I dont think even George Foreman could handle a peak Joe Frazier.

Alot of people say Ali wasn't well conditioned before the first Frazier fight, but Ali actually faught more rounds before they met that year. Also that was the best ko punch ive ever seen(Ali V Frazier 1)

Unfortunately for Frazier, anytime he fought Foreman he'd lose, because he was always afraid of Foreman, everytime they fought. Foreman got inside Frazier's head and made him change training, and not for the better. Instead of coming in at his prime 205, Frazier tried to come in heavier to try and bang with Foreman. The extra weight actually worked against Frazier. In Smokin' Joe's defense, i'd be afraid of 1973 Big George too, he is in fact one of the few i'd be afraid of

Foreman 1973, always, the style match up would have never been in favor of frazier

Ali 1967
Joe Louis late 30s

but none of them 10 times out of 10

Ali and Foreman could take him at his prime.

Fear played a huge part in Frasier's losses to Foreman. I just watched the Frasier-Foreman fight, and in the first round I counted maybe 10 punches at the most thrown by Joe. I mean, how can you win a fight if your not agressive! Joe had the skills and the defensive, but his offensive was nonexistent. :mad:

I dont think even George Foreman could handle a peak Joe Frazier.

Alot of people say Ali wasn't well conditioned before the first Frazier fight, but Ali actually faught more rounds before they met that year. Also that was the best ko punch ive ever seen(Ali V Frazier 1)
George Foreman simply had too good a chin and too big a punch for Joe Frazier. I could never see Frazier beating Foreman.

I dont think even George Foreman could handle a peak Joe Frazier.

Alot of people say Ali wasn't well conditioned before the first Frazier fight, but Ali actually faught more rounds before they met that year. Also that was the best ko punch ive ever seen(Ali V Frazier 1)

Correction. Although that was a great punch, it wasn't a knockout punch. Frasier beat Ali in a 15 round decision. :mad:

I think that Foreman beats Frazier every time.

Correction. Although that was a great punch, it wasn't a knockout punch. Frasier beat Ali in a 15 round decision. :mad:
Maybe he meant knockdown... great avatar by the way. That was an amazing fight.

I'd say Foreman, Ali, Tyson and Holmes would handle Frasier.

Ali would beat Frazier fair and square in his prime. Frazier would not be able to handle Ali's speed. Frazier possibly could come close if he finds his right hand.

i agree with you, fraizer would of lost to ali because ali was to smart for someone like fraizer. also foreman would of desroyed him weither they faught earlier or later than they did. also i believe many other fighters would beat him. RJJ maybe, and im saying maybe, also tyson would prove a good contendor, what about jack dempsey or.......sonny liston maybe even

george forman would easy beat frazier in 1971

george forman would easy beat frazier in 1971
No doubt Foreman could have taken Frasier pretty much at any point there isn't thatmany that could beat Foreman the night he fought Frasier first time around.

Remember in the opening round of their first fight when Frazier landed a good left hook on Foreman's chin and the big guy just kept coming? That tells you all you need to know. Frazier is one of my all time favorites but Big George had too much size, firepower, and chin.

As for Frazier's fear, he had a reason to be afraid. Foreman absolutely demolished Norton, who was a big strong guy and a one of Joe's favorite sparring partners. The rumour at the time was that Norton gave Frazier a lot of problems in sparring. When a guy walks through someone you struggle with on a daily basis, the prospect of facing him is a grim one.

rjj, no way
tyson, unlikely but possible
liston, oh yeas that would have been a definitely bad matchup for frazier I did not think about that

I'd say Foreman, Ali, Tyson and Holmes would handle Frasier.

i agree, holmes will beat frazier bad 9 out of 10 times. frazier and tyson would split 10 fights 6-4 tyson. foreman wins 10out of ten. and ali wins 7 out of 10. l. lewis wins 8 out of 10. frazier might get in some good shots in 2 fights to ko LL. but losses every round.

Ok I agree with some of things said such as Foreman beating Frazier. the style match-up is wrong for frazier, as Foreman is too big and strong fo fraziers style. But then, Tyson would NOT beat frazier. Liston would make a good fight, but frazier still wins that. RJJ??!?!? I cant even tell u how wrong that is. Holmes I can see giving trouble to frazier, but i dont think he'd win. ALi and frazier is close. And being a BIG fan of Smokin joe, I'm gonna say frazier would get another UD. But i can totally see Ali winning aswell. So its a coin-toss.
But some of you's have WAY too little respect fo the smokin' joe. Is it because of the foreman fight? Well i dont think its so much to do with frazier being scared, i just think the style match-up is wrong for frazier. But IMO a prime Foreman would do the same to Tyson, and most smaller brawler-boxers. Except I can't see Tyson getting up like Frazier did.
Btw the person who said Ali is too smart for frazier has been listening to too much Ali trash-talk.
I'm not saying Frazier is invincible, because his not. I'm just trying to say that frazier deserves alot more respect then many of you are giving him.

Oh yeh, I can't see Lennox Lewis beating Frazier either. Simply because he doesnt have the movement. He'd try to slug it out with Frazier and KO'd early. Inside 6 rounds IMO.

After watching many years of boxing, one thing remains true: Any fighter, no matter how great, can be beat. I've seen all great fighters have bad nights. And theres always someone out there who can beat you.

Ali and Foreman could take him at his prime.
I agree with that.

a prime Ali (1967) when he still had all the foot and hand speed would tak e out a 1971 frazier, Ali with that incredible footwork before his boxing ban would be able to keep his distance against the relentless swarming style of frazier, fire off the quick jab and other counter punches. He would eventually wear Frazier down and win on points or even possibly knock him out (not probable).

a prime Ali (1967) when he still had all the foot and hand speed would tak e out a 1971 frazier, Ali with that incredible footwork before his boxing ban would be able to keep his distance against the relentless swarming style of frazier, fire off the quick jab and other counter punches. He would eventually wear Frazier down and win on points or even possibly knock him out (not probable).

I agree , actrually i was gon say somtin similiar to that but i would sound dumb to say it right after you lol

I think that, on that night, Frazier was guided by the hand of God or something. ANY FIGHTER facing him on March 8, 1971 would be giving an interview to Ring magazine, after the fight, with the words: "...that was the toughest fight of my life..."

boston guy frazier didnt fear foreman.he didnt throw punches because every time he got closed to foreman he would push him away..and maybe you didnt know this but if a guy is kicking your butt most likely you arent going to be throwing that many punches back..foremans power was what beat frazier.that and his chin.frazier hit foreman with a big hook early in the first round but he just walked right through it and started battering him..frazier could never beat foreman.period foreman in his 15th fight could be frazier..he could never match up with his power or style..infact alot of people could of beat frazier in 71.lyle could if he could drop foreman which you know frazier could not them more than likely his power was great than fraizers..sonny liston could probably beat frazier..cooney could ko him..and dont say cooney..cut cooney was a bum..cooney had great power ..if you can make both holmes and foreman say that you were the hardest punch they faced then the man could punch..so he would destroy frazier :boxing:

The 1988 Tyson could've beaten him..

the truth is styles make fights, and anybody who came to foreman couldn't survive, even a peak frazier

foreman stoppage again frazier was good but when he gets beat he gets beat bad

Frazier of 1971 was a terminator and machine. Foreman saw a Frazier who had been undoubtedly depleted some by the wars he had with Ali, Bonavena, Quarry etc. What a dream it would be to see a fight between Frazier circa '71 against a slightly younger Ali. The two fighters never matched up with both in their primes. Yes, Ali was 29, hardly an aged fighter. But with Ali relying so much on foot/hand speed and punching accuracy, his style was severely cut into. He could not float away from Joe's unrelenting forward progress. Thus he ended up trading more power shots than he had ever done before that point in his career. Frazier's hooks to the head and body were more vicious than anyone. And the man, like a tank, could take round upon round of any heavyweight's best shots and continue to close the gap to measure for another attack. Scary man he was. Man Frazier of '71 could crush heavys, don't be silly.

A schooled Stanley Ketchel would take Frazier, So would Tyson, So would Joe Louis and Marciano. Add Walcott too(the original Walcott)

I think that, on that night, Frazier was guided by the hand of God or something. ANY FIGHTER facing him on March 8, 1971 would be giving an interview to Ring magazine, after the fight, with the words: "...that was the toughest fight of my life..."

Yea. If I had to pick the greatest heavyweight chamionship performance of all-time, that's my pick.

The thinq about fighting Joe was that you can't run or hide. Wherever you went in that ring, he's right in front of you.

I was playing Fight Night Round 2, and I fought Frazier. The computer simulated him perfectly, and he knocked me down 7 times in the first 2 rounds (I was Evander Holyfield).

no video game can replicate the styles of the great fighters

Foreman and Liston would beat him.

ali of 1969 (if not banned) could beat frazier of 1971. so could foreman of 1973, liston of 1962, and holmes of 1980. but no one else could though. smokin' joe was da man!

i'm waiting for duncanjl to say i'm a young idiot or something. i know he is going to open his big mouth lol!

On March the 8th, 1971 Smokin Joe Frazier takes them all.

IMO
i can see prime frazier beating a prime Ali

the fact is Frazier was stronger then Ali by alot (prime frazier to prime ali) also Ali may have been faster but remember Joe was fast as well, Ali would dance but dancing isn't gunna work forever

Also style wise Joe Frazier is a bad style matchup for ali because if there's one type of fighter that Ali would have trouble with it would have to be a swarmer. Frazier could get inside on Ali and thats the one place where ali is nearly helpless is inside. Also Ali's most vulnerable to the punche joe does best- left hook

i could beat him :cool: :boxing: :boxing:

IMO
i can see prime frazier beating a prime Ali

the fact is Frazier was stronger then Ali by alot (prime frazier to prime ali) also Ali may have been faster but remember Joe was fast as well, Ali would dance but dancing isn't gunna work forever

Also style wise Joe Frazier is a bad style matchup for ali because if there's one type of fighter that Ali would have trouble with it would have to be a swarmer. Frazier could get inside on Ali and thats the one place where ali is nearly helpless is inside. Also Ali's most vulnerable to the punche joe does best- left hook

frazier does have a small chance of beating prime ali, but it's not likely. frazier barely beat ali the first time they fought, so of ali was faster, frazier would lose.

frazier does have a small chance of beating prime ali, but it's not likely. frazier barely beat ali the first time they fought, so of ali was faster, frazier would lose.
well at least you didn't totally disagree

ok well here's other stuff

Frazier is probably one of the best fighters to match up with Ali

and

I'm not sure that Frazier was completely prime when he fought ali
i mean correct me if i'm wrong but i think that wasn't his best fight i think he was just alittle past prime but that just my opinion

well at least you didn't totally disagree

ok well here's other stuff

Frazier is probably one of the best fighters to match up with Ali

and

I'm not sure that Frazier was completely prime when he fought ali
i mean correct me if i'm wrong but i think that wasn't his best fight i think he was just alittle past prime but that just my opinion

well, he just looked better against lesser fighters like ellis, quarry, and foster. that doesn't mean that he was better. frazier was never that good before or after march 8, 1971.

ali was a slower fighter. if he was in his prime, frazier would not have cornered him as much as he did, so ali would win a close ud, or a late stoppage.

well, he just looked better against lesser fighters like ellis, quarry, and foster. that doesn't mean that he was better. frazier was never that good before or after march 8, 1971.

ali was a slower fighter. if he was in his prime, frazier would not have cornered him as much as he did, so ali would win a close ud, or a late stoppage.
well see its hard to say people who ali beat later in his career would be beat by a prime ali because honestly he was more defensive later in his career (as far as blocking and perrying go) so that plays a key factor, to be honest i think the lay off may have actually played to his advantage a bit, though then again we don't know what Prime (physical, and skill prime) Ali would have been like so, but without the lay off Ali would most likely not have beaten foreman and such IMO

well see its hard to say people who ali beat later in his career would be beat by a prime ali because honestly he was more defensive later in his career (as far as blocking and perrying go) so that plays a key factor, to be honest i think the lay off may have actually played to his advantage a bit, though then again we don't know what Prime (physical, and skill prime) Ali would have been like so, but without the lay off Ali would most likely not have beaten foreman and such IMO

I dont know how you come to such a conclusion. Ali's movement was his defense, and it was a far superior form of defense to the one he had following his layoff. Watch Ali in 70-71, at that point had he adapted his style to his new physical characteristics? not really... He moved a bit, stayed flatfooted and tried to trade punches. I think 73-74 were Ali's best years following his lay-off as he had adapted to some extent, fought alot smarter against Frazier then he did in the FOTC. People assume that the Ali of the early seventies had a better jaw, was tougher and had more heart then pre-layoff.. i dont agree at all because as soon as Ali was tested (probably against bonavena) he showed all these qualities which brings me to believe he had them pre-layoff but never had the oppurtunity to show them. The only other possibility is that Ali miraculously developed these qualities during his lay-off when he was completely inactive. Ive always viewed the Ali of 71' as a less co-ordinated 67' Ali without the ability to move fluidly. I do think a 67' Ali would do much better against Frazier. He could move fluidly for 15 rounds working the jab and keeping joe at bay with greater success then he did in FOTC, counter joe with straight punches from the outside... regardless of his speed Joe would still cut him off, although less then he did in FOTC. He would inflict punishment, Ali would tie him up and continue to work from the outside. Ali would win, however ive always believed Joe Frazier to be possibly the toughest matchup for Ali and would give Ali a life and death struggle at any time in his career. If they fought 5 times id give the nudge to Ali 3 times.

So ALi was a bit faster in the 60s. Do you REALLY think he can dance around a mofo like Frazier?? Do you really think so?? Trust me, the same thing would happen if it was a prime Ali. Nobody can run from a prime Frazier. And i honestly believe that 70s Ali was the bets version to fight Frazier. I doubt CLAY would be able to take that much punishment.

I doubt CLAY would be able to take that much punishment.

That is pretty true. I beleive 70's Ali had better defense and could take more punishment than 60's Ali.

Frazier would give any version of Ali trouble.

Mac Foster may give him a run.

Frazier would never beat Foreman. I'd favor Liston over Frazier too, cause Frazier would come straight at him and Liston would pulverize him with the jab, setting Frazier up for other punches. I remember reading somewhere that Lison wanted to fight Frazier for this reason. I used to think Frazier-Tyson would be the best fight ever, but now I think Tyson's handspeed and combination punching would give Frazier a lot of problems; slugging it out on the inside with Tyson is a recipe for disaster. Frazier could do well against Louis if he could get inside, but I see him taking too much punishment trying to get there. Louis is too much of a sharpshooter for Frazier.
Lennox Lewis doesn't have much of a chin, but he's got the size, strength and jab to beat Frazier. Bowe would beat Frazier if he used his jab and stayed on the outside, though if he tried to duke it out with Frazier like he did with Holyfield it would be an awesome fight, 50-50. Frazier beats Marciano--Marciano is too small and he'd get bad cuts. Larry Holmes vs. Frazier is a good fight, I don't know who would win. I guess I'd favor Frazier slightly. Frazier-Holyfield would be one of the best fights ever, like Holyfield-Qawi at heavyweight. That is a pick-em fight. Prime Ali beats Frazier by decision, cause Frazier would have a hard time getting to him.

Frazier would never beat Foreman. I'd favor Liston over Frazier too, cause Frazier would come straight at him and Liston would pulverize him with the jab, setting Frazier up for other punches. I remember reading somewhere that Lison wanted to fight Frazier for this reason. I used to think Frazier-Tyson would be the best fight ever, but now I think Tyson's handspeed and combination punching would give Frazier a lot of problems; slugging it out on the inside with Tyson is a recipe for disaster. Frazier could do well against Louis if he could get inside, but I see him taking too much punishment trying to get there. Louis is too much of a sharpshooter for Frazier.
Lennox Lewis doesn't have much of a chin, but he's got the size, strength and jab to beat Frazier. Bowe would beat Frazier if he used his jab and stayed on the outside, though if he tried to duke it out with Frazier like he did with Holyfield it would be an awesome fight, 50-50. Frazier beats Marciano--Marciano is too small and he'd get bad cuts. Larry Holmes vs. Frazier is a good fight, I don't know who would win. I guess I'd favor Frazier slightly. Frazier-Holyfield would be one of the best fights ever, like Holyfield-Qawi at heavyweight. That is a pick-em fight. Prime Ali beats Frazier by decision, cause Frazier would have a hard time getting to him.

nice post.

That is pretty true. I beleive 70's Ali had better defense and could take more punishment than 60's Ali.

Frazier would give any version of Ali trouble.
i agree with this

i'm not gunna say that 70's ali had a better chin but he took more punishment

so i think Frazier would do better against prime Ali
but even if Frazier lost he'd still give any form of Ali trouble

i agree with this

i'm not gunna say that 70's ali had a better chin but he took more punishment

so i think Frazier would do better against prime Ali
but even if Frazier lost he'd still give any form of Ali trouble

i don't think he'd do better. watch how fast ali's feet were in the 60s. that man could get away from nearly everything. i'm sure frazier would have his moments, but ali's speed would be the difference, and ali would get the nod.

frasier would never beat a prime foreman nor would any swarmer, tyson included! its a style thing swarmers cant get clode to foreman cause he just pushes them off. but the prime frasier was easily one of the best of all time, at any other time in history he would have been champ for a long time

So ALi was a bit faster in the 60s. Do you REALLY think he can dance around a mofo like Frazier?? Do you really think so?? Trust me, the same thing would happen if it was a prime Ali. Nobody can run from a prime Frazier. And i honestly believe that 70s Ali was the bets version to fight Frazier. I doubt CLAY would be able to take that much punishment.

i never said DANCE around at all? i said Frazier would have less success in cutting off Ali. CLAY would not be as sucessful against Joe Frazier, but a physically mature 67' Ali would. Ali stepped between those ropes in 71 with only two tune up fights, without developing a new strategy based around his current abilities, and without any defense... He was a less co-ordinated 67' Ali without the fluid movement. He stood there, literally defenseless trading with frazier... are you implying that the Ali of 67 would be less sucessful then the Ali that fought on that night? You doubt CLAY would be able to take that much punishment... i assume you are referring to any version of pre-layoff Ali. On what basis do you doubt a 67' Ali's ability to absorb punishment? Because he was dropped in the early sixties before he had matured physically?

i never said DANCE around at all? i said Frazier would have less success in cutting off Ali. CLAY would not be as sucessful against Joe Frazier, but a physically mature 67' Ali would. Ali stepped between those ropes in 71 with only two tune up fights, without developing a new strategy based around his current abilities, and without any defense... He was a less co-ordinated 67' Ali without the fluid movement. He stood there, literally defenseless trading with frazier... are you implying that the Ali of 67 would be less sucessful then the Ali that fought on that night? You doubt CLAY would be able to take that much punishment... i assume you are referring to any version of pre-layoff Ali. On what basis do you doubt a 67' Ali's ability to absorb punishment? Because he was dropped in the early sixties before he had matured physically?

Because little Cooper hurt him badly. Come on now, dont be biased. The 60s Ali(With CLAY i meant the guy that fought from 60 to 67) was only tested a few times. twice to be exact and look what happened. If Sonny Liston hit him with a good shot, he would be hurt. 67, 64, it doesn't matter.
Nobody can move around Frazier with succes. Even the 60s Ali couldn't. Don't make it seem like 70s Ali was slow. He slowed down a bit and thats all.
So, 60s Ali looses 3 times vs Frazier. 70s Ali wins twice vs Frazier.

Liston, Foreman, and Tyson would win for sure. I think he'd trade wins and losses with Ali, Dempsey, and Marciano. He beats Holmes, Holyfield, and Johnson most of the time. He'd wreck Bowe, Charles, and Norton.

Against the other contenders from around his time:

Vs Lyle: Frazier TKO8
Vs Mac Foster: Frazier TKO6, after getting floored once or twice
Vs Shavers: Frazier KO1
Vs Young: Frazier KO9

i actually think a prime Frazier would have a chance against foreman

its a bad match up but i mean Frazier would have speed and footwork to help him
its slim but it could actually happen

i actually think a prime Frazier would have a chance against foreman

Thats like saying one of the little pigs has a chance against the big bad wolf!

Because little Cooper hurt him badly. Come on now, dont be biased. The 60s Ali(With CLAY i meant the guy that fought from 60 to 67) was only tested a few times. twice to be exact and look what happened. If Sonny Liston hit him with a good shot, he would be hurt. 67, 64, it doesn't matter.
Nobody can move around Frazier with succes. Even the 60s Ali couldn't. Don't make it seem like 70s Ali was slow. He slowed down a bit and thats all.
So, 60s Ali looses 3 times vs Frazier. 70s Ali wins twice vs Frazier.
:eek: :confused: are you serious

Thats like saying one of the little pigs has a chance against the big bad wolf!
i still feel that fraziers speed and footwork, and good defense would give him a bit of an edge over Foreman's pure unstoppable strength

Frazier wasn't prime against foreman and i think that if he was prime and bobbed more he'd actually be able to get in

got to admit its a bad matchup for Frazier

i think Frazier would win once again Foreman.

The Frazier from FOTC would have had a better chance against Foreman than the one who showed up in Kingston, that's for sure.

Frazier should have trained harder for Foreman, rather than worry about his music career.

about his music career.

Was I the only one who liked his singing career? lol

i think Frazier would win once again Foreman.

Which is somthing I very much doubt. The worst possible match up for Frazier ever. Both stylisticly and physically wrong for Frazier. The beating was far too one sided to suggest a Frazier 2 years younger could do that much better.

Frazier would never beat Foreman. But he would have done a lot better. Just 2 rounds, come on now, thats not the Frazier we knew before.

I dont think even George Foreman could handle a peak Joe Frazier.

Alot of people say Ali wasn't well conditioned before the first Frazier fight, but Ali actually faught more rounds before they met that year. Also that was the best ko punch ive ever seen(Ali V Frazier 1)
joe louis would have destroyed him.

joe louis would have destroyed him.

Sure. If fat-ass, out of shape, beer swigging, bar room brawler, Two Ton Tony Galento can reach, stagger and drop Louis with his left hook, then Frazier could have success against Louis as well.

Because little Cooper hurt him badly. Come on now, dont be biased. The 60s Ali(With CLAY i meant the guy that fought from 60 to 67) was only tested a few times. twice to be exact and look what happened. If Sonny Liston hit him with a good shot, he would be hurt. 67, 64, it doesn't matter.
Nobody can move around Frazier with succes. Even the 60s Ali couldn't. Don't make it seem like 70s Ali was slow. He slowed down a bit and thats all.
So, 60s Ali looses 3 times vs Frazier. 70s Ali wins twice vs Frazier.

Oh right? so the only time Ali was hit with a decent shot was when he was dropped? bullshit. The last time Ali was dropped was in 63... he was dropped a year before in 62. Now try applying some logic here, 64-67 doesn't matter but in 67-70 during inactivity he amazingly developed ability to absorb punishment? Even the most anti-ali historians note that the henry cooper (VERY GOOD PUNCH) and sonny banks knockdowns aren't that relevant because he hadn't reached physical maturity. If you took the time to study Ali footage you may find he looks different in 67 then he did in 63, he had developed. If you refuse to acknowledge this and instead believe that he just magically developed his 'chin' then you are the one being biased. Your lack of knowledge regarding Ali and obvious dislike of the man is restricting your ability to produce a logical argument here. Please tell me at what point did i say the early seventies Ali was slow? he wasn't slow at all but in the words of Angelo Dundee 'the little bit of bounce, the bit of speed... shots he use to slide on he'd catch on the chin... it took its toll'.... 'even against quarry it became apparent that his abilities had declined' - Jose Torres. It was well documented at the time by observers that Ali's lay-off had significant detrimental effects on his performance. Loosing a little ability equates to alot. Its that bit of extra ability, that tiny gap between two great fighters that can make the difference. Ali looses 3/3 times in the late sixties? I hope that was some kind of joke.... its amazing how certain posters can often disregard circumstances of Ali's performance in the seventies but as soon as you mention Tyson and Buster circumstances suddenly become relevant... but ignore those circumstances because 90, 87, it doesn't matter he'd get beaten down anyway.

you do have to realize that Fraizer foolishly thought that Foreman would be a walk in the park so he didn't train very much at all

that is his fault but i'm just saying

Frazier from FOTC would have a much much better chance

i actually think a prime Frazier would have a chance against foreman

its a bad match up but i mean Frazier would have speed and footwork to help him
its slim but it could actually happen

I could get in the ring and throw a giant haymaker which foreman walks into and hits him on the chin and its lights out, but what are the odds of that?

Yes the chances are slim. Marciano and Frazier both have to be on the inside to be effective, on the inside they are doomed via giant uppercuts. Tyson has the best chance of any of them, hes got the handspeed to nullify Foremans attack somewhat on the inside, the best defense out of any of them and true one punch KO power whereas marciano and frazier tended to brake their man down first. Tyson could take advantage of George when he opens up more so then the other two, however the task would be too big for even Tyson and george would probably KO him.

I could get in the ring and throw a giant haymaker which foreman walks into and hits him on the chin and its lights out, but what are the odds of that?

Yes the chances are slim. Marciano and Frazier both have to be on the inside to be effective, on the inside they are doomed via giant uppercuts. Tyson has the best chance of any of them, hes got the handspeed to nullify Foremans attack somewhat on the inside, the best defense out of any of them and true one punch KO power whereas marciano and frazier tended to brake their man down first. Tyson could take advantage of George when he opens up more so then the other two, however the task would be too big for even Tyson and george would probably KO him.
Well Tyson would definitely have the advantage of handspeed and possibley even strength (not over Foreman, over Frazier) but i didn't mention tyson because its a thread about Frazier :p

If Frazier could get inside on Foreman then Foremans strength is nullified, and there's few people that have the ability to get inside like Frazier (there are some), point is its hard to get inside on a slugger like foreman, so who knows

:boxing:

Oh right? so the only time Ali was hit with a decent shot was when he was dropped? bullshit. The last time Ali was dropped was in 63... he was dropped a year before in 62. Now try applying some logic here, 64-67 doesn't matter but in 67-70 during inactivity he amazingly developed ability to absorb punishment? Even the most anti-ali historians note that the henry cooper (VERY GOOD PUNCH) and sonny banks knockdowns aren't that relevant because he hadn't reached physical maturity. If you took the time to study Ali footage you may find he looks different in 67 then he did in 63, he had developed. If you refuse to acknowledge this and instead believe that he just magically developed his 'chin' then you are the one being biased. Your lack of knowledge regarding Ali and obvious dislike of the man is restricting your ability to produce a logical argument here. Please tell me at what point did i say the early seventies Ali was slow? he wasn't slow at all but in the words of Angelo Dundee 'the little bit of bounce, the bit of speed... shots he use to slide on he'd catch on the chin... it took its toll'.... 'even against quarry it became apparent that his abilities had declined' - Jose Torres. It was well documented at the time by observers that Ali's lay-off had significant detrimental effects on his performance. Loosing a little ability equates to alot. Its that bit of extra ability, that tiny gap between two great fighters that can make the difference. Ali looses 3/3 times in the late sixties? I hope that was some kind of joke.... its amazing how certain posters can often disregard circumstances of Ali's performance in the seventies but as soon as you mention Tyson and Buster circumstances suddenly become relevant... but ignore those circumstances because 90, 87, it doesn't matter he'd get beaten down anyway.

I've seen a lot of Ali, and i know what im talking about. I know it breaks your heart but Ali of 67 would have been dropped by that punch from Cooper. I'd love to talk about the cocky kid from 67 having a good chin, but this is about Frazier. Frazier would have beaten him. He would not be able to take punishment like that, and he could NEVER EVER run from Frazier. He was NEVER tested in his prime. In the 70s he gained more power, strenght and yes he could take much more punishment. Maybe you should go back in time to Ali's corner and tell him he shouldn't trade punches with Frazier like you said. Not many people realize that 70s Ali was better for Frazier.

See you have stated alot but failed to logically explain these views. Ali's power improved marginally if at all. What Ali did do is start planting his feet because he lacked the ability to move fluidly and Frazier would inevitably get inside him thus he had to inflict has much punishment as he was walking in. Ali would of been dropped by that cooper punch in 67? Even with the 3-4 year difference and Ali's obvious physical maturity? So you must believe that some biological miracle took place and he developed a better chin and the ability to absorb more punishment whilst remaining completely inactive for 3 years and essentially devoting his times to politics and university lectures? Is that right? Thats absolute bullshit, Ali was at the peak of his powers in 67' and had physically matured. The people that worked with him directly noted this namely Angelo Dundee. (and don't try to tell me Dundees is being biased because he also said that he likes the 74' Ali best). Ali would do better in 67' then he would in 71', the only argument you have against this is Ali couldn't absorb as much punishment in 67' which would be a good argument if it was true, but it's not. The ideal way to fight a swarmer like Frazier is to simply stick and move, and no Ali wouldn't escape Joes onslaught completely but Frazier would have significantly less success in cutting the ring off. 'Maybe you should go back in time to Ali's corner and tell him he shouldn't trade punches with Frazier like you said' WOW what a stellar argument, i dont exactly have a delorean sitting in my garage now do i. Ali's only option was to trade as his legs would no longer allow consistent fluid movement hence a 67' Ali would be more sucessful as he could constantly move and avoid prolongued periods of inside fighting where Frazier was strongest. Im under no illusions, Frazier would give Ali a hell of a struggle but im confident that Ali's physical gifts would overcome this 3/5 times.

And on 'little henry cooper' little henry cooper through a not so little left hook dubbed 'enrys ammer', it was sharp, short and very powerful. Would a 67' Ali get dropped by it? He may be dropped by it if he was cocky and inexperienced enough to fool around and literally walk into it as with a 74 Ali. In 1967 Ali was beginning to peak and had 7 years of professional experience under his belt, he was no longer the 21 year old naieve cassius clay that fought cooper in 63 and if you did a little research you may come to this conclusion. If that left hook hit the way it did in 63 any version of Ali may have been knocked down but it would be nothing more then a flash knockdown, and it would most likely knock down fighters such as Joe Louis, Joe Frazier etc. Its inevitable that you will contest this which will confirm my suspicions of you underestimating the power in henry's left hand.

See you have stated alot but failed to logically explain these views. Ali's power improved marginally if at all. What Ali did do is start planting his feet because he lacked the ability to move fluidly and Frazier would inevitably get inside him thus he had to inflict has much punishment as he was walking in. Ali would of been dropped by that cooper punch in 67? Even with the 3-4 year difference and Ali's obvious physical maturity? So you must believe that some biological miracle took place and he developed a better chin and the ability to absorb more punishment whilst remaining completely inactive for 3 years and essentially devoting his times to politics and university lectures? Is that right? Thats absolute bullshit, Ali was at the peak of his powers in 67' and had physically matured. The people that worked with him directly noted this namely Angelo Dundee. (and don't try to tell me Dundees is being biased because he also said that he likes the 74' Ali best). Ali would do better in 67' then he would in 71', the only argument you have against this is Ali couldn't absorb as much punishment in 67' which would be a good argument if it was true, but it's not. The ideal way to fight a swarmer like Frazier is to simply stick and move, and no Ali wouldn't escape Joes onslaught completely but Frazier would have significantly less success in cutting the ring off. 'Maybe you should go back in time to Ali's corner and tell him he shouldn't trade punches with Frazier like you said' WOW what a stellar argument, i dont exactly have a delorean sitting in my garage now do i. Ali's only option was to trade as his legs would no longer allow consistent fluid movement hence a 67' Ali would be more sucessful as he could constantly move and avoid prolongued periods of inside fighting where Frazier was strongest. Im under no illusions, Frazier would give Ali a hell of a struggle but im confident that Ali's physical gifts would overcome this 3/5 times.


Dont be biased. Ali never had great power in his life but i know that he increased his punching power after the lay off. He was a lot stronger too. He was simply bigger and more matured. The diffirence is so obvious between 74 and 67. Thats all im saying. He could take so much punishment it was unreal. he was never tested in the 60s and you have no proof at all that he could take such a beating. I on the other hand, do have some kind of proof because he was almost KO'd by Cooper. You know the controversy of what Dundee did to save Ali from getting in more trouble and perhaps getting KO'd! See you never know because he was never tested in those days. SO from what im judging from is that he was more matured as a fighter and took a lot of punishment in the 70s, than the Ali from the 60s who was hurt by a punch that he would not have been hurt from in the 70s(I agree that he might've gone down but he would not have been hurt).

And on 'little henry cooper' little henry cooper through a not so little left hook dubbed 'enrys ammer', it was sharp, short and very powerful. Would a 67' Ali get dropped by it? He may be dropped by it if he was cocky and inexperienced enough to fool around and literally walk into it as with a 74 Ali. In 1967 Ali was beginning to peak and had 7 years of professional experience under his belt, he was no longer the 21 year old naieve cassius clay that fought cooper in 63 and if you did a little research you may come to this conclusion. If that left hook hit the way it did in 63 any version of Ali may have been knocked down but it would be nothing more then a flash knockdown, and it would most likely knock down fighters such as Joe Louis, Joe Frazier etc. Its inevitable that you will contest this which will confirm my suspicions of you underestimating the power in henry's left hand.


BEGINNING to peak. not totally peaked yet, wich is why i think Frazier would have worn him down and beat him every time.

You seem to believe that a 4 year period (he fought cooper in 63' is irrelevant. You have no proof whatsoever, how does Ali getting knocked down in 62 and 63 at the age of 20-21 equate to him getting knocked down in 67 at the age of 25 when he had clearly matured and many observing the man note this? Lets use your beloved Tyson as an example, age 17 in the amaturers (im sure an avid fan such as yourself has seen such fights) he is clearly smaller and less mature physically then he was at age 20 in the professional circuit. Its not just me that holds these 'wacky' views, whenever you come across historians talking about Clay vs Cooper you tend to see a pattern. 1) they talk about how dundee ripped the glove 2) they talk about how the knockdown was somewhat irrelevant as he was not physically mature.

'He was a lot stronger too. He was simply bigger and more matured.'

He was older, take a human bio lesson and you will find that Human males Peak at around 25-26..he was in his prime in 67'and theoretically between 67-70 were to be his peak years. A 74' Ali was old, he had physically peaked many years before this... he was declining. Ali had matured as a fighter in the sense he had more experience but he was not in peak physical condition. The only time Ali was bigger in the seventies was a result of FAT not an increase in lean muscle mass. Often He'd drop this fat for important fights. Against Ernie Terell in 1967 Ali weighed in at 213 lean pounds, against Frazier in 71' he was 215, in the rematch he was 212 and in the Foreman match he was 215, against norton he was 212. The only times he was significantly bigger was when he was carrying more bodyfat, often the result of slacking off against lesser opponents and his metabolism slowing down.

"The diffirence is so obvious between 74 and 67. Thats all im saying". - The difference between a 67 Ali and a 74 Ali is that one was declining rapidly whilst the other was in his physical prime. A 74 Ali had experience over the 67' Ali, but so did a 1990's Foreman over a 73' Foreman... 73' Foreman is still the better fighter as his physical assets offset the experience differential and the same applies to Ali.

'BEGINNING to peak. not totally peaked yet, wich is why i think Frazier would have worn him down and beat him every time.' - Ill be clear, Ali was in his peak years. Frazier is not going to have more sucess wearing down an Ali that is more mobile and difficult to find in the ring. People that think Frazier wouldn't cut Ali off eventually in the sixties are delusional, people that think Ali's lateral movement won't make any significant difference are just as delusional.

And whats this about me being biased? You clearly hate Ali whilst i like an respect both Frazier and Ali.


'Stop making fucking excuses. Cooper dropped that arrogant asshole with 1 punch. It was great to see.' - You obviously dislike Ali, And i like Ali...mmmmm... in that case how can i be any more slanted and biased then you are?

You seem to get the impression that i think Ali was some kind of untouchable god in the sixties. I am not under that impression and all. Frazier would always give Ali a life and death struggle and hes possibly the hardest possible matchup for Ali. However i believe that Ali's physical assets in the sixties and in particular his ability to move fluidly would offset Joes tremendous workrate. If they fought 5 times and i was a betting man i'd say Ali would take 3 and Joe the other 2 - I think thats a little more realistic then Frazier winning every fight.

i dont think its a sure thing that tyson would beat frazier
tyson may be faster but he didn't have a great chin and had NO heart. would definately be a quick fight though

i dont think its a sure thing that tyson would beat frazier
tyson may be faster but he didn't have a great chin and had NO heart. would definately be a quick fight though

True, but Frazier was a slow starter.

It would either be Tyson early or Frazier late.

i dont think its a sure thing that tyson would beat frazier
tyson may be faster but he didn't have a great chin and had NO heart. would definately be a quick fight though

tyson's chin was good people make it out that it was bad
but it was'nt

i still think frazier beats him most times though

You seem to believe that a 4 year period (he fought cooper in 63' is irrelevant. You have no proof whatsoever, how does Ali getting knocked down in 62 and 63 at the age of 20-21 equate to him getting knocked down in 67 at the age of 25 when he had clearly matured and many observing the man note this? Lets use your beloved Tyson as an example, age 17 in the amaturers (im sure an avid fan such as yourself has seen such fights) he is clearly smaller and less mature physically then he was at age 20 in the professional circuit. Its not just me that holds these 'wacky' views, whenever you come across historians talking about Clay vs Cooper you tend to see a pattern. 1) they talk about how dundee ripped the glove 2) they talk about how the knockdown was somewhat irrelevant as he was not physically mature.

'He was a lot stronger too. He was simply bigger and more matured.'

He was older, take a human bio lesson and you will find that Human males Peak at around 25-26..he was in his prime in 67'and theoretically between 67-70 were to be his peak years. A 74' Ali was old, he had physically peaked many years before this... he was declining. Ali had matured as a fighter in the sense he had more experience but he was not in peak physical condition. The only time Ali was bigger in the seventies was a result of FAT not an increase in lean muscle mass. Often He'd drop this fat for important fights. Against Ernie Terell in 1967 Ali weighed in at 213 lean pounds, against Frazier in 71' he was 215, in the rematch he was 212 and in the Foreman match he was 215, against norton he was 212. The only times he was significantly bigger was when he was carrying more bodyfat, often the result of slacking off against lesser opponents and his metabolism slowing down.

"The diffirence is so obvious between 74 and 67. Thats all im saying". - The difference between a 67 Ali and a 74 Ali is that one was declining rapidly whilst the other was in his physical prime. A 74 Ali had experience over the 67' Ali, but so did a 1990's Foreman over a 73' Foreman... 73' Foreman is still the better fighter as his physical assets offset the experience differential and the same applies to Ali.

'BEGINNING to peak. not totally peaked yet, wich is why i think Frazier would have worn him down and beat him every time.' - Ill be clear, Ali was in his peak years. Frazier is not going to have more sucess wearing down an Ali that is more mobile and difficult to find in the ring. People that think Frazier wouldn't cut Ali off eventually in the sixties are delusional, people that think Ali's lateral movement won't make any significant difference are just as delusional.

And whats this about me being biased? You clearly hate Ali whilst i like an respect both Frazier and Ali.


'Stop making fucking excuses. Cooper dropped that arrogant asshole with 1 punch. It was great to see.' - You obviously dislike Ali, And i like Ali...mmmmm... in that case how can i be any more slanted and biased then you are?

You seem to get the impression that i think Ali was some kind of untouchable god in the sixties. I am not under that impression and all. Frazier would always give Ali a life and death struggle and hes possibly the hardest possible matchup for Ali. However i believe that Ali's physical assets in the sixties and in particular his ability to move fluidly would offset Joes tremendous workrate. If they fought 5 times and i was a betting man i'd say Ali would take 3 and Joe the other 2 - I think thats a little more realistic then Frazier winning every fight.


Hahahaha you're so delusional. You want me to repeat everything again? Frazier would have beaten Ali from the 60s everytime because before the lay-off, he was never tested BUT against Cooper yes. Cooper was gonna get close to knocking Clay out if it wasn't for Dundee cheating. Look at the 70s, he took EVERYTHING a heavy hitter like Frazier had to offer, then Shavers and Foreman etc. 60s Ali would not be able to do that. Frazier would have worn him down and probably stop him. The diffirence was the amount of punishment Ali could take before and after the lay-off. You have bo proof that he could just because he ''looked physicaly matured'', looks can be deceving. Thats an undisputable fact ;)

And trust me on this, i like Ali(In the 70s) a lot. I watch his fights on espn classic all the time and i've even bough the movie greatest. So don't try to build up an argument of me hating Ali. I dont.

i dont think its a sure thing that tyson would beat frazier
tyson may be faster but he didn't have a great chin and had NO heart. would definately be a quick fight though

He had a great chin. Watch Tyson-Douglass, Holyfield, Tyson Ruddock1 and 2 where he lets his chin test by a puncher like Razor. Tyson had heart in his prime. Heart will not decide a fight anyway.

I guess you're one of those guy who still got his head shoved his ass by watching him quit vs Mcbride at age 39.

I guess you're one of those guy who still got his head shoved his ass by watching him quit vs Mcbride at age 39.

He's seen prime Tyson getting KO'd by a no puncher like Douglas.

Well, to be fair, that combo that Douglas landed was pretty nasty. The uppercut was probably all he needed to knock Tyson out, but he followed it with about 4 more hard punches.

He's seen prime Tyson getting KO'd by a no puncher like Douglas.

I've seen about 6 KO's from Douglass and the guy can punch. Hes even KO'd a guy with a left jab. You on the other hand, only saw him against Tyson and think he cant punch because he was not a famous fighter :rolleyes: . And yeah, that uppercut he landed on Tyson first would have KO'd 9 out of 10 fighters. Tyson didn't go down from that punch alone even.

once again Tyson lost to douglas because of a combination of Douglas having a fantastic night and Tyson having a bad night

Tyson partied and wasn't prepared correctly for the fight

Douglas had the fight of his life

the truth is that if the Douglas that used to fight fought the bad tyson he wouldn't have knocked him out he would have most likely won a decision

Hahahaha you're so delusional. You want me to repeat everything again? Frazier would have beaten Ali from the 60s everytime because before the lay-off, he was never tested BUT against Cooper yes. Cooper was gonna get close to knocking Clay out if it wasn't for Dundee cheating. Look at the 70s, he took EVERYTHING a heavy hitter like Frazier had to offer, then Shavers and Foreman etc. 60s Ali would not be able to do that. Frazier would have worn him down and probably stop him. The diffirence was the amount of punishment Ali could take before and after the lay-off. You have bo proof that he could just because he ''looked physicaly matured'', looks can be deceving. Thats an undisputable fact ;)

And trust me on this, i like Ali(In the 70s) a lot. I watch his fights on espn classic all the time and i've even bough the movie greatest. So don't try to build up an argument of me hating Ali. I dont.

Whats Dundee cheating got to do with anything? Did i ever deny that dundee cheated? did i ever deny that Ali was badly hurt? No .If you don't like Ali don't start sending personal messages implying you hate him. Wheres your proof that Ali couldn't take a hit 4 years after he was last dropped, clearly developed according to his trainer and observers and anyone with eyes that communicate with their brain. He was 212 pounds when he last fought in 1967, he was 213 pounds when he first fought again in 1970 so don't try to give me this he underwent a clear physiological change shit.... he merely AGED. I have no concrete PROOF and nor do you, but i unlike you have logic on my side.

once again Tyson lost to douglas because of a combination of Douglas having a fantastic night and Tyson having a bad night

I'm not saying Douglas is better than Tyson, far from it. Lots of champs have bad nights but very few are KO'd in such a way, especially at the height of their powers by such an underdog.

The Douglas incident showed us what happens when Tysons chin is exposed to attack.

once again Tyson lost to douglas because of a combination of Douglas having a fantastic night and Tyson having a bad night

Tyson partied and wasn't prepared correctly for the fight

Douglas had the fight of his life

the truth is that if the Douglas that used to fight fought the bad tyson he wouldn't have knocked him out he would have most likely won a decision

No, we have no proof of this. No-one ever fought Tyson aswell as douglas did and if that fight happened 3-4 years earlier Tyson would still lack the experience and confidence to overcome the difficulty he would face. In 1986 watch his fight against james tillis, he couldn't put him away and was clearly getting frustrated. Tillis was nothing special at all and made Tyson look horrible on that night, put buster in his place and Tyson would crumble. Ive recently watched the early Tyson fights again, and one thing i do notice is when Tyson is in the corner shaking his head at rooney and looking rather aggravated. In the face of adversity he'd always crumble.

I'm not saying Douglas is better than Tyson, far from it. Lots of champs have bad nights but very few are KO'd in such a way, especially at the height of their powers by such an underdog.

The Douglas incident showed us what happens when Tysons chin is exposed to attack.
well tyson's entire defense was based around his chin

look at his stance his hands are always on his chin

i'm not gunna say he had a glass chin but it wasn't like Lamatta's or Fraziers

i dissagree i allways thought tyson has good chin, in all his ko losses he has taken tremendous amounts off punishment.

When Tyson was knocked out, he wasn't knocked out easily. He took a tremendous beating before he went down. I would have to say he had an amazing chin, the last two fights I'm not really counting, he blew out his knee against Williams, I think that affected his performance and his last fight the will simply wasn't there but before those two he showed he had a chin.

well it may be that when he was younger he didn't have a good chin but when he physically matured he did or something

but as far as i know his defense was focused around his chin

Whats Dundee cheating got to do with anything? Did i ever deny that dundee cheated? did i ever deny that Ali was badly hurt? No .If you don't like Ali don't start sending personal messages implying you hate him. Wheres your proof that Ali couldn't take a hit 4 years after he was last dropped, clearly developed according to his trainer and observers and anyone with eyes that communicate with their brain. He was 212 pounds when he last fought in 1967, he was 213 pounds when he first fought again in 1970 so don't try to give me this he underwent a clear physiological change shit.... he merely AGED. I have no concrete PROOF and nor do you, but i unlike you have logic on my side.

WHat personal messages? I gave you karma and wanted to educate you because it seems like you are blinded by love on Ali.
Where's my proof? Holy shit, how many times do i have to repeat myself? Because Ali was hurt before and didn't look as matured as in the 70s. He was still young and could get in top shape with ease so dont give me that ''fat look'' he had.

WHat personal messages? I gave you karma and wanted to educate you because it seems like you are blinded by love on Ali.
Where's my proof? Holy shit, how many times do i have to repeat myself? Because Ali was hurt before and didn't look as matured as in the 70s. He was still young and could get in top shape with ease so dont give me that ''fat look'' he had.

frazier probably wouldn't beat prime ali. he would have a good chance, but it's not likely. ali showed he could take a punch even in the 60's. liston hit him with some good shots and ali took them, and liston punches harder than frazier does, so my guess is that in '67 ali would take good punishment from frazier, only frazier wouldn't have found ali as often, because he would have been faster. frazier would always give ali a tough time, but i believe prime ali would beat prime frazier.

frazier probably wouldn't beat prime ali. he would have a good chance, but it's not likely. ali showed he could take a punch even in the 60's. liston hit him with some good shots and ali took them, and liston punches harder than frazier does, so my guess is that in '67 ali would take good punishment from frazier, only frazier wouldn't have found ali as often, because he would have been faster. frazier would always give ali a tough time, but i believe prime ali would beat prime frazier.
there's where your wrong
Joe frazier prime punches alot harder then Liston prime
don't get me wrong sonny liston hits very hard but not even close to joe frazier-- on a scale of 1-100 i'd give Joe frazier in the late 80's - mid 90's (Foreman being 100 lol) i'd give Liston late 70's early 80's

also Ali would have more trouble with Frazier because Frazier was a swarmer and if i'm not mistaken Liston was a slugger. Ali couldn't fight on the inside which is where frazier excelled, Frazier was also good at getting inside at that. Lastly Frazier's best punch was the one Ali was most seceptibale too, the left hook

Prime Frazier Ko's prime Ali in 13-15 or Ali wins a MD or SD

1941 louis beats 1971 frazier. if louis came in like he did the second schmeling fight he would end frazier's career.

1941 louis beats 1971 frazier. if louis came in like he did the second schmeling fight he would end frazier's career.

that fight was vicious but i'm not sure Frazier would be as straight foward and easy to hit as shcmeling was that nigth

I agree with butterfly on this one. Anyone who moves like Ali did in his prime is going to give whoever he fights a lot of problems. Prime Ali had better timing, more speed, and was much harder to hit because he could dance non-stop for 15 rounds. And even when you do hit him, your punch is not going to land with full force, because Ali will be moving away from you. Frazier was a great pressure fighter, and he'd give prime Ali a fight, sure, but Ali is not going to be laying on the ropes waiting for Frazier like he did in 71' and beyond.
Ali definetly took a better punch in 71' than he did in 63', but we don't really have any evidence that he took a better punch in 71' than he did in 67', cause he never really got hit around 67'! If your basing his ability to take a punch on his weight, then I'll concede he'll probably take a little better punch in 71' than he would in 67', but not that much better because he was around 212 in 67' and 215 in 71'. Around 67' he was just about fully developed physically.
And lastly, I have Tom Hausers's biography of Ali, and in interviews George Chuvalo and Floyd Patterson, guys who fought Ali before and after his layoff, both said that the pre-layoff Ali was a better fighter than the post-layoff Ali. And Chuvalo was a pressure fighter if I remember correctly?
Ali beats Frazier by 15th round UD, say 10 rounds to 5, or 9 rounds to 6.

Yeah Frazier is definetly a better fighter than Schmelling and probably harder to hit, but I can't see him beating Louis either. Louis' punches were hard, fast and accurate, and with Frazier coming straight at him I see Frazier taking a vicious whipping right on the face. If Ali could hit him with so many jabs it scares me to think what Louis would do to him. Frazier would either get knocked out or stopped in the mid rounds, if not earlier.

that fight was vicious but i'm not sure Frazier would be as straight foward and easy to hit as shcmeling was that nigth
foreman was hitting him plenty and louis was more accurate.

foreman was hitting him plenty and louis was more accurate.
what i meant was schmelling came right at louis, Frazier would be weaving and such

if louis were to win (which is possible) it would probably be a late round ko

frazier was bobbing and weaving foreman and foreman was way less acurate than louis and he still caught him with alot of shots.

there's where your wrong
Joe frazier prime punches alot harder then Liston prime
don't get me wrong sonny liston hits very hard but not even close to joe frazier-- on a scale of 1-100 i'd give Joe frazier in the late 80's - mid 90's (Foreman being 100 lol) i'd give Liston late 70's early 80's

also Ali would have more trouble with Frazier because Frazier was a swarmer and if i'm not mistaken Liston was a slugger. Ali couldn't fight on the inside which is where frazier excelled, Frazier was also good at getting inside at that. Lastly Frazier's best punch was the one Ali was most seceptibale too, the left hook

Prime Frazier Ko's prime Ali in 13-15 or Ali wins a MD or SD

joe frazier doesn't punch nearly as hard as liston. liston knocked people out with his jab alone, something frazier could never do. any knowledgeable boxing historian would agree with me that liston hit harder than frazier.

ali's chin was just as good in '67 as it was in '71. was ali ever knocked down or hurt in the mid to late 60s? nope, he sure wasn't. and ali got hit more than you think. watch ali-chuvalo I and tell me if ali can't take punishment. chuvalo bulled his way through like a tank and ali layed on the ropes and took chuvalo's punches, just like he layed on the ropes and took foreman's punches in '74. ali is much faster in the 60's, and frazier would hit ali as much: This is a fact. it's only logical, that ali would avoid more shots in '67 and '71, since he was in fact faster on his feet. frazier barely beat a slow ali, so how would he crush a fast one?

WHat personal messages? I gave you karma and wanted to educate you because it seems like you are blinded by love on Ali.
Where's my proof? Holy shit, how many times do i have to repeat myself? Because Ali was hurt before and didn't look as matured as in the 70s. He was still young and could get in top shape with ease so dont give me that ''fat look'' he had.

Bullshit, if anyones blinded its you blinded by hate. You are getting confused with Ali ageing and Ali reaching his physical peak. Ali was hurt before, your correct... hurt before he reached his physical peak. He was hurt last in 1963? How does that equate to lack of ability to absorb punishment in 1967? Have you ever heard of an athlete having significant positive physiological development after the age of 25-26? On the otherhand Males most definately develop between the age of 20-25? Im slanted? Yet you refuse to acknowledge circumstances regarding Ali's career but all too often do the opposite in regard to Tyson's career?

You educated me? Your a fucken joke on this board and if anyone wants evidence look at the Tyson thread where he produces the BRILLIANT Person A beats Person B and Person B beats Person C thus PERSON A OBVIOUSLY DEFEATS PERSON C theory - AND THIS IS EVIDENCE... Fuck you are the epitome of an educated boxing fan without bias aren't you? - Who the fuck are you to try and educate anyone after posting some of the dumbest shit ever seen on boxingscene. You proceed to call me biased and slanted when i produce circumstances surrounding an event that occured in Ali's career yet you produce every exscuse under the fucken sun for Tyson getting his ass handed to him by Buster

And you are correct, Ali could shape up in the seventies and when he did his weight matched his peak performing weight in the sixties? Thus he hadn't gained lean muscle mass and he hadn't developed in a beneficial manner, merely aged. Look At Ali vs Terell then look at Ali in the FOTC. They are essentially identical, even the same outfits.

Oh,and commenting on the above posts. Liston hits harder then Frazier , however Frazier would always be a harder matchup for Ali.

what i meant was schmelling came right at louis, Frazier would be weaving and such

if louis were to win (which is possible) it would probably be a late round ko

Yeah Frazier was definately better then Schmeling. Louis would struggle with someone like Frazier. Later in life he admitted he disliked fighting on the backfoot, under pressure thus its very possible that Frazier would win.

Yeah, Frazier could do well against Louis if he got inside, but I think he'd take too much punishment trying to get there. Ali landed a ton of punches on Frazier's head as Frazier worked his way inside, and considering that Louis' punches are possibly a little more accurate than Ali's, almost as quick, and definetly harder, I think Louis would do an awful lot of damage to Frazier's head. Also consider that Louis is probably the best combination puncher in heavyweight history, and a fast starter. Taking 3 punches to land 1 against the light-punching Ali is one thing; taking 3 punches to land 1 against Joe Louis is entirely another.

Louis KO/TKO Frazier RD 7

Bullshit, if anyones blinded its you blinded by hate. You are getting confused with Ali ageing and Ali reaching his physical peak. Ali was hurt before, your correct... hurt before he reached his physical peak. He was hurt last in 1963? How does that equate to lack of ability to absorb punishment in 1967? Have you ever heard of an athlete having significant positive physiological development after the age of 25-26? On the otherhand Males most definately develop between the age of 20-25? Im slanted? Yet you refuse to acknowledge circumstances regarding Ali's career but all too often do the opposite in regard to Tyson's career?

You educated me? Your a fucken joke on this board and if anyone wants evidence look at the Tyson thread where he produces the BRILLIANT Person A beats Person B and Person B beats Person C thus PERSON A OBVIOUSLY DEFEATS PERSON C - AND THIS IS EVIDENCE... Fuck you are the epitome of an educated boxing fan without bias aren't you?

And you are correct, Ali COULD shape up in the seventies and when he did his weight matched his peak performing weight in the sixties? Thus he hadn't gained lean muscle mass and he hadn't developed in a beneficial manner, merely AGED. Look At Ali vs Terell... Look at Ali in the FOTC. They are essentially identical, even the same outfits.

Oh, and commenting on the above posts. Liston hits harder then Frazier, however Frazier would always be a harder matchup.

I can't seem to understand you since Ali's cock is in your mouth. Go read my other posts. You know im right about this. If you weren't gay you would understand.

And the stuff you made up are redicilous. I don't hate Ali, Tyson doesn't have anything to do with this(Shows you how owned you are cause you have to bring in my fav fighter in it everytime) and i don't know why im even trying. Ali fanboys are the worst kind. They dont believe he could be beaten even though he did.

And go read the bad karma i gave you. I hope it pisses you off.

I can't seem to understand you since Ali's cock is in your mouth. Go read my other posts. You know im right about this. If you weren't gay you would understand.

And the stuff you made up are redicilous. I don't hate Ali, Tyson doesn't have anything to do with this(Shows you how owned you are cause you have to bring in my fav fighter in it everytime) and i don't know why im even trying. Ali fanboys are the worst kind. They dont believe he could be beaten even though he did.

And go read the bad karma i gave you. I hope it pisses you off.

You've owned me? What without logically arguing anything you have owned me... wow dude your fucken L33T aren't you. Go read your other posts? Why would i waste another second of my life re-reading the work of some child that was born missing a chromosome or 2? Give me all the bad K you want, atleast im not the boxingscene clown of the week for posting shit so dumb that you now belong in the Tommyhearns category. Your view on Tyson shows how much of a hypocritical retard you are. I dont believe Ali could be beaten - ah sorry but i do and i often acknowledge that he wasn't unbeatable?.. im not the retard trying to justify my favourite fighter getting bitchslapped from ringpost to ringpost and crumbling like the rapist bitch he was whilst in his prime against a nobody. So who the fuck is the fanboy? Why don't you fuck off and post somewhere else instead of roaming these forums, mouth stuffed to the brim with Tysons nuts polluting the boards with your crap.

You've owned me? What without logically arguing anything you have owned me... wow dude your fucken L33T aren't you. Go read your other posts? Why would i waste another second of my life re-reading the work of some child that was born missing a chromosome or 2? Give me all the bad K you want, atleast im not the boxingscene clown of the week for posting shit so dumb that you now belong in the Tommyhearns category. Your view on Tyson shows how much of a hypocritical retard you are. I dont believe Ali could be beaten - ah sorry but i do and i often acknowledge that he wasn't unbeatable?.. im not the retard trying to justify my favourite fighter getting bitchslapped from ringpost to ringpost and crumbling like the rapist bitch he was whilst in his prime against a nobody. So who the fuck is the fanboy? Why don't you fuck off and post somewhere else instead of roaming these forums, mouth stuffed to the brim with Tysons nuts polluting the boards with your crap.

Ahhh i see i reached my goal, wich is to piss you off :D Fraziers 15th round made you cry like a little bitch when he insulted Ali haha. Like i said, you're an Ali ballsucker and your posts aren't any diffirent than the other Ali homos. You'll never admit that Ali was not a God, and you'll never become straight. Suck on that bitch.

Whoa another stellar fucken retort by Yaman. Did daddy touch you as a child you deluded little retard? your no different to any Tyson fan 'oooh he had a hard upbringing, but cus died, he didn't have rooney in his corner, i want his penis down my throat'

'Stop making fucking excuses. Cooper dropped that arrogant asshole with 1 punch. It was great to see.' - who got angry in the first place homo?

I don't blame you for being so defensive and angry.... your favourite fighter will never be considered a great, he was nothing more then a rapist, ear munching piece of shit that crumbled against a nobody like the bitch he was. :)

haha, funny posts!! good k to both yaman and heckler for making me roll out of my chair laughing, ahahahahahaha!!!! :D :D

There are not many but there are fighters who could beat prime ali

Prime Frazier just happens to have one of the best chances and is acknowledged for such

Joe Frazier is a beast

:D

Whoa another stellar fucken retort by Yaman. Did daddy touch you as a child you deluded little retard? your no different to any Tyson fan 'oooh he had a hard upbringing, but cus died, he didn't have rooney in his corner, i want his penis down my throat'

'Stop making fucking excuses. Cooper dropped that arrogant asshole with 1 punch. It was great to see.' - who got angry in the first place homo?

I don't blame you for being so defensive and angry.... your favourite fighter will never be considered a great, he was nothing more then a rapist, ear munching piece of shit that crumbled against a nobody like the bitch he was. :)

I didn't quite understand that last sentence since ALi's cock was making you sound like the chearleader you are. But hey, i see you're very angry right now and thats all i wanted. To entertain myself.

Just remember that prime Ali doesn't stand a chance against prime Frazier. He would loose 10 out of 10 times because he was dropped by 180lb little Cooper and Banks, wich means he could not take punishment :D

The 71 Miami dolphins

The 71 Miami dolphins

they are overrated. :D

they are overrated. :D

I'd have to agree with that, but that's only because it was actually the '72 Dolphins who had the perfect season of 17-0.

I'd have to agree with that, but that's only because it was actually the '72 Dolphins who had the perfect season of 17-0.
i don't even follow football that much and i know about the 72 dolphins

i don't even follow football that much and i know about the 72 dolphins

Yeah, I don't watch much football either, as you'd REALLY have to stretch it to even call me a "casual fan" of that sport (besides one, maybe two games a year that I'll catch on a boring day of nothing else to do, my watching of it consists of whatever's on the hilite reels at night time).

lol, football. Ive tried watching it once or twice, but its just too slow and structure for my liking... we watch rugby over here.

I didn't quite understand that last sentence since ALi's cock was making you sound like the chearleader you are. But hey, i see you're very angry right now and thats all i wanted. To entertain myself.

Just remember that prime Ali doesn't stand a chance against prime Frazier. He would loose 10 out of 10 times because he was dropped by 180lb little Cooper and Banks, wich means he could not take punishment :D

You can see that im angry? look at my posts in general i ALWAYS post in such a fashion... but im not an angry person at all nor am i angry at the moment, ive been laughing my arse off at how pathetic you are... hence the pathetic retort. But shit, if theres a device that lets one find out a fellow posters emotions maybe theres one that allows me to stab you in the face over the internet... and angry or not im sure alot of us would oblige in using it on you for being such a retard... now go join the lee huggers and have a circle jerk.. im sure you'll fit right in, we all know your on the hunt for some gayness in your anus :D

It's too bad Frazier didn't have this kind of determination after the first Ali fight. He got fat and lazy.

yeah whatever, he trained his arse off for all his Ali fights... he wanted to hurt Ali (and fair enough) and was motivated as a result.

Foreman,Bowe,Lewis,both Klitchko's,Holyfield,Holmes,Bonavena who did beat Frazier and get robbed,I used to say Tyson would lose but i changed,Tyson would beat him,A prime 20's Ron Lyle,Maybe a prime Norton,a in shape hungry Buster Douglas like the one who fought Tyson,A hungry Tommy Morrison,A confident Gerry Cooney,A confident Frank Bruno,Maybe even a guy like a prime Alex Stewart, the list goes on kid..
Frazier was good but just like any short heavyweight with short arms he would always have problems with guys taller than him who could bang and jab a little and Frazier was a slow starter which ment alot of really hard punchers who were agressive might get him out quickly.

You can see that im angry? look at my posts in general i ALWAYS post in such a fashion... but im not an angry person at all nor am i angry at the moment, ive been laughing my arse off at how pathetic you are... hence the pathetic retort. But shit, if theres a device that lets one find out a fellow posters emotions maybe theres one that allows me to stab you in the face over the internet... and angry or not im sure alot of us would oblige in using it on you for being such a retard... now go join the lee huggers and have a circle jerk.. im sure you'll fit right in, we all know your on the hunt for some gayness in your anus :D


Yeahhh you weren't angry. I guess thats why you used the words fuck, cock and all that other gay shit your daddy teaches you. And i guess thats why you want to stab me in the face with an internet device. Bruce Lee would beat Ali, Prime Frazier beats him 3 times in a row. No chance. Anyone really :) .

Now go search a life because i gave you yours.

Yeahhh you weren't angry. I guess thats why you used the words fuck, cock and all that other gay shit your daddy teaches you. And i guess thats why you want to stab me in the face with an internet device. Bruce Lee would beat Ali, Prime Frazier beats him 3 times in a row. No chance. Anyone really :) .

Now go search a life because i gave you yours.

You gave me my life? Mummy? You see the words fuck and cock and 'gay shit' apply to your persona Yaman... They collectively describe your homosexual tendancies with extreme accuracy... your gay and like to fuck cock right? Thought so... no need to beat around the bush here Yaman.. everyone knows you wanna big piece of mangina. Who wouldn't want to stab you in the face? Not out of anger, but out of consideration... out of fear that you may spawn a new generation of cocksucking retards.

You gave me my life? Mummy? You see the words fuck and cock and 'gay shit' apply to your persona Yaman... They collectively describe your homosexual tendancies with extreme accuracy... your gay and like to fuck cock right? Thought so... no need to beat around the bush here Yaman.. everyone knows you wanna big piece of mangina. Who wouldn't want to stab you in the face? Not out of anger, but out of consideration... out of fear that you may spawn a new generation of cocksucking retards.

My my, aren't we a bit tence :D
This is so funny. Why would you even be so angry about a couple of letters? You freaking net geek. Maybe your ugly ass momma should spank your ass more often so you wont use gay words that daddy taught you while he was raping her.

Frazier KO1 Ali :)

yeah whatever, he trained his arse off for all his Ali fights... he wanted to hurt Ali (and fair enough) and was motivated as a result.

No, not the second one. I wasn't talking about Ali anyway, I was mainly referring to Foreman.

Yaman with all of the dicks you had up your ass in your life time one would think it would be hard for you to sit down and post anything.You must have one strong asshole little kid.
What a clown this child is..he calls others gay when he is the one with men on his avitar...how gay is that?i never seen him make a logical point because he can't you show him up and the boy results to ***got jokes.well just another person on my ignore list.

My my, aren't we a bit tence :D
This is so funny. Why would you even be so angry about a couple of letters? You freaking net geek. Maybe your ugly ass momma should spank your ass more often so you wont use gay words that daddy taught you while he was raping her.

Frazier KO1 Ali :)

WHOA.... and im angry? your having a little bitch fit, tears flowing down your pre-pubescent, semen covered face. Your crying like your mother did when i banged that whore with my 12 inch piece of meat - ahh being pathetic is great ainit :D.... You freaking net geek? is that right mr 900 posts rofl. Its alright, wipe those tears away little man.... im sure mr tyson will massage your tonsils with his penis soon enough.

Oh and... Buster Douglas (a nobody) KO 10 Tyson... Hurts when its true don't it :D !!!!!

WHOA.... and im angry? your having a little bitch fit, tears flowing down your pre-pubescent, semen covered face. Your crying like your mother did when i banged that whore with my 12 inch piece of meat - ahh being pathetic is great ainit :D.... You freaking net geek? is that right mr 900 posts rofl. Its alright, wipe those tears away little man.... im sure mr tyson will massage your tonsils with his penis soon enough.

Oh and... Buster Douglas (a nobody) KO 10 Tyson... Hurts when its true don't it :D !!!!!

Dont try to cover it up with green smiley faces when you're pissed off caused i owned you like i owned the piece of shit your whore of a mother is :) . GO have an orgy with thommyhearns because both of you are obsessed Ali chearleaders.
Henry Cooper KO'd ALi. Banks nearly KO'd him too. You know in your heart Ali was gonna get knocked out by a little 180lb white guy who lost like 50 times haha :D Just admit it.

Dont try to cover it up with green smiley faces when you're pissed off caused i owned you like i owned the piece of shit your whore of a mother is :) . GO have an orgy with thommyhearns because both of you are obsessed Ali chearleaders.
Henry Cooper KO'd ALi. Banks nearly KO'd him too. You know in your heart Ali was gonna get knocked out by a little 180lb white guy who lost like 50 times haha :D Just admit it.


Awwww the epitome of a REALLY pissed off person and im sure anyone viewing will see this. Seriously dude take a visit to the doctor and get some prozac, whilst at it get some treatment for that stretched and swollen anus of yours. Oh and Tyson got knocked out by danny williams, Douglas , and the ALLMIGHTY KEVIN MCBRIDE - again... the truth hurts doesn't it? a bit like your asshole the day after Ol Pa comes home all liquored up to give you some prostate stimulation right? :luvbed:

for that stretched and swollen anus of yours.

Is that what you think about all day? I know enough Heckler, or should i say gayler :D . Net geek getting all excited about some letters on a screen haha! I owned you enough, that must have been horrible for you :( . Go keep this up and maybe you'll get banned.

white 180lb Henry ''60 losses'' Cooper KO'd him wich prooves Ali's chin was glass in the 60s. Banks KO'd him. Frazier KO'd him. Norton beat him 3 times. Worst HW champ ever Leon Spinks beat him twice. Larry Holmes killed him. That is THEE truth of THEE greatest.

Ali did have a padded record. Not quite as bad as Foreman's, but it was pretty bad. He beat up on tomato cans like Brian London, Jurgen Blin, and Rudi Lubbers. He then beats up on bad back Patterson, 35 year old Zora Folley, and a literally shot Cleveland Williams. He got knocked out by Cooper, and was beaten from pillar to post by Frazier and Holmes.

Is that what you think about all day? I know enough Heckler, or should i say gayler :D . Net geek getting all excited about some letters on a screen haha! I owned you enough, that must have been horrible for you :( . Go keep this up and maybe you'll get banned.

white 180lb Henry ''60 losses'' Cooper KO'd him wich prooves Ali's chin was glass in the 60s. Banks KO'd him. Frazier KO'd him. Norton beat him 3 times. Worst HW champ ever Leon Spinks beat him twice. Larry Holmes killed him. That is THEE truth of THEE greatest.


ooooh now Yaman goes BACK to the topic that he chose to deviate from... probably because 'i owned you like i owned the piece of shit your whore of a mother is'?

'white 180lb Henry ''60 losses'' cooper' - what does him being white have to with it? I thought you homosexuals were open-minded folk?

Face it, ive not only owned you in the serious, logical argument... but also this pathetic, childish arguement. Go have a cry and comeback when your brain is fully developed. :D

Geez!

I'll be the first to admit that I throw the odd flame out every now and then to selective targets, but this thread is something else in that regards. And even though I don't know Yaman well enough...Heckler, you're better than this, my friend, and have proven so many a times on here.

Yeah fair enough Yogi.. i just couldn't help but retort in the same pathetic fashion he uses to argue when he started getting childish and deviating from the arguement. He did the same thing with smasher and got burned so why he continues is beyond me. Its pointless, arguing with a kid essentially... so i'll stop.

To the original question.

Yes.

Yeah fair enough Yogi.. i just couldn't help but retort in the same pathetic fashion he uses to argue when he started getting childish and deviating from the arguement. He did the same thing with smasher and got burned so why he continues is beyond me. Its pointless, arguing with a kid essentially... so i'll stop.

I got burned? Hah! Who is the one banned now? Huh? Tell me that? I owned him just like i owned you.

I got burned? Hah! Who is the one banned now? Huh? Tell me that? I owned him just like i owned you.

Boxingscene would be crazy to ban you. Your ridiculous rants provide countless hours of amusement for those of us who marvel at how a chimpanzee can be trained to use a computer.

Frazier's 15th Round Frazier was lazy because of?People assume Frazier was always 205 before and when he fought Ali when in reality some fights before Ali he was over 210 pounds..If you really believe going from 205 in the Ali fight to 214 in his first Foreman fight would take that much out of him then you proved my point when i say no 180 pound fighter could move up 40 pounds and beat a good 220 pound fighter.
Frazier isn't the type of man to become lazy.No matter what Frazier did against guys like Foreman,Lewis or Bowe he would always lose.He could never hurt Foreman with his power.He could never out box him and i doubt he could hurt Lewis or Bowe.And Frazier Ali fought basically the same guys Foreman fought so if Foreman had a padded record then so did Ali.If anything Ali fought more bums.As you said Ali fought a old washed up Patterson who had a bad back and couldn't stop him.A old "shot" Cleveland Williams,Cooper who was a complete bum ect ect ect.
Frazier also had his share of hand picked fighters infact every fighter who ever boxed did.The only differnce is that Ali struggled time after time to beat average or below average fighters while Frazier only struggled with hall of fame fighters.To beat Frazier you had to be great.No guy like Henry Cooper would ever floor Frazier and almost have him out with one punch.No guy like Doug Jones who was a decent fighter would buckle Frazier with one punch.
But that being said taller fighters would always give him trouble just like the do every other sub 6 feet heavweight.

Frazier's 15th Round Frazier was lazy because of?People assume Frazier was always 205 before and when he fought Ali when in reality some fights before Ali he was over 210 pounds..If you really believe going from 205 in the Ali fight to 214 in his first Foreman fight would take that much out of him then you proved my point when i say no 180 pound fighter could move up 40 pounds and beat a good 220 pound fighter.
Frazier isn't the type of man to become lazy.No matter what Frazier did against guys like Foreman,Lewis or Bowe he would always lose.He could never hurt Foreman with his power.He could never out box him and i doubt he could hurt Lewis or Bowe.And Frazier Ali fought basically the same guys Foreman fought so if Foreman had a padded record then so did Ali.If anything Ali fought more bums.As you said Ali fought a old washed up Patterson who had a bad back and couldn't stop him.A old "shot" Cleveland Williams,Cooper who was a complete bum ect ect ect.
Frazier also had his share of hand picked fighters infact every fighter who ever boxed did.The only differnce is that Ali struggled time after time to beat average or below average fighters while Frazier only struggled with hall of fame fighters.To beat Frazier you had to be great.No guy like Henry Cooper would ever floor Frazier and almost have him out with one punch.No guy like Doug Jones who was a decent fighter would buckle Frazier with one punch.
But that being said taller fighters would always give him trouble just like the do every other sub 6 feet heavweight.
frazier had better boxing skills then foreman.

He had better skill ?Is that why Foreman knocked him out 2 times?Did Frazier have a jab?Did Frazier have a right hand like Foreman?Did he cut off the ring like Foreman?Oh he didnt?So it must of ment Foreman was more skilled then Frazier so try again.

frazier had better boxing skills then foreman.

Not only that but he head more heart, more determination, and he wouldn't retire for 10 years after he lost.

Frazier > Foreman

but somebody like Frazier at that stage in there career trying to get to foreman is crazy

but Foreman is a hell of a fighter punching power

Foreman > Frazier

Frazier isn't the type of man to become lazy.No matter what Frazier did against guys like Foreman,Lewis or Bowe he would always lose.He could never hurt Foreman with his power.He could never out box him and i doubt he could hurt Lewis or Bowe.And Frazier Ali fought basically the same guys Foreman fought so if Foreman had a padded record then so did Ali.If anything Ali fought more bums.As you said Ali fought a old washed up Patterson who had a bad back and couldn't stop him.A old "shot" Cleveland Williams,Cooper who was a complete bum ect ect ect.
Frazier also had his share of hand picked fighters infact every fighter who ever boxed did.The only differnce is that Ali struggled time after time to beat average or below average fighters while Frazier only struggled with hall of fame fighters.To beat Frazier you had to be great.No guy like Henry Cooper would ever floor Frazier and almost have him out with one punch.No guy like Doug Jones who was a decent fighter would buckle Frazier with one punch.
But that being said taller fighters would always give him trouble just like the do every other sub 6 feet heavweight.

I Disagree about Lewis and Bowe. I think Lewis is too cautious when he fights, and even Eddie Futch said that Frazier would wreck Bowe. And yes, Frazier did have some easy opponents, like Zyglewicz, Daniels, and Ellis (the second time) rather than fight guys like Mac Foster, Young, Norton, and Lyle. Ron Stander, who beat Earnie Shavers, is a better name on Joe's resume than Shavers ever would be.

A prime Foreman gets my money bet

A prime Foreman gets my money bet
lol
Prime Foreman has a good chance at nearly anyone

He had better skill ?Is that why Foreman knocked him out 2 times?Did Frazier have a jab?Did Frazier have a right hand like Foreman?Did he cut off the ring like Foreman?Oh he didnt?So it must of ment Foreman was more skilled then Frazier so try again.

Not only was Frazier a more accurate and faster puncher, he was possibly the greatest inside fighter of all time. His defense was more skilled, his offense was more skilled. Bobbing, weaving, slamming a right to the body a left to the head... <-- that makes him look like Joe Louis next to George Foreman. George lumbered forward throwing ferocious punches, he was the epitome of an unskilled slugger. He beat Frazier because of his huge physical assets and stylistic advantage not because he was more skilled.

Not only was Frazier a more accurate and faster puncher, he was possibly the greatest inside fighter of all time. His defense was more skilled, his offense was more skilled. Bobbing, weaving, slamming a right to the body a left to the head... <-- that makes him look like Joe Louis next to George Foreman. George lumbered forward throwing ferocious punches, he was the epitome of an unskilled slugger. He beat Frazier because of his huge physical assets and stylistic advantage not because he was more skilled.

That is your opinon but he opinon of simple minded children never concern me much.If Frazier had a better-defense and Foreman was so slow and wild wouldn't Frazier made Foreman miss and counter punched Foreman until he broke him down?Frazier didnt really have much of a defense and the bobbing style only worked against the f leveled fighters.
Frazier had a better offense?Right that is why the only punch Frazier really had was the hook while Foreman had every punch in the book to use.Frazier didnt jab.He didnt have a right hand.The only punch Frazier had that was close to being quick was his hook and did it work against Foreman?Nobody really respect Joe like they did Foreman.
You can use the old well Foreman only won because he hit hard routine but he Foreman was so slow he wouldn't land his punches which ment he would of lost more than 5 times out of 81 fights.If Foreman had such poor stamina he would of gotten tired in more than 2 fights.He would be tired in every fight especially if he was so slow and so unskilled and just came in winging wild punches.
Its cute to try to say nice things about Frazier because you feel bad for him because Foreman beat the living crap out of him 2 times but Frazier isn't in the same league as Foreman.Frazier never made another fighter duck him or fear him.Foreman has kicked azz from the 60's to the 90s and he could probably do so now if he wanted too.F
Foreman is a true legend and Frazier is just known for getting lucky to be a cocky ill prepared Ali.

Not only was Frazier a more accurate and faster puncher, he was possibly the greatest inside fighter of all time. His defense was more skilled, his offense was more skilled. Bobbing, weaving, slamming a right to the body a left to the head... <-- that makes him look like Joe Louis next to George Foreman. George lumbered forward throwing ferocious punches, he was the epitome of an unskilled slugger. He beat Frazier because of his huge physical assets and stylistic advantage not because he was more skilled.

That is your opinon but he opinon of simple minded children never concern me much.If Frazier had a better-defense and Foreman was so slow and wild wouldn't Frazier made Foreman miss and counter punched Foreman until he broke him down?Frazier didnt really have much of a defense and the bobbing style only worked against the f leveled fighters.
Frazier had a better offense?Right that is why the only punch Frazier really had was the hook while Foreman had every punch in the book to use.Frazier didnt jab.He didnt have a right hand.The only punch Frazier had that was close to being quick was his hook and did it work against Foreman?Nobody really respect Joe like they did Foreman.
You can use the old well Foreman only won because he hit hard routine but he Foreman was so slow he wouldn't land his punches which ment he would of lost more than 5 times out of 81 fights.If Foreman had such poor stamina he would of gotten tired in more than 2 fights.He would be tired in every fight especially if he was so slow and so unskilled and just came in winging wild punches.
Its cute to try to say nice things about Frazier because you feel bad for him because Foreman beat the living crap out of him 2 times but Frazier isn't in the same league as Foreman.Frazier never made another fighter duck him or fear him.Foreman has kicked azz from the 60's to the 90s and he could probably do so now if he wanted too.F
Foreman is a true legend and Frazier is just known for getting lucky to be a cocky ill prepared Ali.

jimmy ellis ducked frazier for about two years before they fought(1968-1970).just my two cents. :)

Shavers found reasons not to get in the ring with Frazier, as well.

Ill-prepared Ali? Ali had just beaten the number one contender Quarry as well as another contender Bonavena. He had 3 training camps, and various exhibitions. He was prepared, and put on a great performance even though he lost.

How did Foreman do against Ali? Oh yeah, he lost every round and barely landed a clean head shot all night.

How did Foreman do against Ali? Oh yeah, he lost every round and barely landed a clean head shot all night.
Now, now don't be sarcastic. I counted 6.

Tommyhearns, do you ever wonder why people flame you so much... just look at your fucken posts. Frazier wasn't able to work on the inside because George was too physically overwhelming. He was not more skilled, its amazing how George did so well lacking a solid skillbase. If you believe that George beat Frazier because he was more skilled man you are delusional. Fraziers style played straight into George's hands. Frazier had the high left hook, and the right to the body..... george threw everything and anything and threw it about as technically incorrect as a professional fighter can. The skill displayed by Frazier throwing one left hook is greater then the collective skill displayed by George's entire punching arsenal. Frazier threw accurate, well-timed punches with correct form... Foreman did not, Foremans strength was such that he punched harder, again not because of skill. Wrap your head around this very simple concept.

And about Foreman, in his early career... how many fights went the distance and how many of these fights were against top notch opposition. Fighting against cans isn't nearly as tiring as fighting against a top notch opponent offering strong resistance.

George was not skilled, but what he did have was huge natural gifts that easily offset this lack of skill thus he was sucessful in the ring.

Ill-prepared Ali? Ali had just beaten the number one contender Quarry as well as another contender Bonavena. He had 3 training camps, and various exhibitions. He was prepared, and put on a great performance even though he lost.

How did Foreman do against Ali? Oh yeah, he lost every round and barely landed a clean head shot all night.

Ali was not as prepared as he should of been for the Frazier fight. This is not an exscuse but a criticism. He had two tuneup fights, one that was relatively brief due to cuts. For Frazier he should of had more tuneup fights and trained alot harder then he did, Frazier was much better prepared had trained his ass off and as a result was the better man on the night.

Ali was not as prepared as he should of been for the Frazier fight. This is not an exscuse but a criticism. He had two tuneup fights, one that was relatively brief due to cuts. For Frazier he should of had more tuneup fights and trained alot harder then he did, Frazier was much better prepared had trained his ass off and as a result was the better man on the night.

NO.

Doesn't matter how much Ali trained for Frazier. No way was he gonna beat him the first time after such a lay off.

I said Ali wasn't prepared properly, i never said he would win... If ali went in there as Joe Frazier did, as mentally and physically prepared as a figher could be and fought the best fight of his career as Joe did well then im certain he would win. However, if he merely prepared sufficently he probably would not win... the first fight was a wakeup call, he never expected it, he learned his lessons and applied them in the rematches. I believe the loss in the first Frazier fight was required for his sucess following this, same applies with Louis and schmeling.

You can't take anything away from Frazier that night.

You can't take anything away from Frazier that night.

no, you can't. joe deserves alot of credit for beating a close to prime ali, something no other fighter has ever done. but one should know that had ali been at his best, then he would have put up a better effort.

You can't take anything away from Frazier that night.

Im not, Frazier was glorious on that night. He won what is often considered the most significant boxing match of all time and deserves his place among the greats because of it. What im saying is if Ali was as mentally prepared and physically prepared as one can be and fought the fight of his life as did Joe i believe he would beat a 71 Frazier. However, it was impossible for Ali to have the mental preperation neccesary to defeat Frazier on that night as that loss was the learning curve required for him to come back and defeat him in the later fights. No longer would he underestimate Joe.