The Roberto Duran of the 1st fight with SRL at welterweight vs SRR at welterweight who was 126-1?

I believe that was Roberto Duran's greatest fight of his career.

The Duuuuuran of that fight vs SRR at welterweight?

Roberto Duran was alot harder to hit than most people think.SRL said so himself.

That being the case,and allowing Duran to put pressure on SRR I believe it would be a good fight.I believe Duran would be able to go to the body,and thus enable him to go to the head as well.Of course SRR would also be going to both the head and body.But Duran is as tough as they come.I see Duran going the distance,and putting up a better fight than most people think.

I see SRR winning a UD 8-6-1,9-6,and 9-6.

Any thoughts?

I'll go with Ray, I think that he would have the discipline to avoid fighting the fight that Leonard did. Leonard was angered at Duran's insults to his wife and simply couldn't believe that a lightweight coming up to welterweight could possibly be as strong as himself. Thats why he fought Duran toe to toe, it was a close fight but Duran deserved it.

Robinson would start on his bike hitting and moving the moment he realised that he couldn't out muscle Duran. I doubt we'd see a 'no mas' as in Leonard 2 but I've got a feeling Robinson would clinch the decision by two or three rounds. Tough fight though, I rate Duran higher than La Motta.

I'll go with Ray, I think that he would have the discipline to avoid fighting the fight that Leonard did. Leonard was angered at Duran's insults to his wife and simply couldn't believe that a lightweight coming up to welterweight could possibly be as strong as himself. Thats why he fought Duran toe to toe, it was a close fight but Duran deserved it.

Robinson would start on his bike hitting and moving the moment he realised that he couldn't out muscle Duran. I doubt we'd see a 'no mas' as in Leonard 2 but I've got a feeling Robinson would clinch the decision by two or three rounds. Tough fight though, I rate Duran higher than La Motta.

Yeah,i remember Duran giving Ray's wife the finger and cussing her out.

Duran beat Carlos Palimino at welterweight before taking on SRL.He was no push over.

I don't believe it mattered how SRL fought Duran the 1st time.Duran wanted him BAD!! Duran just won the biggest fight of his life and.....It would take me to long to type everything i want to say about Duran,and THE 2ND FIGHT.I'm a very slow typer.I will try to post more on this later.

BTW- I rate Duran the 2nd best fighter of all-time pound for pound

I don't believe it mattered how SRL fought Duran the 1st time.Duran wanted him BAD!! Duran just won the biggest fight of his life and.....It would take me to long to type everything i want to say about Duran,and THE 2ND FIGHT.I'm a very slow typer.I will try to post more on this later.

BTW- I rate Duran the 2nd best fighter of all-time pound for pound

Of course it matters. He did better in the fight when he was on the balls of his feet. He got in trouble when he was flat footed. And I still had Leonard winning that fight despite the verdict. Some of the scores of that fight honestly gave Duran every remotely close round. There were quite a few of those... And since this was a topic a couple days ago, let's not forget Panama Lewis was in that corner that night.

Rating Duran #2 p4p is extreme. He stopped being a disciplined fighter after he left Lightweight. Ie, he was undisciplined most of his career, and it showed in the ring. His shortcomings cannot be over looked.

I'll go with Ray, I think that he would have the discipline to avoid fighting the fight that Leonard did. Leonard was angered at Duran's insults to his wife and simply couldn't believe that a lightweight coming up to welterweight could possibly be as strong as himself. Thats why he fought Duran toe to toe, it was a close fight but Duran deserved it.

Robinson would start on his bike hitting and moving the moment he realised that he couldn't out muscle Duran. I doubt we'd see a 'no mas' as in Leonard 2 but I've got a feeling Robinson would clinch the decision by two or three rounds. Tough fight though, I rate Duran higher than La Motta.

I do as well but LaMotta at 160 (or 170 as he came in at to his fights) may be a tougher task for Robinson than Duran at 147. LaMotta was a good inside technician himself, and absolutely relentless in his attack, he also had around 20 lbs on Robinson by fight time.

I doubt we would see a "no mas" because Robinson would come to fight as he always did. He could go to war but always had the fight in control under any circumstances.

"Bobo" Olson was another good inside fighter but Robinson seemed to handle him pretty well even in their toughest fight (the rematch):

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Of course there was Fritzie Zivic who knew all the tricks, but Zivic went onto say that everything he ever did, Robinson did better.

Armstrong was not as shot as he is made out to have been in my view. He was of course nowhere near the Armstrong of old, but he was still the number 1 ranked WW contender with recent wins over Sammy Angott, Fritzie Zivic, Willie Joyce, Juan Zurita and Tippy Larkin.

Sammy Angott by the way was yet another great spoiler/inside fighter. Robinson dominated him in three fights.

Of course it matters. He did better in the fight when he was on the balls of his feet. He got in trouble when he was flat footed. And I still had Leonard winning that fight despite the verdict. Some of the scores of that fight honestly gave Duran every remotely close round. There were quite a few of those... And since this was a topic a couple days ago, let's not forget Panama Lewis was in that corner that night.

Rating Duran #2 p4p is extreme. He stopped being a disciplined fighter after he left Lightweight. Ie, he was undisciplined most of his career, and it showed in the ring. His shortcomings cannot be over looked.

ray arcel was the main man in the corner tho, he wouldent have allowed panama to cheat, becaz arcel was a good man who had been training champion fighters 30 years pryor to duran.

Duran fought a great fight against Leonard but Robinson was the greatest welter bar none. Now duran against any lightweight is a conversation.

Didn't roberto duran get his backside handed to him by a welterweight in journeyman crackhead kirkland laing? I seem to recall such a bout but I may have just dreamt of such a spectacle,Or does roberto and his fans have an excuse for that night?

And I still had Leonard winning that fight despite the verdict.

Spoken like a true dunce.Next time you take a bath(first time for everything) take the toaster with you.


Now duran against any lightweight is a conversation.

I read on eas*s*deb*xing that Jose Louis Castillo would stop a prime duran.Is this true?

Spoken like a true dunce.Next time you take a bath(first time for everything) take the toaster with you.

If you don't think that fight was close, you're the dunce. Plenty of people thought Leonard won. I have my scorecard here:

*Round 1: 10 – 10 Even
Not much to choose from this round. No one really deserved to win it. Leonard didn't do much, and Duran was mostly ineffective with what he did.

Round 2: 9 – 10 Duran
Big round for Duran, he buckles Leonard early and possibly hurts him once more later in the round. Leonard has his moments near the end, but didn't do enough.

Round 3: 9 – 10 Duran
Duran continues to beat Leonard's ass again this round, hurting him in the early going.

*Round 4: 9 – 10 Duran
Once again, early in the round Leonard is caught and hurt by Duran's big right hand. That's 3 rounds in a row that he hasn't been able to avoid it, not looking good for Leonard at all. Afterwards the two exchange good body work back and forth, edge Leonard. And at the end of the round, there are some flurries and big shots landed by both fighters. Leonard appeared to get the best of it here as well (barely). So, what started as a big round for Duran, ended up pretty damn close. ...But Duran still won.

Round 5: 10 – 9 Leonard
Even round until the end, where Leonard finally put a meaningful combination together that actually made Duran back up a little.

Round 6: 10 – 9 Leonard
Leonard tied Duran up pretty well the entire round, and put together some bull**** shoe shining punches along with a couple decent hooks that gave him this round clearly.

*Round 7: 10 – 9 Leonard
Leonard continues his tactics from the last round, but Duran is given more freedom to work in this round, most notably the second half. First half of the round was Leonard's, second half even.

*Round 8: 9 – 10 Duran
Close round. When Leonard uses his jab, he's in control and winning the round. Problem is, he isn't consistent. And when he stops using it, Duran closes the distance and lands his big bombs. Leonard is usually even with Duran on the inside, up until the end of the round. At the end, Duran clearly got the harder punches in (most notably that sucker right hand).

Round 9: 9 – 10 Duran
Leonard took a lot of this round off, and Duran just outworked him. Duran did a very job of slipping underneath of Leonard's punches this round.

Round 10: 10 – 9 Leonard
Competitive but clear round for Leonard. He utilized his boxing ability well and managed to not get caught with any huge punches, aside from a couple decent body shots.

Round 11: 10 – 9 Leonard
This round was all combinations. Aside from body positioning and head movement, defense was pretty much out the window. Leonard won it because he was busier.

*Round 12: 10 – 10 Even
I saw nothing to indicate either fighter really won this round.

*Round 13: 9 – 10 Duran
Wow. Not much in the first half of the round aside from a big left hook by Duran, but the second half? Bomb, after bomb, after bomb, after bomb. Leonard took a terrible amount of punishment in the second half of this round despite the back and forth action, YET, Leonard managed to finish stronger and even hurt Duran. But, it wasn't enough to steal the round. I'm actually rather baffled at how Leonard seemed to walk through all the big punches Duran hit him with this round.

Round 14: 10 – 9 Leonard
Leonard's determination from the end of the last round continued over into this one. Duran also seemingly took his foot off the gas this round. In response, Leonard put his signature on the round via “his” famous bolo punch.

Round 15: 10 – 9 Leonard
Um, Duran apparently thought he was way ahead in this round, because he decided he didn't have to through any punches. Leonard won the round on activity alone.


Final Score: 7 – 6 – 2 Leonard (144 – 143)


Score Variances:
Scoring all the starred rounds to fighter 1: 12 – 3 Leonard
Scoring all the starred rounds even: 6 – 3 – 6 Leonard
Scoring all the starred rounds to fighter 2: 6 – 9 Duran

Duran fought a great fight against Leonard but Robinson was the greatest welter bar none. Now duran against any lightweight is a conversation.

Greatest welter doesn't necessarily mean he annihilates every other one in history. Duran was highly competitive with one of the top 3 greatest MWs in history. Ray would definitely be the fav, but I see Duran making it a fight.

Greatest welter doesn't necessarily mean he annihilates every other one in history. Duran was highly competitive with one of the top 3 greatest MWs in history. Ray would definitely be the fav, but I see Duran making it a fight.

Hagler gave him too much respect in that fight. Hagler was completely unimpressed by Duran at the finish. You kinda had to piss Hagler off to make him fight... And by piss him off I mean do damage to him.

Roberto Duran was alot harder to hit than most people think.SRL said so himself.

That being the case,and allowing Duran to put pressure on SRR I believe it would be a good fight.I believe Duran would be able to go to the body,and thus enable him to go to the head as well.Of course SRR would also be going to both the head and body.But Duran is as tough as they come.I see Duran going the distance,and putting up a better fight than most people think.

I see SRR winning a UD 8-6-1,9-6,and 9-6.

Any thoughts?

Every body that fought him said he was hard to hit, he moved his head a lot and used fients constantly.

This is a very hard fight to pick. we saw what a similar size Lamotta was capable of doing to SRR (Lamotta wasn't a very big guy, same reach as Duran only 5'8) Duran was very skilled and pretty quick at 147. duran would have given Robinson fits, IMO if he beat Leonard there is a good chance he'd beat Robinson to.

Very hard to choose but I'm going with Duran (I'm partly biased).

The Roberto Duran of the 1st fight with SRL at welterweight vs SRR at welterweight who was 126-1?

I believe that was Roberto Duran's greatest fight of his career.

The Duuuuuran of that fight vs SRR at welterweight?



I agree the first Leonard fight was the best of Durans career. On that particular night I would give him a chance to beat any welter in history, including Robinson.

Greatest welter doesn't necessarily mean he annihilates every other one in history. Duran was highly competitive with one of the top 3 greatest MWs in history. Ray would definitely be the fav, but I see Duran making it a fight.
Don't think Robinson would whup Duran certainly not the Duran of the Montreal fight but can't see him beating Robinson. Leonard fought Duran's fight and nearly won so assuming even that Robinson falls into Duran's trap still think he will have too much. Don't get me wrong I'm a huge Duran fan and him versus any lightweight I think he would win but not against the absolute elite welters.

Hagler gave him too much respect in that fight. Hagler was completely unimpressed by Duran at the finish. You kinda had to piss Hagler off to make him fight... And by piss him off I mean do damage to him.

I really would want to question your objectivity and neutrality.

You are obviously a Robinson nuthugger.

I really would want to question your objectivity and neutrality.

You are obviously a Robinson nuthugger.

Because of the avatar? I'm not the first guy who said Hagler gave Duran too much respect. Hell, it was in the pre-fight hype for the Hearns vs Hagler war. Has nothing to do with my liking Robinson.

Hagler gave him too much respect in that fight. Hagler was completely unimpressed by Duran at the finish. You kinda had to piss Hagler off to make him fight... And by piss him off I mean do damage to him.


I think there is an element of truth to what you are saying because Hagler did tend to throw down when he got hit, most notably when he was being put under a lot of pressure is when he got drawn him into a fight.

Vito did it in the latter rounds of the first fight and Roldan did it to imo.

But by the same token, had Hagler ever faced a fighter as good as Duran albeit smaller before that ?

I think there is an element of truth to what you are saying because Hagler did tend to throw down when he got hit, most notably when he was being put under a lot of pressure is when he got drawn him into a fight.

Vito did it in the latter rounds of the first fight and Roldan did it to imo.

But by the same token, had Hagler ever faced a fighter as good as Duran albeit smaller before that ?

Hmm, Duran definitely was the best guy he faced p4p, not just before either but in his entire career. Thing is, Duran was not a great Middleweight. He was a pretty damn good Middleweight, but not a great one. I had him losing to Barkley, and he lost to Robbie Sims. I'd go as far as to say Duran was no longer a great fighter past Welterweight. So, given that, there's a handful of guys who were equally as hard challenges for Hagler to conquer earlier in his career. The Philadelphia boys he had to fight in the beginning of his career gave him a lot of the experience he lacked from the amateurs. As a Champion, his most impressive win to me pre Hearns was Hamsho.

Hmm, Duran definitely was the best guy he faced p4p, not just before either but in his entire career. Thing is, Duran was not a great Middleweight. He was a pretty damn good Middleweight, but not a great one. I had him losing to Barkley, and he lost to Robbie Sims. I'd go as far as to say Duran was no longer a great fighter past Welterweight. So, given that, there's a handful of guys who were equally as hard challenges for Hagler to conquer earlier in his career. The Philadelphia boys he had to fight in the beginning of his career gave him a lot of the experience he lacked from the amateurs. As a Champion, his most impressive win to me pre Hearns was Hamsho.


I agree, i dont even think Duran was a great 154 pounder, he got outfoxed by Laing and Benitez and had a tough tough fight with Nino Gonzalez that was very close , he did'nt look comfortable at the weight against Nino Gonzalez or Luigi Minchillo, he had his problems with Luigi Minchillo early to, didn't Davey Moore have a limited amount of fights when Duran beat him ? Robbie Sims also beat Duran at 160 in a close fight but i do think Sims won the fight, Duran faded down the stretch.


I dont think Watts beat Hagler, he got the decision but he was hella tired at the end of the fight and Hagler was all over him.

A side not, my boy McCallum beat the **** outta Luigi Minchillo and his corner stopped the fight because he was gettin such a shellacking,

everyone who thinks size is an issue in this fight, check out bassilio whoop that ass...

and Obama, i disagree, Duran defintly won the brawl in montreal.

I agree, i dont even think Duran was a great 154 pounder, he got outfoxed by Laing and Benitez and had a tough tough fight with Nino Gonzalez that was very close , he did'nt look comfortable at the weight against Nino Gonzalez or Luigi Minchillo, he had his problems with Luigi Minchillo early to, didn't Davey Moore have a limited amount of fights when Duran beat him ? Robbie Sims also beat Duran at 160 in a close fight but i do think Sims won the fight, Duran faded down the stretch.


I dont think Watts beat Hagler, he got the decision but he was hella tired at the end of the fight and Hagler was all over him.

A side not, my boy McCallum beat the **** outta Luigi Minchillo and his corner stopped the fight because he was gettin such a shellacking,

I do wish Hagler stuck around and fought guys like McCallum. The MW division was seriously hot in the second half of the 80s:

Mike McCallum
Reggie Johnson
Sumbu Kalambay
Michael Nunn
Nigel Benn
Chris Eubank
Steve Collins
James Toney

Yet all history wants to talk about are the guys that got in the ring with Marvin Hagler. :nonono:

everyone who thinks size is an issue in this fight, check out bassilio whoop that ass...

and Obama, i disagree, Duran defintly won the brawl in montreal.

If I recall, Robinson had been out of retirement with ~150 fights under his belt and first graced the pro ring over 16 years prior. And I also recall Robinson had moved up from Lightweight himself. And I recall once more that Robinson damn near blinded the man from punches in the rematch.

I do wish Hagler stuck around and fought guys like McCallum. The MW division was seriously hot in the second half of the 80s:

Mike McCallum
Reggie Johnson
Sumbu Kalambay
Michael Nunn
Nigel Benn
Chris Eubank
Steve Collins
James Toney

Yet all history wants to talk about are the guys that got in the ring with Marvin Hagler. :nonono:



If I recall, Robinson had been out of retirement with ~150 fights under his belt and first graced the pro ring over 16 years prior. And I also recall Robinson had moved up from Lightweight himself. And I recall once more that Robinson damn near blinded the man from punches in the rematch.


oh really?...i also hear RD had to drop 40 pounds in a month to fight SRL the second fight, and was having stomach cramps. Furthermore...if thats the care, Duran got an excuse for pretty much everyone he lost to apart from De jesus.

oh really?...i also hear RD had to drop 40 pounds in a month to fight SRL the second fight, and was having stomach cramps. Furthermore...if thats the care, Duran got an excuse for pretty much everyone he lost to apart from De jesus.

Robinson was undefeated in his first two weight divisions, beating 4-5 hall of famers. Duran got nuthin on that.

I do wish Hagler stuck around and fought guys like McCallum. The MW division was seriously hot in the second half of the 80s:

Mike McCallum
Reggie Johnson
Sumbu Kalambay
Michael Nunn
Nigel Benn
Chris Eubank
Steve Collins
James Toney

Yet all history wants to talk about are the guys that got in the ring with Marvin Hagler. :nonono:



If I recall, Robinson had been out of retirement with ~150 fights under his belt and first graced the pro ring over 16 years prior. And I also recall Robinson had moved up from Lightweight himself. And I recall once more that Robinson damn near blinded the man from punches in the rematch.


Agree, i dare say Hagler would of had trouble with a few of those guys to at that stage of his career to.


Nunn was such a talented fighter but he did not have it upstairs, he looked awesome against Tate and he looked good against Roldan in stages, but against Roldan he started clowning before the job was done and this is the kind of thing that frustrated me about Nunn, he wanted to clown before the job was done, he eventually put Roldan away but it was like the Barkley fight, too much messing about and clowning instead of tending to business. I felt Nunn was lucky to get the decision over a blown up Marlon Starling (great fight), he did beat Don Curry but we know Curry was on his way down by that time and a smaller man.

I think the Toney KO was inevitable because Nunn always took his eye off the ball, shame because i liked Nunn.


I think i speak for both myself and Machine when i say that Sumbu Kalambay was an extremely underrated technician, a very slick fighter was Kalambay, McCallum could not do anything with him in their 1st fight.

McCallum = god :lol1:

[QUOTE=Dynamite Kid;5843265]I think i speak for both myself and Machine when i say that Sumbu Kalambay was an extremely underrated technician, a very slick fighter was Kalambay, McCallum could not do anything with him in their 1st fight.

Kalambay was a helluva good fighter. Its a shame most people over here only remember him for his loss to Nunn. If he had been American he would be much more highly regarded.

[QUOTE=Dynamite Kid;5843265]I think i speak for both myself and Machine when i say that Sumbu Kalambay was an extremely underrated technician, a very slick fighter was Kalambay, McCallum could not do anything with him in their 1st fight.

Kalambay was a helluva good fighter. Its a shame most people over here only remember him for his loss to Nunn. If he had been American he would be much more highly regarded.

Hell yeah.

I think Nunn landed a once in a life time counter shot against him, but it would of been interesting to see how Nunn would of dealt with him if he had not caught him cold, because it would not of surprised me if he went on to outbox Nunn.

[QUOTE=JAB5239;5843738]

Hell yeah.

I think Nunn landed a once in a life time counter shot against him, but it would of been interesting to see how Nunn would of dealt with him if he had not caught him cold, because it would not of surprised me if he went on to outbox Nunn.

At that point in their careers I would favor Nunn over Sumbu regardless. But the ko gives many people the perception that Kalambay wasn't that good, and nothing could be further from the truth.

Too bad that's the only Patrizio fight you can find on youtube...

[QUOTE=Dynamite Kid;5843836]

At that point in their careers I would favor Nunn over Sumbu regardless. But the ko gives many people the perception that Kalambay wasn't that good, and nothing could be further from the truth.

.................Agree 100% :boxing:

Too bad that's the only Patrizio fight you can find on youtube...

I could probably upload a couple of fights of his.

I could probably upload a couple of fights of his.

Machine you got the Pyatt fight or Bomber Graham fight ?

I could probably upload a couple of fights of his.

I was hoping you'd say this. ;)