View Full Version : Ray Robinson and Joe Louis - Strengths and weaknesses


Bright-Eyes
09-14-2009, 02:38 PM
What would you say the strengths and weaknesses are of these two fighters? What particular things did they do right and wrong in the ring?


both have been described as perfect fighters who did everything right and made very little mistakes.


Can you point out their strengths or even certain flaws they made when they fought.I remember reading something about Max Schmeling noticing a certain bad habit Joe Louis would often do when he fought and he studied him and made him pay for his mistake.

Did Louis learn from his mistake after his fight? And what about Sugar Ray Robinson.Did he ever make any mistakes or was he just that skilled.


I've never watched a full fight of either,Are there many of their fights out there?

What fights should I watch of theirs to see them at their very best?


I just watch boxing to be honest and don't really study it so forgive me for coming across as a newb.

Stoppage
09-14-2009, 03:48 PM
Max Schmeling noticed a flaw in Louis' style. It was that after Louis would shoot a jab, he would bring his hand down. This allowed Schmeling to shoot his straight right (which was his best punch).

I guess after that Louis did improve his style a bit. He ended up knocking out Schmeling in 1 round in their rematch. He would go on to defend his championship for 12 years with 25 title defenses. So yes, you can say he improved.

As for Ray Robinson, I dont think there's that much footage of him in his prime. I think there's some posters on this forum who might have his fights so they might reply. I'd ask TheGreatA. He always has good videos.

There's good fights of him past his prime where he still looked amazing.

Try this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-l2PC5It1HI

mike ruler
09-14-2009, 08:24 PM
When you talk about weaknesses with Ray Robinson, you're basically nitpicking. The only thing I can think of, is against better inside brawlers (SRR was a hell of one himself) he could get pulled into those brawls and lose some exchanges (i.e first LaMotta Fight, Basillio) However, if you exploit a SRR "weakness" you better never fight him again, cuz he will tighten it up...lol

GJC
09-14-2009, 08:52 PM
When you talk about weaknesses with Ray Robinson, you're basically nitpicking. The only thing I can think of, is against better inside brawlers (SRR was a hell of one himself) he could get pulled into those brawls and lose some exchanges (i.e first LaMotta Fight, Basillio) However, if you exploit a SRR "weakness" you better never fight him again, cuz he will tighten it up...lol
Louis could get caught and whilst he had good footwork it wasn't absolutely top notch.
Robinson could get outbrawled at times.
But noticing their few weaknesses before they exploit yours is another question.
You have to give great credit to Schmelling in the 1st fight because the only way to exploit it was to stand in the eye of the storm and take the punishment. Second fight the storm blew him away I guess to keep on the theme :)

phallus
09-14-2009, 10:16 PM
Louis could get caught and whilst he had good footwork it wasn't absolutely top notch.
Robinson could get outbrawled at times.
But noticing their few weaknesses before they exploit yours is another question.
You have to give great credit to Schmelling in the 1st fight because the only way to exploit it was to stand in the eye of the storm and take the punishment. Second fight the storm blew him away I guess to keep on the theme :)

louis could get caught early by a flash knockdown, like in the braddock fight

them_apples
09-14-2009, 10:44 PM
Louis had poor defense and slow feet.

Robinson really didn't have many accept that he stood his ground often times when he didn't have to, shouldn't have.

you can also say there is room for improvement, example, Robinson had quick hands but not the quickest, he punched hard but not the hardest etc.

no glaring weaknesses for Robinson though. there should be a pros list to. we can even pick Ali apart just as easily.

RightCross94
09-15-2009, 01:58 AM
Robinson had no huge weaknesses that handicapped him, like say the way Hearns' chin lost him so many big fights, but he still had weaknesses. He was relatively open defensively, he had a solid defence at times, but he was definitely hittable. He also traded a bit too much, and left himself open when he went in for the kill. But as I said, no huge weaknesses.

Louis didn't have the best chin. It wasn't glass, but it definitely wasn't anything to brag about. He was also pretty open definsively and was heavy and slow on his feet.

zelley
09-15-2009, 11:46 AM
Two significant weaknesses of Sugar Ray Robinson
.his ego and the decision to fight well past his prime.

But, despite these two flaws, he is the best of the best.

mike ruler
09-15-2009, 12:21 PM
Two significant weaknesses of Sugar Ray Robinson
.his ego and the decision to fight well past his prime.

But, despite these two flaws, he is the best of the best.

That can be said about ne fighter ever.

boxingbuff
09-16-2009, 03:42 PM
Joe Louis never punched unless he had BOTH feet planted.

So if you could keep him moving,keep him turning,he couldn't plant both feet to punch like he wanted to.

Louis also lacked good head movement,and was not very fast on his feet.

Joe also had trouble fighting while moving backwards.

Silencers
09-16-2009, 11:02 PM
I never liked the way Robinson jabbed to the body, he'd lean back when he did it and ducked down quite low which left him open to right hands over the top but his speed and footwork allowed him to get away with it until he got old, it's why he got knocked down against Archer.

Robinson's main flaws were in his defense but there really wasn't any huge flaws in his game.

I think Louis' big flaw was the low left hand, it got better after the first Schmeling fight but the flaw was still there.

GJC
09-17-2009, 08:36 AM
Joe Louis never punched unless he had BOTH feet planted.

So if you could keep him moving,keep him turning,he couldn't plant both feet to punch like he wanted to.

Louis also lacked good head movement,and was not very fast on his feet.

Joe also had trouble fighting while moving backwards.
Add that he didn't have a top notch chin and thats Joe Louis. It is quite amusing when you break it down it reminds me a bit of the first review on Fred Astaire, "Can't sing. Can't act. Slightly balding. Can dance a little." :)

The Jackal
09-17-2009, 09:11 AM
Louis had a bad chin, we only have to look at the Billy Conn fight when a smaller man hurt him had him going in round 9, he was lucky Conn had too much to fight for.
Schmelling exposed Louis to right hands, dropping his guard after getting his shots off was his flaw Schmelling exposed this fully, if it weren't for that Louis would be flawless only for his chin.

Robinson's weaknesses have been pointed out already.

Slimey Limey
09-17-2009, 09:38 AM
Bumbeater was extremely slow on his feet, often slow with his slugging(I thought I was watching the cunt in slow motion when he was pummeling Schmeling on the ropes.) He was dumb, had a china/glass chin made out of the weakest porcelain you can find. Very very weak chin, very weak. His defensive skills were almost as bad. He would get outboxed by any slick boxer. His title reign consisted of bums and sub par competition. He quit against Schmeling the first time. He loved to beat the ****e out of his women. I could go on, but I would enjoy it too much.

Salty GAY Robinson was not as bad as a fighter. Although he was a sloppy brawler at times as well, getting his arse kicked by fighters who could punch. His defense was ****e, he was not the type of lad who could get away with that low hands RJJ thing. Mostly the biggest problem was his heart. He loved to beat up those bums, but when he got in trouble himself he'd get discouraged. He quit against Maxim and put on a crappy acting performance. And worst of all, he not only beat up his women but he beat his own children which is even worse. A true scumbag.

GJC
09-17-2009, 10:05 AM
Bumbeater was extremely slow on his feet, often slow with his slugging(I thought I was watching the cunt in slow motion when he was pummeling Schmeling on the ropes.) He was dumb, had a china/glass chin made out of the weakest porcelain you can find. Very very weak chin, very weak. His defensive skills were almost as bad. He would get outboxed by any slick boxer. His title reign consisted of bums and sub par competition. He quit against Schmeling the first time. He loved to beat the ****e out of his women. I could go on, but I would enjoy it too much.

Salty GAY Robinson was not as bad as a fighter. Although he was a sloppy brawler at times as well, getting his arse kicked by fighters who could punch. His defense was ****e, he was not the type of lad who could get away with that low hands RJJ thing. Mostly the biggest problem was his heart. He loved to beat up those bums, but when he got in trouble himself he'd get discouraged. He quit against Maxim and put on a crappy acting performance. And worst of all, he not only beat up his women but he beat his own children which is even worse. A true scumbag.
Threads been up 3 days slimey, been away?

Bright-Eyes
09-19-2009, 04:39 AM
Louis had a bad chin, we only have to look at the Billy Conn fight when a smaller man hurt him had him going in round 9, he was lucky Conn had too much to fight for.
Schmelling exposed Louis to right hands, dropping his guard after getting his shots off was his flaw Schmelling exposed this fully, if it weren't for that Louis would be flawless only for his chin.


How many times exactly was he knocked down during his career? Some guys get unfairly tagged with the bad chin accusation and perhaps Joe Louis was one of them?




Bumbeater was extremely slow on his feet, often slow with his slugging(I thought I was watching the cunt in slow motion when he was pummeling Schmeling on the ropes.) He was dumb, had a china/glass chin made out of the weakest porcelain you can find. Very very weak chin, very weak. His defensive skills were almost as bad. He would get outboxed by any slick boxer. His title reign consisted of bums and sub par competition. He quit against Schmeling the first time. He loved to beat the ****e out of his women. I could go on, but I would enjoy it too much.

Salty GAY Robinson was not as bad as a fighter. Although he was a sloppy brawler at times as well, getting his arse kicked by fighters who could punch. His defense was ****e, he was not the type of lad who could get away with that low hands RJJ thing. Mostly the biggest problem was his heart. He loved to beat up those bums, but when he got in trouble himself he'd get discouraged. He quit against Maxim and put on a crappy acting performance. And worst of all, he not only beat up his women but he beat his own children which is even worse. A true scumbag.


When did robinson or Louis ever beat up on women and where did you get the story that Robinson beat up his own children?

You sound like you got an agenda here to be honest.

RightCross94
09-19-2009, 05:45 AM
How many times exactly was he knocked down during his career? Some guys get unfairly tagged with the bad chin accusation and perhaps Joe Louis was one of them?







When did robinson or Louis ever beat up on women and where did you get the story that Robinson beat up his own children?

You sound like you got an agenda here to be honest.

I don't think agenda is a strong enough word. Pathological hatred sounds better.

Slimey Limey
09-19-2009, 05:20 PM
How many times exactly was he knocked down during his career? Some guys get unfairly tagged with the bad chin accusation and perhaps Joe Louis was one of them?







When did robinson or Louis ever beat up on women and where did you get the story that Robinson beat up his own children?

You sound like you got an agenda here to be honest.


Why is 2 + 2 =4? Why if I put me hand in fire it will burn? Why are you an idiot if you jump into traffic?
Do your research on facts you wanker.


I don't think agenda is a strong enough word. Pathological hatred sounds better.

:bottle:

Bright-Eyes
09-19-2009, 07:26 PM
Why is 2 + 2 =4? Why if I put me hand in fire it will burn? Why are you an idiot if you jump into traffic?
Do your research on facts you wanker.


What facts you prick? You said Louis beat up on women and Robinson beat up on women and his kids.

What facts did you provide that they ever did so? It's obvious you just hate the two and will use and small detail to try and discredit the them.


Grow up knob

Slimey Limey
09-19-2009, 09:15 PM
What facts you prick? You said Louis beat up on women and Robinson beat up on women and his kids.

What facts did you provide that they ever did so? It's obvious you just hate the two and will use and small detail to try and discredit the them.


Grow up knob

It's obvious you're a stupid arse newbie who doesn't know ****e about Boxing. Probably converted from mmGAY a while ago innit. These facts have been discussed in numerous threads, so do your own research you lazy queer. I'm not about to waste a second of work on your punk arse because you can't even do your own research. now fook off cunt.

Spartacus Sully
09-19-2009, 09:20 PM
It's obvious you're a stupid arse newbie who doesn't know ****e about Boxing. Probably converted from mmGAY a while ago innit. These facts have been discussed in numerous threads, so do your own research you lazy queer. I'm not about to waste a second of work on your punk arse because you can't even do your own research. now fook off cunt.

Yeah i dont know about sugar ray but joe louis did hit a woman mind you she had just broken up with him and was cursing him out.

Bright-Eyes
09-21-2009, 07:24 AM
It's obvious you're a stupid arse newbie who doesn't know ****e about Boxing. Probably converted from mmGAY a while ago innit. These facts have been discussed in numerous threads, so do your own research you lazy queer. I'm not about to waste a second of work on your punk arse because you can't even do your own research. now fook off cunt.

You're a f*cking douche,Grow the f*ck up dickhead.Who the f*ck are you to discredit great fighters? You don't know **** about their personal lives so why even comment?