According to AP

In Arizona, approximately 500 civilians have armed themselves and have annointed themselves civilian border patrol agents. Is it just me or does it sound like something really BAD is gonna come out of this?

AP Story (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=718&e=4&u=/ap/20050221/ap_on_re_us/border_minutemen)

that is going to lead to some sort of major problem down the road. Maybe even some sort of rodney king style beating im afraid or even death

or another waco kind of situation

I am somewhat familiar with this group just because the organizer has been interviewed by the talk station I listen to a couple times. He said that they know that some people may go too far and try to stop people or hurt so the group weeds out those types and doesnt let them participate. He also said that when they see people crossing they dont touch them at all. They just call the border patrol and inform them of the activity. They are just trying to send a message that our borders are wide open which they are. I think they have good intentions but I do see the potential for someone to get hurt. Hopefully that doesnt happen because it will **** up the whole "close the border" movement.

Sometimes you just gotta do what ya' gotta do.

I don't blame the folks living on the border, they shouldn't have to do the border patrols' job for them. I understand the border patrol is sadly lacking in personel, and for that reason alone I am sure they can use all the help they can get.

The number of illegal immigrants coming in daily is staggering, and it's not just Mexico that is a problem, the Canadian border is wide open as well.

Sometimes you just gotta do what ya' gotta do.

I don't blame the folks living on the border, they shouldn't have to do the border patrols' job for them. I understand the border patrol is sadly lacking in personel, and for that reason alone I am sure they can use all the help they can get.

The number of illegal immigrants coming in daily is staggering, and it's not just Mexico that is a problem, the Canadian border is wide open as well.

I don't think there are many illegal Canadian immigrants floating around.....unless you are referring to possible terrorists coming in from Canada.

those 500 "minutemen" are little *****es. Thats all i gotta say about that. Looks like its time to cross the border with a firearm. Frankly after this if your Mexican there is just no way to cross through Arizona without one. Damn idiots.

Al Quaeda is turning into the boogie man to justify all these stupid in-humane and racist acts by these bufoons who often call themselves "conservatives" or just helping the law.

****, this makes me really mad. :mad:

i'm all for it. riots, lynching, and overall ****-kickin militia anarchy = fun, fun, fun on television.

those 500 "minutemen" are little *****es. Thats all i gotta say about that. Looks like its time to cross the border with a firearm. Frankly after this if your Mexican there is just no way to cross through Arizona without one. Damn idiots.

Al Quaeda is turning into the boogie man to justify all these stupid in-humane and racist acts by these bufoons who often call themselves "conservatives" or just helping the law.

****, this makes me really mad. :mad:

You forgetting that if your Mexican you shouldnt be crossing the border illegally in the first place. Places like California and Arizona have major problems with illegal immigration and it needs to stop. It has nothing to do with race. It has to do with tax money and overcrowding. We cant ake this **** anymore over here man.

Sometimes you just gotta do what ya' gotta do.

I don't blame the folks living on the border, they shouldn't have to do the border patrols' job for them. I understand the border patrol is sadly lacking in personel, and for that reason alone I am sure they can use all the help they can get.

The number of illegal immigrants coming in daily is staggering, and it's not just Mexico that is a problem, the Canadian border is wide open as well.
Yeah, If they were sneaking into my backyard, i'd be picking them off as west. But seriously, it must get annoying for them to have to deal with the immigrants coming illegally into their neighborhoods each day, the border patrol should be doing a lot better job

You forgetting that if your Mexican you shouldnt be crossing the border illegally in the first place. Places like California and Arizona have major problems with illegal immigration and it needs to stop. It has nothing to do with race. It has to do with tax money and overcrowding. We cant ake this **** anymore over here man.

Do you honestly think that illegal inmigrants are taking your tax Money and hindering the economy?

Because that is far far from the truth. Now that i've been involved with real estate more than ever do I see the incredible service they do to this country. There are plenty of cities/towns who havent grown in years, development is poor, land is in surplus but houses havent been built there in a decade. The town is basically dead with little to no production of anything. Immigrants come in and the CIty/Town production increases incredibly, housing demand grows, people start to flock in because of increased jobs and development of the town that these illegal immigrants have helped create. Suddenly the town is alive and growing.

I have watched the O'Reily factor where anytime the immigrant talk appears O'reily nearly puts on the white hood. His guests are selected accordingly as usually hell have a worker for the SSA and some lady he picked off the street. Anyway... when you put all the facts together,

Illegals use about 2 billion dollars in tax money for services and such (schools for their children and little things liek that) yes that sounds like a lot but considering they contribute an estimated 50+ BILLION dollars back into SSN and tax that seems like more than a good trade dont you think? Money they will never be able to touch. Unlike the rest of the citizens. Some financial analysts who havent been blinded by the anti-immigrant propaganda argue that social security would have probably already crashed if it wasnt for them.

The only real problem with illegals in california and Arizona that you and others dont like it. Thats it.

New Mexico was dead for years, Governor Bill Richardson probably the only governor ever to embrace instead of reject immigration immidiately put into effect license law that illegal immigrants could use. The persecution of illegals in that state dropped to nearly none. What has been the outcome? New Mexico has been growing at an astonishingly fast pace ever since.

Sorry Ultimate, but illegal immagrants don't pay Federal Taxes or Social Security, they don't have a SSN in the first place, because they aren't a citizen of the U.S. most work for "cash under the table" - however, they do have to pay sales tax on goods purchased in the U.S. just like everyone else who goes to the store. I will say this though, illegal immagrants take low paying jobs that U.S. citizens don't want - like picking fruit, beans, etc. and of course manual labor jobs at construction sites...

Im not sure if the numbers you state are coorect or not. I would like to know where you got them.

You are not taking into account the illegals that work under the table and dont pay SS tax. You also arent taking into account all the money that Mexicans come over here to make, then send down to Mexico. Money sent from people in the Us to their families in Mexico is the #2 gross natioal product under oil. Think about how much money they are taking out of the American economy.
Also think about all the Americans wages they undercut when they take these jobs in the US. Of course a crooked employer would rather hire the illegal for $4 to do the job than pay an American a living wage to do the same job. Thats not fair for Americans. We have a certain quality of life here that we would like to keep. I dont think anyone should have to work for such low wages but its not fair to the American worker to have people coming over illegally from another country and undercutting the wages of the citizens.

How are the nieghborhoods of the cities and town that you speak of that have been populated by illegal immagrants? Around here they look like slums and are an eyesore to the rest of the city.
There also doesnt seem to be much effort into learning english by many illegal immigrants and their families that the start here. IMO that sets them up for failure and puts us on a track to have a society that cannot communicate with eachother.

In addition to taxpayers fitting the bill for illegal immigrants education, in LA city schools %75 of the kids get their lunches paid for by the taxpayer as well. The problem is that we have an influx of poor people and we need to pay for all their services. Its just not fair for America.

Look athe freeways in LA. Dont you think that there is a little bit of an overcrowding issue??

Those are just a couple of the issues I have with illegal immigration. I doubt you and I will agree on this, but I think its wrong and needs to be stopped. I have no problem with legal immigration.

Sorry Ultimate, but illegal immagrants don't pay Federal Taxes or Social Security, they don't have a SSN in the first place, because they aren't a citizen of the U.S. most work for "cash under the table" - however, they do have to pay sales tax on goods purchased in the U.S. just like everyone else who goes to the store. I will say this though, illegal immagrants take low paying jobs that U.S. citizens don't want - like picking fruit, beans, etc. and of course manual labor jobs at construction sites...

Of course they dont have a SSN. However they make a fake one up so they can get the job and thus money is deducted from their pay sent off to the gov. Employees then get a letter saying their SSN is not valid and thus forfeit any benefits from it however they keep the money. Believe it or most illegal immigrants work with a fake SSN. Many times an ITIN will be used to report taxes. As a matter of fact you probably wouldnt be able to tell the difference of an illegal immigrant from a citizen working at Mcdonalds, walmart, etc etc. Not all work on the fields and even now at least here in california to work in the field u gotta have a SSn so the government can collect its check.

Of course they dont have a SSN. However they make a fake one up so they can get the job and thus money is deducted from their pay sent off to the gov. Employees then get a letter saying their SSN is not valid and thus forfeit any benefits from it however they keep the money. Believe it or most illegal immigrants work with a fake SSN. Many times an ITIN will be used to report taxes. As a matter of fact you probably wouldnt be able to tell the difference of an illegal immigrant from a citizen working at Mcdonalds, walmart, etc etc. Not all work on the fields and even now at least here in california to work in the field u gotta have a SSn so the government can collect its check.

And that person who SSN they stole will end up being responsible for paying federal income tax on the wages the illegal earned using their number. Another benefit of illegal immigration!!

Im not sure if the numbers you state are coorect or not. I would like to know where you got them.

You are not taking into account the illegals that work under the table and dont pay SS tax. You also arent taking into account all the money that Mexicans come over here to make, then send down to Mexico. Money sent from people in the Us to their families in Mexico is the #2 gross natioal product under oil. Think about how much money they are taking out of the American economy.
Also think about all the Americans wages they undercut when they take these jobs in the US. Of course a crooked employer would rather hire the illegal for $4 to do the job than pay an American a living wage to do the same job. Thats not fair for Americans. We have a certain quality of life here that we would like to keep. I dont think anyone should have to work for such low wages but its not fair to the American worker to have people coming over illegally from another country and undercutting the wages of the citizens.

How are the nieghborhoods of the cities and town that you speak of that have been populated by illegal immagrants? Around here they look like slums and are an eyesore to the rest of the city.
There also doesnt seem to be much effort into learning english by many illegal immigrants and their families that the start here. IMO that sets them up for failure and puts us on a track to have a society that cannot communicate with eachother.

In addition to taxpayers fitting the bill for illegal immigrants education, in LA city schools %75 of the kids get their lunches paid for by the taxpayer as well. The problem is that we have an influx of poor people and we need to pay for all their services. Its just not fair for America.

Look athe freeways in LA. Dont you think that there is a little bit of an overcrowding issue??

Those are just a couple of the issues I have with illegal immigration. I doubt you and I will agree on this, but I think its wrong and needs to be stopped. I have no problem with legal immigration.

I got them from the Fox News, CNN, Fox over many years little things like this come up. The town growing etc etc can be easily seen here in Central california.


I tell you what they look like.. Bakersfield, Arvin, Fresno, Madera, Redwood City. I've been to all of them and lived in some. Like any city there are slums the good and the bad. But there is plenty more good thanks to them.

Bakersfield is a prime example of that, thanks to its rapid development big companies now have moved out here some are contemplating it and the value of housing has skyrocketed. The quality of life is also very good here.

I was raised in California, I am not buying into the illegal immagrants do more good than harm theory you have, sorry, nothing personal but I have to agree with Explosives on this one...

And that person who SSN they stole will end up being responsible for paying federal income tax on the wages the illegal earned using their number. Another benefit of illegal immigration!!

Both Federal and State tax is deducted from paychecks here in California. And like i said they didnt steal anyones they made one up. And not everyone does as ITIN is rapidly being accepted and used by employers.

I was raised in California, I am not buying into the illegal immagrants do more good than harm theory you have, sorry, nothing personal but I have to agree with Explosives on this one...

Maybe its time for you to come back and see for yourself particularly if you lived in a city or town that i've mentioned. The change has been astronomical. And i was raised and still live here.

Also do you think this to be the biggest coincidence in he world: ?

The U.S. Richest states have the highest illegal population and the fastest economically growing states have been getting more illegal immigrants.

Both Federal and State tax is deducted from paychecks here in California. And like i said they didnt steal anyones they made one up. And not everyone does as ITIN is rapidly being accepted and used by employers.

Not all of them. I said that because I recently heard a story about a lady that was in to the government for a few grand because her SSN was stolen by an illegal who was woring but not paying taxes.

Also, since illegals have phoney numbers, dont you think they would claim like 9 on their W2 so they wont have money withheld? They didnt respect the law when they came here so why would we think they would respect the law when filling out a tax form.

:sombrero:

Not all of them. I said that because I recently heard a story about a lady that was in to the government for a few grand because her SSN was stolen by an illegal who was woring but not paying taxes.

Also, since illegals have phoney numbers, dont you think they would claim like 9 on their W2 so they wont have money withheld? They didnt respect the law when they came here so why would we think they would respect the law when filling out a tax form.

:sombrero:

LOL you think all of them are tax geniouses when they get here or something? Most Citizens dont know how to fill out the form much less an illegal immigrant.

In california Federal and state is required to be deducted out of the paycheck at least thats what they told me at the last two jobs i took. And thats how much they took also.

As for that lady owing the government how do you know thats what happened just cus she said? Not to mention the fact that she wont actually have to pay that. As all she will have to do is report a stolen ssn and the irs will forfeit the part of the bill thats not hers.

Yes they take money out of your check but the amount they take depends on the amount of dependants you put on your check. You can claim 9 dependants when you dont have any kids if you want. You only have to pay the money back at the end of the year if you file taxes which these people arent doing.

The lady whos number was taken did get the charges taken off her name after 2 years. It took a lot of time out of her life and was a major hassell. Why should anyone have to do that?? They know it was an illegal because the number was traced to a Tyson Chicken plant. As we know, Tyson has been involved in illegal hiring investigations.

My mom's stepdad is in a militia. They meet at the lodge and clean their guns and talk about fighting a revolution if the Democrats come to take their guns away or if Mexicans come to take their jobs.