View Full Version : How did u score Hagler-Leonard?


STILL_DETOX
09-14-2009, 01:25 AM
i had it 117-111 for leonard. i dont see how people had it so close... no way hagler won it.

how did u guys score it?

BigMacFoster
09-14-2009, 01:45 AM
117-111 is just silly and wrong.

Marvin Hagler and his most loyal of fanboys have still yet to come up with a convincing argument as to how he won that fight convincingly however.

They have made claims of robbery despite the fact that in a robbery there must be a clear decisive winner who is jobbed out of a clear deserved victory.

for Hagler to have been robbed,He must have won by atleast 116-112 and anyone who scored the fight in that way for Hagler is a liar and a scam who hasn't even seen the fight.


The typical pathetic argument Hagler loyalists use is that all Leonard did throughout the entire twelve rounds is lurry during the last thirty seconds


That's right folks Hagler clearly dominated the first five rounds and Leonard just stole them ecause he threw some flurries.

As I seem to remember those pitty pat ineffective flurries actually had the iron chinned Hagler backing off of Leonard.


In an unbiased impartial review of the fight,It was an extremely close,competitive fight which Leonard deserved due to his early lead.

Although such arguments for a draw are fair as it just was that close.

The ironic thing is,That this fight was never supposed to go the decision in the first place,It was never supposed to be competitive and it was never supposed to be close,It was Leonards final beatdown by the indestructible Marvin Hagler,No one gave Leonard a chance and he not only lasted the distance but won the decision.

It must have been a painfull pill to swallow for Hagler to lose to a washed up,inactive blown up welterweight,That hurts his legacy like hell,He knows it and so does his apologist fans and thats why they continue to discredit Leonard


The end.

Thread Stealer
09-14-2009, 01:59 AM
Leonard-Hagler

Leonard: 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 11
Hagler: 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12.
Final: 114-114

sonnyboyx2
09-14-2009, 03:14 AM
i had it 117-111 for leonard. i dont see how people had it so close... no way hagler won it.

how did u guys score it?
i had it 117-111 Leonard

Steak
09-14-2009, 03:25 AM
I had it 115-113 Hagler. some people overlook his bodyshots or simply dont think they count as much as headshots, but I score them pretty highly if they appear effective. Hagler was smacking Leonard's body pretty hard, and it showed up later in the fight.

overall I just thought that Leonard's shots had little effect on Hagler, while Halger's punches were stronger, cleaner and were doing more damage. at least in the rounds he won.

close fight though, could have gone either way, no robbery. Hagler did start pretty late.

sonnyboyx2
09-14-2009, 06:12 AM
I had it 115-113 Hagler. some people overlook his bodyshots or simply dont think they count as much as headshots, but I score them pretty highly if they appear effective. Hagler was smacking Leonard's body pretty hard, and it showed up later in the fight.

overall I just thought that Leonard's shots had little effect on Hagler, while Halger's punches were stronger, cleaner and were doing more damage. at least in the rounds he won.

close fight though, could have gone either way, no robbery. Hagler did start pretty late.

if fights was to be scored on how much effect a fighters punches have on an opponent then Hector Camacho Sr. and Paulie Malignaggi would have never won a single fight in their careers... anyone who watches Leonard v Hagler and says `Hagler won that fight`know nothing about the sport of boxing, it was a clear victory for Leonard, no matter what your scorecard reads at the end of the fight, it has to be a clear victory for Leonard.

bojangles1987
09-14-2009, 08:54 AM
I had it 115-113 Hagler. some people overlook his bodyshots or simply dont think they count as much as headshots, but I score them pretty highly if they appear effective. Hagler was smacking Leonard's body pretty hard, and it showed up later in the fight.

overall I just thought that Leonard's shots had little effect on Hagler, while Halger's punches were stronger, cleaner and were doing more damage. at least in the rounds he won.

close fight though, could have gone either way, no robbery. Hagler did start pretty late.

I had it the same. My biggest problem with the decision is that Leonard stole so many rounds in the first and last 20 seconds of rounds. I can't give a round to a guy who wins 40 seconds of that round and spends the other 1:50 getting beaten. Leonard even admits that's what he was doing. Hagler gave away too many early early rounds showing too much respect to Leonard to claim robbery, but that 118-110 scorecard was disgusting and that's the source of screams for robbery.

#1Assassin
09-14-2009, 09:01 AM
117-111 is just ignorant, proves you know jack **** about scoring a fight and shouldnt be taken seriously. i had it 115-114 hagler, 6-5-1 in rounds. i feel hagler deserved it cuz im a fan of pure boxers, so if i have the aggressor over the boxer, u know the aggressor earned it. end of the day u have to beat the champion clearly to take his crown, especially a great champion like hagler. which leonard did not do, the real robbery was that he didnt give hagler a rematch though. he really did in every way steal the titles away from hagler, didnt really win or earn them imo.

Dynamite Kid
09-14-2009, 09:35 AM
Im a Leonard fans and i think he won a close but clear decision but your card of 117-111 for leonard is waay to over the top.

mrboxer
09-14-2009, 09:40 AM
hagler got robbed i had hagler winning every round,i scored the fight 120 to108 ,hagler just dominated from start to finish leonard had 2 little spurts where he threw more than one punch at a time,hagler outpunched him threw more power connecting shots:beerchug:

TheGreatA
09-14-2009, 09:49 AM
Some people did give Leonard a chance, mainly Thomas Hearns who felt Hagler was getting up there in age.

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3:10

Here's an article that makes a case for Leonard, prior to the fight:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1127003/index.htm

"Ordinarily, Hagler should win, but when you start to analyze the thing, it's a toss-up," says Arcel. "Hagler has to fight the fight. He's got to set the pace, keep punching and keep off-setting this fella. If he lets Leonard get started, Leonard will outbox him for all 12 rounds."

- Ray Arcel

This was interesting:

If Hagler learned anything in the Duran fight, it was not to lie back and let the rounds pass by. Pat and Goody Petronelli, Hagler's handlers, learned a lot that night, too. "Who would have thought that Duran could outbox a Marvin Hagler?" Pat Petronelli asks. "We told Marvin, 'Lay back and counter-punch.' He's going to come at you. Duran took us to school."

Interestingly, Leonard also received the most notable learning experience of his career at the University of Duran. In their first fight, in Montreal in 1980, Leonard took the attack to Duran, who had 55 knockouts in 74 fights, and in 15 wild rounds narrowly lost his title. In the infamous rematch, taunting, humiliating and outboxing Duran, he won back his crown by forcing Duran to plead "no más."

So, the most obvious analysis is that Hagler will not fight Leonard as he fought Duran, lying back and allowing Leonard to dance and show-biz away his title, and Leonard will not fight Hagler as he fought Duran in Montreal, duking it out toe-to-toe. The Petronellis, and most everyone else, expect Leonard to put on a boxing show.

"It's no secret," says Pat. "I'm going to tell you here, right out straight. Leonard is going to do what he does best, and that is showboat, flash, be a young Ali. Jab, flurry, counter, clinch, jab, and let those rounds go by***8212;five, six, seven, eight***8212;and taunt Marvin, talk to Marvin, try to make fun of him, give him a funny face, try to get Marvin to blow his cool, to get him lunging and leaping at him."

As Hagler says with such sibilant menace, what he must do to win is exert pressssurrrrrrre. "If you're going to tell me that Leonard's going to hit any harder or be any faster than Thomas Hearns, I don't know what to expect," says Hagler. "That was a very fast fight. Hearns was throwing very hard and very fast punches. There's no way, with the time Leonard's been off, that he can bounce back into that frame of mind. He's going to run. I basically just have to be patient."

But not too patient, lest the rounds slip away and Hagler ultimately finds himself in too much trouble too late. "He's probably anticipating stopping me on cuts," Hagler says. "I realize that I'm going to have to take some punches to get inside.... He don't like to be hit. He don't like pain. But I can absorb pain, I can absorb punches."

Each camp, of course, has been serving its man sparring partners instructed in his opponent's style. "I've been told to box Marvin," says James Lucas, a quick 152-pounder. "Try to do things Sugar Ray would do. Fake him, try to throw Marvin off his rhythm, try to keep him moving, tie him up." There were moments in his training camp when Hagler's swift sparring partners did indeed throw him off his rhythm. Hagler would end up chasing them and lunging with looping rights or lefts that missed badly.



Setting himself, with an immobile Leonard covering and bobbing before him, Hagler lets fire all the artillery, a furious combination that ends with a right hook to the head, dropping Leonard to a knee and bringing in the referee to wave the fight to a stop.

All history and logic point to such an end, but those twin supports of correct thought have been violated before. Hagler opened in the Vegas books as the 4 to 1 favorite, but since then the odds have settled to a more realistic 3 to 1, and by fight time they should be closer still. For some, such as Shelly Finkel, the manager of WBA welterweight champ Mark Breland, the odds are out of whack. "I think Hagler has slipped tremendously," Finkel says. "He got hit plenty by Mugabi. If Ray has his legs under him, I don't think Hagler has a chance."

The guess here is that Leonard has both his legs beneath him, and in defiance of history and logic, he will win.

BigMacFoster
09-14-2009, 10:21 AM
I wonder what old Pat Putnam's thoughts on the fight were? He loved Sugar Ray Leonard did old Pat.


Come to think of it,What did a young finish(YES HE IS!) lad called TheGreatA predict on such a fight?

Did you worry for his health?

Did you wish to see him destroyed?

Or was you even around?



I had it the same. My biggest problem with the decision is that Leonard stole so many rounds in the first and last 20 seconds of rounds. I can't give a round to a guy who wins 40 seconds of that round and spends the other 1:50 getting beaten. Leonard even admits that's what he was doing. Hagler gave away too many early early rounds showing too much respect to Leonard to claim robbery, but that 118-110 scorecard was disgusting and that's the source of screams for robbery.


Just admit you've never even seen the fight,Watching the highly claimed HBO:Legendary night series doesn't tell you how an entire Bout played out unfortunately.Sometimes it actually helps to watch Boxing


It's ok to be a noob..........perhaps not at your age but we were all noobs at one point...........when we were children of course



end of the day u have to beat the champion clearly to take his crown, especially a great champion like hagler.

proves you know jack **** about scoring a fight and shouldnt be taken seriously.

I think your being a tad harsh on yourself here.

I thought the logic you used on how to score a fight was brilliant,Guy's a champion and if you can't knock him out,Then the guy remains champion right?

I personally love that logic

which leonard did not do, the real robbery was that he didnt give hagler a rematch though.


I think the marvelous one was already on the plane pouring his tears in to that extra large WHINE glass that his lavish first class ticket could afford.


It's a shame that such a great champion ran off crying like a broken hearted school girl instead of taking the decision on the chin

GJC
09-14-2009, 12:56 PM
This came up in another thread a couple of months back, I watched it then and had it a draw. As I don't like draws if I had to give anyone the nod it would be Hagler. Though whatever your view it wasn't a robbery just a very close fight.

bojangles1987
09-14-2009, 01:17 PM
Just admit you've never even seen the fight,Watching the highly claimed HBO:Legendary night series doesn't tell you how an entire Bout played out unfortunately.Sometimes it actually helps to watch Boxing


It's ok to be a noob..........perhaps not at your age but we were all noobs at one point...........when we were children of course

I've seen the entire fight multiple times. Does it make people feel better about themselves to act like they know more than everyone else and make stupid claims like "you've never seen the fight" if someone disagrees with them? Leonard didn't use the late round flurry strategy every round, and at no point did I say that, but he said that was part of his strategy and it was how he won many close rounds. I didn't give him all those close rounds, that's why I have it 115-113 Hagler and not 115-113 Leonard. Either fighter can be considered the winner of the fight, the only thing I have a problem with is the 118-110 scorecard, which is a joke.

My argument for Hagler winning the fight is that he was effectively aggressive when he stopped showing Leonard too much respect. In the close rounds the two would fight even but Hagler's punches had more effect and I prefer consistent hurting punches that Hagler landed to the punches Leonard was throwing in the middle of the fight that weren't having much effect on Hagler.

sonnyboyx2
09-14-2009, 01:39 PM
117-111 is just ignorant, proves you know jack **** about scoring a fight and shouldnt be taken seriously. i had it 115-114 hagler, 6-5-1 in rounds. i feel hagler deserved it cuz im a fan of pure boxers, so if i have the aggressor over the boxer, u know the aggressor earned it. end of the day u have to beat the champion clearly to take his crown, especially a great champion like hagler. which leonard did not do, the real robbery was that he didnt give hagler a rematch though. he really did in every way steal the titles away from hagler, didnt really win or earn them imo.
Hagler never asked for a rematch with Leonard BUT Thomas Hearns called for a rematch with Hagler after breaking his famous right-hand in the opening round of their fight yet Hagler wanted no part of it

Steak
09-14-2009, 04:05 PM
if fights was to be scored on how much effect a fighters punches have on an opponent then Hector Camacho Sr. and Paulie Malignaggi would have never won a single fight in their careers... anyone who watches Leonard v Hagler and says `Hagler won that fight`know nothing about the sport of boxing, it was a clear victory for Leonard, no matter what your scorecard reads at the end of the fight, it has to be a clear victory for Leonard.
Camacho Sr only spent the downside of his career throwing pitty pat punches, for a lot of it he was a nasty puncher.

and those 'lighter' punches still do damage. If they actually did 'nothing', then fighters would just walk the other guy down without bothering to use defense.

its not uncommon for those lighter punches to add up and be doing more damage than the other guy can inflict in the round, which legitimately wins them the round. which is why I had Leonard winning 5 of them in the Hagler fight.

I think instead that you have no idea how to score a fight, if you dont even try to score punches based on how clean, effective and damaging they are.

pedro1098
09-21-2009, 04:54 PM
i think at the time hagler could have called it a day back in 86 but he REALLY wanted the sugar man, back in 85 the night hagler sent hearns into orbit i honestly belive no 160lb boxer EVER would have beat hagler that night, when marvin got a sniff sugar might "do it",team hagler gave in to sugars demands.. 1; a big ring,the plan was to dance/run call it what ever you will, 2; 12 rounds,the wba/ibf were 15 rounders but wbc somehow made the title up for grabs for the winner even tho sugar was inactive..? marvin showed sugar way to much respect early on,he knew he was slipping & so did his team. ray won the fight in the ring/out the ring.

Benncollinsaad
09-21-2009, 05:22 PM
6-5-1 Hagler, 115-114.

Obama
09-21-2009, 08:17 PM
7-5 Leonard last time I watched, about a year ago.

them_apples
09-21-2009, 10:54 PM
man it was a close fight

I first had it for Leonard, but damn it was close...i don't know..


you can't score flash