Who would you give this award to?

I vote for Big George and his 68 knockouts.

Please feel free to argue about this topic untill you are blue in the face.

Who would you give this award to?

I vote for Big George and his 68 knockouts.


....I vote for Tommy Morrison

Rocky
Tyson
Foreman
no specific order
any of them three could knock you out cold
with one single punch

didnt ali and holems say cooney is the hardest puncher they fought? by that id would have to say

cooney
foreman
tyson
shavers

Ali never fought Cooney.

I dont think he really "belongs" on the poll. He hit hard, but not that hard.

ya my bad ali fought cooper who floored his ass real nice

cooney KO'd ron lyle in 1 and jimmy young in 4, foreman took 5 for lyle and lost to young (ya i know foreman KO'd cooney in 2 but that isnt the point)

didnt ali and holems say cooney is the hardest puncher they fought? by that id would have to say

cooney
foreman
tyson
shavers

The only thing Cooney was hard at hitting was the canvas...In the three (3) biggest fights of his 'over-rated' career he was Ko'd by Holmes, Foreman and Spinks..

I voted for Shavers..........

being TKO'd has nothing to do with how hard u hit lmao

I voted for Shavers.

Holmes DID NOT say Cooney was the hardest hitter he ever faced. He gives that honor to Shavers.
Muhammad Ali says the same thing....

As for Cooney......he couldn't do much, except punch. He could punch like a mother****er.

Cooney? 'the hardest puncher?' They say, never say never, I'm saying never. Lyle, Young and Norton were almost dead when they fought Cooney. He was susposed to knock out the 'hand picked' bums in devestating fashion and he did.

But in the three (3) biggest fights of his career where was the power? I rest my case.

guess i was wrong then :D

guess i was wrong then :D

wrong? Nah....It's good for us to engage in healthy debate.

i was thinking of a post i read a while ago but couldnt quite remeber it, i got it now cooney had nothign to do with it :D wonder why i had him on my mind as a big puncher hmmm, anyway

foremean
shavers
tyson

i was thinking of a post i read a while ago but couldnt quite remeber it, i got it now cooney had nothign to do with it :D wonder why i had him on my mind as a big puncher hmmm, anyway

foremean
shavers
tyson

Big punchers, all three!!

I vote for Wladimir Klitschko or Corrie Sanders.

comon guys , how could you forget about patrick charpentier ?

hands down cris byrd lol

Cooney? You gotta be kidding! :D

Mike Tyson have that one crushing uppercut but overall power I will go with Foreman!

If we talk about the young new prospect I'm going with Sam Peter. He impressed me so far.

Who do you think are the new young guns?

Shaver hands down,he made many HW (and some legends) asmit and respect his great power

I know he was never the best HW, but man Tua packs a punch

When it comes to this question, I always pick Foreman. Even his jab could wobble strong opponents, and when he hits somebody flush, it was REALLY "lights out" :eek: :D . - Tyson punches were harder and nearly as effective as George´s.

I picked Shavers based on what his opponents have said. Foreman probably second.

Shaver hands down,he made many HW (and some legends) asmit and respect his great power

I'm down with Shavers! He made his point.

I like your quote from Rowdy pipper. Reminds me the time when a cloth line, a leg drop or a elbow drop could be a finishing move!

The Acorn no doubt. Holmes says he still feels that Shavers right hand. Too bad he didn't have much of a chin himself.

I voted for Shavers. I think Foreman is a close 2nd.

I picked Mike Tyson but I think you could definitley argue Foreman, Shavers and Liston.

:biggthump Ernie Shavers :banana: Jack Dempsey :banana: George Foreman :boxing:

Tommy Morrison hit pretty hard, Razor Ruddock said he hit harder than Mike Tyson. I think Marciano was the hardest hitter, while speed and sharpness go's to Tyson.

Don't count out Vitali.

Now, I'm trying to ride his sack here, but I was just recalling his fight with Danny Williams and Kirk Johnson, and I seem to recall Vitali landing that left jab/hook of his (especially on Williams) and moving the guy around the ring with it.

Vitali certainly isnt the hardest of the lot you mentioned, but he deserves an honorable mention.

didnt danny say tyson hit harder but vitali was more accurate. :boxing:

udoubtedly he has good power but i dont think he is a one punch demoltion man. He is a big stong guy with undoubtedly heavy hands, god knows how he would be if he didnt arm punch so much. Friggin scary.
but he does tend to arm punch which does reduce the power, having said that he is big and mean enough to carry KO power I just dont think he is up there with the shavers / foremans.

its difficult to tell I mean no one mentions Joe Fraziers left hook which is probably the most devastating left of any heavyweight of recent memory.

Lennox's overhand right takes some beating , shavers uppercut, foremans right hook, I think you have to look at their honey punches and decipher what would exert the most power.

i tend to love those fantasy boxer type questions you know, where ya take the skills from your fave fighters and make a demigod.

always entertaining. :boxing:

well maybe im biased im a big len fan the combination he ko'd botha with was a thing of beauty as was the big right that did for rahman.

I voted for Lewis. Lennox in my opinion was the hardest punching heavyweight of all time. His record doesn`t reflect it because he lacked intentions behind the punches to make it consistant. But if he threw freely, then yes lennox hit harder than anyone!

i think thats why a lot of people disliked him, they know he has the tools but was just reluctant sometimes to let it go.
unless he just worked out he weas gonna dominate either way like against Botha.
Against Golata he just intimidated him from the off and owned him bad once the bell went. Wokring out his fragile pysche.

pretty amazing really, a real thinking fighter, as is hopkins.

Goerge Foreman is number one on my list, number two will be David Tua. That guy got a rocking left hook, who can make his opponent to sleep. Ask Johnny Ruiz for that, he experienced with it. :)

I voted for Lewis. Lennox in my opinion was the hardest punching heavyweight of all time. His record doesn`t reflect it because he lacked intentions behind the punches to make it consistant. But if he threw freely, then yes lennox hit harder than anyone!


this is why i hate lennox lewis


so kimmy vitali klitshko also has the best chin ever right?

Tyson has to be up there , did you know the reason golata quit against tyson was because tyson broke golatas back ie his vertebrae bones , ruptured goatas disks , cause golata internal bleeding and broke several bones in his face , tyson might not of hit as hard as foreman or shavers but tysons punches did more damage and thats all that counts really .

What about joe Louis?

I would have to agree with rightuppercut although I would favor Tyson a little more than the others. Foreman was just flat out a big dude.

tyson had the most power in his prime, especially because he was so fast then that guys didnt see it coming, just devastating

those who voted for anyone except foreman = clueless newcomers to the sport

those who voted for tyson = asshat newbies


those who voted for foreman = smart people.

those who voted for anyone except foreman = clueless newcomers to the sport

those who voted for tyson = asshat newbies


those who voted for foreman = smart people.

Well said, foreman is the man.

Wlad Klit deserves honorable mention imo.

I'm down with Shavers! He made his point.

I like your quote from Rowdy pipper. Reminds me the time when a cloth line, a leg drop or a elbow drop could be a finishing move!

dude is that your monkey?

i so ****ing want a monkey

didnt danny say tyson hit harder but vitali was more accurate. :boxing:
didnt Roach say Wladimir hit harder but Tyson is more explosive. :boxing:

I voted for Big George Foreman. I think it was Shannon Briggs that said "He hit me so hard I thought I saw the messiah"

marciano

joe louis

shavers

foreman

dude is that your monkey?

i so ****ing want a monkey

Buddy, you don't know what you're asking for. They are mean, nasty, filthy little creatures. They masturbate in front of dinner guests, sling **** everywhere (literally, and on aforementioned dinner guests), and bite like a 4th ex-wife on a 3 day coke binge when you're 90 days behind on alimony.


Trust me, pal, you do NOT want a monkey in your house. Just shoot yourself in the leg with a 20mm cannon. THe pain will be less, and the agony will be over far quicker (monkeys can live for many years, and NOBODY wants a used ****ing monkey).

George Foreman

Buddy, you don't know what you're asking for. They are mean, nasty, filthy little creatures. They masturbate in front of dinner guests, sling **** everywhere (literally, and on aforementioned dinner guests), and bite like a 4th ex-wife on a 3 day coke binge when you're 90 days behind on alimony.


Trust me, pal, you do NOT want a monkey in your house. Just shoot yourself in the leg with a 20mm cannon. THe pain will be less, and the agony will be over far quicker (monkeys can live for many years, and NOBODY wants a used ****ing monkey).

LOL That reminds me of Hunter S. Thompson going to Circus Circus saying "I want that Goddamn ape!" Yeah how would you get rid of the ****ers? You cant kill em. You would do more time than if you just killed your "4th Ex wife"

Buddy, you don't know what you're asking for. They are mean, nasty, filthy little creatures. They masturbate in front of dinner guests, sling **** everywhere (literally, and on aforementioned dinner guests), and bite like a 4th ex-wife on a 3 day coke binge when you're 90 days behind on alimony.


Trust me, pal, you do NOT want a monkey in your house. Just shoot yourself in the leg with a 20mm cannon. THe pain will be less, and the agony will be over far quicker (monkeys can live for many years, and NOBODY wants a used ****ing monkey).



**** yeah, the damn thign will bite your nuts off like that poor little old man down in cali...

but then again...

" animals bite. people bite. mike tyson bites. so what?"

Rocky Marciano, for sure, nobody put as much into their punches like Marciano did,

http://www.cnnsi.com/features/1998/holyfield/garden/images/77pic.jpg

Look what Ali did after tasting a Shaver's right hand...

dude is that your monkey?

i so ****ing want a monkey

That's Dane Cook (stand up comedian) with a monkey. He did a joke one time he said "I want a monkey, but not a nice monkey, a bad monkey! A little bastard monkey that I could dress to fight, give him an armor and a little sword and have fight with him in the house."

And that's one of my dream too! If you want to see Dane Cook's videos go to danecook.com

David Tua is the hardest puncher of the heavy weight class

Gotta go with Shavers on the 1 punch, but with Tyson it was the accmulation of punches that did in most of his victims. As for Tua or Peters, they first must hit an ironed chin boxer before we can put them in with the above legends.

its Foreman..cmon now..dude was like 80yrs old ..and he still knocked out Moorer..his power was..frightening..ask Frazier..how much power he packed

didnt ali and holems say cooney is the hardest puncher they fought? by that id would have to say

cooney
foreman
tyson
shavers

Ali never fought Cooney, you may be thinking about Shavers which they both fought.

My picks are, in no particular order:
Foreman
Shavers
Frasier
Ali (yes,he did have a hard punch but didn't utilize it as much as he should have)
Tyson

Ali as one of the hardest hitters of all time? I can name many, many HW champions such as Schmeling and Ingemar Johansson who hit much harder.

Ali is actually in the lower half of the HW champion rankings for punching power. His power is average for a heavyweight but below average for a heavyweight champion.

The only thing Cooney was hard at hitting was the canvas...In the three (3) biggest fights of his 'over-rated' career he was Ko'd by Holmes, Foreman and Spinks..


I see your point, but the thread is about punching power, not anyone's career overall.

dude is that your monkey?

i so ****ing want a monkey

hahahaha ****ing funny

Ali caught guys coming in, and they still got up. He usually had to make the ref stop it by landing alot of shots. Frazier had a decent chin, but not great by any stretch. In the last of their fights, Ali landed an all-out, short left hook and Frazier wasn't even dazed. Toward the end of their fight, Ali was landing big right hands, leaning into them, and Frazier wouldn't go down. Bonavena dropped Frazier when he was a youngster, and Foreman dropped him repeatedly. To be fair, Ali had calcium deposits in his hands which for most of his career kept him from punching as hard as he could. Pretty much everyone in the poll used their power effectively through proper form, while Foreman actually worked against himself, compromising his punching power, and still managed to get all those KOs lol. I vote for Foreman.

Had to be Foreman. Guys he hit stayed hit. They didnt get up.

I think Tyson is the hardest hitter, as untrendy that might be on this thread. He is leading in the poll. Look how many knockouts Tyson has in the first round alone. He has to have like 20 knockouts just in the first round and like of his what 48 KO like 39 of them are inside 3 rounds. Hardly anybody even to this day goes past 3 rounds with Tyson. Only Mitch Green, Razor Ruddock, Tony Tucker and a handfull of other have gone the distance with Tyson in over 50 fights. Look how he dropped Larry Holmes and Larry Holmes had a good chin and he was doing good in that fight with Tyson. But Tyson KO'd him in brutal fashion in round 5. Larry was out cold Roy Jones Jr style by the end of round 5. He tried to hang in but he just ended up getting hurt worse.

i think it has to be either foreman or shavers, the consenus from both ali and holmes should be enough evidence to settle the score of who the two hardest hitters where, holmes never mentioned tyson,tyson hit hard but not as hard as shavers or foreman, it was tyson's accuracy and combination punching that made him so devastating, for one punch power i would go with shavers, with foreman close behind.

Nah, I think Tyson's power was definately a factor, but Holmes wanted to make himself look better by saying someone who he actually won against was a harder puncher. After Tyson caught him, Holmes couldn't find any ground to stand on.

Buddy, you don't know what you're asking for. They are mean, nasty, filthy little creatures. They masturbate in front of dinner guests, sling **** everywhere (literally, and on aforementioned dinner guests), and bite like a 4th ex-wife on a 3 day coke binge when you're 90 days behind on alimony.


Trust me, pal, you do NOT want a monkey in your house. Just shoot yourself in the leg with a 20mm cannon. THe pain will be less, and the agony will be over far quicker (monkeys can live for many years, and NOBODY wants a used ****ing monkey).


ROFL!! OMG, dude, that's got to be the funniest post I have ever read on a message board. Have some Karma, man!

Tyson blitzed Holmes with speed and accuracy. That was always Tyson's thing. I have one of his early fights and he comments that he is just too quick and accurate for his opponents. He mentions nothing about power, and this was a frank assessment of himself. His power is good but nothing extraordinary. If you gave Hasim Rahman that kind of speed and accuracy, he would produce similar results.

The guy can punch but you can say the same for Ruddock, Bruno, Witherspoon, and a slew of other fighters from his era. Strip away Tyson's speed and accuracy and his KO percent would not be over 60%.

i will go for george foremans grill

Tyson blitzed Holmes with speed and accuracy. That was always Tyson's thing. I have one of his early fights and he comments that he is just too quick and accurate for his opponents. He mentions nothing about power, and this was a frank assessment of himself. His power is good but nothing extraordinary. If you gave Hasim Rahman that kind of speed and accuracy, he would produce similar results.

The guy can punch but you can say the same for Ruddock, Bruno, Witherspoon, and a slew of other fighters from his era. Strip away Tyson's speed and accuracy and his KO percent would not be over 60%.

Look how Tyson pounds the body though. Is that about accuracy? IN alot of early fights before he wore the black trunks he used to knock guys out with thuding body shots in the first round. Bonecracking body punching like Tyson used to have does not have alot to do with accurcy or timing.

Rocky Marciano, for sure, nobody put as much into their punches like Marciano did,


I dont want to sound like an ass or anything, but if that's you in your sig's gif, popping a watermelon with a punch isnt much to brag about. Now I could be wrong, and you may punch like a frickin mule kicks, but if so, find a better gif that demonstrates your power better.

No disrespect intended.

He would pound the body, but he'd always come upstairs and nail them flush on the chin. The body punching was more to bring their guard down then to break them down as Joe Frazier would do.

Tyson was a hard bodypuncher but not quite at the level of Louis, Marciano, or Dempsey. I don't recall Tyson ever breaking a man's ribs in a fight (a few times in sparring perhaps) but Dempsey did this all the time. Except Dempsey only weighed 185 lbs.

All of the monsterous punchers have stories associated with them (usually backed up by photos and medical records) of their breaking of opponents bones. Tyson has never really inflicted that kind of damage to a top opponent in a fight. I have also never seen Tyson lay a guy out for 10 minutes like Joe Louis would.

Don't get me wrong, Tyson could kill you if you hit you barefisted but so could Rahman, Bonecrusher Smith, Wladimir Klitscho, etc. Tyson's power is good but nothing the sport hadn't seen previously and nothing the sport won't see again.

Does anybody else recall this besides me?
I remember watching a Tyson fight during his prime years and the announcer made the comment that his punches even SOUNDED harder than anybody elses. I made a point of paying attention and he was right...it was definetly something you could pick up on. I have heard since that it was more a cummilative(sp?) effect that made him dangerous but I believe he hit pretty damned hard.

Most fighters that I have read or heard have a comment seem to consistantly name two guys:
Shavers and Big George.

He would pound the body, but he'd always come upstairs and nail them flush on the chin. The body punching was more to bring their guard down then to break them down as Joe Frazier would do.

Tyson was a hard bodypuncher but not quite at the level of Louis, Marciano, or Dempsey. I don't recall Tyson ever breaking a man's ribs in a fight (a few times in sparring perhaps) but Dempsey did this all the time. Except Dempsey only weighed 185 lbs.

All of the monsterous punchers have stories associated with them (usually backed up by photos and medical records) of their breaking of opponents bones. Tyson has never really inflicted that kind of damage to a top opponent in a fight. I have also never seen Tyson lay a guy out for 10 minutes like Joe Louis would.

Don't get me wrong, Tyson could kill you if you hit you barefisted but so could Rahman, Bonecrusher Smith, Wladimir Klitscho, etc. Tyson's power is good but nothing the sport hadn't seen previously and nothing the sport won't see again.

Yeah but Dempsey used 4 oz gloves. If Tyson used 4 oz gloves he would probably break every opponents ribs too.

Good point McKay!

It's possible, but that's just speculation. They all wore the same sized gloves and yet no one else was capable of inflicting the kind of damage that Dempsey did.

It's possible, but that's just speculation. They all wore the same sized gloves and yet no one else was capable of inflicting the kind of damage that Dempsey did.

They all wore the same sized gloves and nobody knocked everybody out cold in the first second and 3rd round like Tyson did.

Right, because Tyson was incredibly quick and skilled and head and shoulders above the rest of his era in talent. And the guys he fought, except for a handful, were all rubbish. Even that handful was pretty mediocre.

Dempsey demolishing a skilled and dangerous giant like Fred Fulton in 14 seconds is still more impressive than any of Tyson's one round blowouts over intimidated light heavyweights or all around garbage club fighters.

i think that is tyson's downfall as far as his legacy goes, the boxers he faced were just not that good, and the ones who did have some talent were not mentally tough enough [bruno for example], you can ony judge how good a boxers legacy is by the fighters he faced and beat, and most of the guys tyson beat were just not that good.

All probably true but he lit a fire and ignited the division again. I bonded with my father watching those fights ...it was really something special.

Tyson really brought some of the drama and excitement of the old timers back to heavyweight boxing but he lacked the mentality and discipline to keep himself at that level.

It's definitely something worth mourning but Mike has only himself to blame, as has been repeated over and over again. We can't blame the death of Cus. Joe Louis had an even stronger bond with Jack Blackburn but you didn't see him going to pieces when his mentor died.

I really think rocky gets too much credit for his power. He only fought 8 fighters over 200lbs. 7 where bums. Louis was old. 213lbs. everyone else was around 175-188. rocky would have been killed by sonny, frazier, ali, foreman, lyle, shavers, and norton. he had good power for a lightheavy, because that all he fought.

Yeah but Dempsey used 4 oz gloves. If Tyson used 4 oz gloves he would probably break every opponents ribs too.

excellent point

I think we are all forgeting Max Baer. Baer killed 2 people in the ring and knocked a real live bull (the actual animal) out cold w/ one punch. Baer's right hand was devistating. It came from when he was a teenager and he used to kill cattle w/ a sledgehammer. Thats why if you watch the old Baer fights he ****s his right hand upward like he swinging a hammer.

Max Baer is thee most powerful punching heavyweight in boxing history

Are you kinding me. You have a discussion about who the hardest hitting heavyweight and no one says Max Baer. This is the man that killed two men in the ring. He destroyed Max Schmeling as well as other fighters.Go MAx go

Max Baer
Sex: Male
Nationality: US American
Alias: Livermore Larupper
Birth Name: Maximillian Adelbert Baer
Hometown: Livermore, CA
Birthplace: Omaha, NE
Division: Heavyweight
Date of Birth: 1909-02-11
Date of Death: 1959-11-21
Age at Death: 50
Reach: 81in
Stance: Orthodox
Height: 6' 2½
Trainer: Mike Cantwell
Manager: Ancil Hoffman
W 71 (53 ko's) | L 13 | D 0 | Total 84

true, he was a hard man , but Joe Louis was EVEN harder, KO'd Max in 4. in addition, Max was 12 pound heavier, just about.

shavers then tyson then foreman

Foreman fo' shizzle. That guy could rock your world with a jab. Tyson has power but it hasen't done much for him latley. I'd say foreman has proven his strength by maintaining that level of punching power over such a long period of time.

naw i think shavers for sure then tyson foreman tie.. tie go to the runner and tyson speed was sick

Baer was a beast when he had his head screwed on straight, which wasn't very often. He had one of the all time hardest right hands, a great chin, and a lot of stamina for a guy his size as well. If his career had panned out differently (read: if he never killed either of those men and never lost his killer instinct), we would be speaking of him in the same breath as Louis, Ali, Dempsey, and Marciano.

The craziest thing was that he never really even learned a good defense or developed boxing skills. He was like a George Foreman with excellent stamina and perhaps even a better chin.

Tyson took Foreman's title on this one.

You might need to define "hardest punching" here. Foreman I believe was probably stronger than any on the list, but he was slow. Mike on the other hand was strong and fast. With more speed behind the punches, I believe mike's punch would hurt more than foreman's.

Foreman was a bull, but mike was a bullet train

Obviously I would have voted for George, but it's closed. :) :boxing:

Tyson was a harder puncher than Foreman and Shavers? Course he was.

laws of physics say that it has to be iron mike

laws of physics say that it has to be iron mike
How so...?

foreman was strong but low if you take into account speed,distance,time andwork out the impact power of a punch iron mike would win hands down(excuse the pun)

for arguements sake if you look at what foreman did to ali during the rope a dope tactic I really couldnt se Ali taking the same amount of punches from Iron mike as hi head would have came off first

foreman was strong but low if you take into account speed,distance,time andwork out the impact power of a punch iron mike would win hands down(excuse the pun)

for arguements sake if you look at what foreman did to ali during the rope a dope tactic I really couldnt se Ali taking the same amount of punches from Iron mike as hi head would have came off firstYeah, but that would be due to height, reach and so on.

I don't even think Tyson's THAT hard a puncher. Top 5% of all time? Sure... but you look at Big Len and what he did to Tyson opponents (admittedly in a later stage of his career) and he went through them much quicker.

yep but LL would use his jab (which was very effective)then by the time he would ko them they were usually knackered but Tyson on the other hand would ko opponents as soon as a bomb landed(most of the time anyway)

when you watch him against berbick even the commentators were saying that he hits so hard his punches even sound different than other fighters.
I believe that a younger Tyson would have disposed of LL with relative ease but I suppose that one has been debated to death as every boxing board I know has been down that road lol.

yep but LL would use his jab (which was very effective)then by the time he would ko them they were usually knackered but Tyson on the other hand would ko opponents as soon as a bomb landed(most of the time anyway)

when you watch him against berbick even the commentators were saying that he hits so hard his punches even sound different than other fighters.
I believe that a younger Tyson would have disposed of LL with relative ease but I suppose that one has been debated to death as every boxing board I know has been down that road lol.
To be fair, LL wasn't even on the scene when they were saying that about Tyson... his KO against Rahman was like a sonic boom.

Whether Ty would have done the job or not I do think LL probably hit harder. I know he was cautious, but he could dish it when he wanted.

what about jimmy thunder? can't believe shavers is not top.

"Iron" Mike

what about jimmy thunder? can't believe shavers is not top.

Jimmy Thunder? lol

But seriously, no way Tyson hit harder than big George.

foreman was strong but low if you take into account speed,distance,time andwork out the impact power of a punch iron mike would win hands down(excuse the pun)

for arguements sake if you look at what foreman did to ali during the rope a dope tactic I really couldnt se Ali taking the same amount of punches from Iron mike as hi head would have came off first

Nobody could have imagined Ali taking all that punishment from George either, at the time. George didn't really land much of anything to the head, and I don't think Tyson would either. The thing with George is, in most of his fights, he could have hit much harder than he did, had his punches been executed properly.

true, but if we're dealing with "what if"s, then tyson would still be undefeated and obviously still the baddest man on the planet IF he wasn't nutty as my turds after christmas

Its the way he throws them with his huge muscle laden arm thats totally ripped to the max and although he was a heavyweight his speed was supreme
and I would prefer a hook from george than one from tyson.

Im not sure if these two have been mentioned yet, they are not the hardest punchers of all time, but maybe the most underrated of late. Ray Mercer said in his interview that Morrison hit harder than anyone he had faced. Rahman said in an interview a few years back, after W. Klitschko was beaten, that Sanders hits a lot harder than anyone else hes been hit by.

Overall id say Louis. His punches seemed so much sharper and more accurate, just deadly