View Full Version : Is Manny Pacquiao an all-time great?


Stoppage
09-28-2009, 07:36 PM
I posted this here because this is the section with the wisest posters and I'm looking to get your opinions on this.

In my opinion, yes.

Manny Pacquiao is still fighting today but I think he's justified his claim as an all-time great fighter. Why? It's simple.

He's been a champion in six different weight classes which is an amazing achievement.

He's defeated the best in the world. This includes:

Marco Antonio Barrera
Erik Morales
Juan Manuel Marquez (while debatable, still a victory)
Oscar de la Hoya
Ricky Hatton

He has a match coming up against Miguel Cotto. If he beats him and claims another championship in a seventh weight class, then it just gives more reason to consider him an all-time great.

But the great thing about him is that he's brought the fights the fans want to see. He fights the best and gives it his all. That is something rare these days.

What are your opinions? Do you consider him an all-time great and why?

Dynamite Kid
09-28-2009, 08:00 PM
I posted this here because this is the section with the wisest posters and I'm looking to get your opinions on this.

In my opinion, yes.

Manny Pacquiao is still fighting today but I think he's justified his claim as an all-time great fighter. Why? It's simple.

He's been a champion in six different weight classes which is an amazing achievement.

He's defeated the best in the world. This includes:

Marco Antonio Barrera
Erik Morales
Juan Manuel Marquez (while debatable, still a victory)
Oscar de la Hoya
Ricky Hatton

He has a match coming up against Miguel Cotto. If he beats him and claims another championship in a seventh weight class, then it just gives more reason to consider him an all-time great.

But the great thing about him is that he's brought the fights the fans want to see. He fights the best and gives it his all. That is something rare these days.

What are your opinions? Do you consider him an all-time great and why?

Id agree, also the fact that he represents(puts it on the line) makes him more of a great Champion in my eyes.

Fighters that go that extra mile to entertain or put their stamp on a performance, that is the sign of a true great, not many fighters realize how important that is anymore imo.

Mr Boxing9
09-28-2009, 08:04 PM
This shound't even be up for debate, Manny is without dout a ATG fighter! FACT

1SILVA
09-28-2009, 08:13 PM
I posted this here because this is the section with the wisest posters and I'm looking to get your opinions on this.

In my opinion, yes.

Manny Pacquiao is still fighting today but I think he's justified his claim as an all-time great fighter. Why? It's simple.

He's been a champion in six different weight classes which is an amazing achievement.

He's defeated the best in the world. This includes:

Marco Antonio Barrera
Erik Morales
Juan Manuel Marquez (while debatable, still a victory)
Oscar de la Hoya
Ricky Hatton

He has a match coming up against Miguel Cotto. If he beats him and claims another championship in a seventh weight class, then it just gives more reason to consider him an all-time great.

But the great thing about him is that he's brought the fights the fans want to see. He fights the best and gives it his all. That is something rare these days.

What are your opinions? Do you consider him an all-time great and why?

His career speaks for itself. No question he is an ATG. One of the five greatest southpaws of all time

Boogie Nights
09-28-2009, 09:06 PM
why not

approved

JAB5239
09-29-2009, 04:39 AM
I posted this here because this is the section with the wisest posters and I'm looking to get your opinions on this.

In my opinion, yes.

Manny Pacquiao is still fighting today but I think he's justified his claim as an all-time great fighter. Why? It's simple.

He's been a champion in six different weight classes which is an amazing achievement.

He's defeated the best in the world. This includes:

Marco Antonio Barrera
Erik Morales
Juan Manuel Marquez (while debatable, still a victory)
Oscar de la Hoya
Ricky Hatton

He has a match coming up against Miguel Cotto. If he beats him and claims another championship in a seventh weight class, then it just gives more reason to consider him an all-time great.

But the great thing about him is that he's brought the fights the fans want to see. He fights the best and gives it his all. That is something rare these days.

What are your opinions? Do you consider him an all-time great and why?

I wouldn't argue his status as an all time great, its his ranking amongst the greats that is debatable. Lots and lots of great fighters in history that shouldn't be forgotten or over looked because Manny is fighting here and now. That said, Pac is one of my favorite fighters and would be a force in any era. Its hard to rank fighters today against those of the past because of the politics of boxing and how much less often they fight. Manny have definitely earned a place amongst the greats though, no doubt in my mind.

sonnyboyx2
09-29-2009, 09:27 AM
Manny Pacquiao is one of the greatest and most exciting fighters in the history of this sport, his record and his achievments are phenominal, he is without doubt one of the greatest fighters of all time, regardless of how his final career fights go, Pacquiao deserves his ATG status.

GJC
09-29-2009, 08:16 PM
Yes I would say he would be an ATG by any measure. Best p4p of his era, have to respect the multi weight titles though its not the be all and end all for me, fairly dominant reign at super bantamweight. Desperate to see him against Mayweather but think it is a fight that Maweather needs to define his career more than Pacquiao, he's done enough in my view.

The Noose
09-29-2009, 08:39 PM
Yes.
Even if he gets KO'd by Cotto and PBF.

One of the main boxes he has ticked is taking serious challenges, and winning in style as the underdog.

From Flyweight champ to WW champ would be astounding.

Obama
09-29-2009, 08:55 PM
Manny is an ATG, but his selection of opponents pre-Cotto has been rather similar if I must say so. He seems to avoid slick fighters at all costs. I think he's taking Cotto only because Freddie figures Cotto is a spent force now.

The Noose
09-29-2009, 11:23 PM
Manny is an ATG, but his selection of opponents pre-Cotto has been rather similar if I must say so. He seems to avoid slick fighters at all costs. I think he's taking Cotto only because Freddie figures Cotto is a spent force now.

I duuno about avoiding slick fighters. There arent many that are at the top.

Barrera, Morales, Marquez, Hatton, Oscar and Cotto are all dangerous fights.
Apart from Hatton they can all box very well, and had KO power.

I dont think there have been many big name slick boxers in those divisions.

MANGLER
09-29-2009, 11:26 PM
Yea he is. Dumb question.

BennyST
09-30-2009, 02:11 AM
Id agree, also the fact that he represents(puts it on the line) makes him more of a great Champion in my eyes.

Fighters that go that extra mile to entertain or put their stamp on a performance, that is the sign of a true great, not many fighters realize how important that is anymore imo.

Represents who? The Filipino's?

Obama
09-30-2009, 02:57 AM
I duuno about avoiding slick fighters. There arent many that are at the top.

Barrera, Morales, Marquez, Hatton, Oscar and Cotto are all dangerous fights.
Apart from Hatton they can all box very well, and had KO power.

I dont think there have been many big name slick boxers in those divisions.

The fact that he avoided Guzman for at least 4 weight divisions and chose David Diaz over Casamayor or Campbell says it all.

He's flat out avoided slick fighters. There is no denying it. Cotto is going to be a fight that puts him out of his element, I'm quite sure. People will write it off as due to the weight, but it's going to come down to styles.

KILLA RIGHT
09-30-2009, 04:34 AM
Beat a overated hatton,dead oscar,dead erik 2 and 3.washed up barrera the second time, jmm beat him twice.the only legit one out of them was the 1st barrera...he is very very overated..just my opinion

RightCross94
09-30-2009, 04:37 AM
I was thinking, If manny wins a WW strap, that is ****ing amazing seeing as he was a Flyweight champ.....the catchweight **** annoys me though

yeah he is an ATG

Obama
09-30-2009, 04:52 AM
Manny is an ATG but he's no Henry Armstrong. He got a Flyweight soup title because he was a teenager (ie still growing) and the division was weak.

JAB5239
09-30-2009, 06:28 AM
The fact that he avoided Guzman for at least 4 weight divisions and chose David Diaz over Casamayor or Campbell says it all.

He's flat out avoided slick fighters. There is no denying it. Cotto is going to be a fight that puts him out of his element, I'm quite sure. People will write it off as due to the weight, but it's going to come down to styles.

Im curious as to the timeline and when Pac avoided Guzman. Its only my opinion, but it seems to me Pac had bigger fish to fry and to the best of my recollection Guzman never distinguished himself against Morales, Barrera or Marquez. He also went tooth and nail against Barrios, who isn't half the fighter of Manny.

As far as the Pac-Diaz fight and him not choosing Nate or Casa.......If Floyd can get a pass for taking on a superlightweight at welter, should Pac get a pass for taking on Diaz in his first fight at 135?

brown mamba
09-30-2009, 10:49 PM
Beat a overated hatton,dead oscar,dead erik 2 and 3.washed up barrera the second time, jmm beat him twice.the only legit one out of them was the 1st barrera...he is very very overated..just my opinion

ATG or not? i think that is the question.

Obama
10-01-2009, 01:05 AM
Im curious as to the timeline and when Pac avoided Guzman. Its only my opinion, but it seems to me Pac had bigger fish to fry and to the best of my recollection Guzman never distinguished himself against Morales, Barrera or Marquez. He also went tooth and nail against Barrios, who isn't half the fighter of Manny.

As far as the Pac-Diaz fight and him not choosing Nate or Casa.......If Floyd can get a pass for taking on a superlightweight at welter, should Pac get a pass for taking on Diaz in his first fight at 135?

Poor excuse to duck Guzman. Pac chased fighters in other divisions while Guzman was always in his.

Let's not bring Floyd into a Pac thread. Floyd fought every type of fighter there is. He isn't untested against any fighting style. I didn't call Pac an avoider of quality opponents, I called him an avoider of slick boxing styles.

JAB5239
10-01-2009, 01:28 AM
Poor excuse to duck Guzman. Pac chased fighters in other divisions while Guzman was always in his.

Guzman wasn't always in his. And even if he was, why wasn't he facing the Morales', Barrera's and JMM's? You're riding Manny for not fighting Guzman, but who was Guzman fighting?

Let's not bring Floyd into a Pac thread. Floyd fought every type of fighter there is. He isn't untested against any fighting style. I didn't call Pac an avoider of quality opponents, I called him an avoider of slick boxing styles.


Saying Floyd fought every type of fighter doesn't excuse him from not making fights against the best fighters now. Pacquiao has consistently moved up to take on the best fighters. If the best fighters didn't happen to be slick, how is that Manny's fault?

Obama
10-01-2009, 02:44 AM
A post prime Morales, Hatton, and flat out over the hill DLH were never the best fighters. Stop bringing up Floyd, this is about Pac. Guzman would have been the 3rd best fighter, given prime status, Pac ever faced. This is not remotely debatable to me.

And chalk up my boy Zahir Raheem as yet another slick guy Pac avoided. Morales, with the last shred of greatness left in his body, beat Pac. Then he lost to Rahim, and was clearly done as a top fighter at that point. What does Pac do? He fights Morales 2 more times and never even considers Raheem.

Ziggy Stardust
10-01-2009, 10:32 AM
Saying Floyd fought every type of fighter doesn't excuse him from not making fights against the best fighters now. Pacquiao has consistently moved up to take on the best fighters. If the best fighters didn't happen to be slick, how is that Manny's fault?

And who the hell is Guzman anyway? He's hardly a name that comes up when people talk about "must be made" fights. And since when is "slick" the end-all and be-all of boxing? Slick doesn't "best": It's just another syle of fighting and nothing more.

Poet

talip bin osman
10-01-2009, 10:49 AM
reading obama's posts makes me feel like im reading flawless'... obama is like flawless on steroids...

anyway, maybe it was hard for manny pacquiao to say no to oscar de la hoya when oscar offered him to fight him...

who needs zahir when u hav the opportunity to fight the most bankable boxing star of all time?

i think even the great joan guzman himself would not hesitate to fight oscar if he were to trade places with MP that time...

mrboxer
10-01-2009, 12:04 PM
no he is not an all time great, in his weight classes though,i have him in the top 20 alltime

Obama
10-01-2009, 01:31 PM
You guys are missing the point. I'm not saying Pac made poor business decisions. I'm merely saying he's failed to showcase the range of his skills because his opposition lacks diversity. And when you measure how great a fighter is, if they lack diversity in opposition, it is a detriment to their evaluation. Simple as that really.

Not everyone looks great against everybody, period. When a guy only fights guys he can look good against, it makes him seem better than he actually is, and causes people to delude themselves into rating the guy far higher than he ever should have been.

Obama
10-01-2009, 01:34 PM
no he is not an all time great, in his weight classes though,i have him in the top 20 alltime

And what exactly is "his weight class".

Ziggy Stardust
10-01-2009, 02:12 PM
When a guy only fights guys he can look good against,

You mean like Floyd Mayweather Jr.?


it makes him seem better than he actually is,

You mean like Floyd Mayweather Jr.?


and causes people to delude themselves into rating the guy far higher than he ever should have been.

You mean like Floyd Mayweather Jr's derranged nuthuggers?

Poet

Obama
10-01-2009, 02:17 PM
Poet, your criticisms could be looked at with some kind of credibility if you didn't rate RJJ as a top 20 ATG. Clearly the biggest double standard of all time.

And Floyd didn't look good against everybody he fought. Castillo gave him hell, so did Augustus, and so did Judah b4 he gassed. Floyd fights fighters of all styles, Pac doesn't. Only point I had to make about Floyd this thread was that. Focus on Pac, not Floyd. You're all in love with Floyd and can't help it I know.

Ziggy Stardust
10-01-2009, 02:40 PM
Poet, your criticisms could be looked at with some kind of credibility if you didn't rate RJJ as a top 20 ATG. Clearly the biggest double standard of all time.

And some people think I don't rate Roy Jones high enough especially since they consider him the most gifted fighter to ever lace them up. I'm certainly not going to drop him in the ratings to please the likes of YOU.


And Floyd didn't look good against everybody he fought. Castillo gave him hell, so did Augustus, and so did Judah b4 he gassed. Floyd fights fighters of all styles, Pac doesn't.

Correction: Floyd throws 30 potshots a round and runs like fvck.....that's not "fighting".


Only point I had to make about Floyd this thread was that. Focus on Pac, not Floyd. You're all in love with Floyd and can't help it I know.

Just because YOU swing on Fraud Gayweather's nutsack doesn't mean everyone does.

Poet

Obama
10-01-2009, 02:48 PM
Your dislike for the man causes you to ignore sound reasoning altogether. The man is a more complete fighter than Roy ever was. If you rank Roy that high, Floyd should surely be there too. It's not like you can scapegoat on the resume card. Roy doesn't have a better one.

Just because Roy's style entertains you more doesn't make him super great, and Floyd not so.

And stop bringing up where other idiots rank Roy. The people that matter don't put him in the top 20. Plain and simple.

Ziggy Stardust
10-01-2009, 03:00 PM
Your dislike for the man causes you to ignore sound reasoning altogether. The man is a more complete fighter than Roy ever was. If you rank Roy that high, Floyd should surely be there too. It's not like you can scapegoat on the resume card. Roy doesn't have a better one.

Jones is better than Mayweather ever dreamed of being. Floyd should set his sights a bit lower and consider comparing himself to Hector Camacho which is a FAR more appropriate comparison.


Just because Roy's style entertains you more doesn't make him super great, and Floyd not so.

Simply because you have a fondness for "slick" fighters doesn't mean you should confuse your personal predlictions for an objective view of what is best.


And stop bringing up where other idiots rank Roy. The people that matter don't put him in the top 20. Plain and simple.

In that case why should it matter where YOU (who I consider an exceptionally large idiot) rank Jones? And who are YOU to decide who "matters" and who does not? When did YOU become the arbiter of who's views matter? I think you're having meglamaniacal delusions.

Poet

Obama
10-01-2009, 03:20 PM
Poet, you are possibly the biggest loser I have ever met online. You're not even worth responding to anymore. Get a life.

Ziggy Stardust
10-01-2009, 03:27 PM
Poet, you are possibly the biggest loser I have ever met online. You're not even worth responding to anymore. Get a life.

:haha: Whatever! :rofl: For what it's worth you're the most pretensious twat I'VE ever met on-line.....not to mention someone who has VERY little to be pretensious about! The truth is someone could learn more about boxing from a skid-row wino than they ever could from you :rofl:

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
10-01-2009, 03:28 PM
Poet, you are possibly the biggest loser I have ever met online. You're not even worth responding to anymore. Get a life.

BTW, your response is that of someone who's nows he's been hoisted on his own petard. Too bad so sad :killyou:

Poet

gqjohnb
10-01-2009, 03:53 PM
Manny is an ATG, but his selection of opponents pre-Cotto has been rather similar if I must say so. He seems to avoid slick fighters at all costs. I think he's taking Cotto only because Freddie figures Cotto is a spent force now.

Yeah he's guilty of doing what most fighters do which is avoid the styles and talent level that give him big problems. I like him but to say he has always taken the most competitive fight out there for his entire career is misleading and he hasn't faced as many different styles as guys like cotto, moseley, De la Hoya, and mayweather have faced. I think he still has a little bit to prove before putting him above mosely, DLH and mayweather because while he did face three guys that many consider great fighters in his prior weight division these three guys were of similar talent level and stature marquez and morales used similar styles against him while the 4 guys i've stated above have faced a myriad of different styles and have all shown pretty good resilience against them. I'm open to a debate on this though what do you guys think about that?

JAB5239
10-01-2009, 04:15 PM
A post prime Morales, Hatton, and flat out over the hill DLH were never the best fighters. Stop bringing up Floyd, this is about Pac. Guzman would have been the 3rd best fighter, given prime status, Pac ever faced. This is not remotely debatable to me.

First off, you're not answering my questions. Second, I won't stop bringing up Floyd because you want to criticize one fighter yet give him a pass. And third, who did Guzman ever fight to establish himself as this force that Pac avoided? You're slamming Pac for not fighting him yet he hasn't taken on anywhere near close to the comp Pac has fought.

And chalk up my boy Zahir Raheem as yet another slick guy Pac avoided. Morales, with the last shred of greatness left in his body, beat Pac. Then he lost to Rahim, and was clearly done as a top fighter at that point. What does Pac do? He fights Morales 2 more times and never even considers Raheem.

The same Raheem who lost to Rocky Juarez and Acelino Frietas? Lol, Pac avoided him? :lol1:

Obama
10-01-2009, 04:37 PM
Freitas robbed Raheem but that's besides the point. The point is Raheem vs Morales happened on the same card as Pac vs Velazquez. Both Morales and Pac were expected to win, and this would set up a second meeting between the two. Pac won his bout, but Morales ended up losing a fight deemed upset of the year by Ring Magazine (an upset I predicted no less). So what happens? Pac just goes ahead and fights Morales anyways in a shameless fight for the money that proved nothing. The only historically significant fight between Pac and Morales is the first one, the one Morales won. Even if Pac needed some kind of personal satisfaction in avenging a loss, his next fight should have been Raheem. Did it happen? No...he just fights Morales again. He even takes another fight in between against Oscar Larios, so it's not like every fight he has was a money fight at this point.

But because Freitas robbed Raheem it made him an unacceptable opponent. Riiiiiiight. :nonono:

As for Guzman, he beat Soto, the current #1 SFW in the world. His status as a top fighter is not up for debate. As for him not proving himself worthy for Pac, you can't be serious. Guzman and Pac were both SBWs back in 2001. Pac didn't prove himself as a top fighter until he beat Barrera at the end of 2003, in the FW division. Who were these more credible fighters Pac was beating at SBW that caused him to ignore Guzman?

Pac goes life and death with a good counter puncher (Marquez). Him not fighting slick fighters is no coincidence. He's also never fought a fighter with fast hands. He's also never fought a defensive wizard. The guys exposure to styles is far from diverse. It's no coincidence, and that's the bottom line.

JAB5239
10-01-2009, 04:46 PM
Pac goes life and death with a good counter puncher (Marquez). Him not fighting slick fighters is no coincidence. He's also never fought a fighter with fast hands. He's also never fought a defensive wizard. The guys exposure to styles is far from diverse. It's no coincidence, and that's the bottom line.

Why were none of these so called slick fighters ever the best in their divisions once Pacquiao came to boxing prominence? You're trying to say Pac avoided them even though he took on the best, but make the excuse that Floyd has fought all styles even though he doesn't fight the best. Can you not see the double standard you're applying?

Obama
10-01-2009, 04:57 PM
Why were none of these so called slick fighters ever the best in their divisions once Pacquiao came to boxing prominence? You're trying to say Pac avoided them even though he took on the best, but make the excuse that Floyd has fought all styles even though he doesn't fight the best. Can you not see the double standard you're applying?

All I see is you not understanding what I'm typing. Casa and Campbell were better than David Diaz, and still are. So much for Pac fighting the best LW. Guzman was better than anyone Pac faced at SBW. So much for there to.

Already went over the Raheem issue, either it sunk in or it didn't. He was a SFW.

Hatton hasn't been the best at JWW for a while despite holding onto the title, and after Lamont Peterson pulls the upset I expect him to, the JWW will have another top slick fighter that Pacquiao won't fight.

As for Floyd, he fought the best at 130 and 135, wanted to fight the best at 140 but was ducked, and is about to fight the best at 147 now. But like I said before, this thread has nothing to do with Floyd.

Bigmacpoper
10-01-2009, 05:01 PM
He stops a faded,weight drained De La Hoya and a bumbling,clueless mauler in Ricky Hatton and somehow he is elevated to ATG status,ATG fighters consistently fight the best fighters at their respective divisions.

Pacquiao-Barrera 2 didn't mean a damn thing,Barrera had just lost Marquez and Pacquiao had already destroyed Barrera four years earlier when it actually mattered,Guzman besides Marquez was the best at 130 and he didn't fight him.

Campbell,Casamayor and who does Pacquiao choose? limited David Diaz who was fortunate enough to have recieved a decision over a washed up Erik Morales(the same Morales who two years earlier lost an almost landslide decision to Raheem)

Timothy Bradley is the best at 140 and not Ricky Hatton and anyone who is foolish to argue otherwise is a moron and a clown(have you met poet?)

I don't blame Pacquiao for fighting the likes of De La Hoya and Hatton as they were big fights that offered great money and great exposure,but there is absolutely no excuse for not fighting legitimate fighters along with these superfights

Poet, you are possibly the biggest loser I have ever met online. You're not even worth responding to anymore. Get a life.

Poet,a loser? Surely you jest dunce? No forty year old wearing pedo glasses, reading poetry over youtube could possibly be a loser.

Ziggy Stardust
10-01-2009, 05:03 PM
Why were none of these so called slick fighters ever the best in their divisions once Pacquiao came to boxing prominence? You're trying to say Pac avoided them even though he took on the best, but make the excuse that Floyd has fought all styles even though he doesn't fight the best. Can you not see the double standard you're applying?

Meanwhile Pretty Gay Floyd cherry picks fights against:

A. A past it Featherweight (Marquez)
B. A no-skilled brawler, face-first brawler (Hatten, who I believe Manny's getting slammed for facing.....double standards?)
C. A past it De La Hoya (who he, unlike Manny, ran from)

Poet

gqjohnb
10-01-2009, 05:07 PM
Why were none of these so called slick fighters ever the best in their divisions once Pacquiao came to boxing prominence? You're trying to say Pac avoided them even though he took on the best, but make the excuse that Floyd has fought all styles even though he doesn't fight the best. Can you not see the double standard you're applying?

The only guy I can really feel that floyd should have fought at WW up to this point would be cotto and that fight not happening has more to do with politics and bull **** when I look at all the facts. I will say thats just me from the outside looking in and that its a possibility floyd just didn't want to fight him because he was intimidated but that doesn't really make since to me seeing as I see cotto's style and talent level as not being something floyd would have trouble with. Margarito? no because he was too busy losing to other fighters and now all the sudden he wants to go with the P4P over big money fights like DLH and Hatton just doesn't make since and P will is a middleweight that came down to the WW division to try to make a name for himself but couldn't get a fight with anybody worth it which to me means it's not floyd's responsibility to be the litmus test. I do think that he should not have retired early and was disappointed with that but now the guys back so we should judge him on what happens in the near future. So I think both Manny and Mayweather should be judged upon their resume's as they both have their shortcomings and only Mayweather is for the most part and that is where the double-standard lies. but that's how I feel.

JAB5239
10-01-2009, 05:09 PM
All I see is you not understanding what I'm typing. Casa and Campbell were better than David Diaz, and still are. So much for Pac fighting the best LW.

Why is it you wanted Pac to fight the best lightweight in his first fight there, but give Floyd passes? Im just curious.

Guzman was better than anyone Pac faced at SBW. So much for there to.

And who faced the better fighters in that division, Pac or Guzman?

Already went over the Raheem issue, either it sunk in or it didn't. He was a SFW.


I could say the same back to you.

Hatton hasn't been the best at JWW for a while despite holding onto the title, and after Lamont Peterson pulls the upset I expect him to, the JWW will have another top slick fighter that Pacquiao won't fight.

Hatton was universally regarded as the best at 140, especially after beating Malignaggi. He never lost there till the Pacquiao fight.

As for Floyd, he fought the best at 130 and 135, wanted to fight the best at 140 but was ducked, and is about to fight the best at 147 now. But like I said before, this thread has nothing to do with Floyd.


So why didn't he fight Casamoyer, Frietas, Stevie Johnson and others that are not coming immediately to mind?

And the thread has nothing to do with Floyd, but Im asking because you have st an obvious double standard.

JAB5239
10-01-2009, 05:13 PM
He stops a faded,weight drained De La Hoya and a bumbling,clueless mauler in Ricky Hatton and somehow he is elevated to ATG status,ATG fighters consistently fight the best fighters at their respective divisions.

Pacquiao-Barrera 2 didn't mean a damn thing,Barrera had just lost Marquez and Pacquiao had already destroyed Barrera four years earlier when it actually mattered,Guzman besides Marquez was the best at 130 and he didn't fight him.

Campbell,Casamayor and who does Pacquiao choose? limited David Diaz who was fortunate enough to have recieved a decision over a washed up Erik Morales(the same Morales who two years earlier lost an almost landslide decision to Raheem)

Timothy Bradley is the best at 140 and not Ricky Hatton and anyone who is foolish to argue otherwise is a moron and a clown(have you met poet?)

I don't blame Pacquiao for fighting the likes of De La Hoya and Hatton as they were big fights that offered great money and great exposure,but there is absolutely no excuse for not fighting legitimate fighters along with these superfights



Poet,a loser? Surely you jest dunce? No forty year old wearing pedo glasses, reading poetry over youtube could possibly be a loser.

You got banned again?

Bigmacpoper
10-01-2009, 05:19 PM
You should know SLABS,you along with a few others(who probably sit down while taking a piss) are the ones who reported me.

My comments in the mmGAY section probably didn't help either.Something is definately wrong with the world when you can't even support your own sport.Boxingscene has nothing to do with boxing,it obviously has ties with the mmGAY forum that is Sherdog.

Obama
10-01-2009, 05:20 PM
I'd fact check your last response to me Jab. It's not lookin good. Otherwise I'll have to rip it apart when I get time later. ATM, I'm out. Peace.

JAB5239
10-01-2009, 05:31 PM
I'd fact check your last response to me Jab. It's not lookin good. Otherwise I'll have to rip it apart when I get time later. ATM, I'm out. Peace.

I'd rather you rip it apart my friend. If Im wrong I will be big enough to admit it. If its arguable you know we'll keep arguing. :fing02: Peace!

JAB5239
10-01-2009, 05:35 PM
You should know SLABS,you along with a few others(who probably sit down while taking a piss) are the ones who reported me.

My comments in the mmGAY section probably didn't help either.Something is definately wrong with the world when you can't even support your own sport.Boxingscene has nothing to do with boxing,it obviously has ties with the mmGAY forum that is Sherdog.

Bwaaahhahhaaahaa!!! You little candy ass! Show proof that I reported you for ANYTHING or stop whining. Maybe its time you try a forum where they could appreciate your brand of rubbish. :lol1:

Bigmacpoper
10-01-2009, 05:40 PM
Oh knows,poet has reported me and put me on ignore.Whatever will I do now that the forty year old loser who doesn't leave his house has reported me?

He even gave me red karma

"Your alt has been reported and you've been ignored by me again"

When was the last time you had sex Poet? And fantasies concerning nine year old girls most surely would not count.



Bwaaahhahhaaahaa!!! You little candy ass! Show proof that I reported you for ANYTHING or stop whining. Maybe its time you try a forum where they could appreciate your brand of rubbish. :lol1:

A whiner accusing others of being a whiner? Oh dear,have you ever met my dear friend irony? you two would get along just great.

The fact that you have acted so defensive at the accusation gives a further solid argument to my accusation

JAB5239
10-01-2009, 05:48 PM
A whiner accusing others of being a whiner? Oh dear,have you ever met my dear friend irony? you two would get along just great.

The fact that you have acted so defensive at the accusation gives a further solid argument to my accusation

You're so stupid! I was mimicking you defending the accusations of you being an alt of Slimey Limey and others. Opps!!! Put your foot in you mouth again, huh?

Stoppage
10-01-2009, 05:53 PM
Every time there's a thread with lots of opinions, there ends up being multiple arguments that has nothing to do with the topic. How about we keep it simple.

And to those who said Pacquiao avoided the best fighters: it could be true. He didn't face everyone but he did face some. And those some had good credibility. I'm talking about the ones besides Morales, Barrera and Marquez.

It would make sense financially that he fought de la Hoya because it was a huge payday. And Hatton was without a doubt the first or second best in the division and he knocked Hatton out in two rounds.

JAB5239
10-01-2009, 05:57 PM
Every time there's a thread with lots of opinions, there ends up being multiple arguments that has nothing to do with the topic. How about we keep it simple.

And to those who said Pacquiao avoided the best fighters: it could be true. He didn't face everyone but he did face some. And those some had good credibility. I'm talking about the ones besides Morales, Barrera and Marquez.

It would make sense financially that he fought de la Hoya because it was a huge payday. And Hatton was without a doubt the first or second best in the division and he knocked Hatton out in two rounds.

Pac has fought most of the best fighters available. I can't see trying to discredit him for not fighting a certain type of fighter when that fighter wasn't considered better than the fighters Pac fought, or didn't beat fighters equal or better than the fighters Manny fought.

Ziggy Stardust
10-01-2009, 06:08 PM
Pac has fought most of the best fighters available. I can't see trying to discredit him for not fighting a certain type of fighter when that fighter wasn't considered better than the fighters Pac fought, or didn't beat fighters equal or better than the fighters Manny fought.

Well, you have to remember the very narrow and warped framework that Obama sees boxing through: ie. the worst "slick" fighter is better than the best "non-slick" fighter. As I noted before he's incapable of differentiating between his own personal preferences and an fact.

Poet

Bigmacpoper
10-01-2009, 08:24 PM
[/B]

You're so stupid! I was mimicking you defending the accusations of you being an alt of Slimey Limey and others. Opps!!! Put your foot in you mouth again, huh?

Oh how stupid I was to not realise such an obvious attempt at a piss take,how foolish of me not realise the wit of ole slabs.

Yet another attempt of you trying to claim superiority in an argument that doesn't amount to anything,we call that a Superiority complex and you PedoPoet,dynamite tit suffer greatly from this.

Unless giving somebody red karma out of spite is anything less than cause for concern.It's the internet pal,open up the curtains and let some light in.

Leakbeak
10-01-2009, 11:20 PM
Larry Merchant has blagged alot of people in the head! He ain't no modern day Harry Carpenter who takes on all comers, and it is mainly because Arum is a nobhead but also because Manny doesn't want to say anything and likes to hide behind him. Manny might be willing but the filhty old cunt left several years after the controversial JMM fight before making a rematch. After that they didn't want no more because they knew they had lost. A real throwback wouldn't have said 'my manager makes up my mind' and would have said something to make the fight happen and hype it up! Apart from that, he doesn't really know hwo to box and is not very gifted on the technical front. He's exciting and has natural gifts but not much more to cement an ATG status. Most of his scalps were over the hill, and the biggest ones were Mayweathers left overs

JAB5239
10-02-2009, 07:22 AM
Oh how stupid I was to not realise such an obvious attempt at a piss take,how foolish of me not realise the wit of ole slabs.

Yet another attempt of you trying to claim superiority in an argument that doesn't amount to anything,we call that a Superiority complex and you PedoPoet,dynamite tit suffer greatly from this.

Unless giving somebody red karma out of spite is anything less than cause for concern.It's the internet pal,open up the curtains and let some light in.

(Sniffle) Awww, somebody's feelings are hurt. :crying:

hugh grant
10-02-2009, 07:39 AM
Simply put he is an ATG because people keep telling him things he isnt supposed to be able to do, and the he goes ahead and does it. They said he couldnt beat Hatton at 140 and he does. They said DLH was too big, and Pac said he wasnt too big, answering with his fists.
Onces hes proved you wrong you cant then go making excuses for yourselfs. You should just give Pac the credit in the first place, so you dont have to try rectify your wrong predictions, and that you got it wrong.

Just say he is an ATG and you wont go wrong.

vince_carter123
10-02-2009, 07:52 AM
goodness... OF COURSE

Bigmacpoper
10-02-2009, 08:14 AM
(Sniffle) Awww, somebody's feelings are hurt. :crying:


Clearly my words are getting through inside of that thick skull of yours,well atleast you never denied the accusations I threw your way,you never admitted any faults in your character,and at this stage,I nor anyone else would expect you to do so.You can be helped however and this is perhaps the first chapter on a new stage in your life.

mickey malone
10-02-2009, 10:01 AM
I can't think of a better fighter to come out of Asia, so YES he is...

Ziggy Stardust
10-02-2009, 12:57 PM
Larry Merchant has blagged alot of people in the head! He ain't no modern day Harry Carpenter who takes on all comers, and it is mainly because Arum is a nobhead but also because Manny doesn't want to say anything and likes to hide behind him. Manny might be willing but the filhty old cunt left several years after the controversial JMM fight before making a rematch. After that they didn't want no more because they knew they had lost. A real throwback wouldn't have said 'my manager makes up my mind' and would have said something to make the fight happen and hype it up! Apart from that, he doesn't really know hwo to box and is not very gifted on the technical front. He's exciting and has natural gifts but not much more to cement an ATG status. Most of his scalps were over the hill, and the biggest ones were Mayweathers left overs

Rafael Benitez heading for yet another ban! :rofl:

Poet

Silencers
10-02-2009, 01:21 PM
Yes, I believe he is.

Obama
10-03-2009, 03:26 AM
So why didn't he fight Casamoyer, Frietas, Stevie Johnson and others that are not coming immediately to mind?

And the thread has nothing to do with Floyd, but Im asking because you have st an obvious double standard.

I wish you wouldn't write comments inside of a quote, I can't quote it and it makes it hard for me to see what you said. Anyways I will attempt to address the issues in the order you brought them up in.

The issue is not so much that Pac didn't fight Campbell or Casa in his first LW fight (although Marquez did, and Guzman was scheduled to in their first LW bouts). The issue is that Pac fought David Diaz instead, which was nothing more than cherry picking a soup title. Cherry picking a soup title from a guy who didn't even deserve to wear the title, whilst having NO other intentions of fighting anyone else in the division is unacceptable. Mayweather cannot be accused of this. So you need to clarify exactly what I'm giving Floyd a pass on. It's clearly not the same situation. Not to mention Floyd's first LW title fight was against the #1 LW in the world....close the book on this chapter.

Who faced better fighters in the SBW division, Pac or Guzman, is not relevant. What's relevant is that Pac wasn't fighting the best of the division, as the best was clearly Guzman. They were both Champions. Guzman was and still is undefeated. Guzman KOed a guy Pac couldn't beat. It's a no brainer that the fight should have been made. And the only thing superior about Pac's SBW resume is the fact that he was more active. Guzman just isn't a very active fighter. Being a highly active is not required for having an elite status, or making you worth fighting.

About Hatton, I'm not debating that he was Ring Champion. Clearly he was. I'm telling you the man was past his prime. Floyd ruined him. It's evident in the Lazcano fight. Beating feather fisted Paulie who decided to stop fighting after the first round (which he easily won) is not grounds for proving your still the best of the division. He cherry picked Paulie, who was on a string of ****ty performances, getting at least 2 gift decisions from N'dou and Ngoudjo. You can't compare the Paulie that fought Diaz to the one that fought N'dou, Ngoudjo, and Hatton. At this point Bradley was clearly better than Hatton. There's at least 5 JWWs I pick to beat Hatton now, not including JMM, who's highly interested in fighting him now.

Now for what I could ACTUALLY quote from you...

It's a damn shame he didn't fight Casa. He was interested in the fight. Had Casa not been robbed by Popo it prolly would have been made. Popo didn't move up to Lightweight until Floyd left. And Johnston wasn't fought because he couldn't avenge his loss to Castillo. Johnston never won a high profile fight again.

I don't see this double standard you're talking about here. I never claimed Floyd fought all of the best. I don't think it's OK regardless of excuses, and I'm glad he's going to correct that now. I also didn't claim Pac avoided fighting the best...I merely said he avoided fighting his most difficult opponents. Floyd didn't. There's no double standard there, you can't compare apples to oranges.

Ex) Emanuel Augustus was much more difficult than Diego Corrales. Was Augustus REMOTELY close to being as great as Corrales? Hellllllll no. But Floyd fought him.

Why did I bring any of this up in the first place? Since we're drifting here I'll just remind you because this seriously needs to end. I brought it up because Pac's overall performance against his competition is deceptive. The 3 times he got tested in his relevant career he lost a UD, drew, and won a SD. And the draw and SD could have easily been UD losses. Based off his fighting style, I'd bet any amount of money a slick counter puncher would also give him absolute hell.

And that's the bottom line.

And by the way, thanks for this argument, you got me turned red by the Pac Hugger squad. :rofl:

Is Manny Pacquiao an... 10-02-2009 06:54 AM LOLAGE! PWNAGE! i disapprove!
Is Manny Pacquiao an... 10-02-2009 06:53 AM joartccjr. EDUCATE YOURSELF.
Is Manny Pacquiao an... 10-02-2009 06:52 AM MR. SMILEY PAC HATER
Is Manny Pacquiao an... 10-02-2009 06:49 AM Domayn pac is atg
Is Manny Pacquiao an... 10-02-2009 06:47 AM PACHUGGER PAC IS GOD

Well, you have to remember the very narrow and warped framework that Obama sees boxing through: ie. the worst "slick" fighter is better than the best "non-slick" fighter. As I noted before he's incapable of differentiating between his own personal preferences and an fact.

Poet

If this isn't the pot calling the kettle black. Don't reverse your problems then project them onto me. I'm not the opposite of you. You merely lack the mental capacity to understand me. And if you haven't noticed, Jab doesn't share your opinions of me so direct your childish responses to people who are as sad as you are. Instead you leave Jab in an uncomfortable position where he ends up not responding to you.

JAB5239
10-03-2009, 04:19 AM
I wish you wouldn't write comments inside of a quote, I can't quote it and it makes it hard for me to see what you said. Anyways I will attempt to address the issues in the order you brought them up in.

The issue is not so much that Pac didn't fight Campbell or Casa in his first LW fight (although Marquez did, and Guzman was scheduled to in their first LW bouts). The issue is that Pac fought David Diaz instead, which was nothing more than cherry picking a soup title. Cherry picking a soup title from a guy who didn't even deserve to wear the title, whilst having NO other intentions of fighting anyone else in the division is unacceptable. Mayweather cannot be accused of this. So you need to clarify exactly what I'm giving Floyd a pass on. It's clearly not the same situation. Not to mention Floyd's first LW title fight was against the #1 LW in the world....close the book on this chapter.

Who faced better fighters in the SBW division, Pac or Guzman, is not relevant. What's relevant is that Pac wasn't fighting the best of the division, as the best was clearly Guzman. They were both Champions. Guzman was and still is undefeated. Guzman KOed a guy Pac couldn't beat. It's a no brainer that the fight should have been made. And the only thing superior about Pac's SBW resume is the fact that he was more active. Guzman just isn't a very active fighter. Being a highly active is not required for having an elite status, or making you worth fighting.

About Hatton, I'm not debating that he was Ring Champion. Clearly he was. I'm telling you the man was past his prime. Floyd ruined him. It's evident in the Lazcano fight. Beating feather fisted Paulie who decided to stop fighting after the first round (which he easily won) is not grounds for proving your still the best of the division. He cherry picked Paulie, who was on a string of ****ty performances, getting at least 2 gift decisions from N'dou and Ngoudjo. You can't compare the Paulie that fought Diaz to the one that fought N'dou, Ngoudjo, and Hatton. At this point Bradley was clearly better than Hatton. There's at least 5 JWWs I pick to beat Hatton now, not including JMM, who's highly interested in fighting him now.

Now for what I could ACTUALLY quote from you...

It's a damn shame he didn't fight Casa. He was interested in the fight. Had Casa not been robbed by Popo it prolly would have been made. Popo didn't move up to Lightweight until Floyd left. And Johnston wasn't fought because he couldn't avenge his loss to Castillo. Johnston never won a high profile fight again.

I don't see this double standard you're talking about here. I never claimed Floyd fought all of the best. I don't think it's OK regardless of excuses, and I'm glad he's going to correct that now. I also didn't claim Pac avoided fighting the best...I merely said he avoided fighting his most difficult opponents. Floyd didn't. There's no double standard there, you can't compare apples to oranges.

Ex) Emanuel Augustus was much more difficult than Diego Corrales. Was Augustus REMOTELY close to being as great as Corrales? Hellllllll no. But Floyd fought him.

Why did I bring any of this up in the first place? Since we're drifting here I'll just remind you because this seriously needs to end. I brought it up because Pac's overall performance against his competition is deceptive. The 3 times he got tested in his relevant career he lost a UD, drew, and won a SD. And the draw and SD could have easily been UD losses. Based off his fighting style, I'd bet any amount of money a slick counter puncher would also give him absolute hell.

And that's the bottom line.

And by the way, thanks for this argument, you got me turned red by the Pac Hugger squad. :rofl:

Is Manny Pacquiao an... 10-02-2009 06:54 AM LOLAGE! PWNAGE! i disapprove!
Is Manny Pacquiao an... 10-02-2009 06:53 AM joartccjr. EDUCATE YOURSELF.
Is Manny Pacquiao an... 10-02-2009 06:52 AM MR. SMILEY PAC HATER
Is Manny Pacquiao an... 10-02-2009 06:49 AM Domayn pac is atg
Is Manny Pacquiao an... 10-02-2009 06:47 AM PACHUGGER PAC IS GOD


I always respect your arguments even if I don't agree. sorry the Pac huggers turned you red, it wasn't my intention for that to happen at all. If I can green you, you got it. If not, I'll catch back up to you.

Ziggy Stardust
10-03-2009, 11:55 AM
If this isn't the pot calling the kettle black. Don't reverse your problems then project them onto me. I'm not the opposite of you. You merely lack the mental capacity to understand me. And if you haven't noticed, Jab doesn't share your opinions of me so direct your childish responses to people who are as sad as you are. Instead you leave Jab in an uncomfortable position where he ends up not responding to you.

I thought you had decided I'm not worth responding to? Regardless I hardly regard myself as your polar opposite.....rather I'm something that you simply cannot comprehend due to your muddled state of mind. I'm not the one, afterall, who thinks his person preferences for certain types of fighters bestows on them the impramatur of "best" (see your repeated posts regarding "slick" fighters over other styles).

Now, you can choose to respond to me or not, put me on ignore or not: It really doesn't matter to as you're not someone views I take seriously. Rather you're a source of amusement to me much the way a 1st grader's attempts at intellectual discourse would be amusing to me as a college graduate. Much the way your sophmoric attempts to score cheap debating points at a high school debate club are. While you attemp to veil yourself in a kind of psuedo-intellectuallism an academic you are most certainly not: You simply do not have the capacity for it.

Poet

Obama
10-03-2009, 01:29 PM
an academic you are most certainly not: You simply do not have the capacity for it.

Poet[/COLOR]

Cutting out the bull**** from your post, I have a 3.9 GPA at Temple University. My department is Electrical Engineering. I'm a part of the Golden Key National Honor Society, and I'll be finishing up my Bachelors with GPA in tact next year.

You assume a lot about me which isn't true when it comes to how I rate fighters. You don't really pay a lot of attention to reading what other people have to say. You'd rather skim it and spend the majority of your time judging them. To each his own, but it's not an adult thing to do.

Cadillac Man
10-03-2009, 01:53 PM
Is the sky blue?

Ziggy Stardust
10-03-2009, 03:17 PM
Cutting out the bull**** from your post, I have a 3.9 GPA at Temple University. My department is Electrical Engineering. I'm a part of the Golden Key National Honor Society, and I'll be finishing up my Bachelors with GPA in tact next year.

You assume a lot about me which isn't true when it comes to how I rate fighters. You don't really pay a lot of attention to reading what other people have to say. You'd rather skim it and spend the majority of your time judging them. To each his own, but it's not an adult thing to do.

Translation: You're pursuing a technical degree not an academic degree. In other words you're studying to be a electrician which is on the same level as studying to be a plumber.

On the contrary, I pay a great deal of attention to what people post which is how I'm able to remind dipsh1ts like yourself of posts you've made that you'd possibly rather forget. Or posts that contradict more recent ones. Or posts that demonstrate your biases. Or posts that show your hypocracy. Maybe YOU should go back and peruse your past posts where you invariably favor certain fighters over the rest on account of their "slick" manner of fighting.

Poet

them_apples
10-03-2009, 03:35 PM
How does being a slick fighter automatically make you better than everyone else? FFS Derrick Gainer was a 'slick' fighter and got his ass taxed against a counter puncher by the name of Marquez at his best weight. How do you lose by running and pot shotting against a counter puncher? Just shows being slick isn't all what it's cracked up to be. ( got nothing against Gainer btw)

Fact is Pacquiao has done everything Floyd has done - and finished the job like a true p4p champ.

Every one of Floyds wins above 140 have huge loopholes in them. Oscar giving him hell, Marquez being slow as hell - blown up and not belonging at 147, Ricky just not being that good. What I don't get is how you can be the p4p best fighting at WW and somehow avoid Cotto, Mosely, Margarito or even Williams. Why doesn't he just fight at 140 if he thinks those guys are too big.

Obama
10-03-2009, 03:48 PM
Translation: You're pursuing a technical degree not an academic degree. In other words you're studying to be a electrician which is on the same level as studying to be a plumber.

Poet

Way to show your ignorance once more. Equating a Bachelors in EE to getting certified as an electrician is unquestionably as ignorant a thing you could have possibly said. Nothing is worth reading from you after that.

How does being a slick fighter automatically make you better than everyone else?

It doesn't, read what I post and not what poet understands of what I post.

them_apples
10-03-2009, 03:51 PM
Way to show your ignorance once more. Equating a Bachelors in EE to getting certified as an electrician is unquestionably as ignorant a thing you could have possibly said. Nothing is worth reading from you after that.



It doesn't, read what I post and not what poet understands of what I post.

yea but I've seen you and many other posters using the same Bs. Saying Pacquiao ducks slick fighters, as if this is the ultimate test for him or something.

Ziggy Stardust
10-03-2009, 03:52 PM
Way to show your ignorance once more. Equating a Bachelors in EE to getting certified as an electrician is unquestionably as ignorant a thing you could have possibly said. Nothing is worth reading from you after that.

:bottle: Do I need to call you a waahmbulance? EE is a TECHNICAL degree NOT and ACADEMIC degree. If you can't figure out the difference than you're a bigger moron than you've already demonstrated yourself to be.

Poet

project xxx1
10-03-2009, 04:15 PM
yep he is an all time great even if he losses to cotto,just for what he has achieved, going up through the weights.there will always be an argument that he beat a washed up oscar and overrated hatton,while diaz was nearly a garunteed win and morales was past his best in their fights.but lets face it for a little guy to even move up and face all them fighters with good kos on their record takes a big heart.i know some people are starting to get annoyed with manny and some of his hardcore fans because they go like hes the best ever and it dont help roach shouting his mouth off all the time and trying to get fighters to drop weight and still challenge for belts,which is a load of bollocks in my opinion,but the man himself is a humble guy and a gentleman,a very likeable person with a fighting style thats keeps you on the edge of your seat,he never bad mouths off anybody and derserves his place among the other all time great boxers :boxing::boxing::boxing::boxing:

Stoppage
10-03-2009, 04:17 PM
The issue is not so much that Pac didn't fight Campbell or Casa in his first LW fight (although Marquez did, and Guzman was scheduled to in their first LW bouts). The issue is that Pac fought David Diaz instead, which was nothing more than cherry picking a soup title. Cherry picking a soup title from a guy who didn't even deserve to wear the title, whilst having NO other intentions of fighting anyone else in the division is unacceptable. Mayweather cannot be accused of this. So you need to clarify exactly what I'm giving Floyd a pass on. It's clearly not the same situation. Not to mention Floyd's first LW title fight was against the #1 LW in the world....close the book on this chapter.

You're basically picking points to try and blast Pacquiao. This can be done to any fighter. For example: you say Mayweather faced the #1 lightweight in the world. Okay. Well how come he didn't face the #1 welterweight in the world?

Who faced better fighters in the SBW division, Pac or Guzman, is not relevant. What's relevant is that Pac wasn't fighting the best of the division, as the best was clearly Guzman. They were both Champions. Guzman was and still is undefeated. Guzman KOed a guy Pac couldn't beat. It's a no brainer that the fight should have been made. And the only thing superior about Pac's SBW resume is the fact that he was more active. Guzman just isn't a very active fighter. Being a highly active is not required for having an elite status, or making you worth fighting.

Ray Robinson didn't fight Charley Burley, who many thought he should have. Does this deny Robinson's claim as an all-time great?

About Hatton, I'm not debating that he was Ring Champion. Clearly he was. I'm telling you the man was past his prime. Floyd ruined him. It's evident in the Lazcano fight. Beating feather fisted Paulie who decided to stop fighting after the first round (which he easily won) is not grounds for proving your still the best of the division. He cherry picked Paulie, who was on a string of ****ty performances, getting at least 2 gift decisions from N'dou and Ngoudjo. You can't compare the Paulie that fought Diaz to the one that fought N'dou, Ngoudjo, and Hatton. At this point Bradley was clearly better than Hatton. There's at least 5 JWWs I pick to beat Hatton now, not including JMM, who's highly interested in fighting him now.

Come'on. Enough of the 'ruined' fighter excuses. Malignaggi was a legit light-welterweight and Hatton dominated him in that fight. You're telling me one loss means a fighter's ruined? I guess Robinson was ruined after LaMotta but somehow kept going. I guess Ali was ruined after Frazier but somehow kept going.

Obama
10-03-2009, 04:22 PM
yea but I've seen you and many other posters using the same Bs. Saying Pacquiao ducks slick fighters, as if this is the ultimate test for him or something.

It's not BS, it's just an observation. No one is calling it the be all end all, but it's still relevant. We can't just assume he'd beat all the slick fighters of his day because he'll end up rated higher than them (Mayweather aside). And if he fought them and dropped decisions then yea, I'd say it would adversely affect his all time rating.

:bottle: Do I need to call you a waahmbulance? EE is a TECHNICAL degree NOT and ACADEMIC degree. If you can't figure out the difference than you're a bigger moron than you've already demonstrated yourself to be.

Poet

You need to study what a Bachelor's degree entails before speaking on this. I bet my BS account that I'm right when I call it an academic degree.

And if you saw a transcript of the courses I've taken, many of which have no direct relationship with engineering, and some not at all (an unfortunate consequence of the bachelor's), even you wouldn't have the audacity to run your mouth.

Just because my field is math and science oriented as opposed to English or History, doesn't make it non-academic. You're confused about what academic actually means.

Obama
10-03-2009, 04:31 PM
You're basically picking points to try and blast Pacquiao. This can be done to any fighter. For example: you say Mayweather faced the #1 lightweight in the world. Okay. Well how come he didn't face the #1 welterweight in the world?


No, I'm not. You're missing the point. And Floyd did fight the Ring Champion at 147. The fighter who was champ just didn't happen to be great, not Floyd's fault. It's likewise not Pac's fault that Hatton was past it when he beat him for the Ring title. The quality of these opponents is roughly the same.


Ray Robinson didn't fight Charley Burley, who many thought he should have. Does this deny Robinson's claim as an all-time great?


I didn't say Pac wasn't an ATG at any point in this thread. And Burley is 1 guy Robinson didn't fight, not a complete style range of fighters. Burley was slick, but so was Kid Gavilan.


Come'on. Enough of the 'ruined' fighter excuses. Malignaggi was a legit light-welterweight and Hatton dominated him in that fight. You're telling me one loss means a fighter's ruined? I guess Robinson was ruined after LaMotta but somehow kept going. I guess Ali was ruined after Frazier but somehow kept going.

Sure he was legit, but he wasn't at his best, and Hatton was supposed to beat him. Where Hatton has deteriorated the most is in his ability to take a punch. Paulie was cherry picked because Paulie can't punch.

And the loss itself to Floyd has nothing, or little to do with why Hatton is ruined. Hatton is ruined because he took too much punishment (in and out of the ring) in his career. Floyd just happened to be the guy to finish his chin off for good.

Stoppage
10-03-2009, 04:44 PM
Sure he was legit, but he wasn't at his best, and Hatton was supposed to beat him. Where Hatton has deteriorated the most is in his ability to take a punch. Paulie was cherry picked because Paulie can't punch.

And the loss itself to Floyd has nothing, or little to do with why Hatton is ruined. Hatton is ruined because he took too much punishment (in and out of the ring) in his career. Floyd just happened to be the guy to finish his chin off for good.

His lifestyle did have an effect on his career, for sure. But it's not right to say that's why he lost against both.

Hatton was taking some pretty good shots from Mayweather until he got caught with a good punch and went head first into the ring post. After that it was clear the fight was going downhill for him.

And you seem so sure about him being ruined. I hope it's not because of his performance in the Pacquiao fight. Pacquiao landed a power punch that struck Hatton directly on the chin. It was a perfectly landed punch in order to score a knockout. I don't know about you but I don't think many fighters could withstand that punch without being affected.

Let's be real. Pacquiao had the perfect game plan against Hatton. Mayweather had a lot of trouble against Hatton in the early part of their fight. If he was such a slick fighter, how could this happen to him? It's because styles make fights.

them_apples
10-03-2009, 04:44 PM
No, I'm not. You're missing the point. And Floyd did fight the Ring Champion at 147. The fighter who was champ just didn't happen to be great, not Floyd's fault. It's likewise not Pac's fault that Hatton was past it when he beat him for the Ring title. The quality of these opponents is roughly the same.



I didn't say Pac wasn't an ATG at any point in this thread. And Burley is 1 guy Robinson didn't fight, not a complete style range of fighters. Burley was slick, but so was Kid Gavilan.



Sure he was legit, but he wasn't at his best, and Hatton was supposed to beat him. Where Hatton has deteriorated the most is in his ability to take a punch. Paulie was cherry picked because Paulie can't punch.

And the loss itself to Floyd has nothing, or little to do with why Hatton is ruined. Hatton is ruined because he took too much punishment (in and out of the ring) in his career. Floyd just happened to be the guy to finish his chin off for good.

Mayweather made Hatton move up in weight anyways, Pacquiao fought him at his best weight. It's funny too because of Pacquiao fought a guy smaller than him the odds would be rediculous in Pacquiaos favor to win.

Obama
10-03-2009, 05:00 PM
His lifestyle did have an effect on his career, for sure. But it's not right to say that's why he lost against both.

Hatton was taking some pretty good shots from Mayweather until he got caught with a good punch and went head first into the ring post. After that it was clear the fight was going downhill for him.

And you seem so sure about him being ruined. I hope it's not because of his performance in the Pacquiao fight. Pacquiao landed a power punch that struck Hatton directly on the chin. It was a perfectly landed punch in order to score a knockout. I don't know about you but I don't think many fighters could withstand that punch without being affected.

Let's be real. Pacquiao had the perfect game plan against Hatton. Mayweather had a lot of trouble against Hatton in the early part of their fight. If he was such a slick fighter, how could this happen to him? It's because styles make fights.

Mayweather isn't a big puncher, but Hatton was taking waaaaay too many straight right hands from Floyd. It wore him down and eventually Floyd got him out of there.

I'm not basing it on the Pac fight. Pac can crack, but Hatton's chin was pre-cracked. As I listed before it showed up in the Lazcano fight. Lazcano had no business making Hatton go jello legged. The man basically came out of retirement for that fight and was moving up in weight.

As for Floyd vs Hatton, pressure fighters are known to give slick fighters a good fight while it lasts, and earn a pretty close decision with them provided they don't take too many clean shots during the fight.

Mayweather made Hatton move up in weight anyways, Pacquiao fought him at his best weight. It's funny too because of Pacquiao fought a guy smaller than him the odds would be rediculous in Pacquiaos favor to win.

Mayweather didn't make Hatton move up in weight, Hatton wanted to move up in weight. Mayweather was going to fight Tszyu @ 140 had Hatton not spoiled the party. But then Ricky did, and when Mayweather approached him Ricky's dad said he wasn't ready for the fight yet. So, Floyd moved on rather than lurk around a division not worth fighting in.

And sometimes weight is a problem in a fight, but it was plain as day to see it wasn't a problem in the Floyd vs Hatton fight. The guys were basically the same size. Floyd beat him with skill.

mathed
10-03-2009, 05:06 PM
I posted this here because this is the section with the wisest posters and I'm looking to get your opinions on this.

In my opinion, yes.

Manny Pacquiao is still fighting today but I think he's justified his claim as an all-time great fighter. Why? It's simple.

He's been a champion in six different weight classes which is an amazing achievement.

He's defeated the best in the world. This includes:

Marco Antonio Barrera
Erik Morales
Juan Manuel Marquez (while debatable, still a victory)
Oscar de la Hoya
Ricky Hatton

He has a match coming up against Miguel Cotto. If he beats him and claims another championship in a seventh weight class, then it just gives more reason to consider him an all-time great.

But the great thing about him is that he's brought the fights the fans want to see. He fights the best and gives it his all. That is something rare these days.

What are your opinions? Do you consider him an all-time great and why?

No, an all-time hypejob; he would get schooled by any legit lightweight, much less a welter, ha!!! :thinking:

Stoppage
10-03-2009, 05:07 PM
Mayweather isn't a big puncher, but Hatton was taking waaaaay too many straight right hands from Floyd. It wore him down and eventually Floyd got him out of there.

I'm not basing it on the Pac fight. Pac can crack, but Hatton's chin was pre-cracked. As I listed before it showed up in the Lazcano fight. Lazcano had no business making Hatton go jello legged. The man basically came out of retirement for that fight and was moving up in weight.

As for Floyd vs Hatton, pressure fighters are known to give slick fighters a good fight while it lasts, and earn a pretty close decision with them provided they don't take too many clean shots during the fight.

I guess we just differ in opinions. But at least we're on the same page that he's an all-time great.

hugh grant
10-03-2009, 06:32 PM
Again he is an ATG because he is doing what he is said he cant do. Like beat DLH and Hatton.
All Pac fans know that if DLH or Hatton did beat Pac, youl would ram it down pacs fans throats and gloating about how bad Pac is.

So noone will hesitate to keep menioning how Pac dismantled DLH and Hatton until your sick and tired of it.

them_apples
10-03-2009, 09:57 PM
And how credible is Mayweathers win over Hatton? at 140 who knows? without the extra muscle how well would Mayweather have done? Hatton previously looked terrible at 147.

Obama
10-03-2009, 11:54 PM
And how credible is Mayweathers win over Hatton? at 140 who knows? without the extra muscle how well would Mayweather have done? Hatton previously looked terrible at 147.

2 reasons for that, 1 being he underestimated Collazo, and the other being Collazo was the second best fighter he ever faced at the time. And considering Tszyu was past it, no notable difference in ability between an old Tszyu and a prime Collazo. You may recall Hatton "dominating" Tszyu, but you can thank the ref and his motivation for that.

Ricky moved up to Welterweight because he was sick of making 140. This wasn't a case where the guy simply ran out of fighters to fight. The fact that he walked around at 180 was taking a toll.

jrosales13
10-04-2009, 12:53 AM
I really don't like to throw out ATG status around. IMO fans throw that status to just about anybody nowadays. But, saying all that that IMO Pac is an ATG. He has done stuff in boxing that has never been done. And, there is over a 100yrs of boxing history. He has won 4 linear world championships in 4 different divisions, never been done. No Flyweight champ has ever won the JR WW championship. It seems like every fight he keeps making history. So yes IMO he is an ATG. However, as of right now I don't have him in my top 20 fighters of all time. I will have to see how he does against Cotto. But, from here on out his legacey is set ATG.

Spear
10-04-2009, 01:36 AM
Manny is an ATG, but his selection of opponents pre-Cotto has been rather similar if I must say so. He seems to avoid slick fighters at all costs. I think he's taking Cotto only because Freddie figures Cotto is a spent force now.

You might as well say face black fighters. I remember reading a article on BS that pacquiao doesnt fight slick black fighters. Starting with lehnolo ledwaba & ending with jorge eliecer julio pacquiao fought 3 straight black guys.

In in between those 2 guys,

Agapito Sanchez. A slick dirty fighter. But you will probably comeback with the "but he aint american slick" argument.

The fact that he avoided Guzman for at least 4 weight divisions and chose David Diaz over Casamayor or Campbell says it all.

He's flat out avoided slick fighters. There is no denying it. Cotto is going to be a fight that puts him out of his element, I'm quite sure. People will write it off as due to the weight, but it's going to come down to styles.

You blast david diaz but this is the same david diaz that ktfo jose armando santa cruz who decisively beat "slick" joel casamayor but was robbed in new york. this is the same david diaz who beat another "slick black" fighter, a young & talented super fast southpaw named zab judah in the olympic trials.

Funny you also call hatton "washed up" or "cracked chin" after one loss to the heavy hitting floyd mayweather jr. Going by that logic i guess after tommy hearns "cracked" roberto duran's chin nobody would get credit for beating him afterwards. I guess we should discredit lennox lewis & evander holyfield because buster douglas "cracked" tyson''s chin.

Obama
10-04-2009, 02:11 AM
You might as well say face black fighters. I remember reading a article on BS that pacquiao doesnt fight slick black fighters. Starting with lehnolo ledwaba & ending with jorge eliecer julio pacquiao fought 3 straight black guys.


No, I might not as well say Black fighters. Half the legitimate people Pac could have faced that were slick aren't even considered Black despite their dark skin color. If Willie Pep was around and Pac avoided him (and I believe he would have) he would be just as valid to name. This is not a race thing.


In in between those 2 guys,

Agapito Sanchez. A slick dirty fighter. But you will probably comeback with the "but he aint american slick" argument.


Not sure this does Pac any favors to consider this guy slick. Pac didn't beat the guy.... Thus this results in further reason why he avoids slick fighters.


You blast david diaz but this is the same david diaz that ktfo jose armando santa cruz who decisively beat "slick" joel casamayor but was robbed in new york. this is the same david diaz who beat another "slick black" fighter, a young & talented super fast southpaw named zab judah in the olympic trials.


Hold up, beating a guy that beat slick fighters doesn't count as beating a slick fighter yourself. You're missing the point. Styles make fights. I'm not arguing slick fighters > everyone, I'm arguing Pac's style is bad for them.


Funny you also call hatton "washed up" or "cracked chin" after one loss to the heavy hitting floyd mayweather jr. Going by that logic i guess after tommy hearns "cracked" roberto duran's chin nobody would get credit for beating him afterwards. I guess we should discredit lennox lewis & evander holyfield because buster douglas "cracked" tyson''s chin.

I gotta laugh at that...sorry. :rofl:

Some people get brutally KOed and retain their chin, some don't. Hatton didn't. Come now would a semi-retired Lazcano really shake a prime Hatton to his boots?

Spear
10-04-2009, 02:28 AM
No, I might not as well say Black fighters. Half the legitimate people Pac could have faced that were slick aren't even considered Black despite their dark skin color. If Willie Pep was around and Pac avoided him (and I believe he would have) he would be just as valid to name. This is not a race thing.



Not sure this does Pac any favors to consider this guy slick. Pac didn't beat the guy.... Thus this results in further reason why he avoids slick fighters.



Hold up, beating a guy that beat slick fighters doesn't count as beating a slick fighter yourself. You're missing the point. Styles make fights. I'm not arguing slick fighters > everyone, I'm arguing Pac's style is bad for them.



I gotta laugh at that...sorry. :rofl:

Some people get brutally KOed and retain their chin, some don't. Hatton didn't. Come now would a semi-retired Lazcano really shake a prime Hatton to his boots?


i guess my sarcasm didnt come across. floyd is not a heavy puncher, so why try to discredit pacquiao's ko of hatton by saying floyd cracked his chin. A undefeated prime hatton would have been in the same situation as the 1 loss hatton if he got hit with that punch or anybody 140 or bleow. Now we are cracking chins of fighters when they are "hurt"? You are trying really hard to discredit pacquiao's accomplishment to make yourself feel better about floyd.

The fact that a former flyweight champion, career featherweight, non american, barely speaking english, is being more celebrated than your slick black american fighter floyd has got you peeved to say the least.

them_apples
10-04-2009, 02:33 AM
2 reasons for that, 1 being he underestimated Collazo, and the other being Collazo was the second best fighter he ever faced at the time. And considering Tszyu was past it, no notable difference in ability between an old Tszyu and a prime Collazo. You may recall Hatton "dominating" Tszyu, but you can thank the ref and his motivation for that.

Ricky moved up to Welterweight because he was sick of making 140. This wasn't a case where the guy simply ran out of fighters to fight. The fact that he walked around at 180 was taking a toll.

He wasn't sick of making weight, you are just assuming that. He thought he could beat the p4p best at the time, and Floyd wasn't moving down. Hatton fought his last 3 fights at 140.

Hatton can't bully and push everyone around at 140 with strong guys like Cotto, Shane and Margarito in there.

Hatton walked around at 180 because he was fat, don't try to act like the guy is a natural WW or something, he was only 5'6 with a 65" reach, he didn't look any bigger than Pacquiao accept maybe in the waist.

Obama
10-04-2009, 02:37 AM
i guess my sarcasm didnt come across. floyd is not a heavy puncher, so why try to discredit pacquiao's ko of hatton by saying floyd cracked his chin. A undefeated prime hatton would have been in the same situation as the 1 loss hatton if he got hit with that punch or anybody 140 or bleow. Now we are cracking chins of fighters when they are "hurt"? You are trying really hard to discredit pacquiao's accomplishment to make yourself feel better about floyd.

The fact that a former flyweight champion, career featherweight, non american, barely speaking english, is being more celebrated than your slick black american fighter floyd has got you peeved to say the least.

Sigh, stop pretending you know who I am. None of that is true. I point out the weaknesses in all fighters resumes. I don't dislike Manny at all. And guess which 2 fighters I like the least of all time? Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray Leonard. You don't even know if I like Floyd. Floyd just happens to be at that stage where everyone hates him (much like Ali in his prime) and I don't need to criticize the man because everyone else is already doing it.

Anyways, back to Pac, Mayweather cracked his chin by hitting him with straight right hands over , and over, and over again. CLEAN punches which Hatton absorbed 150% (He walked into them).

And for the record, I'm not saying a prime Hatton beats Manny. But he does do better.

them_apples
10-04-2009, 03:35 AM
Sigh, stop pretending you know who I am. None of that is true. I point out the weaknesses in all fighters resumes. I don't dislike Manny at all. And guess which 2 fighters I like the least of all time? Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray Leonard. You don't even know if I like Floyd. Floyd just happens to be at that stage where everyone hates him (much like Ali in his prime) and I don't need to criticize the man because everyone else is already doing it.

Anyways, back to Pac, Mayweather cracked his chin by hitting him with straight right hands over , and over, and over again. CLEAN punches which Hatton absorbed 150% (He walked into them).

And for the record, I'm not saying a prime Hatton beats Manny. But he does do better.

I agree Hatton would do better at his best, but Pac still would have stopped him sooner than 10, or at least dominated him brutally. Pacquiao hadn't even warmed up yet and he was smashing Hattons face in.

People always talk about Pacquiao like he's just some sloppy fool who's easy to hit and just throws a lot and has speed. There is a hell of a lot more to it then that, and thats why he's the p4p king. Just about everyone he has fought recently has marveled at how difficult he is to time and the angles he attacks you from. If he and floyd fought I doubt it would be a simple counter that Mayweather has done to stationary fighters in the past. On paper Pacquiao has more weapons to deal damage to Floyd than vice versa.

People pull the same crap with Roberto Duran. Talk about him like he's some dumbass brawler with no skill.

Obama
10-04-2009, 04:01 AM
Just about everyone save Marquez. His trick? He waited for Pac to come to him. Pac becomes a lot more ordinary if you fight him going backwards. Floyd just so happens to be the best in the world at doing that.

chinoy
10-04-2009, 11:07 AM
PBF fought a LOT smaller and an older JMM and he cant be accused of cherrypicking?

you equate being "slick" as being black....

jesus christ.....talk about biases...


I wish you wouldn't write comments inside of a quote, I can't quote it and it makes it hard for me to see what you said. Anyways I will attempt to address the issues in the order you brought them up in.

The issue is not so much that Pac didn't fight Campbell or Casa in his first LW fight (although Marquez did, and Guzman was scheduled to in their first LW bouts). The issue is that Pac fought David Diaz instead, which was nothing more than cherry picking a soup title. Cherry picking a soup title from a guy who didn't even deserve to wear the title, whilst having NO other intentions of fighting anyone else in the division is unacceptable. Mayweather cannot be accused of this. So you need to clarify exactly what I'm giving Floyd a pass on. It's clearly not the same situation. Not to mention Floyd's first LW title fight was against the #1 LW in the world....close the book on this chapter.

Who faced better fighters in the SBW division, Pac or Guzman, is not relevant. What's relevant is that Pac wasn't fighting the best of the division, as the best was clearly Guzman. They were both Champions. Guzman was and still is undefeated. Guzman KOed a guy Pac couldn't beat. It's a no brainer that the fight should have been made. And the only thing superior about Pac's SBW resume is the fact that he was more active. Guzman just isn't a very active fighter. Being a highly active is not required for having an elite status, or making you worth fighting.

About Hatton, I'm not debating that he was Ring Champion. Clearly he was. I'm telling you the man was past his prime. Floyd ruined him. It's evident in the Lazcano fight. Beating feather fisted Paulie who decided to stop fighting after the first round (which he easily won) is not grounds for proving your still the best of the division. He cherry picked Paulie, who was on a string of ****ty performances, getting at least 2 gift decisions from N'dou and Ngoudjo. You can't compare the Paulie that fought Diaz to the one that fought N'dou, Ngoudjo, and Hatton. At this point Bradley was clearly better than Hatton. There's at least 5 JWWs I pick to beat Hatton now, not including JMM, who's highly interested in fighting him now.

Now for what I could ACTUALLY quote from you...

It's a damn shame he didn't fight Casa. He was interested in the fight. Had Casa not been robbed by Popo it prolly would have been made. Popo didn't move up to Lightweight until Floyd left. And Johnston wasn't fought because he couldn't avenge his loss to Castillo. Johnston never won a high profile fight again.

I don't see this double standard you're talking about here. I never claimed Floyd fought all of the best. I don't think it's OK regardless of excuses, and I'm glad he's going to correct that now. I also didn't claim Pac avoided fighting the best...I merely said he avoided fighting his most difficult opponents. Floyd didn't. There's no double standard there, you can't compare apples to oranges.

Ex) Emanuel Augustus was much more difficult than Diego Corrales. Was Augustus REMOTELY close to being as great as Corrales? Hellllllll no. But Floyd fought him.

Why did I bring any of this up in the first place? Since we're drifting here I'll just remind you because this seriously needs to end. I brought it up because Pac's overall performance against his competition is deceptive. The 3 times he got tested in his relevant career he lost a UD, drew, and won a SD. And the draw and SD could have easily been UD losses. Based off his fighting style, I'd bet any amount of money a slick counter puncher would also give him absolute hell.

And that's the bottom line.

And by the way, thanks for this argument, you got me turned red by the Pac Hugger squad. :rofl:

Is Manny Pacquiao an... 10-02-2009 06:54 AM LOLAGE! PWNAGE! i disapprove!
Is Manny Pacquiao an... 10-02-2009 06:53 AM joartccjr. EDUCATE YOURSELF.
Is Manny Pacquiao an... 10-02-2009 06:52 AM MR. SMILEY PAC HATER
Is Manny Pacquiao an... 10-02-2009 06:49 AM Domayn pac is atg
Is Manny Pacquiao an... 10-02-2009 06:47 AM PACHUGGER PAC IS GOD



If this isn't the pot calling the kettle black. Don't reverse your problems then project them onto me. I'm not the opposite of you. You merely lack the mental capacity to understand me. And if you haven't noticed, Jab doesn't share your opinions of me so direct your childish responses to people who are as sad as you are. Instead you leave Jab in an uncomfortable position where he ends up not responding to you.

Obama
10-04-2009, 04:06 PM
PBF fought a LOT smaller and an older JMM and he cant be accused of cherrypicking?


Can't be accused of fighting a joke LW Champion when he entered the weight class is what was said.


you equate being "slick" as being black....

No? I've already clarified this multiple times. Read more posts.

Stoppage
10-04-2009, 05:33 PM
Can't be accused of fighting a joke LW Champion when he entered the weight class is what was said.

What sounds better:

Having your first fight in the lightweight division against a world champion or return as a natural welterweight and making a fight with a lightweight.

I don't understand your hate on Pacquiao.

And your 'Mayweather cracked Hatton's chinned' claim is still bogus. So what if he got hurt against Collazo? Plenty of fighters get hurt. You're just looking for anything you can grasp to put shame on Pacquiao's victories.

Spear
10-04-2009, 05:45 PM
What sounds better:

Having your first fight in the lightweight division against a world champion or return as a natural welterweight and making a fight with a lightweight.

I don't understand your hate on Pacquiao.

And your 'Mayweather cracked Hatton's chinned' claim is still bogus. So what if he got hurt against Collazo? Plenty of fighters get hurt. You're just looking for anything you can grasp to put shame on Pacquiao's victories.

that bogus claim of "cracked chin by floyd" is as bogus as the president he named his screen name after claim to change.

He acts as if every single ATG fought undefeated fighters who were never hurt or got ko'd. cracked chin? what a stupid shameless way to try & discredit a beautiful knockout.

Obama
10-04-2009, 06:32 PM
You guys have no business in the boxing history section. You've done nothing but try to misrepresent the information I've given. And you've even shamelessly gotten racist and resorted to ad hominem attacks.

crold1
10-04-2009, 06:57 PM
If Mayweather gets credit for cracking Hattons' chin...doesn't Pac get cerdit for adding significant miles to JMM's odomoeter before he agreed to be a well paid, chubby tune up with no hope of winning against Floyd? What about the battles with MAB, Casa, and Diaz?

Marquez was far more inhibited by the past than Hatton who was coming off his best performance since Tszyu.

Stoppage
10-04-2009, 07:35 PM
You guys have no business in the boxing history section. You've done nothing but try to misrepresent the information I've given. And you've even shamelessly gotten racist and resorted to ad hominem attacks.

Maybe it's because you're trying to personally discredit a fighter's best wins with a fighter that you think of more highly.

Obama
10-04-2009, 09:07 PM
If Mayweather gets credit for cracking Hattons' chin...doesn't Pac get cerdit for adding significant miles to JMM's odomoeter before he agreed to be a well paid, chubby tune up with no hope of winning against Floyd? What about the battles with MAB, Casa, and Diaz?

Yes.

Maybe it's because you're trying to personally discredit a fighter's best wins with a fighter that you think of more highly.

Stop assuming things. You don't know me.

I can just as easily discredit Mayweather's wins against Genaro Hernandez, Gatti, Mitchell, Judah, DLH, and Marquez, who had all seen better days. And that's just off the top of my head.

dionysius
10-06-2009, 05:26 AM
They have like up to 20 rounds before now it was reduced to 12 rounds... Do you think that Manny can do 20 rounds of boxing? Like in his fight with marquez?

If he can, then he is an all time great after he defeats Cotto.