When you talk about boxing you're obviously talking about an art that takes years to perfect. The top fighters of the boxing world are scientists in the ring who grew up with a pair of gloves on perfecting what they do.

When you talk about MMA you're talking about mostly beer drinkers from off the streets who get a few tattoos, do a few months of training and then go out there and fight other "athletes" in whats basicly a glorified street fight. I understand the appeal of that and how it can have a following given todays culture, but do you consider it a legitimate sport?

I mean, Brock Lesnar from the WWE came to the UFC and won their HW title after only 3 fights. Doesn't that kind've speak for itself?

mma fighters are not good fighters,they are mostly beer drinking lugs,a boxer would beat a mma lug any day,the only good fighters they have are the wwe wrestlers,i give the wrestlers credit they have amazing power and they have good submission holds,a some pro wrestlers would in a street fight beat any mma or boxer,lesner,piper,austin,cowboy bob orton,kininski,kowalski,flair,orndoff,muraco,the big show,andre the giant,jake roberts,these are just some of the wrestlers that would throw a mma or boxer head first out of a ring via the top rope:boxing:

Brock wasn't born in the WWE. He has solid wrestling credentials outside of pro wrestling.

it's called mixed Martial Arts because people come into it with different backgrounds in martial arts and combat sports. like Vitalis background is kickboxing and now he's a boxer. Brocks background is wrestling. the fact that he's ufc champ after so few fights says more about the ufc organization than it does about the sport of mma.

the beer drinkers with a few months training are really bottom rung guys. but you get them in boxing too. obviously at the moment there are still many more boxers in the world than professional MMAers, so with a smaller talent pool you are more likel to end up seeing some of the poor quality fighter in mma than in boxing. but that's because it's a young sport in it's current form. not because it's not a sport.

PS

I love boxing, and i really dont understand why people come to this forum to talk this crap.

although looking at your sig and profile pic gives a clue. cos i'll admit floyd does actually make everyone in every sport look bad.

When you talk about boxing you're obviously talking about an art that takes years to perfect. The top fighters of the boxing world are scientists in the ring who grew up with a pair of gloves on perfecting what they do.

When you talk about MMA you're talking about mostly beer drinkers from off the streets who get a few tattoos, do a few months of training and then go out there and fight other "athletes" in whats basicly a glorified street fight. I understand the appeal of that and how it can have a following given todays culture, but do you consider it a legitimate sport?

I mean, Brock Lesnar from the WWE came to the UFC and won their HW title after only 3 fights. Doesn't that kind've speak for itself?

mma fighters are not good fighters,they are mostly beer drinking lugs,a boxer would beat a mma lug any day,the only good fighters they have are the wwe wrestlers,i give the wrestlers credit they have amazing power and they have good submission holds,a some pro wrestlers would in a street fight beat any mma or boxer,lesner,piper,austin,cowboy bob orton,kininski,kowalski,flair,orndoff,muraco,the big show,andre the giant,jake roberts,these are just some of the wrestlers that would throw a mma or boxer head first out of a ring via the top rope:boxing:


you cant be serious.
you realize you are just wasting space in the mma section. stick to nsb. tks

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd298/Harmsdoug/008_fg.gif

When you talk about boxing you're obviously talking about an art that takes years to perfect. The top fighters of the boxing world are scientists in the ring who grew up with a pair of gloves on perfecting what they do.

When you talk about MMA you're talking about mostly beer drinkers from off the streets who get a few tattoos, do a few months of training and then go out there and fight other "athletes" in whats basicly a glorified street fight. I understand the appeal of that and how it can have a following given todays culture, but do you consider it a legitimate sport?

I mean, Brock Lesnar from the WWE came to the UFC and won their HW title after only 3 fights. Doesn't that kind've speak for itself?

maybe you should check out Brock's wrestling background (not wwe wrestling).

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd298/Harmsdoug/008_fg.gif

that about sums it up.

Brock wasn't born in the WWE. He has solid wrestling credentials outside of pro wrestling.

it's called mixed Martial Arts because people come into it with different backgrounds in martial arts and combat sports. like Vitalis background is kickboxing and now he's a boxer. Brocks background is wrestling. the fact that he's ufc champ after so few fights says more about the ufc organization than it does about the sport of mma.

the beer drinkers with a few months training are really bottom rung guys. but you get them in boxing too. obviously at the moment there are still many more boxers in the world than professional MMAers, so with a smaller talent pool you are more likel to end up seeing some of the poor quality fighter in mma than in boxing. but that's because it's a young sport in it's current form. not because it's not a sport.

PS

I love boxing, and i really dont understand why people come to this forum to talk this crap.

although looking at your sig and profile pic gives a clue. cos i'll admit floyd does actually make everyone in every sport look bad.

I'm not gonna trash you for being an MMA fan, but i'll just say this. You're not gonna see The Undertaker coming to boxing and winning the HW title anytime soon.

maybe you should check out Brock's wrestling background (not wwe wrestling).

You say that like that's the reason he's successful in the UFC, but 3 of his 4 victory's were won by his striking (not wrestling) after only training in MMA for about a year. That kind've speaks for itself.

You say that like that's the reason he's successful in the UFC, but 3 of his 4 victory's were won by his striking (not wrestling) after only training in MMA for about a year. That kind've speaks for itself.

true. but the people he's beaten are not guys from a striking background either. i think it's a bit extreme to say that it's not a sport. but the average level of stand up ability has a long long way to go.

I'm not gonna trash you for being an MMA fan, but i'll just say this. You're not gonna see The Undertaker coming to boxing and winning the HW title anytime soon.

what you need to understand is that strong wrestling skills (brock lesnar, all american/ncaa champion) plays a huge part in mma. look at how well matt hughes did in the ufc because of how good of a wrestler he is. now he is washed up. but the point is that wrestling is dominant in mma. look at anderson silva, his standup skill for a mixed martial artist are great, so he does well in this sport. look at randy couture, again a great wrestler and back in the day(a few years ago) his wrestling skills and ground and pound were a way in which he won the title several times. look at royce gracie, back in the day his brazilian jiu jitsu dominated everyone, even some wrestlers.

understand this, boxing is boxing and thats it. mma is mma and uses several different fighting styles to win a match. so someone can be great in one area and win. its simple to understand.

but your right, the undertaker isnt gonna go into boxing and win the title ever.

duplicate post. my bad.

UFC's HW division is weak and Brocks not the no.1 HW in the world but he's a solid wrestler with good credentials. Your comments about the undertaker, beer drinkers and glorified street fights are just sad really. Its what every mma hater is doing to make themselves feel better about boxings decline. I love boxing and have done since i was 6 but MMA is the future

UFC's HW division is weak and Brocks not the no.1 HW in the world but he's a solid wrestler with good credentials. Your comments about the undertaker, beer drinkers and glorified street fights are just sad really. Its what every mma hater is doing to make themselves feel better about boxings decline. I love boxing and have done since i was 6 but MMA is the future

great post
and the bold, ive been saying that and thinking it for a while. some boxing posters love to come into the mma forum and bash it, which is sad but yes it probably makes them feel better.

I'm not gonna trash you for being an MMA fan, but i'll just say this. You're not gonna see The Undertaker coming to boxing and winning the HW title anytime soon.

No, but we already did see a former MMA fighter become a European champ and currently climbing the WBA ranks. (Alexander Ustinov)

And yes, MMA is a sport whether you like it or not. If you think its only a bunch of beer wannabes from the street then you obviously don't know what you're talking about, many of their fighters come from real combat sport background including boxing, guys like Kimbo Slice were just a dime a dozen and he's considered a joke among the MMA community. Guys like Lyoto Machida, GSP and Anderson Silva have been training combat sports since a very young age.

Also check out MMA promotions in other parts of the world, Japan, Canada and even China. The crowd isn't as loud or obnoxious as the UFC crowd.

great post
and the bold, ive been saying that and thinking it for a while. some boxing posters love to come into the mma forum and bash it, which is sad but yes it probably makes them feel better.

Yeah they think their stupid comments piss us off but the only way it would piss me off is if boxing was taking over mma but obviously its the opposite. Thats the reason a simple mma comment pisses boxing fans/mma haters off, coz they know boxing only has a few stars left and is quickly becoming 2nd to the ufc so they make their dumbass beer drinker or bar fights comment to try convince themselves otherwise

No, but we already did see a former MMA fighter become a European champ and currently climbing the WBA ranks. (Alexander Ustinov)

And yes, MMA is a sport whether you like it or not. If you think its only a bunch of beer wannabes from the street then you obviously don't know what you're talking about, many of their fighters come from real combat sport background including boxing, guys like Kimbo Slice were just a dime a dozen and he's considered a joke among the MMA community. Guys like Lyoto Machida, GSP and Anderson Silva have been training combat sports since a very young age.

Also check out MMA promotions in other parts of the world, Japan, Canada and even China. The crowd isn't as loud or obnoxious as the UFC crowd.

beautifully put.

No, but we already did see a former MMA fighter become a European champ and currently climbing the WBA ranks. (Alexander Ustinov)

And yes, MMA is a sport whether you like it or not. If you think its only a bunch of beer wannabes from the street then you obviously don't know what you're talking about, many of their fighters come from real combat sport background including boxing, guys like Kimbo Slice were just a dime a dozen and he's considered a joke among the MMA community. Guys like Lyoto Machida, GSP and Anderson Silva have been training combat sports since a very young age.

Also check out MMA promotions in other parts of the world, Japan, Canada and even China. The crowd isn't as loud or obnoxious as the UFC crowd.

So we're just gonna act like Chuck Liddell (the most dominating fighter in UFC history) isnt a drug addict who in his prime could be seen at night clubs getting his drink on literally days before he fought?

And yes, i'm well aware of Pride, Strikeforce, Sengoku and all the other top MMA orgs out there like Dream who will set up "superfights" between an 8 foot tall Korean kickboxer and Jose Canceco in whats supposed to be a respectable tournament featuring some of the best fighters in the sport.

You're not gonna see Floyd Mayweather fighting in the same tournament as Ken Griffey Jr. That's what seperates the 2 of them, boxing is an art while MMA if a spectacle much like the WWE only the outcome isnt predetermined (most of the time).

And yes, i'm well aware of Pride, Strikeforce, Sengoku and all the other top MMA orgs out there like Dream who will set up "superfights" between an 8 foot tall Korean kickboxer and Jose Canceco in whats supposed to be a respectable tournament featuring some of the best fighters in the sport.


Choi is a Ssirum wrestler. He picked up a bit of kickboxing.

And the Superhulk tournament was rushed before the actual Welterweight tournament. Everyone watched for the welterweights. Tanegawa formed the SuperHulk as a ratings grab. No matter who wins, no one gives a ****. Even in Japan.

And using Tanegawa is like me using Gary Shaw.

Well, I train at an MMA gym at the moment, and I have to say, I know a few pretty good MMA fighters with great records, but have only been doing MMA for 2-3 years. Thing is, it seems MMA's fighters take a few years to reach the top, where as boxing takes many years.

Choi is a Ssirum wrestler. He picked up a bit of kickboxing.

And the Superhulk tournament was rushed before the actual Welterweight tournament. Everyone watched for the welterweights. Tanegawa formed the SuperHulk as a ratings grab. No matter who wins, no one gives a ****. Even in Japan.

And using Tanegawa is like me using Gary Shaw.

Gegard Mousasi, Babalu, and Sokoudjou are 3 top level fighters in the MMA world (Mousasi actually being in most official top 5 PFP rankings) and they competed in an 8 man tournament that also featured Jose ****ing Canceco.

Do i really need to go any further or does that pretty much sum up the point i'm trying to get across?

I dont consider MMA a sport, its dumb fun, like WWE, but dont pass this rolling around on the floor cuddling as "sport"

Wow mma haters are even more dumb than i thought. Infern0, you may bash the sport all you want but truth is mma has taken over boxing as the biggest combat sport. And quite easily too

Gegard Mousasi, Babalu, and Sokoudjou are 3 top level fighters in the MMA world (Mousasi actually being in most official top 5 PFP rankings) and they competed in an 8 man tournament that also featured Jose ****ing Canceco.

Do i really need to go any further or does that pretty much sum up the point i'm trying to get across?

Tanegawa rigged it for Mousasi to win. He's also a ****ed up pro-wrestling nut.

And Babalu was in no way part of the SuperHulk.

Wow mma haters are even more dumb than i thought. Infern0, you may bash the sport all you want but truth is mma has taken over boxing as the biggest combat sport. And quite easily too


You kidding right?

Dianna White was going on for months about how ufc was gonna crush mayweather/marquez and where is she now? Hiding thats where because she knows she got served and will look like the ***** she is.

You kidding right?

Dianna White was going on for months about how ufc was gonna crush mayweather/marquez and where is she now? Hiding thats where because she knows she got served and will look like the ***** she is.

Oh ill admit Dana is an idiot, thats him promoting his show. But Mayweather selling more than ufc 103 means nothing. 103 was a weak enough card with no big name headlining. Can you imagine a Mayweather fight going up against Lesnar or another top ufc draw? There is no way a Mayweather fight would win that lol

I consider it a sport. It takes a lot of athletic ability to compete at the professional level. You have to have good strength, speed, cardio, balance, flexibility, timing and fighting intelligence if you want to perform at an elite level. These are all essential attributes those involved in a sport need. So yeah, MMA is a sport. Not just anybody can come off the street and compete. Brock Lesnar is not just some chump from the WWE. He is a highly-decorated amateur wrestler and NCAA national champion, who also happens to be incredibly strong and quite fast for a man of his size. You don’t think that qualifies him as an athlete? Georges St. Pierre has trained in martial arts his whole life, and has excelled at wrestling and jiu jitsu over the last few years, out-wrestling the likes of Josh Koscheck and Matt Hughes (national wrestling champions, mind you) Is that not athletic ability?

You talk about beer guzzling, tattoo-covered slobs coming off the streets after a few months of training and fighting. Doesn’t that happen in boxing too? I’ve been to plenty of amateur boxing bouts filled with the same beer guzzling, tattoo-covered slobs who think they can box after a few months of training.

I consider it a sport just like i consider ultimate Frisbee a sport you know its the place for those of us that dont feel like training hard enough to be a boxer or foot ball player

I consider it a sport just like i consider ultimate Frisbee a sport you know its the place for those of us that dont feel like training hard enough to be a boxer or foot ball player

Yeah coz training one discipline is much harder...idiot lol

its much more difficult to master one style then to be mediocre in a few.

it is surely a sport, but the queestion is, is it legal?

but thats not even what im talking about i see these hard core 5 min training vids of gsp and what not. at the end their like and he'll do that 6 more times today and thats great and all but after that does he climb a moutain and toss rocks over his head or jogg 6 miles and wheres the sparing? or how about when the trainer is like normally hell do 10 reps with 100 pounds but here we only have him doing 3 at 80lbs....why the f**k dont you just show me him doing what you say he normally does and why does he look so tired after doing barely 1/4 of his normal lift if it really is what he normally does?

they over exaggerate on what they do for training and most of them have a half a**ed attitude twords training.

Its much harder to combine numerous techniques and sports into one great sport and become a top athlete in mma than to focus on one sport though. MMA is young and most mma-ists came from one discipline but kids growing up now are training strictly mma and they'll get better and better. In ten years you wont even be able to make a point for mma vs boxing, mma will dominate

but thats not even what im talking about i see these hard core 5 min training vids of gsp and what not. at the end their like and he'll do that 6 more times today and thats great and all but after that does he climb a moutain and toss rocks over his head or jogg 6 miles and wheres the sparing? or how about when the trainer is like normally hell do 10 reps with 100 pounds but here we only have him doing 3 at 80lbs....why the f**k dont you just show me him doing what you say he normally does and why does he look so tired after doing barely 1/4 of his normal lift if it really is what he normally does?

they over exaggerate on what they do for training and most of them have a half a**ed attitude twords training.

There not gonna show every detail, there not ****in documentarys, its just a bit of insight into what they do. Tito Ortiz has put up tons of vids of him sparring with Freddie and weight training and such, doesnt mean he doesnt jog or anything. He just realises thats boring video and just tells us we do. Your saying they have a half assed attitude toward training? whats your reason? coz every second of their training isnt documented on tape?

it is surely a sport, but the queestion is, is it legal?

Many rules had been installed through the years to make it safer and more "prime time friendly".

fact is every second is documented on tape and they just want you to think its not by telling you so.

Lol yeah and boxings not corrupted

guess its not really fact or anything i can prove though i dont really have to. if anything it would be something that would have to be disproven. how about you post some training routines where they run 30+ miles a week does any one here do that?

i go to a gym that has mma class and for some reason after class no one is ever jogging their all out lifting weights and stuff though when ever i ask them if they jog of course they run at least 5 miles a day. could be but i think their lying.

but any ways,

yeah seriously though did you see the 24/7 mayweather marquez thing where they had to leave and couldnt film while mayweather was sparring. they come back in and theres that guy just covered with blood and mayweather has all this blood on his gloves. That looked horribly fake.

Im not saying everyone does, that'd be naive. But i do believe the top mma fighters in the world take their training very seriously and do all previously mentioned things. But yeah May likes to go overboard a bit, i wouldn't take that seriously for a second. I respect him and all and he IS no doubt the best in the world but ffs take a proper fight and stfu

i used to actually watch the extra footage on ufc dvds a few years back. plenty of footage of guys going for runs, running while pulling a guy on a bike up hill, running at altitude etc. so what if they dont throw rocks on mountains and drink they're own piss. BJ Penn runs under water with rocks, but who cares.

sport specific circuit and interval training seems to be favoured over long runs, but that's probably more effective anyway, considering the demands on your body during an mma fight, which are often more physically intense but shorter than 10 or 12 round boxing fights. the training is taylored to the sport. doesn't meaqn that it's not a sport, or that the fighters are lazy. most of the top guys work with boxing trainers anyway.

guess its not really fact or anything i can prove though i dont really have to. if anything it would be something that would have to be disproven. how about you post some training routines where they run 30+ miles a week does any one here do that?

i go to a gym that has mma class and for some reason after class no one is ever jogging their all out lifting weights and stuff though when ever i ask them if they jog of course they run at least 5 miles a day. could be but i think their lying.

but any ways,

yeah seriously though did you see the 24/7 mayweather marquez thing where they had to leave and couldnt film while mayweather was sparring. they come back in and theres that guy just covered with blood and mayweather has all this blood on his gloves. That looked horribly fake.

hsha, yeah. that was ridiculous!

funny that he never has a game plan, but you cant watch him sparring!

If TKD and fencing are sports, i don't see why MMA is not.

mma fighters are not good fighters,they are mostly beer drinking lugs,a boxer would beat a mma lug any day,the only good fighters they have are the wwe wrestlers,i give the wrestlers credit they have amazing power and they have good submission holds,a some pro wrestlers would in a street fight beat any mma or boxer,lesner,piper,austin,cowboy bob orton,kininski,kowalski,flair,orndoff,muraco,the big show,andre the giant,jake roberts,these are just some of the wrestlers that would throw a mma or boxer head first out of a ring via the top rope:boxing:



Look at the heavyweight division in boxing, bunch of fat out of shape fighters......

No, MMA is definitely not a sport. Golf and NASCAR are both sports though.

but thats not even what im talking about i see these hard core 5 min training vids of gsp and what not. at the end their like and he'll do that 6 more times today and thats great and all but after that does he climb a moutain and toss rocks over his head or jogg 6 miles and wheres the sparing? or how about when the trainer is like normally hell do 10 reps with 100 pounds but here we only have him doing 3 at 80lbs....why the f**k dont you just show me him doing what you say he normally does and why does he look so tired after doing barely 1/4 of his normal lift if it really is what he normally does?

they over exaggerate on what they do for training and most of them have a half a**ed attitude twords training.

How do you know everything that any of them do? We only see little parts of their training regimens . Are you telling me you want to watch long 6 hour videos of their workouts to make sure they are jogging for at least 5-6 miles a day and doing eleventy billion sit ups each morning? Please. You don't see everything boxers do either. Your arguments are fabricated.

How do you know everything that any of them do? We only see little parts of their training regimens . Are you telling me you want to watch long 6 hour videos of their workouts to make sure they are jogging for at least 5-6 miles a day and doing eleventy billion sit ups each morning? Please. You don't see everything boxers do either. Your arguments are fabricated.

my arguments are ment to appear to be fabricated so that people go out and actually try to prove me wrong though it seems no one has yet.

as i said before

how about you post some training routines where they run 30+ miles a week? does any one here do that?

heres some work out stuff from gsp...dosnt mention running or jogging once

http://www.askmen.com/sports/bodybuilding_200/212_fitness_tip.html

I dont consider MMA a sport, its dumb fun, like WWE, but dont pass this rolling around on the floor cuddling as "sport"

I guess that means you don't consider Olympic wrestling or Judo as sports. I thought you were smarter than that.

I guess that means you don't consider Olympic wrestling or Judo as sports. I thought you were smarter than that.

i would consider judo vs judo or wrestling vs wrestling a sport but when you take judo vs wrestling you just get rolling around on the ground. and isnt judo throwing i dont think it really has anything to do with rolling around on the ground?

So we're just gonna act like Chuck Liddell (the most dominating fighter in UFC history) isnt a drug addict who in his prime could be seen at night clubs getting his drink on literally days before he fought?

.

Emm... Didn't big name boxers do the same in their prime? It should be a given that big name fighters/celebrities or whatever tend to party too much at the peak of the careers.

i would consider judo vs judo or wrestling vs wrestling a sport but when you take judo vs wrestling you just get rolling around on the ground. and isnt judo throwing i dont think it really has anything to do with rolling around on the ground?

you should look up on the net about judo...

i hear greb would oftenly bee late to the ring whilst enjoying the company of women and the great john l was one hell of an alcoholic. though rocky marciano was one of the cleanest people to have lived as far as that stuffs concerned.

my arguments are ment to appear to be fabricated so that people go out and actually try to prove me wrong though it seems no one has yet.

as i said before

how about you post some training routines where they run 30+ miles a week? does any one here do that?

heres some work out stuff from gsp...dosnt mention running or jogging once

http://www.askmen.com/sports/bodybuilding_200/212_fitness_tip.html

Did u want gsp specifically? Coz im not a gsp fan so i havent watched much of his training vids.
Heres one of sherk though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HEUdLbz1i4&feature=fvst

did guess they have to do something when the throw them to the ground

none the less the previous statement about judo vs judo and wrestling vs wrestling still stands

Did u want gsp specifically? Coz im not a gsp fan so i havent watched much of his training vids.
Heres one of sherk though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HEUdLbz1i4&feature=fvst

looks like a good work out but my point is that if he was a boxer at 5 in the morning he would have ran 4-6 miles i mean if he wanted to be a good boxer.

what i really think is humerious is that fact that they think because they restrict their oxyegen then only need 5 mins of cardio...though i guess he did some other stuff running at 6 mph at 50% incline is pretty hard. more so what i found funny was when watching a video on wand a while ago and his restricted breathing training. i think one of the trainers said something like since we do this he only needs to train for 30 mins a day.....then he goes and loses to franklin.

what i was looking for wasnt a video i just wanted a simple list of what the guys do and some where on that list is running long distances or jogging long distances ie for more then 5 mins at a time.

looks like a good work out but my point is that if he was a boxer at 5 in the morning he would have ran 4-6 miles i mean if he wanted to be a good boxer.

what i really think is humerious is that fact that they think because they restrict their oxyegen then only need 5 mins of cardio...though i guess he did some other stuff running at 6 mph at 50% incline is pretty hard. more so what i found funny was when watching a video on wand a while ago and his restricted breathing training. i think one of the trainers said something like since we do this he only needs to train for 30 mins a day.....then he goes and loses to franklin.

what i was looking for wasnt a video i just wanted a simple list of what the guys do and some where on that list is running long distances or jogging long distances ie for more then 5 mins at a time.

Ah well i dont know where to go about finding that but sure could always have a look. I've heard Tito in videos say he plans to start slow in his comeback by doing 2-3 mile runs in the morning and eventually when he's back in shape he'll start to do 5 mile runs or more each morning

so we have one mma guy thats planning to start jogging.

where as ali used to run about 7 miles a day, joe calzaghe runs 5 or 6, i hear marciano would get up to 20 before fights, jeffries would do 14 miles, i think tyson ran 5 in the mornings joe louis would go for long runs where he would pick up small stones with out stopping to strengthen his back, dempsy would run wheil holding a stick because it forces you to twist your entire body instead of just swinging your arms.

no wait theres 2 mma guys cuz i know bruce lee used to run 7 miles a day

i would consider judo vs judo or wrestling vs wrestling a sport but when you take judo vs wrestling you just get rolling around on the ground. and isnt judo throwing i dont think it really has anything to do with rolling around on the ground?

I myself went from HS wrestling to judo and basically breezed through everyone I faced in competition, with the single exception of a guy I faced just once at the state championships and who beat me out for 1st.

As for the second part, I'll defer to Pecs' response above.

I was saying that the Tito one is probably the only one i could find saying his training regime without looking too hard. I know mma fighters go for runs and jogs but im not gonna run around finding proof lol.
If just naming them counts for u then: The docu on Cro Cop showed him running something like 6 miles a day. Kid Yamamoto started every morning with 3 mile runs and thena few more on the treadmill. Joachim Hansen highlights show him goin for runs every morning. Just a few off the top of my head. MMA is a young sport though and its hard to find instances where people give their whole regime, your going back decades. Im sure as mma grows the training the fighters do will become more common knowledge

Id say its a step up from WWE (pure entertainment) and a step down from boxing (pure sport)

Id say its a step up from WWE (pure entertainment) and a step down from boxing (pure sport)

Mayweathers antics are closer to WWE than anything in mma

Damn, MMA just took another blow to it's credibility. With Rampage retiring, BJ Penn is the only semi-decent boxer left in the sport.

Mayweathers antics are closer to WWE than anything in mma

I didn't realize talking trash before he goes into the ring and backs up everything he says is on the same level as the WWE. In that case Muhammad Ali must be an entertainer and not an athlete as well.

I didn't realize talking trash before he goes into the ring and backs up everything he says is on the same level as the WWE. In that case Muhammad Ali must be an entertainer and not an athlete as well.

Im just responding to someone sayin mma is just a step up from wwe. I have nothing against what mayweather does to promote his fights but im right in sayin the way he behaves is closer to wwe than anything in mma

i don't know about mma but the ufc to me is more like the wwe it is sports entertainment not a sport like boxing,soccer,football or basketball

i don't know about mma but the ufc to me is more like the wwe it is sports entertainment not a sport like boxing,soccer,football or basketball

The fact that you don't know that the UFC is an organisation in MMA means your opinion is worth nothing

i don't know about mma but the ufc to me is more like the wwe it is sports entertainment not a sport like boxing,soccer,football or basketball

u for real? ur sayin mixed martial arts training and fighting/ufc is not a sport? ufc is nothing like the wwe. first of all the wwe is fake and completely made up. the ufc is not. boxing and the ufc are pretty similar in that the idea is to knock out or submit our opponent to win. so why wouldnt you consider ufc the same as you consider boxing?

never compare wwe and ufc.....they are totally 100% different. wwe is purely for entertainment.

Damn, MMA just took another blow to it's credibility. With Rampage retiring, BJ Penn is the only semi-decent boxer left in the sport.

rampage will be missed, however his standup wasnt at the level of guys like anderson silva, machida ect..

yeah, it sucks the ufc lost one of their key fighters

The fact that you don't know that the UFC is an organisation in MMA means your opinion is worth nothing

first off most people don't know mma fighters unless they are in the ufc and 2nd the reason i said that is because the ufc not mma likes to use people who have a name to sell their product where mma as a whole doesn't do that the ifc used brock lesnars name to sell the ufc within brocks 1st 4 fights he had fought top 5 heavyweights because brock as the ufc champ would really help the ufc just like the ufc is now putting kimbo in commercials because he has a name and has buzz about him, if the ufc could they would get any famous person be it athlete or entertainer to fight in the ufc just to help boost ratings and sells

first off most people don't know mma fighters unless they are in the ufc and 2nd the reason i said that is because the ufc not mma likes to use people who have a name to sell their product where mma as a whole doesn't do that the ifc used brock lesnars name to sell the ufc within brocks 1st 4 fights he had fought top 5 heavyweights because brock as the ufc champ would really help the ufc just like the ufc is now putting kimbo in commercials because he has a name and has buzz about him, if the ufc could they would get any famous person be it athlete or entertainer to fight in the ufc just to help boost ratings and sells

Do u watch Japanese mma? They put the bigger japanese fighters on the top of the bill over no.1 or 2 ranked fighters for bigger ratings. So yeh mma in general uses names to sell the product, not the ufc. Wrong again. And no they wouldn't put celebrities in the cage, its been proposed numerous times and the Fertittas and Dana have laughed at the idea of it. Your pulling this stuff outta your ass man

Do u watch Japanese mma? They put the bigger japanese fighters on the top of the bill over no.1 or 2 ranked fighters for bigger ratings. So yeh mma in general uses names to sell the product, not the ufc. Wrong again. And no they wouldn't put celebrities in the cage, its been proposed numerous times and the Fertittas and Dana have laughed at the idea of it. Your pulling this stuff outta your ass man

so you don't think the ufc would put someone like shaq or micheal strahan in a cage? i do

so you don't think the ufc would put someone like shaq or micheal strahan in a cage? i do

No i dont, if they had previous fights then they would but not in his first fight. Shaq actually has some skills in mma, ive seen vids of him training

so you don't think the ufc would put someone like shaq or micheal strahan in a cage? i do

i doubt it unless they are truly serious about fighting and have been training for a while. they would need to be good in order for the ufc to put them in the cage. the ufc is not going to endanger some celebrity purley for ratings...they wont do that cause they know you can get killed.

Im just responding to someone sayin mma is just a step up from wwe. I have nothing against what mayweather does to promote his fights but im right in sayin the way he behaves is closer to wwe than anything in mma

I think this little episode must've slipped your mind:


http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z24/xanax06/BROCK-1.gif

WOOOOW u got me. Brocks 2 or 3 things compared to Floyds...oh wait no that would take too long to count

I think this little episode must've slipped your mind:


http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z24/xanax06/BROCK-1.gif

yeah, but remember dana ripped him a new ******* for the **** he pulled after the mir fight.

WOOOOW u got me. Brocks 2 or 3 things compared to Floyds...oh wait no that would take too long to count

Have you ever seen Floyd push another fighter while in the stands to create hype for a fight (Tito and Rashad, Rampage and Rashad), fight another boxer after their fight in the ****ing hospital which sounds straight out of a WWE storyline (Nick Diaz and Joe Riggs), lose his temper and try to physically assault another opponent at a press conference (Tito and Ken Shamrock), KO his opponent before the fight after being kissed by him in the staredown (Heath Herring and Nakao Yoshihiro), ****ting his pants in the middle of a fight (Tim Sylvia), losing his temper and KO'ing the referree (Gilbert Yvel), licking the blood of his opponent off his gloves after he wins (BJ Penn and Joe Stevenson, BJ Penn and Matt Hughes), showing up at a UFC event high out of his mind and looking like he's having a ceizure while on camera watching a fight (Chuck Liddell), storming the ring with his entourage and getting into a 20 man fight with the team of an opponent (Wanderlei Silva and Mark Coleman after beating Shogun), taking his opponent down and hitting him with 20 consecutive shots to the testicles (Joe Son and Keith Hackney).

Should i keep going?

Have you ever seen Floyd push another fighter while in the stands to create hype for a fight (Tito and Rashad, Rampage and Rashad), fight another boxer after their fight in the ****ing hospital which sounds straight out of a WWE storyline (Nick Diaz and Joe Riggs), lose his temper and try to physically assault another opponent at a press conference (Tito and Ken Shamrock), KO his opponent before the fight after being kissed by him in the staredown (Heath Herring and Nakao Yoshihiro), ****ting his pants in the middle of a fight (Tim Sylvia), losing his temper and KO'ing the referree (Gilbert Yvel), licking the blood of his opponent off his gloves after he wins (BJ Penn and Joe Stevenson, BJ Penn and Matt Hughes), showing up at a UFC event high out of his mind and looking like he's having a ceizure while on camera watching a fight (Chuck Liddell), storming the ring with his entourage and getting into a 20 man fight with the team of an opponent (Wanderlei Silva and Mark Coleman after beating Shogun), taking his opponent down and hitting him with 20 consecutive shots to the testicles (Joe Son and Keith Hackney).

Should i keep going?



let's flip this argument to boxing now. A promoter (Don King) who has murdered two people, A crack-head Oliver McCall having a meltdown in the ring, A Crazy Mike Tyson bitting off Evander's ears, A douchebag Naseem Hamed who takes a friggin hour to get to the ring, A ****y Nate Campbell who puts his hands down and gets knocked out, A murdering James Butler who also sucker punches people after the bell,fist fights at the press conferences between Barrerra and Morales, a moron who has to have his "awesome" dreadlocks cut off during the fight (Paulie Mallinaggi) and multiple boxers serving time for crimes like rape, drug dealing, assaults and numerous other crimes (Clifford Etienne, Mike Tyson, Bernard Hopkins, Riddick Bowe, Naseem Hamed, Paul Spadofora, Henry Tillman, William Joppy,etc.) A cheating hand-wrapping Antonio Margarito and Tito Trinidad. Let's see, Zab Judah causing a near riot with his low blows, A street fight between Larry Holmes and Trever Berbick, Andrew Golota causing a riot after repeatedly low blowing Riddick Bowe,
Should I keep going?

let's flip this argument to boxing now. A promoter (Don King) who has murdered two people, A crack-head Oliver McCall having a meltdown in the ring, A Crazy Mike Tyson bitting off Evander's ears, A douchebag Naseem Hamed who takes a friggin hour to get to the ring, A ****y Nate Campbell who puts his hands down and gets knocked out, A murdering James Butler who also sucker punches people after the bell,fist fights at the press conferences between Barrerra and Morales, a moron who has to have his "awesome" dreadlocks cut off during the fight (Paulie Mallinaggi) and multiple boxers serving time for crimes like rape, drug dealing, assaults and numerous other crimes (Clifford Etienne, Mike Tyson, Bernard Hopkins, Riddick Bowe, Naseem Hamed, Paul Spadofora, Henry Tillman, William Joppy,etc.) A cheating hand-wrapping Antonio Margarito and Tito Trinidad. Let's see, Zab Judah causing a near riot with his low blows, A street fight between Larry Holmes and Trever Berbick, Andrew Golota causing a riot after repeatedly low blowing Riddick Bowe,
Should I keep going?

We're talking about if Floyd is more comparable with the WWE then MMA. If you can't keep up with the conversation then maybe you should stay out of it.

Have you ever seen Floyd push another fighter while in the stands to create hype for a fight (Tito and Rashad, Rampage and Rashad), fight another boxer after their fight in the ****ing hospital which sounds straight out of a WWE storyline (Nick Diaz and Joe Riggs), lose his temper and try to physically assault another opponent at a press conference (Tito and Ken Shamrock), KO his opponent before the fight after being kissed by him in the staredown (Heath Herring and Nakao Yoshihiro), ****ting his pants in the middle of a fight (Tim Sylvia), losing his temper and KO'ing the referree (Gilbert Yvel), licking the blood of his opponent off his gloves after he wins (BJ Penn and Joe Stevenson, BJ Penn and Matt Hughes), showing up at a UFC event high out of his mind and looking like he's having a ceizure while on camera watching a fight (Chuck Liddell), storming the ring with his entourage and getting into a 20 man fight with the team of an opponent (Wanderlei Silva and Mark Coleman after beating Shogun), taking his opponent down and hitting him with 20 consecutive shots to the testicles (Joe Son and Keith Hackney).

Should i keep going?



When the **** did Chuck look high before a fight, remember the Judah fight, whos corner came in and the punched and choked the living hell out of Judah (should've been a DQ right there). Who goes on a racial tirade while promoting his fight (during Marquez pre-fight hype). Who goes to another country and flips off and taunts the crowd of another fighter wearing the hated teams kit (Hatton and wearing Manchester United kit). Who goes on TV and boasts this wonderful quote: "We got the big-boy mansion. We got Lambos. We got Rolls-Royces, we got a lot of stuff. But guess what the difference is between me and everybody else? My **** is paid for." when in reality he can barely hold on to everything (JP Morgan Chase might disagree, also getting sued by a bank for the unpaid loan his half-million Maybach). Oh, thats just Floyd Mayweather Jr. Floyd is a joke, he often behaves like Fistscuffs, the rapper Dave Chappelle portrayed on his show.

WOW...and here i thought the MMA fans that bashed boxing were bad...wow...just wow the ignorance about MMA in here is pathetic. If MMA was so "easy" EVERYONE WOULD BE DOING IT.

Brock Lesnar was an elite wrestler before walking into MMA and by wrestling, i mean he was an NCAA division 1 champion.

No, you won't see the undertaker walking in and winning a boxing title, but i also guarantee you you wouldn't see him walking in and taking an MMA title either.

yes, it's a lot harder to be great at one art than it is to be mediocore at a lot...but the fact is that that's not the case with many top tier Mixed MArtial Artists....

Fedor, Brock, Nogueira, Velasquez, Carwin, OVereem, MAchida, Shogun, Nogueira, Anderson Silva, Nate MArquart, Belfort, GSP, Alves, Fitch, Penn, Aoki, Hansen, Kawajiri, Faber, Brown, Aldo, Inoue, Ueda, Bolwes, Torres, Kojima, Yamaguchi, Somdet...

You know what all these guys have in common? They're not mediocore at everything...They have spent many many years focusing on one art and creating a base before adding everything else in. Some of them are excellent at one thing and suck at everything else, some are excellent in one thing are are good in the others, some are excellent at everything. This is the difference between the top tier Mixed Martial Artist and some B level fighter. Anyone who thinks that these guys are some bums off the street with a few months training is kidding themselves and knows nothing of the sport.


WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT, MIXED MARTIAL ARTS IS A SPORT. Just like how pullvolting is a sport, just like how golf is a sport, just like how NASCAR is considered a sport...

Also, if you all hate MMA that much, why are you all wasting your time and energy ripping on it? Reminds me of how some gay people ca't accept the fact that they're gay...so they decide to hate on homosexuals...

Brock Lesnar was an elite wrestler before walking into MMA and by wrestling, i mean he was an NCAA division 1 champion.


Brock Lesnar was an elite wrestler 9 years before walking into MMA and by wrestling, i mean he was an NCAA division 1 champion 9 years ago.

WTF else is he supposed to do!!!???!!!

Ben Askren has been a NCAA champ five years ago. Strikeforce is thinking of signing him. We going to ****ing hate on him too?

Sure, if hockey is a sport, why not MMA?

We're talking about if Floyd is more comparable with the WWE then MMA. If you can't keep up with the conversation then maybe you should stay out of it.

Whatever, you can dish it out but you can't take it.

I didn't realize talking trash before he goes into the ring and backs up everything he says is on the same level as the WWE. In that case Muhammad Ali must be an entertainer and not an athlete as well.

That's actually funny you should say that because it's been claimed that Ali's fast mouth was inspired by a famous pro wrestler, I think it was Billy Graham.

Who cares, anyway? As long as people can enjoy watching both Boxing and MMA.

Whatever, you can dish it out but you can't take it.

Can't take it? I just dismantled everyone who disagreed with me's arguements without even trying. If you're gonna come in here and try to be the first poster to get one up on me, at least stay on topic instead of writing out essays about subjects that have nothing to do with anything.

Right:rolleyes:.....

When you talk about boxing you're obviously talking about an art that takes years to perfect. The top fighters of the boxing world are scientists in the ring who grew up with a pair of gloves on perfecting what they do.

Nobody is denying the dedication boxing takes, but to say MMA doesn't require training, ring smarts, athleticism, conditioning and to say what mixed martial artists practice are not "arts" is plain stupid.


When you talk about MMA you're talking about mostly beer drinkers from off the streets who get a few tattoos, do a few months of training and then go out there and fight other "athletes" in whats basicly a glorified street fight. I understand the appeal of that and how it can have a following given todays culture, but do you consider it a legitimate sport?

Where does this moniker come from? Because it makes no sense at all. Please explain to me how a boxer like James Toney is an "athlete"?

It obviously is a legitimate sport given these guys undergo rigorous medical testing, and it is overseen by "Athletic Commissions" yeah it's obviously not a sport. ****ing idiot.

I'm going to say this again like I have every moron that comes in here posting these idiotic redundant threads. If MMA is SOOOOO easy, why aren't you doing it? You could easily make $500-$10,000 a fight.

Yeah shut the **** up.


I mean, Brock Lesnar from the WWE came to the UFC and won their HW title after only 3 fights. Doesn't that kind've speak for itself?

You fail to realize Lesnar was an NCAA Champion and he won the fight over one of the most overrated fighters in the history of the sport.

Hilarious how you can bash Lesnar for being HW champion and disregard his legitimate wrestling background, yet stand behind guys like Nikolai Valuev... a complete oaf and freak of nature who looks like he just climbed out of some prehistoric cave in rural Russia.

Can't take it? I just dismantled everyone who disagreed with me's arguements without even trying. If you're gonna come in here and try to be the first poster to get one up on me, at least stay on topic instead of writing out essays about subjects that have nothing to do with anything.

You didn't own or dismantle anybody. The only people who are supporting your arguments are elitist boxing fans like yourself who are either just hating or don't understand Mixed Martial Arts and are content on bashing it.

i'm definitely in the 'mma is a sport' camp. but the most recent fight in TUF is the best argument against this.

really bad advert for the sport, having guys run out of gas so quickly. both looking sloppy on he ground, and one sloppy on the feet too. with the perception that these are guys being genuinely considered for the UFC.

The fact that this thread has made it to page 9 speaks of the quality of the retards that post here.

*leaves*

i'm definitely in the 'mma is a sport' camp. but the most recent fight in TUF is the best argument against this.

really bad advert for the sport, having guys run out of gas so quickly. both looking sloppy on he ground, and one sloppy on the feet too. with the perception that these are guys being genuinely considered for the UFC.

This season of TUF is off to a horrible start and I sense there are going to be more ****ty fights like the last two.

But most HW aren't always in the best condition.

Not really being considered the weak links are being rooted out. That's what the purpose of the show is. However most of these guy transitioned from football and if that isn't a testament to how MMA is not a sport given how much these guys are struggling, I don't know what is.

Brock Lesnar was an elite wrestler 9 years before walking into MMA and by wrestling, i mean he was an NCAA division 1 champion 9 years ago.
yep, 9 years ago. And as he's shown in MMA, he's still every bit the athlete and wrestler he was then.

Can't take it? I just dismantled everyone who disagreed with me's arguements without even trying. If you're gonna come in here and try to be the first poster to get one up on me, at least stay on topic instead of writing out essays about subjects that have nothing to do with anything.

Right...the orignal topic of this thread is "Do you guys Really Consider MMA A Sport?" Aren't you off topic? talking about Floyd compared to WWE and MMA? So you can go off topic when it suits you, but when anybody else makes a point, you just make some lame excuse because you can't come up with a logical counter argument. Give me a break...And by the way, plenty of other people already have gotten one up on you. You haven't dismantled anyone.

Where does this moniker come from? Because it makes no sense at all. Please explain to me how a boxer like James Toney is an "athlete"?

It obviously is a legitimate sport given these guys undergo rigorous medical testing, and it is overseen by "Athletic Commissions" yeah it's obviously not a sport. ****ing idiot.

see what you should have done here instead of changing topic and stooping to our level and making fun of boxing you should have debated the quote you took by saying something along the lines of

hey alot of the top competitiors have spent many yeas mastering their sport why you would think all mma guys are beer drinkers that only train for a few months is redicilious obiviously there are some that dont have a long history but they are quickly weeded out.

Hilarious how you can bash Lesnar for being HW champion and disregard his legitimate wrestling background, yet stand behind guys like Nikolai Valuev... a complete oaf and freak of nature who looks like he just climbed out of some prehistoric cave in rural Russia.


where as you disregard valuves 23-0 am record or that fact that hes been boxing professionally since 93 (16 years)

yep, 9 years ago. And as he's shown in MMA, he's still every bit the athlete and wrestler he was then.

good point i guess spending the entirety of middle school high school and college? wrestling would probably be close to that of some one who has mastered any other martial art.

good point i guess spending the entirety of middle school high school and college? wrestling would probably be close to that of some one who has mastered any other martial art.

yep, especially when you start off young

Can't take it? I just dismantled everyone who disagreed with me's arguements without even trying. If you're gonna come in here and try to be the first poster to get one up on me, at least stay on topic instead of writing out essays about subjects that have nothing to do with anything.

what are you talking about???? i quoted you 3 or 4 times with a reasonable arguement and you didnt say **** back???

come on dude your wasted your time in here

The fact that this thread has made it to page 9 speaks of the quality of the retards that post here.

*leaves*

oh boy, i wonder how many times you have viewed this thread already. cause i think this is the second time you have posted something obnoxious.

let's flip this argument to boxing now. A promoter (Don King) who has murdered two people, A crack-head Oliver McCall having a meltdown in the ring, A Crazy Mike Tyson bitting off Evander's ears, A douchebag Naseem Hamed who takes a friggin hour to get to the ring, A ****y Nate Campbell who puts his hands down and gets knocked out, A murdering James Butler who also sucker punches people after the bell,fist fights at the press conferences between Barrerra and Morales, a moron who has to have his "awesome" dreadlocks cut off during the fight (Paulie Mallinaggi) and multiple boxers serving time for crimes like rape, drug dealing, assaults and numerous other crimes (Clifford Etienne, Mike Tyson, Bernard Hopkins, Riddick Bowe, Naseem Hamed, Paul Spadofora, Henry Tillman, William Joppy,etc.) A cheating hand-wrapping Antonio Margarito and Tito Trinidad. Let's see, Zab Judah causing a near riot with his low blows, A street fight between Larry Holmes and Trever Berbick, Andrew Golota causing a riot after repeatedly low blowing Riddick Bowe,
Should I keep going?

Right...the orignal topic of this thread is "Do you guys Really Consider MMA A Sport?" Aren't you off topic? talking about Floyd compared to WWE and MMA? So you can go off topic when it suits you, but when anybody else makes a point, you just make some lame excuse because you can't come up with a logical counter argument. Give me a break...And by the way, plenty of other people already have gotten one up on you. You haven't dismantled anyone.

your totally right.....end of story
good post

Of course I consider it a sport.

Sport - Sport is an activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively. Sports commonly refer to activities where the physical capabilities of the competitor are the sole or primary determinant of the outcome (winning or losing)


The TS's ignorance on the sport does nothing to damage its credibility. If almost every State Athletic Commission in the United States can sanction fights in MMA, then you can bet your sweet ass that it's a real sport.

You kidding right?

Dianna White was going on for months about how ufc was gonna crush mayweather/marquez and where is she now? Hiding thats where because she knows she got served and will look like the ***** she is.

The thing about the big boxing fights doing bigger numbers than UFC cards is that those big boxing PPVs that put up those kind of numbers only happen a few times a year. The UFC consistently puts up high PPV numbers every month, some times even twice a month. Then you have all the UFN events free on ****e getting really good ratings and TUF which is up and down, some seasons it's on par with Friday Night Fights and then others it blows it away.

You also have to take into account that boxing has been around forever and is the king internationally. MMA is big in North America and is still fairly big in Japan (It's in a slump right now.) but everywhere else boxing kills it. MMA is growing in the UK but still a distant second to boxing. Having an established fanbase in so many markets around the world helps bring in lots of revenue for the big boxing cards that MMA can't tap into yet just because it's so new.

All of the boxing fans now are fans because they grew up with it. Well now people are growing up with MMA. It's going to be the dominant combat sport in the future. Boxing will always be around, but it's going to eventually lose the #1 spot probably everywhere except Mexico and Thailand.

The biggest problem boxing has in comparison to MMA is promotion. They do not promote young talent worth a ****. They only put promotion money on the big names. The UFC takes the time to film training segments for guys who are making their main card debut and puts it on their countdown shows to help familiarize people with them. They air their fights on the UFC Unleashed shows, send them around to do interviews with radio stations, etc. etc. You hardly ever get that with boxing anymore because promoters just don't want to spend that money.

Promoters should really be promoting the hell out of the Super Six tournament right now, but they won't and no one but dedicated boxing fans will pay attention to it. While the UFC will have billboards, magazine, radio, and TV ads all over for some random UFN. It's stupid because HBO and Showtime put more ads for True Blood and Dexter on ESPN than they do their boxing cards.

For every "gay MMA fight where they just roll around on the floor" there are just as many "boring pillow fights where the two guys just slap each other a few times then hug until the ref separates them" For every "boring wrestler lay and pray fest" in MMA there's a guy "running around the ring like a ***** all day spending all his time trying not to get hit over trying to land punches of his own." in boxing.

Most people don't give a damn about seeing guys that are just there to win on points. If they want to see athletes competing to score the most points they would watch football,basketball,baseball,hockey,tennis,whateve r. They tune in to combat sports to see guys fight and try to put each other to sleep, and have been put off by too many boxing matches where guys are just there to tap their opponent more times than they have been tapped and coast to a 12 round decision. That type of thing is just winning at a game, not winning a fight.

Jack Dempsey said it best. "The major purpose of fistic instruction has been bypassed by amateur tutors who try to benefit themselves financially, indirectly or directly, by producing punchless performers who can win amateur or professional bouts on points."

In MMA guys are striking to get a knock out and finish fights, not to squeak by on points. Whether that's on the feet or on the ground, overall guys are trying to smash their opponent and get a knockout or a submission. There are very few guys who are just flat out obviously trying to win boring decisions. In boxing there are countless guys who have made their careers on just utilizing the rules of the sport to their advantage and winning by being slicker than their opponent and getting the nod on points.

This is why so many people are gravitating towards MMA over boxing, because they want to see people fight, not play a game involving punches. I like boxing and enjoyed seeing Floyd showcase such sick ass speed and defense against Marquez and just completely school him. But I'm in the minority when it comes to this since most people don't care about that type of thing.

I can see where they are coming from too. To the average person they just don't get it. The only people that really appreciate boxing these days were either just raised on it hardcore growing up or they have boxed themselves and can appreciate the **** they see the greats pull off in their fights since they have more of an inside understanding to how difficult that is and the hard work that goes into it.

MMA, UFC, whatever you want to call the "Mainstream" aspect of it, has only been around 10-12 years. In the next 5-10 years, MMA will surpass boxing when it comes to revenue and fighters making more money, etc. I don't know if you've read this article, but you should.

http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles...you-lost-19810

And look at the North America PPV Buy Rates. Boxing being number one with their two biggest names in boxing, then the UFC destroys the rest of the ratings. Like I said, give MMA 5 more years and it will be the most dominate combat sport.

1. Boxing: Oscar De La Hoya vs. Manny Pacquiao, Dec. 6, 1,250,000

2. UFC: Brock Lesnar vs. Randy Couture, Nov. 15, 1,010,000

3. Wrestling: WrestleMania, Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Paul "Big Show" Wight, March 30, 670,000

4. UFC: Georges St. Pierre vs. Jon Fitch/Lesnar vs. Heath Herring, Aug. 9, 625,000

5. UFC: Lesnar vs. Frank Mir, Feb. 2, 600,000

6. UFC: Quinton Jackson vs. Forrest Griffin, July 5, 540,000

7. UFC: St. Pierre vs. Matt Serra, April 19, 530,000

8. Boxing: Felix Trinidad vs. Roy Jones Jr., Jan. 19, 500,000

9. UFC: Chuck Liddell vs. Rashad Evans, Sept. 6, 480,000

10. UFC: B.J. Penn vs. Sean Sherk/Tito Ortiz vs. Lyoto Machida, May 24, 475,000

Let the haters hate on MMA and have their glory. It's fine for now, but us MMA fans will be laughing a few years from now saying, "I told you so".

I probably shouldn't of typed that last part since I'm a fan of both, just more so an MMA fan.

what are you talking about???? i quoted you 3 or 4 times with a reasonable arguement and you didnt say **** back???

come on dude your wasted your time in here

Do you really expect me to go through the entire thread responding to all 50 of the people who quoted me or went out of their way to get my attention?

I quote the ones who make the best opposing arguements, as you noticed you werent one of them.

Do you really expect me to go through the entire thread responding to all 50 of the people who quoted me or went out of their way to get my attention?

I quote the ones who make the best opposing arguements, as you noticed you werent one of them. :liar:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. President
Have you ever seen Floyd push another fighter while in the stands to create hype for a fight (Tito and Rashad, Rampage and Rashad), fight another boxer after their fight in the ****ing hospital which sounds straight out of a WWE storyline (Nick Diaz and Joe Riggs), lose his temper and try to physically assault another opponent at a press conference (Tito and Ken Shamrock), KO his opponent before the fight after being kissed by him in the staredown (Heath Herring and Nakao Yoshihiro), ****ting his pants in the middle of a fight (Tim Sylvia), losing his temper and KO'ing the referree (Gilbert Yvel), licking the blood of his opponent off his gloves after he wins (BJ Penn and Joe Stevenson, BJ Penn and Matt Hughes), showing up at a UFC event high out of his mind and looking like he's having a ceizure while on camera watching a fight (Chuck Liddell), storming the ring with his entourage and getting into a 20 man fight with the team of an opponent (Wanderlei Silva and Mark Coleman after beating Shogun), taking his opponent down and hitting him with 20 consecutive shots to the testicles (Joe Son and Keith Hackney).

Should i keep going?


When the **** did Chuck look high before a fight, remember the Judah fight, whos corner came in and the punched and choked the living hell out of Judah (should've been a DQ right there). Who goes on a racial tirade while promoting his fight (during Marquez pre-fight hype). Who goes to another country and flips off and taunts the crowd of another fighter wearing the hated teams kit (Hatton and wearing Manchester United kit). Who goes on TV and boasts this wonderful quote: "We got the big-boy mansion. We got Lambos. We got Rolls-Royces, we got a lot of stuff. But guess what the difference is between me and everybody else? My **** is paid for." when in reality he can barely hold on to everything (JP Morgan Chase might disagree, also getting sued by a bank for the unpaid loan his half-million Maybach). Oh, thats just Floyd Mayweather Jr. Floyd is a joke, he often behaves like Fistscuffs, the rapper Dave Chappelle portrayed on his show.

Do you really expect me to go through the entire thread responding to all 50 of the people who quoted me or went out of their way to get my attention?

I quote the ones who make the best opposing arguements, as you noticed you werent one of them.

So you don't have anything to say to my post? Or was it too long for you to read?

Right...the orignal topic of this thread is "Do you guys Really Consider MMA A Sport?" Aren't you off topic? talking about Floyd compared to WWE and MMA? So you can go off topic when it suits you, but when anybody else makes a point, you just make some lame excuse because you can't come up with a logical counter argument. Give me a break...And by the way, plenty of other people already have gotten one up on you. You haven't dismantled anyone.

I'v already destroyed your credibility in this thread and now i'v reduced you to changing the context of my words in a desperate attempt to save face.

Some other dude made the arguement that Floyd was more like WWE then MMA was, so i swiftly shot his arguement down by citing some examples of WWE-esque behavior in MMA that Floyd can't compete with.

Then you come storming in here with your panties in a bunch writing out essays about how boxing is more like WWE thinking you were saying something of importance, when the post of mine that you were quoting had nothing to do with that.

You're basicly digging at the bottom of the barrell to find petty reasons to pick up whatever's left of you and your favorite sports shattered credibility. You made an honest effort, found out quick that you were way out of your league, and now you're sticking around way too long trying to defend yourself in a battle you can't win. Take your loss like a man and move on. There's more dignity in that.

So you don't have anything to say to my post? Or was it too long for you to read?

I guess not.

Do you really expect me to go through the entire thread responding to all 50 of the people who quoted me or went out of their way to get my attention?

I quote the ones who make the best opposing arguements, as you noticed you werent one of them.

i guess you probably noticed, basically everyone has opposed your arguement? doesnt that tell you something?

I'v already destroyed your credibility in this thread and now i'v reduced you to changing the context of my words in a desperate attempt to save face.

Some other dude made the arguement that Floyd was more like WWE then MMA was, so i swiftly shot his arguement down by citing some examples of WWE-esque behavior in MMA that Floyd can't compete with.

Then you come storming in here with your panties in a bunch writing out essays about how boxing is more like WWE thinking you were saying something of importance, when the post of mine that you were quoting had nothing to do with that.

You're basicly digging at the bottom of the barrell to find petty reasons to pick up whatever's left of you and your favorite sports shattered credibility. You made an honest effort, found out quick that you were way out of your league, and now you're sticking around way too long trying to defend yourself in a battle you can't win. Take your loss like a man and move on. There's more dignity in that.


Credibility ? lol! just look at your rep...everybody here knows you're a idiot. If anybody should man up and take a loss it should be you. I never made a comparison to WWE...that was you, genius! You used one boxer, compared to a bunch of MMA guys. So I threw it back in your face...boxers aren't perfect either. And I've already proven my point that mma is a sport. It's funny, a guy who complains about "What should I do, read every post?" complains when someone else doesn't read every post. The fact that it takes you days to respond to my post shows how long you probably labored to come up with your post. And by the way, boxing is my favorite sport, not mma. It just bothers me that people like you can be so narrow-minded.

Having read through some the posts backing Lesnar's legitimacy as an MMA fighter/HW champion due to his college wrestling background.

I say stop! Lesnar's success has to do with that f**kin' size of his moreso than anything else. and the fact that the guys he has fought have no stand up to speak of. Brock doesn't have a single thing to worry about Mir's stand-up , Couture's stand-up, etc..

At the same time, Lesnar is no plodding/heavy footed big guy either. But, man, when you outweigh your opponents by 30-50lbs, how hard is it really.

How hard is it to shoot in w/ no real resistance, stay on top of a guy you f**kin' outweigh by 50lbs. That's the fight, NCAA wrestling background or not.

Having read through some the posts backing Lesnar's legitimacy as an MMA fighter/HW champion due to his college wrestling background.

I say stop! Lesnar's success has to do with that f**kin' size of his moreso than anything else. and the fact that the guys he has fought have no stand up to speak of. Brock doesn't have a single thing to worry about Mir's stand-up , Couture's stand-up, etc..

At the same time, Lesnar is no plodding/heavy footed big guy either. But, man, when you outweigh your opponents by 30-50lbs, how hard is it really.

How hard is it to shoot in w/ no real resistance, stay on top of a guy you f**kin' outweigh by 50lbs. That's the fight, NCAA wrestling background or not.

Yeah, there's no doubt that him being as big as he is plays a big role...but it's also his athleticism and wrestling skills that wins his fights too. Bob Sapp was 300+ pounds of muscle, but wheneve he fought a real legit opponent he got whooped.

What a retarded thread. Brock was training mma years before he ever made it to the UFC. Plus he had years of experience as a wrestler before that. What mma world champion has ever won a title with a few months of training?

What a retarded thread. Brock was training mma years before he ever made it to the UFC. Plus he had years of experience as a wrestler before that. What mma world champion has ever won a title with a few months of training?

Actually he was training for about a year before entering the UFC and destroying all their top competition and claiming their HW title. Far less time then it would take to get to the top of any real sport.

Credibility ? lol! just look at your rep...everybody here knows you're a idiot. If anybody should man up and take a loss it should be you. I never made a comparison to WWE...that was you, genius! You used one boxer, compared to a bunch of MMA guys. So I threw it back in your face...boxers aren't perfect either. And I've already proven my point that mma is a sport. It's funny, a guy who complains about "What should I do, read every post?" complains when someone else doesn't read every post. The fact that it takes you days to respond to my post shows how long you probably labored to come up with your post. And by the way, boxing is my favorite sport, not mma. It just bothers me that people like you can be so narrow-minded.

Whenever you have a groundbreaker who's ahead of the curve and speaks what everyone else is afraid to say there's gonna be haters trying to throw rocks at his thrown.

You know as well as i do that i posted circles around you in this thread and completely dismantled your credibility as a combat sports fan, and thats all the motivation i need to keep speaking facts in a thread full of liars. If i can enlighten a few mislead posters for every thread i start then i'v done my job.

What a freaking troll, going to a sport's subforum and trying to debate whether it's a real sport or not !

Whine more, you got some time to kill till the next tailor-made matchup for your idol.

Whenever you have a groundbreaker who's ahead of the curve and speaks what everyone else is afraid to say there's gonna be haters trying to throw rocks at his thrown.

You know as well as i do that i posted circles around you in this thread and completely dismantled your credibility as a combat sports fan, and thats all the motivation i need to keep speaking facts in a thread full of liars. If i can enlighten a few mislead posters for every thread i start then i'v done my job.

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/33/fos.jpg (http://www.threadbombing.com/details.php?image_id=3387)

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/33/fos.jpg (http://www.threadbombing.com/details.php?image_id=3387)

yeah, this guys is actually starting to make me laugh everytime i read one of his posts. he thinks he is 100% right on everything he has to say.

about the only thing this guy is getting is points cause he started the thread.

and look, he's a noob. guy just started posting this month.

What a freaking troll, going to a sport's subforum and trying to debate whether it's a real sport or not !

Whine more, you got some time to kill till the next tailor-made matchup for your idol.

I think you're onto something with this sub-talk. While i already proved that MMA isnt a "sport" i might be willing to refer to it as a "sub sport" since it's basicly just a spawn off of Boxing and WWE much like this subforum is a spawn off of the bigger, more legitimate, and more important Boxing forum. That's a good analogy for the way MMA milks the blueprint that was laid out by boxing years ago.

you guys are really harsh on a sport thats really only been around since the 90s. not to mention the HW division is the weakest in the UFC by far. And Brock uses his wrestling to win fights. Just don't argue that lol.

I think you're onto something with this sub-talk. While i already proved that MMA isnt a "sport" i might be willing to refer to it as a "sub sport" since it's basicly just a spawn off of Boxing and WWE much like this subforum is a spawn off of the bigger, more legitimate, and more important Boxing forum. That's a good analogy for the way MMA milks the blueprint that was laid out by boxing years ago.

Your joking ye? You didnt prove anything and you cant. Its literally impossible because it is a sport. Stop trying to make yourself feel better about boxings decline. We all love boxing and its not going anywhere, its just gonna have to settle for second best from now on

Your joking ye? You didnt prove anything and you cant. Its literally impossible because it is a sport. Stop trying to make yourself feel better about boxings decline. We all love boxing and its not going anywhere, its just gonna have to settle for second best from now on

Actually if you go back and read my arguements and the lackluster responses from those who disagree with me, you'll see that i'v already proven that MMA isnt a legitimate sport.

As far as Boxing "settling for second best", last time i checked Mayweather (in his first fight in 2 years against an opponent everyone thought he'd run through) sold 1 mill on PPV, while the UFC card on the same night sold within the 400K range. I expect the Pac/Cotto fight to smash UFC 105 in PPV buys as well when they go head to head in a couple months.

If that isnt definite proof that Boxing is still the leader in the combat sports world then i don't know what is. The whole "Boxing is on the decline while UFC is on the way up" arguement is a myth.

Actually if you go back and read my arguements and the lackluster responses from those who disagree with me, you'll see that i'v already proven that MMA isnt a legitimate sport.

As far as Boxing "settling for second best", last time i checked Mayweather (in his first fight in 2 years against an opponent everyone thought he'd run through) sold 1 mill on PPV, while the UFC card on the same night sold within the 400K range. I expect the Pac/Cotto fight to smash UFC 105 in PPV buys as well when they go head to head in a couple months.

If that isnt definite proof that Boxing is still the leader in the combat sports world then i don't know what is. The whole "Boxing is on the decline while UFC is on the way up" arguement is a myth.

Coz Floyd v JMM beat Franklin vs Belfort? That means nothing lol. Rich is know not to be a draw on ppv and Belfort hadnt fought in the ufc in years. Is Floyd considered boxings biggest draw? Imagine the top ufc draw, lesnar, against the top boxing draw on the same night. UFC would win everytime. But boxing promoters would never do it.

UFC cards produce hundreds of thousands of buys EVERY event, with the lowest number for a US event this year being a solid 350,000 for an ok card. Can boxing produce huge numbers once a month, sometimes twice? Boxing produces a couple cards a year that do well, everything else is mediocre. UFC dominates PPV overall

Btw, ufc 105 is free on ****e coz its a UK card so not gonna happen

Coz Floyd v JMM beat Franklin vs Belfort? That means nothing lol. Rich is know not to be a draw on ppv and Belfort hadnt fought in the ufc in years. Is Floyd considered boxings biggest draw? Imagine the top ufc draw, lesnar, against the top boxing draw on the same night. UFC would win everytime. But boxing promoters would never do it.

UFC cards produce hundreds of thousands of buys EVERY event, with the lowest number for a US event this year being a solid 350,000 for an ok card. Can boxing produce huge numbers once a month, sometimes twice? Boxing produces a couple cards a year that do well, everything else is mediocre. UFC dominates PPV overall

Btw, ufc 105 is free on ****e coz its a UK card so not gonna happen

You're making petty excuses but the fact of the matter is Mayweather/Marquez beat them by a landslide, Pac/Cotto will sell more then any UFC PPV this year, and anytime there's a big boxing fight going up against a UFC event boxing will smash them because boxing is the more popular sport as the PPV numbers will show.

"Men lie, women lie, numbers don't"


According to The Associated Press, last Saturday’s HBO promotion of the Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Juan Manuel Marquez boxing match had over 1 million pay-per-views buys, generating a whopping $52 million in revenue. The event went head-to-head with UFC 103 which featured a main event of Rich Franklin vs. Vitor Belfort, and although those official numbers aren’t in, it clearly fell short of it’s combat counterparts this weekend.
UFC president Dana White went on the offensive against Mayweather, saying on his UFC video blog that boxing was making fans pay to see Mayweather go “dancing with the stars again.”

The report goes on to say that UFC 103 most likely only sold a “fraction” of what the Mayweather/Marquez PPV did.

http://www.5thround.com/news/11668/mayweathermarquez-had-more-ppv-buys-than-ufc-103/

Im not saying it didnt do better u idiot so ur giving me useless quotes. Your ignoring my point coz im right and you cant deal with it. At then end of the year the ufc will have sold way more ppv's than boxing, the same way it has for the past few years. And thats what counts, not one event

Im not saying it didnt do better u idiot so ur giving me useless quotes. Your ignoring my point coz im right and you cant deal with it. At then end of the year the ufc will have sold way more ppv's than boxing, the same way it has for the past few years. And thats what counts, not one event

Terrible arguement, the UFC holds a PPV event every 4 weeks while boxing has a big event every 3 or 4 months. The fact that you're using that as the basis for your arguement speaks to how far into the bottom of the barrell you're reaching.

That would be like Meryl Streep bragging about how she's won more Oscars then Daniel Day Lewis when she's starred in 10 times the amount of movies. If you're gonna compare them fairly, it would have to be event for event and in that respect boxing destroys them bar none.

Terrible arguement, the UFC holds a PPV event every 4 weeks while boxing has a big event every 3 or 4 months. The fact that you're using that as the basis for your arguement speaks to how far into the bottom of the barrell you're reaching.

That would be like Meryl Streep bragging about how she's won more Oscars then Daniel Day Lewis when she's starred in 10 times the amount of movies. If you're gonna compare them fairly, it would have to be event for event and in that respect boxing destroys them bar none.

We're not talking about big events, we're talking about ppv sales. You cant just say lets not count the crappy ones and just count the big ones. It doesn't work like that. The bottom line is at the end of the year the ufc has more ppv buys overall. Ok Floyd sold more than ufc 103, a minor win in a non-existent "war" between boxing and mma but one event means nothing. Boxing doesn't have the big names to draw big numbers every month, the ufc does

yeah, this guys is actually starting to make me laugh everytime i read one of his posts. he thinks he is 100% right on everything he has to say.

about the only thing this guy is getting is points cause he started the thread.

and look, he's a noob. guy just started posting this month.



so what does that matter??

We're not talking about big events, we're talking about ppv sales. You cant just say lets not count the crappy ones and just count the big ones. It doesn't work like that. The bottom line is at the end of the year the ufc has more ppv buys overall. Ok Floyd sold more than ufc 103, a minor win in a non-existent "war" between boxing and mma but one event means nothing. Boxing doesn't have the big names to draw big numbers every month, the ufc does

Wrong, there's more superstars and household names in boxing. The general public doesnt know who Anderson Silva or Forrest Griffin is. Fighters like Floyd Mayweather, Ricky Hatton, Manny Pacquaio, and Oscar De La Hoya are known worldwide to everyone from sports fans to house wives.

The reason you see so many more UFC cards is because MMA is a less demanding sport then boxing which requires less training and preperation. The "athletes" of the UFC fight up to 5 or 6 times per year where as the top stars in boxing fight maybe twice per year, and yet even with considerably less PPV events boxing still manages to put up monstrous figures that rival the UFC's yearly sales total.

Like i said, it's only fair to compare them event for event and in that respect boxing dominates the UFC.

The reason you see so many more UFC cards is because MMA is a less demanding sport then boxing which requires less training and preperation. The "athletes" of the UFC fight up to 5 or 6 times per year where as the top stars in boxing fight maybe twice per year, and yet even with considerably less PPV events boxing still manages to put up monstrous figures that rival the UFC's yearly sales total.

Like i said, it's only fair to compare them event for event and in that respect boxing dominates the UFC.

laughs my ass off.

Yeah they think their stupid comments piss us off but the only way it would piss me off is if boxing was taking over mma but obviously its the opposite. Thats the reason a simple mma comment pisses boxing fans/mma haters off, coz they know boxing only has a few stars left and is quickly becoming 2nd to the ufc so they make their dumbass beer drinker or bar fights comment to try convince themselves otherwise

There is a world outside America.

Its much harder to combine numerous techniques and sports into one great sport and become a top athlete in mma than to focus on one sport though. MMA is young and most mma-ists came from one discipline but kids growing up now are training strictly mma and they'll get better and better. In ten years you wont even be able to make a point for mma vs boxing, mma will dominate

Do you not realize that the best MMA fighters come from ONE discipline?

And the ones who have been cross-training end up becoming like Heath Herring and Forrest Griffin?

Its actually ALOT easier training several disciplines because at the end of the day you will never be expected to master any of them. And thats what MMA is like right now.

You are just really dumb. Fans like you make MMA look real bad.

is this thread still going?

It's as simple as this,

MMA is a sport whether you like it or not. Maybe it's taking over boxing maybe it isn't. The athletes train just as hard as boxers, are just as dedicated, and at the end of the day they're masters of their craft, JUST LIKE BOXERS. If this was a sport where a bunch of random bums got into it cuz he was easy EVERYONE would do it. But there's a reason why kids walk into the gym, leave, and never show up anymore after getting punched in the face.

The athletes work hard just like any other athlete, and there's no reason why they should lose credit because their sport consist of every type of hand to hand combat.

Do you not realize that the best MMA fighters come from ONE discipline?

And the ones who have been cross-training end up becoming like Heath Herring and Forrest Griffin?

Its actually ALOT easier training several disciplines because at the end of the day you will never be expected to master any of them. And thats what MMA is like right now.

You are just really dumb. Fans like you make MMA look real bad.

Fedor - Sambo/Judo and Boxing from childhood.
Machida - Karate 3, Sumo at 12, BJJ at 15.
Nogueira - Judo from 5, Boxing at 15, BJJ at 18.
Anderson Silva - TKD and Judo as a teenager, then Muay Thai and BJJ.
GSP - Karate at 7, Wrestling and BJJ as a teenager.
Mousasi - Judo as a child, boxing at 15, then kickboxing, then MMA.
Nate Marquardt - cross training wrestling, BJJ etc since he was a teenager.
Shogun - Muay Thai and BJJ since mid teens.

Picking Herring and Forrest as examples of fighters who have cross trained from the start of their careers is incredibly misleading. Herring wrestled briefly in highschool, at no particularly good level, then pretty much instantly started fighting professionally. Forrest didn't do any combat sports until he started self defense training when he joined the police force at the age of 20.

All of those fighters I listed have cross trained from a young age and they make up a good portion of the elite fighters in the sport. The fighters who have excelled in one aspect of fighting then complimented their game with other parts have mostly been elite wrestlers. Couture, Henderson, Hughes, Koscheck, Lesnar, Sakuraba, Gomi, Kid Yamamoto.

so what does that matter??

so what does that matter you say? the guys a joke, i mean look at his responses. honestly, come on man.....you cant really always believe a guy that just got an account this month. no one has even agreed with him. at this point i think he is just trying to get under our skin and earn some points. i bet when this thread is done we will only see him in here when he feels like ripping on mma. anyway, new or not, i called him that cause back when i signed up someone did the same to me and it pissed me off so thats really all i was trying to do.

Fedor - Sambo/Judo and Boxing from childhood.
Machida - Karate 3, Sumo at 12, BJJ at 15.
Nogueira - Judo from 5, Boxing at 15, BJJ at 18.
Anderson Silva - TKD and Judo as a teenager, then Muay Thai and BJJ.
GSP - Karate at 7, Wrestling and BJJ as a teenager.
Mousasi - Judo as a child, boxing at 15, then kickboxing, then MMA.
Nate Marquardt - cross training wrestling, BJJ etc since he was a teenager.
Shogun - Muay Thai and BJJ since mid teens.

Picking Herring and Forrest as examples of fighters who have cross trained from the start of their careers is incredibly misleading. Herring wrestled briefly in highschool, at no particularly good level, then pretty much instantly started fighting professionally. Forrest didn't do any combat sports until he started self defense training when he joined the police force at the age of 20.

All of those fighters I listed have cross trained from a young age and they make up a good portion of the elite fighters in the sport. The fighters who have excelled in one aspect of fighting then complimented their game with other parts have mostly been elite wrestlers. Couture, Henderson, Hughes, Koscheck, Lesnar, Sakuraba, Gomi, Kid Yamamoto.

Props for responding before i got on lol. I think im just gonna leave this thread, the boxing fanboy responses are getting pathetic. MMA is a legit sport and is growing more popular day-by-day. Boxing may be on the decline in certain aspects but the rising popularity of MMA will force boxing promoters to finally step up and put on good cards from top to bottom and make the best fights instead of crap like Floyd v JMM. So boxing will benefit from MMA and vice versa. Stop with the MMA bashing, it makes you look as sad as those old ass boxing analysts who can't stand the threat of something new

When you talk about boxing you're obviously talking about an art that takes years to perfect. The top fighters of the boxing world are scientists in the ring who grew up with a pair of gloves on perfecting what they do.

When you talk about MMA you're talking about mostly beer drinkers from off the streets who get a few tattoos, do a few months of training and then go out there and fight other "athletes" in whats basicly a glorified street fight. I understand the appeal of that and how it can have a following given todays culture, but do you consider it a legitimate sport?

I mean, Brock Lesnar from the WWE came to the UFC and won their HW title after only 3 fights. Doesn't that kind've speak for itself?

what a dumb thread, lets see, boxing, muay thai, karate, wrestling, jiu jitsu, judo etc are all sports but when you combine them it automatically stops being a sport?

wtf is this ****?

what a dumb thread, lets see, boxing, muay thai, karate, wrestling, jiu jitsu, judo etc are all sports but when you combine them it automatically stops being a sport?

wtf is this ****?

The bolded is the only sport you named, the rest are martial arts. I'v heard of handicaps getting a black belt in many of those disciplines.

The bolded is the only sport you named, the rest are martial arts. I'v heard of handicaps getting a black belt in many of those disciplines.

you're a ****ing idiot, please explain to me why boxing is a sport and the others are not, and who decides what is a sport and what isn't? it sure as hell isn't you. Why is boxing a sport and muay thai isn't?


and no there are no handicaps getting black belts in those sports with the exception of possibly karate because everyone knows there are a load of mcdodjos out there, so "you heard" wrong. You think boxing is the only martial art sport? got your head out of your arse you pretentious, ignorant prick. You're probably just a boxing fanboy who feels bitter about the rise of MMA so feels the need to talk **** about it constantly.

no wonder you're in the red.

The bolded is the only sport you named, the rest are martial arts. I'v heard of handicaps getting a black belt in many of those disciplines.

Red k for being a pretentious, ignorant prick.

you're a ****ing idiot, please explain to me why boxing is a sport and the others are not, and who decides what is a sport and what isn't? it sure as hell isn't you. Why is boxing a sport and muay thai isn't?


and no there are no handicaps getting black belts in those sports with the exception of possibly karate because everyone knows there are a load of mcdodjos out there, so "you heard" wrong. You think boxing is the only martial art sport? got your head out of your arse you pretentious, ignorant prick. You're probably just a boxing fanboy who feels bitter about the rise of MMA so feels the need to talk **** about it constantly.

no wonder you're in the red.

Ed O'Neil aka Al Bundy got his blackbelt (the highest accomplishment in martial arts) in BJJ when he was pushing 60 years old. To further dismantle your point, it was awarded to him by the "great" Rorian Gracie, far from a mcdojo. That fact alone sums up why Karate, Tai Chi, BJJ and all these other goofy martial arts arent accepted by the general public as sports.

Red k for being a pretentious, ignorant prick.

Thanks, red happens to be my favorite color. Matches my AV and sig.:You_Rock_

Ed O'Neil aka Al Bundy got his blackbelt (the highest accomplishment in martial arts) in BJJ when he was pushing 60 years old. To further dismantle your point, it was awarded to him by the "great" Rorian Gracie, far from a mcdojo. That fact alone sums up why Karate, Tai Chi, BJJ and all these other goofy martial arts arent accepted by the general public as sports.

Actually the highest rank is a crimson belt.

Not that an ignorant cunt like you would be expected to know this.

Ed O'Neil aka Al Bundy got his blackbelt (the highest accomplishment in martial arts) in BJJ when he was pushing 60 years old. To further dismantle your point, it was awarded to him by the "great" Rorian Gracie, far from a mcdojo. That fact alone sums up why Karate, Tai Chi, BJJ and all these other goofy martial arts arent accepted by the general public as sports.

what's your point? yes he is 60 but it's not like he can barely move, he has been training for 15 ****ing years, so if BJJ is a "goofy" martial art, what do you have to say about 170 lbs royce gracie tooling art jimmerson ( a top 10 ranked cruiserweight boxer at the time and a golden gloves champion)?

note: this is not even MMA vs boxing, just BJJ vs boxing, if BJJ is a goofy mickey mouse martial art then what does would that make boxing?


kthxbye

Actually the highest rank is a crimson belt.

Not that an ignorant cunt like you would be expected to know this.

Do you really think the general public (outside of nerds who follow Karate from their parents basement without stepping foot into a gym in their lives) know what a crimson belt is?

They know what the HW title, the Stanley Cup, the World Cup, and the Superbowl is because those are legitimate sports. 99.9% of the population have never heard of a "crimson belt" because Tai Chi, Karate, BJJ, Judo, Sambo, Tae Kwon Doe, and Kung Fu are corny and irrelevant to popular culture.

what's your point? yes he is 60 but it's not like he can barely move, he has been training for 15 ****ing years, so if BJJ is a "goofy" martial art, what do you have to say about 170 lbs royce gracie tooling art jimmerson ( a top 10 ranked cruiserweight boxer at the time and a golden gloves champion)?

note: this is not even MMA vs boxing, just BJJ vs boxing, if BJJ is a goofy mickey mouse martial art then what does would that make boxing?


kthxbye

Actually Al Bundy got his black belt after training for 8 years, but i give you an A for effort when it comes to distorting facts. You can lie to yourself but you can't lie to me.

Actually Al Bundy got his black belt after training for 8 years, but i give you an A for effort when it comes to distorting facts. You can lie to yourself but you can't lie to me.

8 years? so what, that is a long time, it's not like that is 2 weeks

please explain to me the point you are trying to make, please explain to me why wrestling, muay thai, BJJ etc are not sports whereas boxing is, oh and plz give me your thoughts on a pure BJJ specialist who managed to beat a top 10 and golden gloves champion boxer since according to you BJJ is a mickey mouse martial art.

again, please explain why muay thai, wrestling, judo, BJJ are not sports

should be entertaining...

Do you really think the general public (outside of nerds who follow Karate from their parents basement without stepping foot into a gym in their lives) know what a crimson belt is?

They know what the HW title, the Stanley Cup, the World Cup, and the Superbowl is because those are legitimate sports. 99.9% of the population have never heard of a "crimson belt" because Tai Chi, Karate, BJJ, Judo, Sambo, Tae Kwon Doe, and Kung Fu are corny and irrelevant to popular culture.

Just accept you're ignorance and that you've been repeatedly owned and move on.

And I've stepped into many 'gyms.' The ad hominem doesn't help you save face, it just makes you look like more of a douche.

Actually Al Bundy got his black belt after training for 8 years, but i give you an A for effort when it comes to distorting facts. You can lie to yourself but you can't lie to me.

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Video of Ed O'neil getting his blackbelt.

"How long have you been here?"

"14 years."

^ 57 seconds in.

And the idea that public perception and "pop culture relevance" is what determines what is and is not a sport is beyond laughable.

mma fighters are not good fighters,they are mostly beer drinking lugs,a boxer would beat a mma lug any day,the only good fighters they have are the wwe wrestlers,i give the wrestlers credit they have amazing power and they have good submission holds,a some pro wrestlers would in a street fight beat any mma or boxer,lesner,piper,austin,cowboy bob orton,kininski,kowalski,flair,orndoff,muraco,the big show,andre the giant,jake roberts,these are just some of the wrestlers that would throw a mma or boxer head first out of a ring via the top rope:boxing:

Lesnar would destroy the Klitschkos in a street fight.

8 years? so what, that is a long time, it's not like that is 2 weeks

please explain to me the point you are trying to make, please explain to me why wrestling, muay thai, BJJ etc are not sports whereas boxing is, oh and plz give me your thoughts on a pure BJJ specialist who managed to beat a top 10 and golden gloves champion boxer since according to you BJJ is a mickey mouse martial art.

again, please explain why muay thai, wrestling, judo, BJJ are not sports

should be entertaining...

How about you give me your thoughts on how a 50 year old, years passed his prime, out of shape Ray Mercer was able to KO Tim Sylvia (a man who was UFC champion 2 years ago) in an MMA fight in under 30 seconds.

And i'v been explaining why they're not sports for 15 pages, learn how to read before you ask me to repeat myself.

Just accept you're ignorance and that you've been repeatedly owned and move on.

And I've stepped into many 'gyms.' The ad hominem doesn't help you save face, it just makes you look like more of a douche.

LOL, this is comedy. I just posted circles around you without even trying and you couldnt think of a response so now you're pulling the "Just accept that you've been owned and move on" card in a desperate attempt to save face.

You should've known you were bringing a knife to a gun fight when you walked into this thread. Either stick to the topic or go find another thread to whine in.

How about you give me your thoughts on how a 50 year old, years passed his prime, out of shape Ray Mercer was able to KO Tim Sylvia (a man who was UFC champion 2 years ago) in an MMA fight in under 30 seconds.

And i'v been explaining why they're not sports for 15 pages, learn how to read before you ask me to repeat myself.

And you've been told for 15 pages why you are completely full of ****. Learn to see the writing on the fuking wall.
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How about you give me your thoughts on how a 50 year old, years passed his prime, out of shape Ray Mercer was able to KO Tim Sylvia (a man who was UFC champion 2 years ago) in an MMA fight in under 30 seconds.

And i'v been explaining why they're not sports for 15 pages, learn how to read before you ask me to repeat myself.

Lol of course Mercer is going to beat Sylvia, probably 9/10. He was a paper champ with literally no ground game, his takedown defense was alright, but he had literally no ground game - His striking was okay, but it was no where near the caliber of a pro boxer. What did you expect to happen? I won money on that fight, because it was a stupid decision for Tim. Everyone knew he was going to try and stand with Mercer, which would only result in a KO, even his training camp thought he was crazy.

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But could Mercer beat Nogueira? Someone with crisper boxing and a titanic ground game? Don't make me LOL, Mercer got subbed by Kimbo - a street brawler who had more sense to put Mercer on his back than to stand with him like Sylvia. They're both bums, Bum 1 knocks Bum 2 out - Nothing is proved.

How about you give me your thoughts on how a 50 year old, years passed his prime, out of shape Ray Mercer was able to KO Tim Sylvia (a man who was UFC champion 2 years ago) in an MMA fight in under 30 seconds.

And i'v been explaining why they're not sports for 15 pages, learn how to read before you ask me to repeat myself.

that tim sylvia vs mercer fight means nothing, tim clearly didn't take the fight seriously at all since he came in over 300 lbs and fatter than ever, and they were originally scheduled to have a boxing match but couldn't get it licensed so decided to do it under mma rules but had a gentlemen's agreement to stand and trade. Everyone knows that wanting to stand with even a former pro boxer like ray mercer is not a wise decision and power is the last thing to go and everyone has that "puncher's chance" which is most likely the reason mercer won. Tim sylvia was never even that good anyway he was just a paper champ and was champ when the UFC heavyweight division was so weak it was a joke. Hell ray merver got subbed by kimbo slice! and we all know how good he is in MMA, a bum from the streets with a little bit of boxing and an awful ground game and he still managed to submit ray mercer.

moving on... please feel free to explain to me why stuff like wrestling, muay thai, judo etc are not sports whereas boxing is a sport, and no I can't be arsed to read all 15 pages of this thread...

How about you give me your thoughts on how a 50 year old, years passed his prime, out of shape Ray Mercer was able to KO Tim Sylvia (a man who was UFC champion 2 years ago) in an MMA fight in under 30 seconds.



Simple, Sylvia was never a great fighter to begin with, he's always been mocked at sites like Sherdog.

And yet, Mercer was beaten a worse fighter than Sylvia, Kimbo Slice.

mma fighters are not good fighters,they are mostly beer drinking lugs,a boxer would beat a mma lug any day,the only good fighters they have are the wwe wrestlers

First Class Ignorance, you never watched much MMA did you? Genki Sudo doesn't seem to be a beer drinking lug, neither do Loyoto Machida, Muhsin Corrbrey, GSP, Amir Saddollah, Immanari.

And may I remind you all, a former MMA fighter is ranked 11 on the WBA Heavyweight ranking (Ustinov). An MMA fighter isn't just a grappler, there are MMA fighters who are mainly from striking backgrounds, Ustinov for example, originally from a kickboxing background.

http://wbanews.com/artman/uploads/1/WBA_Official_Ratings_as_of_July_2009.pdf

Actually he was training for about a year before entering the UFC and destroying all their top competition and claiming their HW title. Far less time then it would take to get to the top of any real sport.

He was training mma for a year. You neglect the fact he trained in wrestling since he was a kid and won the ncca title. Wrestling is a huge asset in mma and a successful background in it goes a long way.

De la Hoya won a title in less than 2 year after turning pro, much like Brock did. Leon Spinks was a pro for little over a year when he beat the greatest boxing hw of all time in his 8th fight.

I find it funny he totally ignored my post.

Mr. President, where are you?????

what do you have to say about kimbo beating mercer? your stupid for mentioning the silvia/mercer fight cause now it has come back to bite you in the ass like the rest of this thread.

whats funny is that none of your boxing fan boys who usually join threads in the mma section that are about boxing have come to back you up. lol

The kid is obviously blind by hate.

LOL, this is comedy. I just posted circles around you without even trying and you couldnt think of a response so now you're pulling the "Just accept that you've been owned and move on" card in a desperate attempt to save face.

You should've known you were bringing a knife to a gun fight when you walked into this thread. Either stick to the topic or go find another thread to whine in.

I missed this one. You have been owned again and again, and every one can plainly see that you are both extremely ignorant and that you are biased to your preconceived notions. Arguing "points" with you would be about as productive as debating with someone who insists that the earth is flat, that evolution is a myth and that the universe is only 5000 years old. It is also something which I have no interest in doing.

Mr President is clearly completely ignorant, he should at least do some research before making assumptions about MMA, just makes himself look like a complete idiot.

Simple, Sylvia was never a great fighter to begin with, he's always been mocked at sites like Sherdog.

So you mean to tell me that despite winning the UFC HW title on 2 seperate occasions (at one point for over a period 2 years), that Tim Sylvia was never a great fighter? If that's the case then what does that say about the legitimacy of the UFC and MMA in general?

I don't see how you guys can even try to justify it. The bottom line is a 50 year old, worn out, out of shape, years passed his prime Ray Mercer came to MMA and KO'd a long reigning UFC champion in under 30 seconds.

That speaks for itself and anybody who even tries to argue that it doesnt hurt MMA's credibility is lying to themselves.


http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/0812/mma_mercer_sylvia_576.jpg

So you mean to tell me that despite winning the UFC HW title on 2 seperate occasions (at one point for over a period 2 years), that Tim Sylvia was never a great fighter? If that's the case then what does that say about the legitimacy of the UFC and MMA in general?

I don't see how you guys can even try to justify it. The bottom line is a 50 year old, worn out, out of shape, years passed his prime Ray Mercer came to MMA and KO'd a long reigning UFC champion in under 30 seconds.

That speaks for itself and anybody who even tries to argue that it doesnt hurt MMA's credibility is lying to themselves.



ray got submitted by kimbo ****ing slice and we all know how good he is in MMA, go see my previous post on the other page, you're so ignorant it's not even funny

Here's the video for those of you who havent seen out of shape, 50 year old, years passed his prime Ray Mercer's destruction of 2 time UFC Heavyweight champion Tim Sylvia.

And i stand corrected, i said the fight was 30 seconds but as it turns out it was actually only 9 seconds. :rofl:


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Here's the video for those of you who havent seen out of shape, 50 year old, years passed his prime Ray Mercer's destruction of 2 time UFC Heavyweight champion Tim Sylvia.

And i stand corrected, i said the fight was 30 seconds but as it turns out it was actually only 9 seconds. :rofl:


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Mercer lost two MMA matches too; Shannon Briggs got beat up in his MMA match and never wants to return, even laughs about it...he LATER won the heavyweight WBO belt.

Leon Spinks won the heavyweight title after six pro fights.

There are always counter examples in boxing to what you're throwing out about MMA.

So you mean to tell me that despite winning the UFC HW title on 2 seperate occasions (at one point for over a period 2 years), that Tim Sylvia was never a great fighter? If that's the case then what does that say about the legitimacy of the UFC and MMA in general?

I don't see how you guys can even try to justify it. The bottom line is a 50 year old, worn out, out of shape, years passed his prime Ray Mercer came to MMA and KO'd a long reigning UFC champion in under 30 seconds.

That speaks for itself and anybody who even tries to argue that it doesnt hurt MMA's credibility is lying to themselves.


http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/0812/mma_mercer_sylvia_576.jpg



KIMBO destroyed Mercer.....KIMBO!!!!!!, a regular joe from the street, so in your dumb words, that destroyes boxing's credibility and establishes that a regular joe can manhandle a former boxing champ...........way to go idiot


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1129/630819063_09d613e490.jpg?
v=0






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Here's the video for those of you who havent seen out of shape, 50 year old, years passed his prime Ray Mercer's destruction of 2 time UFC Heavyweight champion Tim Sylvia.

And i stand corrected, i said the fight was 30 seconds but as it turns out it was actually only 9 seconds. :rofl:


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Mr. President,

I find it so funny that you keep ignoring the kimbo thing.

Sincerely,

vinnie

KIMBO destroyed Mercer.....KIMBO!!!!!!, a regular joe from the street, so in your dumb words, that destroyes boxing's credibility and establishes that a regular joe can manhandle a former boxing champ...........way to go idiot


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1129/630819063_09d613e490.jpg?
v=0



You're missing the point completely. Ray Mercer is garbage, and at this point doesnt belong in any kind of ring. What your trying to prove by stating the obvious i don't know, but i think we can both agree on that.

And yet even with being 50 years old, worn out, and a shade of his former self, he was still able to KO a former UFC HW champion in MMA rules (when Ray Mercer is a boxer) in under 9 seconds.

If you somehow think you're proving a point by pointing out that Kimbo beat Mercer then you're wasting your time. I already recognize as well as you do that Mercer doesnt belong in any kind of ring, which makes his victory over Tim Sylvia all the more hilarious.

You're missing the point completely. Ray Mercer is garbage, and at this point doesnt belong in any kind of ring. What your trying to prove by stating the obvious i don't know, but i think we can both agree on that.

And yet even with being 50 years old, worn out, and a shade of his former self, he was still able to KO a former UFC HW champion in MMA rules (when Ray Mercer is a boxer) in under 9 seconds.

If you somehow think you're proving a point by pointing out that Kimbo beat Mercer then you're wasting your time. I already recognize as well as you do that Mercer doesnt belong in any kind of ring, which makes his victory over Tim Sylvia all the more hilarious.

wtf do you not understand about "the puncher's chance"?

all the sylvia vs merver match was basically just a boxing match with MMA gloves since they originally wanted to have a boxing match but couldn't get it sanctioned so decidided to do it under MMA rules but both had a gentleman's agreement to stand. and we all know that with those tiny gloves a fight can just end with one punch, we know that power is one of the last things to go and you're acting as if boxing has nothing to do with mma, of course it does it is one part of the puzzle. We know that sylva was a complete paper champion when the UFC heavyweight division was so weak it was a joke. we also know that sylvia refused to try and take mercer down and insisted on standing with him due to the gentleman's agreement. we know that sylva didn't take this fight seriously and probably barely trained as indicated by him coming in fatter than normal weighing over 300 lbs he was obviously just looking for a payday. considering all these factors it really isn't that amazing that the fight took place the way it did and says a lot more about tim sylvia himself than it does the sport of MMA, oh and ray got submitted by kimbo, a street bum.

You're missing the point completely. Ray Mercer is garbage, and at this point doesnt belong in any kind of ring. What your trying to prove by stating the obvious i don't know, but i think we can both agree on that.

And yet even with being 50 years old, worn out, and a shade of his former self, he was still able to KO a former UFC HW champion in MMA rules (when Ray Mercer is a boxer) in under 9 seconds.

If you somehow think you're proving a point by pointing out that Kimbo beat Mercer then you're wasting your time. I already recognize as well as you do that Mercer doesnt belong in any kind of ring, which makes his victory over Tim Sylvia all the more hilarious.


NO, you're missing the point, Sylvia doesn't belong in any ring. he is worn out and a shade of the mildly good fighter he was, the same as Mercer. So by saying Mercer beating Sylvia is discrediting MMA is just ignorant.


That claim of it being under MMA rules is BS, Boxing is one of the disciplines that goes under the MMA banner. So Mercer has an advantage in the stand-up, the same discipline Sylvia did. Sylvia is a stand-up fighter and him being KO'd by a boxer is not THE END OF MMAs cred as you say, Sylvia has never been a ground fighter, a takedown artist, muay thai specialist. Hell the whole Kimbo point is this, an average joe manhandled a former boxing champ. A boxing champ KOing a purely STAND-UP fighter is not as hilarious as the former......

NO, you're missing the point, Sylvia doesn't belong in any ring. he is worn out and a shade of the mildly good fighter he was, the same as Mercer. So by saying Mercer beating Sylvia is discrediting MMA is just ignorant.


That claim of it being under MMA rules is BS, Boxing is one of the disciplines that goes under the MMA banner. So Mercer has an advantage in the stand-up, the same discipline Sylvia did. Sylvia is a stand-up fighter and him being KO'd by a boxer is not THE END OF MMAs cred as you say, Sylvia has never been a ground fighter, a takedown artist, muay thai specialist. Hell the whole Kimbo point is this, an average joe manhandled a former boxing champ. A boxing champ KOing a purely STAND-UP fighter is not as hilarious as the former......

Here's where you went completely wrong. You claim Sylvia is as worn out as Mercer but you're ignoring the fact that he's only 33 years old (the age when most MMA fighters are in their prime ie: Anderson Silva being 34) and Tim Sylvia was at the top of the MMA world fighting for the HW belt against Big Nog literally a year and a half ago (a fight that he was dominating until he got caught with a submission) where as Ray Mercer is pushing 50 and it's been a good 15 years since he was looked at as a top level athlete, and he's a boxer not an MMA fighter.

To even further dismantle your point, since Mercer beat Sylvia and Kimbo beat Mercer, then according to you that means Kimbo (a street fighter who's looked at as a joke in the sports world) could easily beat Tim Sylvia.

Not to mention Kimbo's beaten James Thompson (a respected fighter in the MMA world) and it looks like after the Ultimate Fighter he'll be making some waves in the UFC. Shows how much of a "sport" MMA really is when a guy who basicly fights at BBQ's in peoples backyards can come in and have some an impact. :rofl:

Here's where you went completely wrong. You claim Sylvia is as worn out as Mercer but you're ignoring the fact that he's only 33 years old (the age when most MMA fighters are in their prime ie: Anderson Silva being 34) and Tim Sylvia was at the top of the MMA world fighting for the HW belt against Big Nog literally a year and a half ago (a fight that he was dominating until he got caught with a submission) where as Ray Mercer is pushing 50 and it's been a good 15 years since he was looked at as a top level athlete.

To even further dismantle your point, since Mercer beat Sylvia and Kimbo beat Mercer, then according to you that means Kimbo (a street fighter who's looked at as a joke in the sports world) could easily beat Tim Sylvia.

Not to mention Kimbo's beaten James Thompson (a respected fighter in the MMA world) and it looks like after the Ultimate Fighter he'll be making some waves in the UFC. Shows how much of a "sport" MMA really is when a guy who basicly fights at BBQ's in peoples backyards can come in and have some an impact. :rofl:

you're a ****ing idiot, firstly, in MMA we have a phrase called MMath, which basically means styles make fights, i.e. when chuck beat randy the third time, then randy went on and beat gonzaga, but that doesn't necessarily mean chuck would beat gonzaga. In mma there are so many more variables than when compared with boxing that there are so many ways to lose, and like I said styles make fights, so no, he was not saying kimbo is better than sylvia, that's like saying: kimbo > ray mercer > tim sylvia > big nog > brandon vera > frank mir

so is kimbo better than frank mir?

obviously not.

and for the second part, no james thompson is not a "respectable fighter", he is considered a complete can by the MMA community, something you would know if you actually knew anything about MMA. and no kimbo has not made an "impact" yet in any way, shape or form in MMA, dunno where you're getting that idea from, beating tank abbott, ray mercer, james thompson and bo cantrell is definitely NOT making an "impact" in MMA in any way shape or form, try not to pull facts out of your arse.

Here's where you went completely wrong. You claim Sylvia is as worn out as Mercer but you're ignoring the fact that he's only 33 years old (the age when most MMA fighters are in their prime ie: Anderson Silva being 34) and Tim Sylvia was at the top of the MMA world fighting for the HW belt against Big Nog literally a year and a half ago (a fight that he was dominating until he got caught with a submission) where as Ray Mercer is pushing 50 and it's been a good 15 years since he was looked at as a top level athlete, and he's a boxer not an MMA fighter.

To even further dismantle your point, since Mercer beat Sylvia and Kimbo beat Mercer, then according to you that means Kimbo (a street fighter who's looked at as a joke in the sports world) could easily beat Tim Sylvia.

Not to mention Kimbo's beaten James Thompson (a respected fighter in the MMA world) and it looks like after the Ultimate Fighter he'll be making some waves in the UFC. Shows how much of a "sport" MMA really is when a guy who basicly fights at BBQ's in peoples backyards can come in and have some an impact. :rofl:



Again you fail, 33 is the age of fighters being in their prime......wrong, look at Wanderlei, Noguiera, Cro-Cop, Kevin Randleman, etc. etc... I could go on and on, so one or two make it to their 30s and still produce then you claim thats their prime fighter age, good job.........

Dismantle my point yeah right, Kimbo CAN beat Tim Sylvia, it took you two posts to get it through your skull..........When he fought Mercer he was still an average bum, two years later hes had proper training in MMA with Bas Rutten, American Top Team etc., though he still has alot to learn but he can hang with mid-level fighters, something he could not do at the time of the Mercer fight.

A lot of quality fighters knock Tim Sylvia down in the first few seconds of their fights. Arlovski did it twice, Couture did it, Fedor did it. Mercer actually had the power to put him clean out though. And Sylvia came into the fight 50lbs over his usual fight weight, it's not like he looked to be giving himself the best chance really. And a boxer who can punch hard will always have a chance in an MMA fight, I don't think anyone denies that.

Big lolz at James Thompson being a respected fighter. Most people considered Kimbo to be exposed as pretty weak by the Thompson fight, considering how much trouble he had finishing.

In a sense, Mr President is kind of right that the talent pool in MMA is pretty shallow. But that's just because of the relative youth of the sport of MMA. There fighters competing now who started their training without specific dedication to succeeding in MMA. It's not because there isn't a wealth of technique to be explored and implemented in the sport. I believe a lot of fighters who are pretty established now, wouldn't reached the levels they have done had the sport not been so young. I don't believe fighters like Keith Jardine or Sylvia would make it into the UFC in 10 years time for example. The more people there are training MMA at a younger age, the deeper the talent pool will be and more talented athletes who resemble fighters like GSP, Machida, Silva and Fedor will be produced. It's not rocket science.

What is pretty funny is how Mr. President barely acknowledges any legitimate points made against him. I especially liked how he accused another poster of lying about the length of time Ed O'neil has been training BJJ when he full well knew he was lying himself.

A lot of quality fighters knock Tim Sylvia down in the first few seconds of their fights. Arlovski did it twice, Couture did it, Fedor did it. Mercer actually had the power to put him clean out though. And Sylvia came into the fight 50lbs over his usual fight weight, it's not like he looked to be giving himself the best chance really. And a boxer who can punch hard will always have a chance in an MMA fight, I don't think anyone denies that.

Big lolz at James Thompson being a respected fighter. Most people considered Kimbo to be exposed as pretty weak by the Thompson fight, considering how much trouble he had finishing.

In a sense, Mr President is kind of right that the talent pool in MMA is pretty shallow. But that's just because of the relative youth of the sport of MMA. There fighters competing now who started their training without specific dedication to succeeding in MMA. It's not because there isn't a wealth of technique to be explored and implemented in the sport. I believe a lot of fighters who are pretty established now, wouldn't reached the levels they have done had the sport not been so young. I don't believe fighters like Keith Jardine or Sylvia would make it into the UFC in 10 years time for example. The more people there are training MMA at a younger age, the deeper the talent pool will be and more talented athletes who resemble fighters like GSP, Machida, Silva and Fedor will be produced. It's not rocket science.

What is pretty funny is how Mr. President barely acknowledges any legitimate points made against him. I especially liked how he accused another poster of lying about the length of time Ed O'neil has been training BJJ when he full well knew he was lying himself.

good post, agree with all your points, comparing a sport that has been around since before 1900 to a sport that has only been around like 15 years is completely unfair and just ridiculous. The sport is constantly evolving, nowadays you have people training in BJJ and muay thai from the ages of like 10, in 15 years we will see some really elite athletes in MMA, your GSP's, anderson silva's, machida's etc are only the beginning of these elite fighters, and they will get a lot better, especially as the money gets better.

For those of you who missed it, let's watch it one more time from a different angle and pay close attention to the end when 50 year old Mercer reveals that he only trained 2 days for the fight:

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Bonus video: Kimbo Slice goes from fighting bums in peoples backyards to dominating a top level MMA fighter in only his 3rd professional fight:

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:boxing:

For those of you who missed it, let's watch it one more time from a different angle and pay close attention to the end when 50 year old Mercer reveals that he only trained 2 days for the fight:

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Bonus video: Kimbo Slice goes from fighting bums in peoples backyards to dominating a top level MMA fighter in only his 3rd professional fight:

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:boxing:


:tool:

.....James Thompson Top Level, ahahahaaha............thats like saying Carlos Baldomir is an elite boxer.......

Here's where you went completely wrong. You claim Sylvia is as worn out as Mercer but you're ignoring the fact that he's only 33 years old (the age when most MMA fighters are in their prime ie: Anderson Silva being 34) and Tim Sylvia was at the top of the MMA world fighting for the HW belt against Big Nog literally a year and a half ago (a fight that he was dominating until he got caught with a submission) where as Ray Mercer is pushing 50 and it's been a good 15 years since he was looked at as a top level athlete, and he's a boxer not an MMA fighter.

Here is where you are wrong. There is no universal age for a fighters "prime" and how long a fighters prime lasts depends on a multitude of factors, including the way they fight.

By your calculations Wanderlei Silva should still be dominating the LHW division with an Iron Fist. But sadly, that is hardly the truth.

To even further dismantle your point, since Mercer beat Sylvia and Kimbo beat Mercer, then according to you that means Kimbo (a street fighter who's looked at as a joke in the sports world) could easily beat Tim Sylvia.

MMA Math doesn't work homey. But I guess only when it favors an elitists argument.

Not to mention Kimbo's beaten James Thompson (a respected fighter in the MMA world) and it looks like after the Ultimate Fighter he'll be making some waves in the UFC. Shows how much of a "sport" MMA really is when a guy who basicly fights at BBQ's in peoples backyards can come in and have some an impact. :rofl:

James Thompson is NOT a respected MMA fighter. Dude is the working definition of China chin and his with Kimbo was hardly a beatdown.

That fight was just one bum fighting another bum.

For those of you who missed it, let's watch it one more time from a different angle and pay close attention to the end when 50 year old Mercer reveals that he only trained 2 days for the fight:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dXeIzVIpN2M&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dXeIzVIpN2M&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> [\QUOTE]

Do you honestly believe that a guy only trained two days? In case you missed it, at the press conference for that fight. Mercer *****ed for 10 minutes about he busted his ass training for a boxing bout only for him to find out it was changed to an MMA bout.

Tim Syliva is one of the crappiest strikers at HW. He makes Zuluzinho look like Sugar Ray Leonard.

If you knew what you were talking about. Tim's run as HW champion was during a time when ALL the Top Dogs @ HW were not in the UFC.

You had Tim, Andrei, Vera, Eilers, Mike Kyle, Wes Sims, Gan McGee, Tra Telligman and Mir on the injured list.

Where the **** are those guys now? They aren't even close to being relevant.



[QUOTE]Bonus video: Kimbo Slice goes from fighting bums in peoples backyards to dominating a top level MMA fighter in only his 3rd professional fight:

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:boxing:

read my previous post.

For those of you who missed it, let's watch it one more time from a different angle and pay close attention to the end when 50 year old Mercer reveals that he only trained 2 days for the fight:


Bonus video: Kimbo Slice goes from fighting bums in peoples backyards to dominating a top level MMA fighter in only his 3rd professional fight:


:boxing:


wtf is wrong with you? plz read my previous post and actually respond to it, oh wait you know you got owned by me and you ignore it yet you conveniently only reply to certain posts lmao, and again,

JAMES THOMPSON IS NOT A TOP LEVEL MMA FIGHTER YOU ****ING RETARD. and no he never "dominated" thompson in any way, shape or form, many people believe thompson won that fight

wtf is wrong with you? plz read my previous post and actually respond to it, oh wait you know you got owned by me and conveniently only reply to certain posts lmao, and again, JAMES THOMPSON IS NOT ATOP LEVEL MMA FIGHTER YOU ****ING RETARD.

Relax, man. Mr. President won't respond. He's been owned countless times in this thread, and he picks and chooses posts that he can twist to favor his argument

Relax, man. Mr. President won't respond. He's been owned countless times in this thread, and he picks and chooses posts that he can twist to favor his argument

lol he's obviously bitter/threatened about the rise of MMA

For those of you who missed it, let's watch it one more time from a different angle and pay close attention to the end when 50 year old Mercer reveals that he only trained 2 days for the fight:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dXeIzVIpN2M&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dXeIzVIpN2M&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Bonus video: Kimbo Slice goes from fighting bums in peoples backyards to dominating a top level MMA fighter in only his 3rd professional fight:

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:boxing:

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wtf is wrong with you? plz read my previous post and actually respond to it, oh wait you know you got owned by me and you ignore it yet you conveniently only reply to certain posts lmao, and again,

JAMES THOMPSON IS NOT A TOP LEVEL MMA FIGHTER YOU ****ING RETARD. and no he never "dominated" thompson in any way, shape or form, many people believe thompson won that fight

LOL, look at what i'v reduced all of you too. Desperately pleading to me that James Thompson isnt a top level MMA fighter as if that does anything to help your case after i'v proved all of you wrong for 19 straight pages.

Anytime anybody asks me how clueless and uninformed MMA fans are about what the rest of the public thinks about their "sport" i'm gonna show them this thread.

I wanna thank all of you for participating and you gave it an honest effort but trust me, with the amount of excuses, half truths, and twisting of facts you all pulled to try to "prove me wrong" you hurt MMA's credibility more then you've helped it. Hopefully you've all payed attention to the facts i'v layed down and you take that knowledge and learn from it. There's no shame in losing a debate (even when you outnumber him by 30 to 1) as long as you learned something from it, in which case i think most of you did whether you'll admit it or not.

Wow this is still going, i read through the last few pages and on several occasions this guy was proven wrong. Yet he still thinks he was right. Altough he did put up some decent arguments, whenevr someone gave him facts and proved him wrong he just didn't respond. Guys...stop responding lol he's a clueless boxing fan thats trying to convince himself mma hasn't taken over. Just drop it

MIXED MARTIAL ARTS

ART: a superior skill that you can learn by study and practice and observation

Sport: An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.

MMA Is a Group of art forms existing under many diffrent rules. MMA Can not be defined as a Sport because there is not a unified set of rules that is exists under. In order for MMA to be a sport there would have to be a set of rules that everyone aggrees on. It would also have to involve all the diffrent leauges in some way. ufc, strike force, m-1, whatever else their is that decides to call them self MMA.

I might even venture as far as to say that fighting would have to take place between the leagues as well for it to be considered a sport. compared to boxing where fights between the IBF, WBO, WBC, and WBA are all governed by certain rules that can be tweeked and they can all fight amongst each other instead of some one in the ibf waiting for a contract to run out so they can fight some one in the WBO.

Errr i mean some one in the ibf waiting for a contract to run out so they can sign another contract with some one else for another 2 years Just to fight some one in the WBO.

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JAMES THOMPSON a top level MMA fighter??????/ ahahahahahahaha

LOL, look at what i'v reduced all of you too. Desperately pleading to me that James Thompson isnt a top level MMA fighter as if that does anything to help your case after i'v proved all of you wrong for 19 straight pages.

Anytime anybody asks me how clueless and uninformed MMA fans are about what the rest of the public thinks about their "sport" i'm gonna show them this thread.

I wanna thank all of you for participating and you gave it an honest effort but trust me, with the amount of excuses, half truths, and twisting of facts you all pulled to try to "prove me wrong" you hurt MMA's credibility more then you've helped it. Hopefully you've all payed attention to the facts i'v layed down and you take that knowledge and learn from it. There's no shame in losing a debate (even when you outnumber him by 30 to 1) as long as you learned something from it, in which case i think most of you did whether you'll admit it or not.

lmao you're like a little kid, you haven't proven anyone wrong about anything in this thread, you yourself have been proven wrong time and time again in this thread by me and other members yet you only reply to certain posts and certain parts of posts so it suits you and you can twist the argument in your favour, no james thompson is not a top level MMA fighter, how many times do you need to be told? You're so ignorant it's ridiculous and all you do is pull facts out of your arse, all you're doing is making boxing fans look like ignorant little kids with your bull****, no one takes you seriously.

anyway, if you don't like MMA that is fine just don't watch it, but why do you feel the need to come into the MMA section and constantly talk **** about it? are you threatened by it? bitter? or do you just have no life that you get your kicks from coming to this section and trolling? I mean I don't like fishing and don't consider it a "sport" but it is classified as one, but that doesn't mean I'm going to go to some fishing forum and try to "explain" to everyone there that fishing is crap and isn't a sport. get a life.

Guy's really just stop feeding the troll. This is pure gratification for this guy. If he thinks James Thompson is actually a top level fighter, it's obvious he's suffers from some form of mental illness.

Hey president, thanks for the K from both you and your alt that you use to back yourself up. That's real cute.

Obviously the kids a troll if he couldn't take the time to read my half page post.

Factont.

Obviously the kids a troll if he couldn't take the time to read my half page post.

Factont.
That does kind of demonstrate how much MMA is gaining popularity when some of the same troll types that pollute Non Stop Boxing are ending up in this forum

Wow, this **** thread is still going? The thread starter's favorite sports are probably golf, baseball and Nascar.

How anyone could consider baseball a sport but not MMA doesn't possess much intelligence. Wait, according to that one retard, MMA isn't a sport because he's never seen videos of MMA fighters running for 6 miles a day. At least in baseball they run around that diamond on the rare occasion that they actually hit a ball. 3 out of 10 is major league success.

Obviously the kids a troll if he couldn't take the time to read my half page post.

Factont.

At least 50 people quoted me throughout this thread, if you expect me to respond to every single one of them then you're even dumber then that yes-man Fedor Emelienanko.

Wow, this **** thread is still going? The thread starter's favorite sports are probably golf, baseball and Nascar.

How anyone could consider baseball a sport but not MMA doesn't possess much intelligence. Wait, according to that one retard, MMA isn't a sport because he's never seen videos of MMA fighters running for 6 miles a day. At least in baseball they run around that diamond on the rare occasion that they actually hit a ball. 3 out of 10 is major league success.


I didnt say it wasnt a sport because i dont see them run i just said it was a sport for people that dont want to train as hard.

but that dosnt matter because its not a sport anyways.

Anyone who thinks its not a sport is a fvcking moron....

The top guys have trained for years, are complete athletes, are a lot more disciplined than boxers (arreola/fury etc) and would kick the cVnt out of any boxer in history.......

....chuck fedor in with valuev and it will be over in less than 3 minutes......however no HW in boxing has even put him dwn let alone beat him...

MMA is new but boy is it doing well.........it will kill boxing....thats is a fact.....as a fighting system it is much more useful than boxing...... its the ultimate sport and also the ulitmate self defence programme.

Not all mma fans are pricks....me and my mates are professionals in various fields and most mma fans are well beahved ...unlike Hatton fans ...oh i was gonna say Mayweather fans but he don't have any

give either of the klitschos 3 months training to prep for a bout and they would destroy any one in the ufc.

hell lennox lewis would probably do pretty well if he trained correctly need more then 3 months though maybe a year

give either of the klitschos 3 months training to prep for a bout and they would destroy any one in the ufc.

hell lennox lewis would probably do pretty well if he trained correctly need more then 3 months though maybe a year

train either of them in mma and put them in with the other....the one who is not trained in mma would be beaten savagely by brutal ground and pound.......mma as a fighting system destroys boxing....

give either of the klitschos 3 months training to prep for a bout and they would destroy any one in the ufc.

hell lennox lewis would probably do pretty well if he trained correctly need more then 3 months though maybe a year

lmfao you're retarded

it takes a hell of a lot longer than just 3 months training in takedown defence and submission defence to beat everyone in the UFC, heck it would take YEARS on takedown defence to stop elite wrestlers like brock lesnar, shane carwin, randy couture etc from taking you down, you have no idea what you're talking about.

give either of the klitschos 3 months training to prep for a bout and they would destroy any one in the ufc.

hell lennox lewis would probably do pretty well if he trained correctly need more then 3 months though maybe a year

You're a ****ing idiot. Kazuyuki Fujita could get Klitschko down and beat him.

MMA is new but boy is it doing well.........it will kill boxing....thats is a fact.....as a fighting system it is much more useful than boxing...... its the ultimate sport and also the ulitmate self defence programme.

MMA isn't a fighting system you f*cking spaz,it's not a self defence programme and it's not the "ultimate sport" either.

If it's a fact then how about you actually prove it,that is what a fact is afterall.

MMA is limited to north america an nowhere else,the UFC is the whole reason MMA is percieved to be such a big deal but the fact of the matter is there is no other MMA promotion that has achieved the same deal of success.Pride did and Pride is dead because of it's corrupt dealings.

Not all mma fans are pricks....me and my mates are professionals in various fields and most mma fans are well beahved ...unlike Hatton fans ...oh i was gonna say Mayweather fans but he don't have any

And yet you are a MMA fan and contradict the very same argument you have used.



lmfao you're retarded

it takes a hell of a lot longer than just 3 months training in takedown defence and submission defence to beat everyone in the UFC.

And yet Cro Flop(an inferior athlete to both Klitschko's) was able to defend the takedowns of legitimate wrestlers such as Kevin Randleman and Mark Coleman,who are both greater wrestlers than Couture,Lesnar and Carwin ever were.




You're a ****ing idiot. Kazuyuki Fujita could get Klitschko down and beat him.

Fujita is a glass jawed bum who would get knocked out before attempting such a thing.


Knocked out by a jab lol

And yet Cro Flop(an inferior athlete to both Klitschko's) was able to defend the takedowns of legitimate wrestlers such as Kevin Randleman and Mark Coleman,who are both greater wrestlers than Couture,Lesnar and Carwin ever were.




and you think it took cro cop 3 months to learn that takedown defence? NO!

and the klitchko's are more athletic than cro cop how? show me the proof

MMA isn't a fighting system you f*cking spaz,it's not a self defence programme and it's not the "ultimate sport" either.

If it's a fact then how about you actually prove it,that is what a fact is afterall.

MMA is limited to north america an nowhere else,the UFC is the whole reason MMA is percieved to be such a big deal but the fact of the matter is there is no other MMA promotion that has achieved the same deal of success.Pride did and Pride is dead because of it's corrupt dealings.



And yet you are a MMA fan and contradict the very same argument you have used.





And yet Cro Flop(an inferior athlete to both Klitschko's) was able to defend the takedowns of legitimate wrestlers such as Kevin Randleman and Mark Coleman,who are both greater wrestlers than Couture,Lesnar and Carwin ever were.






Fujita is a glass jawed bum who would get knocked out before attempting such a thing.


Knocked out by a jab lol

Actually MMA is available in other parts of the world other than the US and Japan, Art Of War is doing well in China (and its more Pride than the so-called successor Dream in my opinion), there are tons of MMA tournaments in Russia (that Ustinov used to take part in before he went pro boxing), there are MMA promotions in Canada, there MMA events that take place in Brazil like the famous Jungle Fights events held by BJJ legend Wallid Ismail that was used to also raise environmental issues of the Brazilian rain forests (an MMA event that promotes positive message? *gasps* Never....),there are also MMA promotions in the UK while not as popular as boxing or football (soccer), it still has a somewhat respectable following over here.

MMA won't die in Japan because Japan is where MMA started before it was known as MMA, Shooto is the oldest running MMA promotion since the late 80's, it may not be as popular as it was during the Pride years but I doubt it will go away.

Using Crocop as an example wasn't a good choice for today's times since he had some unimpressive fights recently, however back then Crocop was light on his feet and I'm sure is takedown training must've been long.

Also may remind you that Ustinov is a former MMA fighter, and he's doing well in boxing, you see it goes both ways if you have the tools to succeed in both sports.

Also, time and time again you're proving you're no better than those lame Tap Out wearing UFC fanboys with your MMGay insults (not even a 13 year old would come up with something so pathetic), its fans like you that ruin fanbases for other people.

MMA isn't a fighting system you f*cking spaz,it's not a self defence programme and it's not the "ultimate sport" either.

If it's a fact then how about you actually prove it,that is what a fact is afterall.

MMA is limited to north america an nowhere else,the UFC is the whole reason MMA is percieved to be such a big deal but the fact of the matter is there is no other MMA promotion that has achieved the same deal of success.Pride did and Pride is dead because of it's corrupt dealings.



And yet you are a MMA fan and contradict the very same argument you have used.





And yet Cro Flop(an inferior athlete to both Klitschko's) was able to defend the takedowns of legitimate wrestlers such as Kevin Randleman and Mark Coleman,who are both greater wrestlers than Couture,Lesnar and Carwin ever were.






Fujita is a glass jawed bum who would get knocked out before attempting such a thing.


Knocked out by a jab lol

a) You're getting the ability levels of those wrestlers wrong. Lesnar is the best out of all of them. Coleman and Randleman have better wrestling credentials than Couture on paper, but neither have good gas tanks, nor are they good at setting up their takedowns like Randy is.

b) Crocop has a better build for MMA than either of the Klitschkos. The technique of a good sprawl is flattening your hips to the floor and getting all your weight on top of your opponent. The taller you are, the more difficult this is to do. There are a number of other K-1 fighters of Crocops callibre who tryed MMA and didn't do well. Peter Aerts got taken down and submitted by a 183lb fighter with a 7-12 record. Alexey Ignashov lost to a very subpar opponent in his second MMA fight. Errol Zimmerman and Stefan Leko lost to a 183lb fighter. Matt Skelton lost his only MMA fight. Furthermore, Crocops legs are colossal and he has a lot of power in his lower body, which helped him a lot in the clinch. I think if there was a boxer to cross into MMA who could have success, it'd be a guy like Tua. Low centre of gravity, short limbs.

I also like this quote from David Haye:

"I've rolled around with MMA guys in the past - and even use British mixed martial artist James Zikic for sparring - and I know how hard it is to fight these guys. They are very physically strong and are very dangerous in the clinch and on the ground. Those are two positions that pro boxers are not used to. Also, despite always starting on my feet with these guys, I was finding myself taken to the mat eight times out of 10. That gives me a two in 10 chance of landing a hard punch and knocking my MMA opponent out. If Enzo can't land that bingo shot right away - and Bisping would be looking for it - he's likely to get kneed to hell and back or submitted in the blink of an eye. It really is apples and oranges."

Keep in mind those guys he was sparring were in all probability poor wrestlers.

a) You're getting the ability levels of those wrestlers wrong. Lesnar is the best out of all of them. Coleman and Randleman have better wrestling credentials than Couture on paper, but neither have good gas tanks, nor are they good at setting up their takedowns like Randy is.

b) Crocop has a better build for MMA than either of the Klitschkos. The technique of a good sprawl is flattening your hips to the floor and getting all your weight on top of your opponent. The taller you are, the more difficult this is to do. There are a number of other K-1 fighters of Crocops callibre who tryed MMA and didn't do well. Peter Aerts got taken down and submitted by a 183lb fighter with a 7-12 record. Alexey Ignashov lost to a very subpar opponent in his second MMA fight. Errol Zimmerman and Stefan Leko lost to a 183lb fighter. Matt Skelton lost his only MMA fight. Furthermore, Crocops legs are colossal and he has a lot of power in his lower body, which helped him a lot in the clinch. I think if there was a boxer to cross into MMA who could have success, it'd be a guy like Tua. Low centre of gravity, short limbs.

I also like this quote from David Haye:

"I've rolled around with MMA guys in the past - and even use British mixed martial artist James Zikic for sparring - and I know how hard it is to fight these guys. They are very physically strong and are very dangerous in the clinch and on the ground. Those are two positions that pro boxers are not used to. Also, despite always starting on my feet with these guys, I was finding myself taken to the mat eight times out of 10. That gives me a two in 10 chance of landing a hard punch and knocking my MMA opponent out. If Enzo can't land that bingo shot right away - and Bisping would be looking for it - he's likely to get kneed to hell and back or submitted in the blink of an eye. It really is apples and oranges."

Keep in mind those guys he was sparring were in all probability poor wrestlers.

great post, and I've seen what haye has to say about MMA, he respects it a lot and he says he wants to retire from boxing once he hits 32 and get into MMA, he says he's been training jiu jitsu for a while and he knows he needs to develop his ground game. I'd ****ing love it it he became big in MMA.

and you think it took cro cop 3 months to learn that takedown defence? NO!

and the klitchko's are more athletic than cro cop how? show me the proof

Klitscko is at the pinnacle of the most popular combat sport in the world, with the deepest talent pool among any combat sport in the world.

Crocop competed in MMA while COMPETING in K-1 as well. Its no secret Crocop's transition to MMA was a quick one with alot of success and very little cross-training.

Check out Crocop vs Coleman.

A kickboxer stuffed every takedown from a very high calibre wrestler and KO'd him in 2 minutes.

Klitscko is at the pinnacle of the most popular combat sport in the world, with the deepest talent pool among any combat sport in the world.

Crocop competed in MMA while COMPETING in K-1 as well. Its no secret Crocop's transition to MMA was a quick one with alot of success and very little cross-training.

Crocop transitioned to MMA at the very end of his K-1 career. After making his MMA debut, he had four more K-1 fights. And he did get taken down in his first MMA fights. Wanderlei Silva took him down, but Crocop was greatly helped by the specialised rules that if the fight reached the ropes on the ground, it was to be restarted standing, as opposed to in the centre of the ring again. Sakuraba took him down, and as amazing a wrestler as Sakuraba is, he's a natural 170lb fighter. Fujita took him down in their second fight.

As I've pointed out, Crocop has a better build for developing takedown defense than either of the Klitschkos. A lot of other K-1 fighters who enjoyed a huge advantage over their MMA opponents standing tried to make the crossover and failed. Crocop is an anomaly. He probably wouldn't have the same luck today if he was starting his MMA career today. It's one thing to survive on the ground early in your career with Wanderlei Silva or Sakuraba on top of you, two under-sized fighters , it'd be another thing entirely to have someone like Velasquez, Carwin or Lesnar take you down.

Check out Crocop vs Coleman.

A kickboxer stuffed every takedown from a very high calibre wrestler and KO'd him in 2 minutes.

yeah, where the wrestler shot with no set up and from halfway across the ring...

9/10, a well schooled boxer would destroy an MMA bum. If you do not believe me, go find out how Anderson Silva got beaten up and KO'd in 2 rounds by a clubfighter in the 90's. Even worse it was a Brazilian clubfighter, who would last 30 seconds with a European clubfighter

give either of the klitschos 3 months training to prep for a bout and they would destroy any one in the ufc.

hell lennox lewis would probably do pretty well if he trained correctly need more then 3 months though maybe a year

I agree, boxers are more skilled, higher caliber athletes then MMA fighters. If a WWE wrestler like Brock Lesnar can come in and make the top level MMA "athletes" look foolish, just imagine what a Roy Jones Jr in his better years or the Klitschos could do after a certain amount of training.

I agree, boxers are more skilled, higher caliber athletes then MMA fighters. If a WWE wrestler like Brock Lesnar can come in and make the top level MMA "athletes" look foolish, just imagine what a Roy Jones Jr in his better years or the Klitschos could do after a certain amount of training.
yeah...you forget that Brock has 20+ years of Amateur Wrestling experience to back his skills up. Sorry but this whole "Brock Lesnar was a WWE wrestler and now won a title in MMA so MMA is bull****" theory is whack. Because his WWE **** has nothing to do with the fact that he wins his fights. FOLKSTYLE WRESTLING and PRO WRESTLING are two completely different things...hmm imagine what Roy Jones would do in MMA...get kicked round, eat a few knees and elbows, get taken down or thrown, then eat a for more punches, elbows, knees, and maybe get locked up in a submission.

yeah...you forget that Brock has 20+ years of Amateur Wrestling experience to back his skills up. Sorry but this whole "Brock Lesnar was a WWE wrestler and now won a title in MMA so MMA is bull****" theory is whack. Because his WWE **** has nothing to do with the fact that he wins his fights. FOLKSTYLE WRESTLING and PRO WRESTLING are two completely different things...hmm imagine what Roy Jones would do in MMA...get kicked round, eat a few knees and elbows, get taken down or thrown, then eat a for more punches, elbows, knees, and maybe get locked up in a submission.

Stop taking my words out of context. I said they'd dominate after a certain amount of time training meaning they'd learn BJJ, wrestling, kicks, etc. and as the superior athletes they'd pick that stuff up a lot faster then MMA fighters do.

Here's where i kill your Brock Lesnar arguement. You claim Brock is successful in MMA because he has years of wrestling experience previous to his stint in the WWE, but what you completely failed to take into account before making your goofy arguement is all of Brocks wins (besides the 2nd Mir fight) were won because of his striking game which throws your "he's only dominating the MMA world because of his wrestling background" arguement out the window.

He's also won every single stand up exchange he's had in the UFC thus far against the top HW's MMA has to offer, and he's only been training stand up for a short period of time. So now that i put that into perspective for you, let's hear your next excuse for how a wrestler from the WWE can come to the UFC after a few months of training and be one of the best strikers in the sport.

Actually MMA is available in other parts of the world other than the US and Japan, Art Of War is doing well in China (and its more Pride than the so-called successor Dream in my opinion), there are tons of MMA tournaments in Russia (that Ustinov used to take part in before he went pro boxing), there are MMA promotions in Canada, there MMA events that take place in Brazil like the famous Jungle Fights events held by BJJ legend Wallid Ismail that was used to also raise environmental issues of the Brazilian rain forests (an MMA event that promotes positive message? *gasps* Never....),there are also MMA promotions in the UK while not as popular as boxing or football (soccer), it still has a somewhat respectable following over here.


None of these promotions have made any sort of impact in their respective countries,sure there are always going to be these low key MMA one night tournaments in Eastern Europe but it doesn't attract any great deal of attention and anytime MMA(ultimate fighting or cage fighting) does attract attention in Europe it's usually negative.

Cage Rage was the biggest MMA promotion in Europe and now it's dead,there is no possible way for the small regional promotions like Cag Warriors to achieve any great deal of success,what killed Cage Rage eventually was the UFC moving into the UK market and promoting events there and taking their biggest names away from them.

MMA won't die in Japan because Japan is where MMA started before it was known as MMA, Shooto is the oldest running MMA promotion since the late 80's, it may not be as popular as it was during the Pride years but I doubt it will go away.

No it won't die,but it's as good as done in the mainstream and major interest dwindeled before Pride died.


Using Crocop as an example wasn't a good choice for today's times since he had some unimpressive fights recently, however back then Crocop was light on his feet and I'm sure is takedown training must've been long.

Cro Flop is done at this point,both mentally and physically but at his prime he was defending the takedowns of legitimate world class wrestlers with ease

Watch his first fight with Wanderlei Silva and then just four months later his fight with Sakuraba,granted he out weighed Sakuraba by 25 pounds but he still had showed a great improvement on his takedown defense.

the point is MMA fanboys act like it is impossible to learn such a defense,sure it takes a hell of alot of training but it's not impossible be any means.

Also may remind you that Ustinov is a former MMA fighter, and he's doing well in boxing, you see it goes both ways if you have the tools to succeed in both sports.

When he fights a decent contender then come back to me,when you fight other bums then you are a bum,he has a good chin but is a big lumbering oaf.






a) You're getting the ability levels of those wrestlers wrong. Lesnar is the best out of all of them. Coleman and Randleman have better wrestling credentials than Couture on paper, but neither have good gas tanks, nor are they good at setting up their takedowns like Randy is.

I really do hope this is a joke?

:Lesnar is a NCAA Champion
:Randleman is a two time NCAA champion
:Coleman is a NCAA champion who also wrestled on an world class level.

Lesnar's competition was limited to the best in the country and he never beat Stephen Neal either

b) Crocop has a better build for MMA than either of the Klitschkos. The technique of a good sprawl is flattening your hips to the floor and getting all your weight on top of your opponent. The taller you are, the more difficult this is to do. There are a number of other K-1 fighters of Crocops callibre who tryed MMA and didn't do well. Peter Aerts got taken down and submitted by a 183lb fighter with a 7-12 record. Alexey Ignashov lost to a very subpar opponent in his second MMA fight. Errol Zimmerman and Stefan Leko lost to a 183lb fighter. Matt Skelton lost his only MMA fight. Furthermore, Crocops legs are colossal and he has a lot of power in his lower body, which helped him a lot in the clinch. I think if there was a boxer to cross into MMA who could have success, it'd be a guy like Tua. Low centre of gravity, short limbs.

There is no correct build for MMA or any combat sport and to suggest otherwise is stupid and wrong,the technique of a good sprawl comes from actually learning one.

Let me make this as clear as possible so delusional MMA fanboys such as yourself can understand -

Aerts,Skelton,Ignashov,Zimmerman and Leko were there to earn a cheque,nothing else,their failures would do nothing to hurt the credibility of the K-1 organisation as most were starting to see it as a comical joke to begin with.Besides, they never made the full transition that Cro Flop did.


I also like this quote from David Haye:

"I've rolled around with MMA guys in the past - and even use British mixed martial artist James Zikic for sparring - and I know how hard it is to fight these guys. They are very physically strong and are very dangerous in the clinch and on the ground. Those are two positions that pro boxers are not used to. Also, despite always starting on my feet with these guys, I was finding myself taken to the mat eight times out of 10. That gives me a two in 10 chance of landing a hard punch and knocking my MMA opponent out. If Enzo can't land that bingo shot right away - and Bisping would be looking for it - he's likely to get kneed to hell and back or submitted in the blink of an eye. It really is apples and oranges."

Keep in mind those guys he was sparring were in all probability poor wrestlers.


I really like this qoute to be honest:

“I look at the UFC audience and the boxing audience as being two different audiences entirely. Our audience in boxing is ethnic, Hispanic, Filipino, Puerto Rican, Mexican and the hard core boxing fan who can’t watch, like me, UFC. The UFC are a bunch of skinhead white guys watching people in the ring who also look like skinhead white guys. 90% of the people in the audience wear tattoos. For me and people like me, it is not something they ever care to see. They watched it, it’s horrible, guys rolling around like homosexuals on the ground. I mean it’s not a sport that shows great, great talent. The guys who throw punches can’t throw a punch to save their ass, when the punches land, the guys have no chins. These guys are not like boxers.There is no way the (UFC 100) pay-per-view generated the kind of numbers they put out. I know what the numbers were — south of one million. They’re not a public company. Who’s to check?”

I agree, boxers are more skilled, higher caliber athletes then MMA fighters. If a WWE wrestler like Brock Lesnar can come in and make the top level MMA "athletes" look foolish, just imagine what a Roy Jones Jr in his better years or the Klitschos could do after a certain amount of training.

if it's so easy then why aren't you in there making money?

Stop taking my words out of context. I said they'd dominate after a certain amount of time training meaning they'd learn BJJ, wrestling, kicks, etc. and as the superior athletes they'd pick that stuff up a lot faster then MMA fighters do.

Here's where i kill your Brock Lesnar arguement. You claim Brock is successful in MMA because he has years of wrestling experience previous to his stint in the WWE, but what you completely failed to take into account before making your goofy arguement is all of Brocks wins (besides the 2nd Mir fight) were won because of his striking game which throws your "he's only dominating the MMA world because of his wrestling background" arguement out the window.

He's also won every single stand up exchange he's had in the UFC thus far against the top HW's MMA has to offer, and he's only been training stand up for a short period of time. So now that i put that into perspective for you, let's hear your next excuse for how a wrestler from the WWE can come to the UFC after a few months of training and be one of the best strikers in the sport.

He beat Couture and Herring standing? So what? Neither are good strikers. They are both wrestlers. Mir was beating him standing which is why Brock took Mir down in the 2nd round after he landed a big knee on Brock. He's won by strikes on the ground. That's what you fail to comprehend. He took Herring and Mir down with his wrestling not his boxing. It's more about his wrestling and positioning on the ground than his boxing. He certainly didn't win the Herring fight because of his standup alone. He dropped Herring in the 1st with a punch, but after that it was all wrestling in the 2nd and 3rd round. Herring is not a top hw.Your mma "knowledge" is truly awful. Couture is an amazing 16-10.

Brock's not anywhere near one of the best strikers in the sport. Lol seriously. One of the most ignorant and stupid statements in internet history. Outstriking 2 wrestlers makes you one of the best strikers? You truly have no clue. Fedor, Yvel, Rizzo, Overeem, Kongo, Aleksander, Kharitonov, and Arlovski are way better strikers than him. And that's just in the hw division. You claimed him to be one of the best in the sport. Lol once again.