun things that you do in the gym...You know, grab the rope and slide ala Walcott, side-step back and forth, then jump in with a punch....it looks good but is nothing more than show. It doesn't really do anything to confuse his opponent but it looks skillful and interesting to the crowd.

BennyST
10-12-2009, 01:26 AM
Duran moved up to welterweight to avoid facing Pryor according to Pryor`s Bio. This mite anger Duran fans but they felt the risk was too high for a Pryor fite as the money would have been lot less than Sugar Ray Leonard. Pryor on the other hand was plopped in the jr. welterweight division because he was avoided by the lightweight champions at the time. Leonard admitted to avoiding Pryor because money wasn`t right and Hearns had no excuses...He didn`t want to risk anything vs. Pryor. Only thing that finally beat Pryor was cokaine. He was great. Duran too.

Where did this weird myth ever come from? Both Duran and Leonard were never matched up to Pryor and any supposed ducking was never even possible. Duran was at 154 already years before Pryor even got semi noticed and won his first ever title and Leonard had already beaten massive superstars and retired for gods sake!

:nonono:

Arghhhh! Where does this idiocy come from?

Now, Pryor was given a shot at Duran when Duran moved up to 140/147 and was fighting bigger guys and the contenders of 140/147 but they never took it. It had nothing to do with Duran whom I'm pretty sure you'll understand by now took on every single opponent possible, contender, champion whatever.

Geez, why bother, these never change anyone's minds. :dunno:

Bushidō
10-12-2009, 01:37 AM
I must admit that I'm really surprised anyone can look at the Duran/De Jesus III fight which GreatA put up and not understand how skilled he was. He took a great lightweight, who aside from Duran dominated his division for years, and utterly took him apart without any crazy offense or brute strength or just insane stamina and non stop punching like Pryor did to most of his opponents.

Watch it properly. Look at him spin De Jesus after slipping a punch, turn him around and then counter him to the body and head in the corner in the eighth. That is as skillful as anything Toney, Whitaker, Pep or Mayweather have done. How can't you see that?

Something else that is very hard to notice about him, and this is the reason most people don't think he's skilled, is his feints. Watch the De Jesus fight...In fact, watch the first Leonard fight as that is a great example of it. He feints throughout that fight so brilliantly it is unbelievable. You'll rarely ever see that type of feinting by anyone. He has Leonard twitching and flinching all over the place, expecting one punch to come over the top or underneath and then the opposite happens. Check out the feint ...ummm... I can't remember the round. It's in the far right hand corner though. He dips down, feints his jab, Leonard pulls back, then he feints his right, Leonard drops his head a little and he comes through with a short left hook which cracks Leonard and then a right follows which also hammers home and staggers Leonard back into the corner.

He was especially a master of feinting with his left, then getting in his straight right which again, he did over and over and over in the Leonard fight.

As for not noticing these things, it's because often with a guy that fights on the inside and aggressively, you don't notice them whereas some that fights with only a counter style laying back, it's easier to notice because they are always waiting for a mistake instead of creating a mistake like Duran. No one I know feints today anything like Duran did.

Pryor was a great boxer and did have underrated skills. Just not that many. He was still faster than most of the guys he fought. He had good upper body and head movement, though not great. He was very good, but really, it's not that close. In fact, I can hardly even see how might think otherwise.

IMO people just look at the Duran that fought Leonard and judge him from that. Some people don't sit down to watch his older fights to see he wasn't just some wild man. He did so many things and sometimes it took several times watching the same tape to understand how great he was. The dude was a legend and IMO Duran was much better than Pryor

Thread Stealer
10-12-2009, 01:45 AM
Duran was a better boxer than Pryor.

Where did this weird myth ever come from? Both Duran and Leonard were never matched up to Pryor and any supposed ducking was never even possible. Duran was at 154 already years before Pryor even got semi noticed and won his first ever title and Leonard had already beaten massive superstars and retired for gods sake!

:nonono:

Arghhhh! Where does this idiocy come from?

Now, Pryor was given a shot at Duran when Duran moved up to 140/147 and was fighting bigger guys and the contenders of 140/147 but they never took it. It had nothing to do with Duran whom I'm pretty sure you'll understand by now took on every single opponent possible, contender, champion whatever.

Geez, why bother, these never change anyone's minds. :dunno:

The Leonard-Pryor thing is from Legendary Nights (a show that spawned many myths). It's just another example of how people, a phrase I heard and liked was "press conference fans", get their panties wet because someone calls out someone else (like it's a 5th-grade lunchroom fight rather than a multi-millionaire business).

Apparently Pryor wasn't happy with a half-million offer from Leonard and turned it down (this was from an SI article around this time). Considering the fact that Pryor made over a mil to fight Arguello, a fight he won, I'd say it was a smart business decision and you can call it a "low-ball" offer.

Pryor and Duran were supposed to fight at a catchweight of 150 at one point, but Pryor had all sorts of managerial problems and took awhile to sort them out. By the time they were sorted out, Duran had moved on (this is from both the SI article and Duran's biography "Hands of Stone")

BennyST
10-12-2009, 01:50 AM
Damn! I forgot how good he is in that fight (De Jesus III). I haven't watched it in a while.

How often though do you hear a guy like Angelo Dundee say "Duran don't get enough credit for being a real smart cookie in there. He's real cute, does a lot of things that you don't see. Slides and slips, rolls and feints. He's very cute. De Jesus is a real sharp-shooter and he just can't reach Duran. That's the mark of a great fighter"? For someone that has trained everyone from Ali to Leonard to Nunn and some of slickest fighters in history and more, that's amazingly high praise.

Gil Clancy also reinforces a similar point of view.

BennyST
10-12-2009, 01:53 AM
Duran was a better boxer than Pryor.



The Leonard-Pryor thing is from Legendary Nights (a show that spawned many myths). It's just another example of how people, a phrase I heard and liked was "press conference fans", get their panties wet because someone calls out someone else (like it's a 5th-grade lunchroom fight rather than a multi-millionaire business".

Apparently Pryor wasn't happy with a half-million offer from Leonard and turned it down (this was from an SI article around this time). Considering the fact that Pryor made over a mil to fight Arguello, a fight he won, I'd say it was a smart business decision and you can call it a "low-ball" offer.

Pryor and Duran were supposed to fight at a catchweight of 150 at one point, but Pryor had all sorts of managerial problems and took awhile to sort them out. By the time they were sorted out, Duran had moved on (this is from both the SI article and Duran's biography "Hands of Stone")

Ahhh, yes. The legendary 'Legendary Nights'. :lol1:

RightCross94
10-12-2009, 01:58 AM
Duran was a much better fighter, technical and otherwise, than Pryor ever was. Pryor was good, but ridiculously overrated, he is made out to be invincible by some.

Thread Stealer
10-12-2009, 02:08 AM
Many might suggest that Meldrick Taylor was a better Boxer than Duran but Taylor clearly could not handle it against bigger guys, i know people hold the view that he was past it after the Chavez fight but he was still a very good fighter. I think the real problem for Taylor was he was too short to Box from range and he did not have enough power to command the respect of bigger guys, he could not use defence to create is offense like Maywseather because besides being inferior to Mayweather on nearly every level his defence was his offence. The reason i use him as an example is because i think its illustrates that Boxing skills does not equate to success at higher weights, so the analogy that Duran was that good of a Boxer because he went up successfully in weight does not stack up, with me at least.

I think Duran was more polished and was more technically sound than Taylor, and simply had more tools in his arsenal. Taylor had amazingly fast hands, a type of speed very few are blessed with, and terrific stamina/workrate. What I thought was giving him so much success against Chavez was not necessarily his boxing skills, but the fact that he was so fast and active. At times he did some in-and-out movement (it was hard to really use the ring that well against a good ring-cutter like JCC), but during other times he just stayed in the pocket and outworked Chavez. He left himself pretty open however.

Duran didn't have that sort of blazing handspeed, although he was pretty fast himself, but mixed offense and defense better. He kept his right glove attached to the right side of his face to fend off left hooks. He rolled with shots well, ducked and slipped effectively, and could do it while being offensive. He could be on the front foot, pressuing an opponent, attacking him, and then slipping the counter shots well, or do it while at mid or long range.

If Duran were to fight Chavez, I think he'd win, and much of it would deal with more of a intelligent skill-set than the terrific speed and workrate mix that was enabling Taylor to fight so well.