View Full Version : Whats so great about Pernell Whitaker??


Benncollinsaad
09-11-2009, 10:36 AM
Ok, I know he had a fantastic defense. But you gotta have more than just that and a few tricks to be worthy of the title ATG. I just don't see how he qualifies for that title. He lost to DLH and Trinidad, two best WWs of the 90's. And I know he lost clearly, everybody that says anything else is talking BS!

I think he is overated. He didn't beat that many great fighters. Who did he beat? Roger Mayweather, who imo was not a great fighter, just very good. And he floored Whitaker once in that fight and made it close. JC Chavez...I dunno, I haven't seen that fight really but I know its considered a controversial draw. Judging by the comments made on the DLH fight I am sceptical about the controversy.:rolleyes:

Silencers
09-11-2009, 11:13 AM
Whitaker fought a lot of top 10 guys during his time, unified a division, was considered one of the pound for pound best for years and didn't have a legitimate loss until he started slipping and was high on coke.

I would also suggest more of his fights to see why he isn't just a HOFer but an ATG.

Doctor_Tenma
09-11-2009, 11:15 AM
Ok, I know he had a fantastic defense. But you gotta have more than just that and a few tricks to be worthy of the title ATG. I just don't see how he qualifies for that title. He lost to DLH and Trinidad, two best WWs of the 90's. And I know he lost clearly, everybody that says anything else is talking BS!

I think he is overated. He didn't beat that many great fighters. Who did he beat? Roger Mayweather, who imo was not a great fighter, just very good. And he floored Whitaker once in that fight and made it close. JC Chavez...I dunno, I haven't seen that fight really but I know its considered a controversial draw. Judging by the comments made on the DLH fight I am sceptical about the controversy.:rolleyes:

Educate yourself, please.

Benncollinsaad
09-11-2009, 11:17 AM
Educate yourself, please.

I suppose you should do that to me? Prick.

Benncollinsaad
09-11-2009, 11:19 AM
Whitaker fought a lot of top 10 guys during his time, unified a division, was considered one of the pound for pound best for years and didn't have a legitimate loss until he started slipping and was high on coke.

I would also suggest more of his fights to see why he isn't just a HOFer but an ATG.

He's only considered ATG in America. But its the same, since its Americans who make the ATGs.:rolleyes: Furthermore, he was a dirty fighter who was threw a lot of low blows and kept shoving DLH.

catalinul
09-11-2009, 11:24 AM
Wow,where do you get this?

Whitaker is a top 15-20 ATG IMO.

He was p4p no 1 for a long time,first undisputed champ at lightweight since Duran,won titles at 140,147 and 154.
He beat extremely good fighters in Chavez,Nelson and had plenty of other very good wins,Ramirez(where he was robbed in one fight),Haugen,McGirt(twice),Vasquez,Rivera(twice), Paez,ec.

You gotta take into account most his wins were dominant shoutout wins against top competition while he was going up in weight and had little KO power,that combined with his style of not running made him awesome.
Why even bring up de la Hoya and Trinidad?He was past his prime with Oscar and still arguably beat him and he was really done by Triinidad and still went the distance.

Doctor_Tenma
09-11-2009, 11:28 AM
You said that Roger Mayweather's K.D of Whitaker made it close? I can clearly see you didn't watch that fight, wasn't even a close fight. That was a dominating performance by Whitaker, the K.D didn't do anything. Then you admitted to not seeing Whitaker vs JCC, no debate, that was a clear victory against JCC, one of the greatest Jr WWs of all time. Aren't you the same dude who tried to convince us DLH clearly beat Whitaker, in that same thread, so many people thought otherwise. To answer your question, he beat...

1. Azumah Nelson
2. JLR
3. JCC
4. JCV
5. Greg Haugen
6. Buddy McGirt
7. Hurtado
8. Paez
9. (In My Opinion) DLH

In the DLH fight, commentators were already talking about Whitaker's slippage. Yet there's a problem with losing to one of the greatest WWs in Felix Trinidad 2 years after that? Not trying to go hard on you, but don't call overrated what you know nothing about.

Silencers
09-11-2009, 11:36 AM
He's only considered ATG in America. But its the same, since its Americans who make the ATGs.:rolleyes: Furthermore, he was a dirty fighter who was threw a lot of low blows and kept shoving DLH.

The only way to make you change your mind is for you to look at more of his fights. You seem to have only watched the fights he had when he was over the hill and high on coke. And dirty fighter? No, he knew how to get rough in the trenches and low blows are bound to happen when a guy goes to the body with regularity like Whitaker did.

Doctor_Tenma
09-11-2009, 11:45 AM
Never seen a better display of body punching then what Pernell Whitaker showed. I mean really, his body attack made me cringe. He wasn't a devastating puncher ofcourse but those shots took their tole on anyone. Dude had JCC gasping for air. When I'm talking about his display of body punching, I'm talking "Placement".

Joe2608
09-11-2009, 11:56 AM
You need to watch earlier fights. You seem to be basing your opinion on his later fights where he was on coke and past prime.

mrboxer
09-11-2009, 12:09 PM
a good jab,that is about all he had and a big mouth average fighter only:boxing:

Stoppage
09-11-2009, 12:32 PM
Please. Pernell Whitaker is one of the greatest boxers of all-time.

He was considered the pound for pound best for many years. Won titles at 135, 140, 147 and 154. He beat the best of the best.

I think you should do a little research on the fighters he beat.

Dynamite Kid
09-11-2009, 12:38 PM
Ok, I know he had a fantastic defense. But you gotta have more than just that and a few tricks to be worthy of the title ATG. I just don't see how he qualifies for that title. He lost to DLH and Trinidad, two best WWs of the 90's. And I know he lost clearly, everybody that says anything else is talking BS!

I think he is overated. He didn't beat that many great fighters. Who did he beat? Roger Mayweather, who imo was not a great fighter, just very good. And he floored Whitaker once in that fight and made it close. JC Chavez...I dunno, I haven't seen that fight really but I know its considered a controversial draw. Judging by the comments made on the DLH fight I am sceptical about the controversy.:rolleyes:



First and foremost Whitaker was past his prime when he fought both DLH & Trinidad.

Niether DLH or Whitaker lost a clear decision because neither fighter was that dominant in the fight, it was a an extremely difficult for to score with no clear winner, hence the reason i called it a draw.


Azumah Nelson, Buddy McGirt, Jose Luis Ramirez?

J C Vasquez a natural 145lbs and a guy that put Winky on the floor how many times ?

Dominated Greg Haugen easily, Beat Mayweather clearly.



Trust me it (Chavez) was definitely a win for Whitaker but not the complete shut out people would have you believe, but he clearly won by at least! 3 rounds.

He is not only an ATG but he is the most skilled fighter ive ever seen and i dont base that on a handful of fights i base that on 20+ fights ive seen of his, he was a great! fighter.

You cant make assumptions based on two fights where he was past prime, otherwise what would you make of Duran's career post 154?

Benncollinsaad
09-11-2009, 12:42 PM
You need to watch earlier fights. You seem to be basing your opinion on his later fights where he was on coke and past prime.

I am watching the Chavez fight. I just don't like his type of fighters. Ducking and evading punches all the time and throwing mostly jabs-thats not my idea of a good, exciting fighter. But each his own taste. You guys are talking about him like he was fighting in the best era of boxing, which is pretty far from truth. These latino guys, they were used to rumble and thats why Whitaker's style confused them. Whitaker had no power and he wasn't one of the fastest fighters either.

And I maintain that the DLH fight wasn't at all that close or difficult to score. He was losing and therefore he started using dirty tactics.

Dynamite Kid
09-11-2009, 12:43 PM
You said that Roger Mayweather's K.D of Whitaker made it close? I can clearly see you didn't watch that fight, wasn't even a close fight. That was a dominating performance by Whitaker, the K.D didn't do anything. Then you admitted to not seeing Whitaker vs JCC, no debate, that was a clear victory against JCC, one of the greatest Jr WWs of all time. Aren't you the same dude who tried to convince us DLH clearly beat Whitaker, in that same thread, so many people thought otherwise. To answer your question, he beat...

1. Azumah Nelson
2. JLR
3. JCC
4. JCV
5. Greg Haugen
6. Buddy McGirt
7. Hurtado
8. Paez
9. (In My Opinion) DLH

In the DLH fight, commentators were already talking about Whitaker's slippage. Yet there's a problem with losing to one of the greatest WWs in Felix Trinidad 2 years after that? Not trying to go hard on you, but don't call overrated what you know nothing about.

Co-Sign.

I dont know why people think the Mayweather fight was close, Whitaker was beating Mayweather up inside and that lone KD was the only success Mayweather had in the entire fight and that only happened because Whitaker was taking more chances because he was so dominant.

Benncollinsaad
09-11-2009, 12:49 PM
Co-Sign.

I dont know why people think the Mayweather fight was close, Whitaker was beating Mayweather up inside and that lone KD was the only success Mayweather had in the entire fight and that only happened because Whitaker was taking more chances because he was so dominant.

Both his fights with McGirt were close and he was knocked down in the second. But he had the judges on his side and especially in the second fight the scorecards were much wider than they were supposed to be.

Dynamite Kid
09-11-2009, 12:55 PM
I am watching the Chavez fight. I just don't like his type of fighters. Ducking and evading punches all the time and throwing mostly jabs-thats not my idea of a good, exciting fighter. But each his own taste. You guys are talking about him like he was fighting in the best era of boxing, which is pretty far from truth. These latino guys, they were used to rumble and thats why Whitaker's style confused them. Whitaker had no power and he wasn't one of the fastest fighters either.

And I maintain that the DLH fight wasn't at all that close or difficult to score. He was losing and therefore he started using dirty tactics.


You cant say this because you have not seen enough of him.

How on earth can you say the DLH/Whitaker fight was not hard to score, it was extremely hard to score the rounds. No offence but You are very biased towards DLH imo.

Ill tell you the truth Whitaker was not exciting in his biggest fights and that is why he gets a bad rap and classed as boring when he was far from it, its just he fought a tactical fight against Nelson, DLH, Chavez.

Whitaker did not just beat good fighters he white washed them, Haugen was a good fighter and Whitaker made him look a fool, same scenario with JLR.

Brazier, Cardona were aslo made to look stupid and got dominated completely.


You say Whitaker could not punch ? he was not a big puncher by any stretch but he could hurt you or knock you out. Gary Jacobs had a good chin and Whitaker had him in major trouble when that fight ended, he was lucky to survive. Hurtado got brutally knocked out by Whitaker, Mayweather was almost knocked out in 1/2 round.


This is a terrible thread to make when you have not even seen him fight in his prime.

Dynamite Kid
09-11-2009, 12:59 PM
Both his fights with McGirt were close and he was knocked down in the second. But he had the judges on his side and especially in the second fight the scorecards were much wider than they were supposed to be.

Off balance like many of his KD's.

Its been a while since i saw the McGirt fights but from what i remember McGirt did okay for 5/6 rounds but it was all Whitaker after that and the second fight was a clear!! win for Whitaker.

Benncollinsaad
09-11-2009, 01:00 PM
You cant say this because you have not seen enough of him.

How on earth can you say the DLH/Whitaker fight was not hard to score, it was extremely hard to score the rounds. No offence but You are very biased towards DLH imo.

Ill tell you the truth Whitaker was not exciting in his biggest fights and that is why he gets a bad rap and classed as boring when he was far from it, its just he fought a tactical fight against Nelson, DLH, Chavez.

Whitaker did not just beat good fighters he white washed them, Haugen was a good fighter and Whitaker made him look a fool, same scenario with JLR.

Brazier, Cardona were aslo made to look stupid and got dominated completely.


You say Whitaker could not punch ? he was not a big puncher by any stretch but he could hurt you or knock you out. Gary Jacobs had a good chin and Whitaker had him in major trouble when that fight ended, he was lucky to survive. Hurtado got brutally knocked out by Whitaker, Mayweather was almost knocked out in 1/2 round.


This is a terrible thread to make when you have not even seen him fight in his prime.
You mean Diosbelys Hurtado, who had him down twice before he gassed out in the late rounds and lost? Baah! And what about Jose Luis Ramirez? The first man who beat Whitaker. I see on boxrec this also is considered a "robbery"...hmm, isnt it funny that each time Whitaker lost or had a draw it was a ROBBERY!:rolleyes: Come on, lets get serious...you guys are biased because you like him. Everybody is biased! So cut the crap.

Dynamite Kid
09-11-2009, 01:08 PM
You mean Diosbelys Hurtado, who had him down twice before he gassed out in the late rounds and lost? Baah! And what about Jose Luis Ramirez? The first man who beat Whitaker. I see on boxrec this also is considered a "robbery"...hmm, isnt it funny that each time Whitaker lost or had a draw it was a ROBBERY!:rolleyes: Come on, lets get serious...you guys are biased because you like him. Everybody is biased! So cut the crap.


Yeah him, if you dont mention Diosbelys Hurtado then i wont talk about DLH getting beat down by a midget and quitting! on his stool, getting his ears boxed off by Oba Carr, quitting against B Hop, getting bested by a Lightweight (Mosley) and robbing both Quartey and Sturm.


I can be unbiased about this but why should i do that when its clear you intend to let biased cloud your judgment opinion? we can all sit here and shoot fighters down in flames.

On JLR vs Whitaker watch it and score the fight then come back and tell me who won.

Is it anymore ironic than DLH losing almost every big fight he had been in?

TheGreatA
09-11-2009, 01:11 PM
You mean Diosbelys Hurtado, who had him down twice before he gassed out in the late rounds and lost? Baah! And what about Jose Luis Ramirez? The first man who beat Whitaker. I see on boxrec this also is considered a "robbery"...hmm, isnt it funny that each time Whitaker lost or had a draw it was a ROBBERY!:rolleyes: Come on, lets get serious...you guys are biased because you like him. Everybody is biased! So cut the crap.

My only suggestion is that you stop looking at his boxrec record and actually look at his fights.

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Doctor_Tenma
09-11-2009, 01:12 PM
You mean Diosbelys Hurtado, who had him down twice before he gassed out in the late rounds and lost? Baah! And what about Jose Luis Ramirez? The first man who beat Whitaker. I see on boxrec this also is considered a "robbery"...hmm, isnt it funny that each time Whitaker lost or had a draw it was a ROBBERY!:rolleyes: Come on, lets get serious...you guys are biased because you like him. Everybody is biased! So cut the crap.

You're an idiot. We're all telling you to watch, YET you speak of it as you've seen it. Pernell Whitaker dominated JLR in their first bout, it was a one-sided/ non-competitive fight. Go see for yourself. That was actually one of the biggest robberies in boxing.

Benncollinsaad
09-11-2009, 01:19 PM
You're an idiot. We're all telling you to watch, YET you speak of it as you've seen it. Pernell Whitaker dominated JLR in their first bout, it was a one-sided/ non-competitive fight. Go see for yourself. That was actually one of the biggest robberies in boxing.

I havent finished watch the Chavez fight. So piss off, please!

Benncollinsaad
09-11-2009, 01:21 PM
Btw, I've noticed something: all these guys that you are showing me on videos are smaller than him. And they are obviously not big punchers either. So forgive me if I still question the greatness of those wins. Also the fact that most of them aren't ATG's or HOFs is notable.

Dynamite Kid
09-11-2009, 01:23 PM
Btw, I've noticed something: all these guys that you are showing me on videos are smaller than him. And they are obviously not big punchers either. So forgive me if I still question the greatness of those wins. Also the fact that none of them are mentioned that often.


Did you also notice that Whitaker is not exactly Alexis Arguello in size.


Rafael Pineda, Roger Mayweather were not big punchers
:rofl::rofl:

Benncollinsaad
09-11-2009, 01:24 PM
Did you also notice that Whitaker is not exactly Alexis Arguello in size.


Rafael Pineda, Roger Mayweather were not big punchers
:rofl::rofl:

No, not really. And Whitaker obviously had a chin. Mayweather was not a two-handed puncher anyway. And Pineda, who's he anyway? Who has he beaten, except for the chinachined Mayweather?

Benncollinsaad
09-11-2009, 01:27 PM
I've just seen the big lowblow Whitaker did on Chavez. And this is the guy you all admire??:nonono:

Doctor_Tenma
09-11-2009, 01:28 PM
Btw, I've noticed something: all these guys that you are showing me on videos are smaller than him. And they are obviously not big punchers either. So forgive me if I still question the greatness of those wins. Also the fact that most of them aren't ATG's or HOFs is notable.

Azumah Nelson and JCC are two ATGs.

Dynamite Kid
09-11-2009, 01:29 PM
No, not really. And Whitaker obviously had a chin. Mayweather was not a two-handed puncher anyway. And Pineda, who's he anyway? Who has he beaten, except for the chinachined Mayweather?

Let me get this straight Mayweather, Pineda were not big punchers. Mayweather was considered one of, if not the biggest puncher in his division.

Mayweather was not a two handed puncher ? neither was DLH but what difference does it make?

You also say DLH beat Whitaker clearly and that he beat Quartey, tell me do you think he beat Sturm to ?

Dynamite Kid
09-11-2009, 01:31 PM
I've just seen the big lowblow Whitaker did on Chavez. And this is the guy you all admire??:nonono:

You admire a guy that quit on his stool and threw a fight and retired in shame.

Benncollinsaad
09-11-2009, 01:33 PM
You also say DLH beat Whitaker clearly and that he beat Quartey, tell me do you think he beat Sturm to ?
He did not, but it was not a shutout victory for Sturm.

You admire a guy that quit on his stool and threw a fight and retired in shame.

You are obviously a DLH hater. Are you from Mexico by any chance?:rolleyes:

Dynamite Kid
09-11-2009, 01:34 PM
I suppose this guy was not a puncher to ? thats right that is Winky Wright on the canvas.

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Nelson was no puncher either ?

Benncollinsaad
09-11-2009, 01:36 PM
I suppose this guy was not a puncher to ? thats right that is Winky Wright on the canvas.

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Nelson was no puncher either ?

I don't know about him. But Wright was very green back then. I already said that Whitaker did have a great defence, so he knew how to neutralize and confuse punchers.

Dynamite Kid
09-11-2009, 01:36 PM
He did not, but it was not a shutout victory for Sturm.



You are obviously a DLH hater. Are you from Mexico by any chance?:rolleyes:

Im not a DLH hater you are just biased towards him. What ever stick you can beat Whitaker with can be used against DLH to.

Im from England.

Dynamite Kid
09-11-2009, 01:38 PM
I don't know about him. But Wright was very green back then. I already said that Whitaker did have a great defence, so he knew how to neutralize and confuse punchers.

Green or not he was a natural 154 pounder that got smacked about, that is not the issue though what is the issue is you said he never faced punchers and that is wrong, clearly.

Benncollinsaad
09-11-2009, 01:39 PM
Green or not he was a natural 154 pounder that got smacked about, that is not the issue though what is the issue is you said he never faced punchers and that is wrong, clearly.

I never said that. I just said THOSE guys on the videos don't look like punchers to me.

Doctor_Tenma
09-11-2009, 01:43 PM
Azumah Nelson, JCV, JCC, Tito, DLH, Roger Mayweather. Pretty much, all punchers.

Dynamite Kid
09-11-2009, 01:46 PM
I never said that. I just said THOSE guys on the videos don't look like punchers to me.

Well lets take a look.

Azumah Nelson knocked out Pat Cowdell in 1 round this guy went 15 rounds with Salvador Sanchez, he Tko'd Wilfredo Gomez, scored a brutal KO of Danilo Cabrera, blasted Jesse James Leija in their 3rd fight, and TKO'ed Jeff Fenech.

JLR record............111 (82 KO)

Benncollinsaad
09-11-2009, 01:50 PM
Well lets take a look.

Azumah Nelson knocked out Pat Cowdell in 1 round this guy went 15 rounds with Salvador Sanchez, he Tko'd Wilfredo Gomez, scored a brutal KO of Danilo Cabrera, blasted Jesse James Leija in their 3rd fight, and TKO'ed Jeff Fenech.

JLR record............111 (82 KO)

Whatever, as I said punchers never really had much chance against such a fighter, defensive master. I reconsidered my statement. But the point remains, Whitaker did lose fights while still in his prime, two of them.

Doctor_Tenma
09-11-2009, 01:52 PM
Whatever, as I said punchers never really had much chance against such a fighter, defensive master. I reconsidered my statement. But the point remains, Whitaker did lose fights while still in his prime, two of them.

Name them? Did you watch them?

Benncollinsaad
09-11-2009, 01:52 PM
I'd really liked to see him fight Tszyu. Tszyu would probably ko him.

street bully
09-11-2009, 01:55 PM
I'd really liked to see him fight Tszyu. Tszyu would probably ko him.

Prime for Prime Tzu would get out boxed, and lose 120-108. Trinidad with his magic wraps couldn't KO a more or less shot Whitaker on coke, Tzu never would.

Dynamite Kid
09-11-2009, 01:56 PM
Whatever, as I said punchers never really had much chance against such a fighter, defensive master. I reconsidered my statement. But the point remains, Whitaker did lose fights while still in his prime, two of them.


Whatever ? thats a good argument to come back with.

No you said .........none of those guys were big punchers, you are changing your tune now for obvious reasons.

How was he still in his prime, he was 32 when he fought DLH if i remember right and his battle with cocaine was pretty much common knowledge.

Its ironic that you brought up Whitaker being naturally bigger than his opponents, which he wasn't, because DLH was fighting at LW when he should of been a WW.

Dynamite Kid
09-11-2009, 01:57 PM
I'd really liked to see him fight Tszyu. Tszyu would probably ko him.

Tszyu had enough trouble with Roger Mayweather let alone Whitaker.

Benncollinsaad
09-11-2009, 02:02 PM
Tszyu had enough trouble with Roger Mayweather let alone Whitaker.

Lol! He beat Mayweather easily. Tszyu was undisputed LWW champ-thats a fact! He beat some men that would give Whitaker a hard time.

Dynamite Kid
09-11-2009, 02:05 PM
Lol! He beat Mayweather easily. Now I'm starting to think you got something against non-black fighters. Tszyu was undisputed LWW champ-thats a fact! He beat some men that would give Whitaker a hard time.

Im not saying he never won!! clearly, im saying he struggled to dominate him decisively.

Its funny you should say that because i feel you have so many Latin fighters and white fighters in your sig with the token black fighter for a reason.......Hungry Herbet.

Benncollinsaad
09-11-2009, 02:08 PM
Im not saying he never won!! clearly, im saying he struggled to dominate him decisively.

Its funny you should say that because i feel you have so many Latin fighters and white fighters in your sig with the token black fighter for a reason.......Hungry Herbet.

I can say the same about your sig-in reverse. And can you explain the last part starting with "the token black fighter.."?

Doctor_Tenma
09-11-2009, 02:08 PM
Lol! He beat Mayweather easily. Tszyu was undisputed LWW champ-thats a fact! He beat some men that would give Whitaker a hard time.

Your words not mine, "Roger Mayweather is china chinned", Tszyu didn't even take Roger Mayweather out. Yet I suppose, Your words again "Kostya Tszyu would have K.O'd Whitaker". Someone help you...

Dynamite Kid
09-11-2009, 02:10 PM
I can say the same about your sig-in reverse. And can you explain the last part starting with "the token black fighter.."?

You cant because im white, i have no motive for that reason. I like slick fighters and thats why i like black fighters, not to say that there are no slick latin or white fighters but they are few and far between.

Most the greatest fighters are black anyway, that is just a fact.

mrboxer
09-11-2009, 02:17 PM
you are not making sense at all,if you believe that you are living in a dream world,what kind of statement is that are you feeling okay,think about it and start using your head:boxing:

Benncollinsaad
09-11-2009, 02:23 PM
You cant because im white, i have no motive for that reason. I like slick fighters and thats why i like black fighters, not to say that there are no slick latin or white fighters but they are few and far between.

Most the greatest fighters are black anyway, that is just a fact.

I meant that you favor black fighters more. And I think its a little prejudiced to say that most the greatest fighters are black. That is a personal opinion anyway. Who is considered a great fighter? There have been just as many great Latin fighters imo.

Benncollinsaad
09-11-2009, 02:26 PM
Hearns, Benn and Saad are among my top 5 fav fighters ever. What does that tell you? Since when has not liking Pernell Whitaker become synonymous with racism??:rolleyes:

Dynamite Kid
09-11-2009, 02:32 PM
I meant that you favor black fighters more. And I think its a little prejudiced to say that most the greatest fighters are black. That is a personal opinion anyway. Who is considered a great fighter? There have been just as many great Latin fighters imo.

Hearns, Benn and Saad are among my top 5 fav fighters ever. What does that tell you? Since when has not liking Pernell Whitaker become synonymous with racism??:rolleyes:

Yeah i do but not because i have something against white fighters, which is what you seemed to be pointing to, otherwise why even bring it up.

I dont see how its prejudice because it should makes no difference whether most successful fighters are white or black.

If you need any clarification just make a poll about it.

No one said not liking Pernell Whitaker was synonymous with racism but you brought colour into the equation, not me.

Benncollinsaad
09-11-2009, 03:04 PM
Yeah i do but not because i have something against white fighters, which is what you seemed to be pointing to, otherwise why even bring it up.

I dont see how its prejudice because it should makes no difference whether most successful fighters are white or black.

If you need any clarification just make a poll about it.

No one said not liking Pernell Whitaker was synonymous with racism but you brought colour into the equation, not me.

Ok. Can we forget that? You were unfortunate enough to see the original post before it was edited. I wasn't thinking when I posted that stuff about you not liking non-black fighters. I regret making that remark. It was stupid.

Doctor_Tenma
09-11-2009, 03:06 PM
Ok. Can we forget that? You were unfortunate enough to see the original post before it was edited. I wasn't thinking when I posted that stuff about you not liking non-black fighters. I regret making that remark. It was stupid.

Not as stupid as this thread's starting post.

Dynamite Kid
09-11-2009, 03:07 PM
Ok. Can we forget that? You were unfortunate enough to see the original post before it was edited. I wasn't thinking when I posted that stuff about you not liking non-black fighters. I regret making that remark. It was stupid.

Im sorry to :luvbed:

Ha Ha.

Benncollinsaad
09-11-2009, 03:16 PM
Not as stupid as this thread's starting post.

Or as your sig.:D

BigMacFoster
09-11-2009, 05:43 PM
Pernell Whitaker fanboys are deluded enough to believe that Julio cesar Chavez was in his prime when Whitaker supposedly beat him,Chavez was on the decline around this point in his career and wasn't a welterweight at any stretch.


The problem with Whitaker is that he gets rated too highly,I don't care about how skilled a guy is,All that matters to a guys legacy is who he beat and while he does have a very good resume,There are many fighters with better lists

Steak
09-11-2009, 09:43 PM
Whitaker beat...
-Roger Mayweather, former best at 130lbs and went on to be the best(maybe 2nd best) at 140lbs after the Whitaker fight
-Jose Luis Ramirez, who was rated in the top 3 and held a belt
-Greg Haugen, who was rated in the top 3 and held a belt
-Freddie Pendleton, who was rated in the top 5
-Azumah Nelson, one of the best 130lb fighters ever who went on and continued success at that weight until he was about 38 years old
-Anthony Jones, who was top ten rated
-Juan Nazario, title holder at 135 and in the top 5
-Policarpo Diaz, who was rated in the top 5
-Jorge Paez, former title holder
-Rafael Pineda, top 5 rated and held a belt
-Buddy McGirt, best in the world at 147lbs
-Julio Cesar Chavez, who was somewhat on the way down but still easily the best fighter at 140lbs at the time and a hell of a fighter in general
-Buddy McGirt again, top 4 rated
-Julio Cesar Vasquez, best fighter in the world at 154lbs
-Jake Rodriquez, former title holder at 140lbs
-Wilfredo Rivera, top ten rated

he might have even gotten a win over a prime or near prime DLH, despite Whitaker being clearly past his prime and probably on crack.

I dont know why I bothered doing that though. all you have to do is watch some of his fights...the guy was unbelievable.

he was far, FAR more than just a great defensive fighter.

Obama
09-11-2009, 09:50 PM
<meta http-equiv="CONTENT-TYPE" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><title></title><meta name="GENERATOR" content="OpenOffice.org 3.0 (Win32)"><style type="text/css"> <!-- @page { margin: 0.79in } P { margin-bottom: 0.08in } --> </style> Pernell Whitaker:
Notable Wins:
John Montes
Roger Mayweather
Miguel Santana
Greg Haugen (Future HOFer)
Jose Luis Ramirez [Past his prime]
Freddie Pendleton
Azumah Nelson (HOFer)
Anthony Jones
Policarpo Diaz [Undefeated]
Jorge Paez
Harold Brazier
Rafael Pineda
Buddy McGirt (x2) (Top p4p fighter)
Julio Cesar Vazquez (Potential Future HOFer)
Wilfredo Rivera (x2) [Undefeated]
Diosbelys Hurtado [Undefeated]
Notable Losses:
Jose Luis Ramirez I
Oscar De La Hoya *Whitaker past his prime
Questionable Wins:
Wilfredo Rivera I
Questionable Losses:
Jose Luis Ramirez I
Oscar De La Hoya (Future HOFer)
Questionable Draws:
Julio Cesar Chavez (HOFer) [Whitaker clearly won in a catch weight fight]



Great fighter. Trinidad loss not considered notable because Whitaker was clearly over the hill...

Burning Desire
09-11-2009, 09:52 PM
Pernell Whitaker dominated Buddy McGirt in there 2nd meeting, even Buddy McGirt said after the fight my shoulder was fine. I just got beat by the better man, the 1st fight was reasonably close but still a 7-5 win for Pernell Whitaker.

Pernell Whitaker only lost one fight IMO, and that was too Felix Trinidad while being way past his prime. And remind me how many people went the distance with a prime Felix Trinidad ?

kaki
09-11-2009, 09:53 PM
why the **** are you people replying to this ****ing moron? he obviously formed his opinion on whitaker before he even started watching him.

he doesn't even know who azumah nelson is.

i doubt he's watched more than one matthew saad muhammad fight if any.

Burning Desire
09-11-2009, 10:00 PM
You mean Diosbelys Hurtado, who had him down twice before he gassed out in the late rounds and lost? Baah! And what about Jose Luis Ramirez? The first man who beat Whitaker. I see on boxrec this also is considered a "robbery"...hmm, isnt it funny that each time Whitaker lost or had a draw it was a ROBBERY!:rolleyes: Come on, lets get serious...you guys are biased because you like him. Everybody is biased! So cut the crap.


Uhh you clearly haven't got a clue about Pernell Whitaker, how in the world can you have an opinion when you clearly haven't seen those fights, and have just looked on boxrec then you tell us were biased, when we've actually seen the fights, and you haven't WTF how does that work ?

Pernell Whitaker was down twice briefly against Diosbelys Hurtado, while being past his prime. But he still comeback showed the heart of a champion, and he damn near killed Diosbelys Hurtado who was drapped over the ropes out cold.

Diosbelys Hurtado also dropped Kostya Tszyu twice in there fight, lastly every single boxing fan in the world, who has seen JLC vs Pernell Whitaker 1 knows it was a robbery. It was a clear 8-4 win for Pernell Whitaker, but still Pernell Whitaker beat him even worse in the rematch.

JAB5239
09-12-2009, 01:30 AM
Greg Haugen (Future HOFer)

First off to the thread starter.......Whitaker was every bit as great as he's been talked about in this thread. P4P the best fighter since Duran and Leonard. His style never appealed to me either, but that doesn't mean he wasn't absolutely incredible.

Obama.....do you really think Haugen is a future HOFer, and why? Im hoping you make a great argument for him as that would mean Vinny Pazienza would probably be in too considering he had the better career in my opinion, and was much more popular. I don't see either of them making it but would love for Paz to get in as we're from the same neighborhood.

oldgringo
09-12-2009, 01:39 AM
First off to the thread starter.......Whitaker was every bit as great as he's been talked about in this thread. P4P the best fighter since Duran and Leonard. His style never appealed to me either, but that doesn't mean he wasn't absolutely incredible.

Obama.....do you really think Haugen is a future HOFer, and why? Im hoping you make a great argument for him as that would mean Vinny Pazienza would probably be in too considering he had the better career in my opinion, and was much more popular. I don't see either of them making it but would love for Paz to get in as we're from the same neighborhood.

:lol1:

haha yeah that's taking things too far. haugen, to his credit, was something of an underrated fighter and was one of the better counter punchers at the lower weights for his time, but he sure as hell ain't making it in the hall of fame. still a good win for whitaker over an opponent who was in his prime. it's really the way pernell beat him that was so impressive. he completely undressed haugen and had him afraid to return fire in that fight. pea landed some vicious body blows throughout. i always loved those hooks he'd wing to the body.

1SILVA
09-12-2009, 01:39 AM
Ok, I know he had a fantastic defense. But you gotta have more than just that and a few tricks to be worthy of the title ATG. I just don't see how he qualifies for that title. He lost to DLH and Trinidad, two best WWs of the 90's. And I know he lost clearly, everybody that says anything else is talking BS!

I think he is overated. He didn't beat that many great fighters. Who did he beat? Roger Mayweather, who imo was not a great fighter, just very good. And he floored Whitaker once in that fight and made it close. JC Chavez...I dunno, I haven't seen that fight really but I know its considered a controversial draw. Judging by the comments made on the DLH fight I am sceptical about the controversy.:rolleyes:

Whitaker was the best defensive fighter I have ever seen and at worst the second greatest southpaw of all time(I won't argue if people say Hagler was better).

JAB5239
09-12-2009, 01:56 AM
:lol1:

haha yeah that's taking things too far. haugen, to his credit, was something of an underrated fighter and was one of the better counter punchers at the lower weights for his time, but he sure as hell ain't making it in the hall of fame. still a good win for whitaker over an opponent who was in his prime. it's really the way pernell beat him that was so impressive. he completely undressed haugen and had him afraid to return fire in that fight. pea landed some vicious body blows throughout. i always loved those hooks he'd wing to the body.

A thorough beating given to a good fighter by a great fighter. That was the 1989 version of Lacy-Calzaghe.

MANGLER
09-12-2009, 01:59 AM
Pea is a 4 division champ who beat a bunch of top comp over a long career. He never really lost til he was past it. And pretty much all his wins were schoolings where he str8 clowned his opponents. **** thread TS. :nonono:

oldgringo
09-12-2009, 02:07 AM
A thorough beating given to a good fighter by a great fighter. That was the 1989 version of Lacy-Calzaghe.

Yes, a virtuoso performance by the winning fighter in both instances. Both guys were southpaws who didn't have devastating punching power but landed everything but the kitchen sink on their inferior opponents. They dropped em, battered em and largely humiliated em.

Gotta respect Lacy and Haugen for taking those lashings like men though. Lesser fighters may have totally folded under those circumstances.

Silencers
09-12-2009, 06:25 AM
5. Pernell Whitaker (1984-2001, 40-4-1 with 17 knockouts): Put together any list of greatest defensive fighters and the man known by many as "Sweet Pea" will be front and center ***8211; or, more accurately, to the side, out of range or crouched inches from the floor. With the help of the superb George Benton, Whitaker mastered the most difficult style of all, which is to be virtually untouchable while remaining within his opponent***8217;s reach.

His array of slips, dips, sidesteps, spins and pivots not only made his opponents look silly they also set up an equally diverse offense. He possessed a stinging, accurate jab (a rarity for natural southpaws), a piercing left cross and an underrated body attack. Though capable of delivering quick knockouts (just ask Juan Nazario and his other four first round KO victims), Whitaker preferred blinding them with science and letting the embarrassingly lopsided nature of the judges***8217; scorecards speak for him.



Speaking of the scorecards, they are his most persuasive piece of evidence for his inclusion on this list. After losing a hotly disputed split decision to Jose Luis Ramirez in March 1988 Whitaker put together a prodigious 26-fight run over the next nine years that often saw him not only avoid defeat overall but barely lose a round. Consider these score lines and the competition it was achieved against:

* Greg Haugen (wins IBF lightweight title): 120-107, 120-107, 118-109

* Jose Luis Ramirez (wins vacant WBC lightweight title, retains IBF title): 120-108, 120-109, 117-111

* Freddie Pendleton (retains WBC/IBF lightweight titles): 116-112, 116-112, 117-113

* Azumah Nelson (retains WBC, IBF lightweight titles): 116-114, 115-113, 116-111 (Whitaker loses a point in last round)

* Anthony Jones (retains WBC, WBA, IBF lightweight titles): 120-108, 119-109, 120-108

* Policarpo Diaz (retains WBC, WBA, IBF lightweight titles): 120-108, 120-107, 120-106

* Jorge Paez (retains WBC, WBA, IBF lightweight titles): 116-110, 115-111, 115-112

* Harold Brazier (non-title fight): 100-90, 100-90, 100-91

* Rafael Pineda (wins IBF junior welterweight title): 116-110, 117-108, 117-108

* James "Buddy" McGirt II (retains WBC welterweight title): 117-110, 117-113, 118-112

* Julio Cesar Vazquez (wins WBA junior middleweight title): 118-110, 116-110, 118-107

Seldom has a fighter demonstrated this degree of dominance over this highly qualified a field, and most experts say the first three blemishes against Ramirez (fight one), Julio Cesar Chavez and Oscar de la Hoya were undeserved. Entering their bouts with "Sweet Pete," the opponents listed above had a combined record of 529-48-10 (a .901 winning percentage), and 26 of the 48 losses belonged to Pendleton (who was far better at the time he challenged Whitaker than his 16 defeats suggested) and the polished Brazier. To achieve these scores Whitaker had to maintain an extraordinary level of consistency and concentration because he lacked the one-punch power to cancel previous mistakes. At his best, Whitaker***8217;s only enemies ***8211; at least in the ring ***8211; were boredom and complacency. In all, Whitaker was 19-3-1 in title fights and was considered the pound-for-pound best from 1993 (when he "drew" with Chavez) to 1997 when he lost to the "Golden Boy."

During the rare times he was challenged, he conjured the proper response. Rafael Williams (24-2 at the time) decked Whitaker in the fourth round of his ninth pro bout, but the Virginian picked himself up and won a unanimous 10 round decision. The same scenario played out against Roger Mayweather in the ninth round of fight 12 in a contest Whitaker was winning easily to that point. Three rounds later he had another decision win in hand. He was also pushed in his first fight against McGirt and both of his bouts with the rugged Wilfredo Rivera but in the end he still had the right stuff.



Whitaker***8217;s intangibles come to the fore only after his considerable skills began to erode. He received the ultimate gut check against unheralded Cuban (and future champion) Diobelys Hurtado when he found himself trailing on points going into the final two rounds. With the superfight against De La Hoya in mortal danger Whitaker summoned an unlikely bolt of lightning and bludgeoned the semi-conscious Hurtado into an 11th round TKO defeat. Finally, during a comprehensive defeat to Felix Trinidad in his next-to-last fight in February 1999 Whitaker fought through a jaw broken in round six to last the distance.



Granted, Whitaker was not the most lovable of characters but no amount of showboating and braggadocio could obscure his wealth of talent and accomplishment

I think he put it quite well.

http://www.maxboxing.com/news/main-lead/greatest-living-fighters-part-ii

Benncollinsaad
09-12-2009, 06:50 AM
Pea is a 4 division champ who beat a bunch of top comp over a long career. He never really lost til he was past it. And pretty much all his wins were schoolings where he str8 clowned his opponents. **** thread TS. :nonono:

Fak you.:D You can go on and on about all the names he beat, but they don't mean **** to me. Who were they? If he had beat Hearns or Benitez or Palomino or Cuevas, then it would mean something to me. Who are all these Ramirezes? Road sweepers, as Benn said?:lol1:

Maybe you all should get together and clean Whitaker's house and serve him 24 hours a day, coz I've never seen such idolatry before. You could score him dope as well, so he doesn't have to worry about it.:rofl:

TheGreatA
09-12-2009, 07:08 AM
Here's Jose Luis Ramirez:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WX74WdsJSqk&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WX74WdsJSqk&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/AkmfGbLPILg&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/AkmfGbLPILg&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Benncollinsaad
09-12-2009, 07:12 AM
Here's Jose Luis Ramirez:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WX74WdsJSqk&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WX74WdsJSqk&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/AkmfGbLPILg&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/AkmfGbLPILg&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

And Ramirez beat Whitaker.:D I wasn't referring to him specifically, but all these guys generally. Many of them have inflated records and are most likely somewhat overated. But whatever you say.

Silencers
09-12-2009, 07:16 AM
And Ramirez beat Whitaker.:D I wasn't referring to him specifically, but all these guys generally. Many of them have inflated records and are most likely somewhat overated. But whatever you say.

Please watch the fight before saying that.

Benncollinsaad
09-12-2009, 07:25 AM
Please watch the fight before saying that.

Ok...is it up on youtube?

Benncollinsaad
09-12-2009, 07:27 AM
I understand Ramirez was controversially stopped in the fight with Chavez? They are both from Culiacan and were good friends.

Silencers
09-12-2009, 07:36 AM
Ok...is it up on youtube?

I understand Ramirez was controversially stopped in the fight with Chavez? They are both from Culiacan and were good friends.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7_zauncYT0&feature=PlayList&p=0B8DBA1C0C121F32&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=26

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2edhFZMxaso&feature=PlayList&p=0B8DBA1C0C121F32&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=25

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xdy3L8mzKls&feature=PlayList&p=0B8DBA1C0C121F32&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=24

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bNswknO8xU&feature=related

Sorry for not embedding, can't do it right now.

The fight shouldn't have been stopped on that cut but it didn't influence the results in any way, I thought Chavez was winning the fight handily.

Benncollinsaad
09-12-2009, 07:49 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7_zauncYT0&feature=PlayList&p=0B8DBA1C0C121F32&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=26

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2edhFZMxaso&feature=PlayList&p=0B8DBA1C0C121F32&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=25

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xdy3L8mzKls&feature=PlayList&p=0B8DBA1C0C121F32&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=24

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bNswknO8xU&feature=related

Sorry for not embedding, can't do it right now.

The fight shouldn't have been stopped on that cut but it didn't influence the results in any way, I thought Chavez was winning the fight handily.
Thanks.:) Thanks for that info too.

MANGLER
09-12-2009, 08:00 AM
Fak you.:D You can go on and on about all the names he beat, but they don't mean **** to me. Who were they? If he had beat Hearns or Benitez or Palomino or Cuevas, then it would mean something to me. Who are all these Ramirezes? Road sweepers, as Benn said?:lol1:

Maybe you all should get together and clean Whitaker's house and serve him 24 hours a day, coz I've never seen such idolatry before. You could score him dope as well, so he doesn't have to worry about it.:rofl:

Was this thread random, or did sumthin in particular inspire you to make a thread questioning the legitimacy of Pea's gr8ness? You watch a Pea fight where he looked bad or sumthin? Are you just jokin and doin this to get a rise outta people?

Benncollinsaad
09-12-2009, 08:02 AM
Was this thread random, or did sumthin in particular inspire you to make a thread questioning the legitimacy of Pea's gr8ness? You watch a Pea fight where he looked bad or sumthin? Are you just jokin and doin this to get a rise outta people?

I just don't like him. The way he behaved in the Oscar fight indicates that he was/is a scumbag. Ok?

MANGLER
09-12-2009, 08:11 AM
I just don't like him. The way he behaved in the Oscar fight indicates that he was/is a scumbag. Ok?

Cool. All I needed to know. You're entitled to your opinion homey. I just think it's odd a boxing fan is doubtin the gr8ness of Whitaker. Peace.

Benncollinsaad
09-12-2009, 08:15 AM
Cool. All I needed to know. You're entitled to your opinion homey. I just think it's odd a boxing fan is doubtin the gr8ness of Whitaker. Peace.

Peace!:angel::friday:

GJC
09-12-2009, 09:43 AM
Its difficult but sometimes you have to take the personal out of these things there are a fair few fighters that I rate in the upper echelons of the ATG lists that I wouldn't neccessarily like to have a beer with.
Whitaker has got to be in the top 5 of anyones best defensive fighters all time.
Ditto top southpaws
Ditto Lightweights
Olympic Gold Medalist
Won titles in 4 weight divisions
Pretty good resume fought at the top for 10 years

He's got to be in the upper reaches of anyones ATG list, but I will agree with the TS I'm not a huge fan of him personally.

Benncollinsaad
09-12-2009, 09:57 AM
Its difficult but sometimes you have to take the personal out of these things there are a fair few fighters that I rate in the upper echelons of the ATG lists that I wouldn't neccessarily like to have a beer with.
Whitaker has got to be in the top 5 of anyones best defensive fighters all time.
Ditto top southpaws
Ditto Lightweights
Olympic Gold Medalist
Won titles in 4 weight divisions
Pretty good resume fought at the top for 10 years

He's got to be in the upper reaches of anyones ATG list, but I will agree with the TS I'm not a huge fan of him personally.

:beerchug: Thanx for having the guts to admit that!:)

Dynamite Kid
09-12-2009, 10:08 AM
Its difficult but sometimes you have to take the personal out of these things there are a fair few fighters that I rate in the upper echelons of the ATG liststhat I wouldn't neccessarily like to have a beer with.
Whitaker has got to be in the top 5 of anyones best defensive fighters all time.
Ditto top southpaws
Ditto Lightweights
Olympic Gold Medalist
Won titles in 4 weight divisions
Pretty good resume fought at the top for 10 years

He's got to be in the upper reaches of anyones ATG list, but I will agree with the TS I'm not a huge fan of him personally.

I can honestly say i dont think i would like to meet James Toney in person because he seems like a complete **** ead, even though he is a great fighter.

bojangles1987
09-12-2009, 10:21 AM
If you don't like Pernell Whitalker, that's one thing but you should still recognize his greatness. I understand not liking certain boxers.

I can't stand Sugar Ray Leonard, but I still recognize his place in boxing history. Pernell Whitaker is an ATG.

GJC
09-12-2009, 10:44 AM
:beerchug: Thanx for having the guts to admit that!:)
Don't know about having guts, if he was standing next to me i'd say he was the nicest person I've ever met :)

Benncollinsaad
09-12-2009, 11:11 AM
Don't know about having guts, if he was standing next to me i'd say he was the nicest person I've ever met :)

:rofl: Well, youre being honest at least!:D ;)

Ziggy Stardust
09-12-2009, 11:37 AM
If you don't like Pernell Whitalker, that's one thing but you should still recognize his greatness. I understand not liking certain boxers.

I can't stand Sugar Ray Leonard, but I still recognize his place in boxing history. Pernell Whitaker is an ATG.

Ditto on Ray Leonard. I don't like Muhammed Ali as person but I'd never deny he was the best Heavyweight I've ever seen.

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
09-12-2009, 11:43 AM
Please watch the fight before saying that.

I've had this issue with him before:


I still have to watch the entire fight. But what I saw of it, it was very close. And McCallum and Holmes can't be compared. McCallum's technique is far superior.

Huh?!? You haven't even watched it?!? WTF?!? :nonono:


At very least if you're going to comment on a fight WATCH it or do some research on it if video isn't available.

Poet

mathed
09-12-2009, 11:58 AM
Ok, I know he had a fantastic defense. But you gotta have more than just that and a few tricks to be worthy of the title ATG. I just don't see how he qualifies for that title. He lost to DLH and Trinidad, two best WWs of the 90's. And I know he lost clearly, everybody that says anything else is talking BS!

I think he is overated. He didn't beat that many great fighters. Who did he beat? Roger Mayweather, who imo was not a great fighter, just very good. And he floored Whitaker once in that fight and made it close. JC Chavez...I dunno, I haven't seen that fight really but I know its considered a controversial draw. Judging by the comments made on the DLH fight I am sceptical about the controversy.:rolleyes:

Yeah but he was slipping a bit by then and he had a drug problem to boot. I gots to represent him though because he grew up in Newport News, VA only 40 minutes from where I live in Richmond. He had a very good offense as well as perhaps one of the best evasive defenses of all time (at least top 5)

His fights were always entertaining, I'd put him top 25 all time and top 5 of the past 25 years.

Benncollinsaad
09-12-2009, 12:28 PM
Yeah but he was slipping a bit by then and he had a drug problem to boot. I gots to represent him though because he grew up in Newport News, VA only 40 minutes from where I live in Richmond. He had a very good offense as well as perhaps one of the best evasive defenses of all time (at least top 5)

His fights were always entertaining, I'd put him top 25 all time and top 5 of the past 25 years.

I wish all posts here could be as civil and polite as yours.;)

JAB5239
09-12-2009, 01:58 PM
Fak you.:D You can go on and on about all the names he beat, but they don't mean **** to me. Who were they? If he had beat Hearns or Benitez or Palomino or Cuevas, then it would mean something to me. Who are all these Ramirezes? Road sweepers, as Benn said?:lol1:

Maybe you all should get together and clean Whitaker's house and serve him 24 hours a day, coz I've never seen such idolatry before. You could score him dope as well, so he doesn't have to worry about it.:rofl:

So because you don't know or aren't familiar with the fighters Pea beat he's no good? :puke:

sweetpea87
09-12-2009, 02:39 PM
Wow,where do you get this?

Whitaker is a top 15-20 ATG IMO.

He was p4p no 1 for a long time,first undisputed champ at lightweight since Duran,won titles at 140,147 and 154.
He beat extremely good fighters in Chavez,Nelson and had plenty of other very good wins,Ramirez(where he was robbed in one fight),Haugen,McGirt(twice),Vasquez,Rivera(twice), Paez,ec.

You gotta take into account most his wins were dominant shoutout wins against top competition while he was going up in weight and had little KO power,that combined with his style of not running made him awesome.
Why even bring up de la Hoya and Trinidad?He was past his prime with Oscar and still arguably beat him and he was really done by Triinidad and still went the distance.


I was going to say pretty much the exact same thing. I think he did beat De La Hoya real close. I think the reason some people dont give him enough credit is because he didn't have a big punch, but he didn't need to be a knockout puncher to still dominate in his fights. Trinidad is the only fight I think he really lost, and he still went the distance with Trinidad when he was for sure past his prime.

mathed
09-12-2009, 02:42 PM
I wish all posts here could be as civil and polite as yours.;)

Thanks. Check out the ko in my signature, I made that GIF today after posting here in this thread.

Doctor_Tenma
09-12-2009, 02:43 PM
And Ramirez beat Whitaker.:D I wasn't referring to him specifically, but all these guys generally. Many of them have inflated records and are most likely somewhat overated. But whatever you say.

Dumb ass, watch it. You've become no different then those Pac nuthuggers who speak on past greats, having not watched them.

Benncollinsaad
09-12-2009, 03:30 PM
Dumb ass, watch it. You've become no different then those Pac nuthuggers who speak on past greats, having not watched them.

I don't like watching fighters I hate. But I've seen some of it and Ramirez def had an edge. It does not appear to have been a shutout for Whitaker at all. I suggest you take off the nuthugger glasses and try to look at it objectively.

Doctor_Tenma
09-12-2009, 03:33 PM
If you don't like Pernell Whitalker, that's one thing but you should still recognize his greatness. I understand not liking certain boxers.

I can't stand Sugar Ray Leonard, but I still recognize his place in boxing history. Pernell Whitaker is an ATG.

Your not alone, I have a serious dislike for SRL but not once have I made a thread questioning his greatness, want to know why? Because I've seen enough of him to know his greatness shouldn't be questioned, too bad T.S didn't do the same. He called overratd what he knew nothing of.

Benncollinsaad
09-12-2009, 03:35 PM
Your not a alone, I have a serious dislike for SRL but not once have I made a thread questioning his greatness, want to know why? Because I've seen enough of him to know his greatness shouldn't be questioned, too bad T.S didn't do the same. He called overratd what he knew nothing of.

Finally we find something common. I don't like SRL either. But I'll easier admit he was a great fighter.

Doctor_Tenma
09-12-2009, 03:37 PM
I don't like watching fighters I hate. But I've seen some of it and Ramirez def had an edge. It does not appear to have been a shutout for Whitaker at all. I suggest you take off the nuthugger glasses and try to look at it objectively.

Whitaker beat JLR as decisive as the 2nd fight. JLR couldn't land, that was a one-sided fight. One of, if not the biggest robbery in boxing. I'm no longer starting to think you're stupid, more like your trying to start ****.

Obama
09-12-2009, 03:56 PM
Your not a alone, I have a serious dislike for SRL but not once have I made a thread questioning his greatness, want to know why? Because I've seen enough of him to know his greatness shouldn't be questioned, too bad T.S didn't do the same. He called overratd what he knew nothing of.

Maybe you should, Con Man Leonard's greatness should always be questioned. ;)

People have the nerve to rate him as a top 10 ATG.... :nonono:

He was great yes....but he conned his way into the appearance of being greater than he actually was. Even he knows this.

Ziggy Stardust
09-12-2009, 04:05 PM
Maybe you should, Con Man Leonard's greatness should always be questioned. ;)

People have the nerve to rate him as a top 10 ATG.... :nonono:

He was great yes....but he conned his way into the appearance of being greater than he actually was. Even he knows this.

I can't stand Ray Leonard but I don't think there's any questioning of his greatness as a fighter......unless, of course someone is letting his personal antipahy get in the way of an objective evaluation.

Poet

BigMacFoster
09-12-2009, 04:09 PM
He beat Hagler and that's all that matter,Anything else he accomplished doesn't matter at all.

He did the world a favour on that night and for that one fight he is without question the greatest of all time.

I would have loved to have seen the look on the faces of the "Hooligans for Hagler" clique after Hagler lost

Dynamite Kid
09-12-2009, 04:26 PM
The man!!

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/P7h-aMRC9TE&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/P7h-aMRC9TE&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Hotsoup
09-12-2009, 04:50 PM
Gold Medalist Champion
First man to unify the lightweight championship since Duran
Was the first man to put a blemish on JCC's record.(hE WON THAT FIGHT!)
Beat,Mayweather,Haugen,Nelson,Mcgirt,Chavez and Ko'd Hurtado
He beat Julio Cesar Vasquez..a guy that floored Winky Wright 5 times.
Pernell was never knocked out.
He gave Dlh and Trinidad very tough fights when he was 10 years older then both those guys!.
You can't understand the greatness of Whitaker by looking at his career on box rec. He was a master of the sweet science.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yjTHLPmfBCQ&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yjTHLPmfBCQ&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

And he pulled some of the sickest moves in boxing history.

Benncollinsaad
09-12-2009, 04:53 PM
The man!!

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/P7h-aMRC9TE&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/P7h-aMRC9TE&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

The pretty boy you mean? Media darling. Retirement freak. Anybody who thinks SRL was always nice and gentlemanly in the ring, I suggest you go watch the Ayub Kalule fight.

BigMacFoster
09-12-2009, 05:11 PM
Show any respect towards your opponent in the ring and you deserve to get knocked out,Your opponent deserves nothing but contempt in the field of battle.

That's what pisses me of with these mmGAY fighters bowing to each other and touching gloves at every break like some kind of fake pseudo samurai.


God bless (the real) Sugar Ray Leonard,The man who retired Marvin Hagler.


I can't stand Ray Leonard

You hate Leonard and yet you idolise Joe Louis :thinking:

Benncollinsaad
09-12-2009, 05:13 PM
Show any respect towards your opponent in the ring and you deserve to get knocked out,Your opponent deserves nothing but contempt in the field of battle.

That's what pisses me of with these mmGAY fighters bowing to each other and touching gloves at every break like some kind of fake pseudo samurai.


God bless (the real) Sugar Ray Leonard,The man who retired Marvin Hagler.




You hate Leonard and yet you idolise Joe Louis

And then retired himself.:rolleyes: Leonard had no spine.

BigMacFoster
09-12-2009, 06:08 PM
One came back and the other didn't.Hagler knew that the time was right to retire when he started looking around at the real middlweight division that was emerging,A division that was actually stacked with talent and opposition,It shocked him that a division could be so good and so competitive,Which was very unusual to him as he had seen nothing of the kind when he fought in the middleweight division.

Benncollinsaad
09-12-2009, 06:48 PM
One came back and the other didn't.Hagler knew that the time was right to retire when he started looking around at the real middlweight division that was emerging,A division that was actually stacked with talent and opposition,It shocked him that a division could be so good and so competitive,Which was very unusual to him as he had seen nothing of the kind when he fought in the middleweight division.

I wouldn't go as far.:rolleyes:

Obama
09-12-2009, 08:52 PM
One came back and the other didn't.Hagler knew that the time was right to retire when he started looking around at the real middlweight division that was emerging,A division that was actually stacked with talent and opposition,It shocked him that a division could be so good and so competitive,Which was very unusual to him as he had seen nothing of the kind when he fought in the middleweight division.

I'd like to think he retired because he was bitter rather than afraid to have to face legit elite Middleweights for once. The division definitely did get a lot better after he retired tho.

Benncollinsaad
09-13-2009, 07:03 AM
I'd like to think he retired because he was bitter rather than afraid to have to face legit elite Middleweights for once. The division definitely did get a lot better after he retired tho.

I'd loved to see him against Sumbu Kalambay.:)

Benncollinsaad
09-19-2009, 05:32 PM
I've just seen the first Ramirez fight and its obvious to me that Ramirez won. It wasn't much of a fight, Whitaker kept running away and Ramirez kept chasing him. Neither landed many significant punches, but Ramirez was the agressor and did more work. Definitely. Not an impressive win for JLR but how could it be when Whitaker didn't wanna fight? Whitaker also missed with a flurry in the 11th. Ramirez landed a solid punch in the 8th or the 9th round.

So I really am afraid I don't see the controversy in this Whitaker loss either. And I don't really see how someone can say he is an ATG, since his fights were rarely watchable. He ran away all the time!

Obama
09-19-2009, 05:54 PM
I've just seen the first Ramirez fight and its obvious to me that Ramirez won. It wasn't much of a fight, Whitaker kept running away and Ramirez kept chasing him. Neither landed many significant punches, but Ramirez was the agressor and did more work. Definitely. Not an impressive win for JLR but how could it be when Whitaker didn't wanna fight? Whitaker also missed with a flurry in the 11th. Ramirez landed a solid punch in the 8th or the 9th round.

So I really am afraid I don't see the controversy in this Whitaker loss either. And I don't really see how someone can say he is an ATG, since his fights were rarely watchable. He ran away all the time!

By this logic Mosley deserved to beat DLH in the second fight because DLH ran away the whole night, and only did well in rounds where he avoided exchanges. Mosley also was the only one to score blows that actually hurt.

Stoppage
09-19-2009, 06:06 PM
Some people just hate certain fighters and it's obvious the thread starter hates Whitaker. He doesn't see how good a boxer Whitaker was and that's his problem. But the fact that he downsizes his accomplishments is pathetic.

Benncollinsaad
09-19-2009, 06:28 PM
Some people just hate certain fighters and it's obvious the thread starter hates Whitaker. He doesn't see how good a boxer Whitaker was and that's his problem. But the fact that he downsizes his accomplishments is pathetic.

No, YOU are pathetic. A guy who worships a boxer that just runs and ducks and throws pitty pat punches. Sorry, but I hate that kind of fighters.

Stoppage
09-19-2009, 06:33 PM
No, YOU are pathetic. A guy who worships a boxer that just runs and ducks and throws pitty pat punches. Sorry, but I hate that kind of fighters.

There's a difference between liking a boxer and downsizing a boxer. I wonder which one is more pathetic?

I know you hate Whitaker because he made some of your favorite fighters look bad but, for real, enough of the hate. I don't go around saying Terry Norris or Oscar de la Hoya are stupid and overrated.

BigMacFoster
09-19-2009, 06:47 PM
Calling Terry Norris overrated wouldn't do anything to Benncollinsaad,He's not really a fan of Terry Norris and his viewing of his fights is limited to Norris getting knocked out by Julian Jackson and Terry Norris knocking out John Mugabi.

both fights were short and required no great attention span like most boxing matches,Which is why Benncollinsaad will never be a boxing fan.

The guy's favourite fighter is whoever he decides to choose as his avatar for a couple of days before changing it again.

Don't give Benncollinsaad credit for hating any boxer as he would actually have happened to know atleast the most important aspects of that fighters career.

Benncollinsaad made a thread on Pernell Whitaker and gave such examples of fights to discredit him without ever even having watched them,Instead relying on what boxrec has to say on the matter.


I suggest he stick to glass jawed grapplers getting knocked out in twenty seconds like mmGAY presents.

Boxing_12
09-19-2009, 06:53 PM
Big Mac Foster you don't know nothing about boxing. Every one of your posts are just utter horse ****, you ****ing sad asswhipe.

Get a life.

Obama
09-19-2009, 06:55 PM
Foster is an *******, but he actually does know something about boxing.

RightCross94
09-19-2009, 06:57 PM
Whitaker was just awesome, and one of the fighters everyone seems to like, so smooth and sleek, great fighter.

BigMacFoster
09-19-2009, 07:13 PM
Big Mac Foster you don't know nothing about boxing. Every one of your posts are just utter horse ****, you ****ing sad asswhipe.

Get a life.


I think the real person here who needs to get a life is the sad little boy who uses multiple accounts to stalk one user over an internet forum.

TheGreatA broke your heart when he accused you of being an ALT didn't he St.Lion?

Such a well respected poster around these parts discrediting you as a loser and a weirdo must of really hit a nerve.So much so that you went about creating another account.

It turns out somebody set about creating a princemanspoper account over at eas*sid*boxing,And went about throwing around racial slurs and epithets all over the place.

Now you wouldn't know something about that would you St.Lion?

steeluv
09-19-2009, 07:14 PM
BennsCollinsadd

Well he beat Ramirez in the rematch anyway!

You might hate this kinda fighter, But it takes great skill, I suppose you hate the way Ali beat Foreman, the way Mayweather beat everyone he beat.

The fact of the matter there are few boxers in the history with the defensive skills of the likes of whittiker. If there was no Whittiker who beat Roger Mayweather's ass you think floyd would have become the same boxer he is today? his whole style is based on Whittiker.

Benncollinsaad
09-19-2009, 07:22 PM
Calling Terry Norris overrated wouldn't do anything to Benncollinsaad,He's not really a fan of Terry Norris and his viewing of his fights is limited to Norris getting knocked out by Julian Jackson and Terry Norris knocking out John Mugabi.

both fights were short and required no great attention span like most boxing matches,Which is why Benncollinsaad will never be a boxing fan.

The guy's favourite fighter is whoever he decides to choose as his avatar for a couple of days before changing it again.

Don't give Benncollinsaad credit for hating any boxer as he would actually have happened to know atleast the most important aspects of that fighters career.

Benncollinsaad made a thread on Pernell Whitaker and gave such examples of fights to discredit him without ever even having watched them,Instead relying on what boxrec has to say on the matter.


I suggest he stick to glass jawed grapplers getting knocked out in twenty seconds like mmGAY presents.

So I dont know anything about boxing because I change my avatars? Nice logic, birdbrain. Now listen you asswipe, as this gentleman called you, I know who you are. Youre the ALT here and don't even pretend. You can't fool me.
Princemanspopper used the same ****ty rhetoric about me and my avatars as you!

HA! What do you have to say now, you candyassed prick?

steeluv
09-19-2009, 07:36 PM
BENNCOLLINSADD I think you actually Should start WATCHING Boxing Matches

and STOP LISTENING to the FIGHTS on RADIO!

BigMacFoster
09-19-2009, 07:49 PM
So I dont know anything about boxing because I change my avatars? Nice logic, birdbrain. Now listen you asswipe, as this gentleman called you, I know who you are. Youre the ALT here and don't even pretend. You can't fool me.
Princemanspopper used the same ****ty rhetoric about me and my avatars as you!

HA! What do you have to say now, you candyassed prick?


Did you just accuse BigMacFoster of being an ALT of PrincemansPoper?

The same PrincemansPoper who was banned on September 2nd 2009?

On what date did BigMacFoster register? Do you think it was possibly September 2nd?

Just a few hours after PrincemansPoper himself was banned?

Do you think that BigMacFoster may...just may be PrincemansPoper? Did it really take you almost three weeks to come to such a conclusion?

Was it the fact that BigMacFoster has been sporting the very same avatar as PrincemansPoper the strongest hint of which you came to your conclusion?


You are right,There really is no way of fooling you.

I see you have changed your avatar for the sixty seventh time,May I suggest your sixty eight avatar?

http://www.hollow-hill.com/sabina/images/no-****-sherlock.jpg



BENNCOLLINSADD I think you actually Should start WATCHING Boxing Matches

and STOP LISTENING to the FIGHTS on RADIO!

Boxrec has it's own radio?

Ziggy Stardust
09-19-2009, 08:30 PM
Foster is an *******, but he actually does know something about boxing.

Translation: He happens to hold some of the same imbecilic opinions as yourself. I personally don't take anything EITHER of you post seriously as I have more respect for my brain cells than to give either of you idiots anything more than my middle finger.

Poet

▀ringer
09-19-2009, 08:34 PM
Anybody who cannot see the greatness that defined Pernell Whitaker's Amateur and Professional careers should probably stop watching boxing.

No disrespect ; but the man was a 3 division Champion who fought every legitimate opponet that came his way and made a habit outof going up in weight to challenge them on their turf, despite the fact that his punching power was severely deficient.

Aside from that ; he was the perfect combination of craft and guts that made for great fights and great television.

Over the years people (generally newbie fans) seem to have only focused on Whitaker's amazingly talented defensive skillset, while completely ignoring his equally talented offensive skillset as if he never fought an offensive fight.

He was an amazing body puncher. He worked combos like very few I've ever seen and he was equally adept at switch hitting on the fly from the head to the body in rhythmic motion. Aside from that ; he was also a bit of a scrapper and once again, contrary to popular belief ; he loved to mix it up in the pocket from time to time and really give the fans a show.

There's only so much I can say about Whitaker's greatness and nothing I can say will convince you otherwise if you hold such a strong belief that he was overrated.

All I can say is just watch the tapes. Watch at least half of his professional career before you even think about forming an opinion.

And don't go into it with any of the preconcieved notions that you currently have about the man.

Pernell was a beast, and is one of very few fighters whom I can openly state is an "all Time Great" with no reservations on my part whatsoever.

Ziggy Stardust
09-19-2009, 08:35 PM
Youre the ALT here and don't even pretend. You can't fool me.
Princemanspopper used the same ****ty rhetoric about me and my avatars as you!

Well duh.....everyone know he's PrinceMansPoopchute and also SlimeyGayLimey. It's not like he's clever enough to NOT to make it obvious.

Poet

Obama
09-20-2009, 04:41 AM
Translation: He happens to hold some of the same imbecilic opinions as yourself. I personally don't take anything EITHER of you post seriously as I have more respect for my brain cells than to give either of you idiots anything more than my middle finger.

Poet

You don't do yourself any favors with these childish posts. Grow up. You're a grown ass man for christ's sake.

Benncollinsaad
09-20-2009, 07:04 AM
Anybody who cannot see the greatness that defined Pernell Whitaker's Amateur and Professional careers should probably stop watching boxing.

No disrespect ; but the man was a 3 division Champion who fought every legitimate opponet that came his way and made a habit outof going up in weight to challenge them on their turf, despite the fact that his punching power was severely deficient.

Aside from that ; he was the perfect combination of craft and guts that made for great fights and great television.

Over the years people (generally newbie fans) seem to have only focused on Whitaker's amazingly talented defensive skillset, while completely ignoring his equally talented offensive skillset as if he never fought an offensive fight.

He was an amazing body puncher. He worked combos like very few I've ever seen and he was equally adept at switch hitting on the fly from the head to the body in rhythmic motion. Aside from that ; he was also a bit of a scrapper and once again, contrary to popular belief ; he loved to mix it up in the pocket from time to time and really give the fans a show.

There's only so much I can say about Whitaker's greatness and nothing I can say will convince you otherwise if you hold such a strong belief that he was overrated.

All I can say is just watch the tapes. Watch at least half of his professional career before you even think about forming an opinion.

And don't go into it with any of the preconcieved notions that you currently have about the man.

Pernell was a beast, and is one of very few fighters whom I can openly state is an "all Time Great" with no reservations on my part whatsoever.
GUTS?!? PERNELL WHITAKER?! :hitit: Please...you should take off that Marquez avatar and stop calling yourself his fan if you can be so stupid! You are not worthy of having his glorious persona gracing your avatar!:nonono:

The Noose
09-20-2009, 08:22 AM
Whitaker was great in his style, performance, achievments, and courage to mix it up on the inside with punchers. i.e. he had guts, skill and personality.

A multi-weight champion who took on the best even when he didnt have it anymore.

The Noose
09-20-2009, 08:23 AM
Anybody who cannot see the greatness that defined Pernell Whitaker's Amateur and Professional careers should probably stop watching boxing.

No disrespect ; but the man was a 3 division Champion who fought every legitimate opponet that came his way and made a habit outof going up in weight to challenge them on their turf, despite the fact that his punching power was severely deficient.

Aside from that ; he was the perfect combination of craft and guts that made for great fights and great television.

Over the years people (generally newbie fans) seem to have only focused on Whitaker's amazingly talented defensive skillset, while completely ignoring his equally talented offensive skillset as if he never fought an offensive fight.

He was an amazing body puncher. He worked combos like very few I've ever seen and he was equally adept at switch hitting on the fly from the head to the body in rhythmic motion. Aside from that ; he was also a bit of a scrapper and once again, contrary to popular belief ; he loved to mix it up in the pocket from time to time and really give the fans a show.

There's only so much I can say about Whitaker's greatness and nothing I can say will convince you otherwise if you hold such a strong belief that he was overrated.

All I can say is just watch the tapes. Watch at least half of his professional career before you even think about forming an opinion.

And don't go into it with any of the preconcieved notions that you currently have about the man.

Pernell was a beast, and is one of very few fighters whom I can openly state is an "all Time Great" with no reservations on my part whatsoever.

Good post.

Benncollinsaad
09-20-2009, 08:38 AM
So I should stop boxing because I don't appreciate a guy who hasn't been fighting for ten years?? Nice logic. Maybe then everybody who didn't like Bernie Briscoe should stop watching boxing as well?:rofl:

Ziggy Stardust
09-20-2009, 01:41 PM
You don't do yourself any favors with these childish posts. Grow up. You're a grown ass man for christ's sake.

You do yourself no favors when you endorse the views of a 24 karot crackpot like BigMacPrinceLimey. When you say of SlimeyPooperFoster "he actually does know something about boxing" you destroy what little credibility you have as a poster. I'd be hard pressed to think of a more retarded statement than that. Get real. You're not a Special Ed student (as far as I know) for Christ's sake.

Poet

Obama
09-20-2009, 01:54 PM
You do yourself no favors when you endorse the views of a 24 karot crackpot like BigMacPrinceLimey. When you say of SlimeyPooperFoster "he actually does know something about boxing" you destroy what little credibility you have as a poster. I'd be hard pressed to think of a more retarded statement than that. Get real. You're not a Special Ed student (as far as I know) for Christ's sake.

Poet

I said he had some boxing knowledge. I mean, seriously, if you can't see that, it's your own pride getting in the way. It's not exactly hard to have some boxing knowledge. Anyone obsessed with the history section of a boxing forum has some boxing knowledge. He particularly specializes on points that discredit fighters. Lot's of people rip on others without any foundation rooted in reality. Not the case with Foster. Most of his points can't be entirely refuted. The issue is mainly how he represents the points. He gets carried away with his own dialogue and uses a little too much literary jargon and hyperbole.

I also don't think he's Slimey Limey.

▀ringer
09-20-2009, 10:12 PM
GUTS?!? PERNELL WHITAKER?! :hitit: Please...you should take off that Marquez avatar and stop calling yourself his fan if you can be so stupid! You are not worthy of having his glorious persona gracing your avatar!:nonono:

So Whitaker didn't have guts?

What about how he was getting his ass beat against Hurtado and forced himself to dig deep for that gut check and pulled a TKO stoppage out of his ass when it seemed all but imposible?

What about how he had to dig deep and take it to the trenches with Roger Mayweather?

What about all the times he threw caution to the wind and mixed it up in the pocket with fighters who had more pop than he did?

Whitaker had just as much guts as he did talent.

If you can't see that then why make a thread asking others for their opinions on what makes him so great? Why go through the trouble of making a thread like this?

Dan...
09-21-2009, 12:05 AM
This is an uttlerly retarded threat and demonstrates that the TS knows fuk all about the sport.

Dynamite Kid
09-21-2009, 07:45 AM
Anybody who cannot see the greatness that defined Pernell Whitaker's Amateur and Professional careers should probably stop watching boxing.

No disrespect ; but the man was a 3 division Champion who fought every legitimate opponet that came his way and made a habit outof going up in weight to challenge them on their turf, despite the fact that his punching power was severely deficient.

Aside from that ; he was the perfect combination of craft and guts that made for great fights and great television.

Over the years people (generally newbie fans) seem to have only focused on Whitaker's amazingly talented defensive skillset, while completely ignoring his equally talented offensive skillset as if he never fought an offensive fight.

He was an amazing body puncher. He worked combos like very few I've ever seen and he was equally adept at switch hitting on the fly from the head to the body in rhythmic motion. Aside from that ; he was also a bit of a scrapper and once again, contrary to popular belief ; he loved to mix it up in the pocket from time to time and really give the fans a show.

There's only so much I can say about Whitaker's greatness and nothing I can say will convince you otherwise if you hold such a strong belief that he was overrated.

All I can say is just watch the tapes. Watch at least half of his professional career before you even think about forming an opinion.

And don't go into it with any of the preconcieved notions that you currently have about the man.

Pernell was a beast, and is one of very few fighters whom I can openly state is an "all Time Great" with no reservations on my part whatsoever.


This is a great! post because it explains exactly what type of fighter Whitaker was in style, he was a cutey but he like Bringer pointed out also like to mix it with his opponents inside, which he does not get any credit for from people who have only seen his biggest fights where he tended to fight more from long range and was not as impressive, however if you watch majority of his fights you will start to realize he was not Hector Camacho MK 2, he was a quite a superb Boxer who could fight in the pocket/ mid range, mix it up inside or fight from long range, he put on some clinics, no not clinics they were like works of art.

I dont blame anyone for thinking Whitaker was a runner because i always thought he was a runner/coward little ***** that did too much back peddling but that was untill i took the time to watch more of his fights and i could not have been more wrong, he was waay more aggressive and had more heart than i ever gave him credit for. I will however admit that Whitaker was not exactly exciting when he beat Chavez, DLH and Nelson you could argue but apart from that his fights were generally very good to watch.

▀ringer
09-21-2009, 07:55 AM
This is a great! post because it explains exactly what type of fighter Whitaker was in style, he was a cutey but he like Bringer pointed out also like to mix it with his opponents inside, which he does not get any credit for from people who have only seen his biggest fights where he tended to fight more from long range and was not as impressive, however if you watch majority of his fights you will start to realize he was not Hector Camacho MK 2, he was a quite a superb Boxer who could fight in the pocket/ mid range, mix it up inside or fight from long range, he put on some clinics, no not clinics they were like works of art.

I dont blame anyone for thinking Whitaker was a runner because i always thought he was a runner/coward little ***** that did too much back peddling but that was untill i took the time to watch more of his fights and i could not have been more wrong, he was waay more aggressive and had more heart than i ever gave him credit for. I will however admit that Whitaker was not exactly exciting when he beat Chavez, DLH and Nelson you could argue but apart from that his fights were generally very good to watch.

I think the main problem here is that Whitaker fought very cautiously against Chavez, Oscar, and Azumah in his 3 biggest fights.

And many so called "fight fans" tend to only watch a few fights of any one guy's career if they weren't around for it, and then form their opinion from that.

Clearly that's the case in this thread as evidenced by the TS's opening post and subsequent replies ; he's forming his opinion of Whitaker based solely off of a few cautious performances, and not the entire body of work.

Dynamite Kid
09-21-2009, 08:36 AM
I think the main problem here is that Whitaker fought very cautiously against Chavez, Oscar, and Azumah in his 3 biggest fights.

And many so called "fight fans" tend to only watch a few fights of any one guy's career if they weren't around for it, and then form their opinion from that.

Clearly that's the case in this thread as evidenced by the TS's opening post and subsequent replies ; he's forming his opinion of Whitaker based solely off of a few cautious performances, and not the entire body of work.

Yep thats the problem here.

If you wanna know about a fighter you have not seen much of you tend yo look for his biggest fights but his biggest fights are not always reflective of the type of fighter they are. Take Marvin Hagler, some will watch his fights with Mugabi and Leonard and get the impression he was an aggressive beast that wanted to cut the ring down and put a beating on you but he was actually a counter puncher. IMO Fighters adapt different game plans when they are facing the better competition because they have to in order to win because! of the quality of opposition.

Its like Terry Norris, he was no what i would call a big puncher but if you watch his fights with Gatti, Mugabi, Blocker you might get that impression but when all said and done he was basically a stiff puncher whom wore you down with the accumulation, well he was imo anyway.

Ziggy Stardust
09-21-2009, 10:33 AM
Yep thats the problem here.

If you wanna know about a fighter you have not seen much of you tend yo look for his biggest fights but his biggest fights are not always reflective of the type of fighter they are. Take Marvin Hagler, some will watch his fights with Mugabi and Leonard and get the impression he was an aggressive beast that wanted to cut the ring down and put a beating on you but he was actually a counter puncher. IMO Fighters adapt different game plans when they are facing the better competition because they have to in order to win because! of the quality of opposition.

Its like Terry Norris, he was no what i would call a big puncher but if you watch his fights with Gatti, Mugabi, Blocker you might get that impression but when all said and done he was basically a stiff puncher whom wore you down with the accumulation, well he was imo anyway.

It's kind of like the people who say Ray Robinson had no defense when the only footage they've seen of him is the last round of the second Turpin fight where Ray was going all out to get the KO before the referee could stop the fight because of his cut.

Poet

Ziggy Stardust
09-21-2009, 10:51 AM
I said he had some boxing knowledge. I mean, seriously, if you can't see that, it's your own pride getting in the way. It's not exactly hard to have some boxing knowledge.

Isn't that a bit like saying the National Inquirer has some knowledge of current events?

Anyone obsessed with the history section of a boxing forum has some boxing knowledge. He particularly specializes on points that discredit fighters.

He's in the Boxing History section because he's a troll. He likes pissing people off and starting fights. He pays attention to which fighters get respect around here then makes posts smearing those fighters.

Lot's of people rip on others without any foundation rooted in reality. Not the case with Foster.

Translation: He knows how to use his Google search function to try and dig up dirt on the affor mentioned fighters.

Most of his points can't be entirely refuted.

Try common sense: It's a wonderful antidote to his stupidy. This isn't a high school debate club or a law court or a political campaigne. Trying to score cheap debate points like a dumb school kid or a douchbag lawyer or politician doesn't get someone any credit with reasonably intelligent posters.

The issue is mainly how he represents the points. He gets carried away with his own dialogue and uses a little too much literary jargon and hyperbole.

Read: He's a troll.

I also don't think he's Slimey Limey.

Then you're about the only one who doesn't. It's pretty damn obvious. What do you need? A signed confession?

Poet