View Full Version : P4P vs all time lists at a particular weight


JAB5239
10-06-2009, 02:11 AM
My p4p lists vary in some area's compared to my all time lists at some weights.

Two examples would be me rating Joe Louis higher at heavy than Ali, but Ali higher p4p. The other would be Sugar Ray Robinson at middleweight as compared to p4p.

While Ali's comp trumps Joe's at heavy, I find it more impressive Louis' reign. Some will say Ali would have beat those same fighters, but he didn't and had more controversial fights. I'm not trying to take away from Ali, this is only my opinion.

The other, Ray Robinson, Many cite his 5 time championship status at middleweight to seal his authority as p4p. Without a doubt this has to add to the argument, but I still wouldn't rank 4 or 5 middles ahead of him.

Anybody else see this dilemma or have an opinion?

LondonRingRules
10-08-2009, 12:17 AM
My p4p lists vary in some area's compared to my all time lists at some weights.

Two examples would be me rating Joe Louis higher at heavy than Ali, but Ali higher p4p. The other would be Sugar Ray Robinson at middleweight as compared to p4p.

While Ali's comp trumps Joe's at heavy, I find it more impressive Louis' reign. Some will say Ali would have beat those same fighters, but he didn't and had more controversial fights. I'm not trying to take away from Ali, this is only my opinion.

The other, Ray Robinson, Many cite his 5 time championship status at middleweight to seal his authority as p4p. Without a doubt this has to add to the argument, but I still wouldn't rank 4 or 5 middles ahead of him.

Anybody else see this dilemma or have an opinion?

** T'ain't a dilemma, it just happens that way, although I can't see Ali being p4p anything, but if he is logic would dictate Louis and Dempsey over him.

Look at IBRO rankings of Langford, 2nd at LH, 15th at heavy, 6th p4p, yet unranked nor honourable mention at lightweight with two guys he beat, Gans and Blackburn highly ranked.

Not sure what you're saying with Robby, IBRO p4p king, #2 middle, but I can't see him as a middle ranked above Monzon and Hagler when they completely dominated the division.

If heavies are included, Tyson another one who is never considered p4p, when he's one of the shortest heavies in one of the tallest eras, almost always giving up height, weight, and reach by significant margins. Even his comeback, where he gives that up along with having to train and fight on prozac and other strong sedatives. His record suffers, but it's still pretty fair for a guy so handicapped.