How would Patterson done at his best without any injures vs Clay?

he would of gotten kayoed even faster.:boxing:

Could be Frazier vs Ali-esque. But Patterson still gets stopped. Not so much because of his glass jaw either. More so because his punches couldn't do the damage on Ali that Frazier's could, thus Ali doesn't fade down the stretch.

Patterson might have gone the distance.

I don't think the 1965 Ali that fought Patterson was as good as the 1967 Ali.

Ali by UD-Something like 10-5

Patterson put up a valiant effort at 37 years of age against Ali, only to lose the fight on cuts. A bit of a freak incident in my opinion because Patterson wasn't cut often.

He looked slow and immobile in their first fight. I can imagine that Patterson could have done better at that point of his career if not for the injury but he would not have beaten Ali.

The Patterson of 1956 (vs Moore) or 1960 (vs Johansson II) has the best chance, since those were the only two times during his heavyweight career that he showed the killer instinct he was sometimes criticized for not having.

Patterson put up a valiant effort at 37 years of age against Ali, only to lose the fight on cuts. A bit of a freak incident in my opinion because Patterson wasn't cut often.

He looked slow and immobile in their first fight. I can imagine that Patterson could have done better at that point of his career if not for the injury but he would not have beaten Ali.

The Patterson of 1956 (vs Moore) or 1960 (vs Johansson II) has the best chance, since those were the only two times during his heavyweight career that he showed the killer instinct he was sometimes criticized for not having.

Talking about the 2nd Ali vs Patterson fight......

On another boxing website a question was asked which fight Ali took the most lightly and trained the least......Was the 2nd Patterson fight.

Jimmy Young was 2nd
1st Norton fight was 3rd

Talking about the 2nd Ali vs Patterson fight......

On another boxing website a question was asked which fight Ali took the most lightly and trained the least......Was the 2nd Patterson fight.

Jimmy Young was 2nd
1st Norton fight was 3rd

Ali came in at a pretty reasonable weight for him though at 218 pounds, not like the 230 lb sloppy Ali that turned up in the Jimmy Young fight.

He had also fought numerous times in the past couple of months so no real training was needed to keep in shape.

I do think that he didn't take the early rounds too seriously until Patterson started laying some serious leather onto him, prompting Ali to step up the pace.

Ali came in at a pretty reasonable weight for him though at 218 pounds, not like the 230 lb sloppy Ali that turned up in the Jimmy Young fight.

He had also fought numerous times in the past couple of months so no real training was needed to keep in shape.

I do think that he didn't take the early rounds too seriously until Patterson started laying some serious leather onto him, prompting Ali to step up the pace.

Ali gave props to Patterson as well.He said he thought Patterson would be nothing and fold easily within' 5 rounds.He then said he seriously underestimated Floyd and gave him props for fighting so valiantly.Patterson said he put everything into this fight and trained as hard as he ever has.

Anyway,back to the topic.A prime Patterson with no injuries vs a Prime Ali would go the distance IMO.I believe Ali would win a UD-Something like 10-5

I actually thought Patterson took a few rounds against Ali (second fight) and that he was in the fight before Ali stepped it up and took him out, but then again he only had that much success imo because Ali let him. Ali knew his size would be the difference in the end and once he stepped up the attack the outcome was inevitable.

Patterson was so quick.

I had Patterson ahead by a round in their second fight.On what basis do you give Ali rounds? Patterson wasn't really landing many significent punches but you had to give him the nod based upon workrate.Ali spent more effort in his pre fight antics with Frazier than he did against Patterson in the first four rounds against patterson

Peak Patterson 1956 vs 1967 Ali is a closer fight for me than many would imagine, Floyd Patterson at his best was lightning fast, his left was clocked slightly faster than Ali's.

I dont think that Floyd's glass chin was really too much at threat from Ali's power although I think he may touch down at some point. I see a faily close decision for Ali, a 9-6 or 10-5. I rate a peak Patterson fairly highly.

Peak Patterson 1956 vs 1967 Ali is a closer fight for me than many would imagine, Floyd Patterson at his best was lightning fast, his left was clocked slightly faster than Ali's.

I dont think that Floyd's glass chin was really too much at threat from Ali's power although I think he may touch down at some point. I see a faily close decision for Ali, a 9-6 or 10-5. I rate a peak Patterson fairly highly.

His chin seemed to take Ali's punches pretty well in both of their fights.

Then again I don't think he really had a "glass jaw". It was definitely his greatest vulnerability though.

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The back really hampered him in 1965, he was wrongly reduced to a one punch at a time plodder against Ali...........but he showed so much courage!

Patterson's biggest weakness was his lack of size... I think he would have beaten Michael Spinks, Ezzard Charles, Gene Tunney, Bob Foster & possibly Archie Moore at light heavy, but he wasn't quite there as a heavy..
He'd never have beaten Clay/Ali period, but as SugarJ points out, prime 4 prime, it would have been a lot closer than the 2 fights that did take place..

I agree Mickey, he may well have beaten those guys at light heavy or at least won fights in a series with each. Its a shame the cruiserweight division didn't exist, he'd have surely ruled there. That said there are quite a few former heavyweight champions who really were today's cruiserweight.

I liked the way Cus D'Amato seemed to get such electrifying hand speed and combinations out of Patterson and Tyson. It would be great to see more footage of both of them training under Cus. Its a shame he didn't have many other top drawer heavyweights under his charge, he was obviously a terrific trainer and mentor.

I agree Mickey, he may well have beaten those guys at light heavy or at least won fights in a series with each. Its a shame the cruiserweight division didn't exist, he'd have surely ruled there. That said there are quite a few former heavyweight champions who really were today's cruiserweight.

I liked the way Cus D'Amato seemed to get such electrifying hand speed and combinations out of Patterson and Tyson. It would be great to see more footage of both of them training under Cus. Its a shame he didn't have many other top drawer heavyweights under his charge, he was obviously a terrific trainer and mentor.
With regard to the cruisers, names that come to mind are Dempsey & Marciano.. They generally get rated above Patterson, because they could absorb more punishment, but on boxing terms, they were miles behind.. Floyd had the fastest hands of all the heavies 4 sure..

I agree Mickey, he may well have beaten those guys at light heavy or at least won fights in a series with each. Its a shame the cruiserweight division didn't exist, he'd have surely ruled there. That said there are quite a few former heavyweight champions who really were today's cruiserweight.

I liked the way Cus D'Amato seemed to get such electrifying hand speed and combinations out of Patterson and Tyson. It would be great to see more footage of both of them training under Cus. Its a shame he didn't have many other top drawer heavyweights under his charge, he was obviously a terrific trainer and mentor.

Jose Torres was another great D'Amato trained/peek-a-boo style fighter.

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I think Ali still would've won but Patterson would've been more competitive and wouldn't have gotten toyed around with. He was very fast with his leaping left hook in his prime, a punch Ali was always open to, I don't think 1 punch from Patterson would've been enough to knock Ali out though. Ali by late knockout or clear decision.

Hi Mickey, Hi GreatA,

Yes Floyd's boxing ability was excellent, he could be a bit of a slow starter but his hands were lightning fast. I think I read that in a head to head comparision with Ali that Floyd's left was clocked faster but Ali's right shaded Floyd's, footspeed was also with Ali. That said, on the combination front there couldn't be much in it, when Floyd let his hands go it could be quite a blur.

Controversial I know but I might rate Floyd's left hook as better than Frazier's, only slightly less powerful but much faster, plus he could throw it much further back from a leap.

Good call GreatA on the late Mr Torres, he was a good light heavy. I'd have liked to see Cus with a few more heavyweights under his charge.

Ali still wins it but it would be a damn interesting fight as Patterson was the one Heavyweight who could nearly match a prime Ali for speed. Ali's reach advantage would be too tough for Patterson to overcome with enough consistancy to win though.

Poet