View Full Version : Chavez - Taylor stoppage


wmute
02-26-2005, 04:16 PM
right stoppage, error, usual don king con?

Sir_Jose
02-26-2005, 04:43 PM
Steel asked him twice if he was good and Taylor never answered.

Mike Tyson Jr.
02-26-2005, 05:30 PM
that fight only had
2 seconds left and it
got stoped

Konstantin
02-27-2005, 05:33 PM
I believe that Taylor may have been able to continue but his attention was not focused where it should have been- the ref- when he was asking him if he was ok and it cost him the fight. So I think it was a correct stoppage from the refs standpoint but Taylor could have gone on to win, if he didnt get floored again.

.::|ULTIMATE|::.
02-27-2005, 11:14 PM
Steel asked him twice if he was good and Taylor never answered.

And he counted to 9 instead of 8 and Taylor was leaning and holding the ropes instead of even looking ready.

{BrownBomber}
02-28-2005, 06:48 PM
He got his chance again and we all know what happened.

Rockin'
03-07-2005, 09:16 AM
no question that taylor had taken a good beating to that point, although he was putting one on Julio' as well. The thing is that in Taylors condition as he was another couple of seconds with a fighter like chavez could be the end of Taylor as a boxer as well as a person. the referees job and main concern is to make sure that fighters do not take too much punishment, steele made the right call.........Rockin'

+= El Jefe=+
03-07-2005, 10:01 AM
he could have continued ,
but he never answered the ref back
so it wasnt that bad of a stoppage
his corner and him had a lot to do
with it

oldgringo
03-07-2005, 12:29 PM
Bull****... :dance:

m00ks
03-07-2005, 02:03 PM
No bad stoppage the guy didn't know where the **** he was. Coulnd't respond to Steele. Like he said, he doesn't care about how much time is left, 5 seconds would have been enough to get knock the **** out with one more punch and that would have been worse. Sad story of Taylor though. fought his heart out, lost, never recovered.

cornerman
03-07-2005, 04:39 PM
I do think that Taylor was able to continue, however he didnt answer Richard Steele when asked if he was okay, so he was right to stop the fight. It just seems suspicious by the fact that there was only 2 seconds left in the fight, if Taylor had carried on he would definatley have won and also that Chavez was a Don King fighter on a Don King PPV.
IMHO Steele was in a no win situation, but he made the right choice.

Rspen46
07-06-2013, 02:52 AM
I have to believe the Ref, when he said it made no difference how much or how little time was ever left on the clock, he said he knew the round was close to ending, but exactly how close, he was not sure, so when he looked at Taylor, asked him questions & Taylor looked away to look at dumbass Duva jumping up on the ring without answering, & seeing his pummeled face & watching Chavez, chop him down the whole fight, yes he stopped it & I agree, of course as a Ref in that situation, you have some idea of the round coming to a close, but exactly how much, no, the ref like anyone else was caught up in the fight, & saw Taylor was beaten & he stopped it, it's just too bad, there was not more time on the clock, so we would not be talking about this.

Chavez, broke him down every single round of the fight, & by the end, he had taken years off Taylor & made a young super talented boxer, & aging older boxer, you won't see it often in 1 fight, but it happened in this one.

mickey malone
07-06-2013, 08:50 AM
Taylor was ahead, no question, but Steel just doing his job when Meldrick ran out of gas.

SBleeder
07-06-2013, 09:23 AM
Good stoppage. Taylor was cooked.

Tough break about the timing, but the fight was scheduled for 12 rounds, not 11.95 rounds.

T.Horton
07-06-2013, 10:37 AM
Richard Steele was a corrupt, Don King ref. He knew exactly how much time was left (even though he denied it after the fight) because as a ref that's part of your job.

Bull**** stoppage. Taylor should have at least been able to say he won that fight seeing as he's completely ruined as a human being now.

mickey malone
07-06-2013, 04:02 PM
Richard Steele was a corrupt, Don King ref. He knew exactly how much time was left (even though he denied it after the fight) because as a ref that's part of your job.

Bull**** stoppage. Taylor should have at least been able to say he won that fight seeing as he's completely ruined as a human being now.
Your hate for King overshadows the facts.. I know, because i've said the same thing myself, but the more i watch the fight, the more i think Taylor was spent.. Chavez, like it or not is an atg, and most of the time, you just need just a little bit more than a big heart & incredible handspeed, in order to beat a fighter like that.. The last few seconds of that bout, were reminiscent of a public stoning, Taylor's head was on a loose neck and being pivoted about like a ping pong ball.. The words, subdural haematona come to mind. Suffered by many a fighter, with far more oxygen flow than Taylor had in his tank.. Good stoppage, end of story

young_robbed
07-06-2013, 04:13 PM
I can't see how this is such a great stoppage. If he had let him go on Taylor would have survived to the final bell no question.

Anthony342
07-06-2013, 04:21 PM
Like Scott, I think how much time left SHOULD be a factor in stoppages, especially if the hurt fighter has a chance of winning. Taylor should have been allowed to continue, but only because it was the end of the round. Anymore time left and it's a good stoppage. Steele really didn't have much of a choice though, because Taylor didn't respond. Taylor's attention was distracted, so he probably didn't hear Steele as he wasn't listening to him. The corner shouldn't have distracted him or Steele should've made sure he had Taylor's attention before making his decision. This and the stoppage in the first Tyson-Ruddock fight have pretty much dogged Steele his whole career. At least with the Tyson fight, you could see Ruddock was about to be finished in a few punches and Tyson also won a rematch a few months later.

joseph5620
07-06-2013, 04:39 PM
Your hate for King overshadows the facts.. I know, because i've said the same thing myself, but the more i watch the fight, the more i think Taylor was spent.. Chavez, like it or not is an atg, and most of the time, you just need just a little bit more than a big heart & incredible handspeed, in order to beat a fighter like that.. The last few seconds of that bout, were reminiscent of a public stoning, Taylor's head was on a loose neck and being pivoted about like a ping pong ball.. The words, subdural haematona come to mind. Suffered by many a fighter, with far more oxygen flow than Taylor had in his tank.. Good stoppage, end of story




"Public stoning" is more than a little hyperbolic. Taylor wasn't taking a one way beating in that round. If Steele was "just doing his job" Chavez would have been standing in a neutral corner opposed to the center of the ring. You can't have it both ways by claiming Steele was just doing his job while ignoring what he wasn't doing correctly.

Scott9945
07-06-2013, 05:39 PM
I can't see how this is such a great stoppage. If he had let him go on Taylor would have survived to the final bell no question.

Of course. I can see if Taylor was getting battered with seconds left, but he was standing up straight and in no danger of being hit again.

-Huey-
07-06-2013, 06:11 PM
Your hate for King overshadows the facts.. I know, because i've said the same thing myself, but the more i watch the fight, the more i think Taylor was spent.. Chavez, like it or not is an atg, and most of the time, you just need just a little bit more than a big heart & incredible handspeed, in order to beat a fighter like that.. The last few seconds of that bout, were reminiscent of a public stoning, Taylor's head was on a loose neck and being pivoted about like a ping pong ball.. The words, subdural haematona come to mind. Suffered by many a fighter, with far more oxygen flow than Taylor had in his tank.. Good stoppage, end of story

**** Don King.:cool2:

Scott9945
07-06-2013, 06:25 PM
Did you see the fight in black and white or colour? I'm certain that would have influenced your perspective.

I saw the fight live and in color. Do you have any other stupid f*cking questions?

T.Horton
07-06-2013, 06:28 PM
Your hate for King overshadows the facts.. I know, because i've said the same thing myself, but the more i watch the fight, the more i think Taylor was spent.. Chavez, like it or not is an atg, and most of the time, you just need just a little bit more than a big heart & incredible handspeed, in order to beat a fighter like that.. The last few seconds of that bout, were reminiscent of a public stoning, Taylor's head was on a loose neck and being pivoted about like a ping pong ball.. The words, subdural haematona come to mind. Suffered by many a fighter, with far more oxygen flow than Taylor had in his tank.. Good stoppage, end of storyYou know what, you may be right.

I will check it out again.

JAB5239
07-06-2013, 07:58 PM
I saw the fight live and in color. Do you have any other stupid f*cking questions?

No, he doesn't. He's finished.

Humean
07-06-2013, 08:06 PM
Time irrelevant to decision of referee and he didn't answer back to Steele. It was clearly the correct decision. Steele was a fine referee and it amazes me that everyone who says it was the wrong decision can say that when Steele was the only man who was looking into Taylor's eyes and had the wealth of experience to know when to stop a fight. I suppose everyone else had a better position from their armchairs...

Scott9945
07-06-2013, 08:48 PM
Time irrelevant to decision of referee and he didn't answer back to Steele. It was clearly the correct decision. Steele was a fine referee and it amazes me that everyone who says it was the wrong decision can say that when Steele was the only man who was looking into Taylor's eyes and had the wealth of experience to know when to stop a fight. I suppose everyone else had a better position from their armchairs...

Of course time is relevant when the fighter is taking an 8 count and there is no time remaining in the fight. No matter what you are speculating what the ref saw, Taylor was in no danger of being hit anymore. Steele was a terrible referee, and this was a terrible stoppage.

Humean
07-06-2013, 09:14 PM
Time is irrelevant because it is not the referees job to make this kind of decision based upon how much time is left in the round/fight, not to mention that he may not have known exactly how much time was left on the clock anyway. You are criticizing the referee for something that was not within the referees remit. His job was to decide whether Taylor was fit to continue and he was clearly right on that because Taylor not only didn't answer him but looked away. It even took Taylor a bit before he realised that the fight had been called off, an indication of his inability to continue.

Scott9945
07-06-2013, 09:56 PM
Time is irrelevant because it is not the referees job to make this kind of decision based upon how much time is left in the round/fight, not to mention that he may not have known exactly how much time was left on the clock anyway. You are criticizing the referee for something that was not within the referees remit. His job was to decide whether Taylor was fit to continue and he was clearly right on that because Taylor not only didn't answer him but looked away. It even took Taylor a bit before he realised that the fight had been called off, an indication of his inability to continue.

I've seen plenty of fighters allowed to continue mid fight in much poorer shape. Like when Steele allowed Tommy Hearns to continue against Barkley. Steele was an ex-fighter and an experienced ref. He knew the 10 second lights were on. Referees are supposed to consider every aspect of a fight. The real reason he stopped it was to protect the house fighter. Just like he gave Tyson a quick win over Ruddock and allowed Hearns (the obvious house fighter) a chance to continue. And if Steele were really going by the book, he would have interrupted the count until Chavez was in a neutral corner, which he was clearly wasn't.

Scott9945
07-06-2013, 09:58 PM
No, he doesn't. He's finished.

I sure hope that you didn't say anything cheeky again. :D

Humean
07-06-2013, 10:12 PM
I've seen plenty of fighters allowed to continue mid fight in much poorer shape. Like when Steele allowed Tommy Hearns to continue against Barkley. Steele was an ex-fighter and an experienced ref. He knew the 10 second lights were on. Referees are supposed to consider every aspect of a fight. The real reason he stopped it was to protect the house fighter. Just like he gave Tyson a quick win over Ruddock and allowed Hearns (the obvious house fighter) a chance to continue. And if Steele were really going by the book, he would have interrupted the count until Chavez was in a neutral corner, which he was clearly wasn't.

Now Steele is criticized for not having eyes in the back of his head? If your argument is based around conspiracy theories then I think i'll leave you to your beliefs. Nothing will convince you otherwise.

Scott9945
07-06-2013, 10:31 PM
Now Steele is criticized for not having eyes in the back of his head? If your argument is based around conspiracy theories then I think i'll leave you to your beliefs. Nothing will convince you otherwise.

If the referee isn't responsible for keeping a fighter in a neutral corner, then who is? That is a boxing rule, not a conspiracy. Refer to Tunney-Dempsey II as Exhibit A.

Rosenlicht
07-06-2013, 11:01 PM
Richard Steele was in the moment. He wasn't worried about the round ending. He acted in the moment and that was the outcome. It was the right stoppage.

It'd be worse to say I'd normally stop this fight in this circumstance but since there are only a few seconds left I'll let it continue and let it go to decision. And it's not like Steele knew the scorecards.

CHEECH
07-06-2013, 11:14 PM
them key words right thur, in the moment. we speculatin n tryna explain, rathionalize, etc. here's an alternative u don't want, steel ax him twice n takes about 3 seconds off the clock before he waves it off. if he did taylor like nady did vargas v tito, like just wipes off meldrick gloves and waves Julio in, Julio can land another 5 shots with his full weight in them n if taylor lives then he probly ends up talkin like he does way bfor he gets a shot at aaron davis belt. or taylor slips into a coma and everyone pissed at steele for not thinkin of the fighters safety. the ref is closest in there,when he makes a questionable ruling, we trust he had ample reason to. of course when steele lets ray leonard excessively clinch and bolo right into haglers cup right in front of his face and take no points away, we have to admit he aint that good a ref. matter of fact, I don't even think steel even said nothing to ray when he bolo'd haglers cup n it was right in front of steels country talkin face. shake han an g'luck. fk Richard steele. but I don't have a problem with the taylor stoppage

mickey malone
07-07-2013, 04:15 AM
**** Don King.:cool2:
Wow, you know your stuff.

Bolo Punch
07-07-2013, 09:33 AM
Of course in hindsight it's pretty easy to say that the fight shouldn't have been stopped with just a few seconds left but I don't believe that the referee could've known there was so little time remaining. To him, there still could've been another minute to go in that round, which could've proved to be career-ending for Taylor if he'd had time to take a few more clean shots. Taylor certainly didn't help himself either, as when he was asked if he was okay and able to continue he stood stationary in the neutral corner, holding onto the ropes and looked towards his own corner rather than trying to prove to Steele that he was able to continue in the fight, no matter how long was remaining.

chrismart83
07-07-2013, 12:28 PM
Steele got it right IMO.

I.R.I.E
07-07-2013, 12:45 PM
Of course in hindsight it's pretty easy to say that the fight shouldn't have been stopped with just a few seconds left but I don't believe that the referee could've known there was so little time remaining. To him, there still could've been another minute to go in that round, which could've proved to be career-ending for Taylor if he'd had time to take a few more clean shots. Taylor certainly didn't help himself either, as when he was asked if he was okay and able to continue he stood stationary in the neutral corner, holding onto the ropes and looked towards his own corner rather than trying to prove to Steele that he was able to continue in the fight, no matter how long was remaining.

Pretty much this. Ref did his job imo.

joseph5620
07-07-2013, 01:13 PM
Of course in hindsight it's pretty easy to say that the fight shouldn't have been stopped with just a few seconds left but I don't believe that the referee could've known there was so little time remaining. To him, there still could've been another minute to go in that round, which could've proved to be career-ending for Taylor if he'd had time to take a few more clean shots. Taylor certainly didn't help himself either, as when he was asked if he was okay and able to continue he stood stationary in the neutral corner, holding onto the ropes and looked towards his own corner rather than trying to prove to Steele that he was able to continue in the fight, no matter how long was remaining.

Wrong. The referee knows when a round is nearing the end. That's what the 10 second warning lights are for. And yes, Steele saw them.

DeepSleep
07-07-2013, 03:02 PM
The rules do not change depending on how much time is left in the round. Taylor did not respond to the ref so the fight was stopped, whether there was 2 seconds or 2 minutes left is irrelevant.

Ziggy Stardust
07-07-2013, 03:33 PM
Wrong. The referee knows when a round is nearing the end. That's what the 10 second warning lights are for. And yes, Steele saw them.

Not to mention they bang on the ring apron at the 10 second mark as well.

Poet

mickey malone
07-07-2013, 04:02 PM
"Public stoning" is more than a little hyperbolic. Taylor wasn't taking a one way beating in that round. If Steele was "just doing his job" Chavez would have been standing in a neutral corner opposed to the center of the ring. You can't have it both ways by claiming Steele was just doing his job while ignoring what he wasn't doing correctly.
Not quite... Taylor goes down in his own corner, then Chavez without delay, turns and walks to the corner opposite (his own).. Why, i don't know, but within a few secs, he headed to the neutral corner on his right, but stood just outside of it, and not heading for the centre of the ring until after Steel had waved it off..
I'll give you, that Steel may have focused more on Taylor's injuries than what was behind him. Taylor's head was starting to look like a pumpkin, so it's easy to see how he got distracted.. Loads of sympathy for Taylor, but he was totally gassed, getting hurt, and incoherent.. Steel did that part of his job very well.

rightsideup
07-07-2013, 05:58 PM
I voted that the fight was stopped prematurely but can understand the merits of other the other viewpoint. I happened to be at the Tyson Rudduck 1 fight when steele stopped it and the riot ensued. As I ran out ironically I was discussing the stoppage with another fan and Meldrick Taylor joined in our conversation and said that steele stopped the fight too soon and ripped off Ruddock like he had ripped off himself. This is the best pro card I have seen and meeting meldrick and terry/orlin Norris pre-fight is something I will alway's remember. The Taylor/chavez 1 stoppage will always remain one of the great debate's of the sport.

Scott9945
07-07-2013, 08:14 PM
I voted that the fight was stopped prematurely but can understand the merits of other the other viewpoint. I happened to be at the Tyson Rudduck 1 fight when steele stopped it and the riot ensued. As I ran out ironically I was discussing the stoppage with another fan and Meldrick Taylor joined in our conversation and said that steele stopped the fight too soon and ripped off Ruddock like he had ripped off himself. This is the best pro card I have seen and meeting meldrick and terry/orlin Norris pre-fight is something I will alway's remember. The Taylor/chavez 1 stoppage will always remain one of the great debate's of the sport.

It has replaced the "Long Count" as boxings all time biggest controversy. The debates are still heated and the poll results here indicate how divided fans are about it.

saintpat
07-07-2013, 10:34 PM
Steel asked him twice if he was good and Taylor never answered.

Doesn't matter if it was 1/10th of a second. The point is to incapacitate your opponent (or to outbox him to win a decision). Chavez achieved that -- Taylor was in no condition to continue and couldn't even nod his head or look the ref in he eye when his condition was being assessed. At that point, he's unable to continue -- fight over.

Otherwise, they should schedule fights for 11 rounds, 2 minutes and 50 seconds.

Humean
07-09-2013, 07:30 PM
If the referee isn't responsible for keeping a fighter in a neutral corner, then who is?

I never said that that wasn't the referee's job. Steele did order Chavez to the neutral corner. If Chavez wasn't there then Steele cannot have eyes in the back of his head monitoring Chavez's exact positioning whilst counting over Taylor. Do you not realize how desperately absurd your point is on this issue? Anyway others have correctly pointed out Chavez's movement behind Steele's back.

That is a boxing rule, not a conspiracy
I never said that was a conspiracy. I said your general view of what happened in this fight was a conspiracy.

If you really believe in all this 'house fighter' stuff as explaining the results in boxing, then why do you bother to watch and indeed like the sport? If I thought like you on that then I would not have any interest in the sport whatsoever.

Scott9945
07-09-2013, 07:43 PM
I never said that that wasn't the referee's job. Steele did order Chavez to the neutral corner. If Chavez wasn't there then Steele cannot have eyes in the back of his head monitoring Chavez's exact positioning whilst counting over Taylor. Do you not realize how desperately absurd your point is on this issue? Anyway others have correctly pointed out Chavez's movement behind Steele's back.


I never said that was a conspiracy. I said your general view of what happened in this fight was a conspiracy.

If you really believe in all this 'house fighter' stuff as explaining the results in boxing, then why do you bother to watch and indeed like the sport? If I thought like you on that then I would not have any interest in the sport whatsoever.


The referee can stand sideways. Ever hear of peripheral vision? The first Bute-Andrade fight (among others) shows an example of this.

If you don't believe the house fighter often gets preferential treatment in boxing, you are very na´ve. I can spend all day listing examples of this. I love the sport of boxing , warts and all. I can make the same comment about those who hate multiple champions, corrupt promoters, etc. You really shouldn't try to determine what someone else's standards and tolerance should be.

Humean
07-09-2013, 08:11 PM
The referee can stand sideways. Ever hear of peripheral vision? The first Bute-Andrade fight (among others) shows an example of this.

Do you mean the end of the first fight? I do not consider that an example of good refereeing. The fighter if standing in an incorrect position can always be held back by the referee after a count anyway before letting him at his opponent. I really don't know why I am continuing to debate this point!

If you don't believe the house fighter often gets preferential treatment in boxing, you are very na´ve. I can spend all day listing examples of this. I love the sport of boxing , warts and all. I can make the same comment about those who hate multiple champions, corrupt promoters, etc. You really shouldn't try to determine what someone else's standards and tolerance should be.

I never actually argued against the idea that a 'house fighter' gets preferential treatment, your argument goes beyond that conclusion. Your argument ends with the conclusion of fraud not mere preferential treatment. I think the judges often display unconscious bias towards the better known fighter as well as often to the fighter who the crowd seems to support. The former I think is the more usual occurrence, especially when said fighter is so tight up with the whole promotion of the event.

Why shouldn't i try and determine what someone else's standards and tolerance should be? Your opinions/beliefs stand the test of consistency like everyone else's, such as my own. I genuinely wanted to understand how you would cohere your stated opinions/beliefs with your love for boxing.

Ziggy Stardust
07-09-2013, 08:23 PM
Do you mean the end of the first fight? I do not consider that an example of good refereeing. The fighter if standing in an incorrect position can always be held back by the referee after a count anyway before letting him at his opponent. I really don't know why I am continuing to debate this point!

I never actually argued against the idea that a 'house fighter' gets preferential treatment, your argument goes beyond that conclusion. Your argument ends with the conclusion of fraud not mere preferential treatment. I think the judges often display unconscious bias towards the better known fighter as well as often to the fighter who the crowd seems to support. The former I think is the more usual occurrence, especially when said fighter is so tight up with the whole promotion of the event.

Why shouldn't i try and determine what someone else's standards and tolerance should be? Your opinions/beliefs stand the test of consistency like everyone else's, such as my own. I genuinely wanted to understand how you would cohere your stated opinions/beliefs with your love for boxing.

Are you claiming there's never been fixed fights in boxing? Really?!?!

Poet

Humean
07-09-2013, 08:37 PM
Are you claiming there's never been fixed fights in boxing? Really?!?!

where did I say that?

Ziggy Stardust
07-09-2013, 08:45 PM
where did I say that?

>>>>>

I never actually argued against the idea that a 'house fighter' gets preferential treatment, your argument goes beyond that conclusion. Your argument ends with the conclusion of fraud not mere preferential treatment. I think the judges often display unconscious bias towards the better known fighter as well as often to the fighter who the crowd seems to support. The former I think is the more usual occurrence, especially when said fighter is so tight up with the whole promotion of the event.

The implication is clear that you're rejecting the idea that fights are fixed (ie fraud, conspiracy) as opposed to mere "preferential treatment".

Poet

Humean
07-09-2013, 09:02 PM
The implication is clear that you're rejecting the idea that fights are fixed (ie fraud, conspiracy) as opposed to mere "preferential treatment".

At present in at least places like USA, Britain, Germany etc then yes I do believe that. I think fixed fights there are a thing of the past, mainly but not soley because of organized crime having only a peripheral involvement in boxing in these countries today. Historically I of course know there were a lot of fraudulent fights, read my comments on the Sharkey Carnera fight as evidence of this. Nothing of what I have said here though means that there couldn't be a fixed fight in even these countries, just that there doesn't seem to be any here anymore, especially not at the top end of the sport.

Ziggy Stardust
07-09-2013, 09:28 PM
At present in at least places like USA, Britain, Germany etc then yes I do believe that. I think fixed fights there are a thing of the past, mainly but not soley because of organized crime having only a peripheral involvement in boxing in these countries today. Historically I of course know there were a lot of fraudulent fights, read my comments on the Sharkey Carnera fight as evidence of this. Nothing of what I have said here though means that there couldn't be a fixed fight in even these countries, just that there doesn't seem to be any here anymore, especially not at the top end of the sport.

What planet are you living on? Don King IS (or at least WAS up until recently) organized crime.

Poet

Humean
07-09-2013, 09:43 PM
What planet are you living on? Don King IS (or at least WAS up until recently) organized crime.

He ran a numbers racket back in the day. He may have engaged in criminal practices as a promoter and manager but he is not part of an organized crime in the relevant sense. The significance of organized crime on boxing is their ability, usually through bribes to one of the fighters, to throw the fight for as I can see one of two purposes
1) to bring gambling returns for the criminals/gangsters
2) to help bolster the record/career of the non bribed fighter in order to gain from his increased purses in the future (which they steal), Primo Carnera and especially Don Jordan are the best attested examples of this.

This doesn't seem to occur in USA anymore, organized crime figures are not unofficially 'managing' fighters, at least not at the top end, and why do so at the bottom end where there is no money?

The corruption and illegal behaviour of Don King doesn't seem to reach to fixed fights.

bklynboy
07-09-2013, 09:43 PM
them key words right thur, in the moment. we speculatin n tryna explain, rathionalize, etc. here's an alternative u don't want, steel ax him twice n takes about 3 seconds off the clock before he waves it off. if he did taylor like nady did vargas v tito, like just wipes off meldrick gloves and waves Julio in, Julio can land another 5 shots with his full weight in them n if taylor lives then he probly ends up talkin like he does way bfor he gets a shot at aaron davis belt. or taylor slips into a coma and everyone pissed at steele for not thinkin of the fighters safety. the ref is closest in there,when he makes a questionable ruling, we trust he had ample reason to. of course when steele lets ray leonard excessively clinch and bolo right into haglers cup right in front of his face and take no points away, we have to admit he aint that good a ref. matter of fact, I don't even think steel even said nothing to ray when he bolo'd haglers cup n it was right in front of steels country talkin face. shake han an g'luck. fk Richard steele. but I don't have a problem with the taylor stoppage

excellent point. It really isn't a question of stopping with 2 seconds left but letting the fight go on with 5 or 6 seconds left. More than enough time for a desperate JCC to seriously hurt Taylor.

Ziggy Stardust
07-09-2013, 09:48 PM
He ran a numbers racket back in the day. He may have engaged in criminal practices as a promoter and manager but he is not part of an organized crime in the relevant sense. The significance of organized crime on boxing is their ability, usually through bribes to one of the fighters, to throw the fight for as I can see one of two purposes
1) to bring gambling returns for the criminals/gangsters
2) to help bolster the record/career of the non bribed fighter in order to gain from his increased purses in the future (which they steal), Primo Carnera and especially Don Jordan are the best attested examples of this.

This doesn't seem to occur in USA anymore, organized crime figures are not unofficially 'managing' fighters, at least not at the top end, and why do so at the bottom end where there is no money?

The corruption and illegal behaviour of Don King doesn't seem to reach to fixed fights.

Apparently you missed the "United States Boxing Tournament" on ABC Sports back in 1977: Completely a Don King promotion, it featured blatantly fixed fights and wound up being pulled by ABC.

Poet

Humean
07-09-2013, 09:53 PM
That was the 70s. I am talking about recent times. I thought that was obvious in regards to my comments about the state of boxing today, I do not deny historical cases of fraudulent fights.

Ziggy Stardust
07-09-2013, 09:56 PM
That was the 70s. I am talking about recent times. I thought that was obvious in regards to my comments about the state of boxing today, I do not deny historical cases of fraudulent fights.

Chavez - Taylor I (1990) was a hell of a lot closer in time to 1977 than it is to today. That fight doesn't qualify as "recent times" by any stretch of the fvcking imagination.

Poet

Humean
07-09-2013, 10:10 PM
Chavez - Taylor I (1990) was a hell of a lot closer in time to 1977 than it is to today. That fight doesn't qualify as "recent times" by any stretch of the fvcking imagination.

I regard Chavez - Taylor (1990) closer to the current climate that i'm talking about than to the mid/end of 70s ring magazine scandal, the full details of which I do not think we have knowledge of in regards to actual 'fixes'. The ratings part seems to be well attested to but not the 'fix' part. The relevant cases of organized crime involvement that produced fixed fights seemed to be over by the 60s. Then a numbers racketeer with undoubted connections to organized crime - probably still the case up to today - enters the scene in the mid 70s. His old shady ways are perfectly suited to the shadiness that boxing has seemed to be able to thrive in and he produced a more than corrupt tournament in the late 70s. Were there fixed fights though? Maybe, but if so they do not fit the pattern that seems to have arisen since organized crime lost a grip on the sport. 1990 is most defintiely recent times in regards to the history of this particular subject.

Scott9945
07-09-2013, 10:30 PM
Apparently you missed the "United States Boxing Tournament" on ABC Sports back in 1977: Completely a Don King promotion, it featured blatantly fixed fights and wound up being pulled by ABC.

Poet

The saintly Ring Magazine had their hands all over that too. King has been involved in many, many shady boxing occurrences since then.

Ziggy Stardust
07-09-2013, 10:48 PM
I regard Chavez - Taylor (1990) closer to the current climate that i'm talking about than to the mid/end of 70s ring magazine scandal, the full details of which I do not think we have knowledge of in regards to actual 'fixes'. The ratings part seems to be well attested to but not the 'fix' part. The relevant cases of organized crime involvement that produced fixed fights seemed to be over by the 60s. Then a numbers racketeer with undoubted connections to organized crime - probably still the case up to today - enters the scene in the mid 70s. His old shady ways are perfectly suited to the shadiness that boxing has seemed to be able to thrive in and he produced a more than corrupt tournament in the late 70s. Were there fixed fights though? Maybe, but if so they do not fit the pattern that seems to have arisen since organized crime lost a grip on the sport. 1990 is most defintiely recent times in regards to the history of this particular subject.

Oh yeah, 1990 is "recent" but 1977 is "Jurassic". Please continue talking out of your anus.....I need the laughs.

Poet

Humean
07-09-2013, 10:57 PM
Oh yeah, 1990 is "recent" but 1977 is "Jurassic". Please continue talking out of your anus.....I need the laughs.

Your inability to even comprehend the argument is worrisome. As to your laughter, Ecclesiastes 7:6 springs to mind.

Ziggy Stardust
07-09-2013, 11:00 PM
Your inability to even comprehend the argument is worrisome. As to your laughter, Ecclesiastes 7:6 springs to mind.

You have no argument.

In your case Poet 3:19 springs to mind: Quit before you make an even bigger ass out of yourself than you already have.

Poet