I don't! but out of interest do any of you guys feel he gets overrated? explain why!:boxing:

He's not overrated at all IMO. Obviously he's beatable, but who isn't? He truley is great and deserves all the credit he gets.

I think perhaps on other forums you may see comments like that, but I haven't seen much of that on here (granted I haven't been a member long).

He's my favorite athlete of all time, and definitely do not think he's overrated. I think logically it would be difficult to argue otherwise.

I don't! but out of interest do any of you guys feel he gets overrated? explain why!:boxing:

Name another athlete who is beloved around the world? Who stood up against a system that tried to destroy him? He deserves every accolade given to him and more

Name another athlete who is beloved around the world? Who stood up against a system that tried to destroy him? He deserves every accolade given to him and more

but everything you mentioned was done outside the ring. am talking about his in ring accomplishments!

but everything you mentioned was done outside the ring. am talking about his in ring accomplishments!

He ruled the heavyweight division at a time when there was the most heavily talented division in history. He ko'd two of the most vicious heavies in history; Liston and Foreman. He defeated Frazier in one of the most brutal heavyweight title fights in history. He is no less than the second greatest heavyweight of all time.

I can't give you an honest answer because Ali is my favorite fighter of all times.
How do you guys think he would do against fighters from other eras, let's say prime Ali versus the top notch heavies from the '30's 40's 50's 90's 00's?

I can't give you an honest answer because Ali is my favorite fighter of all times.
How do you guys think he would do against fighters from other eras, let's say prime Ali versus the top notch heavies from the '30's 40's 50's 90's 00's?

I see him handling competition from any era, including the Klitschkos, Joe Louis, Marciano, Tyson and anyone else you want to throw out there.

I'm not saying he wouldn't have a tough time or even lose a decision to someone, but a Prime Ali could beat pretty much all eras.

There is no wrong or right answer.Which is the same cast to every accusation of someone/thing being overrated.Everyone knows who Muhammad Ali is,Even the young generation today know of him.

To those who don't follow boxing and it's history,Their response to a questions such as "Who is the greatest boxer of all time?" would very likely be a Muhammad Ali,Rocky Marciano or a Mike Tyson.Simply because there are arguably three of the biggest names in boxing history.

Those who say ali are most likely not aware of ali's credential's or any flaws he may have had in the ring and simply have said his name because he is Ali,In that sense it could be argued that he is overrated.

Ali as much as he is loved is also hated,Many of whom are more than willing to broaden their criticisms beyond that of a boxing ring.Draft dodger,racist,arrogant ect,Any hard fought close decision that may have went his way was an obvious robbery,His greatest wins and performances tainted with wild,unfounded accusations of so and so was drugged,threw the fight ect,In that sense it could be argued that he is underrated

So as you can see,The greatest irony is that the term overrated/underrated to whom/whatever it applies to,Actually has very little to do with that of which it is debated but more rather to the debaters themselves


There is no wrong or right answer.

There is no wrong or right answer.Which is the same cast to every accusation of someone/thing being overrated.Everyone knows who Muhammad Ali is,Even the young generation today know of him.

To those who don't follow boxing and it's history,Their response to a questions such as "Who is the greatest boxer of all time?" would very likely be a Muhammad Ali,Rocky Marciano or a Mike Tyson.Simply because there are arguably three of the biggest names in boxing history.

Those who say ali are most likely not aware of ali's credential's or any flaws he may have had in the ring and simply have said his name because he is Ali,In that sense it could be argued that he is overrated.

Ali as much as he is loved is also hated,Many of whom are more than willing to broaden their criticisms beyond that of a boxing ring.Draft dodger,racist,arrogant ect,Any hard fought close decision that may have went his way was an obvious robbery,His greatest wins and performances tainted with wild,unfounded accusations of so and so was drugged,threw the fight ect,In that sense it could be argued that he is underrated

So as you can see,The greatest irony is that the term overrated/underrated to whom/whatever it applies to,Actually has very little to do with that of which it is debated but more rather to the debaters themselves


There is no wrong or right answer.

why dont you show some respect to joe frazer? man was a hell of a fighter, and fought blind in one eye!

Ok,He was a very good fighter.A certain top 10 heavyweight.Did I ever deny this?

Ok,He was a very good fighter.A certain top 10 heavyweight.Did I ever deny this?

what you always bad mouth him! i've heard you call him a quitter dont act innocent retard!

what you always bad mouth him! i've heard you call him a quitter dont act innocent retard!

Joe Frazier was a great fighter. He was the third best heavy of his era(Ali and Foreman being 1 and 2). It is hard to find a fighter that had more heart than Frazier. It was not Frazier but Eddie Futch who stopped the fight in Manila. Joe Frazier was a true warrior and a credit to the sport of boxing

Joe Frazier was a great fighter. He was the third best heavy of his era(Ali and Foreman being 1 and 2). It is hard to find a fighter that had more heart than Frazier. It was not Frazier but Eddie Futch who stopped the fight in Manila. Joe Frazier was a true warrior and a credit to the sport of boxing

Amen! And for the record it was a good stoppage on Futch's part: Frazier was a blind fighter at that point and had been sponging punches the prior three rounds. Trainer's are paid to take care of their fighter's welfare, whether the fighter wants to continue or not. The trainer has to be the cool head of reason that overrules the fighter's hot heart. Futch did what he should have done.

Poet

Absolutely not. But I do think that bumbeater Joe Louis is highly overrated.

I don't think he's overrated at all.

I think Ali's dominance is overrated. but his fights are deceiving...sometimes, you would think 'wow, Ali is actually on equal terms with this guy...' and then bam, they go down on a brilliant shot. or after 4 rounds are over, their face is a mess and they are exhausted.

its almost surprising...its jsut that Ali does so many subtle things while fighting, and his punches cause an above average amounts of cuts/bruises. the way he used his defence...while not perfect...was effective, because flat out missing the target uses up more stamina than get your punched blocked.

plus, hes one of the best ever, regardless of weight class, of lulling fighters to sleep.

he rarely had 'perfect' fights, but the guys record and performances speak for themselves.

simply put...it wasnt that hard to win a round against Ali. but it was nearly impossible to win the fight.

Absolutely not. But I do think that bumbeater Joe Louis is highly overrated.

reasons???????

St Lion still doesn't understand the meaning of the term overrated


sigh


I don't think he's overrated at all.

Such a compelling and well thought out post,Please make more

I don't want to say he's actually overrated because to me he's still the #1 or #2 heavy weight of all time, But, his style was very friendly to boxing Afficianados.

Self proclaimed (deserved and otherwise) like outside fighters who circle and move away stick and move. The view is these fighters are the skilled ones where as in fighters or power fighters are just maulers.

The honest truth is all 3 styles are basically just maximizing the fighter's physical talents and minimizing their lackings.

I don't want to say he's actually overrated because to me he's still the #1 or #2 heavy weight of all time, But, his style was very friendly to boxing Afficianados.

Self proclaimed (deserved and otherwise) like outside fighters who circle and move away stick and move. The view is these fighters are the skilled ones where as in fighters or power fighters are just maulers.

The honest truth is all 3 styles are basically just maximizing the fighter's physical talents and minimizing their lackings.

if you think he is No1 or No2 All time, ... who is your No1, No2?

Not at all. Dude was the man in his day.

Amen! And for the record it was a good stoppage on Futch's part: Frazier was a blind fighter at that point and had been sponging punches the prior three rounds. Trainer's are paid to take care of their fighter's welfare, whether the fighter wants to continue or not. The trainer has to be the cool head of reason that overrules the fighter's hot heart. Futch did what he should have done.

Poet

absolutely a good stoppage on futch's part, Joe was taking a vicious beating and as you mentioned was blind at that point. But as a fighter, i can understand Joe's reaction to the stoppage (never speaking to futch again), i'd probably flip out if my trainer stopped a fight too

It is a myth that Frazier never spoke to Futch again.Honestly are so many of you this naive?

what you always bad mouth him! i've heard you call him a quitter dont act innocent retard!

Oh,Did frazier come out for the 15th round?

I would never say he's overrated. Ali was undisputed king of the toughest era of heavyweights ever. Ali would translate to any era, he wasn't small and his speed and reflexes would carry to any time period. Other heavyweights like Marciano simply couldn't do it because they would be too small but Ali was 6'3 220, and in shape so he could easily transport to the current division and own everyone.

if you think he is No1 or No2 All time, ... who is your No1, No2?

I always put Joe Louis up there with Ali. Usually Ali as #1 because he did it in two careers basically, and in the second one had much stiffer competition.
Louis gets up there due to the ridiculousness of his title run, I realize he was boxing the bum of the month club but still the amount of time he dominated the heavyweight division is freakish.

If Ali hadn't come back post Vietnam and beaten guys like Frazier Foreman Norton et al. I would rate him #2 behind Louis, but the fact that he was able to beat these other all time greats is usually why I rate him #1.

So I guess my point is he does manage to be #1 and slightly overrated because I don't feel the gap between him and the other guys is as monstrous as others like to make it seem.

Was Ali overrated?

Well,he was picked as "The Athlete of the Century" by sports Illustrated and the USA Today.He was picked 2nd by the AP,and 4th by ESPN.

He was selected by his acomplishments "In the Ring" just as all the other athletes were selected.

By this I would say he was overrated.But being picked as the #1 Heavyweight Champion by 90% of boxing writers,fans,trainers etc. I would not say he is overrated.

He is also selected in the top 5 pfp by most boxing writers,trainers,fight fans,experts, etc etc

It's amazing he could come back from a 3 1/2 year lay-off and win back the Heavyweight Championship of the World. Beat Joe Frazier 2 out of 3,KO the invincible,unbeatable Big George Forman.

It's also amazing with only 19 pro fights he could easily beat the menacing,invincible,unbeatable Sonny Liston.

And we never saw him during his best years! During his 3 1/2 year lay-off.

So no,he is not overrated.....He is,in his own words The Greatest.

He would of lost to Foreman the second time.

He would of lost to Foreman the second time.

Muhammad Ali KO'd George Forman when he was 7 years past his prime!

So you believe George would have beaten Ali when 8 years past his prime?

Maybe,maybe not.......

Either way,Ali was not overrated was he?

Was ali considered the greatest or was there a talk about him being one BEFORE he self-proclaimed himself as the greatest?

Depends who's rating him. People who say Ali was the GOAT are definitely over rating him. Ali calling himself the greatest played a big part in this brain washing. The people who rate Joe Frazier a top 5 Heavyweight and Ken Norton a top 15 Heavyweight are the biggest Ali huggers alive. It's as if to them the man couldn't get his ass beat unless the other guy was also one of the very greatest.

Ali doesn't even make my top 10 p4p, although I do rate him #2 Heavyweight.

As for Ali being a great man outside the ring, I'd like to know compared to who? Compared to a nobody, sure. Compared to Malcolm X? He couldn't hold Malcolm's jockstrap. And when he turned his back on Malcolm can not be over looked. Not saying he did it because he was a bad person, but it does imply he wasn't a very bright one. He was easily influenced and manipulated. The speeches he made on race and America, which apparently inspired millions, most likely aren't even his.

he is surely not overrated, he changed the world with his critics against the war for example, he was also a great box champion

Depends who's rating him. People who say Ali was the GOAT are definitely over rating him. Ali calling himself the greatest played a big part in this brain washing. The people who rate Joe Frazier a top 5 Heavyweight and Ken Norton a top 15 Heavyweight are the biggest Ali huggers alive. It's as if to them the man couldn't get his ass beat unless the other guy was also one of the very greatest.

Ali doesn't even make my top 10 p4p, although I do rate him #2 Heavyweight.

As for Ali being a great man outside the ring, I'd like to know compared to who? Compared to a nobody, sure. Compared to Malcolm X? He couldn't hold Malcolm's jockstrap. And when he turned his back on Malcolm can not be over looked. Not saying he did it because he was a bad person, but it does imply he wasn't a very bright one. He was easily influenced and manipulated. The speeches he made on race and America, which apparently inspired millions, most likely aren't even his.

I remember a time when Ali was going on and on that he was the GOAT,and the reporter asked what about SRR? Ali said: " I never said I was the greatest pfp,I said I was the greatest fighter of all-times"

So even you would have to say Ali was the 2nd greastest fighter of all-times!

Is Ali overated? well i'll answer your question with a question of my own:

3 and a half years of NO prime years
Norton (3 times)
Lyle
Foreman (undefeated)
Frazier (3 times)
Patterson (2 times)
Shavers (one of the hardest punchers of all time)
Young
Foster
Quarry (2 times)
George Chuvalo (2 times)
Bonavena
Liston (2 times)
Cooper ( 2 times)
Wepner
Williams
Terrell
Spinks x2

do u think he's overated now?

I remember a time when Ali was going on and on that he was the GOAT,and the reporter asked what about SRR? Ali said: " I never said I was the greatest pfp,I said I was the greatest fighter of all-times"



Ali was being modest just like most others who claim Ray Robinson was the greatest.Ray Robinson ducked and avoided far too many legitimate opponents to be as ranked as highly as he is.


do u think he's overated now?


You people still don't understand the concept of the term "overrated".I thought obama was the biggest dunce on this board

I'm now reconsidering my original accusations

double post

Absolutely not. But I do think that bumbeater Joe Louis is highly overrated.
zzzzzzzzzzzz

He would of lost to Foreman the second time.
Well he was meant to lose to him the 1st time too so you can't really say that with any certainty

I consider ALI to be overrated.

Dont get me wrong he is a great and definatley a top 5 h/w atg, but the G.O.A.T no way.

Ali has been elivated to god-like status by the public and i guess its good for boxing.

But not to forget he almost got iced by light heavyweight journeman Henry Cooper

He also almost got took the distance by Chuck Bloody Wepner!

Still on his day he was awesome but no doubt he had a few off days.

Also the general public overrate his power a LOT

I consider ALI to be overrated.

Dont get me wrong he is a great and definatley a top 5 h/w atg, but the G.O.A.T no way.

Ali has been elivated to god-like status by the public and i guess its good for boxing.

But not to forget he almost got iced by light heavyweight journeman Henry Cooper

He also almost got took the distance by Chuck Bloody Wepner!

Still on his day he was awesome but no doubt he had a few off days.

Also the general public overrate his power a LOT

Ali was 21 years old, and Cooper was not a journeyman!!!! he was european champ and british champ at the time he fought ali and quite a good fighter

quite far past his prime, and he stopped wepner

Too much is made of Ali getting hurt by cooper, cooper was more experienced and a decent fighter, plus ali came back and stopped him!!!!



almost getting getting iced at 21 years of age like ali did is much better than getting knocked the **** out 2 times in your prime, once by a crackhead!!!!

Henry cooper was a journeyman, and alli stopped him on cuts.

Henry cooper was a journeyman, and alli stopped him on cuts.


He was a guy he took too lightly.

Im sure you can understand where im coming from with the above comment being that your a Lewis fan.

As for Chuck Wepner, he nearly went the distance with Ali? all that proves is that Ali was not a power puncher, he hit Wepner with literally everything!!!! and Wepner walked through most of it. Does not make it a poor win because it took him longer, he just was not a big hitter.

He was a guy he took too lightly.

Im sure you can understand where im coming from with the above comment being that your a Lewis fan.

As for Chuck Wepner, he nearly went the distance with Ali? all that proves is that Ali was not a power puncher, he hit Wepner with literally everything!!!! and Wepner walked through most of it. Does not make it a poor win because it took him longer, he just was not a big hitter.

To be fair to Ali, Wepner had an amazing chin. I'm actually impressed that Ali did stop him, and not on cuts, although it was mostly due to Wepner being tired and having taken an accumulation of punishment. I believe that was the first time Wepner was stopped on a TKO not related on cuts.

Cooper was not really a journeyman. He would have been more suited into the LHW division in my opinion but his power made him a threat even at heavyweight.

By all rights Clay may not have deserved to beat Cooper the first time. Angelo cheated for him. Can't even be sure Angelo did it without Ali asking him. Ali did after all ask for his gloves to be cut off in the 3rd Frazier fight. Yes I realize the forms of cutting are different, but maybe Ali wanted to quit in the Cooper fight too and Angelo compromised to make it look like a glove malfunction in order to buy the kid enough time to change his mind.

By all rights Clay may not have deserved to beat Cooper the first time. Angelo cheated for him. Can't even be sure Angelo did it without Ali asking him. Ali did after all ask for his gloves to be cut off in the 3rd Frazier fight. Yes I realize the forms of cutting are different, but maybe Ali wanted to quit in the Cooper fight too and Angelo compromised to make it look like a glove malfunction in order to buy the kid enough time to change his mind.

Ali never wanted to quit, and was not a quitter, and never actually quit. That's all a bunch of nonsense from his dislikers. You have a lot of nerve making these claims while you sport an avatar with a cowardly quitter like that.

Ali was overated. That's been my opinion for some time now. Especially in the 70's. He did beat Foreman in Zaire and Frazier in Manila, but that's it. He lost a lot of fights that he got by crooked decisions. The third Norton fight and the Jimmy Young fight in particular. And I think the decision in the Shavers fight also was kinda disputed.

Ali never wanted to quit, and was not a quitter, and never actually quit. That's all a bunch of nonsense from his dislikers. You have a lot of nerve making these claims while you sport an avatar with a cowardly quitter like that.

Wait, Robinson is a cowardly quitter for fainting in the Maxim fight?

As for Ali, the people who were around his corner claim he was going to quit in the third Frazier fight. I'm inclined to believe them.

By all rights Clay may not have deserved to beat Cooper the first time. Angelo cheated for him. Can't even be sure Angelo did it without Ali asking him. Ali did after all ask for his gloves to be cut off in the 3rd Frazier fight. Yes I realize the forms of cutting are different, but maybe Ali wanted to quit in the Cooper fight too and Angelo compromised to make it look like a glove malfunction in order to buy the kid enough time to change his mind.

Ali asked Dundee to cut his gloves off after Liston blinded him with an illegal substance in their first fight. I believe that was more out of paranoia than fear, as he was easily winning the fight up until that point.

Ali was overated. That's been my opinion for some time now. Especially in the 70's. He did beat Foreman in Zaire and Frazier in Manila, but that's it. He lost a lot of fights that he got by crooked decisions. The third Norton fight and the Jimmy Young fight in particular. And I think the decision in the Shavers fight also was kinda disputed.

NBC was giving the actual official scoring of the judges during their broadcast. Ali had someone in the dressing room watching the fight and relayed the scores to Dundee. After 12 rounds, Ali knew he had the fight as long as he stayed on his feet. Even so, he almost knocked Shavers out in the 15th round.

Wait, Robinson is a cowardly quitter for fainting in the Maxim fight?

As for Ali, the people who were around his corner claim he was going to quit in the third Frazier fight. I'm inclined to believe them.

You are right about Robinson. It was the 100 degree heat that ko'd him, as he was pitching a near shutout at the time. It also ko'd the first referee of the fight

To be fair to Ali, Wepner had an amazing chin. I'm actually impressed that Ali did stop him, and not on cuts, although it was mostly due to Wepner being tired and having taken an accumulation of punishment. I believe that was the first time Wepner was stopped on a TKO not related on cuts.

Cooper was not really a journeyman. He would have been more suited into the LHW division in my opinion but his power made him a threat even at heavyweight.


So was i, because Wepner walked through a hail storm of punches throughout that fight. The only bad thing for Ali about that fight was the fact he got dropped with a body shot, but! i think his feet were too close and that he was caught more off balance than hurt, although he did not complain.

So was i, because Wepner walked through a hail storm of punches throughout that fight. The only bad thing for Ali about that fight was the fact he got dropped with a body shot, but! i think his feet were too close and that he was caught more off balance than hurt, although he did not complain.

Wepner actually stepped on Ali's feet while throwing the punch. He learned this trick from Sonny Liston who did the same thing to him in their fight, scoring a knockdown.

http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:711PUkq67CgHnM:http://www.mondoboxe.com/foto/albums/album06/Al_vs_Wepner.sized.jpg

So was i, because Wepner walked through a hail storm of punches throughout that fight. The only bad thing for Ali about that fight was the fact he got dropped with a body shot, but! i think his feet were too close and that he was caught more off balance than hurt, although he did not complain.

Not taking anything away from Wepner, but everyone knew that knockdown was BS. He was already falling down before the punch even landed. Not sure why Ali didn't protest more.

It was awesome how he laid it on after that though.

By all rights Clay may not have deserved to beat Cooper the first time. Angelo cheated for him. Can't even be sure Angelo did it without Ali asking him. Ali did after all ask for his gloves to be cut off in the 3rd Frazier fight. Yes I realize the forms of cutting are different, but maybe Ali wanted to quit in the Cooper fight too and Angelo compromised to make it look like a glove malfunction in order to buy the kid enough time to change his mind.


Ugh,Dunce say,what should we do? The cut glove story is an overblown myth debunked by british boxing journalism and virtually every other source that concerns the fight itself.As for the ali asking for his gloves to be cut it is also pure speculation,Fraziers pitying corner are not a source.

I've said it time and time again,There is more evidence to suggest frazier quit in the third fight than it Ali did.As for quitting I do recall your false hero quitting in the maxim fight despite clearly winning,Not much speculation there,He quit in his corner.I wonder how highly the p4p rankings judge heart?

But of course myths,lies and half truth bull**** stories obviously fit your criteria on understanding boxing history doesn't it Dunce?

Wepner actually stepped on Ali's feet while throwing the punch. He learned this trick from Sonny Liston who did the same thing to him in their fight, scoring a knockdown.

http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:711PUkq67CgHnM:http://www.mondoboxe.com/foto/albums/album06/Al_vs_Wepner.sized.jpg

Not taking anything away from Wepner, but everyone knew that knockdown was BS. He was already falling down before the punch even landed. Not sure why Ali didn't protest more.

It was awesome how he laid it on after that though.


I never knew that Machine.

They did not show that in the replay, i was trying to workout what actually happened in the replay but it was not very conclusive, i did notice how close together his feet were when he fell though. That pic clears up a lot.

Agree, when i watched it in real time i thought that KD looked iffy and then when i saw the replay i thought to myself why didn't Ali complain.

Wait, Robinson is a cowardly quitter for fainting in the Maxim fight?

As for Ali, the people who were around his corner claim he was going to quit in the third Frazier fight. I'm inclined to believe them.

Maxim was in the ring as well and he did not QUIT. You can try to make every kind of excuse you want, I've gone over this many time. The fact is he QUIT and Ali never did.

And Angelo Dundee will be the first one to tell you Ali was not going to quit in the 15th round. You're talking a lot of crap mate, because you're jealous that ALI is known as the greatest and not your lad Salty GAY Robinson.

Maxim was in the ring as well and he did not QUIT. You can try to make every kind of excuse you want, I've gone over this many time. The fact is he QUIT and Ali never did.

And Angelo Dundee will be the first one to tell you Ali was not going to quit in the 15th round. You're talking a lot of crap mate, because you're jealous that ALI is known as the greatest and not your lad Salty GAY Robinson.

Don't worry,It's just an attempt by robinson nuthuggers to try and discredit Joey Maxim's heart and courage.Something robinson failed to show when he needed it most.


Ali asked Dundee to cut his gloves off after Liston blinded him with an illegal substance in their first fight.

There's not actual proof liston and his camp intentionally blinded ali.No matter what Burt Sugar says

Maxim was in the ring as well and he did not QUIT. You can try to make every kind of excuse you want, I've gone over this many time. The fact is he QUIT and Ali never did.

And Angelo Dundee will be the first one to tell you Ali was not going to quit in the 15th round. You're talking a lot of crap mate, because you're jealous that ALI is known as the greatest and not your lad Salty GAY Robinson.

Angelo will also be the first to tell you that a young Cassius Clay wanted to quit after the fourth round against Liston but he convinced Ali to continue and try to survive the round.

I bet if Robinson was retired in his corner like Ali was against Holmes you'd be calling him a quitter too due to your bias, but Robinson fought in his mid 40's while a shadow of what he used to be and was never stopped.

I proved to you what his condition was against Maxim (doctors, boxing experts, ringside viewers, former fighters and officials all agreed that he was in no condition to fight on) but I see my arguments have fallen into deaf ears.

Ugh,Dunce say,what should we do? The cut glove story is an overblown myth debunked by british boxing journalism and virtually every other source that concerns the fight itself.As for the ali asking for his gloves to be cut it is also pure speculation,Fraziers pitying corner are not a source.

I've said it time and time again,There is more evidence to suggest frazier quit in the third fight than it Ali did.As for quitting I do recall your false hero quitting in the maxim fight despite clearly winning,Not much speculation there,He quit in his corner.I wonder how highly the p4p rankings judge heart?

But of course myths,lies and half truth bull**** stories obviously fit your criteria on understanding boxing history doesn't it Dunce?

It's a myth that Dundee openly admits? And he's admitted it on shows having nothing to do with HBO, so don't start.

I'm not going by Frazier's corner, I'm going by the people around Ali's corner.

As for the last bit, :nonono:

Maxim was in the ring as well and he did not QUIT. You can try to make every kind of excuse you want, I've gone over this many time. The fact is he QUIT and Ali never did.

And Angelo Dundee will be the first one to tell you Ali was not going to quit in the 15th round. You're talking a lot of crap mate, because you're jealous that ALI is known as the greatest and not your lad Salty GAY Robinson.

:nonono:

Don't worry,It's just an attempt by robinson nuthuggers to try and discredit Joey Maxim's heart and courage.Something robinson failed to show when he needed it most.


Oh sure, Robinson never showed courage in any fight. Robinson was suffering from serious dehydration and could have very well ended up being yet another Gerald McClellan, Michael Watson, Akeem Anifowoshe. I bet you would call them quitters too had they been retired in their corner as they should have been.

Angelo will also be the first to tell you that a young Cassius Clay wanted to quit after the fourth round against Liston but he convinced Ali to continue and try to survive the round.

I bet if Robinson was retired in his corner like Ali was against Holmes you'd be calling him a quitter too due to your bias, but Robinson fought in his mid 40's while a shadow of what he used to be and was never stopped.

I proved to you what his condition was against Maxim (doctors, boxing experts, ringside viewers, former fighters and officials all agreed that he was in no condition to fight on) but I see my arguments have fallen into deaf ears.

Don't try to change the subject you moron. Angelo Dundee was asked specifically if Ali was going to quit before the 15th round. And he said NO, Ali was going to continue. That's what this is about and you're just changing the subject to ignore this fact and ramble on about a whole lot of bollocks like you always do.

And I knew you would bring up drugged up Ali who was suffering from Parkinsons being battered by a top 10 ATG HW and his CORNER stopping the fight. That just shows what type of lad you are, just a classless piece of ****.

You didn't prove nothing mate. Robinson was still a live fighter, won some rounds too but when Maxim turned up the heat on him, Salty GAY Robinson saw that he was going to be KO'd for the first time. So like the coward he was, he quit and acted like he couldn't continue.

You ran away with your tail between your cunt last time in the thunderdome. It's best if you keep your classless mouth shut mate.

I find it interesting that the guy calling the other classless is the one making all the petty insults.

By all rights Clay may not have deserved to beat Cooper the first time. Angelo cheated for him. Can't even be sure Angelo did it without Ali asking him. Ali did after all ask for his gloves to be cut off in the 3rd Frazier fight. Yes I realize the forms of cutting are different, but maybe Ali wanted to quit in the Cooper fight too and Angelo compromised to make it look like a glove malfunction in order to buy the kid enough time to change his mind.

The Cassius Clay of 1963 was far from the Prime Muhammad Ali of 1967.If you want to look at "pre prime" Joe Louis got KO'd for the 10 count.

Yes,Ali "THOUGHT" about quitting after the 10th round in the Trilla' in Manilla.But he got himself back into the fight in the 11th and 12th rounds.

muhammad ali overrated-best joke ive heard all day:slap:

The Cassius Clay of 1963 was far from the Prime Muhammad Ali of 1967.If you want to look at "pre prime" Joe Louis got KO'd for the 10 count.

Yes,Ali "THOUGHT" about quitting after the 10th round in the Trilla' in Manilla.But he got himself back into the fight in the 11th and 12th rounds.

First paragraph, what does that have to do with anything?

Second paragraph, it was after the 14th round that people around Ali's corner got the impression he didn't want to continue.

I consider ALI to be overrated.

Dont get me wrong he is a great and definatley a top 5 h/w atg, but the G.O.A.T no way.

Ali has been elivated to god-like status by the public and i guess its good for boxing.

But not to forget he almost got iced by light heavyweight journeman Henry Cooper

He also almost got took the distance by Chuck Bloody Wepner!

Still on his day he was awesome but no doubt he had a few off days.

Also the general public overrate his power a LOT

The Cassius Clay of 1963 who fought Cooper was not near the Prime Muhammad Ali of 1967.

I watched Ali train for Wepner.Do you really think he trained hard? You don't think he took him lightly?

After Ali's 3 1/2 year lay-off he no longer trained hard for every fight like he did in the 1960's.Angelo Dundee said that Ali came into a fight in the condition that he thought would win him the fight.

Don't try to change the subject you moron. Angelo Dundee was asked specifically if Ali was going to quit before the 15th round. And he said NO, Ali was going to continue. That's what this is about and you're just changing the subject to ignore this fact and ramble on about a whole lot of bollocks like you always do.

You were saying that Ali never wanted to quit. That's why I brought it up, to counter your original argument.

I personally don't think that Ali wanted to quit in the Thrilla in Manila, but he stated immediately after the fight that he had his doubts after the 10th round when Frazier kept coming.

And I knew you would bring up drugged up Ali who was suffering from Parkinsons being battered by a top 10 ATG HW and his CORNER stopping the fight. That just shows what type of lad you are, just a classless piece of ****.

You didn't prove nothing mate. Robinson was still a live fighter, won some rounds too but when Maxim turned up the heat on him, Salty GAY Robinson saw that he was going to be KO'd for the first time. So like the coward he was, he quit and acted like he couldn't continue.

You ran away with your tail between your cunt last time in the thunderdome. It's best if you keep your classless mouth shut mate.

I brought it up, because it's equally classless as you saying that Robinson quit against Maxim, insulting him for it (while I never would about Ali), when he was risking serious injury by continuing to fight severely dehydrated (a fact stated by ring doctors who examined him after the bout). As a boxing fan you should know how dangerous that is, the brain becomes more vulnerable when there is no cushion of fluid to protect it. This is what lead to most ring tragedies, for example McClellan, Watson and Anifowoshe as I stated eaerlier.

As for the last part, actually I responded to your arguments, didn't hear from you in days and didn't check back again. Perhaps you responded with something but I didn't get to see it.

Ali was overated. That's been my opinion for some time now. Especially in the 70's. He did beat Foreman in Zaire and Frazier in Manila, but that's it. He lost a lot of fights that he got by crooked decisions. The third Norton fight and the Jimmy Young fight in particular. And I think the decision in the Shavers fight also was kinda disputed.

Muhammad Ali in the 70's after a 3 1/2 year lay-off,was not the same Prime Ali before the lay-off in 1967.

Ali beat Frazier and Forman when 7 and 8 years past his prime!

Ali left a piece of himself in the ring in the Trilla' in Manilla,and was never the same.The next year(1976) he slipped badly losing to Jimmy Young and later in the year to Ken Norton.He was 9 years past his prime of 1967 for crying out loud!! He was 10 years past his prime when beating Shavers!

NOBODY claims the Ali of the 70's was better than the Prime Ali of 1967.

You are right about Robinson. It was the 100 degree heat that ko'd him, as he was pitching a near shutout at the time. It also ko'd the first referee of the fight

It was 110 degrees in Manilla,with wicked humitity!

And it was a brutal fight,fought at a very fast pace.

In his book Frazier said it felt like he was in a pizza oven!

Oh,there was no air conditioning.

"If he does not restore his fluid loss and enters the ring dehydrated, he may be courting the same disaster that ended the last big money-making light heavyweight championship in New York. It happened three years ago this week, when Sugar Ray Robinson fought Joey Maxim.

Dr. Ira McCown of the State Athletic Commission recalls, "The temperature that day was 94�. The humidity was 90%. That evening was so still and quiet you couldn't even see the flags waving in the breeze—because there was no breeze.

"We had a mass of 45,000 spectators on hand, which increased the heat. At ringside we also had an added factor of about 100 klieg lights overhead. That brought the temperature—it was proven—to 103� at the edge of the ring. Under the lights, we feel undoubtedly, it was nearer 130."

All day long Robinson had taken no fluids. He tried to sleep, but couldn't. He got up about 8 o'clock and Dr. Vincent Nardiello tried to give him something to drink. "I wanted to give him a big glass of lemonade with plenty of sugar. I finally gave him iced tea with plenty of sugar, but he refused to take it. 'Doctor,' he said, 'I've been fighting for 14 years. I never took any fluids before a fight.'

"I said, 'Son, this is a tough night. This is a real hot night. You have got to have fluids.' He didn't take a thing, and that's what licked him. He was absolutely dehydrated."

Robinson set a very fast pace, but he was already well dried out. Moreover, the humidity was so high that whatever more he sweated didn't evaporate to keep him cool.

"The first symptom that we noticed," Dr. McCown remembers, "was about the fourth round—and, mark you, the managers and trainers at ringside said, 'Oh Doc, he's in fine shape. Do you see how he is feinting Maxim for the kill?' Robinson was running around the ropes. I think it was the fifth he went to the wrong corner—well, he went the wrong way, but in the 11th he absolutely went to the wrong corner.

"At the 11th round Dr. Schiff [a ring physician] and I went to his corner. Robinson was very glassy-eyed. His body was wet. He was hot. He didn't know where he was. He was anxious to continue, but he was in no condition. He was absolutely out, physically out.

"When we got him back we had to literally carry him back to his dressing room. I have never seen such a state of cerebral excitation. He didn't know where he was. He was cursing—anybody would do that when he gets in that state. It was a very depressing thing to see."

Robinson was suffering from heat exhaustion. He was dried out to begin with. He became further exhausted because he literally lost three to four quarts of fluid right in the ring, and it wasn't being replaced. Robinson set a very fast pace, but he was already well dried out. Moreover, the humidity was so high that whatever more he sweated didn't evaporate to keep him cool.

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1129822/2/index.htm

Inside the ring, under the lights, where the temperature was 104�, both men kept lighting in their respective styles. They sprayed sweat, but neither seemed un-duly weakened. Robinson took the first 11 rounds with ease. In The New York Times next day Arthur Daley reported, "The middleweight king was truly superb. His combination punches rocked Maxim, and raked him to jaw and body. He hooked and he crossed and he jabbed and he delivered uppercuts. In the seventh Maxim was almost on the verge of a knockout and required smelling salts in his corner." In the same paper James P. Dawson wrote, "Fighting out of a crouch, ignoring a weight handicap of pretty close to twenty pounds, Robinson blazed through the rounds, punching Maxim almost at will."

The fight took a surprising turn at the end of the 10th round, but it did not concern either fighter. Ruby Goldstein, the referee, suddenly caved in. His glistening face turned a horrid gray and. at the bell ending the round, he signaled that he could not continue. The heat had become too much for him. Ray Miller took over at the beginning of the 11th.

Then, not quite so suddenly, but plain for the excited crowd to see, the heat began eating into Sugar Rays reserves. The crowd yelled frantically for him to slow down, to coast along to the end and earn one of the easiest victories of his career. But Robinson continued to dance—on legs that were turning to rubber. Maxim took the 12th round, his first so far, and even began to look like the original figment of Freddie Mills' imagination (and mine). In the 13th Robinson's dance turned to a stagger. He lashed Out awkwardly, missed grotesquely and fell flat on his face. Then he pulled himself up and reeled round the ring. Maxim stared at him, flat-footed, nonplussed, possibly suspecting a trick. No wonder. Nothing in Maxim's career had prepared him to deal with this unprecedented opportunity. As the bell rang at the end of the 13th Robinson stumbled to a neutral corner. He had to be helped over to his stool. His head drooped. Massage and smelling sails failed to revive him. and he was unable to come out for the 14th. The doctor later pronounced it a "heat Stroke."

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1086188/2/index.htm

First paragraph, what does that have to do with anything?

Second paragraph, it was after the 14th round that people around Ali's corner got the impression he didn't want to continue.


NO,it was after the 10th round that Ali "THOUGHT" about quitting in the Trilla' in Manilla.Ali then got himself back into the fight in the 11th and 12th rounds. As far as the 15th round,only Joe Frazier in his book claimed that Willie "The worm" Monroe heard Ali say he wasn't coming out for the last round.Joe Frazier just lost the fight and it was nothing but "sour grapes" from Joe.

Please read Joe Frazier's book,and everything he said about Ali in his book.WOW!! I couldn't believe what I was reading.Please get a copy of his book.It will clearly let you know why Frazier made this 15th round myth up.

You were saying that Ali never wanted to quit. That's why I brought it up, to counter your original argument.

I personally don't think that Ali wanted to quit in the Thrilla in Manila, but he stated immediately after the fight that he had his doubts after the 10th round when Frazier kept coming.



I brought it up, because it's equally classless as you saying that Robinson quit against Maxim, insulting him for it (while I never would about Ali), when he was risking serious injury by continuing to fight severely dehydrated (a fact stated by ring doctors who examined him after the bout). As a boxing fan you should know how dangerous that is, the brain becomes more vulnerable when there is no cushion of fluid to protect it. This is what lead to most ring tragedies, for example McClellan, Watson and Anifowoshe as I stated eaerlier.

As for the last part, actually I responded to your arguments, didn't hear from you in days and didn't check back again. Perhaps you responded with something but I didn't get to see it.

You didn't counter ****e because 1-Ali never quit and 2- You yourself actually agree with this so way to go making an arse of yourself mate. You're completely useless.

And you brought it up because it was classless as well? Then that means you were classless as well, whcih means you stooped to my level. Which means you ripped on Ali the same way. Which means you are a hypocritical moronic retard, mate.

And one thing I never denied is that it would have been dangerous for Salty GAY Robinson to have continued. HOwever, this is BOXING. Everybody knows it's dangerous. If Gay Robinson didn't want to get hurt he shouldn't have even come into the ring that night. You're basicely saying Gay Robinson could dish it out, but not receive it(note the lad he killed in the ring. He may have been killed by Maxim indeed, but he was too cowardly) which only proves me right.

And yes lad you QUIT in the thunderdome thread, just like your idol.
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=285963&page=9

Ran off with your tail between your legs. It's too late now. It's done.

"If he does not restore his fluid loss and enters the ring dehydrated, he may be courting the same disaster that ended the last big money-making light heavyweight championship in New York. It happened three years ago this week, when Sugar Ray Robinson fought Joey Maxim.

Dr. Ira McCown of the State Athletic Commission recalls, "The temperature that day was 94�. The humidity was 90%. That evening was so still and quiet you couldn't even see the flags waving in the breeze—because there was no breeze.

"We had a mass of 45,000 spectators on hand, which increased the heat. At ringside we also had an added factor of about 100 klieg lights overhead. That brought the temperature—it was proven—to 103� at the edge of the ring. Under the lights, we feel undoubtedly, it was nearer 130."

All day long Robinson had taken no fluids. He tried to sleep, but couldn't. He got up about 8 o'clock and Dr. Vincent Nardiello tried to give him something to drink. "I wanted to give him a big glass of lemonade with plenty of sugar. I finally gave him iced tea with plenty of sugar, but he refused to take it. 'Doctor,' he said, 'I've been fighting for 14 years. I never took any fluids before a fight.'

"I said, 'Son, this is a tough night. This is a real hot night. You have got to have fluids.' He didn't take a thing, and that's what licked him. He was absolutely dehydrated."

Robinson set a very fast pace, but he was already well dried out. Moreover, the humidity was so high that whatever more he sweated didn't evaporate to keep him cool.

"The first symptom that we noticed," Dr. McCown remembers, "was about the fourth round—and, mark you, the managers and trainers at ringside said, 'Oh Doc, he's in fine shape. Do you see how he is feinting Maxim for the kill?' Robinson was running around the ropes. I think it was the fifth he went to the wrong corner—well, he went the wrong way, but in the 11th he absolutely went to the wrong corner.

"At the 11th round Dr. Schiff [a ring physician] and I went to his corner. Robinson was very glassy-eyed. His body was wet. He was hot. He didn't know where he was. He was anxious to continue, but he was in no condition. He was absolutely out, physically out.

"When we got him back we had to literally carry him back to his dressing room. I have never seen such a state of cerebral excitation. He didn't know where he was. He was cursing—anybody would do that when he gets in that state. It was a very depressing thing to see."

Robinson was suffering from heat exhaustion. He was dried out to begin with. He became further exhausted because he literally lost three to four quarts of fluid right in the ring, and it wasn't being replaced. Robinson set a very fast pace, but he was already well dried out. Moreover, the humidity was so high that whatever more he sweated didn't evaporate to keep him cool.

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1129822/2/index.htm

Inside the ring, under the lights, where the temperature was 104�, both men kept lighting in their respective styles. They sprayed sweat, but neither seemed un-duly weakened. Robinson took the first 11 rounds with ease. In The New York Times next day Arthur Daley reported, "The middleweight king was truly superb. His combination punches rocked Maxim, and raked him to jaw and body. He hooked and he crossed and he jabbed and he delivered uppercuts. In the seventh Maxim was almost on the verge of a knockout and required smelling salts in his corner." In the same paper James P. Dawson wrote, "Fighting out of a crouch, ignoring a weight handicap of pretty close to twenty pounds, Robinson blazed through the rounds, punching Maxim almost at will."

The fight took a surprising turn at the end of the 10th round, but it did not concern either fighter. Ruby Goldstein, the referee, suddenly caved in. His glistening face turned a horrid gray and. at the bell ending the round, he signaled that he could not continue. The heat had become too much for him. Ray Miller took over at the beginning of the 11th.

Then, not quite so suddenly, but plain for the excited crowd to see, the heat began eating into Sugar Rays reserves. The crowd yelled frantically for him to slow down, to coast along to the end and earn one of the easiest victories of his career. But Robinson continued to dance—on legs that were turning to rubber. Maxim took the 12th round, his first so far, and even began to look like the original figment of Freddie Mills' imagination (and mine). In the 13th Robinson's dance turned to a stagger. He lashed Out awkwardly, missed grotesquely and fell flat on his face. Then he pulled himself up and reeled round the ring. Maxim stared at him, flat-footed, nonplussed, possibly suspecting a trick. No wonder. Nothing in Maxim's career had prepared him to deal with this unprecedented opportunity. As the bell rang at the end of the 13th Robinson stumbled to a neutral corner. He had to be helped over to his stool. His head drooped. Massage and smelling sails failed to revive him. and he was unable to come out for the 14th. The doctor later pronounced it a "heat Stroke."

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1086188/2/index.htm

Thank you for the excellent source. At the time Robinson could not continue, he was ahead 10 rounds to 3, 9 round to 3 with one even, and 7 round to 3 with 3 even on the official scorecards. With a lead that huge, he had to have been completely out of it not to continue with the 175 pound crown on the line. The heat ko'd him just like it did Ruby Goldstein

It was 110 degrees in Manilla,with wicked humitity!

And it was a brutal fight,fought at a very fast pace.

In his book Frazier said it felt like he was in a pizza oven!

Oh,there was no air conditioning.

The brutality that Ali and Frazier went through in that fight was ridiculous. No one quit in that fight; it was Futch that was saving Frazier as it was Frazier that took a horrific beating in the 13th and 14th round and could not see.

It's a myth that Dundee openly admits? And he's admitted it on shows having nothing to do with HBO, so don't start.

I'm not going by Frazier's corner, I'm going by the people around Ali's corner.

As for the last bit, :nonono:



:nonono:


Dundee wasn't the only man in attendance that day dunce.There was an entire press row there incase you forgot,Dundee was as much a self promoter as Ali was.His silly little story doesn't make him look bad,If anything it makes him look like a savvy,smart cornerman.Go and look at the footage dunce,Five extra second clay recieved just five and the gloves were never changed

The facts outweigh the speculation dunce try again.

Thank you for the excellent source. At the time Robinson could not continue, he was ahead 10 rounds to 3, 9 round to 3 with one even, and 7 round to 3 with 3 even on the official scorecards. With a lead that huge, he had to have been completely out of it not to continue with the 175 pound crown on the line. The heat ko'd him just like it did Ruby Goldstein

Lets make this simple.About 90% of boxing experts,trainers,boxing writers,fans,and fighters rank SRR the #1 fighter pfp of all-time.

I think this is kinda funny.One day Muhammad Ali was going on and on about himself being the GOAT,and a reporter asked him:What about SRR? Ali said:"I never said I was the greatest pfp,I said I'm the greatest fighter of all-times"

Kinda witty on Ali's part.But no doubt SRR is the greatest pfp fighter of all-times.He never quit,and Ali never quit....End of story.

lets make this simple.about 90% of boxing experts,trainers,boxing writers,fans,and fighters rank srr the #1 fighter pfp of all-time.

I think this is kinda funny.one day muhammad ali was going on and on about himself being the goat,and a reporter asked him:what about srr? Ali said:"i never said i was the greatest pfp,i said i'm the greatest fighter of all-times"

kinda witty on ali's part.but no doubt srr is the greatest pfp fighter of all-times.he never quit,and ali never quit....end of story.

amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You didn't counter ****e because 1-Ali never quit and 2- You yourself actually agree with this so way to go making an arse of yourself mate. You're completely useless.

I brought up the first Ali-Liston fight as an example that Ali did have thoughts of quitting in his mind. Not in the Thrilla in Manila, but against Liston.

And you brought it up because it was classless as well? Then that means you were classless as well, whcih means you stooped to my level. Which means you ripped on Ali the same way. Which means you are a hypocritical moronic retard, mate.

I brought up the Ali-Holmes fight because it was a situation comparable to the Robinson-Maxim fight, with Ali's health being endangered had he continued to fight, just like Robinson's. I do not criticize Ali for this bout, thus I do not stoop down to your level, because I feel both situations were acceptable and neither fighter should be accused of any "cowardice". It is you who feels the need to insult Robinson for what happened to him against Joey Maxim.

And one thing I never denied is that it would have been dangerous for Salty GAY Robinson to have continued. HOwever, this is BOXING. Everybody knows it's dangerous. If Gay Robinson didn't want to get hurt he shouldn't have even come into the ring that night. You're basicely saying Gay Robinson could dish it out, but not receive it(note the lad he killed in the ring. He may have been killed by Maxim indeed, but he was too cowardly) which only proves me right.


Robinson was one of the toughest boxers who ever lived. This is unquestionable. It's as if you have never seen the man fight.

This is a fighter who continued on until his mid 40's against top competition and was not stopped but once due to heat exhaustion.

And yes lad you QUIT in the thunderdome thread, just like your idol.
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=285963&page=9

Ran off with your tail between your legs. It's too late now. It's done.

As I said, you posted several days after my initial response which is why I missed your post. Anyway, it doesn't seem like there's anything worth responding for which everyone can see for themselves.

No factual response when I brought up facts about Ray Robinson's fight against Maxim.

Agreeing that the Walcott knockdown was legit and trying to act like you were just joking.

Saying I quit in an argument you, when I didn't.

Putting down great fighters by calling them clowns, bums, bumbeaters, gays, chickens and flinging personal insults directed at me left and right, the usual stuff from you to which I've responded more than enough times.

NO,it was after the 10th round that Ali "THOUGHT" about quitting in the Trilla' in Manilla.Ali then got himself back into the fight in the 11th and 12th rounds. As far as the 15th round,only Joe Frazier in his book claimed that Willie "The worm" Monroe heard Ali say he wasn't coming out for the last round.Joe Frazier just lost the fight and it was nothing but "sour grapes" from Joe.

Please read Joe Frazier's book,and everything he said about Ali in his book.WOW!! I couldn't believe what I was reading.Please get a copy of his book.It will clearly let you know why Frazier made this 15th round myth up.

You know I'd take Willie's word over Ali's any day right?

Dundee wasn't the only man in attendance that day dunce.There was an entire press row there incase you forgot,Dundee was as much a self promoter as Ali was.His silly little story doesn't make him look bad,If anything it makes him look like a savvy,smart cornerman.Go and look at the footage dunce,Five extra second clay recieved just five and the gloves were never changed

The facts outweigh the speculation dunce try again.

Dundee is the best witness, his point of view > press rows. Also, I counted about 8 seconds. That's 8 seconds more than he should have had.

You know I'd take Willie's word over Ali's any day right?



Dundee is the best witness, his point of view > press rows. Also, I counted about 8 seconds. That's 8 seconds more than he should have had.

So now you can't even count dunce? It was 5 seconds.Nothing more or nothing less and dundee estimated the time as being even longer.You don't have to be in the corner to count the time in between rounds you moron,If anything considering the shape clay was in at that point.I would take the time keeper and press rows timing over a frantics Angelo Dundee's.Oh wait I forgot there's the actual film there for me to see under my own eyes.

Not only have you actually failed to produce any type of evidence here,You've also gone back on your original statement.The fact that you go along using debunked myths as facts pretty much validates you as a dunce.Now run along ang go watch HBO's re runs of legendary nights while you wait for the next installment of 24/7 Dunce.I'd prefer to discuss matters with those who actually know boxing

mmGAY may be your kind of sport

So now you can't even count dunce? It was 5 seconds.Nothing more or nothing less and dundee estimated the time as being even longer.You don't have to be in the corner to count the time in between rounds you moron,If anything considering the shape clay was in at that point.I would take the time keeper and press rows timing over a frantics Angelo Dundee's.Oh wait I forgot there's the actual film there for me to see under my own eyes.

Not only have you actually failed to produce any type of evidence here,You've also gone back on your original statement.The fact that you go along using debunked myths as facts pretty much validates you as a dunce.Now run along ang go watch HBO's re runs of legendary nights while you wait for the next installment of 24/7 Dunce.I'd prefer to discuss matters with those who actually know boxing

mmGAY may be your kind of sport

If you were smart, you'd realize you make too many assumptions and I've actually contradicted nothing. And if you're not making too many assumptions, you simply aren't very good at reading. This wouldn't surprise me given your favorite vocabulary words seem to be dunce and moron.

game, set, match.Bye Bye dunce

I brought up the first Ali-Liston fight as an example that Ali did have thoughts of quitting in his mind. Not in the Thrilla in Manila, but against Liston.



I brought up the Ali-Holmes fight because it was a situation comparable to the Robinson-Maxim fight, with Ali's health being endangered had he continued to fight, just like Robinson's. I do not criticize Ali for this bout, thus I do not stoop down to your level, because I feel both situations were acceptable and neither fighter should be accused of any "cowardice". It is you who feels the need to insult Robinson for what happened to him against Joey Maxim.



Robinson was one of the toughest boxers who ever lived. This is unquestionable. It's as if you have never seen the man fight.

This is a fighter who continued on until his mid 40's against top competition and was not stopped but once due to heat exhaustion.



As I said, you posted several days after my initial response which is why I missed your post. Anyway, it doesn't seem like there's anything worth responding for which everyone can see for themselves.

No factual response when I brought up facts about Ray Robinson's fight against Maxim.

Agreeing that the Walcott knockdown was legit and trying to act like you were just joking.

Saying I quit in an argument you, when I didn't.

Putting down great fighters by calling them clowns, bums, bumbeaters, gays, chickens and flinging personal insults directed at me left and right, the usual stuff from you to which I've responded more than enough times.

You should have brought up Ali QUITTING. Because that is what it was about. I said Robinson quit, and Ali didn't. I didn't say Robinson had thoughts of quitting, daring anyone to come up with a case of Ali THINKING of quitting as well. You couldn't provide an example. So you FAILED there mate.

And Ali-Holmes is not comparable at all. First of all, here you have a man that was old and so washed up it was a wonder he could still survive a single round. And most importantly, here is a man suffering from PARKINSONS. And here is a man that was not able to win a single round and his corner forced the fight to stop.

Now with Salty GAY Robinson, here is a man still capable of fighting the best, here is a man that was healthy and not suffering from a disease, here is a man that wasn't washed up and took as many beatings as Ali, here is a man actually AHEAD in the fooking fight.

Just face it. Your lad ran out of gas, because that BEAST Maxim took everything he had to offer, shrugged it off and was going in for the kill. Robinson, being a man that could dish it out, but not receive it like a true coward. So he quit on his stool. He was not a warrior like the people who have gotten hurt in the ring. He was scared because he had nothing left. He quit. Deal with it mr excuses.

You know what pisses me off most about this? That nobody talks about Maxim's heart and animal like durability. It's all about poor salty gay, poor poor soul etc. That truly shows how much bias this lad has in his favor, don;t you agree?

Now, some more excuses there. In that thread, we were responding to each other in no order. You'd leave for a few days and respond, and the same with me. You simply couldn't take the abuse no more and QUIT, like a coward. Like your idol. Well done mate.

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THE G.O.A.T

You should have brought up Ali QUITTING. Because that is what it was about. I said Robinson quit, and Ali didn't. I didn't say Robinson had thoughts of quitting, daring anyone to come up with a case of Ali THINKING of quitting as well. You couldn't provide an example. So you FAILED there mate.

You were arguing with Obama who said that Ali was thinking of quitting against Frazier in the Thrilla in Manila.

I brought up Ali-Liston I in which Ali did think of quitting.

I never said he actually quit but in my view neither did Robinson. I've already explained why.


And Ali-Holmes is not comparable at all. First of all, here you have a man that was old and so washed up it was a wonder he could still survive a single round. And most importantly, here is a man suffering from PARKINSONS. And here is a man that was not able to win a single round and his corner forced the fight to stop.

Now with Salty GAY Robinson, here is a man still capable of fighting the best, here is a man that was healthy and not suffering from a disease, here is a man that wasn't washed up and took as many beatings as Ali, here is a man actually AHEAD in the fooking fight.


I compared the situations because both men would have put themselves at risk by continuing, thankfully they didn't. It was obvious by the 10th, 11th and 12th rounds already that Robinson was drained, yet he kept fighting while staggering around the ring. Fought until the end, until he had nothing left.

Just face it. Your lad ran out of gas, because that BEAST Maxim took everything he had to offer, shrugged it off and was going in for the kill. Robinson, being a man that could dish it out, but not receive it like a true coward. So he quit on his stool. He was not a warrior like the people who have gotten hurt in the ring. He was scared because he had nothing left. He quit. Deal with it mr excuses.

Maxim didn't fight any differently in round 1 than he did in round 13. He was flicking out the jab and clinching, which is what he always does. What can't be taken away from Maxim is that he was very smart and very patient but he was not a man who would come after you and try to knock you out.

If you actually watched the fight and knew their styles you would know.

You know what pisses me off most about this? That nobody talks about Maxim's heart and animal like durability. It's all about poor salty gay, poor poor soul etc. That truly shows how much bias this lad has in his favor, don;t you agree?


Except I have always admired the man's durability. It's mostly because of his fights against Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles and Jersey Joe Walcott though, he could absorb a trendemous punch and had the heart and will to always go the distance.

Of course Robinson's effort vs Maxim is brought up, because he was challenging for a light heavyweight title, going up in weight to a 4th weight class (unheard of at the time aside from Armstrong) when there were only 8 weight classes around, and was winning the fight for 13 rounds.

Can you imagine for example Floyd Mayweather, who started at around 130 lbs (as Robinson did), going up to LHW to challenge the champion and being ahead on the scorecards until about the 10th or 11th round until collapsing from heat exhaustion?

You should put it in proper perspective, instead of just trying to degrade a great fighter in every way you can to anger a couple of people you don't know on a boxing forum.

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THE G.O.A.T

This might be the only Ali fan left around these forums. They used to be the majority in 2005-2007.
Now they're replaced by these Salty Louis and SGR fans because they are so threathened by Ali, because the lad should be ranked higher than those overrated wankers.

Probably the most beautiful display of boxing in history.

I don't want to hear about Williams' physical problems either...would it have been any different if he was healthy...or if it was folley, patterson, etc?

What people forget about the holmes/ali bout is that Ali's doctor prescribed pills for a wrongly diagnosed thyroid condition.That played a part in him looking as bad as he did.That and a ruthless Larry Holmes letting out years of anger and frustration on his former mentor


Probably the most beautiful display of boxing in history.

I don't want to hear about Williams' physical problems either...would it have been any different if he was healthy...or if it was folley, patterson, etc?


Difficult to say.However Williams condition is not exagerrated.The guy literally was shot


Now they're replaced by these Salty Louis and SGR fans because they are so threathened by Ali, because the lad should be ranked higher than those overrated wankers.

I agree somewhat with this statement.Joe louis and ray robinson fans tend to be very insecure over the subject of muhammad ali and his legacy when compared to those particular two boxers

Angelo will also be the first to tell you that a young Cassius Clay wanted to quit after the fourth round against Liston but he convinced Ali to continue and try to survive the round.

I bet if Robinson was retired in his corner like Ali was against Holmes you'd be calling him a quitter too due to your bias, but Robinson fought in his mid 40's while a shadow of what he used to be and was never stopped.

I proved to you what his condition was against Maxim (doctors, boxing experts, ringside viewers, former fighters and officials all agreed that he was in no condition to fight on) but I see my arguments have fallen into deaf ears.

It falls on deaf ears my friend: Never try to confuse a troll with facts when they're hatred can come up with SO much better stuff to post (intelligent poster refer to it as "drivel". Honestly, I gave up with that loser a while back now and I bin him with the other worthless trolls that slink into here from NSB.

PS. He also claims Louis "quit" against Schmeling when anybody who's ever seen that fight know Joe was down and out and his corner (or the ref) rightly waved the fight off.

Poet

For the record, when a fighter's corner stops the fight it is NOT the same as a fighter "quitting". A fighter's trainer has the last word on the subject: If he says the fight is over than it's over regardless of what the fighter wants. That's what he's paid for: To look after his fighter's well being when a fighter is too caught up in the heat of battle to know what's good for him.

Poet

Probably the most beautiful display of boxing in history.

I don't want to hear about Williams' physical problems either...would it have been any different if he was healthy...or if it was folley, patterson, etc?

I'd say so.

On paper a prime Cleveland Williams sounds like a tough match-up for Ali, since he had quick hands, great punching power, particularly in his left hook, and good stamina.

The Williams Ali fought should have by all means been in the cemetary instead of a world title fight, yet somehow, almost miraculously, he was able to fight again, despite nearly dying 3 times on the operating table and coming back from being starved down to 150 pounds.

No one can say that it wasn't a brilliant performance by Ali, regardless of the opponent, he could have fought a 60 year old Joe Louis for all I care and I'd still call it that. But he was in there against an opponent who offered nothing and was basically a punching bag in the ring.

If you watch the version of the fight with Ali commentating over it, you'll hear him say that the performance should prove nothing to the public because Williams was all washed up. These were his own words.

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5:20

You were arguing with Obama who said that Ali was thinking of quitting against Frazier in the Thrilla in Manila.

I brought up Ali-Liston I in which Ali did think of quitting.

I never said he actually quit but in my view neither did Robinson. I've already explained why.



I compared the situations because both men would have put themselves at risk by continuing, thankfully they didn't. It was obvious by the 10th, 11th and 12th rounds already that Robinson was drained, yet he kept fighting while staggering around the ring. Fought until the end, until he had nothing left.



Maxim didn't fight any differently in round 1 than he did in round 13. He was flicking out the jab and clinching, which is what he always does. What can't be taken away from Maxim is that he was very smart and very patient but he was not a man who would come after you and try to knock you out.
If you actually watched the fight and knew their styles you would know.



Except I have always admired the man's durability. It's mostly because of his fights against Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles and Jersey Joe Walcott though, he could absorb a trendemous punch and had the heart and will to always go the distance.

Of course Robinson's effort vs Maxim is brought up, because he was challenging for a light heavyweight title, going up in weight to a 4th weight class (unheard of at the time aside from Armstrong) when there were only 8 weight classes around, and was winning the fight for 13 rounds.

Can you imagine for example Floyd Mayweather, who started at around 130 lbs (as Robinson did), going up to LHW to challenge the champion and being ahead on the scorecards until about the 10th or 11th round until collapsing from heat exhaustion?

You should put it in proper perspective, instead of just trying to degrade a great fighter in every way you can to anger a couple of people you don't know on a boxing forum.

The Liston fight? You do realise Ali could not see anything? Being blind against a dangerous fighter like Liston is like jumping off a cliff. Zero chance. I'm surprised Ali survived untill his eyes cleared up, or that he actually came out in that round. Oh and guess what? Ali didn't QUIT, like Salty Gay and Louis, did he? One epic fail after another hahahaha, oh mate you're pathetic.

And nice how you don't have much to say after I broke down your retarded comparison between Ali and Holmes. You ignored every fact I posted so I consider that another retreat on your part.

What do you think would have happened if Robinson found his nuts and came out in the next round? Maxim would have KO'd the cowardly lad. So what you just wrote here has nothing to do with what I said. He could have faced Chris fookin Byrd for all I care, the lad was going down. And he knew it, so he QUIT.

Unlike Tyson who faced his punishment like a MAN, when he had absolutely nothing left in the last few rounds just like Salty Gay Robinson. He still went out and got ko'd by Lewis like a man instead of quitting on his stool like Salty *** Robinson. Comprehend that mate.

And don't start making things up. You and maybe others gave Maxim credit AFTER I FORCED IT OUT OF YOU like I was raping a street hooker, mate. If I didn't exist on these boards the disgusting behavior of you lads discrediting Maxim and rubbing that cowardly quitter's balls would continue. Thank God i'm here lads.

By the way, you retreated yet again about the thunderdome didn't ya mate?:luvbed: You got owned in there, quit like your hero. De ja vu in this thread innit?

The Liston fight? You do realise Ali could not see anything? Being blind against a dangerous fighter like Liston is like jumping off a cliff. Zero chance. I'm surprised Ali survived untill his eyes cleared up, or that he actually came out in that round. Oh and guess what? Ali didn't QUIT, like Salty Gay and Louis, did he? One epic fail after another hahahaha, oh mate you're pathetic.

Again you miss the point. You were arguing with Obama that Ali was not about to quit against Frazier in the Thrilla in Manila.

I can agree with that but he did in fact attempt to quit against Sonny Liston. I brought that to your attention in case you didn't know.

Dundee was able to convince Ali to continue since you could recover from such a thing as some substance going into your eye.

What if he had been completely dehydrated to the point where there were no bodily fluids to support his brain as Robinson was?

Calling Louis a quitter for absorbing right hand bombs from Schmeling for 12 rounds and actually attempting a late round rally with the last of his reserves, when he was obviously knocked out with no possibility to recover, shows the bias you have out for him that is there for all to see.

And nice how you don't have much to say after I broke down your retarded comparison between Ali and Holmes. You ignored every fact I posted so I consider that another retreat on your part.

You ignore my actual point. Both fighters were endangering their health had they continued, thus it was acceptable for them to retire in their corner (or to be retired in their corner as was the case both times).

What do you think would have happened if Robinson found his nuts and came out in the next round? Maxim would have KO'd the cowardly lad. So what you just wrote here has nothing to do with what I said. He could have faced Chris fookin Byrd for all I care, the lad was going down. And he knew it, so he QUIT.

Robinson had to be carried out. He would have had to be dragged into the ring for the next round.

Unlike Tyson who faced his punishment like a MAN, when he had absolutely nothing left in the last few rounds just like Salty Gay Robinson. He still went out and got ko'd by Lewis like a man instead of quitting on his stool like Salty *** Robinson. Comprehend that mate.


And he then went onto sit out against Danny Williams and Kevin McBride. Not to mention when he bit Holyfield's ear to get out of a fight he was losing.

What a warrior. Unlike that quitter Ray Robinson who was only stopped once in a 170+ fight career that spanned more than two decades.


And don't start making things up. You and maybe others gave Maxim credit AFTER I FORCED IT OUT OF YOU like I was raping a street hooker, mate. If I didn't exist on these boards the disgusting behavior of you lads discrediting Maxim and rubbing that cowardly quitter's balls would continue. Thank God i'm here lads.

I've given him credit long before you ever began polluting this forum with your nonsense.

Dempsey couldn't knock out worse light heavyweights than Maxim.

I guess Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles and Jersey Joe Walcott couldn't punch either since none of them were able to finish off Joey Maxim and each of them had several tries at that.

The man had a granite chin, no question about it.

By the way, you retreated yet again about the thunderdome didn't ya mate?:luvbed: You got owned in there, quit like your hero. De ja vu in this thread innit?

I think everyone can make up their own minds about whether I was "owned" or not.

The fact is that you didn't respond until two days later and I did not notice you had posted there until now.

By all rights Clay may not have deserved to beat Cooper the first time. Angelo cheated for him. Can't even be sure Angelo did it without Ali asking him. Ali did after all ask for his gloves to be cut off in the 3rd Frazier fight. Yes I realize the forms of cutting are different, but maybe Ali wanted to quit in the Cooper fight too and Angelo compromised to make it look like a glove malfunction in order to buy the kid enough time to change his mind.

lmao, watch the fight im sure its on youtube....alis clearly not taking cooper seriously, fooling around and taunting until he got dropped at the end of the 4th.....all in all he gets an extra 6 seconds, which is no big deal.....especially since he gets serious and stops cooper the next round....

just because someone is being disrespectful of robinson is no reason to lie...

Ali was overated. That's been my opinion for some time now. Especially in the 70's. He did beat Foreman in Zaire and Frazier in Manila, but that's it. He lost a lot of fights that he got by crooked decisions. The third Norton fight and the Jimmy Young fight in particular. And I think the decision in the Shavers fight also was kinda disputed.

3rd norton fight was a tie at worst.....norton catches alis jabs but lands only a handful of good punches...jimmy young makes cory spinks look like tyson....both of those fights were after 1975 so how can you claim someone is overrated by talking about fights no one brings up when talking about alis greatness?

I scored the third fight 8-7 to norton.I had him up about 6-2 after 8 rounds but he lost a tremendous amount of steam after the 8th and allowed ali back into the fight,Ali was starting to set the pattern of the second fight of just jabbing and moving and even throwing out the right hand and norton was simply allowing this,He seemed so determined to want to take ali's shot in some sort of machismo like behaviour and all that's going to do is lose points

Don't bother trying to get real facts out of obama(Dunce)He tends to rely on half ass myths,half truths and bull**** lies as his source.He has no problem using them and later backing out of his original arguments

As for benncollinsaad,He doesn't really watch boxing and has no formal education so it's harsh to denounce him.I feel best to simply humor him like one would a retard

You didn't prove nothing mate. Robinson was still a live fighter, won some rounds too but when Maxim turned up the heat on him, Salty GAY Robinson saw that he was going to be KO'd for the first time. So like the coward he was, he quit and acted like he couldn't continue.


Some? Robinson only had to stand up for the last couple of rounds to win. Also Maxim wasn't known for having a knock out punch. Credit to Maxim he survived the heat and won, SRR and the referee didn't and that was the story of the fight.
To try and turn this into Maxim beating SRR into defeat is as stupid as your posts on Louis. Do yourself a favour don't post on Louis or SRR your bias just makes you look ridiculous.

lmao, watch the fight im sure its on youtube....alis clearly not taking cooper seriously, fooling around and taunting until he got dropped at the end of the 4th.....all in all he gets an extra 6 seconds, which is no big deal.....especially since he gets serious and stops cooper the next round....

just because someone is being disrespectful of robinson is no reason to lie...

Better yet I have it on my HD. 1 minute 8 seconds went by from the bell sounding the end of round 4 to Ali getting off his stool in round 5 (The bell rang when Ali was still on the canvas, which perhaps it shouldn't have, but since it did the next bell is to sound within 1 minute). Whether he needed that extra 8 seconds or not is another story, just pointing out he shouldn't have had them.

Five seconds dunce.And you were hardly making note of the time earlier on in the thread until I called you out on it.In fact,You don't seem so persistent on your cries of cheating as you were earlier.

Five seconds dunce.And you were hardly making note of the time earlier on in the thread until I called you out on it.In fact,You don't seem so persistent on your cries of cheating as you were earlier.

It's not my fault you can't read and make baseless assumptions.

Ali was overated. That's been my opinion for some time now. Especially in the 70's. He did beat Foreman in Zaire and Frazier in Manila, but that's it. He lost a lot of fights that he got by crooked decisions. The third Norton fight and the Jimmy Young fight in particular. And I think the decision in the Shavers fight also was kinda disputed.

If you have actually seen the Shavers fight then you are a certified retard.

If you haven't you shouldn't be posting in this thread as you are not properly informed.

Either way, you are a cunt.


Also, this thread is pretty much evidence of how poor this site is. Sure, we have some people on here who know as much about boxing as anyone on the planet, but my god we have some cunts in here that should just keep their half-assed, incorrect opinions to themselves and not pollute this forum with them.

Its a great site! But as you would expect not everyone is as knowledgeable as others. There are some wallys too.....hee hee.

i don't like the topic, it is surely right that Ali is not overrated,

You should have brought up Ali QUITTING. Because that is what it was about. I said Robinson quit, and Ali didn't. I didn't say Robinson had thoughts of quitting, daring anyone to come up with a case of Ali THINKING of quitting as well. You couldn't provide an example. So you FAILED there mate.

And Ali-Holmes is not comparable at all. First of all, here you have a man that was old and so washed up it was a wonder he could still survive a single round. And most importantly, here is a man suffering from PARKINSONS. And here is a man that was not able to win a single round and his corner forced the fight to stop.

Now with Salty GAY Robinson, here is a man still capable of fighting the best, here is a man that was healthy and not suffering from a disease, here is a man that wasn't washed up and took as many beatings as Ali, here is a man actually AHEAD in the fooking fight.

Just face it. Your lad ran out of gas, because that BEAST Maxim took everything he had to offer, shrugged it off and was going in for the kill. Robinson, being a man that could dish it out, but not receive it like a true coward. So he quit on his stool. He was not a warrior like the people who have gotten hurt in the ring. He was scared because he had nothing left. He quit. Deal with it mr excuses.

You know what pisses me off most about this? That nobody talks about Maxim's heart and animal like durability. It's all about poor salty gay, poor poor soul etc. That truly shows how much bias this lad has in his favor, don;t you agree?

Now, some more excuses there. In that thread, we were responding to each other in no order. You'd leave for a few days and respond, and the same with me. You simply couldn't take the abuse no more and QUIT, like a coward. Like your idol. Well done mate.

A true coward? You are calling a man with 200 pro fights a coward? That pretty much sums it all up. Note to everyone here: Don't bother reading this morons posts.

I don't think you realise how much balls it takes just to get in there for an amateur fight.

For the record, when a fighter's corner stops the fight it is NOT the same as a fighter "quitting". A fighter's trainer has the last word on the subject: If he says the fight is over than it's over regardless of what the fighter wants. That's what he's paid for: To look after his fighter's well being when a fighter is to caught up in the heat of battle to know what's good for him.

Poet

Exactly!!!!!!! Bloody hell!

Some examples:

Tszyu's corner stopped the Hatton fight, Tszyu did not quit!

Robinson passed out in his corner in the Maxim fight, he was seriously ill, could not keep food or drink down for several days and was covered in blisters, terrible case of heatstroke. He did not quit, he wasn't even in a state to make a decision to quit, he was in such a state his corner wouldn't have been able to send him out for the next round.

Frazier's trainer Futch stopped the Thrilla in Manila, not many people confuse this one but i saw some moron on here the other day calling Frazier a quitter.

Frazier's trainer Futch stopped the Thrilla in Manila, not many people confuse this one but i saw some moron on here the other day calling Frazier a quitter.

Yes, that would be the Prince of Poop: He's Slimey's alt.

Poet

Also, this thread is pretty much evidence of how poor this site is. Sure, we have some people on here who know as much about boxing as anyone on the planet, but my god we have some cunts in here that should just keep their half-assed, incorrect opinions to themselves and not pollute this forum with them.

To be fair, there are always going to be trolls and ignorant baffoons on every site. When I was posing over on Banter I ran into some and for damn sure when I was posting on Forum. I do know a site where everyone there is a class A poster the only problem is there's hardly any posting to respond to.

For better or worse, Boxing Scene routinely has the most action on a daily basis: It's incredibly rare that I don't find SOMETHING to respond to.

Poet

Again you miss the point. You were arguing with Obama that Ali was not about to quit against Frazier in the Thrilla in Manila.

I can agree with that but he did in fact attempt to quit against Sonny Liston. I brought that to your attention in case you didn't know.

Dundee was able to convince Ali to continue since you could recover from such a thing as some substance going into your eye.

What if he had been completely dehydrated to the point where there were no bodily fluids to support his brain as Robinson was?

Calling Louis a quitter for absorbing right hand bombs from Schmeling for 12 rounds and actually attempting a late round rally with the last of his reserves, when he was obviously knocked out with no possibility to recover, shows the bias you have out for him that is there for all to see.



You ignore my actual point. Both fighters were endangering their health had they continued, thus it was acceptable for them to retire in their corner (or to be retired in their corner as was the case both times).



Robinson had to be carried out. He would have had to be dragged into the ring for the next round.



And he then went onto sit out against Danny Williams and Kevin McBride. Not to mention when he bit Holyfield's ear to get out of a fight he was losing.

What a warrior. Unlike that quitter Ray Robinson who was only stopped once in a 170+ fight career that spanned more than two decades.



I've given him credit long before you ever began polluting this forum with your nonsense.



The man had a granite chin, no question about it.



I think everyone can make up their own minds about whether I was "owned" or not.

The fact is that you didn't respond until two days later and I did not notice you had posted there until now.

Like I already explained, the Liston example is irrelevant and has nothing to do with the Frazier fight so you failed to prove that Ali wanted to quit against Frazier, mate. On Espn classic Dundee himself stated that Ali did not want to quit. It would be retarded for him to do so, since he was close to finishing Frazier off, had more left in him and Frazier couldn't see anything. The point is that Ali never quit like Salty Gay Robinson and Joe Louis and that's a fact. You put too much stock into rumours.

And like I said, Boxing is extremely dangerous. Fighters fight dehydrated all the time. It's part of the sport. You are making exceptions for Gay, he simply should not have been in the ring if he was stupid enough not to drink anything before the fight. In fact lad, did you not tell me once that Robinson once said that he never drank anything before his fights?

And Louis, it is quite clear that he was very discouraged when Schmeling went in for the kill, and could see in his facial expressions that he wanted nothing more to do with that animal. He was concious and rolling around a bit on the canvas. He even went down in a half arsed way. He just QUIT. PLain and simple. Joe Louis is another lad that could dish it out, but not receive it.

Haha, I knew you would bring up Tyson's fights against Williams and Mcbride. How irrelevent yet again mate, you are borderline close to getting the nickname FAILMACHINE. I gave you an example of Tyson not quitting against Lewis. The fact that he may have quit in other fights does not cover up the fact that he showed more balls that night than any Salty Gay fighters you look up to.

And saying Maxim had a great chin is hardly a compliment. You should have mentioned his courage, heart and mental toughness. Of cource you never did untill I, the Slimey one, forced it out of you, you cunt.

And some more excuses about the thunderdome thread? Perhaps you were dehydrated that day, innit mate? haha, or maybe I had a weight advantage on you. It was a fact that you took several knees in that thread and finally QUIT and ran off with your tail between your legs.

Face it lad, when I replied, that thread was in the first page of the Thunderdome for a week. You simply quit, like your cowardly bumbeating overrated idols.:luvbed:

Yes, that would be the Prince of Poop: He's Slimey's alt.

Poet

Don't get me started on you again lad. I shut you up many times before, so you best get back to cheerleading your fellow Louis nuthuggers again before I show everyone here what a tough guy you are.

If you have actually seen the Shavers fight then you are a certified retard.

If you haven't you shouldn't be posting in this thread as you are not properly informed.

Either way, you are a cunt.


Also, this thread is pretty much evidence of how poor this site is. Sure, we have some people on here who know as much about boxing as anyone on the planet, but my god we have some cunts in here that should just keep their half-assed, incorrect opinions to themselves and not pollute this forum with them.

I agree.

Shavers lost the fight clearly imo, he had a few good rounds late in the fight where he wobbled Ali but by and large he did too much stalking not enough letting his hands go.

Benncollinsaad does seem like a decent chap though.:boxing:

Benncollinsaad does seem like a decent chap though.

Naw, he's one of Tunney's band of Eastern Euro nuthuggers.

Poet

Naw, he's one of Tunney's band of Eastern Euro nuthuggers.

Poet

Yeah ? i hadn't noticed.

Do you reckon he is/was...............Hungryherbet ? he was a bit of a Kilt fan who stood by everything Tunney and WLADOWNS said, he disappeared all of sudden though.

Like I already explained, the Liston example is irrelevant and has nothing to do with the Frazier fight so you failed to prove that Ali wanted to quit against Frazier, mate. On Espn classic Dundee himself stated that Ali did not want to quit. It would be retarded for him to do so, since he was close to finishing Frazier off, had more left in him and Frazier couldn't see anything. The point is that Ali never quit like Salty Gay Robinson and Joe Louis and that's a fact. You put too much stock into rumours.

Again, I agreed that Ali was not about to quit against Frazier but he did want to quit against Liston. It was not an irrelevant example since you were discussing whether Ali ever wanted to quit or not.

Neither Robinson or Louis quit as I've proven over and over.

And like I said, Boxing is extremely dangerous. Fighters fight dehydrated all the time. It's part of the sport. You are making exceptions for Gay, he simply should not have been in the ring if he was stupid enough not to drink anything before the fight. In fact lad, did you not tell me once that Robinson once said that he never drank anything before his fights?

Fighters don't fight that dehydrated all the time. That's a ridiculous statement.

Robinson did not drink anything before his fights, which cost him under the extreme conditions he fought against Maxim. As I've proven before it was not only Robinson who suffered from dehydration, the referee and several ringside viewers had to be taken out as well.

And Louis, it is quite clear that he was very discouraged when Schmeling went in for the kill, and could see in his facial expressions that he wanted nothing more to do with that animal. He was concious and rolling around a bit on the canvas. He even went down in a half arsed way. He just QUIT. PLain and simple. Joe Louis is another lad that could dish it out, but not receive it.

Louis had taken a beating for 12 rounds and had suffered a serious knockdown in the early rounds from which many would not have recovered.

He rallied in the late rounds and by the 12th it was obvious he was spent. Schmeling landed numerous combinations in that round and knocked Louis down with a right hand from which he could not get up.

You are pretty much the only one I've heard who has accused Louis of "quitting" in that fight.

Haha, I knew you would bring up Tyson's fights against Williams and Mcbride. How irrelevent yet again mate, you are borderline close to getting the nickname FAILMACHINE. I gave you an example of Tyson not quitting against Lewis. The fact that he may have quit in other fights does not cover up the fact that he showed more balls that night than any Salty Gay fighters you look up to.

This is a major "fail" on your part. By excusing Tyson's quitting due to the fact that he did not quit against Lewis shows your hypocrisy and bias. What about the 200 other fights in which Robinson was never stopped and showed trendemous heart?

What about all the times Louis was knocked down and came back to knock his opponents out?

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And saying Maxim had a great chin is hardly a compliment. You should have mentioned his courage, heart and mental toughness. Of cource you never did untill I, the Slimey one, forced it out of you, you cunt.

Not true. I can even point out to posts I've made on other forums where I've given Maxim his just credit.

http://www. e a s t s i d e b o x i n g .com/forum/showpost.php?p=4288495&postcount=43

And some more excuses about the thunderdome thread? Perhaps you were dehydrated that day, innit mate? haha, or maybe I had a weight advantage on you. It was a fact that you took several knees in that thread and finally QUIT and ran off with your tail between your legs.

Face it lad, when I replied, that thread was in the first page of the Thunderdome for a week. You simply quit, like your cowardly bumbeating overrated idols.:luvbed:

You didn't post for days, I never looked there again, end of story. I imagined you had disappered like a ghost as you had in all of our other arguments when you had nothing to say against the facts I presented.

Yeah ? i hadn't noticed.

Do you reckon he is/was...............Hungryherbet ? he was a bit of a Kilt fan who stood by everything Tunney and WLADOWNS said, he disappeared all of sudden though.

Is that HungryHerbert? For a while he was running around as clone of TheGreatA mocking his posts. He needs a life.....seriously.

Poet

He's not overrated at all IMO. Obviously he's beatable, but who isn't? He truley is great and deserves all the credit he gets.

In his prime I beleive he was trule unbeatable. The night he fought Cleveland Williams was the peak of his physical prowess and no fighter of any discipline would have touched him that night

There were not many fighters who were not afraid to fight Sonny Liston,let alone fight him not being able to see.I don't know of any other fighter who could have fought Liston half blind and got through the round,do you?

Would of,could of,should of.....The fact is Ali did not quit.He fought the menacing,invinsible,unbeatable Sonny Liston half blind and survided the round.Then was back in complete control the next round.

This is all actually a plus on Ali's boxing resume' .A young Cassius Clay with only 19 pro fights easily beats Liston,and fighting 1 round not being able to see!!

Again, I agreed that Ali was not about to quit against Frazier but he did want to quit against Liston. It was not an irrelevant example since you were discussing whether Ali ever wanted to quit or not.

Neither Robinson or Louis quit as I've proven over and over.



Fighters don't fight that dehydrated all the time. That's a ridiculous statement.

Robinson did not drink anything before his fights, which cost him under the extreme conditions he fought against Maxim. As I've proven before it was not only Robinson who suffered from dehydration, the referee and several ringside viewers had to be taken out as well.



Louis had taken a beating for 12 rounds and had suffered a serious knockdown in the early rounds from which many would not have recovered.

He rallied in the late rounds and by the 12th it was obvious he was spent. Schmeling landed numerous combinations in that round and knocked Louis down with a right hand from which he could not get up.

You are pretty much the only one I've heard who has accused Louis of "quitting" in that fight.



This is a major "fail" on your part. By excusing Tyson's quitting due to the fact that he did not quit against Lewis shows your hypocrisy and bias. What about the 200 other fights in which Robinson was never stopped and showed trendemous heart?

What about all the times Louis was knocked down and came back to knock his opponents out?

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Not true. I can even point out to posts I've made on other forums where I've given Maxim his just credit.

http://www. e a s t s i d e b o x i n g .com/forum/showpost.php?p=4288495&postcount=43



You didn't post for days, I never looked there again, end of story. I imagined you had disappered like a ghost as you had in all of our other arguments when you had nothing to say against the facts I presented.

Yes it was an irrelevant example because I was discussing wether Ali wanted to quit or not in the Frazier fight. You were the first moron to even mention the Liston fight. It's not my fault your English is so crappy that you can't comprehend the most simple stuff, mate.

Nowadays in the lower weight classes MANY fighters do fight dehydrated. Again, it's not my fault you're so stuck in the past that all those all fights are shoved up your arse. I doubt you even follow todays Boxing. The most recent example was De La Hoya- Pacquiao. Very dangerous there too. He of cource pulled a SGR as we all know.

Now, you are still making excuses for Salty Gay Robinson. I want to see you say that it was his OWN fault. It's the cunt's own mistake for not drinking anything before the fight. What a fooking idiotic thing to do, innit? Can you atleast admit this was his fault and mistake? I know this will be a very very VERY hard thing for you to do since admitting a SINGLE flaw about Gay is like a bullet through the heart to you. Try it out lad.

And actually I've heard people say before that Louis didn't have much of an effort to get up after that knockdown. And of cource you won't find anyone here say it because it's filled with Louis arsehole pluckers such as you. It's undeniable that the cunt was still concious, didn't go down badly as he held on to the ropes and didn't bounce his head on the mat. And he was looking around annoyed and tired. ZERO effort to get up. QUITTER.

What about Louis getting up? Wow, so impressive getting up against bums. FAIL.
And I was comparing 1 fight to the other. Lewis-Tyson to SGR-Maxim. We all know Tyson didn't even want to be in the ring anymore and hadn't won any meaningful fight in a long time against Williams and Mcbride. GAY Robinson on the other hand was still an active good fighter, and was beating Maxim out of all people. Another FAIL there mate. Terrible example as always, which im used to by now. You want another good example? Margarito having nothing left and still meeting his fate against Mosley. He was KO'd like a man. Unlike Salty GAY the quitter.

And nice excuses there again mate. Face it, you couldn't handle the heat anymore in that thunderdome thread. You quit like your 2 idols:luvbed: It's funny how you were ranting over there about how I supposedly left arguments we had before, and you did the same thing there hahaha. I schooled you there. Remember when you accused of being some guys alt there? I quickly OWNED you there and shut you up about it. I destroyed you in that thread which is why you quit.

Yeah ? i hadn't noticed.

Do you reckon he is/was...............Hungryherbet ? he was a bit of a Kilt fan who stood by everything Tunney and WLADOWNS said, he disappeared all of sudden though.

No, I can confirm that I am DEFINITELY not this Hungryherbet. I've never been on this forum before. That's it. And I am not a fanatical Klitschko fan, I just happen to like and admire the brothers. Is that such a crazy thing??

Yes it was an irrelevant example because I was discussing wether Ali wanted to quit or not in the Frazier fight. You were the first moron to even mention the Liston fight. It's not my fault your English is so crappy that you can't comprehend the most simple stuff, mate.

Ali never wanted to quit, and was not a quitter, and never actually quit. That's all a bunch of nonsense from his dislikers. You have a lot of nerve making these claims while you sport an avatar with a cowardly quitter like that.



Nowadays in the lower weight classes MANY fighters do fight dehydrated. Again, it's not my fault you're so stuck in the past that all those all fights are shoved up your arse. I doubt you even follow todays Boxing. The most recent example was De La Hoya- Pacquiao. Very dangerous there too. He of cource pulled a SGR as we all know.

They don't fight dehydrated to the extent of Robinson because they have the possibility to rehydrate due to the weigh-ins being held a day before the fight.

De La Hoya was dehydrated no doubt, but he hadn't actually lost weight during the fight, leading to heat exhaustion as Robinson had. And De La Hoya did indeed quit while Robinson had to be carried out after 13 rounds.

Now, you are still making excuses for Salty Gay Robinson. I want to see you say that it was his OWN fault. It's the cunt's own mistake for not drinking anything before the fight. What a fooking idiotic thing to do, innit? Can you atleast admit this was his fault and mistake? I know this will be a very very VERY hard thing for you to do since admitting a SINGLE flaw about Gay is like a bullet through the heart to you. Try it out lad.

I'll be the first to tell you that it's foolish to go into a fight dehydrated, especially when you're going to fight under extreme conditions as Robinson and Maxim did.

My point was not that he was smart in doing it, my point is that he wasn't a coward for being dehydrated and having to be carried out of the ring after 13 rounds of fighting exhausted under extreme conditions.

And actually I've heard people say before that Louis didn't have much of an effort to get up after that knockdown. And of cource you won't find anyone here say it because it's filled with Louis arsehole pluckers such as you. It's undeniable that the cunt was still concious, didn't go down badly as he held on to the ropes and didn't bounce his head on the mat. And he was looking around annoyed and tired. ZERO effort to get up. QUITTER.

Never heard anyone else say that, anywhere. Louis got up from a knockdown early on when he still had stamina and hadn't been beaten up, but by the 12th round he was beaten up and exhausted, unable to get up. That was that.

What about Louis getting up? Wow, so impressive getting up against bums. FAIL.
And I was comparing 1 fight to the other. Lewis-Tyson to SGR-Maxim. We all know Tyson didn't even want to be in the ring anymore and hadn't won any meaningful fight in a long time against Williams and Mcbride. GAY Robinson on the other hand was still an active good fighter, and was beating Maxim out of all people. Another FAIL there mate. Terrible example as always, which im used to by now. You want another good example? Margarito having nothing left and still meeting his fate against Mosley. He was KO'd like a man. Unlike Salty GAY the quitter.

Mike Tyson himself expressed his admiration for Louis, who got up against Walcott (certainly no bum) and came back to knock him out with a combination.

Lets face it, you shot yourself in the own foot by bringing up Mike Tyson. He certainly wasn't washed up against Holyfield, yet he got out of the fight by biting Holyfield.

Another "great" example in Margarito who was caught using plaster before the bout. He took his beating well but he wasn't in any danger to his health when the fight was stopped.

And nice excuses there again mate. Face it, you couldn't handle the heat anymore in that thunderdome thread. You quit like your 2 idols:luvbed: It's funny how you were ranting over there about how I supposedly left arguments we had before, and you did the same thing there hahaha. I schooled you there. Remember when you accused of being some guys alt there? I quickly OWNED you there and shut you up about it. I destroyed you in that thread which is why you quit.

I've made my point. You didn't show your face up there until days after I posted. I did respond to your arguments in an earlier post but you said nothing to that.

I agree.

Shavers lost the fight clearly imo, he had a few good rounds late in the fight where he wobbled Ali but by and large he did too much stalking not enough letting his hands go.

Benncollinsaad does seem like a decent chap though.:boxing:
Yeah Ali won that fight clearly.

A great article on that fight is here:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1135750/index.htm

The last round was great. It's here:

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No, I can confirm that I am DEFINITELY not this Hungryherbet. I've never been on this forum before. That's it. And I am not a fanatical Klitschko fan, I just happen to like and admire the brothers. Is that such a crazy thing??

Ok.

I have no problem with you and you have been cool with with me so :boxing:

Ok.

I have no problem with you and you have been cool with with me so :boxing:

Good. I'm also a fan of Norris, McCallum and Holyfield.;)

I just happen to like and admire the brothers. Is that such a crazy thing??

That makes you a hopeless Klit-Licker and one of Tunney's vultures.

Poet

Not at all.

He was an amazing puncher, had an amazing chin and perhaps had the best thing in boxing; the mind. He was so incredibly smart at boxing, he amazes me time after time when I see his fights.

When you see his fights on REC, you always see something new that you "Wow, did you see that" too, if you know what I mean :p

Where are KNN and LondonRingRules?
I'm beginning to worry about them!

Where are KNN and LondonRingRules?
I'm beginning to worry about them!

Tunney's KNN alt has probably been retired and he's moved on to new fake IDs. LRR aka "The Village Idiot" hasn't posted in a month so maybe we've all lucked out and the senile sh1t's finally been institutionalized.

Poet

That makes you a hopeless Klit-Licker and one of Tunney's vultures.

Poet

And you are just one of hordes of envious Americans who channel their frustration by calling Klitschkos and their fans names and insulting them. Glad we got that straightened out.

They don't fight dehydrated to the extent of Robinson because they have the possibility to rehydrate due to the weigh-ins being held a day before the fight.

De La Hoya was dehydrated no doubt, but he hadn't actually lost weight during the fight, leading to heat exhaustion as Robinson had. And De La Hoya did indeed quit while Robinson had to be carried out after 13 rounds.



I'll be the first to tell you that it's foolish to go into a fight dehydrated, especially when you're going to fight under extreme conditions as Robinson and Maxim did.

My point was not that he was smart in doing it, my point is that he wasn't a coward for being dehydrated and having to be carried out of the ring after 13 rounds of fighting exhausted under extreme conditions.



Never heard anyone else say that, anywhere. Louis got up from a knockdown early on when he still had stamina and hadn't been beaten up, but by the 12th round he was beaten up and exhausted, unable to get up. That was that.



Mike Tyson himself expressed his admiration for Louis, who got up against Walcott (certainly no bum) and came back to knock him out with a combination.

Lets face it, you shot yourself in the own foot by bringing up Mike Tyson. He certainly wasn't washed up against Holyfield, yet he got out of the fight by biting Holyfield.

Another "great" example in Margarito who was caught using plaster before the bout. He took his beating well but he wasn't in any danger to his health when the fight was stopped.



I've made my point. You didn't show your face up there until days after I posted. I did respond to your arguments in an earlier post but you said nothing to that.

Dehydrated is dehydrated. It's both dangerous, life threatning either way. You can't pinpoint exactly how much of a diffirence it is. That's just another idiotic strawman argument from you, because yet again you were caught with your pants down. You failed.

Oh, so now the lad is saying it's foolish. I can't help but notice you didn't include Gay's name anywhere, thus STILL not admitting he made a dumbarse mistake by doing this:luvbed:. When you duck this every time you prove me right about you being a biased nuthugger who won't admit a single flaw about your man.

Like I said, the Louis nuthugging crowds you hang around with, of cource you won't hear anyone say that, ever. What are you a complete tosser, mate? Do you think a biased emotional Louis nutlicker like you and others will see it as Louis quitting? You say he was "unable to get up" yet he was still concious and just looking and rolling around. He was simply discouraged and didn't WANT to get up. He did not even make an effort. You simply dodge these facts over and over again and just repeat your same garbage, because you are so affraid to discuss it.

And Mike Tyson's admiration of Louis has nothing to do with it. I brought up an example of Tyson having nothing left like Louis and Gay, yet he still came out and took his beating and KO like a man even though it was dangerous. You know by me bringing this up it shoots your crappy arguments down, mate. So you bring up irrelevant things such as his fights against Williams etc when he had nothing left as a fighter, and can't be compared to SGR-Maxim. So you blatantly IGNORED the Lewis-Tyson example. And now you do the same with Margarito and bringing up the plaster. How retarded are you that you do this every single time and act like you're not a biased cunt, mate? Have you no shame? You want more?
Holy-Bowe 3
Willard-Dempsey
Ruddock-Tyson
Frazier-Foreman
Bowe-Golota
Moore-Marciano
etc etc etc

All these lads had nothing left and still came out and took their beating like a man, and some were ko'd but weren't affraid of it. These are real warriors unlike Gay Robinson who quit on his stool and has every excuse made for him by his fanboys like you. Now you're probably going to do the same to these fights I mentioned, and try to discredit them in any way you can, because that's what a fookin tosser you are mate.

And as for this classic thunderdome thread where I owned you and you quit like Gay:luvbed:
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=285963&page=9
There were earlier times when me or you didn't respond for a day or so. Yet ONE time I respond only 2 days later this time, you act like it didn't catch your mind? It was on the first page of the thunderdome for nearly a week, mate. A loser like you who spends hours upon hours of researching threads, topics, flame wars, etc wouldn't even peek once? Especially after a flame war that lasted for days?
Don't give me those excuses you wanker. You quit in that thread. Just like you're already quitting here.
You ignored when I called you out on admitting a flaw about SGR.
You ignored all the things I mentioned about the possibility that Louis did quit.
You ignored the Lewis-Tyson example.
You ignored the thunderdome issue
You ignored the Margarito-Mosley example just like you will discredit all the other fights I mentioned.

De Ja Vu mate.

Dehydrated is dehydrated. It's both dangerous, life threatning either way. You can't pinpoint exactly how much of a diffirence it is. That's just another idiotic strawman argument from you, because yet again you were caught with your pants down. You failed.

There's a difference between the severity of being dehydrated. Only a fool would deny this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperthermia

As I've proven previously, Robinson lost 10 pounds of weight during the fight.

Oh, so now the lad is saying it's foolish. I can't help but notice you didn't include Gay's name anywhere, thus STILL not admitting he made a dumbarse mistake by doing this:luvbed:. When you duck this every time you prove me right about you being a biased nuthugger who won't admit a single flaw about your man.


Robinson also had a tradition of going into fights without drinking water. Certainly not a very smart move by him and one he had to pay for under those kind of conditions.



Like I said, the Louis nuthugging crowds you hang around with, of cource you won't hear anyone say that, ever. What are you a complete tosser, mate? Do you think a biased emotional Louis nutlicker like you and others will see it as Louis quitting? You say he was "unable to get up" yet he was still concious and just looking and rolling around. He was simply discouraged and didn't WANT to get up. He did not even make an effort. You simply dodge these facts over and over again and just repeat your same garbage, because you are so affraid to discuss it.

Well, since you think there are so many people who label Louis a quitter, I'd like you to point out one good source where anyone (aside from you) criticizes Louis for having no heart and quitting against Schmeling. Should be easy.

At the same time I can point out to numerous sources that have no mention of Louis "quitting":

http://books.google.fi/books?id=ExgnPewr_2QC&lpg=PP1&dq=ring%20of%20hate&pg=PA83#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Louis was not able to get up, because he had been beaten down. End of story.


And Mike Tyson's admiration of Louis has nothing to do with it. I brought up an example of Tyson having nothing left like Louis and Gay, yet he still came out and took his beating and KO like a man even though it was dangerous. You know by me bringing this up it shoots your crappy arguments down, mate. So you bring up irrelevant things such as his fights against Williams etc when he had nothing left as a fighter, and can't be compared to SGR-Maxim. So you blatantly IGNORED the Lewis-Tyson example. And now you do the same with Margarito and bringing up the plaster. How retarded are you that you do this every single time and act like you're not a biased cunt, mate? Have you no shame? You want more?
Holy-Bowe 3
Willard-Dempsey
Ruddock-Tyson
Frazier-Foreman
Bowe-Golota
Moore-Marciano
etc etc etc

I'm simply pointing out your obvious hypocrisy, ignorance and bias for excusing Tyson's quitting in other fights because he continued fighting once, while calling Louis and Robinson cowards even though they showed heart in numerous fights.

How much did 45 year old Ray Robinson have left as a fighter when he kept getting up against 20 year younger opposition and went the distance everytime? How much did Joe Louis have left when he fought Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles and Rocky Marciano? Did he ever show any quit in those fights?

You bringing up the Tyson-Lewis fight is funny by the way because Tyson was still conscious, although beaten down, yet he took the 10 count much like Louis. That's because he had nothing left.

Willard retired in his corner, Holyfield was stopped by the referee, Frazier was beaten down and didn't know where he was, Ruddock was the victim of an early stoppage, Golota was disqualified for low blows, Moore went down from sheer exhaustion. I don't see your point bringing up these fights.

All these lads had nothing left and still came out and took their beating like a man, and some were ko'd but weren't affraid of it. These are real warriors unlike Gay Robinson who quit on his stool and has every excuse made for him by his fanboys like you. Now you're probably going to do the same to these fights I mentioned, and try to discredit them in any way you can, because that's what a fookin tosser you are mate.


Robinson was stopped because he was in no condition to continue.
Louis took a 12 round beating until finally going down in the 12th round.

You can argue that they "quit" all you want but in the end the only one you might be convincing is your own self, and I doubt even that.

I've brought up the facts about the condition Robinson was in, examined by doctors, observed by ringside viewers and boxing experts.

And as for this classic thunderdome thread where I owned you and you quit like Gay:luvbed:
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=285963&page=9
There were earlier times when me or you didn't respond for a day or so. Yet ONE time I respond only 2 days later this time, you act like it didn't catch your mind? It was on the first page of the thunderdome for nearly a week, mate. A loser like you who spends hours upon hours of researching threads, topics, flame wars, etc wouldn't even peek once? Especially after a flame war that lasted for days?
Don't give me those excuses you wanker. You quit in that thread. Just like you're already quitting here.
You ignored when I called you out on admitting a flaw about SGR.
You ignored all the things I mentioned about the possibility that Louis did quit.
You ignored the Lewis-Tyson example.
You ignored the thunderdome issue
You ignored the Margarito-Mosley example just like you will discredit all the other fights I mentioned.

De Ja Vu mate.

You ignore the facts I present and only offer your ignorant, baseless opinions, backed up with absolutely nothing.

I responded to your claims in that thread by the way but you completely ignored them, knowing you could retort with nothing.

There's a difference between the severity of being dehydrated. Only a fool would deny this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperthermia

As I've proven previously, Robinson lost 10 pounds of weight during the fight.







Well, since you think there are so many people who label Louis a quitter, I'd like you to point out one good source where anyone (aside from you) criticizes Louis for having no heart and quitting against Schmeling. Should be easy.

At the same time I can point out to numerous sources that have no mention of Louis "quitting":

http://books.google.fi/books?id=ExgnPewr_2QC&lpg=PP1&dq=ring%20of%20hate&pg=PA83#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Louis was not able to get up, because he had been beaten down. End of story.



I'm simply pointing out your obvious hypocrisy, ignorance and bias for excusing Tyson's quitting in other fights because he continued fighting once, while calling Louis and Robinson cowards even though they showed heart in numerous fights.

How much did 45 year old Ray Robinson have left as a fighter when he kept getting up against 20 year younger opposition and went the distance everytime? How much did Joe Louis have left when he fought Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles and Rocky Marciano? Did he ever show any quit in those fights?

You bringing up the Tyson-Lewis fight is funny by the way because Tyson was still conscious, although beaten down, yet he took the 10 count much like Louis. That's because he had nothing left.

Willard retired in his corner, Holyfield was stopped by the referee, Frazier was beaten down and didn't know where he was, Ruddock was the victim of an early stoppage, Golota was disqualified for low blows, Moore went down from sheer exhaustion. I don't see your point bringing up these fights.



Robinson was stopped because he was in no condition to continue.
Louis took a 12 round beating until finally going down in the 12th round.

You can argue that they "quit" all you want but in the end the only one you might be convincing is your own self, and I doubt even that.

I've brought up the facts about the condition Robinson was in, examined by doctors, observed by ringside viewers and boxing experts.



You ignore the facts I present and only offer your ignorant, baseless opinions, backed up with absolutely nothing.

I responded to your claims in that thread by the way but you completely ignored them, knowing you could retort with nothing.

Joe Frazier lost 15 pounds in his 1st fight with Muhammad Ali.

Joe Frazier lost 15 pounds in his 1st fight with Muhammad Ali.

Can't say I've ever heard of that before. Frazier would have then weighed 190 lbs, a dangerously low weight for him considering he was never much lower than 200 lbs.

Wow, over a stone is a ridiculous amount to lose over a fifteen round fight. I've lost close on half a stone on some of my runs and I'm closer to the light middle mark. It is possible......I guess for a heavyweight, but quite suprising!

Wow, over a stone is a ridiculous amount to lose over a fifteen round fight. I've lost close on half a stone on some of my runs and I'm closer to the light middle mark. It is possible......I guess for a heavyweight, but quite suprising!

i remember reading in Evander's book "becoming Holyfield" that he lost like 14 lbs (not sure on the exact amount) during the 1st Qawi fight

Joe Frazier lost 15 pounds in his 1st fight with Muhammad Ali.

Yes but Robinson was 158 for his fight with Maxim whereas Joe was 205 vs Ali, Robinson would have been more severely affected due to his smaller size.

There's a difference between the severity of being dehydrated. Only a fool would deny this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperthermia

As I've proven previously, Robinson lost 10 pounds of weight during the fight.







Well, since you think there are so many people who label Louis a quitter, I'd like you to point out one good source where anyone (aside from you) criticizes Louis for having no heart and quitting against Schmeling. Should be easy.

At the same time I can point out to numerous sources that have no mention of Louis "quitting":

http://books.google.fi/books?id=ExgnPewr_2QC&lpg=PP1&dq=ring%20of%20hate&pg=PA83#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Louis was not able to get up, because he had been beaten down. End of story.



I'm simply pointing out your obvious hypocrisy, ignorance and bias for excusing Tyson's quitting in other fights because he continued fighting once, while calling Louis and Robinson cowards even though they showed heart in numerous fights.

How much did 45 year old Ray Robinson have left as a fighter when he kept getting up against 20 year younger opposition and went the distance everytime? How much did Joe Louis have left when he fought Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles and Rocky Marciano? Did he ever show any quit in those fights?

You bringing up the Tyson-Lewis fight is funny by the way because Tyson was still conscious, although beaten down, yet he took the 10 count much like Louis. That's because he had nothing left.

Willard retired in his corner, Holyfield was stopped by the referee, Frazier was beaten down and didn't know where he was, Ruddock was the victim of an early stoppage, Golota was disqualified for low blows, Moore went down from sheer exhaustion. I don't see your point bringing up these fights.



Robinson was stopped because he was in no condition to continue.
Louis took a 12 round beating until finally going down in the 12th round.

You can argue that they "quit" all you want but in the end the only one you might be convincing is your own self, and I doubt even that.

I've brought up the facts about the condition Robinson was in, examined by doctors, observed by ringside viewers and boxing experts.



You ignore the facts I present and only offer your ignorant, baseless opinions, backed up with absolutely nothing.

I responded to your claims in that thread by the way but you completely ignored them, knowing you could retort with nothing.

You keep trying to make SGR a special case when he's not. Many a fighters have lost weight during a fights, fought in extreme heat, were in danger etc. And he has no one but himself to blame for that. Hell I've seen warriors fight on with bloodclots in their brain. Robinson may have shown heart in other fights, but he is not on the level of an Ali, Marciano, Frazier etc when it comes to heart. He QUIT, and you need to deal with that, mate.

And I was talking about posters on this site since I've been here far longer than you have. If you dig deep enough you'll actually find objective people unlike retards like you who's close mindedness and bias are so severe that they should be ignored more often than not. I gave you all the argument as to why Louis quit and this is maybe the fourth time you ignored it. You just say "no he was beaten" and then act like it's all done. That only proves ME right lad.

And now fourth time you ignored Lewis-Tyson. And you completely missed the point on all those fights and did exactly what I predicted you to do. Thanks for proving me right yet again mate. The point is that those fighters kept coming out in the next round to actually FINISH the fight unlike your Salty hero who put on a crappy acting performance.

You keep talking like I ignored your facts when you're the one ignoring just about every single argument I present. That's the obvious hypocrite in you lad. I don't think I've ever denied Salty Gay was having a hard time in there with Maxim. Hell this is boxing, and the reason I DON'T excuse him for it is because i'm not a moron like you who would suck his wanker the moment I see him, because I realise it was his OWN fault for being in that condition. A moron like Gay who doesn't drink anything before a fight deserves no apologists like you. Meanwhile I see Frazier-Ali fights, Holy-Bowe, Tyson-Ruddock etc etc and I see warriors with no excuses. The fact that you spend 99% of your time defending Gay's retarded mistakes and not acknowledging that it was his OWN fault shows who the real fool is.

And no you did not respond to me in that thunderdome thread. I must have asked you 15 times to prove to me that I was some guy's alt, remember? When I got several alt experts in there that all agreed with ME, you quickly shut your filthy mouth about it and never dared to accuse me again. You got owned, cunt.

You keep trying to make SGR a special case when he's not. Many a fighters have lost weight during a fights, fought in extreme heat, were in danger etc. And he has no one but himself to blame for that. Hell I've seen warriors fight on with bloodclots in their brain. Robinson may have shown heart in other fights, but he is not on the level of an Ali, Marciano, Frazier etc when it comes to heart. He QUIT, and you need to deal with that, mate

You still haven't proven that he actually quit. It's about the same as "princemanspoper" saying that Frazier quit against Ali, it's only his opinion which has no real facts to back them up. Both fights were stopped due to the fighters being unable to continue.

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6:25

And I was talking about posters on this site since I've been here far longer than you have. If you dig deep enough you'll actually find objective people unlike retards like you who's close mindedness and bias are so severe that they should be ignored more often than not. I gave you all the argument as to why Louis quit and this is maybe the fourth time you ignored it. You just say "no he was beaten" and then act like it's all done. That only proves ME right lad.

As I said, bring up one example of anyone other than you stating that Louis quit and I might believe you.

Here's one post I found from way back:

WOW, you wanna talk heart?? Louis got dropped twice in one round after his prime from Walcott and came back and won the fight. Foreman got knocked down twice by Lyle and came back and knocked him out. Ali got the **** knocked out of him by Frazier and shot him in no less than 4 seconds. Frazier was getting hit by arguably the most powerful punches ever in boxing from Foreman, but he shot up everytime and was probably willing to die that night before he lost. Ali has been knocked down a few other times and has come back and won the fight. Compared to these, getting up and just getting knocked out later is nothing.

Tyson got PUSHED down by a fighter he could have easily have beaten, but he quit. In the Lewis fight, he doesn't even get knocked down, he just bends his knees down low to avoid further punishment. You wanna talk heart, ****ing Tyson tried to end a fight by biting the **** out off Holyfield's ear to end the fight before he got the **** knocked out of him.

Here's more:

Wait a second here...just on the last page weren't you saying that there in "no evidence suggesting he was going to quit"?

"Cut my gloves off. I can't see. We're going home." Cassius Clay yelled - page 194 of Angelo Dundee's 'I Only Talk Winning'.

"Clay didn't want to come out for the round at all. He told me later he was at the door of the Near Room--the place with the trombone-playing alligators and the screaming snakes. He said that his eyes hurt so much from whatever it was in them that he told Dundee to "cut the gloves off"." - page 104 of Plimpton's 'Shadow Box'.

What YOU don't get is that there is in fact very clear "evidence suggesting he was going to quit", including the words of both his cornerman and Ali himself. And both sources I cited up there describe how Dundee basically had to shove Ali back in the ring at the beginning of the fifth round..."I shoved Cassius forward into the ring" (Dundee says after describing a brief argument he had with Ali in the corner) and "Dundee finally got his fighter moving, pushing him toward the center of the ring" (Plimpton).

I didn't come into this discussion stating Ali quit, lacked heart or anything like that...I only came in when you made that "no evidence suggesting" comment.


And now fourth time you ignored Lewis-Tyson. And you completely missed the point on all those fights and did exactly what I predicted you to do. Thanks for proving me right yet again mate. The point is that those fighters kept coming out in the next round to actually FINISH the fight unlike your Salty hero who put on a crappy acting performance.

So did Joe Louis.

You're calling what Robinson did an act? Ringside doctors, viewers, experts and officials all disagree with you. I'm afraid you're on your own with that.

You keep talking like I ignored your facts when you're the one ignoring just about every single argument I present. That's the obvious hypocrite in you lad. I don't think I've ever denied Salty Gay was having a hard time in there with Maxim. Hell this is boxing, and the reason I DON'T excuse him for it is because i'm not a moron like you who would suck his wanker the moment I see him, because I realise it was his OWN fault for being in that condition. A moron like Gay who doesn't drink anything before a fight deserves no apologists like you. Meanwhile I see Frazier-Ali fights, Holy-Bowe, Tyson-Ruddock etc etc and I see warriors with no excuses. The fact that you spend 99% of your time defending Gay's retarded mistakes and not acknowledging that it was his OWN fault shows who the real fool is.


My point is not that he was or wasn't a moron, my point is that he wasn't a quitter nor a coward for what happened to him in the Maxim fight. I'd agree if you said that him being dehydrated and being unprepared for the conditions he was about to fight under were mostly his own fault.

That's not what we are arguing about however.

And no you did not respond to me in that thunderdome thread. I must have asked you 15 times to prove to me that I was some guy's alt, remember? When I got several alt experts in there that all agreed with ME, you quickly shut your filthy mouth about it and never dared to accuse me again. You got owned, cunt.

You chose not to respond to this:


As I said, you posted several days after my initial response which is why I missed your post. Anyway, it doesn't seem like there's anything worth responding for which everyone can see for themselves.

No factual response when I brought up facts about Ray Robinson's fight against Maxim.

Agreeing that the Walcott knockdown was legit and trying to act like you were just joking.

Saying I quit in an argument you, when I didn't.

Putting down great fighters by calling them clowns, bums, bumbeaters, gays, chickens and flinging personal insults directed at me left and right, the usual stuff from you to which I've responded more than enough times.

What I want to know is why does Slimey Limey hate Ray Robinson so much? Kind of pathetic really, and it's getting very tired and boring

What I want to know is why does Slimey Limey hate Ray Robinson so much? Kind of pathetic really, and it's getting very tired and boring

He's just a scuzzy little troll who just gets his little two incher off on pissing people off. He locks onto the fighters that people admire and tries to rip them down.....he does the same thing under Princepoophead except he rips Frazier under that name. I ignored the turd a long time ago.

Poet

He's just a scuzzy little troll who just gets his little two incher off on pissing people off. He locks onto the fighters that people admire and tries to rip them down.....he does the same thing under Princepoophead except he rips Frazier under that name. I ignored the turd a long time ago.

Poet

And what do you think you're doing posting on one of my threads? Well it will be the last time. BYE Toffe Teeth :wave:

He's just a scuzzy little troll who just gets his little two incher off on pissing people off. He locks onto the fighters that people admire and tries to rip them down.....he does the same thing under Princepoophead except he rips Frazier under that name. I ignored the turd a long time ago.

Poet

Um, Yes and you have still failed to provide any evidence linking me with slimey limey or any other user account on this forum as a possible alt.Give it up poet, You're a paranoid delusional old man who cannot take criticism of your favourite fighters yet you have no problem doing the exact same thing to other particular fighters

He's just a scuzzy little troll who just gets his little two incher off on pissing people off. He locks onto the fighters that people admire and tries to rip them down.....he does the same thing under Princepoophead except he rips Frazier under that name. I ignored the turd a long time ago.

Poet

i know this is a very cliched thing to say...but the guy must have no life...

You still haven't proven that he actually quit. It's about the same as "princemanspoper" saying that Frazier quit against Ali, it's only his opinion which has no real facts to back them up. Both fights were stopped due to the fighters being unable to continue.

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6:25



As I said, bring up one example of anyone other than you stating that Louis quit and I might believe you.

Here's one post I found from way back:



Here's more:





So did Joe Louis.

You're calling what Robinson did an act? Ringside doctors, viewers, experts and officials all disagree with you. I'm afraid you're on your own with that.



My point is not that he was or wasn't a moron, my point is that he wasn't a quitter nor a coward for what happened to him in the Maxim fight. I'd agree if you said that him being dehydrated and being unprepared for the conditions he was about to fight under were mostly his own fault.

That's not what we are arguing about however.



You chose not to respond to this:

You don't "prove" a fighter quits. Almost all the cases of fighters quitting are opinions. It doesn't take a blind retard to see that Liston quit, Tyson quit, Duran quit etc. For every case there are excuses, and SGR and Louis are no diffirent seeing as how you've made every excuse in the book for these lads. You're basicely trying to force me to agree with your opinion which doesn't work, mate. I'd rather agree with a 90 year old who has only heard their fights on the radio back in his time than a biased, bitter, close minded idiot such as you.

I should bring an example of people saying Louis quit? See that's where you're mistaking me for being an internet loser like you that spends hours upon hours upon hours searching threads, posts etc. You ever notice I only reply to you whenever I feel like it? I do whatever I want, cunt, and doing a bunch of childish homework just to please you is a no no for me. The point is that Louis quit, period.

Yes I'm saying Salty Gay Robinson put on an act, I said that since the beginning. Keep up the pace lad. He was trying to find a way out. That's how I see it.

And that's not the point I was tring to get out of you, mate. I'm talking about something else here you broken English having wanker. The fact that you 1-Never actually critisize SGR for making these absolutely retarded mistakes which you claim cost him the match in the long run and 2- Only are interested in having people pity the cunt and make excuses for him and 3- Take all the credit away from Maxim when it was HE that stopped Salty GAY and was going to KO him. Get that through your thick skull. This is not about you believing he was a coward or not, that´s another thing.

And I did respond to that post.
1- There was only a 1 day diffirence between the last post and all the other posts we were having back and forth. You or me would often respond after 1 day so this was barely any diffirent. Plus like I said, that thread was on top of the thunderdome for like a week so it was impossible for an obsessed loser with so time on his hands like you to have missed it. THAT is what you choose not to respond to every time I have to repeat this to you.
2-I already told you that it's almost always not possible to "post facts" about a fighter actually quitting on his own will. The fact that I believe GAY quit obviously hurts your feelings so much since you won't let it go.
3-Yes you did quit in that argument obviously since you ran away from that thread. Hurts doesn't it mate? You thought everyone would forget about that thread, didn't you?:luvbed:
4-Aww what's the matter mate, you can't take it?:bottle:

i know this is a very cliched thing to say...but the guy must have no life...

Couldn't have thought of anything more original innit, stickey mickey malone or Poet or whoever you are?:luvbed:

And what do you think you're doing posting on one of my threads? Well it will be the last time. BYE Toffe Teeth :wave:

Um, Yes and you have still failed to provide any evidence linking me with slimey limey or any other user account on this forum as a possible alt.Give it up poet, You're a paranoid delusional old man who cannot take criticism of your favourite fighters yet you have no problem doing the exact same thing to other particular fighters

Lads, this is the though guy that shows up everytime to give his cheerleading 2 cents in every thread.

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You don't "prove" a fighter quits. Almost all the cases of fighters quitting are opinions. It doesn't take a blind retard to see that Liston quit, Tyson quit, Duran quit etc. For every case there are excuses, and SGR and Louis are no diffirent seeing as how you've made every excuse in the book for these lads. You're basicely trying to force me to agree with your opinion which doesn't work, mate. I'd rather agree with a 90 year old who has only heard their fights on the radio back in his time than a biased, bitter, close minded idiot such as you.

Obviously. But those are very obvious "quitjobs". Louis on the other hand was knocked down and out after a twelve round beating while Robinson had to be carried out after suffering from heat exhaustion.

I'm not going to force you to agree with me. But do think twice before calling either of them quitters or cowards for what they've done in the boxing ring, because both of them have shown trendemous heart more than once.


I should bring an example of people saying Louis quit? See that's where you're mistaking me for being an internet loser like you that spends hours upon hours upon hours searching threads, posts etc. You ever notice I only reply to you whenever I feel like it? I do whatever I want, cunt, and doing a bunch of childish homework just to please you is a no no for me. The point is that Louis quit, period.

That's right. You've never been one to actually back your opinions up with facts. Sorry for requesting such an impossible feat.


Yes I'm saying Salty Gay Robinson put on an act, I said that since the beginning. Keep up the pace lad. He was trying to find a way out. That's how I see it.

That's your opinion indeed.

Doctors, ringside viewers, boxing experts and officials saying Robinson was severely dehydrated and in no condition to continue = a fact.

And that's not the point I was tring to get out of you, mate. I'm talking about something else here you broken English having wanker. The fact that you 1-Never actually critisize SGR for making these absolutely retarded mistakes which you claim cost him the match in the long run and 2- Only are interested in having people pity the cunt and make excuses for him and 3- Take all the credit away from Maxim when it was HE that stopped Salty GAY and was going to KO him. Get that through your thick skull. This is not about you believing he was a coward or not, that´s another thing.

Again I said that Robinson not being prepared for the extreme conditions he was about to fight under was not the smartest move by him and one that he should not be excused for. If you had said that Robinson shouldn't be excused for losing because of this then I'd be inclined to agree. But you called him a coward.

Couldn't have thought of anything more original innit, stickey mickey malone or Poet or whoever you are?:luvbed:

thats why i said it was a cliched thing to say, but obviously a very true statement

I should bring an example of people saying Louis quit? See that's where you're mistaking me for being an internet loser like you that spends hours upon hours upon hours searching threads, posts etc. You ever notice I only reply to you whenever I feel like it? I do whatever I want, cunt, and doing a bunch of childish homework just to please you is a no no for me. The point is that Louis quit, period.

So no proof or sources or anything other than a rant then?


Yes I'm saying Salty Gay Robinson put on an act, I said that since the beginning. Keep up the pace lad. He was trying to find a way out. That's how I see it.

And you are medically trained to diagnose that and refute the evidence of the doctors?
Why would he want a way out he was winning the fight handily?
Maxim didn't get near him until he was in obvious distress not caused by Maxim.

I'm talking about something else here you broken English having wanker.

Sorry could you explain English having wanker? I know how important English and its grammer is to you so could you clarify. He has English means he speaks English?

Take all the credit away from Maxim when it was HE that stopped Salty GAY and was going to KO him.

Maxim the well known KO artist? Maxim deserves credit for outlasting SRR and preparing himself better for the fight for sure the rest is nonsense.

So would you say Gerald McClellan quit against Benn then? Would you call that cowardice?

Rant as much as you like GreatA has put forward his case with aboundant evidence you have just ranted. I respect GreatA as a knowlegable poster who makes a huge contribution to these forums. I might not agree with all of his opinions but I have found you can debate your disagreements with him courteously. If you learn some manners and maybe to stop showhorning your hate for Louis and Robinson into every unrelated forum then you might enjoy some of the respect GreatA enjoys

Obviously. But those are very obvious "quitjobs". Louis on the other hand was knocked down and out after a twelve round beating while Robinson had to be carried out after suffering from heat exhaustion.

I'm not going to force you to agree with me. But do think twice before calling either of them quitters or cowards for what they've done in the boxing ring, because both of them have shown trendemous heart more than once.



That's right. You've never been one to actually back your opinions up with facts. Sorry for requesting such an impossible feat.



That's your opinion indeed.

Doctors, ringside viewers, boxing experts and officials saying Robinson was severely dehydrated and in no condition to continue = a fact.



Again I said that Robinson not being prepared for the extreme conditions he was about to fight under was not the smartest move by him and one that he should not be excused for. If you had said that Robinson shouldn't be excused for losing because of this then I'd be inclined to agree. But you called him a coward.

Obviously I will call them quitters or cowards for something they've done(except for when they are old and such, like I will excuse Tyson for his quitting). And obviously I won't ignore the times they have shown heart either, but this is about wether or not they are. It started because some wanker tries to imply Ali had a bit of quitter in him, so I respond that their hero's actually quit unlike Ali. SGR actually quit, there is no buts of ifs here. If you try to use the argument that he didn't take care of himself before the fight, like MAXIM did since he had a brain, then it's even worse imo. Either way he deserves criticsm, so he deserved everything I called him. With Louis it's just so fookin obvious that he did not even try to get up at the end because he was discouraged. And the fact that you ignore the things I've pointed out gives my accusation even more ground. Like I said, i'm not the type of person to give a ****load of effort to find a post like you do, mate. But it's irrelevant wether there are others who agree with me or not. This is a pro Louis forum so it is expected.

And GJC, you did a no mas the last time we debated so it's best you go cheerleading the way Poet does, before I accept your challenge and make you shut your mouth yet again, mate. You're too easy.

And GJC, you did a no mas the last time we debated so it's best you go cheerleading the way Poet does, before I accept your challenge and make you shut your mouth yet again, mate. You're too easy.

Err it didn't really happen did it slimey only in your imagination, but hey post the link and let everyone share your triumph LOL. Btw when you talk drival and someone corrects you with facts and you keep repeating it and they reply with more facts when this goes on and on and eventually they stop replying it doesn't mean you've won LOL. Mind you probably think your winning this debate with greatA. next alt you create call it tex Cobb be very apt, durable,amusing but adds nothing to boxing.

Err it didn't really happen did it slimey only in your imagination, but hey post the link and let everyone share your triumph LOL. Btw when you talk drival and someone corrects you with facts and you keep repeating it and they reply with more facts when this goes on and on and eventually they stop replying it doesn't mean you've won LOL. Mind you probably think your winning this debate with greatA. next alt you create call it tex Cobb be very apt, durable,amusing but adds nothing to boxing.

:rofl::rofl: Funny **** my friend!! :rofl::rofl:

next alt you create call it tex Cobb be very apt, durable,amusing but adds nothing to boxing.

Bashing fighters now are we? What great respect you and your other cronies have for men who risk their health on the line for the viewing of spoilt,pampered brats like you

You are not a boxing fan but a troll, And a weak one at that

Obviously I will call them quitters or cowards for something they've done(except for when they are old and such, like I will excuse Tyson for his quitting). And obviously I won't ignore the times they have shown heart either, but this is about wether or not they are. It started because some wanker tries to imply Ali had a bit of quitter in him, so I respond that their hero's actually quit unlike Ali. SGR actually quit, there is no buts of ifs here. If you try to use the argument that he didn't take care of himself before the fight, like MAXIM did since he had a brain, then it's even worse imo. Either way he deserves criticsm, so he deserved everything I called him. With Louis it's just so fookin obvious that he did not even try to get up at the end because he was discouraged. And the fact that you ignore the things I've pointed out gives my accusation even more ground. Like I said, i'm not the type of person to give a ****load of effort to find a post like you do, mate. But it's irrelevant wether there are others who agree with me or not. This is a pro Louis forum so it is expected.

And GJC, you did a no mas the last time we debated so it's best you go cheerleading the way Poet does, before I accept your challenge and make you shut your mouth yet again, mate. You're too easy.

So by that logic, even if Ray did actually quit (which he didnt) wouldn't you give him a pass seeing as he was past his prime age/weight and weighed in as a middleweight who had once been a lightweight, fighting a light heavyweight ?

Bashing fighters now are we? What great respect you and your other cronies have for men who risk their health on the line for the viewing of spoilt,pampered brats like you

You are not a boxing fan but a troll, And a weak one at that

and like you have never done that before! :rofl:

lmfao, the idiocy.....

Bashing fighters now are we? What great respect you and your other cronies have for men who risk their health on the line for the viewing of spoilt,pampered brats like you

You are not a boxing fan but a troll, And a weak one at that
2 words for you Tex, Joe Frazier. Guess your replying because:
A) you can't keep track of who you are meant to sign on as, or
B) slimey has been chucked off the computer by the warden of the home and you have your half hour computer time and are stepping in, or
C) slimey is looking for when he "made me shut up" with his knowledge and razor sharp debating skills.
You could do him a favour and tell him to stop looking, it didn't happen

Bashing fighters now are we? What great respect you and your other cronies have for men who risk their health on the line for the viewing of spoilt,pampered brats like you

You are not a boxing fan but a troll, And a weak one at that
2 words for you Tex, Joe Frazier. Guess your replying because:
A) you can't keep track of who you are meant to sign on as, or
B) slimey has been chucked off the computer by the warden of the home and you have your half hour computer time and are stepping in, or
C) slimey is looking for when he "made me shut up" with his knowledge and razor sharp debating skills.
You could do him a favour and tell him to stop looking, it didn't happen