First of all I really like Oscar, but I do believe he is overated. But I've never questioned his heart and I would never believe that he would take a dive. But it has to make you wonder when you see him and Bernard that close. I remember him giving a interview right before the fight and it seemed like he had Hopkins right up there with Vargas on the hate meter saying that "I've never wanted to beat a guy so bad and I just hate the way he acts and that he dosent carry hiself with enough class to be a champ". He even said that his wife doesnt like him and calls him ugly. Could you picture DeLahoya saying to Bernard that "you know Bernard you could make alot of money with having the DeLahoya name behind you" and Hopkins saying the only way that I would do it if you let me fight you first. DeLahoya probally said no to this, but then got to thinking how much money he could get managing Bernard. Also he would get 30 million for a fight just to take a dive, and he would recieve alot of money for putting together Hopkins-Trinadad, and he could also fight the winner and get even more mone especially if it's Hopkins. I remember first DeLahoha would never talk about Hopkins or that Bernard would be his last fight but know time soon. He was suppose to fight Tito, or if not him, than a rematch with Shane, Vargas, Forrest, or Winky. Then all of a sudden he's moving up to Middelweight to fight Bernard. First he said Middelwieght was to big for him and that he would only fight at 154 or a catch weight. Look at how soon it is after the fight. Most fighters wouldnt even speak to eachother that soon. Bernards not young and dumb. He's been ****ed out of money before. No way is he just going to jump in a contract. Do you know how long it takes to get a contract finalized. Do you know how much bull**** you have to go through, and they already got a contract signed and making annoucements this soon, and are at the fights all buddy buddy. Does it look like to you that these guys ever didnt like eachother. Now lets go to the fight. We seen what Hopkins did to Joppy, and DeLahoya doesnt have Tito's power but he chooses to box him from the outside. Remember the whole fight how everyone was wondering why Bernard did not try to force his size, strength, and will on DeLahoya. He didnt even land any solid punches to the end of the fight. Then we all know how it ended. A body punch that looked like it couldnt even break a paper bag. Also dont forget that some people had Oscar winning at the time of the stoppage. Can you picture Oscar planning something telling Bernard "weve been boxing for a long time. We know how to fix a fight with out making it look fake. Just stay on the outside and box me. Let me win some rounds and make it look like I was winning and then you knock me out with a body shot. You cant hit me in the face because it's hard to look real without really knocking me out. But if you do it in the body we could just say you hit me in the right spot. Nobody will question us because Gatti just KO Dorin with a body shot". Didnt it look kind of strange how he went down and stayed down punching the ground and then jumped up as soon as it hit the 10 count. He was punching the ground like damn man. I cant get up. Dorin didnt do that. Virgil Hill didnt do that when Roy Jones hit him. If it's a real punishing body shot it hurts to much to do that ****. It looked kind of fake to me, but I let it go until I seen them last night and all I'm saying is it makes you wonder

If that was the case Oscar De La Hoya wasting all tfighting those years fighting the likes of Quartey, Trinidad and Mosley. Oscar wouldn`t take a dive and even more so Hopkins would never risk damaging his reputation by being involved in such a thing.

NO. People need to stop with their conspiracy theories, this is part of what's wrong with boxing. If you've never been hit in the kidney or aroudn that area, then you wouldn't know what he's talking about (De la Hoya).

why would he take a dive? Winning would be more profitable to oscar. The most i would agree to is that he would have found a way to get up if he thought he could win the fight. He probably just said "forget it!" but i think he did get caught with a legit body shot, it was more to the back area than the ribs, try tapping your self there and see how it feels. then imagine Benard catching you there witha nice "jump in" left hook.

Yeah, and the fight was still there on the scorecards, Hopkins was a little bit ahead but it wasn`t over in the scoring for Oscar. He must hve known that, this is Oscar De La Hoya, he gets verdicts. He must have tired to get up, he just couldn`t!

I've given the same answer in other post w/ the same question and NO I don't think Oscar took a dive, he just plain and simply didn't have the fight in him. Could he have gotten up to beat the count? I think so, but when you have 30 million and possibly more waiting for you in the stretched limo, I'd say the hell with it, take my money and run to the stars!

oscar is my man, but i i belived ben would knock him out, oscar actually did better than i thought, ben was just tooooooo strong for him.

You can call oscar alot of things, but a quitter? NO WAY!! The guy has taken on the best competition for his whole career and given it his best each time around. He simply got caught with a great bodyshot by Hopkins.

Oscar has been through too much in his career to take a dive for a partnership.... This would get interesting though if Oscar and Bernard fought again, with both of them promoting the fight they could be in for the biggest pay day in boxing history.

The fact of the matter is that Hopkins outweighed DLH by 15 lbs.

I said at the start of the post that I dont believe he did. But I had to ask

A "dive" insinuates that Oscar bailed for extra cash.

I don't see it that way....I think he bailed out of self-preservation.
He knew he was about to start getting overwhelmed, & put his well-being before the entertainment of the fans who just shelled out big bucks.

this is ridiculous!

For the last time...well, maybe not...NO!!! He simply can't handle Hopkins on Hopkins' own turf, the middleweight. And so now DLH is going back down to the walterweight just for that reason, period.

Oscar quit in this fight and it was obvious!!! He was starting to get overwhelmed and didn't want to take a beating. The funny thing is that he wasn't doing that bad. He just feered getting beat up.

Last time ?

He took the flimsiest body punch I've seen & rolled around like he was hit with a baseball bat.

Don't give me the weight issue, either. The punch BOUNCED off of his side. If it was a size issue, the punch should have SUNK into him, or RATTLED his body. It did neither.

The man took his money & ran with it.

I have been watching boxing for 23 years, & I rate that KO as one of the most questionable I've ever seen.

Last time ?

He took the flimsiest body punch I've seen & rolled around like he was hit with a baseball bat.

Don't give me the weight issue, either. The punch BOUNCED off of his side. If it was a size issue, the punch should have SUNK into him, or RATTLED his body. It did neither.

The man took his money & ran with it.

I have been watching boxing for 23 years, & I rate that KO as one of the most questionable I've ever seen.


Totally agree!!! The look on his face like he was in so much agony was just laughable!!!

Last time ?

He took the flimsiest body punch I've seen & rolled around like he was hit with a baseball bat.

Don't give me the weight issue, either. The punch BOUNCED off of his side. If it was a size issue, the punch should have SUNK into him, or RATTLED his body. It did neither.

The man took his money & ran with it.

I have been watching boxing for 23 years, & I rate that KO as one of the most questionable I've ever seen.

Jab, you have the best frame of reference on this site there is no questioning that but we have had this argument before,how the hell do you know what that body punch did? You said you don't want to hear the weight issue...why not? You/me/joe/jimmy/johnny...no one knows what the body punches effect was...you are certainly entitled to your opinion but that is all it is, an opinion. You speak about that body punch like it is a known fact, like you yourself took the punch from Bhop...If I told you that during the Gatti/Ward 1 that the 8th round was the greatest round in the history of the sport, you would come back and tell me, ah scap you must be talking about the 9th round-you would be right....thats a fact, or if I said that Lennox Lewis had Oliver McCall in trouble in round 1 of their first fight and McCall got lucky with his overhand right in the second...you would say, uh no scap McCall was never in trouble in that fight, what the hell are u talking about...again you would be right with the facts.

It is obvious that you have a bit of a thing for Oscar, however you can continue to talk all you want about him quitting/about him talking a punch that couldn't have hurt a featherweight or whatever....you don't know (neither do I), but maybe I should start continuously posting about how the Hopkins body punch was so well placed, how the hopkins body punch was thrown at the perfect time, that was the greatest body punch I have ever seen, it stopped a guy who has not been seriously hurt since the Quartey fight, man the was a great body shot!

Another thing, there have been many ko's that have been far more questionable then that one! I won't even name them there are far too many to do that! If you want to pull hairs here I will compile a nice long list.

Whats next...Oscar will probably go down to 147 (a weight in which in hindsight he shoiuld have never left). He will dominate Corey Spinks, whip Zab Judah, make Margarito and Santos look like amateurs etc. After that I expect a post from you that calls Oscar a *****, your reasoning I will leave up too you but thats what I anticipate. Meanwhile you will continue to unconditionally repect guys like Hopkins who have never in their career seriously thought about moving up to take a rteal risk. Oscar had been better for boxing than any fighter I have ever seen in my years of watching the sport, you said you have been watching the sport for 23 years....I'll speak for you too, there is no one who has been better for the sport in that span either (maybe make a case for Sugar Gay Leonard). Why can't you give this guy the benefit of the doubt...just this once?

Man that was a great body punch that bhop landed, I still can't believe that Oscar was able to stay in one piece, the fact that he was able to move makes me think he is the toughest guy on the planet. That body shot never landed, it didn't sink in, there is no way it could have even hurt...I don't think that dishonorable puss named Oscar even knew he was hit....

Both ridiculous statements, the first statement is not something I stand by....I dont think I can say the same for you referring to the second, have a great day Jab-post more, there are only a few poeple who I enjoy reading...the length of this post tells you all you need to know!

Scap....

You're a level-headed poster. Always glad to share opinions with you.

Here's the deal.... I have always thought Oscar was a bit of a con.
I've always had a problem with that. I get a lot of flak from other posters (on other sites) about my dislike of Oscar.
They always HOPE the reason I'm not down with the guy is because of his success, looks, etc.
This annoys me to no end. I have never cared about a fighter for anything outside of the way they fight, & their approach to the game.... ....


....Oscar DEMANDED a rematch with a SHOT former victim in Chavez.
Never did so with Whitaker or Quartey, did he ?
He only fought Mosley because he thought Mosley was a blown-up lightweight. He got that wrong....& went into a semi-retirement....& showed no interest in a rematch with Shane until after Forrest UNDRESSED Mosley.
What about Vargas ? "I'll NEVER fight him...he's classless & disrespectful." That's what Oscar said.....I guess getting badly punished by Trinidad & looking like garbage against Rivera & Flores gave Fernie some dignity, class, & respectfulness ? Nah, it just made him a less risky foe.

He fought Hopkins.....which I gave him a ton of credit for....until ,the fight itself ended.
Getting in the ring, & getting in to win are two very different things.
In my eyes, Oscar proved to me what I've always suspected about him.

I've found that Oscar comes up small in most of his big fights. He fights them TO NOT LOSE....he doesn't fight them to win.
Too tactical......doesn't take that step FORWARD to dare & be great.
That's where I don't think he's as great for the sport as you believe.
His two biggest fights (Hopkins & Tito)....he lures the general public to watch, & then he gives less-than-gung ho performances....leaving a sour taste in the mouths of people who aren't hardcore fans.
All the while.....getting paid MULTI-MILLIONS, & getting the adoration of millions.
So, if a guy like me doesn't like what he sees, BIG DEAL.

why would de la hoya need to take a dive for money?..he was getting paid sik for the fight as it was. no dive

Read more....

No one is saying he took a dive.
But.....he went down on purpose to avoid being punished.

****ty, but not corrupt.

I do believe DLH was getting hurt and didn't want any further punishment, he took the opertunity to stay down, He knew the fight was over when he went down.

We haven't heard about him fighting again, right? He quit, He was a sellout.... Made his cash and joined with B. Hop. No rematch there... Conflict of interest now. Oscar hasn't shown us the heart he had prior to the Tito fight. Like many of the great fighters.... They are on their way out.

Read more....

No one is saying he took a dive.
But.....he went down on purpose to avoid being punished.

****ty, but not corrupt.


Agreed, though I think he was actually hurt, he could have continued to fight. The better way to phrase this post is "did Oscar quit", not question weather or not he took a dive. Does this doom Oscar to disgrace.....not totally. He was getting beat down by a bigger man that specializes in constent sustained
pressure and picking his opponents apart. Hopkins dosen't KO his opponents, he gives them 12 rounds of pain. Oscar knew that.

If you're making 30 million+....& people at home are payin $60.00 to see you fight....you better stay in to the bitter end.

If some ESPN2 Fri Night Fight main eventer were to go down on purpose, for the peanuts he gets, he'd be ripped to shreds by everyone on here.

But, Oscar has his nutlickers & apologists turning their heads on this one.

Did Oscar took a dive? Maybe not. Did Oscar took the easy way out? Yes he did. :cool:

Totally agree!!! The look on his face like he was in so much agony was just laughable!!!

I'm another one that agrees. I don't think he took a "dive" so to speak. I think he was feeling like he had no chance to win the fight and was tired of being frusterated so he overplayed the actual effectiveness of the body shot. DLH thinks he's a good actor, but he's not! I liked him before that, now I think he's a coward.

i don't care. dlh is a *****!! i didn't think he did but know him and hopkins are all butt ****ing buddies now!! he is all over hopkins nuts right now!! that annoys me!! i don't know if he did and i don't care!!

He should of never been allowed to fight Hopkins. He never had a chance to win this fight @ 160. Hopkins was too big, strong and gave DLH too much respect. Did you see the first Hopkins vs Echols fight? Obviously Oscar didn't either.

It's just impossible to say you are right or wrong and we'll never experience the feeling of that one shot, but seeing some of dlh fights (like witn El Feroz) I think he's a very proud and gutsy fighter. I've never enjoyed the guy (too much double talk and ***** crying) but inside the ring I don't see him taking a dive

Scap....

You're a level-headed poster. Always glad to share opinions with you.

Here's the deal.... I have always thought Oscar was a bit of a con.
I've always had a problem with that. I get a lot of flak from other posters (on other sites) about my dislike of Oscar.
They always HOPE the reason I'm not down with the guy is because of his success, looks, etc.
This annoys me to no end. I have never cared about a fighter for anything outside of the way they fight, & their approach to the game.... ....


....Oscar DEMANDED a rematch with a SHOT former victim in Chavez.
Never did so with Whitaker or Quartey, did he ?
He only fought Mosley because he thought Mosley was a blown-up lightweight. He got that wrong....& went into a semi-retirement....& showed no interest in a rematch with Shane until after Forrest UNDRESSED Mosley.
What about Vargas ? "I'll NEVER fight him...he's classless & disrespectful." That's what Oscar said.....I guess getting badly punished by Trinidad & looking like garbage against Rivera & Flores gave Fernie some dignity, class, & respectfulness ? Nah, it just made him a less risky foe.

He fought Hopkins.....which I gave him a ton of credit for....until ,the fight itself ended.
Getting in the ring, & getting in to win are two very different things.
In my eyes, Oscar proved to me what I've always suspected about him.

I've found that Oscar comes up small in most of his big fights. He fights them TO NOT LOSE....he doesn't fight them to win.
Too tactical......doesn't take that step FORWARD to dare & be great.
That's where I don't think he's as great for the sport as you believe.
His two biggest fights (Hopkins & Tito)....he lures the general public to watch, & then he gives less-than-gung ho performances....leaving a sour taste in the mouths of people who aren't hardcore fans.
All the while.....getting paid MULTI-MILLIONS, & getting the adoration of millions.
So, if a guy like me doesn't like what he sees, BIG DEAL.

Some of the things you say I cannot defend Oscar for, there is a number of ways too spin it, however some of the things with Goldie are simply unfair, at least talk about the zillion other fighters that can be accused of the sames things you accuse OScar of...

Oscar fought Chavez because he needed to appeal to the "real Mexican" after the first fight the classless Chavez was *****ing and moaning about the cuts that he suffered, he said that he would have won the fight. Many hispanics still in JC superstars corner believed this to be the case and Oscar who desperately wanted the approval of his "real mexican" fan base had little choice but too bust up the classless Chavez one more time.

Why no rematches with Sweat Pea or Ike? Well who the hell would want to see the Pernell/Oscar fight again...not me! A lot of people say that Whitaker one that fight and thats fine...they are dead wrong. Oscar tried to fight that night and Pernell was not interested...I disagree with the punch stats #'s from that fight, I thought Oscar won that fight and there was no need for a second fight asgainst a southpaw who was poised on winning the fight defensively. Knock Oscar for choosing fighters that have little left...well what about Tito? Had Tito fought the same Sweat Pea that Oscar did he would have lost! Tito waited a little while longer (me and you have had this conversation in the past). Pernell fought a style against Tito that he had never fought anyone else with. Knock Tito or many other legends for picking and choosing when too fight guys...thats the unfortunate nature of the business.

Ike and Oscar fought a hell of a war, no doubt! I had the fight on the table going into the 12th. We all know what happened, the 12th was absolutely dominated by Oscar, DOMINATED! Rematch you say...yeah that would have been nice but if I am not mistaken didn't Oscar have other plans? Plans that read FELIX TRINIDAD? Why fight a rematch with Ike when you can go after Tito...Oscar chose to give the fans what they wanted and went after the man. Is it his fault that Ike went into seclusion and whenever he was offered a fight he did his best to outprice himself? I blame Oscar Zero for not taking either rematch or deciding to thrash Chavez one more time.

Jab your case about Mosley may be true, he may have picked him out thinking that Mosely's lofty record was merely a result of the weight and when asked too move up he would be easy prey. I can't argue that, however a very good case for the other side can be made as well. Who the hell wants to fight a guy that is lightning quick-even quicker than Oscar? Why take a fight with a guy that has little rewards? What was Tito doing? Fighting puppies in David Reid and Nando Vargas? I bring Tito's name up because these two guys were it at their respective weights, they were always compared and fought a mega fight that only left every boxing fan wanting more...Oscar and Felix are forever linked in my mind. Oh wasn't it Oscar who wanted desperately to do it all over again with Felix....I am I wrong here?

The Vargas fight was unavoidable! He was calling out Oscar when he was 5-0. Oscar dismissed this fight several times out of principal...he may have been scared who knows...who cares. After NAndo beat Ike Tito jumped in and fought the kid. Why didn't Tito fight Oscar??? Why Nando??? Fernando gave a great showing for getting basically ko'd in the first...Vargas kept running his mouth so ultimately the fight was unavoidable, plus it was one of the bigger fights in the history of Las Vegas(lampley said it was the toughest fight ticket in 20 years)...why not fight(keep in mind that Fernando was campaigning as the "real mexican", had Oscar continue to avoid him he would have lost a lot more respect)! Also Keep in mind the wimpy Hoya also moved up in weight to take on Nando, and had he fought Vargas when he was 20-0 wouldn't you accuse him of fighting a puppy just like what I have done to Felix?.

We both can go on and on, ya know I like what Merchant said on Saturday...about Oscar, Tito, Roy...shouldn't they stay where they are best at? I think so but in the same breath I say test your limits...Oscar has tested his limits against every possible opponent with every possible style...he is to be credited for this...Oscar is tougher than you think and I am betting that he still has a couple of showcase performances left in him...I hope he goes down as low as he can...between 130-147 he is one of the most exciting fighters I have ever seen. He has given me many more thrills than Hopkins and fought overall tougher competition than Tito....doesn't he deserve a little itty tiny bit of your respect?

Some of the things you say I cannot defend Oscar for, there is a number of ways too spin it, however some of the things with Goldie are simply unfair, at least talk about the zillion other fighters that can be accused of the sames things you accuse OScar of...

Oscar fought Chavez because he needed to appeal to the "real Mexican" after the first fight the classless Chavez was *****ing and moaning about the cuts that he suffered, he said that he would have won the fight. Many hispanics still in JC superstars corner believed this to be the case and Oscar who desperately wanted the approval of his "real mexican" fan base had little choice but too bust up the classless Chavez one more time.

Why no rematches with Sweat Pea or Ike? Well who the hell would want to see the Pernell/Oscar fight again...not me! A lot of people say that Whitaker one that fight and thats fine...they are dead wrong. Oscar tried to fight that night and Pernell was not interested...I disagree with the punch stats #'s from that fight, I thought Oscar won that fight and there was no need for a second fight asgainst a southpaw who was poised on winning the fight defensively. Knock Oscar for choosing fighters that have little left...well what about Tito? Had Tito fought the same Sweat Pea that Oscar did he would have lost! Tito waited a little while longer (me and you have had this conversation in the past). Pernell fought a style against Tito that he had never fought anyone else with. Knock Tito or many other legends for picking and choosing when too fight guys...thats the unfortunate nature of the business.

Ike and Oscar fought a hell of a war, no doubt! I had the fight on the table going into the 12th. We all know what happened, the 12th was absolutely dominated by Oscar, DOMINATED! Rematch you say...yeah that would have been nice but if I am not mistaken didn't Oscar have other plans? Plans that read FELIX TRINIDAD? Why fight a rematch with Ike when you can go after Tito...Oscar chose to give the fans what they wanted and went after the man. Is it his fault that Ike went into seclusion and whenever he was offered a fight he did his best to outprice himself? I blame Oscar Zero for not taking either rematch or deciding to thrash Chavez one more time.

Jab your case about Mosley may be true, he may have picked him out thinking that Mosely's lofty record was merely a result of the weight and when asked too move up he would be easy prey. I can't argue that, however a very good case for the other side can be made as well. Who the hell wants to fight a guy that is lightning quick-even quicker than Oscar? Why take a fight with a guy that has little rewards? What was Tito doing? Fighting puppies in David Reid and Nando Vargas? I bring Tito's name up because these two guys were it at their respective weights, they were always compared and fought a mega fight that only left every boxing fan wanting more...Oscar and Felix are forever linked in my mind. Oh wasn't it Oscar who wanted desperately to do it all over again with Felix....I am I wrong here?

The Vargas fight was unavoidable! He was calling out Oscar when he was 5-0. Oscar dismissed this fight several times out of principal...he may have been scared who knows...who cares. After NAndo beat Ike Tito jumped in and fought the kid. Why didn't Tito fight Oscar??? Why Nando??? Fernando gave a great showing for getting basically ko'd in the first...Vargas kept running his mouth so ultimately the fight was unavoidable, plus it was one of the bigger fights in the history of Las Vegas(lampley said it was the toughest fight ticket in 20 years)...why not fight(keep in mind that Fernando was campaigning as the "real mexican", had Oscar continue to avoid him he would have lost a lot more respect)! Also Keep in mind the wimpy Hoya also moved up in weight to take on Nando, and had he fought Vargas when he was 20-0 wouldn't you accuse him of fighting a puppy just like what I have done to Felix?.

We both can go on and on, ya know I like what Merchant said on Saturday...about Oscar, Tito, Roy...shouldn't they stay where they are best at? I think so but in the same breath I say test your limits...Oscar has tested his limits against every possible opponent with every possible style...he is to be credited for this...Oscar is tougher than you think and I am betting that he still has a couple of showcase performances left in him...I hope he goes down as low as he can...between 130-147 he is one of the most exciting fighters I have ever seen. He has given me many more thrills than Hopkins and fought overall tougher competition than Tito....doesn't he deserve a little itty tiny bit of your respect?

A little itty tiny bit... :D

I hope not, Oscar is a good fighter and I dont think he took a dive,but if him and hopkins fight again and Oscar wins, then people can question the KO, IMO

I'm surprised that Oscar is questioned about a "dive". It simply didn't happen that way. He got hit by a punch that might not have had a lot behind it, but Hopkins clearly caught him with a punch that "stuck". You don't have to look really closely at the overhead angle to see that Hopkins glove comes to a complete stop on DLH's lower side ribs. The palm of the glove has very little padding, and if it "sticks" against anything, it's gonna' say hello.

Whenever something needs a bang to get it to move, you always hit it with your palm 'cause it moves stuff. In this case, it shifted Oscar's liver.

I don't think Oscar took a dive.

I don't think Oscar took a dive either. I've watched the end of that fight several times and the impact Bernard hit him with was enough to cause that much discomfort. Besides he would be dumb to take a dive because that ruins a chance of a rematch by getting stopped. If that is the case then he may as well have gone the distance. Up until he got stopped i thought he had the potential to turn things around a little but Bernard is a tough fighter, he just keeps coming forward and tries breaking you down.

Oscard did not take a dive this is not wrestling.

Oscar didn't dive. But i think i can't help but feel that if he wanted to continue he could have.

Oscar didn't dive. But i think i can't help but feel that if he wanted to continue he could have.


& this is apparently aceptable to so many on here !
This guy got 30 MILLION DOLLARS ! You paid $60.00..
Ya damn SHEEP !

the knockout blow was certainly suspicious.

I refuse to even entertain the thought of DeLaHoya taking a dive, he is one of the all time great figures in the sport, a future Hall Of Famer, and without question a person that young fighters or children in general should look up to. His good deeds for the community help thousands of people!

In the future he will be known as "The Golden Boy" - not only for his Olympic Gold Medal - but rather his "Heart Of Gold" as well. I look forward to his promotions company giving fighters a good deal instead of a raw deal as so many other promoters have done to up and coming talent in the past....

He may not have been as hurt as he made out but the punch Bernard hit him with was perfect. You can here the impact of the punch and it's not pretty. If you look where the punch landed you'll see it get right round his arm. Genuine knockdown.

He may not have been as hurt as he made out but the punch Bernard hit him with was perfect. You can here the impact of the punch and it's not pretty. If you look where the punch landed you'll see it get right round his arm. Genuine knockdown.


It's the weakest body punch knockdown I've ever seen.

I don't care where it landed....it had no mustard, & no impact.
Your body is not your head....where nerve-endings can make glancing blows have serious effect.
This is your body. ORGANS have to get BANGED in order for damage to occur.

This talk of the placement & effect of this punch is a CLICHE.

The punch stunk.

It's the weakest body punch knockdown I've ever seen.

I don't care where it landed....it had no mustard, & no impact.
Your body is not your head....where nerve-endings can make glancing blows have serious effect.
This is your body. ORGANS have to get BANGED in order for damage to occur.

This talk of the placement & effect of this punch is a CLICHE.

The punch stunk.

So you are saying Oscar took a dive? I'd like to see how you would have reacted to that punch. Didn't you hear the impact of the blow? Body punches are some of the most painful in boxing, far more painful than the head. Like i said earlier GENUINE KNOCKDOWN.

"Took a dive" implies he was paid to do so.
I think he went down & stayed down to avoid taking a beating. He figured he did well enough, put in enough rounds....


If I heard anything....it was a SLAPPING sound, not a THUD.


Could I take the shot ?
That's a stupid question !
I am not a world class fighter, one of the best in the world, who goes up to training camp for 8 f*ckin' weeks to prepare his body to stand up to BIG PUNCHES.


Can you....name one lb4lber you've seen go down from that ordinary a body shot, & writhe around like Joe Frazier just stuffed his left hook in his gut ?

"Took a dive" implies he was paid to do so.
I think he went down & stayed down to avoid taking a beating. He figured he did well enough, put in enough rounds....


If I heard anything....it was a SLAPPING sound, not a THUD.


Could I take the shot ?
That's a stupid question !
I am not a world class fighter, one of the best in the world, who goes up to training camp for 8 f*ckin' weeks to prepare his body to stand up to BIG PUNCHES.


Can you....name one lb4lber you've seen go down from that ordinary a body shot, & writhe around like Joe Frazier just stuffed his left hook in his gut ?

You said that was the weakest body punch you have ever seen so that why i said i'd like to see you take it. I fight and i know the pain most fighters will feel in the ring. That punch didn't look like much but it did enough to put him down.

The P4P thing you asked me doesn't matter because i've said once and i'll say it again that Oscar wasn't as hurt as he made out on the floor but the knockdown was genuine. So in our own weird ways i guess we agree because you said that he stayed down to avoid taking a beating.

You said that was the weakest body punch you have ever seen so that why i said i'd like to see you take it. I fight and i know the pain most fighters will feel in the ring. That punch didn't look like much but it did enough to put him down.

The P4P thing you asked me doesn't matter because i've said once and i'll say it again that Oscar wasn't as hurt as he made out on the floor but the knockdown was genuine. So in our own weird ways i guess we agree because you said that he stayed down to avoid taking a beating.

I fought also...& that's why I have my doubts. Just the opposite of everyone else on here.

I fought also...& that's why I have my doubts. Just the opposite of everyone else on here.

Been a fighter yourself helps relate to the punches some of the fighters are taking. Until you have felt some of them you really have no idea at all to the pain a fighter has to endure. When the blood starts pumping you can ignore alot of punches but there are always key timed hits that will always hurt you no matter what.

How long did you fight for?

Been a fighter yourself helps relate to the punches some of the fighters are taking. Until you have felt some of them you really have no idea at all to the pain a fighter has to endure. When the blood starts pumping you can ignore alot of punches but there are always key timed hits that will always hurt you no matter what.

How long did you fight for?

A few (two years) in the late 80's. All amateur.

I know, as much as anyone, the pain a fighter must endure. Why do you think I quit ?

Remember....No lb4lber has ever dropped so HARD from such a questionable-looking punch.

The supposedly fragile Felix Trinidad took far more (& better) punches from Bernard Hopkins before he went down, than did Oscar.

If Oscar doesn't have a glass heart, then he has a glass gut.

A few (two years) in the late 80's. All amateur.

I know, as much as anyone, the pain a fighter must endure. Why do you think I quit ?

Remember....No lb4lber has ever dropped so HARD from such a questionable-looking punch.

The supposedly fragile Felix Trinidad took far more (& better) punches from Bernard Hopkins before he went down, than did Oscar.

If Oscar doesn't have a glass heart, then he has a glass gut.

I understand what you are saying and respect what you are saying. I think in that fight he had a glass heart, he had a look of uncertain thoughts when he entered the ring. He knew he was going to have a hard time and he did, that knockdown was the perfect escape from more punishment. I can agree with that but discounting the punch as not even knocking him down is harder for me to swollow. You know yourself as you were a fighter that the slightest punch which connects wrong to the stomach can still kncok the wind out of you.

I understand what you are saying and respect what you are saying. I think in that fight he had a glass heart, he had a look of uncertain thoughts when he entered the ring. He knew he was going to have a hard time and he did, that knockdown was the perfect escape from more punishment. I can agree with that but discounting the punch as not even knocking him down is harder for me to swollow. You know yourself as you were a fighter that the slightest punch which connects wrong to the stomach can still kncok the wind out of you.


The SLIGHTEST punch (which is exactly what Hop hit Oscar with) can knock the wind out of you...
But not knock you OUT....& have you in such DRAMATICS.

Fighters have the wind knocked out of them all the time, but a real pro takes it & doesn't let it show.

The SLIGHTEST punch (which is exactly what Hop hit Oscar with) can knock the wind out of you...
But not knock you OUT....& have you in such DRAMATICS.

Fighters have the wind knocked out of them all the time, but a real pro takes it & doesn't let it show.

Aaaaaaaarrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhhhh thats what i have been saying. I have said that Oscar could have got up and that he was not as hurt as he made out. He wanted a way out and he got one. But the punch still did enough to fell him, he obviously wasn't as mentally strong as he usually is and that can affect how a fighter performs and takes punches.

That is NOT what you've been saying.

See the part where I said "a real pro takes it & doesn't let it show" ?
Wouldn't you assume that means keeping his ass off the floor ?

Tell me....you've never had the wind knocked out of you, but remained calm & ON YOUR FEET ?
If not, just how much boxing have you done ?


& WHY IS IT ACCEPTABLE that this man quit ?

That is NOT what you've been saying.

See the part where I said "a real pro takes it & doesn't let it show" ?
Wouldn't you assume that means keeping his ass off the floor ?

Tell me....you've never had the wind knocked out of you, but remained calm & ON YOUR FEET ?
If not, just how much boxing have you done ?


& WHY IS IT ACCEPTABLE that this man quit ?

What are you on? I have consistantly said that Oscar was not as hurt as he made out and that maybe he could have got up.

Of course i have had the wind knocked out of me and yes i have remained on my feet and fought on. Oscar did not see that punch coming, even the less powerful of punches can knock you down when not expecting them.

I never actually said it was acceptable that he quit either i was just stating that is was a genuine knockdown.

So...you're admitting Oscar could have gotten up.
This makes him a quitter, right ?

So...you're admitting Oscar could have gotten up.
This makes him a quitter, right ?

If you word it like that then yes he is a quitter. I have no shame in admitting that because i'm not a Oscar fan, i was routing for Bernard that fight like most people were. The odds were against him before he entered the ring. The only thing he counted on was that Bernard had got seriously old overnight.

His reaction to that punch was legit. I've only seen a couple guys flop, (Bruce Seldon, anyone?) and you can tell instantly when they are acting. Oscar was hurt!

Did De La Hoya take a dive? No. I had always noticed that De La Hoya never took body shots well, especially at 147 and up. He got hit with a left hook he didn't see, and was deflated by it. He got hit right at the top of the vulnerable area. Oscar is an intelligent business man, and he signed one of the pound for pound best. He's not a fight thrower, but a guy looking to make a quick buck.

Its just all too suspicous, and everything is just so convenient in the end. Perect shot this, perfect shot that, tell you the truth I didn't even see the punch until the instant replay. When Oscar went down I was like WTF happened?? And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

No way Oscar took a dive, he got beat.

Breaking News

Oscar de la Hoya was spotted with his family in his backyard having a barbecue with his family. Everything seemed normal and on the level until....
oscar removed his shorts and was left in nothing but his swiming trunks. He then, reportedly, proceeded to climb onto the edge of the diving board where he allegedly took a dive.

there he took a dive now shut the fuk up with this ****.


and no i dont think he took a dvie in dat fight

Not only did he take a dive in the fight for B.Hop, He is diving for B.Hop now since they are a couple. Now when he gets up he wipes his mouth not his gloves.

Through Oscar's phony screams....the faint sound of "No mas. No mas boxeo" could be heard.

He didn't "dive", he quit.

Through Oscar's phony screams....the faint sound of "No mas. No mas boxeo" could be heard.

He didn't "dive", he quit.

Saying he quit is giving him credit for trying. I would say he Pussied out. IMHO

Not only did he take a dive in the fight for B.Hop, He is diving for B.Hop now since they are a couple. Now when he gets up he wipes his mouth not his gloves.
make fun all you want of their relationship...it is plain and simple a brilliant move. This promotional company will change the sport more than any John McCain legislations ever could...the future will be very bright when these two guys are running the show.

no I did not take a dive, the bodyshot was clean and hurt like hell

make fun all you want of their relationship...it is plain and simple a brilliant move. This promotional company will change the sport more than any John McCain legislations ever could...the future will be very bright when these two guys are running the show.

Just like Sugar Ray's Promotion. Or RJJ promoting Winky. That has done wonders for the sport. NOT

Sorry, I really must disagree with you. These two still want to be the center of attention. If they really want to promote, they would have a rematch and put some of there up and comers on the undercard.

I'd rather see Wright-McKart IV than Hopkins-DeLaHoya II.

I'd rather see Wright-McKart IV than Hopkins-DeLaHoya II.

No question or Wright - Vargas. B.Hop - Wright too.

I'd rather see Wright-McKart IV than Hopkins-DeLaHoya II.
what are you kidding or something winky's beat him all 3 times.bronko is a washed up fighter you can't be serious here. :eek:

what are you kidding or something winky's beat him all 3 times.bronko is a washed up fighter you can't be serious here. :eek:


Not really serious, the thought of either gets an equal yawn from me.

just something to think about, hopkins landed the same exact body shot on robert allen in the 3rd fight. he was disabled for about a minute but stood on his feet and finished the fight, taking his beating like a man. however, allen is also a natural middle and has a much larger frame. i think you just have to go by oscars history, he doesnt have a history of quitting so id say it wa s a legit ko. fighters being friends after a fight is nothing new

Just like Sugar Ray's Promotion. Or RJJ promoting Winky. That has done wonders for the sport. NOT

Sorry, I really must disagree with you. These two still want to be the center of attention. If they really want to promote, they would have a rematch and put some of there up and comers on the undercard.

Listen very carefully 1god, how much money do you think Sugar Ray Leonard has, nothing??? Whatever you think I bet it is a lot less so what if he has a few million he would not be willing to part with that to try and jump start a business. How much money do you think RJ has??? not very much...Oscar has hundreds of millions...which mean everything in this business. I would venture too say that he can easily compete with Don and Bob...that 1god is all that matters!

Sugar Ray took a dive because of money!!! Oscar's company has only just gotten off the ground and they are ten times the company that Sugar's company was. It is all about money and Oscar has the most of it. Do you get it now...MONEY

Duran did not have a history of quitting......& he did after having TWICE as many fights as Oscar.

Oscra's quit job was more subtle than Duran's, masked better....but no better.

duran didnt quit from being hurt, he was out of shape and embarrassed. oscar had a history of being vulnerable to body shots. even i thought if he was going to get stopped it would be a body shot. he was hurt against shane to the body and shanes power is a joke at 154. hopkins planted the perfect shot to his liver and that was all she wrote, simple as that imo

http://69.44.61.80/5/userfiles/4162acea090c4.gif

"perfect shot" ??

Not even close.

LOOK AT YOUR AVATAR !

The knuckles don't even connect ! LMAO !

That punch looks like less & less with each passing shot.

C'mon everyone.....look at it....it STINKS.

Listen very carefully 1god, how much money do you think Sugar Ray Leonard has, nothing??? Whatever you think I bet it is a lot less so what if he has a few million he would not be willing to part with that to try and jump start a business. How much money do you think RJ has??? not very much...Oscar has hundreds of millions...which mean everything in this business. I would venture too say that he can easily compete with Don and Bob...that 1god is all that matters!

Sugar Ray took a dive because of money!!! Oscar's company has only just gotten off the ground and they are ten times the company that Sugar's company was. It is all about money and Oscar has the most of it. Do you get it now...MONEY

OK SCRAP time for you to listen..... I am well aware that they are all wealthy. Yes RJJ has money too.... DLH has Money tooo OK, that is fine. I didn't assume that they were fighting for charity nor promoting for charity. If Oscar really wanted to promote his guys better wouldn't he have put them on regular HBO not just Latino? Oh yea the Money :confused: ???

If he is going to promote, then get out of the ring and do it. Devote your time to your fighters.... But as SCAT says its about the money??? :confused: See the point yet? Doubt it

"perfect shot" ??

Not even close.

LOOK AT YOUR AVATAR !

The knuckles don't even connect ! LMAO !


Oscar must be KO ticklish

OK SCRAP time for you to listen..... I am well aware that they are all wealthy. Yes RJJ has money too.... DLH has Money tooo OK, that is fine. I didn't assume that they were fighting for charity nor promoting for charity. If Oscar really wanted to promote his guys better wouldn't he have put them on regular HBO not just Latino? Oh yea the Money :confused: ???

If he is going to promote, then get out of the ring and do it. Devote your time to your fighters.... But as SCAT says its about the money??? :confused: See the point yet? Doubt it

No buy the words of your first post you are not aware just how ridiculously wealthy Oscar is. If you think for one second that Roy has Oscar type money your are completey misguided, it is not even close! Oscar has MArco, he has been on HBO twice under Oscar's guidance and I belief this weekend MAB is on PAY PER View. Oscar has done an awesome job starting HBO Latino, the cards have been awesome, and in time fighters that fight on that network will graduate to HBO!

Here is yout stupidest comment, saying that if Oscar is going to promote then he should get out of the ring and promote. You idiot, did you take note who was fighting on the Oscar/Hopkins undercard? HE gives many of his young fighters exposure (and will continue to do so)that they would have never gotten under any other promoter. Imagine a young fighter fighting the undercard of Hopkins/OScar....that is promotion dum**** made in large part due to the fact tha that Oscar is still in the ring... I don't mean to be mean but you need to conceed here, you brought up Sugar and RJ as levels of comparison towards Oscars endeavor...they could not be more different...you will laugh about this in a couple years when Goldenboypromotions is at the top, you will laugh and be happy at the same time!

No buy the words of your first post you are not aware just how ridiculously wealthy Oscar is. If you think for one second that Roy has Oscar type money your are completey misguided, it is not even close! Oscar has MArco, he has been on HBO twice under Oscar's guidance and I belief this weekend MAB is on PAY PER View. Oscar has done an awesome job starting HBO Latino, the cards have been awesome, and in time fighters that fight on that network will graduate to HBO!

Here is yout stupidest comment, saying that if Oscar is going to promote then he should get out of the ring and promote. You idiot, did you take note who was fighting on the Oscar/Hopkins undercard? HE gives many of his young fighters exposure (and will continue to do so)that they would have never gotten under any other promoter. Imagine a young fighter fighting the undercard of Hopkins/OScar....that is promotion dum**** made in large part due to the fact tha that Oscar is still in the ring... I don't mean to be mean but you need to conceed here, you brought up Sugar and RJ as levels of comparison towards Oscars endeavor...they could not be more different...you will laugh about this in a couple years when Goldenboypromotions is at the top, you will laugh and be happy at the same time!

Ok the namecalling is uncalled for. Pretty sad when you have to resort to that.

I will address your points and avoid the childish remarks...

First, I hope you are right about Golden Boy Productions. MAB was an HBO fighter b4 DLH stepped in. No, I never said that RJJ Sugar Ray and DLH are equal in $$$$. I could care less who has more money. I am a fight fan. I am a fan for the fighters not who has the most money. I suppose if Bob and King got in the ring that would be better for their fighters too... LOL

What I meant (and if you think about it)
If DLH stepped out of the ring and devoted his efforts to Goldenboy productions' fighters; Not himself, he could get a decent push for his guys. If you are going to promote fighters, then do it. Oscar has to think about his next fight and not worry about his other fighters. Oh yea, the money :confused:

Ok the namecalling is uncalled for. Pretty sad when you have to resort to that.

I will address your points and avoid the childish remarks...

First, I hope you are right about Golden Boy Productions. MAB was an HBO fighter b4 DLH stepped in. No, I never said that RJJ Sugar Ray and DLH are equal in $$$$. I could care less who has more money. I am a fight fan. I am a fan for the fighters not who has the most money. I suppose if Bob and King got in the ring that would be better for their fighters too... LOL

What I meant (and if you think about it)
If DLH stepped out of the ring and devoted his efforts to Goldenboy productions' fighters; Not himself, he could get a decent push for his guys. If you are going to promote fighters, then do it. Oscar has to think about his next fight and not worry about his other fighters. Oh yea, the money :confused:
Mab was a hbo fighter your right and he still is, he is just promoted under Oscar now where is the relevance with this remark?. Are you going to hold it against Oscar when he signs Winky Wright or Shane Mosley by saying they were HBO guys before they were with Oscar, does that not count??? I don't mean to insult you but you appear to missing the point. I am very fortunate person in the fact that I get to discuss some of these very same issues with Goldenboypromotions/donking and others. Money is what the fight/promotional game is all about...you would be very surprised as I was to learn about many of the big time promoters in this game that have there checks bounce! You brought up Sugar Ray, He company never reached what Oscar's has and Golden boy has been around for a very short period. You maucked HBO LAtino why? This is how company start out! Before PAcman destroyed Barerra Goldie in his second year a fight promoting had a fighter in the top 5 pound for pound, it does not get any better than that and it certainly does not get any quicker than that.

What are you arguing again? Your very first reply was sarcastic referring to Sugar Ray, do you take that back because thats what it sounds like. You don't think Golden boy is giving it his full effort...do you realize that he ahas a very experienced fight team in place headed by Richard Schaeffer and Roy Englebreacht? These guys no what they are doing and they have the financial backing of a multimultimultimillionaire. OScar is at every LAtino show and nearly every telefutura show...did you watch his up and coming superstar Ponce Deleon last friday? HE will be on hbo too someday soon! Yet you talk about Oscar getting a "decent push", show me another promoter who has done more in less time than Oscar...show me, educate me please....he is going as fast as this business will allow!

Let me ask you this 1god, who would you rather fight for if you were a world class prizefighter...Oscar/Bernard......Don......Bob...Frank Warren.....who?

the knockout blow was certainly suspicious.

Exactly. Especially given the steady thumping DLH was getting as the "KO" approached. But, ya' can't ignore that DLH got hit by a leverage hook that "stuck".

That punch looks like less & less with each passing shot.

C'mon everyone.....look at it....it STINKS.

look at the ripple on oscar body after that shot lands and how his body reacts to the punch. remember how fit oscar was for this fight, if this wasnt a real punch it wouldnt make a dent in his body the way that it does. oscar immediately starts covering up his body leaving his head WIDE open, an obvious sign that a body shot has hit its mark. when body shots arent having an effect the fighter will keep their hands up (recent example look at winky vs shane). oscar starts folding up like a lawn chair. just remember that clip is in slow motion, all that happened very quickly.

http://69.44.61.80/5/userfiles/4162acea090c4.gif

Clean shot...
I also liked the fight.
Jabs, you don't know what you're talking about..

Yeah, think that was a pretty cleen shot and it most likely did hurt him. But that wasn't a show stopping punch. Livershots tend to be more effective a little bit lower and a bit more to the front of the fighter. That shot landed right on Oscars rib-cage. It definately looked like it hurt, but I don't think it was the terminal "Micky Ward" style shot that would end the fight.

Oh, the fight was entertaining.

Mab was a hbo fighter your right and he still is, he is just promoted under Oscar now where is the relevance with this remark?. Are you going to hold it against Oscar when he signs Winky Wright or Shane Mosley by saying they were HBO guys before they were with Oscar, does that not count??? I don't mean to insult you but you appear to missing the point. I am very fortunate person in the fact that I get to discuss some of these very same issues with Goldenboypromotions/donking and others. Money is what the fight/promotional game is all about...you would be very surprised as I was to learn about many of the big time promoters in this game that have there checks bounce! You brought up Sugar Ray, He company never reached what Oscar's has and Golden boy has been around for a very short period. You maucked HBO LAtino why? This is how company start out! Before PAcman destroyed Barerra Goldie in his second year a fight promoting had a fighter in the top 5 pound for pound, it does not get any better than that and it certainly does not get any quicker than that.

What are you arguing again? Your very first reply was sarcastic referring to Sugar Ray, do you take that back because thats what it sounds like. You don't think Golden boy is giving it his full effort...do you realize that he ahas a very experienced fight team in place headed by Richard Schaeffer and Roy Englebreacht? These guys no what they are doing and they have the financial backing of a multimultimultimillionaire. OScar is at every LAtino show and nearly every telefutura show...did you watch his up and coming superstar Ponce Deleon last friday? HE will be on hbo too someday soon! Yet you talk about Oscar getting a "decent push", show me another promoter who has done more in less time than Oscar...show me, educate me please....he is going as fast as this business will allow!

Let me ask you this 1god, who would you rather fight for if you were a world class prizefighter...Oscar/Bernard......Don......Bob...Frank Warren.....who?

It is almost pointless to argue the topic, I am not a reporter nor do I pretend to be involved with the big promoters. I do not and will not play make-believe. Sure I could could come back and say "well I am good friends with Don King and have been for years" but sorry I am stating my opinion, not trying to impress you.

i Agree, there was nothing wrong with fight. DLH just could take his power!

i Agree, there was nothing wrong with fight. DLH just couldn't take his power!

It is almost pointless to argue the topic, I am not a reporter nor do I pretend to be involved with the big promoters. I do not and will not play make-believe. Sure I could could come back and say "well I am good friends with Don King and have been for years" but sorry I am stating my opinion, not trying to impress you.

I do not know Don King and I am certainly not trying to impress you(members of his team is a different story), you brought up a number of things with regards to Golden boy and you were obviously out of your element, just like Donny in the BIG LEBOWSKI. "1god your out of you ****in element." If you are sure I am playing make believe then private message me, I will give you some background information and some urls which lead to my work. I will also show/tell you exactly what you can expect in the near future from two of the three major boxing promoters with regards to their web presence.

I agree the argument is now pointless, just make sure you own up when Goldie is on top of the promotional game. Setting the meaness aside think about Golden boy for a second...he currently has Oscar Delahoya, Marco Antonio Barerra and Bernard Hopkins...Sugar Ray Leonard would have died for the chance/opportunity in retrospect too promote while he was still fighting...Oscar also has a number of young up and comers that will be fighting on HBO showtime in the near future, imagine if Kelson Pinto had pulled off the upset, he would have had the best prospect in the world.(I know if my aunt had balls she would be my uncle). Anyways all fun aside it is nothing short of astounding what Oscar and his team have accomplished in such short time....private message me-I wouldn't mind sharing with you what I am working on...at the very least it will show you that I am no poser!

if you really want to know how hard the shot was, look at benards legs and hip area as he throws the shot, they move in the direction of the punch first, this adds a trmendous amount of power behind the shot. Im sure you've all heard of punching from the legs, well thats a good example right there.

Why would he take a dive!?

This taking a dive scenerio is very possible IMO. But, I don't think Oscar could live with himself for quiting. Besides, he can make money of plenty of fighters not just BHOP. He thought he couldt out outbox the middleweight king, but once he got hit he said F that. Didnt you just watch BHop demolish a tough Light heavyweight?

Also, I've been hit in the kidneys boxing once and I fell like a sack of potatoes from a 3 story building. My legs just went dead. It does happen.

Brass air fittings


Now that is a lot of brass air fittings http://www.liangdianup.com/subpages/airfitting_1.htm there is just about every type
of air fitting that you could want. Wholesale prices too. I guess these could be used as small water pipe fitting also. I
used some of the parts to make my babington wvo burner.

Last time ?

He took the flimsiest body punch I've seen & rolled around like he was hit with a baseball bat.

Don't give me the weight issue, either. The punch BOUNCED off of his side. If it was a size issue, the punch should have SUNK into him, or RATTLED his body. It did neither.

The man took his money & ran with it.

I have been watching boxing for 23 years, & I rate that KO as one of the most questionable I've ever seen.

Absolutely Jabs.

Someone mentioned that winning would have been more profitable to Oscar. True. But Oscar De La Hoya couldn't beat Bernard Hopkins to save his life. No doubt in my mind he took the money and ran.

I'm not so sure why people don't think this is possible. This is BOXING. Sh*t like this happens far more than you could dream of. And Oscar is the sport's biggest name - like Jordan for Basketball. Surprised so many people have forgotten the strange nature of the DLH-Campas stoppage and the over/under for that bout.

If you believe DLH took a dive than you are stupid. I'm not a DLH fan, but he's not the sort of dude to take a Dive against Pac. Why bother training so hard for the fight then?

If you believe DLH took a dive than you are stupid. I'm not a DLH fan, but he's not the sort of dude to take a Dive against Pac. Why bother training so hard for the fight then?
LOL the thread is talking about oscar taking a dive against bhop ha ha.