Sherdog.com’s Pound-for-Pound Top 10

Tuesday, August 11, 2009

Sherdog.com’s Pound-for-Pound Top 10 Anderson Silva has sat atop Sherdog.com’s pound-for-pound list since September 2007. Though there has always been spirited debate over whose accomplishments reign supreme in the sport, Silva’s alpha dog status came under critical fire following dismal victories over Patrick Cote and Thales Leites. Sterling wins over elite fighters like Dan Henderson and Nate Marquardt, as well as his pair of destructions of Rich Franklin, seemed like distant memories.

Saturday night in Philadelphia, those memories came flooding back.

In just more than three minutes, Silva destroyed Forrest Griffin, a former entrant on this list, in stark and brutal fashion. The victory was so convincing that it actually served as a catalyst, as “The Spider” ran away with the Sherdog.com fan poll asking readers who they felt was the top pound-for-pound fighter in the sport. Fifty-three percent of the 40,000-plus votes cast favored the Curitiban.

The weekend was not entirely kind to pound-for-pound standouts, however. Miguel Torres looked to become the first bantamweight in the history of the sport to piece together a consistent, quality resume. However, his 17-fight winning streak was quickly snapped, as unbeaten challenger Brian Bowles punched him out in the first frame and took his spot atop the 135-pound division.

1. Anderson Silva (25-4)
After lackluster efforts in his middleweight title defenses against Cote and Leites, Silva drew the scorn and ire of fans, fighters, journalists and even UFC President Dana White. However, in his 205-pound bout with former UFC light heavyweight champion Griffin on Aug. 8, Silva smashed a quality fighter in historically brutal fashion. There are rumblings now that “The Spider” will vacate his middleweight crown in favor of a permanent move to 205 pounds, which would allow him to continue to add to an outstanding resume.

2. Georges St. Pierre (19-2)
Talk had brewed of a pound-for-pound super fight following St. Pierre’s July handling of top contender Thiago Alves, but with Silva’s blowout of Griffin, discussions of St. Pierre-Silva have cooled. That works fine for St. Pierre, who is keen to continue defending his welterweight title. He now awaits his next contender -- the winner of the Mike Swick-Martin Kampmann title eliminator at UFC 103 on Sept. 19.

3. Fedor Emelianenko (30-1, 1 NC)
Just as fellow pound-for-pound kings Silva and St. Pierre had blockbuster summer bouts to add to their respective resumes, Emelianenko was scheduled to meet Josh Barnett at Affliction “Trilogy” on Aug. 1. One failed pre-licensing drug test later, Emelianenko no longer had a fight due to Barnett’s most recent steroid indiscretions. The sport’s heavyweight ruler has since signed with Strikeforce and will make his promotional debut in the fall.

4. Lyoto Machida (15-0)
Many fans and pundits are already calling for Zuffa to put enough money on the table to grease the wheels of a Machida-Silva showdown. Whether or not Machida ever ends up fighting his pal, the Shotokan stalwart still has a date with rejuvenated light heavyweight Mauricio “Shogun” Rua at UFC 104 in October in what will be the first defense of his UFC light heavyweight title.

Stephen Martinez/Sherdog.com

The unassuming featherweight
ruler of MMA clocks in at five.
5. Mike Thomas Brown (22-4)
The unassuming featherweight ruler of MMA has turned in a stellar run over the last three years, with 10 victories in a row, including a pair of wins over former featherweight kingpin and pound-for-pound entrant Urijah Faber. As Zuffa continues to gobble up more and more top featherweights under the WEC banner, Brown will have the chance to put together a muscular resume. However, the biggest challenge for the 33-year-old American Top Teamer may be his next one, as he will meet fire-breathing 22-year-old phenom Jose Aldo in November.

6. B.J. Penn (14-5-1)
Penn may be the most gifted fighter on this list. At UFC 101, he showed exactly why the MMA world anointed him from day one, as he put on arguably his most consummate performance as a prizefighter, nullifying Kenny Florian for 15 minutes before routing him in the fourth frame and finishing him by submission. The next challenger to Penn’s UFC lightweight title figures to be Diego Sanchez in the coming months. If Penn chooses to continue his reign as a lightweight -- the role everyone but he himself has long desired -- he will only climb this list and validate his enormous talent.

7. Quinton Jackson (30-7)
Between his energy drink-fueled legal indiscretions, lascivious actions in video interviews and candid quotes, Jackson does not always stay relevant due to his fighting accomplishments. However, Jackson is 4-1 against five straight top 10 opponents in one of MMA’s deepest divisions. His sixth straight 205-pound standout foe will be Rashad Evans in December, after the two square off as coaches on the forthcoming season of “The Ultimate Fighter.”

8. Jon Fitch (19-3, 1 NC)
Fitch does not have the scintillating offense of a Silva, Emelianenko or Penn, and he’s the only entrant on this list who has not won a major title in the UFC, WEC or Pride. What Fitch does possess, however, is a gaudy 10-1 mark in the UFC, as he has racked up top 10 victories in MMA’s historically deepest and most talented division. He may be the welterweight division’s perennial second banana, but that remains an extremely meritorious position.

9. Rashad Evans (13-1-1)
Evans’ first defense of the UFC light heavyweight belt in May was a disaster, as he was dominated from bell-to-bell by Machida. However, Evans will have the chance to get back in line for a rematch with Machida, add to his resume and up his Q-rating. He will coach opposite Jackson on the 10th season of “The Ultimate Fighter,” which will lead up to a high-profile December showdown between the two.

10. Brian Bowles (8-0)
With a gaudy record and an all-out action style, Miguel Torres was supposed to be the first great bantamweight in MMA history, bringing the division to the masses. However, Bowles had other plans, as he punched out the pound-for-pound entrant in the first round, staked his claim as the sport’s top 135-pounder and earned a place on this list. Now, it will be up to Bowles to continue adding to what is quickly becoming a high-quality resume, especially by the standards of a division where historically few top fighters have fought one another. The first defense of Bowles’ newly-acquired crown will likely come against fellow upstart Dominick Cruz.

* After his Aug. 9 defeat at the hands of Bowles, the previously fifth-ranked Torres falls just outside of the pound-for-pound top 10.

LOL

This list is a joke.

LOL

This list is a joke.

Why? Just asking...

Can't really argue too much with the first 4. Everything else I'm not too sure.

Can't really argue too much with the first 4. Everything else I'm not too sure.

Ye, I gotta agree. I think the first 4 are accurate. The rest are kind of "up for grabs" and you can basically switch a few fighters here and there.

It seems like Sherdog picks flavors of the month as opposed to going based off credentials.

It seems like Sherdog picks flavors of the month as opposed to going based off credentials.

True, and I would never pick any former TUF guy, being the winner or not, to any p4p list for the sake of martial arts. Rashad lost his very first title defence and very likely eventually will lose more fights. I think that his record was basically created by putting sub-par guys in front of him to create hype.

Machida also had undefeated record (also likely against some sub-par, or against overweight BJ and stuff) and it took him very long time imo to get that titleshot where he completely dismantled Evans.

Once MMA as a sport is completely evolved, we might see only the crop of the best fighters who truly have chosen the way of martial arts and dedicated their life for it, to be in the ring or cage with each other.

The problem at the moment is the unbelievable gap of skills between true champions and average tough guys, as we saw in Machida-Evans, Silva-Griffin, Penn-Florian, GSP-..., need I say more?

And I'm not bashing any fighter, I just think they aren't as good as people have said them to be.

And after several more back-fires of a made-up TUF fighter, people will realize that and lose their interest on them because seriously taken they can't do **** at the champion level at least with any longevity.

How many of you guys are interested of watching bunch of arrogant tuf guys messing up with booze every night for months and otherwise hardly training?

Maybe I just don't get it, but reality-TV has took it's place as one of the most annoying things in my life and I hardly watch TV anymore because of that.

Why? Just asking...

The fact that Rashad Evans has made it. In his entire career he has beaten one paper champion in Griffin and was completely demolished by a real champion. The peak of his career is a fight with Forres Griffin. Evans is gate keeper material IMO.

And not that it makes the list a joke at all, but I think that Fedor is still the GOAT and deserves to be #1 P4P, it just seems Sherdog is a little emotional over him not signing with the UFC. Anderson is a close second tho.

The fact that Rashad Evans has made it. In his entire career he has beaten one paper champion in Griffin and was completely demolished by a real champion. The peak of his career is a fight with Forres Griffin. Evans is gate keeper material IMO.

And not that it makes the list a joke at all, but I think that Fedor is still the GOAT and deserves to be #1 P4P, it just seems Sherdog is a little emotional over him not signing with the UFC. Anderson is a close second tho.

All you were opposed to is Evans on that list. Other than that, you made no other complaints, so I don't see why it's as horrible as you make it out to be.

Also, most lists that I've seen have Anderson as number one. If we go by career achievements, than there should be more people on that list that aren't there. However, a P4P list is not based upon career achievements. It's the current value of a fighter in comparison to the value other top fighters.

The fact that Rashad Evans has made it. In his entire career he has beaten one paper champion in Griffin and was completely demolished by a real champion. The peak of his career is a fight with Forres Griffin. Evans is gate keeper material IMO.

How can you say Rashad beating Forrest is not deserving of being mentioned in P4P discussion... but yet you call Machida a real champion and worthy of being a P4P fighter when he hasn't beaten anybody notable that Rashad hasn't on his way to the top?

Machida hasn't even had a defense of his title yet.

How does Machida beating an overrated fighter, qualify him for P4P, but not Rashad?

How can you say Rashad beating Forrest is not deserving of being mentioned in P4P discussion... but yet you call Machida a real champion and worthy of being a P4P fighter when he hasn't beaten anybody notable that Rashad hasn't on his way to the top?

Machida hasn't even had a defense of his title yet.

How does Machida beating an overrated fighter, qualify him for P4P, but not Rashad?

That's true. If it's concluded that Rashad is nothing special, than Machida's win against Rashad which saw him win the LHW title is equally nothing special.

How can you say Rashad beating Forrest is not deserving of being mentioned in P4P discussion... but yet you call Machida a real champion and worthy of being a P4P fighter when he hasn't beaten anybody notable that Rashad hasn't on his way to the top?

Machida hasn't even had a defense of his title yet.

How does Machida beating an overrated fighter, qualify him for P4P, but not Rashad?

Machida kayoed Rich Franklyn in his 3rd fight and decisioned HW kickboxers Michael McDonald and Sam Grecco in his 4th and 5th. He also dominated Thiago Alves in his last fight before Rashad, after coming off wins agaisnt Sokoudjou and Ortiz. In addition, his victory over Rashad was shear domination.

I'm looking for Machida to rise up the ranks over his next couple fights. I can see him being #1 in due time.

Is Swick British?

Or did he fight someone British?

This list is a joke.

Exactly. Except I don't find it remotely funny. **** ****dog. Worse pile of dog**** on the internets.

E

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5546829&postcount=9

One and two stay the same; GSP moves up to three; Finito Torres drops down to four; and A. Silva keeps his spot at five, barely. Aoki drops off the top five list into honourable mention, where GSP moved up from.

E

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5546829&postcount=9

One and two stay the same; GSP moves up to three; Finito Torres drops down to four; and A. Silva keeps his spot at five, barely. Aoki drops off the top five list into honourable mention, where GSP moved up from.

E

You honestly think Sherdog is a joke, when you have Anderson Silva at number 5? No reputable MMA columnist or person who follows MMA would put Anderson Silva number 5. I've heard of people putting him at number 3 and they've supported that reason (although even that is too low), but number 5 is ridiculous. Unless you provide why.

Pound-for-pound, he is not better than the four fighters ranked ahead of him. He has holes in his game that have yet to be tested/corrected because ZUFFA, LLC. matchmaking isn't going to expose him to the challenges of a stylistic challenge to his faux supremacy. E.G. In LHW, they fed him James Irvin (lol) and Forrest Griffin, who didn't insomuch as attempt to take him down, and stood/banged with him. Absurd. Watch Lutter, Chonan, and Takase fights.

E

How can you say Rashad beating Forrest is not deserving of being mentioned in P4P discussion... but yet you call Machida a real champion and worthy of being a P4P fighter when he hasn't beaten anybody notable that Rashad hasn't on his way to the top?

Machida hasn't even had a defense of his title yet.

How does Machida beating an overrated fighter, qualify him for P4P, but not Rashad?

Simply, Forrest happens to be another gatekeeper who just happened to kick still standing Rampage's leg into pieces and almost only by that get the decicion win in a championship match.

In his first defense, which was the only other 'fair' fight (considering both fighters' skills), another gatekeeper (Evans) knocked him out in the point where he was winning the fight, and took his belt just to get point-striked to death in the very first defense by a once-said-to-be-featherfisted true martial artist (Machida), who he could barely touch.

The former belt holder (Griffin) decided to take a match with Machida's fellow martial artist, arguably one of the best p4p (Silva), getting knocked out in the second half of the first round without landing any strike. Shooting would have been hopeless since every time he attacked Silva was gone and giving straight punches to his face. Never in this fight he was in shooting range of his abilities.

That was what I meant with longevity, they couldn't hold their territories the first time they were put against serious world-class competitors. Both of them were simply outclassed and put aside by a much more complete fighter.

When you look these fights and fail to see that Silva and Machida are just on a whole different level of fighting compared to Griffin and Evans, I'd suggest you to go straight to a doctor, without visiting the optician.

Machida kayoed Rich Franklyn in his 3rd fight and decisioned HW kickboxers Michael McDonald and Sam Grecco in his 4th and 5th. He also dominated Thiago Alves in his last fight before Rashad, after coming off wins agaisnt Sokoudjou and Ortiz. In addition, his victory over Rashad was shear domination.

I'm looking for Machida to rise up the ranks over his next couple fights. I can see him being #1 in due time.

-Sokoudjou was a hype job.
-Ortiz, IMO, was never that great and at the time wasn't even ranked
-He never fought Thiago Alves and if you mean Thiago Silva, this was the same guy who had difficulty getting Houston ****ing Alexander to the ground.

Essentially the win over Rashad shot him up to ungodly status and for what reason? If Rashad is nothing more than a B Level fighter and another paper champion to you guys, why does that make Machida so great?


http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5546829&postcount=9

One and two stay the same; GSP moves up to three; Finito Torres drops down to four; and A. Silva keeps his spot at five, barely. Aoki drops off the top five list into honourable mention, where GSP moved up from.

E

You had Torres above St. Pierre and Aoki in the top 5? Are you on crack?


Do you guys have any idea what P4P means?


Anderson Silva is, IMO, the P4P best fighter right now. Because he is doing exactly what P4P is and challenging himself and putting his skills to the test at higher weights.

with GSP at #2

and Fedor @ #3 due to his lack consistency fighting top fighters.

I'm not saying Machida isn't a good fighter, he's a great fighter but putting him any higher than #4 at this point is ludicrous

Do you guys have any idea what P4P means?


Do YOU know what pound-for-pound means?

E

Pound-for-pound, he is not better than the four fighters ranked ahead of him.

How though? He is 10-0 in the UFC and has notable wins over guys like Franklin (twice), Henderson, Lutter etc. He's held the middleweight belt since 2006. I'd be interested in your special definition of P4P cause I think that's where the problem lies. Till now, he is the most valued fighter in MMA.

He has holes in his game that have yet to be tested/corrected because ZUFFA, LLC. matchmaking isn't going to expose him to the challenges of a stylistic challenge to his faux supremacy.

Who do you suggest they put him against? It seems you're there to criticize every one of his opponents. It's not his fault that he keeps obliterated his competition. But honestly...what hole is there in his game? He has fought some of the most diverse fighters from BJJ specialists to world-class wrestlers and has still come out on top. He cleaned the middleweight division and has recently moved to LHW.

Support your claim that he has holes. Otherwise anyone can make that claim. I can claim that Machida has a lot of holes in his game but since he has not faced the right competitor to expose his flaws, they aren't evident. However, that's not a good argument because there's little evidence to back up my claim. Can you find evidence to back up yours?

E.G. In LHW, they fed him James Irvin (lol) and Forrest Griffin, who didn't insomuch as attempt to take him down, and stood/banged with him. Absurd.

Do you watch any Griffin fights? How many times (as of late) has Griffin attempted to take his opponents down? That's not his usual style. He's a brawler. It was no surprise that he would try and stand and bang with Silva. I don't know why it's a surprise to you though.

Watch Lutter, Chonan, and Takase fights.
E

He beat Lutter. Chonan loss was in 2004 and Takase loss was in 2003. How on earth can you honestly judge Silva's current P4P status by mentioning a loss he had in 2004 and 2003? Your P4P assessments are flawed if that's what you go by. That's some of the most ridiculous ****. He's improved a lot since then. How can you still hold him to those losses when they were so long ago? It's easy to see that you have a very clear bias against Silva. Very clear!

Do YOU know what pound-for-pound means?

E

Yes and having Aoki and Torres in your top five is ****ing ridiculous

Do you guys have any idea what P4P means?


Evidently, not. These guys seems to think that a big win in 2003 or a big loss in 2003 affects someone's current P4P status. They seem to think that P4P means "career achievements" rather than "current value". It's a joke man. Some of them have absolutely no idea what it means. And when they're called to give a definition, they fall short or refuse to give one at all.

-Sokoudjou was a hype job.
-Ortiz, IMO, was never that great and at the time wasn't even ranked
-He never fought Thiago Alves and if you mean Thiago Silva, this was the same guy who had difficulty getting Houston ****ing Alexander to the ground.

Essentially the win over Rashad shot him up to ungodly status and for what reason? If Rashad is nothing more than a B Level fighter and another paper champion to you guys, why does that make Machida so great?

Yes, Thiago Silva of course. As for the Silva and Evans fights, it is not who he beat as much as how he won. He dominated and then kayoed both guys, hardly being touched for his troubles.

I think anyone who has remotely followed Machida's career knew that Rashad was going to be blown away in their fight. Circular reasoning does not work in fight sports, so the nature of Machida's performance is just as valid as anything. For instance, I consider Forest a bum and I don't put a whole lot of stock in Silva's victory, however the way in which he absolutely dominated the fight is still worthy of note.

Machida's knockout victory over Rich Franklyn is more impressive then anything on Forest or Evan's records, and this came in just his 3rd fight. Keep in mind that Franklyn's only other losses have come against Silva 2x and the split decision loss to Henderson.

In addition, as far as technical skills go, Machida is in a class all his own in regards to what it is he does, which is to land effectively and not get hit. Machida has hardly been tested in any of his UFC fights to date.

Do YOU know what pound-for-pound means?

E

Yes, and by that I can for example tell YOU that Brock Lesnar made 5'7''/160lbs. will get beaten much worse than Sean Sherk by BJ Penn.

How though? He is 10-0 in the UFC and has notable wins over guys like Franklin (twice), Henderson, Lutter etc. He's held the middleweight belt since 2006. I'd be interested in your special definition of P4P cause I think that's where the problem lies. Till now, he is the most valued fighter in MMA.

Valued? What the **** do you mean by "valued"? That is not even a germane term in regards to combat sports, unless you're a promoter and trying to get bang for your investment buck.

Being 10-0 in the UFC®, or anywhere, doesn't make one #1 pound-for-pound. Wherever told you that lied to you. How is Lutter a "notable" win? How? And beating Franklin is unimpressive. Henderson is the only one I will concede to from the above paragraph.


Who do you suggest they put him against? It seems you're there to criticize every one of his opponents. It's not his fault that he keeps obliterated his competition. But honestly...what hole is there in his game? He has fought some of the most diverse fighters from BJJ specialists to world-class wrestlers and has still come out on top. He cleaned the middleweight division and has recently moved to LHW.

Maybe you should watch his fights if you believe he has no holes in his game. And which "BJJ specialists" did he face? Which "world-class" wrestlers? You seem to be confused, or be immensely misinformed as to the current list of BJJ World Champions and World Class Wrestlers. He hasn't cleaned out ****. They banished Lindland when he was #1 Middleweight in the World so he wouldn't ruin their little anemic Middleweight division; they refuse to allow Henderson a rematch; they are clearly adamantly, ala Machida pre-commercial hype (after 98), opposed to permit Maia to demolish "names" in the division in fear of an inevitable match-up against their protected A. Silva; and they would never fathom bringing in Jacare, who would takedown and submit Anderson da Silva with ease in less than half a round.


Support your claim that he has holes. Otherwise anyone can make that claim. I can claim that Machida has a lot of holes in his game but since he has not faced the right competitor to expose his flaws, they aren't evident. However, that's not a good argument because there's little evidence to back up my claim. Can you find evidence to back up yours?

Maybe if you learned how to ****ing read, you would see that I listed EXAMPLED GIVEN in the previous entry in this thread.


Do you watch any Griffin fights? How many times (as of late) has Griffin attempted to take his opponents down? That's not his usual style. He's a brawler. It was no surprise that he would try and stand and bang with Silva. I don't know why it's a surprise to you though.

Are you illiterate? That is EXACTLY my point. Honestly, are you illiterate? Griffin was HAND-PICKED from the LHW roster "names" (fighters known to the populace, which would thereby impressive TUF®-era douchebags who don't know **** about the sport) to face A. Silva because they knew he brought exactly what A. Silva needed to highlight his skills, but possessed no stylistic challenge or threat to A. Silva.


He beat Lutter. Chonan loss was in 2004 and Takase loss was in 2003. How on earth can you honestly judge Silva's current P4P status by mentioning a loss he had in 2004 and 2003? Your P4P assessments are flawed if that's what you go by. That's some of the most ridiculous ****. He's improved a lot since then. How can you still hold him to those losses when they were so long ago? It's easy to see that you have a very clear bias against Silva. Very clear!

I mention losses in 2003 and 2004, and withhold mentioning the 2005-2006 loss to Okami, because it is a matter of producing empirical data that proves that A. Silva has trouble with certain styles and would probably lose if he were to face individuals from that school of fighting. Pound-for-pound, in case you are unaware, means ignoring weight classes and size advantages, and ranking an individual's skill set with others. If A. Silva and Fedor were the same size, which they practically are, who would defeat who? It's easy to see that you are blinded by ZUFFA, LLC.'s marketing and matchmaking, and cannot see the obvious: A. Silva has been HUMILIATED when put on his back time and time again. Has Fedor suffered such a fate? No. Because his skill set is lightyears beyond A. Silva's. Has Miguelito Torres suffered such a fate? No. Yep, you guessed it; because his skill set is lightyears beyond A. Silva's.



Yes and having Aoki and Torres in your top five is ****ing ridiculous

That's your opinion. You have a right to your opinion. Enjoy it. Cherish. Tweet and make a vblog about it. But don't run your ****ing mouth at me like if you're a goddamn regular MMA Burt Sugar without insomuch as presenting an argument as to why whoever the **** you believe is ranked above Torres and Aoki is ranked above Torres and Aoki. Moreover, if you take your head out of your ass, you'd notice that Aoki was on my pound-for-pound list earlier in the year (do you know how to read, mother****er?), but is no longer sitting on it due to gains by GSP and A. Silva.

Evidently, not. These guys seems to think that a big win in 2003 or a big loss in 2003 affects someone's current P4P status. They seem to think that P4P means "career achievements" rather than "current value". It's a joke man. Some of them have absolutely no idea what it means. And when they're called to give a definition, they fall short or refuse to give one at all.

You're the joke. Quit your ***** ass whining and read posts more attentively; the definition is right in front of your stupid face the entire time.

E

Yes, and by that I can for example tell YOU that Brock Lesnar made 5'7''/160lbs. will get beaten much worse than Sean Sherk by BJ Penn.

Exactly. Agreed. Notice Brock Lesnar's absence from my list. BJ Penn is not there either because he has yet to challenge many of the top ten Lightweights, not entirely his fault, more ZUFFA, LLC.'s, but still, it's a problem. You clearly know what pound-for-pound means.

E

Valued? What the **** do you mean by "valued"? That is not even a germane term in regards to combat sports, unless you're a promoter and trying to get bang for your investment buck.


E

Most valued is the Man you got to beat to BE the Man

Being 10-0 in the UFC®, or anywhere, doesn't make one #1 pound-for-pound. Wherever told you that lied to you. How is Lutter a "notable" win? How? And beating Franklin is unimpressive. Henderson is the only one I will concede to from the above paragraph.

I never said being 10-0 automically guarantees you to P4P #1 status. But it surely is a great fact to support Silva's status.

Beating Franklin twice in the fashion Silva did is unimpressive? Haha...get the fcuk outta here.

Maybe you should watch his fights if you believe he has no holes in his game. And which "BJJ specialists" did he face?

Thales Leites. And many consider Lutter to be have amazing BJJ skills as well. Don't tell me how "unimpressive those fights were". You asked for specialists you got them.

Which "world-class" wrestlers?

Henderson. And I'm supposed to be the one who's confused and misinformed? You know **** all.

You seem to be confused, or be immensely misinformed as to the current list of BJJ World Champions and World Class Wrestlers. He hasn't cleaned out ****.

I didn't say BJJ world champions. I guess you're the one who has a hard time reading. I said BJJ specialists. You seem to be unaware of Henderson's Olympic wrestling background.

The simple fact that you refuse to acknowledge any of A. Silva's skills including his elusiveness, technical striking and astounding accuracy shows your little knowledge on this subject and your complete hatred for both Zuffa and Silva.

I mention losses in 2003 and 2004,

Yeah cause you're a fckin idiot who knows fcuk all about MMA. You're trying to justify Silva being ranked 5th by saying he had losses in 2003 to Okase and 2004 to Chonan. Get the fcuk outta here with your ignorant garbage.

and withhold mentioning the 2005-2006 loss to Okami,

Okami was KO'ed from a kick to the face which was stupid to have even called it a KO. If MMA had unified rules like boxing, Silva wouldn't have that loss. Technically, he didn't lose by way of decision, TKO or submission to Okami, so it's not worth discussing.

Has Miguelito Torres suffered such a fate? No. Yep, you guessed it; because his skill set is lightyears beyond A. Silva's.

LOL this is classic. Claiming Miguel Torres, despite getting KO'ed by Brian Bowles, is higher P4P than Silva. What a joke.

Again...the fact that you refuse to acknowledge Silva's skill set shows how little you know about Silva. Doesn't make sense to be criticizing someone you know very little about.

You're the joke. Quit your ***** ass whining and read posts more attentively; the definition is right in front of your stupid face the entire time.

E

As usual, it's hard for you to begin a conversation with logical posting and rational debate without slandering and using insults. Therefore, I give you a taste of your own medicine. You seem like a very miserable person. You're always miserable on these forums. Poor guy.

Exactly. Agreed. Notice Brock Lesnar's absence from my list. BJ Penn is not there either because he has yet to challenge many of the top ten Lightweights, not entirely his fault, more ZUFFA, LLC.'s, but still, it's a problem. You clearly know what pound-for-pound means.

E

BJ is in a bad situation that his competition has been lately quite TUF-based, but in his recent LW matches he has shown he is the Man there. Penn vs. GSP was still a circus act fight GSP overweighing BJ by 10-15 pounds at whole and 25-30 pounds of muscle by fight time.

i dont care what any of you say.... 90% percent of poeple repeat what dana white says with blind faith....anderson is not p4p number 1 fedor is the p4p number 1......BUT the most talented fighter of all time is clearly BJ Penn no one even comes close and for the love of god no one say gsp because all he can do is takedowns and hold guys down... his stand up sucks..... any one who gets dominated by serra in the standup at 170 its pathetic

i dont care what any of you say.... 90% percent of poeple repeat what dana white says with blind faith....anderson is not p4p number 1 fedor is the p4p number 1......BUT the most talented fighter of all time is clearly BJ Penn no one even comes close and for the love of god no one say gsp because all he can do is takedowns and hold guys down... his stand up sucks..... any one who gets dominated by serra in the standup at 170 its pathetic

Cosigned on the bold points.

Notice how every time Delta comes back and posts on boxingscene, his posts are always a slug fest involving other posters and always regards himself as knowing more than everyone else. When the guy is not here, there's more constructive and rational debating and different opinions are passed around usually respectfully, without the slandering. I'd be the first to construct a rational debate with him, but the guy can't handle one. Seriously...he feels as though insulting the person he's arguing with makes his point seem more accurate and valid.

Has any one noticed that anderson was not labled as p4p number 1 until dana white started to say all that.... its rediculous and its pathetic

I never said being 10-0 automically guarantees you to P4P #1 status. But it surely is a great fact to support Silva's status.

Beating Franklin twice in the fashion Silva did is unimpressive? Haha...get the fcuk outta here.

Not more impressive than the two times Fedor beat Big Nog, so you get the **** out of here.


Thales Leites. And many consider Lutter to be have amazing BJJ skills as well. Don't tell me how "unimpressive those fights were". You asked for specialists you got them. Stop bi*ching.

Yeah, with Maia, Jacare, and others out there, it's fitting that they choose Leites. And Lutter won a reality tv show to get his shot, douchebag. He was NOT matched. They would never match someone who would pose a threat. Lutter took him down with ease, mounted him with ease; even teabagged him for a while for good measure.


Henderson. And I'm supposed to be the one who's confused and misinformed? You know **** all.

Henderson. When: several decades ago, you stupid ****. How is he a World Class Wrestler today? Can he make the Olympic team? Did he win a National Championship in the last years? Has he even placed anywhere (Abu Dhabi Combat Club)? You're an imbecile with zero knowledge.



I said BJJ specialists. You seem to be unaware of Henderson's Olympic wrestling background. I'm starting to really question whether it's MMA you're watching. Probably not.

Again. Again. Again. Lutter won a reality tv show (and HUMILIATED Anderson da Silva, in case you didn't notice). Leites is the only BJJ specialist, and quite frankly he sucks. Not all black belts are made equal. He's not even a World Champion. There are World Champions that are fighting Mixed Martial Arts, you know. Wait, no you don't. Never trained a day in your life; carry on. Henderson's Olympic wrestling background is from when? Last year? Was it a special 2008 Olympics in Beijing featuring Dan Henderson. I missed it; I don't watch television.


Anyhow, you're the more bias piece of **** on these forums. The simple fact that you refuse to acknowledge any of A. Silva's skills including his elusiveness, technical striking and astounding accuracy shows your little knowledge on this subject and you complete hatred for both Zuffa and Silva.

I've never refused to acknowledge any of his skills, you whiny *****. I possess little knowledge? I have complete hatred for ZUFFA, LLC.? Perhaps. But why would I rank Ryoto Lyoto Machida as #2 pound-for-pound in the World if I was so anti-ZUFFA, LLC. biased? And others from ZUFFA, LLC. on my list? Your theory has holes. Why would I have attended live in person nearly two dozen ZUFFA, LLC. events? Have you attended live in person nearly two dozen ZUFFA, LLC.- promoted events? Just curious.


Yeah cause you're a fckin idiot who knows fcuk all about MMA. You also have no idea what the term P4P means. You're trying to justify Silva being ranked 5th by saying he had losses in 2003 to Okase and 2004 to Chonan. Get the fcuk outta here with your ignorant garbage.

You're the ****ing idiot. He's ranked fifth because there are other human beings, also fighters, that are superior to him pound-for-pound.



Okami was KO'ed from a kick to the face which was stupid to have even called it a KO. If MMA had unified rules like boxing, Silva wouldn't have that loss. Technically, he didn't lose by way of decision, TKO or submission to Okami, so it's not worth discussing.

MMA has unified rules. Maybe you should research that a bit. Moreover, kicks to the head of a downed opponent (three points of contact or more) is forbidden/illegal in every state in this great union, including but not limited to every location they have held an event at. Considering that Okami was on both his knees (downed, clearly and unquestionably) and A. Silva still found it necessary to kick him with all his strength in the head area, it's ridiculous not to see that A. Silva was looking for a way out of that fight. He was on his back, and Okami was evidently going to do exactly what every other stylistic challenge has done to A. Silva: produced a unequivocal L. But he wouldn't have loss[sic]. A TUF®-era imbecile says so.


LOL this is classic. Claiming Miguel Torres, despite getting KO'ed by Brian Bowles, is higher P4P than Silva. You just knocked your own ass out. Self-pwnage.

I don't give a **** that Torres was KO'd, just like I didn't give a **** that GSP was KO'd by Matt Serra. He (St. Pierre) was still ranked #1 Welterweight in the World, and was still on the pound-for-pound list. One upset doesn't replace one person with another on a list. Torres moved down the ****ing list; are you blind or just too busy with your customised A. Silva replica dildo up your anus to realise that?


Again...the fact that you refuse to acknowledge Silva's skill set shows how little you know about Silva. Doesn't make sense to be criticizing someone you know very little about.


Who is refusing to acknowledge anyone's skill set? He is on my pound-for-pound list, you stupid TUF®-era mother****er. There are human beings, who are also professional Mixed Martial Arts fighters, who are SUPERIOR to A. Silva. If you disagree with that, fine. **** off. I'm not insisting that you agree with me, you dumb pile of elephant dung. What is your obsession that I agree with your stupid ass? **** off.


As usual, it's hard for you to begin a conversation with logical posting and rational debate without slandering and using insults. Therefore, I give you a taste of your own medicine. You seem like a very miserable person. You're always miserable on these forums. Poor guy.

Slandering? I posted a list and get attacked. I post methodology for my list and get attacked. I explain that there are other Mixed Martial Arts fighters that are superior to A. Silva and I get attacked. You seem to be unhealthily enamored with A. Silva. Maybe you'd like for him to penetrate you in the anus. I don't know; I don't care. Just stick to your list, and I'll stick to mine. I'm sure in your eyes beating Forrest Griffin catapults one to #1 pound-for-pound ALL-TIME in the Universe. Douche.

E

i dont care what any of you say.... 90% percent of poeple repeat what dana white says with blind faith....anderson is not p4p number 1 fedor is the p4p number 1

I hate Anderson Silva and I don't agree with Dana White on pretty much anything. But Anderson Silva is arugably #1 P4P because what he is doing is what P4P is. There is no really arguing it at this point.


......BUT the most talented fighter of all time is clearly BJ Penn

LOLZ. Whatever you say. It doesn't matter how much talent the kid has, it's a case of too little too late. He didn't take it seriously when it could have made a difference in his career.

no one even comes close and for the love of god no one say gsp because all he can do is takedowns and hold guys down... his stand up sucks..... any one who gets dominated by serra in the standup at 170 its pathetic

Oh noes. A fight that happend over 2 years ago still has impact on people perception of him as an elite fighter?

And all he does is hold guys down? LOLZ at that too.

Could I remind you that he outstruck your butt buddy Penn and knocked down Thiago Alves....Twice?

There is no fighter in the sport right now who has fought top competition on a more consistent basis than St. Pierre. It's not even debatable. From the moment he debuted in the UFC, he's never gotten an easy fight.

I suppose Fedor almost getting beat by fat-ass Fujita and Anderson getting subbed by Takase and Chonan aren't embarrassing losses?

And LOL @ calling Serra a bum when he arguably won his fight with Hughes, and took BJ Penn and Karo to hard fought decisions.

You don't know **** what you are spewing.

I hate Anderson Silva and I don't agree with Dana White on pretty much anything. But Anderson Silva is arugably #1 P4P because what he is doing is what P4P is. There is no really arguing it at this point.



LOLZ. Whatever you say. It doesn't matter how much talent the kid has, it's a case of too little too late. He didn't take it seriously when it could have made a difference in his career.



Oh noes. A fight that happend over 2 years ago still has impact on people perception of him as an elite fighter?

And all he does is hold guys down? LOLZ at that too.

Could I remind you that he outstruck your butt buddy Penn and knocked down Thiago Alves....Twice?

There is no fighter in the sport right now who has fought top competition on a more consistent basis than St. Pierre. It's not even debatable. From the moment he debuted in the UFC, he's never gotten an easy fight.

I suppose Fedor almost getting beat by fat-ass Fujita and Anderson getting subbed by Takase and Chonan aren't embarrassing losses?

And LOL @ calling Serra a bum when he arguably won his fight with Hughes, and took BJ Penn and Karo to hard fought decisions.

You don't know **** what you are spewing.

im not saying that hes not skilled and impressive but im saying that i think thats fedor has been more impressive throughout his carreer and hasnt looked human at all...where anderson has

I hate Anderson Silva and I don't agree with Dana White on pretty much anything. But Anderson Silva is arugably #1 P4P because what he is doing is what P4P is. There is no really arguing it at this point.



LOLZ. Whatever you say. It doesn't matter how much talent the kid has, it's a case of too little too late. He didn't take it seriously when it could have made a difference in his career.



Oh noes. A fight that happend over 2 years ago still has impact on people perception of him as an elite fighter?

And all he does is hold guys down? LOLZ at that too.

Could I remind you that he outstruck your butt buddy Penn and knocked down Thiago Alves....Twice?

There is no fighter in the sport right now who has fought top competition on a more consistent basis than St. Pierre. It's not even debatable. From the moment he debuted in the UFC, he's never gotten an easy fight.

I suppose Fedor almost getting beat by fat-ass Fujita and Anderson getting subbed by Takase and Chonan aren't embarrassing losses?

And LOL @ calling Serra a bum when he arguably won his fight with Hughes, and took BJ Penn and Karo to hard fought decisions.

You don't know **** what you are spewing.

i agree bj did it to himself with not training hard on his conditioning but i still believe that hes the most talented fighter ever

and the serra fight does have significance because since that fight he hasnt really stuck with anybody...and i didnt say he was a bum i meant that at 170 serra is a bum he was badass at 155 and gave bj all he can handle....gsp his jab was basically what was working against bj btw and he does go for takedowns in order to win the fights sherk at 170 and serra at 170 is easy fights and people saying that he greases is what makes a big thing for me.... besides thiago had a stupid gameplan trying to lead with a straight right hand when he has a distinct reach disadvantage.....and about bj being my butt buddy i wish whats wrong with admiring a guy that is so talented that through 90% percent of his career he didnt even have to train hard and was still kicking ass

and the serra fight does have significance because since that fight he hasnt really stuck with anybody...and i didnt say he was a bum i meant that at 170 serra is a bum he was badass at 155 and gave bj all he can handle....gsp his jab was basically what was working against bj btw and he does go for takedowns in order to win the fights sherk at 170 and serra at 170 is easy fights and people saying that he greases is what makes a big thing for me.... besides thiago had a stupid gameplan trying to lead with a straight right hand when he has a distinct reach disadvantage.....and about bj being my butt buddy i wish whats wrong with admiring a guy that is so talented that through 90% percent of his career he didnt even have to train hard and was still kicking ass

I don't really know if you noticed but St. Pierre has always been a ground and pound wrestler, even before the Serra fight. He took down Trigg and dominated, he took down Mayhem and dominated, he took down Sherk and dominated he took down Karo and dominated.

I don't get why people say the loss to Serra made him afraid to stand. He stood up with Thiago.

If anything the loss to Serra made him realize and stick to his roots which are wrestling and ground and pound.

Sure it might be more entertaining for the fans of he stands up and brawls, but why take the risk when his forte lies elsewhere?

I'm about tired of this greasing bull**** as well. His corner applied it unintentionally and it's over. There are plenty of people that have greased. Akiyama, Rich Franklin was caught on tape. Plenty of fighters and corners do it. It's just that this fight was on such a grand scale it was blown out of proportion.

Either way grease doesn't punch you in the face and doesn't make you a guard passing machine like St. Pierre.

I don't really know if you noticed but St. Pierre has always been a ground and pound wrestler, even before the Serra fight. He took down Trigg and dominated, he took down Mayhem and dominated, he took down Sherk and dominated he took down Karo and dominated.

I don't get why people say the loss to Serra made him afraid to stand. He stood up with Thiago.

If anything the loss to Serra made him realize and stick to his roots which are wrestling and ground and pound.

Sure it might be more entertaining for the fans of he stands up and brawls, but why take the risk when his forte lies elsewhere?

I'm about tired of this greasing bull**** as well. His corner applied it unintentionally and it's over. There are plenty of people that have greased. Akiyama, Rich Franklin was caught on tape. Plenty of fighters and corners do it. It's just that this fight was on such a grand scale it was blown out of proportion.

Either way grease doesn't punch you in the face and doesn't make you a guard passing machine like St. Pierre.

im not taking anything away from him hes a ridiculously talented fighter and there is nothing wrong with him wrestling in fights because no one can stop his takedowns i actually like to see grappling more than standup in mma im just saying that ever since that fight he realized that his standup isnt what he thought it was ...and he wasnt proven to grease even if i believe he did so i wont bring it up again btw his roots are kyokushin karate not sure how to spell it he didnt start wrestling until he began his mma career which make things even more impressive

It seems that most Canadian posters on this board are biased when it comes to GSP. Wanderlei Silva, I'm looking in your direction.

btw his roots are kyokushin karate not sure how to spell it he didnt start wrestling until he began his mma career which make things even more impressive

That's what he started with yes. But when speaking on fighting in Mixed Martial Arts his wrestling is without a doubt the strongest part of his game as it was made clear in his early days in UCC and pretty much his entire career in the UFC.

It seems that most Canadian posters on this board are biased when it comes to GSP. Wanderlei Silva, I'm looking in your direction.

I'm not Canadian......and I am a profound GSP nutswinger. So....bite me :D

I'll lay out my favorite fighters who's nuts I swing from so you know

GSP
Wand
Shogun
Overeem
Sobral
Yamamoto
Igor Vovchanchyn
Alves
Manhoef
Big Nog
Tyson Griffin
Cerrone
J-Mac

Fighters I can't stand

Anderson Silva
BJ Penn
Rampage Jackson
Chuck Liddell
Tito Ortiz
Brock Lensar
Frank Mir
Jake Shields
Paulo Filho
The Diaz Brothers

That's what he started with yes. But when speaking on fighting in Mixed Martial Arts his wrestling is without a doubt the strongest part of his game as it was made clear in his early days in UCC and pretty much his entire career in the UFC.



I'm not Canadian......and I am a profound GSP nutswinger. So....bite me :D

I'll lay out my favorite fighters who's nuts I swing from so you know

GSP
Wand
Shogun
Overeem
Sobral
Yamamoto
Igor Vovchanchyn
Alves
Manhoef
Big Nog
Tyson Griffin
Cerrone
J-Mac

Fighters I can't stand

Anderson Silva
BJ Penn
Rampage Jackson
Chuck Liddell
Tito Ortiz
Brock Lensar
Frank Mir
Jake Shields
Paulo Filho
The Diaz Brothers

o yea your right his take downs are impossible to defend its insane.........and theres nothing wrong with being a nutswinger....im practically bjs jockstrap every one says im a human condom on bj and i say it proudly

That's what he started with yes. But when speaking on fighting in Mixed Martial Arts his wrestling is without a doubt the strongest part of his game as it was made clear in his early days in UCC and pretty much his entire career in the UFC.



I'm not Canadian......and I am a profound GSP nutswinger. So....bite me :D

I'll lay out my favorite fighters who's nuts I swing from so you know

GSP
Wand
Shogun
Overeem
Sobral
Yamamoto
Igor Vovchanchyn
Alves
Manhoef
Big Nog
Tyson Griffin
Cerrone
J-Mac

Fighters I can't stand

Anderson Silva
BJ Penn
Rampage Jackson
Chuck Liddell
Tito Ortiz
Brock Lensar
Frank Mir
Jake Shields
Paulo Filho
The Diaz Brothers
My bad I thought you were Canadian, not exactly sure why. Maybe a case of mistaken identity.

That's what he started with yes. But when speaking on fighting in Mixed Martial Arts his wrestling is without a doubt the strongest part of his game as it was made clear in his early days in UCC and pretty much his entire career in the UFC.



I'm not Canadian......and I am a profound GSP nutswinger. So....bite me :D

I'll lay out my favorite fighters who's nuts I swing from so you know

GSP
Wand
Shogun
Overeem
Sobral
Yamamoto
Igor Vovchanchyn
Alves
Manhoef
Big Nog
Tyson Griffin
Cerrone
J-Mac

Fighters I can't stand

Anderson Silva
BJ Penn
Rampage Jackson
Chuck Liddell
Tito Ortiz
Brock Lensar
Frank Mir
Jake Shields
Paulo Filho
The Diaz Brothers
Who would you have in a potential Carwin-Lesnar matchup?

Who would you have in a potential Carwin-Lesnar matchup?

Lesnar, unfortunately. I see him taking down or more or less tackling him and pretty much grinding out a decision or getting a TKO.

Shane has big power and his wrestling is probably just as good as Lesnar's however, Carwin seems way too tentative and stiff to me.

Brock is a lot more agile and fluid.

But Carwin has that one hitter quitter and if it lands on Brock that's the fight.

So I'm hoping Carwin by KO but I see Brock by smotherage

Lesnar, unfortunately. I see him taking down or more or less tackling him and pretty much grinding out a decision or getting a TKO.

Shane has big power and his wrestling is probably just as good as Lesnar's however, Carwin seems way too tentative and stiff to me.

Brock is a lot more agile and fluid.

But Carwin has that one hitter quitter and if it lands on Brock that's the fight.

So I'm hoping Carwin by KO but I see Brock by smotherage

It's an interesting fight, but I see Carwin's superior stand-up being the key difference. Carwin was both a national champ in wrestling, and a 2x all-American in both football and wrestling. He is also the only man in the UFC who can size up to Brock.

I can't see Brock steamrolling this guy, and I can't see Brock hanging in the stand-up. I think Carwin kayos Brock in the first round, like he's done to everyone else.

It's an interesting fight, but I see Carwin's superior stand-up being the key difference. Carwin was both a national champ in wrestling, and a 2x all-American in both football and wrestling. He is also the only man in the UFC who can size up to Brock.

I can't see Brock steamrolling this guy, and I can't see Brock hanging in the stand-up. I think Carwin kayos Brock in the first round, like he's done to everyone else.

I wouldn't call Carwin's stand-up superior. He was getting tuned up by Gonzaga, because as I said he's very stiff and tight in the stand-up.

But I hope you are right. I'd love to see Brock unconscious after a big bomb from Carwin :)

Mike Brown above BJ is disgraceful..****in Shertard

I agree with the top 4...

I agree with the top 4...

That's the right thing to do.

That's what he started with yes. But when speaking on fighting in Mixed Martial Arts his wrestling is without a doubt the strongest part of his game as it was made clear in his early days in UCC and pretty much his entire career in the UFC.



I'm not Canadian......and I am a profound GSP nutswinger. So....bite me :D

I'll lay out my favorite fighters who's nuts I swing from so you know

GSP
Wand
Shogun
Overeem
Sobral
Yamamoto
Igor Vovchanchyn
Alves
Manhoef
Big Nog
Tyson Griffin
Cerrone
J-Mac

Fighters I can't stand

Anderson Silva
BJ Penn
Rampage Jackson
Chuck Liddell
Tito Ortiz
Brock Lensar
Frank Mir
Jake Shields
Paulo Filho
The Diaz Brothers

You brought very good lists of fighters, Manhoef would be good opposition for Silva stand-up skill-wise also holding real power in his punches and kicks.

Basically considering p4p, the 4 UFC Champions and Fedor are the guys you need to beat to get respect in my p4p top-5.

A. Silva hasn't convinced me as the p4p #1 until he has beaten a legit heavyweight. Until then I'd give the #1 spot to Fedor, who has beaten all comers when weighing around 230 pounds without any cutting, the same weight as Silva between his fights.

Pound-for-pound, he is not better than the four fighters ranked ahead of him. He has holes in his game that have yet to be tested/corrected because ZUFFA, LLC. matchmaking isn't going to expose him to the challenges of a stylistic challenge to his faux supremacy. E.G. In LHW, they fed him James Irvin (lol) and Forrest Griffin, who didn't insomuch as attempt to take him down, and stood/banged with him. Absurd. Watch Lutter, Chonan, and Takase fights.

E

What makes you think that A. Silva struggling against an opponent would diminish his p4p status?

Has Fedor ever struggled with his opponents? Yes, many times, winning these fights fair and square. The only other guy I'd give a chance to survive the Randleman-slam is Big Nog, and he proved that by surviving Sapp's pile-driver.

Read the article behind the link of my first sig, both of these situations are top 'Oh ****!' MMA-material. And yes, you will have to copy-paste the link to your browser's address line.

I hope that Vitor Belfort has really got his **** together and performs like his former self ten years ago. A game Belfort would be the fighter I'd like to see against Silva defending his MW belt.

this list is **** i my opinion