View Full Version : In his prime how good do you feel Joe Frazier was?


Boxing_12
09-16-2009, 10:54 PM
I think in his prime frazier was a animal, who could beat some and push all of the ATG heavyweights.

The man had a heart of a lion aswell, fighting with only one eye.

He also had very good head movement and his left hook is up there as the singlest hardest punch in history.

give me your thoughts on Frazier and how good you feel he was in his prime.

Stoppage
09-16-2009, 11:02 PM
Joe Frazier was a beast in his prime. His left hook was near perfect and he could throw it out like it was as natural as a jab. I'm sure he would have given some of the best heavyweights a lot of trouble and would have defeated many of them.

Boxing_12
09-16-2009, 11:04 PM
Joe Frazier was a beast in his prime. His left hook was near perfect and he could throw it out like it was as natural as a jab. I'm sure he would have given some of the best heavyweights a lot of trouble and would have defeated many of them.

His left hook was just a damn slegehammer. how ali got up from that in there first fight i will never know.

hayZ
09-16-2009, 11:09 PM
Awesome fighter.

BigMacFoster
09-17-2009, 12:04 AM
Lmao,Great topic mate.Let's see how many references to Muhammad Ali in this thread we get,While we are at it.


The man had a heart of a lion aswell,


Heart of a St.Lion perhaps?


His left hook was just a damn slegehammer. how ali got up from that in there first fight i will never know.

One and counting


Awesome fighter.

Credit from a poster sporting an Ali avatar? Two

JAB5239
09-17-2009, 12:36 AM
Lmao,Great topic mate.Let's see how many references to Muhammad Ali in this thread we get,While we are at it.





Heart of a St.Lion perhaps?




One and counting




Credit from a poster sporting an Ali avatar? Two

Your opinions and thoughts on Frazier have all been destroyed before, so your opinion now counts for zilch.

BigMacFoster
09-17-2009, 12:57 AM
You can't destroy an opinion,You moron.

Never the less the statements and claims I made remain unanswered,These were not simple opinions,These were claims used long before I ever used them.

And such qoutes as

All I just read was "blah, blah, blah, JAB is kicking the snot out of me on this topic".


Is not a legitimate defense,More a response of a true fanboy



http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=297106&page=8


There you go Slab,The thread is still there,You still have time to make a legitimate defense of your hero.

JAB5239
09-17-2009, 01:00 AM
You can't destroy an opinion,You moron.

Never the less the statements and claims I made remain unanswered,These were not simple opinions,These were claims used long before I ever used them.

And such qoutes as




Is not a legitimate defense,More a response of a true fanboy



http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=297106&page=8


There you go Slab,The thread is still there,You still have time to make a legitimate defense of your hero.

Why don't you post where I destroyed your timeline on why Frazier never fought Foster or Lyle?:owned:

them_apples
09-17-2009, 01:20 AM
Frazier had a nice snappy left hook, he could really whip it and catch opponents off guard. It wasn't the hardest punch in history though as the TS put's it.

Frazier was a great heavyweight, he'd give just about any heavyweight a hell of a fight regardless of size (the man took on everybody from small to large).

Bushidō
09-17-2009, 01:22 AM
Frazier would have gave anyone a run for their money except Foreman of course. Just a bad matchup for him

BigMacFoster
09-17-2009, 01:29 AM
Your argument was "Frazier had already been champ for 3 years and he lost to Quarry and drew with Peralta the year before Frazier lost his title to Foreman"

Which wasn't true at all,Lyle lost to Quarry two and a half weeks later after foreman and frazier.

He never even faced Peralta until May 1973 and then a rematch draw later that year


You never destroyed any timeline



Your time line for Lyle simply blows. I've already pointed out the facts that he didn't turn pro till Frazier had already been champ for 3 years and he lost to Quarry and drew with Peralta the year before Frazier lost his title to Foreman. When should Frazier have given him a title shot?


My response

And yet you are listing out Lyle's shortcomings in 1973,A year in which I never even mentioned.Since when has number of years as a pro been a factor in which a fighter recieved a title shot? Tyson recieved a title shot after only just a year a half as a pro as did Fernando Vargas,Lyle was the hottest heavyweight in boxing in 1972 and after his knockout victory over Buster Mathis a heavyweight title fight between Frazier and Lyle seemed inevitable.But guess what happened? As was the case with Foster,Lyle got handed over to personal gatekeeper Jerry Quarry.I never claimed Lyle was in contention for a title shot in 1973,But to argue that he wasn't in 1972 is downright idiotic.


Your response


So what are you saying, that Lyle was a better fighter in 72 than 73?
Lol, it doesn't matter. I find it incredibly funny that you would put Frazier down for not fighting an up and coming, yet green fighter, inbetween bouts with ali and Foreman. I mean, how much more of a hater can you be?


Which doesn't actually support your "debunking my timeline"



:owned: Aren't you clever?

JAB5239
09-17-2009, 01:34 AM
Your argument was "Frazier had already been champ for 3 years and he lost to Quarry and drew with Peralta the year before Frazier lost his title to Foreman"

Which wasn't true at all,Lyle lost to Quarry two and a half weeks later after foreman and frazier.

He never even faced Peralta until May 1973 and then a rematch draw later that year


You never destroyed any timeline






My response




Your response





Which doesn't actually support your "debunking my timeline"



:owned: Aren't you clever?

You are such an idiot you don't even realize you just owned yourself. ****ing brilliant!!!! :rofl:

BigMacFoster
09-17-2009, 02:51 AM
Thus settling the argument,You admit that you hero avoided many fighters during his era and you've trapped yourself into a corner of which not even the most apologetic of excuses can buy you out now.


It's starting to look like that you and the Dynamite Tit are the same person under two accounts,for two simple reasons

1)You both avoid and duck direct arguments,points and questions

2)Your hero's consist of glass jawed fighters


Now close your account and go join your sister at the zoo

JAB5239
09-17-2009, 04:35 AM
Thus settling the argument,You admit that you hero avoided many fighters during his era and you've trapped yourself into a corner of which not even the most apologetic of excuses can buy you out now.


It's starting to look like that you and the Dynamite Tit are the same person under two accounts,for two simple reasons

1)You both avoid and duck direct arguments,points and questions

2)Your hero's consist of glass jawed fighters


Now close your account and go join your sister at the zoo

You're an idiot that has zero proof that Frazier avoided Lyle or Foster, intentional or otherwise. One fighter was green and unproven, the other lost his chance when he was beat by Quarry. Neither were ever in a mandatory position to challenge Frazier, therefore there was no "duck". Just because Frazier COULD have fought them doesn't mean he should have or had any obligation to. You don't seem to understand that and want to make up your own definition of what it means for one fighter to avoid another. You are seriously pathetic.

Silencers
09-17-2009, 05:44 AM
Frazier at his best would've given any heavyweight throughout history a fight, win or lose.

GJC
09-17-2009, 09:31 AM
Frazier at his best would've given any heavyweight throughout history a fight, win or lose.
Agreed, Frazier was a true warrior who doesn't seem to get a lot of respect these days.
Only 2 men to beat him were top 10 ATG HW's think that says enough really.

Boxing_12
09-17-2009, 11:13 AM
You're an idiot that has zero proof that Frazier avoided Lyle or Foster, intentional or otherwise. One fighter was green and unproven, the other lost his chance when he was beat by Quarry. Neither were ever in a mandatory position to challenge Frazier, therefore there was no "duck". Just because Frazier COULD have fought them doesn't mean he should have or had any obligation to. You don't seem to understand that and want to make up your own definition of what it means for one fighter to avoid another. You are seriously pathetic.

Jabs you have just owned mac foster! have some k man!

sonnyboyx2
09-17-2009, 11:20 AM
I think in his prime frazier was a animal, who could beat some and push all of the ATG heavyweights.

The man had a heart of a lion aswell, fighting with only one eye.

He also had very good head movement and his left hook is up there as the singlest hardest punch in history.

give me your thoughts on Frazier and how good you feel he was in his prime.

Smokin`Joe Frazier was one of the greatest heavyweight champions in history and an even money fight for any other heavyweight in history Frazier will always be ranked 5-7 on the ATG Heavyweight List..... Frazier was a Brute who had one of the hardest punches in boxing history, he had 30ins thighs to generate `incredible` KO power, Frazier had a chin made of `Granite`knocked to the canvas 6 times by a Peak George Foreman even lifted off the floor by the most savage punch in boxing history yet was up on his feet at the count of 3 ... Frazier was `Stopped` by Foreman NOT KOd.. No other fighter in boxing history could have gotten to his feet after such awesome punches as Frazier took, Joe Frazier won the greatest prize fight in boxing history March 8th 1971 (Fight of the Century) showing an unbelievable will to win, Joe Frazier was voted Fighter of the Year 3 Times, Joe Frazier took part in 4 fights voted Fight of the Year.. Frazier vs Ali (3) was 34yrs ago yet is still talked about today... Larry Holmes said in his autobiography that Joe Frazier would "Bomb-Out" Mike Tyson & Lennox Lewis in less than 2rds, Holmes said,"Holyfield would be too brave for his own good against Frazier and would be KOd within 4rds..... Smokin`Joe Frazier was one of the greats.

bojangles1987
09-17-2009, 01:44 PM
Frazier would always have trouble with clubbing power punchers like Foreman, but his tenacity and body attack would give him a good chance against any other heavyweight that has ever fought.

Gettin Jiggy
09-17-2009, 02:36 PM
Lmao,Great topic mate.Let's see how many references to Muhammad Ali in this thread we get,While we are at it.





Heart of a St.Lion perhaps?




One and counting




Credit from a poster sporting an Ali avatar? Two

So this is another one of my alts. I wish BPP could just confrim that I am no one's alt and the reason havent been on here lately is because my Internet has been playing up.

Foster everyone knows you and Slimey Limey are a alts. No one likes you round here, u don't know nothing about boxing or mma.

You always say how gay mma is and start threads about how the forum should be shut down, but yet you start threads in there wanting to discuss it?

Get a life you sad piece of ****!

boxingbuff
09-17-2009, 03:40 PM
Frazier would have gave anyone a run for their money except Foreman of course. Just a bad matchup for him

Forman and Sonny Liston.These type of fighters would always destroy Joe Frazier.

But against other great HW's like Ali,Holmes,and Tunney he would beat.

In fact,only Forman,Frazier,and maybe Joe Louis would beat him.

He was a great,great fighter!

Bushidō
09-17-2009, 10:48 PM
Frazier at his best would've given any heavyweight throughout history a fight, win or lose.

Yeah I don't know how anyone can argue this. (if you forget about the Foreman fight. just a bad matchup for him)

Bushidō
09-17-2009, 10:50 PM
You're an idiot that has zero proof that Frazier avoided Lyle or Foster, intentional or otherwise. One fighter was green and unproven, the other lost his chance when he was beat by Quarry. Neither were ever in a mandatory position to challenge Frazier, therefore there was no "duck". Just because Frazier COULD have fought them doesn't mean he should have or had any obligation to. You don't seem to understand that and want to make up your own definition of what it means for one fighter to avoid another. You are seriously pathetic.

Ownedddddddddddd. nice post

Numa
09-17-2009, 10:53 PM
Tough as nails. Wasn't a fan of his fighting style though.

JAB5239
09-18-2009, 03:07 AM
Jabs you have just owned mac foster! have some k man!

Ownedddddddddddd. nice post


Thank you gentlemen. :usa2:

BigMacFoster
09-18-2009, 05:34 AM
You're an idiot that has zero proof that Frazier avoided Lyle or Foster, intentional or otherwise. One fighter was green and unproven, the other lost his chance when he was beat by Quarry. Neither were ever in a mandatory position to challenge Frazier, therefore there was no "duck". Just because Frazier COULD have fought them doesn't mean he should have or had any obligation to. You don't seem to understand that and want to make up your own definition of what it means for one fighter to avoid another. You are seriously pathetic.


Somebody doesn't know the difference between ducking and avoiding and it really is getting annoying.

Very few champions legitimately duck opponents,Most legitimate ducks are the cause of unworthy mandatory challengers.


Could Lyle vs Frazier have happened when Frazier was champion and when he wasn't? Yes,Most certainly.

Could Mac Foster vs Frazier have happened during the first half of 1970? Yes and it was expected to happen.



Frazier at his best would've given any heavyweight throughout history a fight, win or lose.

Except George Foreman,Riddick Bowe,Sonny Liston,Mike Tyson and Joe Louis



Agreed, Frazier was a true warrior who doesn't seem to get a lot of respect these days.
Only 2 men to beat him were top 10 ATG HW's think that says enough really.


Apart from me,Where does he fail to get respect? The guy just got his own documentary dedicated to carving up the legacy of his long time rival,HBO certainly respected Frazier enough to air this documentary,Ignorant casual,boxing fans respected Frazier enough to believe that he really was the victim they tried to portray him as



Frazier had a chin made of `Granite`knocked to the canvas 6 times by a Peak George Foreman even lifted off the floor by the most savage punch in boxing history yet was up on his feet at the count of 3 ... Frazier was `Stopped` by Foreman NOT KOd.. No other fighter in boxing history could have gotten to his feet after such awesome punches as Frazier took

No fighter with a granite chin ever got put down six times inside of two rounds.A guy with a granite chin doesn't get put down eleven times during his career.

Odd that you label Lennox Lewis as glass jawed yet claim Frazier had a great chin.

Larry Holmes said in his autobiography that Joe Frazier would "Bomb-Out" Mike Tyson & Lennox Lewis in less than 2rds, Holmes said,"Holyfield would be too brave for his own good against Frazier and would be KOd within 4rds..... Smokin`Joe Frazier was one of the greats.


You would think a legitimate world class boxer like Larry Holmes would know better.Holmes is the kind of guy who would say "Ali hit him harder,Than Mike Tyson ever did"


Jabs you have just owned mac foster! have some k man!



So this is another one of my alts. I wish BPP could just confrim that I am no one's alt and the reason havent been on here lately is because my Internet has been playing up.

Foster everyone knows you and Slimey Limey are a alts. No one likes you round here, u don't know nothing about boxing or mma.

You always say how gay mma is and start threads about how the forum should be shut down, but yet you start threads in there wanting to discuss it?

Get a life you sad piece of ****!


I don't see why you had to log into different accounts to make notes of my posts,That is rather sad.


I have nothing to hide fella,I know how many accounts I have on this forum(the only forum I post on).

Can the same be said for you?

Cry us a river and scrape the sand out of you vagina poopsykins



Yeah I don't know how anyone can argue this. (if you forget about the Foreman fight. just a bad matchup for him)


Or perhaps Foreman was just that much better than him.Oh I am sorry,I forgot,Frazier was washed up when Foreman got to him,He never beat Frazier in his prime like Frazier beat a prime,in-ring shape Ali

:dunce:


Ownedddddddddddd. nice post

If it makes you feel any better,Just be grateful that you don't know anything about Frazier and that era to know the real truth.




Thank you gentlemen. :usa2:

Is this the same kind of E-respect you talked of in the past? Do you tell your family how much respect you have garnered over the internet forums?

JAB5239
09-18-2009, 02:28 PM
[QUOTE=BigMacFoster;6122283]Somebody doesn't know the difference between ducking and avoiding and it really is getting annoying.

Very few champions legitimately duck opponents,Most legitimate ducks are the cause of unworthy mandatory challengers.

Go ahead PissPooper, (sigh) explain your definition of "ducking" and your definition of "avoiding". We'll all be anxiously waiting.

Could Lyle vs Frazier have happened when Frazier was champion and when he wasn't? Yes,Most certainly.

So what. As I already stated Lyle was unproven and green, and Frazier had no reason nor obligation to fight him.

Could Mac Foster vs Frazier have happened during the first half of 1970? Yes and it was expected to happen.

He lost to Quarry, end of story. Nobody expected it after that. Back to the drawing board son.

▀ringer
09-19-2009, 05:44 AM
I've never understood why a lot of modern day fans seem to never give Frazier anywhere near the amount of credit he deserves. He seems quite hated at times and I can't fathom why.

If you're a fan of this sport and you wanted to build a fan friendly fighter, someone you wouldn't min dpaying to see ; Joe Frazier is one of the first fighters that springs to my mind.

How good do I think he was? Good enough to be one of the top 10 Heavyweights of all time. And I think that says enough, right there.

BigMacFoster
09-19-2009, 06:25 PM
Go ahead PissPooper, (sigh) explain your definition of "ducking" and your definition of "avoiding". We'll all be anxiously waiting.


Ducking - To evade; dodge: duck responsibility; To evade a responsibility or obligation

Avoiding - To stay clear of; shun; To keep from happening

Such definitions can be found over the intenet,Pal.It really doesn't take a genius to tell the difference between the two especially in a boxing sense.

[
So what. As I already stated Lyle was unproven and green, and Frazier had no reason nor obligation to fight him.


Which hadn't prevented frazier from defending his titles against two no hopers in Terry Daniels and Ron Stander.

Stop resorting back to the ducking argument,I've already explained this.

Ron Lyle was a top heavyweight from 1972 to 1976,Around the same amount of time frazier was still relevant to the heavyweight division.No fight?
I wonder why......


[He lost to Quarry, end of story. Nobody expected it after that. Back to the drawing board son.



Please do present the argument that I gave for foster being in position to fight frazier after he lost to Quarry.

Did I ever give such an argument? I don't think I did,Lay off the fairy cakes son.



I've never understood why a lot of modern day fans seem to never give Frazier anywhere near the amount of credit he deserves. He seems quite hated at times and I can't fathom why.

To hate a subject,You must have to invest emotional time into it,I doubt most modern fans care enough for Joe frazier to actually hate him.

He get's more credit than he deserves and for you to try and portray him as underrated,unappreciated former champion shows what the powers of a documentary can do to the mind of an ignoramus.


How good do I think he was? Good enough to be one of the top 10 Heavyweights of all time. And I think that says enough, right there.

It does say enough,It says enough about you and how delusional you are.

Silencers
09-20-2009, 04:54 AM
Except George Foreman,Riddick Bowe,Sonny Liston,Mike Tyson and Joe Louis

Nope. Anyone. Even though Foreman was and always would've been a bad stylistic matchup for him he would've given Foreman a fight at his best, not to make excuses but he really wasn't the same after the first Ali fight.

evangelista !?
09-20-2009, 05:23 AM
great fighter, just wondering why he lose against foreman

GJC
09-20-2009, 08:05 PM
Apart from me,Where does he fail to get respect? The guy just got his own documentary dedicated to carving up the legacy of his long time rival,HBO certainly respected Frazier enough to air this documentary,Ignorant casual,boxing fans respected Frazier enough to believe that he really was the victim they tried to portray him as


The is another guy on here mrboxer I think his name is who states that Frazier couldn't beat anyone in the current top 50.
The documentary you refer to was the Thrilla in Manilla I assume?
I thought it was balanced in so far as both of them came out quite badly to be honest.
Read Ghosts of Manilla on which I assume it was based which I much preferred.

BigMacFoster
09-20-2009, 08:39 PM
The day I run out of toilet paper,Is the day that is read a boxing book,I could care less about what some old decrepit fart has to say on boxing,Most boxing books have an agenda,No matter who they are written by.

My issue is with their portraying of Joe frazier as a victim of Ali's legacy,

frazier is a product of Ali's legacy,The only reason he is remembered is because of Ali.

If you wish to look at a victim of Ali's legacy then look no further than Ernie "What's my name" Terrell,A former heavyweight champion and a very good fighter - remembered as nothing else than Ali's whipping boy.


Where is Terrell's documentary? Where is Terrell's pity?

Hell most people think Ali was just,in the way he treated Terrell,That Terrell reused to recognize him by his new name and deserved what he got.

Yet when Ali throws a few childish taunts in old poor joe fraziers face then it seems joe frazier has been treated worse than a rape victim.


Don't buy into frazier and Ali's supposed past close friendship either.


Nope. Anyone. Even though Foreman was and always would've been a bad stylistic matchup for him he would've given Foreman a fight at his best, not to make excuses but he really wasn't the same after the first Ali fight.


You just made an excuse

▀ringer
09-20-2009, 10:03 PM
To hate a subject,You must have to invest emotional time into it,I doubt most modern fans care enough for Joe frazier to actually hate him.

He get's more credit than he deserves and for you to try and portray him as underrated,unappreciated former champion shows what the powers of a documentary can do to the mind of an ignoramus.




It does say enough,It says enough about you and how delusional you are.

Hate may be a strong word, but I definitely sense a certain amount of dislike for him, to put it mildly.

I'm not trying to portray him as anything ; Joe's credentials speak for themselves, and that portrays him as the individual he is.

I just don't feel he gets the same amount of respect as many of the other Heavyweight "Greats".

And what are you even bringing up the Documentary for? I've been an avid Frazier fan since I started watching boxing in '95 ; my opinion of the man was already formed long before HBO decided to do a documentary on him.

And if I'm delusional, you're equally if not even moreso with your crackpot theories and bull**** conspiracies.

JAB5239
09-21-2009, 12:14 AM
Ducking - To evade; dodge: duck responsibility; To evade a responsibility or obligation

Avoiding - To stay clear of; shun; To keep from happening

Such definitions can be found over the intenet,Pal.It really doesn't take a genius to tell the difference between the two especially in a boxing sense.



Which hadn't prevented frazier from defending his titles against two no hopers in Terry Daniels and Ron Stander.

Stop resorting back to the ducking argument,I've already explained this.

Ron Lyle was a top heavyweight from 1972 to 1976,Around the same amount of time frazier was still relevant to the heavyweight division.No fight?
I wonder why......





Please do present the argument that I gave for foster being in position to fight frazier after he lost to Quarry.

Did I ever give such an argument? I don't think I did,Lay off the fairy cakes son.





To hate a subject,You must have to invest emotional time into it,I doubt most modern fans care enough for Joe frazier to actually hate him.

He get's more credit than he deserves and for you to try and portray him as underrated,unappreciated former champion shows what the powers of a documentary can do to the mind of an ignoramus.




It does say enough,It says enough about you and how delusional you are.

This is getting old and tired. You do realize there is a reason nobody agree's with you, right PissPooper?

BigMacFoster
09-21-2009, 04:39 AM
Why would I want anyone to agree with me? I have my own opinions and thoughts and could care less who shares them.

I'm glad others don't share my opinions,Having someone else agree with an opinion doesn't make it anymore legitimate.



And if I'm delusional, you're equally if not even moreso with your crackpot theories and bull**** conspiracies.


There is no fooling a lie detector test.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The day I stopped taking you seriously..........Prick!

GJC
09-21-2009, 10:44 AM
The day I run out of toilet paper,Is the day that is read a boxing book,I could care less about what some old decrepit fart has to say on boxing,Most boxing books have an agenda,No matter who they are written by.

My issue is with their portraying of Joe frazier as a victim of Ali's legacy,

frazier is a product of Ali's legacy,The only reason he is remembered is because of Ali.

If you wish to look at a victim of Ali's legacy then look no further than Ernie "What's my name" Terrell,A former heavyweight champion and a very good fighter - remembered as nothing else than Ali's whipping boy.


Where is Terrell's documentary? Where is Terrell's pity?

Hell most people think Ali was just,in the way he treated Terrell,That Terrell reused to recognize him by his new name and deserved what he got.

Yet when Ali throws a few childish taunts in old poor joe fraziers face then it seems joe frazier has been treated worse than a rape victim.


Don't buy into frazier and Ali's supposed past close friendship either.





You just made an excuse
Might broaden your horizons if you read the odd book Poop its how we grow as people to embrace new things, hear different views. Sure the author might have an agenda but by the same token you have a filter so should be able to weigh up whether their view holds merit.
Re Frazier, I think it is 6 of one half a dozen of the other. Ali probably did push it a bit to far but then his rivalry with Frazier lasted longer and Frazier is also thin skinned and after 30 years ought to be able to move on.
Re Terrell I would agree Ali's treatment of Terrell was cruel as was his treatment of Patterson, maybe he would have wanted to do the same to Frazier but didn't get the same opportunity.

BigMacFoster
09-21-2009, 01:02 PM
Might broaden your horizons if you read the odd book Poop its how we grow as people to embrace new things, hear different views. Sure the author might have an agenda but by the same token you have a filter so should be able to weigh up whether their view holds merit.
Re Frazier, I think it is 6 of one half a dozen of the other. Ali probably did push it a bit to far but then his rivalry with Frazier lasted longer and Frazier is also thin skinned and after 30 years ought to be able to move on.
Re Terrell I would agree Ali's treatment of Terrell was cruel as was his treatment of Patterson, maybe he would have wanted to do the same to Frazier but didn't get the same opportunity.


I have read just one boxing book - Nigel Benn's biography,It was interesting to learn of his backstory especially that of his older brothers death but I cannot remember much ater his stint in the army as it just didn't interest me.

I also read limited preview sections on Ken Norton and Earnie Shavers biographies,And didn't find their boxing stories very interesting either.

Perhaps because I know of their careers and the things they are telling me is nothing new,I am more in the pocket of simply watching fights rather than a documentary or book reviewing them for me.


It doesn't matter who is writing the book or what the topic is,Any author always has an agenda

sonnyboyx2
09-21-2009, 01:07 PM
I have read just one boxing book - Nigel Benn's biography,It was interesting to learn of his backstory especially that of his older brothers death but I cannot remember much ater his stint in the army as it just didn't interest me.

I also read limited preview sections on Ken Norton and Earnie Shavers biographies,And didn't find their boxing stories very interesting either.

Perhaps because I know of their careers and the things they are telling me is nothing new,I am more in the pocket of simply watching fights rather than a documentary or book reviewing them for me.


It doesn't matter who is writing the book or what the topic is,Any author always has an agenda
read the book `Dark Trade` which was Sports book of the year and the best boxing book ive ever read, it tells about Toney, Hamed, Benn, Tyson and more.. by a guy who lived with them

GJC
09-21-2009, 01:19 PM
I am more in the pocket of simply watching fights rather than a documentary or book reviewing them for me.

Well they are certainly not a substitute for watching fights but can be interesting and give some background, some are better than others Hugh Mcilveney is a good writer whereas as Burt Sugar I don't much care for.


It doesn't matter who is writing the book or what the topic is,Any author always has an agenda
An author always has an opinion for sure.
An agenda? Some maybe do but not all.

Ziggy Stardust
09-21-2009, 02:32 PM
An author always has an opinion for sure.
An agenda? Some maybe do but not all.

Well, we certainly know certain POSTERS have an agenda (MacPooperLimey for example) now don't we ;)

Poet

JAB5239
09-21-2009, 02:52 PM
Why would I want anyone to agree with me? I have my own opinions and thoughts and could care less who shares them.

I'm glad others don't share my opinions,Having someone else agree with an opinion doesn't make it anymore legitimate.

Goes towards the credibility of the topic, credibility you don't have around here.

JudeTheObscure
09-21-2009, 07:15 PM
He was good enough to take Ali to the limit, which means he was great.

Believe me, Frazier is/was underrated. But put him up against his era. He was essential, even when he lost. You couldn't have the epic Ali saga, or even George Frazier's redemption decades later, if Joe hadn't lost at pivotal moments.

Have had the privledge of seeing the great man himself at his now-closed gym in Philadelphia- can't say enough good things about "Smokin' Joe".

pacmanis1
09-22-2009, 01:55 AM
anyone who would deny fraizers greatness is an idiot. that left hook that took ali down in the first fight is what wet dreams are made of.

BigMacFoster
09-22-2009, 08:03 AM
He was good enough to take Ali to the limit, which means he was great.

Leon Spinks beat Ali alot more convincingly then frazier ever did,Where does Neon Leon's claim to greatness come in here?


anyone who would deny fraizers greatness is an idiot. that left hook that took ali down in the first fight is what wet dreams are made of.

Interesting,Have you actually seen any other footage of frazier that isn't linked to Ali or do you go along with what others say?




Goes towards the credibility of the topic, credibility you don't have around here.


The sad thing is,You actually believe what you claim,There is nothing legitimate about E-credit

sonnyboyx2
09-22-2009, 12:44 PM
Leon Spinks beat Ali alot more convincingly then frazier ever did,Where does Neon Leon's claim to greatness come in here?




Interesting,Have you actually seen any other footage of frazier that isn't linked to Ali or do you go along with what others say?







The sad thing is,You actually believe what you claim,There is nothing legitimate about E-credit
Spinks Never beat Muhammad Ali more convincingly than Joe Frazier did, Spinks beat an old Muhammad Ali by split-decision, Joe Frazier beat Ali by unanimous decision..

I have 21 fights of Frazier on DVD.. Frazier was Fighter of the Year 3 times and involved in Fight of the year 4 Times, it is not Fraziers 3 great fights with Muhammad Ali that make Frazier a great fighter, he also had great fights with Jerry Quarry (twice) Bonavena (twice) Ellis (twice) Mathis, Stander, Bugner, Machen and Bob Foster

JAB5239
09-22-2009, 03:05 PM
The sad thing is,You actually believe what you claim,There is nothing legitimate about E-credit

Yeah, yeah PissPooper I know. Just like all the boxing experts and historians who rank Frazier a great fighter are wrong, but you're right. You're a laughingstock around here, but go ahead, believe and argue whatever you want. Real fans know the truth.

JAB5239
09-22-2009, 03:18 PM
Spinks Never beat Muhammad Ali more convincingly than Joe Frazier did, Spinks beat an old Muhammad Ali by split-decision, Joe Frazier beat Ali by unanimous decision..

Ali was also in his 18th year as a professional and been thru wars.

PissPooper doesn't get that Frazier took on almost all the top fighters from his era and holds wins against all but Foreman. He doesn't want to give Joe credit for this, but wants to detract from his legacy because he never fought a green Lyle, who he had no reason or obligation to fight, or Mac Foster, who lost his chance at a title shot by getting beat up twice (Quarry and Ali) by fighters Frazier had already defeated. He doesn't understand those losses set Foster back in the ratings. PissPooper doesn't get a lot of things when he's trying to push his agenda on you.

BigMacFoster
09-23-2009, 11:26 AM
Spinks Never beat Muhammad Ali more convincingly than Joe Frazier did, Spinks beat an old Muhammad Ali by split-decision, Joe Frazier beat Ali by unanimous decision..

I have 21 fights of Frazier on DVD.. Frazier was Fighter of the Year 3 times and involved in Fight of the year 4 Times, it is not Fraziers 3 great fights with Muhammad Ali that make Frazier a great fighter, he also had great fights with Jerry Quarry (twice) Bonavena (twice) Ellis (twice) Mathis, Stander, Bugner, Machen and Bob Foster


Apparently since you have so many fights then I suggest you actually start watching them,because only a person who looks up the result on the internet and who hasn't watched Ali-Spinks 1 could look at the decision and honestly believe it was close enough for one judge to actually score the fight for Ali.


The fight wasn't remotely close,Ali at best won five rounds,He recieved the greatest whoopin of his career until he fought Larry Holmes.

Don't ever list Ron Stander as a legitimate win for a world champion either.




Ali was also in his 18th year as a professional and been thru wars.

PissPooper doesn't get that Frazier took on almost all the top fighters from his era and holds wins against all but Foreman. He doesn't want to give Joe credit for this, but wants to detract from his legacy because he never fought a green Lyle, who he had no reason or obligation to fight, or Mac Foster, who lost his chance at a title shot by getting beat up twice (Quarry and Ali) by fighters Frazier had already defeated. He doesn't understand those losses set Foster back in the ratings. PissPooper doesn't get a lot of things when he's trying to push his agenda on you.



What wars had Ali been in?

Don't mistake willingly taking punches as to going to war,Ali of the 1970's was a fat,lazy slob,Who used his ability to take a punch and wore out his opponents by encouraging them to punch themselves out against them

Punching Ali probably hurt his opponent more than it hurt Ali.


How on earth you can claim Frazier ever came close to taking on almost every top contender of his era is laughable.

Frazier in his prime was fighting just twice a year,A real great fighter(especially in the era of which he fought) doesn't limit their schedule like that,And it's not like he was fighting the two best heavyweights each year either.


Yes,Ron Lyle was never at any point a relevant factor,Not when he was the hottest thing in the division in 1972 nor in 1975 when he was challenging for a world title.

I also suggest you wipe the **** out of your eyes and actually read my posts rather than twist them to fit your own agenda.


I already stated(for the 100th time) foster wasn't in line for a title shot after being defeated by both Quarry and Ali,Yet you continually bring it up.

Oviously foster would have gotten a shot had beaten Quarry,Just like Ali recieved a rematch and a title shot when he beat Quarry.

TheGreatA
09-23-2009, 11:40 AM
What wars had Ali been in?

Don't mistake willingly taking punches as to going to war,Ali of the 1970's was a fat,lazy slob,Who used his ability to take a punch and wore out his opponents by encouraging them to punch themselves out against them

Punching Ali probably hurt his opponent more than it hurt Ali.

:thinking:

Bushidō
09-23-2009, 03:07 PM
great fighter, just wondering why he lose against foreman

Foreman is not that type of fighter you should move forward against. Usually Frazier could just bob and weeve his way in but Foreman could step back and only needed to barely touch you to hurt you. Frazier wasn't able to avoid Foremans blows. Foreman would beat him every time

Bushidō
09-23-2009, 03:12 PM
What wars had Ali been in?

Don't mistake willingly taking punches as to going to war,Ali of the 1970's was a fat,lazy slob,Who used his ability to take a punch and wore out his opponents by encouraging them to punch themselves out against them

Punching Ali probably hurt his opponent more than it hurt Ali.






I don't think anyone willingly takes punches like that

JAB5239
09-23-2009, 04:21 PM
What wars had Ali been in?

Gee, I don't know. Frazier 3x, Foreman, Norton 3x, Shavers gave a decent account and landed bombs.

Don't mistake willingly taking punches as to going to war,Ali of the 1970's was a fat,lazy slob,Who used his ability to take a punch and wore out his opponents by encouraging them to punch themselves out against them

Punching Ali probably hurt his opponent more than it hurt Ali.

Still playing the idiot I see. Giving and taking large amounts of punishment is going to war. There is no denying ali had been in wars.

How on earth you can claim Frazier ever came close to taking on almost every top contender of his era is laughable.

Do I really have to go thru his resume again? Almost every fighter in history has fights that were not made for one reason or another. Thjis doesn't mean they were avoiding or ducking them. You will never understand that because you don't want to.

Frazier in his prime was fighting just twice a year,A real great fighter(especially in the era of which he fought) doesn't limit their schedule like that,And it's not like he was fighting the two best heavyweights each year either.


I'll tell you what, why don't you list all the heavyweight from 1966 to 1974 who's resumes blow Fraziers out of the water and we'll take this part of the argument from there.

Yes,Ron Lyle was never at any point a relevant factor,Not when he was the hottest thing in the division in 1972 nor in 1975 when he was challenging for a world title.

Frazier wasn't champ in 75 and Lyle still green and never in a mandatory position in 72. END OF STORY.

I also suggest you wipe the **** out of your eyes and actually read my posts rather than twist them to fit your own agenda.

What ever I have in my eyes is a by-product from reading your posts. You're the only one with an agenda here, and everyone can see it.

I already stated(for the 100th time) foster wasn't in line for a title shot after being defeated by both Quarry and Ali,Yet you continually bring it up.

Oviously foster would have gotten a shot had beaten Quarry,Just like Ali recieved a rematch and a title shot when he beat Quarry.

Yet you continually say Frazier avoided, hence ducked Foster. Lol, talk about agenda's!

RightCross94
09-23-2009, 05:35 PM
Apparently since you have so many fights then I suggest you actually start watching them,because only a person who looks up the result on the internet and who hasn't watched Ali-Spinks 1 could look at the decision and honestly believe it was close enough for one judge to actually score the fight for Ali.


The fight wasn't remotely close,Ali at best won five rounds,He recieved the greatest whoopin of his career until he fought Larry Holmes.

Don't ever list Ron Stander as a legitimate win for a world champion either.








What wars had Ali been in?

Don't mistake willingly taking punches as to going to war,Ali of the 1970's was a fat,lazy slob,Who used his ability to take a punch and wore out his opponents by encouraging them to punch themselves out against them

Punching Ali probably hurt his opponent more than it hurt Ali.


How on earth you can claim Frazier ever came close to taking on almost every top contender of his era is laughable.

Frazier in his prime was fighting just twice a year,A real great fighter(especially in the era of which he fought) doesn't limit their schedule like that,And it's not like he was fighting the two best heavyweights each year either.


Yes,Ron Lyle was never at any point a relevant factor,Not when he was the hottest thing in the division in 1972 nor in 1975 when he was challenging for a world title.

I also suggest you wipe the **** out of your eyes and actually read my posts rather than twist them to fit your own agenda.


I already stated(for the 100th time) foster wasn't in line for a title shot after being defeated by both Quarry and Ali,Yet you continually bring it up.

Oviously foster would have gotten a shot had beaten Quarry,Just like Ali recieved a rematch and a title shot when he beat Quarry.

Go away. This section used to be a lot better before you came in with all your **** agendas and tired, boring, repetitive arguments. Can everyone in here please put him on ignore?

sonnyboyx2
09-24-2009, 04:26 AM
Apparently since you have so many fights then I suggest you actually start watching them,because only a person who looks up the result on the internet and who hasn't watched Ali-Spinks 1 could look at the decision and honestly believe it was close enough for one judge to actually score the fight for Ali.


The fight wasn't remotely close,Ali at best won five rounds,He recieved the greatest whoopin of his career until he fought Larry Holmes.

Don't ever list Ron Stander as a legitimate win for a world champion either.








What wars had Ali been in?

Don't mistake willingly taking punches as to going to war,Ali of the 1970's was a fat,lazy slob,Who used his ability to take a punch and wore out his opponents by encouraging them to punch themselves out against them

Punching Ali probably hurt his opponent more than it hurt Ali.


How on earth you can claim Frazier ever came close to taking on almost every top contender of his era is laughable.

Frazier in his prime was fighting just twice a year,A real great fighter(especially in the era of which he fought) doesn't limit their schedule like that,And it's not like he was fighting the two best heavyweights each year either.


Yes,Ron Lyle was never at any point a relevant factor,Not when he was the hottest thing in the division in 1972 nor in 1975 when he was challenging for a world title.

I also suggest you wipe the **** out of your eyes and actually read my posts rather than twist them to fit your own agenda.


I already stated(for the 100th time) foster wasn't in line for a title shot after being defeated by both Quarry and Ali,Yet you continually bring it up.

Oviously foster would have gotten a shot had beaten Quarry,Just like Ali recieved a rematch and a title shot when he beat Quarry.

The worst beating Muhammad Ali took in his career was from Joe Frazier March 8th 1971..

it is quite obvious to me that you have never seen the title fight Frazier vs Stander... Big Ron put up one hell of a performance and was brutally beaten to a pulp by the champion...Stander was a real tough cookie who was 23-1 coming into the fight with victories over Thad Spencer, Earnie Shavers and Jack O`Halloran.

Ron Lyle was never a contender when Joe Frazier was champion (67-72)..Lyle was being touted as the next Sonny Liston unto he was derailed by Jerry Quarry, Frazier v Quarry (1) was `Fight of the year` and a forgotten classic.

anyone trying to diminish the career of Smokin`Joe Frazier is deluding themselves... as for a Mac Foster v Frazier fight it would have been an early blow-out for Frazier

BigMacFoster
09-24-2009, 08:15 AM
The worst beating Muhammad Ali took in his career was from Joe Frazier March 8th 1971.

Never seen Ali-Spinks 1,Ali-Shavers and Ali-Holmes,Obviously.

it is quite obvious to me that you have never seen the title fight Frazier vs Stander... Big Ron put up one hell of a performance and was brutally beaten to a pulp by the champion...Stander was a real tough cookie who was 23-1 coming into the fight with victories over Thad Spencer, Earnie Shavers and Jack O`Halloran.

Stander was a chump,Spencer was a hot prospect in the mid 1960's,favoured to win the heavyweight tournament to crown a new champion and he came up short and faded into obscurity,Shavers was hot and cold throughout his entire career but was nothing when he fought Stander.

It was a mismatch,An easy payday.

Ron Lyle was never a contender when Joe Frazier was champion (67-72)..Lyle was being touted as the next Sonny Liston unto he was derailed by Jerry Quarry, Frazier v Quarry (1) was `Fight of the year` and a forgotten classic.


I can assure you he was,And I can assure you he was a contender for a long time even when frazier had lost the title and remained a relevant contender.

anyone trying to diminish the career of Smokin`Joe Frazier is deluding themselves... as for a Mac Foster v Frazier fight it would have been an early blow-out for Frazier

Perhaps if frazier had the same confidence as you,Then perhaps he would have fought and blown out Mac foster early on rather than do the same thing to a lightheavyweight/heavyweight flop in bob foster

Ziggy Stardust
09-24-2009, 10:47 AM
Go away. This section used to be a lot better before you came in with all your **** agendas and tired, boring, repetitive arguments. Can everyone in here please put him on ignore?

I've had him on ignore for quite a while now. And his banned PrinceMansPoophead account. And his alt Slimey Limey. And a number of other trolls that have slinked into this section over the past few months. I refuse to play their game: That ****e needs to stay over in NSB where it belongs.

Poet

Slimey Limey
09-24-2009, 04:18 PM
I've had him on ignore for quite a while now. And his banned PrinceMansPoophead account. And his alt Slimey Limey. And a number of other trolls that have slinked into this section over the past few months. I refuse to play their game: That ****e needs to stay over in NSB where it belongs.

Poet

You're the one always trolling and acting like a 12 year old who just discovered the internet you fugly fat cunt. And you don't even use the ignore function since you read all the posts. I've owned you time after time again which is the reason why you can't respond anymore.

Mugwump
09-24-2009, 08:31 PM
Great fighter who was unforgivably smeared an "Uncle Tom" by Ali. He NEVER deserved that.

JAB5239
09-24-2009, 09:52 PM
What If: Joe Frazier vs Ron Lyle?

What happens when the unstoppable force meets the unmoveable object? Let me re-phrase that. What would have happened if Joe Frazier and Ron Lyle would have hooked up in the mid 1970s?
It is too bad that this fight was never made. It was discussed on occasions but to the best of my knowledge no serious talks ever took place. What a shame. This would have been a thrill a minute battle for the fans. Each boxer had the tools and the style to offset the others skills.

Let***8217;s start with Ron Lyle. George Foreman showed everyone that a big, strong heavyweight with a decent jab and a solid uppercut could keep Joe from getting inside and also punish him at long range. Frazier was game to the core but Big George showed that Joe could be hurt. Lyle was no Willie Pep on his feet but he did have decent mobility for a man his size. He had a fairly quick jab with some pop to it. He threw a strong right hand but he needed room for it to gather steam. His best weapons on the inside if Frazier did get past his jab were a short left hook and a scorching uppercut. Also Ron was more then willing to stand in the trenches and swap body shots. He would have been quite a handful for Joe.
What would Frazier have to do to counter Ron***8217;s strategy? First and foremost he would just have to be Joe Frazier at his bobbing and weaving best. At times Lyle had a tendency to paw with his jab. This could have been a crucial mistake against the relentless Frazier. Joe was very adept at timing a jab and then either slipping under it or slipping to the side of it. The end result would be the same. Joe would now have his head on the opponent***8217;s chest and he would pummel the stomach, ribs and kidneys with savage purpose.
This is a fight that would probably see the majority of the action along the ropes. I could see Ron banging Joe a few times on the way in and then giving ground as Joe forces Ron back to the ropes. Lyle was a willing mixer with his back on the strands so I***8217;m sure there would have been some explosive exchanges. Although Ron had a tremendous uppercut I can not see him landing it consistantly as Joe would have weaved away from many of them. Also if Ron dipped his right shoulder to get more leverage on the uppercut, he would leave himself more open to Joe***8217;s numbing short left hooks to the head.
At times there would be a lot of clinching, mauling and wrestling. Especially when the two boxers were in mid-ring. Lyle was good at this and his size and strength would have given Joe trouble in these situations. Ron would attempt to stall at times but Joe would always be trying to work. Although it would not be pretty it would be enough to win Joe a few rounds just for effort and work rate.
The key for a Lyle victory would be to hurt Joe early like Foreman did. Hurt Joe and not let up. Frazier was a notorious slow starter but in most cases so was Lyle. So unless Ron timed one good one on Joe***8217;s chin, this bout would likely become a war of attrition. The longer the fight went, the better Frazier would get. You could never count Lyle out though because he could take you out of there with one punch and again Foreman had shown that Joe was a mere mortal. Lyle had a good chin as he was belted by Jerry Quarry but stayed on his feet. Earnie Shavers, the ***8221; Puncher Of The Century ***8221; had Ron down but could not keep him there. Eventually it was Shavers who was brutally knocked out. Lyle gamely got off the canvas in his classic war with George Foreman but later ended up falling as much from exhaustion as he did from Foreman***8217;s blows.
Let***8217;s say this fight takes place in 1974 after Joe***8217;s decision loss in his rematch with Muhammad Ali. Let***8217;s say Frazier-Quarry II takes place because logically there was a great demand for that fight due to Quarry***8217;s remarkable comeback. Since Lyle***8217;s loss to Jerry in 1973 he had re-established himself as a viable contender. Frazier-Lyle in the fall of 1974 would have been a very interesting and anticipated match up. Joe showed against Jerry that he was far from washed up. Could you have imagined Frazier-Lyle as the semi main event to Foreman-Ali in Zaire?
The outcome? With all things considered and with each boxer still having the bulk of their enormous talent I see Lyle taking an early lead. He may even score a flash knockdown against Joe. Frazier***8217;s hungry though. He feels he has the inside track for a match with the winner of Foreman-Ali. Little by little Joe works his way inside. His wrecking ball left hook is working overtime. Lyle refuses to be intimidated and he attempts to stand his ground landing his fair share of solid counters. As the rounds progress into the sixth, seventh and eighth Ron is spending more and more time with his back plastered against the ropes. The tenacity of Frazier is wearing Ron down. Still there no quit in Lyle. He is still landing enough hard shots to keep Joe honest and the fans at the edge of their seats.
Finally as the eleventh round comes along Joe breaks through hurts Lyle several times with the hook. Still the courageous Lyle refuses to fall although at one point it looked like the referee was considering stepping in. Joe tried to come out fast in the twelfth and follow up on his advantage but his attack gave way to fatigue. The final round saw both men throw desperate but almost harmless blows in a futile attempt to keep the bout from going to the scorecards. At the final bell both completely spent warriors fall in to each others arms and then go to their corners to await the judges verdict. The decision is unanimous, the winner is Smokin***8217; Joe Frazier.
Posted by Jim Amato on Aug 11, 2007 at 02:01 AM

BigMacFoster
09-25-2009, 12:34 AM
In The Ring: Doug Jones

Jim Amato

05.04 - What do you say about a fighter who was good enough to challenge for world title recognition in two different weight classes? What do you say about a fighter who holds knockout victories over former world champion and Hall Of Famers Carl "Bobo" Olsen and Bob Foster?


In all he met six world title holders. He also crossed gloves with top contenders like Eddie Machen, Pete Rademacher, Zora Folley, Billy Daniels, George Chuvalo,Thad Spencer and Boone Kirkman.


Impressive? You bet! Here's more. He gave "The Greatest" his toughest pre championship fight and to this day there are many who feel that the decision rendered that night was a travesty.


For some people timing is everything. Take Lennox Lewis and Roy Jones Jr. Talented boxers who were fortunate to come along when their respective divisions were void of serious challenges. Then take Jerry Quarry. A talented fighter who just happened to box in the greatest era of the heavyweight division. Go figure.


Doug Jones suffered the same fate as Quarry. Bad timing with a dash of bad luck equals Doug Jones.


Doug turned professional in 1958 and won his first nineteen fights facing light heavyweights as well as heavyweights. He established himself as a viable contender in 1960 with two wins over Von Clay and a six round KO of Bobo Olsen. 1961 wins over Rademacher and another over Von Clay led the unbeaten Jones into a match with the highly rated Machen. Doug lost the verdict but little stature.


In his next bout Doug met the classy Harold Johnson for the vacant World Light Heavyweight championship. The clever Johnson outboxed Doug in this 1962 contest and Jones dropped his next bout on points to Zora Folley. Showing the tenacity that molded his career Doug bounced back to score kayos over Bob Foster and Folley in a return match.


On March 13, 1963 Doug took on the unbeaten and highly touted Olympic Gold Medalist Cassius Clay in a sold out, jammed packed Madison Square Garden. It was the night that the roof almost caved in on young Cassius. Maybe he underestimated Doug. Who knows? The fact is that Doug hurt Cassius early and often. It didn't take Clay long to realize that he was in the fight of his life ! By the middle rounds Cassius was able to get his jab working. Only then did he climb back into the fight. The officials thought Clay did enough to win. The fans did not. Clay was booed without mercy and Jones who was short ended received the cheers of a winner.

This would be the highlight of Doug's respectable career. There were ups but also untimely downs like the night Doug was upset by the rugged Canadian Chuvalo. He resurged with five straight kayo wins over mediocre opposition and was awarded a shot at the World Boxing Association heavyweight title held by Ernie Terrell.


On June 28th, 1966 Doug failed on his date with destiny as the bigger, taller Terrell won a boring points verdict to retain his bogus title.Four months later Doug was beaten by up and coming prospect Thad Spencer. Then on February 21st, 1967 Doug became a stepping stone on Joe Frazier's march toward the heavyweight crown. You could see the end was near but Doug had one more surprise left. He traveled to Seattle and upset their unbeaten prospect Boone Kirkman via a badly cut eye. Boone wanted Doug again and got him. The faded Jones was no match in the return as Kirkman got sweet revenge and Doug got a ticket to retirement.


Doug lost ten of forty one fights. These are not Hall Of Fame numbers. It is doubtful that Doug will ever get in the Hall but it is a shame that his name is rarely mentioned when the top big men of the 60's are brought up. As time goes on his stand against young Cassius is almost forgotten. Doug deserves better then that.


Great fighter who was unforgivably smeared an "Uncle Tom" by Ali. He NEVER deserved that.


The mother of his youngest son didn't deserve to be thumped either.

Mugwump
09-25-2009, 04:29 AM
The mother of his youngest son didn't deserve to be thumped either.

Whose, Frazier's or Ali's? When it comes to the treatment of their women they both kind of blur into one indistinguishable mass.

mickey malone
09-25-2009, 06:26 AM
Whose, Frazier's or Ali's? When it comes to the treatment of their women they both kind of blur into one indistinguishable mass.
Nice to see Doug Jones getting 1000 words when 2 would do..

Fairly Average

He gave Clay an argument, and then lost to everyone that lost.. Even our Enry gave Folley a boxing lesson, & hurt Cassius a lot worse than Jones did..

BigMacFoster
09-25-2009, 07:51 AM
Whose, Frazier's or Ali's? When it comes to the treatment of their women they both kind of blur into one indistinguishable mass.

Frazier.



Nice to see Doug Jones getting 1000 words when 2 would do..

Fairly Average

He gave Clay an argument, and then lost to everyone that lost.. Even our Enry gave Folley a boxing lesson, & hurt Cassius a lot worse than Jones did..


You've been pissing up again,Haven't you Malone?

Mr Boxing9
09-26-2009, 02:08 PM
Damn in his best days Frazier was a great fighter. Most likely the best left hook of all time, heart of a lion, great at bobbing and weaving thus making him a hard target to hit and a great body puncher.

He also made 9 defences of his title, he also has a great resume of wins over the likes of Muhammad Ali, Bob Foster, Oscar Bonavena, Buster Mathis, Jimmy Ellis, and Jerry Quarry.

JAB5239
09-26-2009, 02:57 PM
Damn in his best days Frazier was a great fighter. Most likely the best left hook of all time, heart of a lion, great at bobbing and weaving thus making him a hard target to hit and a great body puncher.

He also made 9 defences of his title, he also has a great resume of wins over the likes of Muhammad Ali, Bob Foster, Oscar Bonavena, Buster Mathis, Jimmy Ellis, and Jerry Quarry.

Yeah, but go figure, he avoided Mac Foster and Ron Lyle. :lol1:

BigMacFoster
09-26-2009, 03:37 PM
It's a shame that he did too,Lyle vs Frazier would have been a fun fight while it lasted.

He also made 9 defences of his title, he also has a great resume of wins over the likes of Muhammad Ali, Bob Foster, Oscar Bonavena, Buster Mathis, Jimmy Ellis, and Jerry Quarry.

Correction,four defences of his title,He was never the legitimate world champion until he defeated Jimmy Ellis.

And listing Bob Foster as a great win is stupid.

Mr Boxing9
09-26-2009, 03:42 PM
It's a shame that he did too,Lyle vs Frazier would have been a fun fight while it lasted.



Correction,four defences of his title,He was never the legitimate world champion until he defeated Jimmy Ellis.

And listing Bob Foster as a great win is stupid.

He was still defending his NYSAC World heavyweight title against virtually all of the best Heavyweights around, so them defences should be counted.

Going into the Frazier fight, Foster was unbeaten for 5 years and has made 4 LHW title defences and cleared out the division. Alot of people thought he stood a good chance at Frazier.

Frazier just destroyed him and knocked him out. Not a good win? :thinking: